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  • @thecarrotclarinet
    @thecarrotclarinet6 күн бұрын

    Kinda feel like both David and Peter misunderstood the intent of that last audience question pretty harshly as being anti technology

  • @thecarrotclarinet
    @thecarrotclarinet6 күн бұрын

    the people commenting on the way that David giggles saying it's out of nervousness is so funny. He can barely keep it together because Peter Thiel keeps saying exactly the wrong things and thus supporting David's position

  • @anthonywalker6168
    @anthonywalker616827 күн бұрын

    Practicality, the destroyer of all delusions of grandeur and “innovative ideas”

  • @rrw00
    @rrw00Ай бұрын

    Thiel thinks the current political order is replaceable, but also that nothing else could possibly replace it... o-kayyyy

  • @pillmuncher67
    @pillmuncher67Ай бұрын

    Half of the food that gets actually eaten gets thrown away every year, and already before it even lands in peoples' fridges. Talk about scarcity.

  • @LokiBeckonswow
    @LokiBeckonswowАй бұрын

    Since 2008, we have been living in a system of "Socialism for the rich, and austerity for everyone else". This is not my opinion, this is an empirical fact, these are the words of academic yanis varoufakis. It cannot be argued, hairs cannot be split. Deal with it. We're already in socialism, just not the kind that actually helps society.

  • @LokiBeckonswow
    @LokiBeckonswowАй бұрын

    eat the rich asap obviously...

  • @ZTE-ud1be
    @ZTE-ud1be2 ай бұрын

    wow.... Thiel is an idiot

  • @icecreamcancer
    @icecreamcancer2 ай бұрын

    Why do people listen to David Graeber? He came across in this long conversation as a 17 year old who's just read marx, pathetic

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave2 ай бұрын

    Don’t quit your day job. Your career writing fiction (claiming Graeber is comparable to a 17-year old, etc) is really bad. And if you care so much about delusional losers, wait till I tell you about Peter Thiel! You ain’t foolin’ NOBODY. Log off and renew your library card. You’re in too deep, and you can’t handle it. Sorry boutcha.

  • @YOliver
    @YOliver2 ай бұрын

    This is all superficial. The real question is, what secret military technologies that could transform our lives have the powers that be been suppressing? It's moronic to dismiss this idea as a "conspiracy theory".

  • @cowflieswest3046
    @cowflieswest30463 ай бұрын

    Thiel speaks like the new Technofeudalists, who define the basic premisde of psychopathy - manipulation and complete control. Thiel admitted he wsd on a 'supercharged courser and became a lawyer for six months in order to keep his 'underhanded' actions stifled through owning a buildoig full of lawyers in DC and a slough of slimy K-Street lobbyists well equipped with tax deductible 'business dinners'. PALANTIR....Did you seer the scowl come over the psychopath's ugly fascist face? Psaypal was "rentier" all the way. It had no ATOMS as Thiel called it. No just, he dealt in electrons within a silicon chip doped to handle a binary 0 and 1 system. That was his billionaire-making PRODUCT....He was born PRIVILEGED along with the MUSKRAT...So was Trump, He tried creating a "university" before Thiel had the idea of stealing young entrepreneurs' ideas. Try and sue them, eh?...T oo bad the world money markets will crash. "Stock Buybacks" is the real inflation. You pump your company's money in to stock buybacks, it drives your share prices up. HUGE BONUS for the Corp Execs who get paid in stick options.. Thiel is a rich squirmy leech who was born a scion at the beginning of the Technofeudal Age, or Dark Tech Age...Creativity is dead. Artificial reproduction of encoded culture is "moving minds" but bodies of flesh grow stale and lethargic..NIHILISM....ENNUI....ALIENATION, ISOLATION. CLIMATE DESTRUCTION AND ENDLESS RESOURCE WARS....THAT'S PROGRESS!... No wonder we're "Amusing Ourselves To Death" (Neil Postman).. Trolling the Internet is the world's newest pastime. "Too much man. too much"

  • @tamaleloco342
    @tamaleloco3423 ай бұрын

    Interesting to hear Peter Thiel talk about not wanting to change politics or think political change is important, when he's literally bank rolling some of the most right wing politicians running for office 😂

  • @vasconcelossentimento
    @vasconcelossentimento3 ай бұрын

    im so glad i found this channel <3 music on this is way too loud tho, had to rewind a bunch to get some of the sentences

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave3 ай бұрын

    Will fix when I can thanks.

  • @ayyawar
    @ayyawar3 ай бұрын

    After listining everything, i am convinsed, Peter Thiel is creating his own dillusion to support his networth.

  • @oscarmike4915
    @oscarmike49154 ай бұрын

    This is so good! i'm glad I found this, I respect both these guys perspectives and love their books. They differ philosophically, sometimes in polarising ways, yet are both so intelligent and valuable. Such a mature discussion and glad they can sit and enjoy each other's presence enough to not cut each other off and throw in low comments on each others character (mostly). Graeber, I miss you.

  • @vasconcelossentimento
    @vasconcelossentimento4 ай бұрын

    Just another technocrat saying things like "political atheist", some weird discourse of "going against the grain" even though the host and Graeber clearly pushed him in a humiliating corner when they brought up Palantir, a literal collaboration with the most estabilished of all forces in the country. The complete unprepared fool then goes on citing Airbnb and online schooling as things that will "really change our society". I know he is only a businessman protecting his business and all, but its always depressing to actually listen to the representatives of this side of the political spectrum and see that they have embrassingly little to no substance. Thank you for posting this conversation in video! I listened to the podcast, but watching Thiel's stressed face and Graber's relaxed and joking disposition while hammering him down intellectually made my week.

  • @DJWESG1
    @DJWESG14 ай бұрын

    Needs a bump

  • @byronbraue6243
    @byronbraue62434 ай бұрын

    Graeber talked circles around this fool.

  • @lettersandnumbers993
    @lettersandnumbers9934 ай бұрын

    Thiel pretending David simply proposed to print more money "so there is more money for everyone" says so much more about Thiel than David, loool. Can he be that stupid to think David is that stupid? But even if this is a sneaky-snake-trick once again: This is still ridiculous for a sneaky trick! Such a bucket-head move and some trolls here in comments say Thiel dominated the debate. omg, this is comedy my friends!

  • @lettersandnumbers993
    @lettersandnumbers9934 ай бұрын

    26:30 here is an example how Thiel "debates" saying: "get someone to the moon... with a decentralized chaotic system" <---- see how he sneaks "chaotic" simply into it, just casually implicating decentralized = chaotic. loool what a sneaky sneakson. Thiels vibe in this video reminds me of Zuck, as if they were twins. tf. and is his point basically "let billionairs rome as free as possible, just relax, they will do the good stuff eeeermmm like pAypAL - did I say PaYPaL enough times???" looool

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave4 ай бұрын

    He’s such a snake.

  • @simondowdeswell6704
    @simondowdeswell67044 ай бұрын

    Thiel insists on scarcity when CEOs earn 300x the average employee and the richest 1% own 50% of the worlds wealth.

  • @ontolog137-uq6ce
    @ontolog137-uq6ce4 ай бұрын

    David Graeber was a soul of erudition and wit.

  • @antonroux6737
    @antonroux67374 ай бұрын

    Was Graeber assassinated?

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave4 ай бұрын

    No

  • @DJWESG1
    @DJWESG14 ай бұрын

    ​@Graeberwave was he targeted by rw forces over the years? Did his name appear on lists passed around social media? Did other prominent leftwing academics also die in and around the same period? Did austerity impact him in anyway? Or the cancelling and stigma he received have a impact on his general wellbeing?? There are questions. But it may not be as nefarious as I've suggested.

  • @antonroux6737
    @antonroux67374 ай бұрын

    @@DJWESG1I don't know the answers to your questions but he died of what was putatively a rare condition that in terms of physiologically what happened could possibly have also been caused by poisoning, and I do know he was an effective and extreme disruptor of the intellectual world view common to the age and definitely a major threat to the ruling class and economic order. He was clearly getting closer and closer to transformational and revolutionary theory from all of his fruitful analysis over the years

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave4 ай бұрын

    @@DJWESG1 you’ll have to ask people in his more immediate circle for those answers.

  • @vasconcelossentimento
    @vasconcelossentimento4 ай бұрын

    @@antonroux6737 Death due to Covid related implications are rare because the disease is new. Don't just toss fuel into this conspiracy without having a solid base for it.

  • @hiraethum
    @hiraethum4 ай бұрын

    46:17 predictably Thiel talking about Silicon Valley being the leader in innovation and creating new social forms in our society aged poorly. Not only is big tech not spurning the state its tech bros pretend to hate, it's complicit with the machine of oppression and surveillance. Big tech and tech bro "freedom" to do whatever they want aren't the vanguards, they can only reinvent forms of oppression and exploitation because they are still capitalist institutions with the logic that entails.

  • @promptcraft
    @promptcraft4 ай бұрын

    nice to see you uploading again. i recommend tiktok.

  • @eloiseripley
    @eloiseripley5 ай бұрын

    A good sophist should me able to argue a point and its opposite

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    Which Graeber does with ease.

  • @CeeCrazzy
    @CeeCrazzy5 ай бұрын

    My favorite genre... Graber Wave! Graber is MASIVE!

  • @TheKevman12
    @TheKevman125 ай бұрын

    is there an uncut version of this video?

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    This video is uncut

  • @SignOfCalm
    @SignOfCalm5 ай бұрын

    AI should clean up all the old video and audio by eliminating all David’s “ummms” and when he sharply inhales with his nose.

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    Or a montage of all the times he picks up his coffee cup, and puts it back down-never drinking from it.

  • @SignOfCalm
    @SignOfCalm5 ай бұрын

    Excellent conversation. Both my heroes.

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    Oh now this makes sense. Thiel is also your hero.

  • @SignOfCalm
    @SignOfCalm5 ай бұрын

    @@Graeberwave the convo was solvent. What’s wrong with enjoying them both? Ur bitter.

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    @@SignOfCalm if you don’t know about why Thiel is a problem and not to be adulated, then I strongly advise you log off the internet and renew your library card.

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    @@SignOfCalm and I’m bitter? Sure. I can’t be? You’re the taste police? Meanwhile Thiel is a crypto fascist, and backs such candidates clamoring for said fascism. There is no way you haven’t seen that in your algorithm given your adulation of him. The headlines cover his activities. But since we play who is tasting what, let me say what your taste is.

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave5 ай бұрын

    @@SignOfCalm oh no wait, I know what you will say next. Let me guess. You’ll suddenly invoke your pseudo-legal theory?

  • @gmac91
    @gmac915 ай бұрын

    Top tier content. Please keep doing your thing, legend.

  • @Bethos1247-Arne
    @Bethos1247-Arne5 ай бұрын

    who invited Peter Thiel? Is understanding is not on par with David Graeber's.

  • @cglavin
    @cglavin6 ай бұрын

    LOL, the simps for billionaires here sucking off Theil is fucking hilarious... bootlickers, the lot of them...

  • @merlingeikie
    @merlingeikie6 ай бұрын

    Surprising how low brow Thiel sounds in comparison to Graeber.

  • @infrawiki
    @infrawiki6 ай бұрын

    49:56 "there was no technology to stop terrorism in 2001" it was allowed to happen. it was an inside job.

  • @DJWESG1
    @DJWESG14 ай бұрын

    I think the phrase 'outside job' helps us better. Flipping Alex Jones on his head, we take it a little further and ask what sort of relationship did Jones have with Stone in the late 90s, and if the 'deep state' and the 'marxists' are actually a thing, and maybe it's simply the republican party, bannon and Co, with a little help from Blackwater.

  • @infrawiki
    @infrawiki6 ай бұрын

    does anybody have a text transcript of this?

  • @_sumina
    @_sumina6 ай бұрын

    literal ass discussion

  • @TransSisterRadio1488
    @TransSisterRadio14886 ай бұрын

    "new thinking" lol "is discouraged" lol. LOL thats PRETTY funny

  • @MarkMark
    @MarkMark7 ай бұрын

    Peter Thiel, eh. The destroy-the-world clown himself.

  • @MarkMark
    @MarkMark7 ай бұрын

    “I broke democracy and the world, I will ask for forgiveness later.”

  • @vasconcelossentimento
    @vasconcelossentimento4 ай бұрын

    @@MarkMark this part was crazy, villain arc highlight moment

  • @Gwest555
    @Gwest5557 ай бұрын

    “Model airplanes that can blow people up” 😂😂😂

  • @davidp.7620
    @davidp.76207 ай бұрын

    And this is what happens one you take two experts in one field and get them to talk about something they know nothing about. Both of them fail to understand that engineering challenges have intrinsic difficulties you won't get over by rearranging the management structure and sources of funding. The Manhattan project and the moon landings were enormous projects but they're nothing compared with the things Graeber expected to be a reality by the 2000's. An immortality pill is a ridiculous idea unless we're counting some sort of army of nanobots that can restore human cells and that would require the very "bit technology" he sort of dismissed to go way beyond what we're currently capalbe of. Teleportation is a physical impossibility as far as our models go. Building a city on Mars could be possible if we really dedicated ourselves to it, but what the hell do we want a city on Mars for?

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave7 ай бұрын

    The point is just flying way over your head. Peter thiel is not an expert. He is a guy with a lot of money (who boosts far right candidates no less). You should log off and renew your library card.

  • @davidp.7620
    @davidp.76207 ай бұрын

    @@Graeberwave ironically you missed the point of my comment completely and went for nitpicking on the detail of whether we should call Thiel an expert investor instead of addressing the actual reason for my comment: neither of them knows anything about how science and engineering progress or how they are impacted by economics and politics.

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave7 ай бұрын

    @@davidp.7620 Graeber does exactly what you say he doesn’t. Do you need me to quote the video for you?

  • @Graeberwave
    @Graeberwave7 ай бұрын

    @@davidp.7620 in the Utopia of Rules (a book he wrote), the whole thing is about the socioeconomic processes that affect technology, innovation, etc. You knew so much before. Log off and renew your library card.

  • @davidp.7620
    @davidp.76207 ай бұрын

    @@Graeberwave he addresses those points (in fact both of them do) but they get almost anything wrong because they know nothing about science or engineering. Neither man has ever worked in any engineering project and they make this fact obvious from the very first intervention. Basically the stuff they think we should have gotten already but the "system" has prevented us from it can be classified into thee groups: - Physical impossibilities: ideas as ridiculous as teleportation or an immortality pill. - Things that would require much more development in the "bit technologies" they keep dismissing like curing cancer. By the way, their ignorance is clearly shown by the fact that they talk about "curing cancer" as one single challenge instead of a diverse group of different problems we'd need to solve for different types of cancer. - Projects we can already do but have no reason to. We can already send robots to Mars and start building there, we just don't want to spend an enormous amount of resources that are better spent somewhere else. There are problems you just can't solve by wanting it very badly. Science is not politics. Just because something is written on a book it doesn't mean it's automatically true. If the points Graeber makes on "The Utopia of Rules" are similar to the ones he made here, then the book is a very bad one and not worth the readers' time, no matter how many condescending notes you want to end your comments with.

  • @Owl350
    @Owl3507 ай бұрын

    The US doesn't need a Military ! Changing the Fuel is the best idea !

  • @EmergencyButtons
    @EmergencyButtons7 ай бұрын

    “I want to live forever” 😢

  • @seanmcdonald4686
    @seanmcdonald46867 ай бұрын

    Looks to me like we seriously shouldn’t have forgiven the criminals who founded PayPal.

  • @seanmcdonald4686
    @seanmcdonald46867 ай бұрын

    “You used to put them in academia, but now academia’s all about self-marketing.”

  • @table757
    @table7578 ай бұрын

    not secretly. fbi

  • @icyx9268
    @icyx92688 ай бұрын

    (side note) nice edit on the thumbnail very accurate depiction of peter