Very striking that these are two teachers who are leaving not because teaching was wrong for them, but almost because they were too good at what they did, and cared so much that they couldn't tolerate the injustices. Maybe the related debate should be on how schools have to change to keep and elevate the Lailas and Justins.
@cluzniКүн бұрын
Great question. It seems we lose some of our best teachers because there's just no way (or nowhere?) for them to keep growing.
@JohnGoldenКүн бұрын
Related: my son, 2nd year teacher, just switched schools/districts. Are there reasons that make this more or less of a good idea?
@podometic20 күн бұрын
Sunil is wrong. There is no precision in elementary math education. The core definitions and basic algorithms are often wrong. The rules and laws kids are made to memorise are typically workarounds and bug fixes. Math education in the West today, rather than stimulate curiosity, is more akin to child abuse. Math anxiety and fear is the fault of curriculum designers too scared to be seen as heretics in the church of math. So yes, K-8 level math education is dead! Why? The ideas passed off as logical explanations of relationships between quantities are long obsolete. Science progressed greatly since the 16th century. However, basic math remained both untouched and putridly stagnant. So it's no surprise that the same kids who love science class will often hate math class, despite maths being the language of science!
@JohnGolden21 күн бұрын
love the idea for this sub-series!
@JohnGoldenАй бұрын
I found myself sympathizing with the 4 day side more during the debate. Always hesitant about overapplying research. Love that the discussion revolved around kids and community, which is rarely the case when ed questions are debated by non-teachers.
@JohnGolden2 ай бұрын
Amazing episode. 4 great debaters. What is success? Score on a test at the end of the week? Retention in a month or a year? What do we want them to retain? If math is not answer getting, but problem solving, reasoning, communicating, representing, and connecting, then what does 'explicit instruction' look like? Somebody telling you how to bake bread does not cause you to be a baker, trying to bake, having failures, making variations is what makes you a baker. But what really gets my goat, is how science of math seems to assume the majority of kids are experiencing inquiry. It's just not happening in most schools. Teaching is cultural, and we have a long history of lecture and test. Explicit instruction and practice is what has got us into this mess!
@JohnGolden2 ай бұрын
Also we have all been talking about research about math learning for 100 years! Science of math did not start this, they just ignored it!
@zavoralmusicstudios32242 ай бұрын
In support of science of math..."its almost impossible to separate the conceptual and procedural parts of math" ... I agree. But from my perspective, the science of math focuses on separating them. 🤷
@zavoralmusicstudios32242 ай бұрын
The debaters for science of math say in this debate that the basics of math must be understood before students can do inquiry. But then they also say there has to be a combination of conceptual and procedural learning. Those statements seem to contradict each other.
@veliciaeverett78934 ай бұрын
Great debate!
@Sebastian-qq9tt10 ай бұрын
💯 "promo sm"
@wilsonfarrell4774 Жыл бұрын
"Promo SM"
@karenbloom5628 Жыл бұрын
I loved this podcast and am showing this to my Math Lab class of 7th and 8th graders after they had their own trapezoid debate today.
@debatemathpodcast4564 Жыл бұрын
Wonderful! How did it go?
@josephbittner7177 Жыл бұрын
There is a very well known university in my state that requires nursing students to take Calculus. Then they have an admission to their nursing program and Calculus usually determines the outcome. Is Calculus really needed for a nursing profession?
@josephbittner7177 Жыл бұрын
45:00 I was thinking the same thing through this debate. Both sides want to get rid of I do, We do, You do model. It's just that they want to add mathematics discourse that is the purpose of teaching mathematics. The left debate group wants to have complete math conversation. The right debate group will accept the model, but other teaching methods must be included.
@janeaini93532 жыл бұрын
I almost didn’t watch this! Thinking, what could possibly be the debate on what, in my mind is just another “band wagon strategy with a clever name” that admin would like to see in the classroom. It IS so much more! I could go on about how I HEARD all of y’all’s pts of view. Yep! You agree more than not. And, Dr. Child’s, I paused at one moment to scoot over to Amazon to purchase The Crest of the Peacock.🥰 I believe it was Sunil Singh who recommended it in the past. Thank you each and every one of you. ♥️🧮♾
Пікірлер
Very striking that these are two teachers who are leaving not because teaching was wrong for them, but almost because they were too good at what they did, and cared so much that they couldn't tolerate the injustices. Maybe the related debate should be on how schools have to change to keep and elevate the Lailas and Justins.
Great question. It seems we lose some of our best teachers because there's just no way (or nowhere?) for them to keep growing.
Related: my son, 2nd year teacher, just switched schools/districts. Are there reasons that make this more or less of a good idea?
Sunil is wrong. There is no precision in elementary math education. The core definitions and basic algorithms are often wrong. The rules and laws kids are made to memorise are typically workarounds and bug fixes. Math education in the West today, rather than stimulate curiosity, is more akin to child abuse. Math anxiety and fear is the fault of curriculum designers too scared to be seen as heretics in the church of math. So yes, K-8 level math education is dead! Why? The ideas passed off as logical explanations of relationships between quantities are long obsolete. Science progressed greatly since the 16th century. However, basic math remained both untouched and putridly stagnant. So it's no surprise that the same kids who love science class will often hate math class, despite maths being the language of science!
love the idea for this sub-series!
I found myself sympathizing with the 4 day side more during the debate. Always hesitant about overapplying research. Love that the discussion revolved around kids and community, which is rarely the case when ed questions are debated by non-teachers.
Amazing episode. 4 great debaters. What is success? Score on a test at the end of the week? Retention in a month or a year? What do we want them to retain? If math is not answer getting, but problem solving, reasoning, communicating, representing, and connecting, then what does 'explicit instruction' look like? Somebody telling you how to bake bread does not cause you to be a baker, trying to bake, having failures, making variations is what makes you a baker. But what really gets my goat, is how science of math seems to assume the majority of kids are experiencing inquiry. It's just not happening in most schools. Teaching is cultural, and we have a long history of lecture and test. Explicit instruction and practice is what has got us into this mess!
Also we have all been talking about research about math learning for 100 years! Science of math did not start this, they just ignored it!
In support of science of math..."its almost impossible to separate the conceptual and procedural parts of math" ... I agree. But from my perspective, the science of math focuses on separating them. 🤷
The debaters for science of math say in this debate that the basics of math must be understood before students can do inquiry. But then they also say there has to be a combination of conceptual and procedural learning. Those statements seem to contradict each other.
Great debate!
💯 "promo sm"
"Promo SM"
I loved this podcast and am showing this to my Math Lab class of 7th and 8th graders after they had their own trapezoid debate today.
Wonderful! How did it go?
There is a very well known university in my state that requires nursing students to take Calculus. Then they have an admission to their nursing program and Calculus usually determines the outcome. Is Calculus really needed for a nursing profession?
45:00 I was thinking the same thing through this debate. Both sides want to get rid of I do, We do, You do model. It's just that they want to add mathematics discourse that is the purpose of teaching mathematics. The left debate group wants to have complete math conversation. The right debate group will accept the model, but other teaching methods must be included.
I almost didn’t watch this! Thinking, what could possibly be the debate on what, in my mind is just another “band wagon strategy with a clever name” that admin would like to see in the classroom. It IS so much more! I could go on about how I HEARD all of y’all’s pts of view. Yep! You agree more than not. And, Dr. Child’s, I paused at one moment to scoot over to Amazon to purchase The Crest of the Peacock.🥰 I believe it was Sunil Singh who recommended it in the past. Thank you each and every one of you. ♥️🧮♾