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Listening to your music collection of Bach and seeing you swinging your hand in time brought back a lovely memory of a dear friend we lost to cancer at age 30. He was a wonderful pianist and had a grand piano crammed into a room in his small house. He would light the candles on his piano, turn out the electric light and PLAY Bach, Beethoven ,Handel so beautifully it was dreamlike. He was the one who gave us a majority of music education with little facts thrown in and lots of humor…..he used to say,’’Bach is a real toetapper!’’ Still makes us laugh because he is so rhythmic. Thanks for your video, it was a pleasure to listen to your different versions and observations.
Nice video with an incredibly sloppy, heavy-handed and utterly incorrect title.
I am not an expert, but I would say the sound equipment on view did not come cheap.
I'm sorry for my silly comment. The remote looks like a wand. Bada-bim bada-bach branden-burg!
I'm not hearing much about how this piece defined jazz, prog-rock, etc. It's almost all about the the particulars of the piece, comparing the recordings, etc.
I've heard for many, many years that Bach is the father of modern western harmony. While there are some Bach pieces I really enjoy, but I'm not buying Bach being the father of Western music. There are too many varied and disparate threads and directions in music that have shaped western music. Blues, bluegrass and other 'folk' genres from early America that without, modern and popular music wouldn't sound at all the same.
Music bible, Genesis 1.1: "In the beginning, Bach ..." 😍
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Clearest recording on KZread
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I have a Denon DCM 5000 with 2 outputs: digital direct and analog 24 bits processing and they sound diferente; digital is shine, 24 bits is warm
That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing
Pero si esos conciertos están inspirados en el estilo de Vivaldi 🤷 o sea antes que Bach están los italianos y fueron ellos los que iniciaron todo.
Indeed, I mention that in the video
One of the most important aspect of these concertos that is completely missing from this discussion is the “concerto grosso” instrumentation. Any recording engineer would record and mix with this in mind. Lastly, all the Brandeburgs use klavier (or harpsichord). No. 5 is no exception. What is unusual is the extended cadenza, which is not duplicated in any of the other concertos.
Thanks for your contribution to the topic.
I have a Primaluna tube preamp but sold their amplifier because it couldn't drive my Magico speakers. I am using Accuphase Class A (A75) amplifier and it is magical. All the great attributes of tubes & SS in one package. The tube preamp allows me to roll tubes and fine tune the sound for my preference. It's a perfect match. Thank you for this video. Your presentations are very interesting and informative.
Thanks for sharing this Bob. You’re very kind. It does indeed sound like you have a ‘perfect match’. Enjoy!
Thank you for explaining Class A and then the comparisons. I just purchased an Accuphase A75 because of this video. Pass Labs are too big and too hot for my situation. Accuphase sounds amazing and with a small footprint and less heat. It is the best amp I have ever owned and because of your explanation, I understand WHY is sounds so good! Thanks again.
Glad it was helpful! Enjoy your Accuphase. Great products
Thank you for this. The Mood Indigo intro / impro made me laugh or was it a yelp - just a joy.
Both! 😀
Just give me Gould and Richter playing #5; thats all the world needs.
Indeed.. but how do you know until you compare? For me the beauty, lies in peoples abilities to interpret what is there and make it there own, without necessarily changing what is written. I too have my golden recordings that I tend to fall back on, but new versions are like mini holidays. One day you visit one and never entirely return.
@@PearlAcoustics yeh........I mini holidays reference! Thats true but typically I can't get through them. When I pick a netflex series/movie I give them a chance but I can tell pretty soon that I can't get thru it.
I want to know which of his favourite prog-rock and heavy metal artists that he thinks co-relate to Bach, and if he could name their songs and which albums from his collection of heavy metal and prog-rock they originate from. And only the americans spell favourite without the u because they don't know any better.
Hi, I sense an air of frustration in your comment. I think you are probably better placed to identify the tracks because, I am guess you are very knowledgable in this area? But for one, Cream’s ‘Toad’. Led Zeppelin’s Moby Dick, Dep Purple’s the Mule ‘live’. It occurs whenever a group start a number, develop the theme, (or not) then fade out to one single player, usually drums or bass, playing the role of the harpsichord which was seen as the percussion instrument in Bach’s time to keep tempo, in its day… in the jazz world, Dave Brubeck Take Five is a perfect example. Hopefully this helps?
Can vinyl phonograph records sound better than CDs or other digital formats. As an engineer and music lover the answer is an unequivocal yes, sometimes they can. There are a number of reasons not related to the respective technologies but how they are used. A well made and mastered phonograph record can sound much better than a poorly made CD which IMO is the reference standard for digital recordings of music. It can also be the other way around. One advantage of mastering vinyl records is dynamic compression which boost the gain at the end of each musical phrase extending the reverberation that is the progressively softer die off many of us like. Insofar as the technologies go, they are in a different world. Phonograph records are the end product of over half a century of a late 19the century concept. The RBCD format is the result of late 20th century technology during a period of incredible progress in every area of human endeavor. Based on the inadequate concept of stereophonic high fidelity two channel reproduction of music, RBCD meets all criteria for all acoustic music and all but a handful of absurdly contrived electronic music. Vinyl phonograph records is an art requiring a great deal of skill in recording mastering that has to take into account where the technology is inadequate and compensate for it. Producing CDs also requires great skill and if mastered the same way could duplicate the vinyl record to where they are indistinguishable. However, they are not mastered the same way and therefore obtain different results. There is a matter of subjective preference for which one is better and fierce arguments based usually on uninformed audiophiles who know almost nothing about the technology and where the music being recorded is IMO hardly worth the effort. RBCD is one of only two technologies that have impressed me over the last 60 years, the other being the transition from vacuum tube technology to solid state technology. Again for some a matter of preference. BTW I have about the same number of phonograph records as CDs, about 3000+ of each. My best record player is Empire 698 with a Shure V15 Type V MR and my favorite CD player is a $200 JVC CD player. They play through a system that is very different from audiophile systems, far more complex, and from my point of view much better. Its goal is not to reproduce recordings but to engineer sound fields. It includes at least 14 time delay circuits, 16 equalization circuits not counting RIAA for the phonograph, a slew of mixers, 18 speaker systems on 6 channels, and over 100 controls only a dozen of which are used for individual recordings. 16 of the speaker systems are small inexpensive two way systems that project their sounds at the walls and ceiling which are used as reflectors and diffusers. Streamed audio from KZread played over an inexpensive Bluetooth receiver from my phone works just as well as the CDs and records.
Thanks for your contribution to the topic. I hope you enjoyed the video and its conclusions? Enjoy the music.
@PearlAcoustics If I didn't enjoy your videos I wouldn't watch them and have subscribed. I offer a different point of view that is not intended to offend. I have no emotional connection to the equipment which is just another machine with an engineering goal and no emotional reaction to music, I just enjoy some sounds more than others. (I've trained my mind to not react emotionally as a defense against being manipulated.) Here's one way to judge a sound system. If you paid good money to go to a concert and heard what comes out of your sound system would you feel you'd gotten your money's worth?
Chamber orchestra of the czar, nonesuch, 1970’s 😊
I don’t know this one… who’s conducting, may I ask?
The spelling was “Saar,” not “Czar”… my misrecollection! Conducted by Karl Ristenpart, liner notes by Joshua Rifkin. Wikipedia says these recordings were made prior to 1967.
@@cellovid indeed, I have found it but not on Spotify yet 😉
Brandenburg #5 is merely a minor update to a concerto composed for and performed by the musicians at the court of Prince Leopold of Anhalt-Koethen when Bach was his Kapellmeister (1717-1723). An earlier version of #5 has a much shorter "cadenza." The legend about the dedication to Margrave has be circulating since the 19th century and gives a distorted account of the history of the so-called Brandenburg Concertos. Bach called them "Six Concertos for Diverse Instruments" and none of them were composed for the Margrave, despite the dedication. Unknown to Bach, the Margrave didn't have the resources to perform these concertos, due to cuts in the music budget by his brother, the Prussian king. When Prince Leopold learned that the king had dismissed the excellent virtuoso musicians at the Prussian court, Leopold hired them to perform in his own band under Bach's direction. Bach reused movements of Brandenburg #1 and #3 in his Leipzig cantatas. When he directed the Leipzig Collegium Musicum concerts, he performed an arrangement of #4 in which he replaced the principal violin with a harpsichord. There are many copies of earlier versions of the Brandenburgs. There are 13 copies of #5, including an older version that lacked the triplets we're accustomed hearing in the flute and principal violin parts in the 1st movement. So the oft repeated story that poor little Bach composed 6 concertos than were never performed and were "lost" is essentially BS.
Thank you for this insightful additional information and back story. The myth is busted!
What do I choose? Not jazz, rock or metal. lol
Some people can hear how the digital jitter at 1 MHz offsets the timing on the DAC. Just kidding, the DACs are what make the sound, the rest is mythology.
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Thanks for sharing. To my ears, the recordings in large open spaces (churches, cathedrals, concert halls) have too many overtones and echoes, which loses the intimate "chamber" quality of the Brandenburgs. If you can't hear the harpsichord, then the other players are playing too loud--or the recording engineers are not mixing correctly. Also, recorder is MUCH preferred over flute; this is one reason the Cafe Zimmerman is more pleasing to the ears.
Thank you. I like your reasoning!
"...the harpsicord you can hardly hear..." I did a triple take at this moment thinking you were a deaf old fool. The KZread compression does you no favors. I went to Idagio to listen and wow, what a difference. That Cafe Zimmerman is quite nice, however I find it wonderfully balanced. It's a lovely trio there. The harpsicord isn't in the background at all. Certainly aren't selling those Pearl speakers to me. Sounds like you are missing out on what a modern technology tweeter can do with high-end accuracy, but thanks for the Cafe Zimmerman recommendation, it's fantastic!
Thanks for your comment.what I meant is the balance is ‘correct’ meaning it’s nicely placed into its natural setting. You’re always welcome to come and listen for yourself one day… 😉
Someone needs to go back in history and dose old Johann Sebastian
I always return to Karl Richter's version of the Brandenburgs. I enjoy Rheinhardt Goebel's version with Musica Antiqua Koln, despite the terrible reviews it receieved.
Indeed, never mind the reviews, if it sounds good to you - it’s good! Thanks for your comment
Richter 😴
My favorite symphony of all time, I have heard this live 5 times, know it by heart!
Next up, you’ll need to conduct it! 😉
I wish!
@@IvanTerreroDDS 😉
I fell in love with all the Bach Bradenburg concertos the first time I heard this when I was 14..I have listened many times since then (at least once a year)
Funny how music seems to change with us, as we get older… discovering new subtleties along the way.
y Piazzolla!
Absolutely!
Fantastic review!
Thank you. Very kind!
What if he had lived twenty more years?
Good point. Who knows….? At least, hopefully he would have received the recognition he deserved.
Great video. Only thing I think not mentioned (forgive me if it was), was Beethoven's involvement in the decision for the data capacity of CD's - 74 minutes to fit his 5th symphony. Perhaps nod to SPDIF, Arcam, players and Black Box, Deltec
Hi, thanks for your kind appreciation. indeed… I mention the link to his 9th. Symphony, somewhere in the series… because that was the problem, at the time.
I like Bach too, BUT, IT IS WHITE FOLKS MUSIC , and everyone is NOT in the thrall of of white culture
Hi, thanks very much for your comment. I totally get it. However, one likes to hope that this is not (and need not) necessarily be the case. Our music choices are very much linked to our upbringing. Music, in itself is not racial, it just is. Today, modern symphony orchestras audition new musicians behind curtains to choose solely on their performance ability. And via streaming all music is open to all.
Interesting that I could hear the difference but generally not a lot of sound stage on any of the recordings. I listened through my class A amp, where I expect a much wider sound stage. My personal favorite was the Sugden where I heard a wider sound stage it almost pushed beyond my speakers, which nothing else did. Be interesting to hear through my system from the source recording.
Hi Steve, thanks for your comment. Of course the in room microphones cannot really begin to capture the subtlety of soundstage as it actually is, in the room. I do these only for fun, but at least your system captured some of it! Best wishes, H.
I missed where he talked about "The concerto that defined Jazz, Prog-Rock, Metal & even some Pop formats"
Hi, my apologies… the title was meant more as a hypothetical question based upon the structure of the first movement. If you look at the form of the first movement, with repeated themes and development, ending with a very long solo, after which the full orchestra / band come back in, one more time with the main theme to finish the work, you will find this structure in so many jazz and rock structures, especially in live performances in the 1970’s and 80’s. I hope that helps a bit?
On that kind of morning, I put on Gould's 1955 Goldberg. First time I heard jazz in European classical music was Chopin.
You can never go wrong with Gould! 😉 thanks for your comment
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
Thank you for giving your input on one of my favorite music pieces! Cool fact: Daft Punk released RAM on my 18th Birthday. What a crazy coincidence!
😀 thanks for your kind appreciation. Wonderful coincidence
I picked up the Cafe Zimmerman Brandenburgs 4-5 years ago. They are wonderful! I recommend exploring the larger Zimmerman catalog.
Absolutely!
Since i started to play a bit jazz after conservatory, as a bach addicted happy victim, i immediately felt the "origin" of jazz in Bach counterpoint, delay, using tritono in clavicembalo ben temperato ... as today i'm a lawyer but i can't live without Jazz & Bach ...
Thanks for sharing your back story. Very interesting. And the great thing is. You. Never need to be without Jazz or Bach!
Not really, jazz is a African American independent invention
@@tesmith47 "african states" maybe, america it's a continent, anyway tritono, delays, improvisations, voices who run together and in contrast, where already created by bach, anyway u can ask to dave brubeck who noticed "the similarity between the figured bass that Bach used with the choir, and the chord progressions that a jazz musician uses" or ask to charles rosen and so on...
That bass awesome
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I'd like to hear those loudspeakers in a controlled space. I see three surfaces of your room are reflective so you are bound to have unrealistic balance issues.
And you would be very welcome indeed. Perhaps the photos are misleading, as the acoustics balance is very good. I made a video in the making of the room… Building our new listening room kzread.info/dash/bejne/pZl6rMWug8jSoZc.html
Cheapest way to try what class a amp sounds like is to go with jlh 1969 class a amp. 10 watts.
Thanks for this tip!
Martha Argerich is pronounced correctly (is a catalonian surname) "argerík".
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I'm a great fan of jazz, prog rock and metal since i was a teenager. At my 50`s i've discovered Bach. Now i understand why.
Nice!
Same here. At 50 I finally took the time to learn why the music I like sounds the way it does
After all, what was the original tone of the fifth concerto? I mean the 1º movement
Hi thanks for your question, I am not totally sure what you are asking. The key is D Major, or are you referring to the pitch at the time, perhaps?
I think I mixed up the concepts. I'm Brazilian and when we want to mention the key of a song we don't say key, but tone. So, when I heard the samples you brought, I thought the first movement played by the "Concerto Italiano" is in Db (D minor), whereas in the same 1st movement played by the "Concerto Cologne" (the 3rd sample you brought) the key appears to be C. Also, I am very happy you answered my question, Sir. Appreciate it!@@PearlAcoustics
@@marcelosarkis9326 you’re very welcome!
Yes, the modern trend of galloping through the score destroys the possibility of phrasing each bar to augment the rythm and syncopation of the melody.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think you’re not alone on this one
Harley, you hit the nail on the head. The Brandenburgs are good Dixieland with superb syncopation. But the best, head and shoulders over the rest is by " The Virtuosi of England" The analogue tape version was extraordinarily high quality.
Thanks! Will need to track your suggestion down
An absolute gem! I'd argue that Exodus is to Reggae or, by extension, to the whole mixed bag of so-called World Music what Kind of Blue by Miles Davis is to Jazz. Both albums are masterpieces that transcend their genres and appeal to a whole world of people who don't necessarily dive deep into Reggae or Jazz.
Thanks! A very interesting comment
Wow, I'm so happy I came across this channel.
We too. Welcome!
Like the Sistine chapel defined Tintin