A channel about everything fighting games! I've been a fighting game enthusiast my whole life and I wanted to take the time and effort to spread the love and try to build up the fighting game community.
abstractly, there are only 3 class,,,,,,hit points, speed points, buff/nerf points,,,,,, there are the only true abilities, i designed a little game around it
@dreamerwav69819 сағат бұрын
obvioulsy the issue is more along the lines of "how broad do we make these categories?" does support only count healing and shielding, or debuffs and buffs? a lot of bideos like this dont like to mention league of legends for some reason, but league supports =/= overwatch supports, but theyre all still called support; different games count support in different ways. so is it a subclass of a damage support versus a healing/shielding support? pyke in league is a straight on assassin, but he has 2 cc abilities which = support in league, though he'd be a dps in overwatch. so healing/shielding to protect the tank isnt integral to support in all or even most team games, like in overwatch or valorant. in fact in league healing a tank is basically useless half the time in the late game bc you cant heal that much to make much of a difference; or you cant heal at all because youre playing pyke or nautilus or braum or any other number of non healing and even non shielding supports. so what IS a support? are they a controller who heavily debuffs the enemy team or works in less solid ways to help their team (making space, creaitng openings, engaging fights, but not really lowering the enemies health or changing objective numbered stats)? or are they a defender whos meant to keep their team alive and stopping their health from going down in the first place? or are they a healer thats meant to replace health thats already gone? I really do think a big issue with the 3 to 4 class idea is that youre counting the roles as too broad, especially support. if you take everythign i just said and say "yeah those are all supports" but then go "dps/adc/duelest/damage/warrior/mage characters only have to do damage to be in the offense role" then it seems a bit like a double standard. tldr: support is being counted as too many things and could easily make a whole other class that doesnt count as a subclass but is still called support. im very open to discussion so please anyone reading this tell me your thoughts in the replies! ps: to talk about the recon class he mentioned - league of legends has the support do all the vision on the team. very normal to see less than 20 vision score for the entire team and then 80 from the support lol. additionally quinn with her e, ashe with her hawkshot, etc. would be great if he talked about league in this video bc i feel it would help him understand his own question and how it relates to gaming better, or at least give him more information. unfortuantely overwatch players hate league. they also hate their own game. very strange i wouldnt know anything about that
@Lordmewtwo15120 сағат бұрын
Some of your points on Defense seem to bleed into support. Also, wouldn't recon bleed into a subcategory of support for the same reason as movement?
@michaelbowman668421 сағат бұрын
Support should be split into "Healer" and "Support" for what I feel are very obvious reasons. "Healers" restore damage taken, they don't spread buffs and debuffs, it's _in the name._ "Support" _supports_ their team in a way that is _not_ dealing, taking, or healing damage. They can debuff the enemy to deal less damage, take more damage, and heal for less, they can buff their allies to take less damage, deal more damage, and heal for more, but the important part is that only _they_ can do it, no one else. They _can't_ deal a lot of damage themselves, they _can't_ tank damage very well either, and they _can't_ heal _at all._ They are the primary buffer and debuffer, that's their job. You could expand that further to things like "they slow people, they stun people, they remove crowd control effects from their allies" and so on and so forth, but they can't do any of the things the other roles can do by themselves. Classes are more so their restrictions than their capabilities. "What can they _not_ do?" is the question that needs to be asked. The more restrictive the system is, the more classes you can have. If a class can only do one thing, and there are a dozen different things to do, then you can have a dozen classes, whether or not that would be a good example of the system is dependent on the objectives of the person designing how the game is played.
@jadencarpenter434923 сағат бұрын
hypothetically i think it would have to do something with speech and dialogue if not attack defense or suppor.
@Overlord_skullzКүн бұрын
What would a necromancer fall under
@GoldKitsuneBronyКүн бұрын
'Utility' is what came to my mind. I guess a mix of Movement and Recon? The theif with can lock-pick any door and pickpocket anyone. The Nobal with the money and connections to get the party geared up. The wise old man who knows the history of the land and a plethora of specific, niche spells. Table top games can often necessitate at least 1 'Utility' character but it can work in MMOs or other games. The HM slave in Pokemon for example, is a Utility Class.
@ironwoxКүн бұрын
Tank, healer, dps, utility(support). Tank = soak damage, initiate fights. Dps = deal damage + Kill enemies. Healer = undo mistakes teammates have and make sure tank survive longer. Support = create opportunities to support teammates.
@sesshonuyashaКүн бұрын
DotA laughing creating class #4 Universal !
@xandroniusКүн бұрын
Yo-Yo class like terraria
@DonforthDHCКүн бұрын
Did this mf just predict ult skills in GBFV Rising?
@TheBigMaxYTКүн бұрын
So just Battlefield’s classes then?
@tomato-sn1cxКүн бұрын
Isn’t the 4th role point?
@derrickmiles5240Күн бұрын
Support is anything that assists attack and defense. So it's hard to think of something that truly falls outside the trio. I can think of one thing. Someone that's not there to support you, but to force your compliance in case you decide to desert the battle. Russia was a fan of this unit type. Now working that into a game... it would be hard. But I can see a team extraction shooter where the team leaders don't get payed if the team extracts too early.
@NiikemiКүн бұрын
I can't help but feel like the problem is not really about a fourth "class" existing, but the fact that "support" is too broad of a term to use. If support is a class that is defined as someone that provides something to help the team, wouldn't "recon" also include it? Here's my 2 cents: we keep a separate class for healers, so we'd have Tanks, Dmg dealers, Healers and Utilities/specialists. The one wild card I'm thinking right now is non-self-buff based classes that happens to also have light healing abilities. I might need a hand thinking through this one 😅
@trangthule9029Күн бұрын
what about a class that debuffs and sabotages the enemy?
@brandonmuse5532Күн бұрын
Thanks. Gill is awesome
@nomynameisLarryКүн бұрын
streets need the sequels to this video
@DatamaskarlКүн бұрын
.... Lord of the Rings online. Tank, Dps, healer, and "yellow" aka CC, power gains, debuffs, niche abilities to alter entire mechanics. Just another reason why it's the best "classic mmo" on the market.
@s.e.n3264Күн бұрын
Get rid of staples like party chat and mini maps, and let that class be solely responsible for it. Also blocking the opposing teams chat and map. Give it even less damage than support classes have. Make the team dependent on it. Maybe also being able to not only block chat and maps, but hijack them. And get the enemy to work with you in defeating themselves. Like being able to hack their chat and pretend to be their ally, like in real wars. Or..... this one might be a bit too much. Hack their HUD and enable friendly fire so they can target and kill their own allies. The hacked HUD makes them think it's their team getting points, but it's actually the opposing team
@user-px4dw9vi9rКүн бұрын
answer before watching the video yes for example a disruptor or trickster (kinda a subclass or mix of support / all) for example the spy of tf2 while classified as support its goal is to disrupt the enemy team able to break down defense and trick the enemy's
@user-tc4zw4fw1dКүн бұрын
actualy dnd uses 4 types of core character classes which are spellcaster, tank, support, and maele types but some classes over lap like a cleric can be a spell caster but also a support character
@Krispy_ChickenNugs2 күн бұрын
Agility is the 4th class Boom🔥
@user-kw8nr5mt7v2 күн бұрын
cookie run kingdom has types like: ambush: Mainly focuses on dealing damage to enemies at the midline or rearline, while dodging damage with their skills bomber: Effectively deals large amounts of damage to enemies that are grouped up together charge: Absorbs most damage taken for the team while doing great damage to enemies defense: Absorbs most damage taken for the team, while also providing buffs for allies or taunting enemies healing: Completely focuses on restoring allies' HP magic: Typically focuses on dealing damage and debuffing the enemy ranks, or buffing allies range: Usually deals single-target or AoE damage while staying at a safe-enough distance from the enemy support: Brings unique utilities to teams with their skills, such as healing, summoning, or giving special buffs and/or debuffs and each type has its own spread of stats. for example a charge cookie has high hp but not as much as tanks, but also has good attack but not as much as the dps types. dps's are more squishy than defenses.
@Leafeater092 күн бұрын
Assassin, yeah some people may say “that’s just dps” but sneaking behind enemy lines and picking off weak opponents is a whole lot different then staying behind tanks and dealing damage
@gambaru552 күн бұрын
nah assasins is the best role to have for forth support. like enigma on dota 2 have disruptif presence(tank), damage(carry), crowd control(support). yet when he has no ult, he lost all of that its like and potion, item or spell in rpg where some dealing damage, reduce damage/debuff enemy, heal/other utility but only 1 use. full fill every role needed yet can be really useless if they cant do what they want to do. jack of all trade kinda role.
@capybara852 күн бұрын
I feel like paladins does it well woth the flank class
@stasglazkov87342 күн бұрын
But usually there totally is a 4th type character class. The "Walking Liability". Nah, but seriously, there are probably only those 3 classes, because given enough will, every character action can be viewed as one of those 3 action archetypes. There is just no action thinkable that would fall outside of those 3 categories.
@Cranes_Friendly_Fire2 күн бұрын
The phighting music goes so crazy
@theultimatevrnerd86032 күн бұрын
Recon is just support
@AnimeLover-vm9kv2 күн бұрын
There's the ones that attacks, defends and supports and there's the leader the one that leads.
@jdal212 күн бұрын
DCUO had a ConTROLLer role where players supply mana, which is just a healer for a different counter, sadly the game is kinda dead for a few years now
@mattiaskockum48312 күн бұрын
The frendly heavy is definitly your 4th class : doesn't deal damage, doesn't tank damage, kinda support the enemy team... Truly some game changing gameplay mechanics
@IzzyMR20242 күн бұрын
Simple wildcard
@Azrael1782 күн бұрын
I don't think 4th core pillar is possible tbh. That's because the triangle represents all the major ways one can interact with hp, the core mechanic all combat games are based on. Losing hp, reducing enemy hp, and manipulating hp loss. As long as games are based around hp as a core resource 3 pillars will remain, with only some variation in how they are implemented and maybe a lesser occasional part of forth role in specific kinds of games (like you mentioned with movement and information). But not all games are based around hp, and if you change how players can interact with core resource, or the core resource itself, the trifecta falls apart and will naturally be replaced by a more fitting separation.
@somerandomgamer1162 күн бұрын
in overwatch, lucio is the multiclass
@longwingdetrain31832 күн бұрын
Hmmmm. Assault(offense) Engineer(Defense) Support(support) Recon(Recon) Sounds like DICE had this figured out in BF4.
@SergioPSC3 күн бұрын
Everyone knows the true fourth class is summoner
@Nemer3333 күн бұрын
Really really thx for this video, i never play guity gears... and not buy this game yet, but with your video i'm excited to play. I'll buy it when there's a promotion... I'm a Br and this game here it's expansive... Anyway, thx so much for this video.
@berndlauert81793 күн бұрын
of course you could have a fourth class logistics
@Briggetyt3 күн бұрын
there's functionally 2 definitions of support, the one in this video, and the much more broad "ally on ally" defining dps as ally on enemy and tank on enemy on ally, which removes all other possibility's of interaction since you cant make a character designed around enemy on enemy interaction
@thunder_wolf233 күн бұрын
Battlefront II has this. Their four trooper classes are Assault (Offense), Heavy (Defense), Officer (Support), and Specialist. The specialist has a sniper rifle and their core ability is Infiltration, which gives them a powerful medium-range burst-fire rifle and renders them invisible to enemy scanners. Another comment said this already, but the fourth class is essentially Hinderance (to the enemy). The Specialist's job in Battlefront II is effectively to be as annoying as possible, either by sniping you from out of effective range, or by appearing out of nowhere in a siege-breaking maneuver.
@irobot75653 күн бұрын
In Splatoon we do have four roles, even when it's fast-paced. When there's all four players alive on a team, we have a slayer (offense), skirmisher (forces fights and acts as a decoy), a support (paints and farms ult to buff other players) and an anchor (zones out the enemy and holds ground, acting as defense). The idea is your anchor secures the space your team already has, the skirmisher forces them to not play the objective, the slayer takes them out quickly and reliably, and the support provides any extra benefits the composition might need (there's no healing in Splatoon), and then you have more ground your anchor needs to secure so the process repeats. Only thing we sometimes switch roles depending on the circumstances, as the anchor is always needed for the whole thing to work, so a support might switch to anchor if that happens. I also think roles don't necessarily need to be designed by the developers, roles might instead emerge from different playstyles and in response to the current meta of a game, making them more natural.
@HuonPiper-ir4yj3 күн бұрын
Pick, maybe? It is sorta like DPS, but those are all about killing as quick as possible, while pick is more so about eliminating important targets to weaken the enemy defense/offense. I will admit, it is a fair bit similar to a multiclass between DPS and support, but eh.
@nikolajthepig3 күн бұрын
Nooooo plz dont. Everything is already confusing enough. Sure theres support, defense and offense but little jimmy from another country first fogured out the meaning at 12 years old. And then theres even more depending on what game your playing. Pokemon forexample. All those new words and attack systems can be all so confusing if you arent dedicated enough to actually learn them. And then we begin talking about a 4th one!? Oh dear. I hope thats not going to actually be talked about and put into games. Anyways im yapping again.
@NoraNoita4 күн бұрын
I'll just stop right here at 2min 30, just to say, that what you just listed so far, the first offense, I have nothing really too say too much about (outside of saying that naming Warrior and FF14 it fills all three roles perfectly on its own...), defense however, tanks I have nothing against, fits, engineer also kinda fits, but Kapcan, and trap based characters, they are support types, a non-healing type of support, but still support, this is why there is already a 4th type of class, the non-healer/shielder type support, trappers, most often referred to. It's just that most of the time, that sort of thing is split to different jobs as a single button across everyone in a team, it's the most easy to just split up and shift to other classes, if you were to remove these buttons from other classes you could just make a new role, but in FF14 the reason ti's only 3 roles, is already because of queue times. and trying to form a party of what you need, gets infinitely more complicated the more diverse your roles are, look at games that they to have no or a more open role archetype system, there's way too easy of a Meta being formed excluding lesser performing classes, also in Tf2, it's not about roles per say, it's about picking a counter to the situation you're faced with, that's why you're allowed to swap on the fly. This topic is not really a topic applicable to all games, it's just something that is a case by case basis if it can be implement into a game, or if tradition outweighs exclusion.
@SuperNova-so2cj4 күн бұрын
medic, engineer, support and recon work in battlebit remastered with support getting to insta built fortifications
@PanagiotisPolitis-bl9xj4 күн бұрын
"his anti-air damage is bar none the highest in the game", tengu
Пікірлер
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abstractly, there are only 3 class,,,,,,hit points, speed points, buff/nerf points,,,,,, there are the only true abilities, i designed a little game around it
obvioulsy the issue is more along the lines of "how broad do we make these categories?" does support only count healing and shielding, or debuffs and buffs? a lot of bideos like this dont like to mention league of legends for some reason, but league supports =/= overwatch supports, but theyre all still called support; different games count support in different ways. so is it a subclass of a damage support versus a healing/shielding support? pyke in league is a straight on assassin, but he has 2 cc abilities which = support in league, though he'd be a dps in overwatch. so healing/shielding to protect the tank isnt integral to support in all or even most team games, like in overwatch or valorant. in fact in league healing a tank is basically useless half the time in the late game bc you cant heal that much to make much of a difference; or you cant heal at all because youre playing pyke or nautilus or braum or any other number of non healing and even non shielding supports. so what IS a support? are they a controller who heavily debuffs the enemy team or works in less solid ways to help their team (making space, creaitng openings, engaging fights, but not really lowering the enemies health or changing objective numbered stats)? or are they a defender whos meant to keep their team alive and stopping their health from going down in the first place? or are they a healer thats meant to replace health thats already gone? I really do think a big issue with the 3 to 4 class idea is that youre counting the roles as too broad, especially support. if you take everythign i just said and say "yeah those are all supports" but then go "dps/adc/duelest/damage/warrior/mage characters only have to do damage to be in the offense role" then it seems a bit like a double standard. tldr: support is being counted as too many things and could easily make a whole other class that doesnt count as a subclass but is still called support. im very open to discussion so please anyone reading this tell me your thoughts in the replies! ps: to talk about the recon class he mentioned - league of legends has the support do all the vision on the team. very normal to see less than 20 vision score for the entire team and then 80 from the support lol. additionally quinn with her e, ashe with her hawkshot, etc. would be great if he talked about league in this video bc i feel it would help him understand his own question and how it relates to gaming better, or at least give him more information. unfortuantely overwatch players hate league. they also hate their own game. very strange i wouldnt know anything about that
Some of your points on Defense seem to bleed into support. Also, wouldn't recon bleed into a subcategory of support for the same reason as movement?
Support should be split into "Healer" and "Support" for what I feel are very obvious reasons. "Healers" restore damage taken, they don't spread buffs and debuffs, it's _in the name._ "Support" _supports_ their team in a way that is _not_ dealing, taking, or healing damage. They can debuff the enemy to deal less damage, take more damage, and heal for less, they can buff their allies to take less damage, deal more damage, and heal for more, but the important part is that only _they_ can do it, no one else. They _can't_ deal a lot of damage themselves, they _can't_ tank damage very well either, and they _can't_ heal _at all._ They are the primary buffer and debuffer, that's their job. You could expand that further to things like "they slow people, they stun people, they remove crowd control effects from their allies" and so on and so forth, but they can't do any of the things the other roles can do by themselves. Classes are more so their restrictions than their capabilities. "What can they _not_ do?" is the question that needs to be asked. The more restrictive the system is, the more classes you can have. If a class can only do one thing, and there are a dozen different things to do, then you can have a dozen classes, whether or not that would be a good example of the system is dependent on the objectives of the person designing how the game is played.
hypothetically i think it would have to do something with speech and dialogue if not attack defense or suppor.
What would a necromancer fall under
'Utility' is what came to my mind. I guess a mix of Movement and Recon? The theif with can lock-pick any door and pickpocket anyone. The Nobal with the money and connections to get the party geared up. The wise old man who knows the history of the land and a plethora of specific, niche spells. Table top games can often necessitate at least 1 'Utility' character but it can work in MMOs or other games. The HM slave in Pokemon for example, is a Utility Class.
Tank, healer, dps, utility(support). Tank = soak damage, initiate fights. Dps = deal damage + Kill enemies. Healer = undo mistakes teammates have and make sure tank survive longer. Support = create opportunities to support teammates.
DotA laughing creating class #4 Universal !
Yo-Yo class like terraria
Did this mf just predict ult skills in GBFV Rising?
So just Battlefield’s classes then?
Isn’t the 4th role point?
Support is anything that assists attack and defense. So it's hard to think of something that truly falls outside the trio. I can think of one thing. Someone that's not there to support you, but to force your compliance in case you decide to desert the battle. Russia was a fan of this unit type. Now working that into a game... it would be hard. But I can see a team extraction shooter where the team leaders don't get payed if the team extracts too early.
I can't help but feel like the problem is not really about a fourth "class" existing, but the fact that "support" is too broad of a term to use. If support is a class that is defined as someone that provides something to help the team, wouldn't "recon" also include it? Here's my 2 cents: we keep a separate class for healers, so we'd have Tanks, Dmg dealers, Healers and Utilities/specialists. The one wild card I'm thinking right now is non-self-buff based classes that happens to also have light healing abilities. I might need a hand thinking through this one 😅
what about a class that debuffs and sabotages the enemy?
Thanks. Gill is awesome
streets need the sequels to this video
.... Lord of the Rings online. Tank, Dps, healer, and "yellow" aka CC, power gains, debuffs, niche abilities to alter entire mechanics. Just another reason why it's the best "classic mmo" on the market.
Get rid of staples like party chat and mini maps, and let that class be solely responsible for it. Also blocking the opposing teams chat and map. Give it even less damage than support classes have. Make the team dependent on it. Maybe also being able to not only block chat and maps, but hijack them. And get the enemy to work with you in defeating themselves. Like being able to hack their chat and pretend to be their ally, like in real wars. Or..... this one might be a bit too much. Hack their HUD and enable friendly fire so they can target and kill their own allies. The hacked HUD makes them think it's their team getting points, but it's actually the opposing team
answer before watching the video yes for example a disruptor or trickster (kinda a subclass or mix of support / all) for example the spy of tf2 while classified as support its goal is to disrupt the enemy team able to break down defense and trick the enemy's
actualy dnd uses 4 types of core character classes which are spellcaster, tank, support, and maele types but some classes over lap like a cleric can be a spell caster but also a support character
Agility is the 4th class Boom🔥
cookie run kingdom has types like: ambush: Mainly focuses on dealing damage to enemies at the midline or rearline, while dodging damage with their skills bomber: Effectively deals large amounts of damage to enemies that are grouped up together charge: Absorbs most damage taken for the team while doing great damage to enemies defense: Absorbs most damage taken for the team, while also providing buffs for allies or taunting enemies healing: Completely focuses on restoring allies' HP magic: Typically focuses on dealing damage and debuffing the enemy ranks, or buffing allies range: Usually deals single-target or AoE damage while staying at a safe-enough distance from the enemy support: Brings unique utilities to teams with their skills, such as healing, summoning, or giving special buffs and/or debuffs and each type has its own spread of stats. for example a charge cookie has high hp but not as much as tanks, but also has good attack but not as much as the dps types. dps's are more squishy than defenses.
Assassin, yeah some people may say “that’s just dps” but sneaking behind enemy lines and picking off weak opponents is a whole lot different then staying behind tanks and dealing damage
nah assasins is the best role to have for forth support. like enigma on dota 2 have disruptif presence(tank), damage(carry), crowd control(support). yet when he has no ult, he lost all of that its like and potion, item or spell in rpg where some dealing damage, reduce damage/debuff enemy, heal/other utility but only 1 use. full fill every role needed yet can be really useless if they cant do what they want to do. jack of all trade kinda role.
I feel like paladins does it well woth the flank class
But usually there totally is a 4th type character class. The "Walking Liability". Nah, but seriously, there are probably only those 3 classes, because given enough will, every character action can be viewed as one of those 3 action archetypes. There is just no action thinkable that would fall outside of those 3 categories.
The phighting music goes so crazy
Recon is just support
There's the ones that attacks, defends and supports and there's the leader the one that leads.
DCUO had a ConTROLLer role where players supply mana, which is just a healer for a different counter, sadly the game is kinda dead for a few years now
The frendly heavy is definitly your 4th class : doesn't deal damage, doesn't tank damage, kinda support the enemy team... Truly some game changing gameplay mechanics
Simple wildcard
I don't think 4th core pillar is possible tbh. That's because the triangle represents all the major ways one can interact with hp, the core mechanic all combat games are based on. Losing hp, reducing enemy hp, and manipulating hp loss. As long as games are based around hp as a core resource 3 pillars will remain, with only some variation in how they are implemented and maybe a lesser occasional part of forth role in specific kinds of games (like you mentioned with movement and information). But not all games are based around hp, and if you change how players can interact with core resource, or the core resource itself, the trifecta falls apart and will naturally be replaced by a more fitting separation.
in overwatch, lucio is the multiclass
Hmmmm. Assault(offense) Engineer(Defense) Support(support) Recon(Recon) Sounds like DICE had this figured out in BF4.
Everyone knows the true fourth class is summoner
Really really thx for this video, i never play guity gears... and not buy this game yet, but with your video i'm excited to play. I'll buy it when there's a promotion... I'm a Br and this game here it's expansive... Anyway, thx so much for this video.
of course you could have a fourth class logistics
there's functionally 2 definitions of support, the one in this video, and the much more broad "ally on ally" defining dps as ally on enemy and tank on enemy on ally, which removes all other possibility's of interaction since you cant make a character designed around enemy on enemy interaction
Battlefront II has this. Their four trooper classes are Assault (Offense), Heavy (Defense), Officer (Support), and Specialist. The specialist has a sniper rifle and their core ability is Infiltration, which gives them a powerful medium-range burst-fire rifle and renders them invisible to enemy scanners. Another comment said this already, but the fourth class is essentially Hinderance (to the enemy). The Specialist's job in Battlefront II is effectively to be as annoying as possible, either by sniping you from out of effective range, or by appearing out of nowhere in a siege-breaking maneuver.
In Splatoon we do have four roles, even when it's fast-paced. When there's all four players alive on a team, we have a slayer (offense), skirmisher (forces fights and acts as a decoy), a support (paints and farms ult to buff other players) and an anchor (zones out the enemy and holds ground, acting as defense). The idea is your anchor secures the space your team already has, the skirmisher forces them to not play the objective, the slayer takes them out quickly and reliably, and the support provides any extra benefits the composition might need (there's no healing in Splatoon), and then you have more ground your anchor needs to secure so the process repeats. Only thing we sometimes switch roles depending on the circumstances, as the anchor is always needed for the whole thing to work, so a support might switch to anchor if that happens. I also think roles don't necessarily need to be designed by the developers, roles might instead emerge from different playstyles and in response to the current meta of a game, making them more natural.
Pick, maybe? It is sorta like DPS, but those are all about killing as quick as possible, while pick is more so about eliminating important targets to weaken the enemy defense/offense. I will admit, it is a fair bit similar to a multiclass between DPS and support, but eh.
Nooooo plz dont. Everything is already confusing enough. Sure theres support, defense and offense but little jimmy from another country first fogured out the meaning at 12 years old. And then theres even more depending on what game your playing. Pokemon forexample. All those new words and attack systems can be all so confusing if you arent dedicated enough to actually learn them. And then we begin talking about a 4th one!? Oh dear. I hope thats not going to actually be talked about and put into games. Anyways im yapping again.
I'll just stop right here at 2min 30, just to say, that what you just listed so far, the first offense, I have nothing really too say too much about (outside of saying that naming Warrior and FF14 it fills all three roles perfectly on its own...), defense however, tanks I have nothing against, fits, engineer also kinda fits, but Kapcan, and trap based characters, they are support types, a non-healing type of support, but still support, this is why there is already a 4th type of class, the non-healer/shielder type support, trappers, most often referred to. It's just that most of the time, that sort of thing is split to different jobs as a single button across everyone in a team, it's the most easy to just split up and shift to other classes, if you were to remove these buttons from other classes you could just make a new role, but in FF14 the reason ti's only 3 roles, is already because of queue times. and trying to form a party of what you need, gets infinitely more complicated the more diverse your roles are, look at games that they to have no or a more open role archetype system, there's way too easy of a Meta being formed excluding lesser performing classes, also in Tf2, it's not about roles per say, it's about picking a counter to the situation you're faced with, that's why you're allowed to swap on the fly. This topic is not really a topic applicable to all games, it's just something that is a case by case basis if it can be implement into a game, or if tradition outweighs exclusion.
medic, engineer, support and recon work in battlebit remastered with support getting to insta built fortifications
"his anti-air damage is bar none the highest in the game", tengu
A lawyer class would be useful