What in the world is he actually saying here, can someone break this down?
@jeffreyjohnson73592 күн бұрын
He's misunderstanding time, ironic for a great physicist. If you run out of time, you lose.
@jeffreyjohnson73592 күн бұрын
I didn't realize Jonathan Penrose was Roger's brother...
@MarcVL12343 күн бұрын
The problem with this argument is that it ignores heuristics: pragmatic and informal shortcut approaches to "understanding" or knowing things, that either cannot be formally proven, or else would be prohibitively challenging to do so. Computers can be (and have been) programmed to identify things through heuristics.
@seabud64085 күн бұрын
One of the wisest men on the planet. There aren’t very many of them .. people who can think outside the box . You know .. real scientists who don’t accept the dogma they were trained to believe about the nature of reality. See his theories on a cyclic model of the Universe and how consciousness may be mediated in the brain/body via quantum processes. But note .. not manufactured by the brain. There is no evidence that the brain secretes or manufactures consciousness. Only people who haven’t looked at the evidence propose that and … no one knows how to “make” consciousness from LEGO like “dead” atoms. How do you make awareness from Lego ?
@furkfurkyfurk912311 күн бұрын
I bet he was still better than 99.9% of the population
@williamreeve537611 күн бұрын
Celebrating paganistic images is a prime example why the LORD commands that women are not to teach men.
@jodieleeheaneyseers609922 күн бұрын
Hi I have a bible like that the binding is not very good if you could get back to me I could send pics as I would love to find out more about it thanks
@rollei35mm29 күн бұрын
Nitroxides baby
@dianabanana830729 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for your clear and interesting video. I have been a friend 😁of the I Ching from an age of 17 years. Back then I didnt understand it, but always had and have a huge respect as if the book was alive. Now I,m 54 and when I ask my good old wise friend I Ching a question I can feel its loyal and unconditional energy for guiding me to the best posible choice. Its so profound and mysterious. I am trully greatful to have this friend lying on my bookshelf. Thank you again for your expalnation and bring it to the west of this Earth we live upon.
@I8ofYeshua29 күн бұрын
Would you please post, I John 5:7? Thank you
@das.gegenmittelАй бұрын
He is strongly moving towards a mythologization of philosophy and science. We do Not Even know what it really is and he is excluding it by mere feelings.
@MB-oo5tyАй бұрын
Optime tibi gratias ago pro tantis informationibus comparandis. Salvete ex Mexico.
@loveisall5520Ай бұрын
What a joy to come across this here, five years later! I grew up as a Presbyterian here in Texas with the Authorized Version alternating with the Revised Standard and my father loved the Knox. Great presentation!
@alvinmarcus5780Ай бұрын
They don't recommend wearing gloves when handling old books now. Said it could actually cause more damage.
@scottychen2397Ай бұрын
New agey what? Grasp? If it’s not christian and it’s a personally spiritual thing, then this word is not derogatory.
@scottychen2397Ай бұрын
And hopeless at just sticking to Atiyah’s names: What the fuck is a ‘twistor’. Spinor itself had the entire theory of Galois field extensions stuck between the ill definedness of algebra and geometry. Spinor is a concept of ill conceivable majesty; you should just call whatever the manifold is a spinor if it’s meant to be a model for this algebro-geometrically ill defined construction that isn’t of a constructive nature. It’s meant to be well-defined. Check the projective geometry notes: Is a projective plane (in the pure sense of concept) meant to orientable or unorientable? If it’s the same thing as in GoS then it’s not going to become a fucking sphere is it!
@Sam-ri3hr26 күн бұрын
This is interesting. Where can i read mpre about your view?
@seabud64085 күн бұрын
If you’re so clever how about trying to solve the mystery of consciousness and the origin of the universe /poss’ cyclic universe . He has theories which aren’t pie in the sky for both.
@scottychen23974 күн бұрын
Is that the nature of consciousness? The peak of human consciousness: of cumming inside my girl…..? Why would I be referring to any result due to Penrose?
@scottychen23974 күн бұрын
@@Sam-ri3hr oh, thank you! Obviosuly, Twistor has a meaning…. I’m commenting on a fine analytical tick I have with its use at all: given the use of spinnors that model quantum mechanical spin: What is spin? Not a rotation…. It’s meant to be an intrinsic measure: your headache is a quantum mechanical event , in the sense of having been accelerated by the canonical particles….. Nigel Hitchin’s recent paper on the spinnor-valued Higgs field is a good example of my attitude. He uses deep topology in a way that reflects my attitudes.
@adayah2933Ай бұрын
I think it is naive of Penrose to think that the theoretical impossibility of machines to prove theorems implies that humans are not machines. Humans will never be able to prove all theorems either, simply because some of them take 10^300 symbols to even formulate, let alone prove.
@Henry_WilderАй бұрын
The time limit in chess is often considered absurd. When you introduce a clock to chess, you're no longer measuring the skill of a player but rather their speed. It's akin to the pressure of timed exams, where many students who might have excelled under different conditions fail not because of their abilities but because they run out of time. It's a scenario where the absence of a time constraint could have led to success. So I get you Penrose, i don't like timed chess myself, it puts me in a box😂😂
@rahulramkissoon8 күн бұрын
But you could spend hours analyzing a position. There are billions of possibilities.
@Henry_Wilder7 күн бұрын
@@rahulramkissoon Billions of Possibilities (which isn't true btw) in a short time?🤨
@rahulramkissoon7 күн бұрын
@@Henry_Wilder simply Google how many possible chess moves there are. It's more than the number of atoms in the universe. Ruling out illegal moves, it's something like 10^40 possible moves.
@Henry_Wilder7 күн бұрын
@@rahulramkissoon Alright, let's say the validity of your statement about the vast number of possible moves in chess is true. I think you're missing the point. I'm talking about the dynamics of a timed versus untimed match. In a timed setting, the pressure to decide on the optimal move within a constrained timeframe intensifies. This doesn't necessarily imply inferiority; rather, it highlights the challenge of making critical decisions under time constraints. My point is that in a timed game, where seconds count, the margin for deep analysis of each move is significantly reduced compared to its untimed counterpart. This reduction in available time can increase the risk of suboptimal choices, not due to a lack of skill, but simply because there isn't enough time to thoroughly evaluate all potential moves. Do you get?
@rahulramkissoon6 күн бұрын
@@Henry_Wilder So if we played a game without a timer. At what point do you think would be too long for a person to play a move? 1 hour? 24 hours? 1 year? You could analyze a position for months. I agree that time constraints aren't for everyone. But we have to atleast agree on the time limit per move, else you could be waiting years
@itsjoeybytchАй бұрын
We're all glad you signed, Michael! Today is your birthday where I live, so happy birthday, sir! As a literature and professional writing student, you're one of my greatest inspirations. Much love from Australia! 💝
@MarjanSIАй бұрын
Yes, true
@chriswarburtonbrown1566Ай бұрын
I was at Wadham 92-95 so this was incredibly nostalgic for me. Hapoy days! A very accurate picture of life at Wadham, although I don't remember us speaking as posh as this lot! Maybe I just didn't notice.
@WadhamCollegeOxfordАй бұрын
Full full now online: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqKbsrmPkcypips.html
@pradeeppandey72282 ай бұрын
🙏
@gentrysmith57482 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for this wonderful video! The last quotation from Man in the High Castle was very moving.
@nolanr14002 ай бұрын
Computation is not intelligence. AI is just an oxymoron
@nickchavez72028 күн бұрын
Thank you! Someone finally says it. There is no intelligence behind AI. It's not even artifical stupidity. All AI is a more powerful form of computation.
@StephenCooteNZ2 ай бұрын
Very interesting and well-presented. Thank you. Best wishes from New Zealand.
@bennettr92182 ай бұрын
literally DOZENS of computers!!!
@clairejames24452 ай бұрын
A blast from the past! Would you consider putting the whole video up? I’d love to see it and today’s students could learn about the prehistoric times when we left notes on each other’s doors as no one had mobile phones…
@WadhamCollegeOxford2 ай бұрын
A few people have asked so we're definitely considering it.
@WadhamCollegeOxfordАй бұрын
Full video now online! kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqKbsrmPkcypips.html
@Kevlexicon2 ай бұрын
how does this not have more views? extremely well-presented information
@Mariupol_Kraft2 ай бұрын
I'm so glad. My long-awaited expectation, finally, this wonderful scientist paid attention to this question. Since the distant 1997, I have been very interested in this question. but there was no opportunity to do science. I wish you great luck. I advise you to conduct experiments with acetabulary, acting on it, and finding mechanisms that disrupt the work on the formation of the cytoskeleton. It will be necessary to analyze and then try to change the cytoskeleton in a targeted way. And then it will be possible to get close to the technology of genetic programming of the cytoskeleton.
@quirkycollectionsbybritney93432 ай бұрын
SHAWAAAANDA!!! 🎉
@JLevant12 ай бұрын
Thanks for the beautiful and informative presentation. Superb.
@Lewdog.3 ай бұрын
Is anyone else getting no audio from the video? I'm getting subtitles which means it must have had audio at the upload stage? Fascinating video, either way. Thanks
@WadhamCollegeOxford3 ай бұрын
@Lewdog audio is working on our end. The audio does seem to have been mixed to pan more to one side than the other so if you're using mono sound settings or you only have 1 working headphone side, there could be problems there.
@Lewdog.3 ай бұрын
Ah yes it was that. Appreciate the reply@@WadhamCollegeOxford
@WicCaesar3 ай бұрын
I Ching also appears in His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. It is used by a scientist to communicate with the angels of that universe, who live in different worlds.
@1alopezpr3 ай бұрын
"Derivative copyright law" The reason, the word of God is well preserved in the KJV 1611, by the Royal Crown of England, to preserve authenticity for over 400 years now. May God keep you blessed. All glory to God Almighty!
@1wc3 ай бұрын
Seems fallacious, thought time limit can't give you a draw in chess?
@rahulramkissoon8 күн бұрын
You can still stalemate and get a draw or agree to a draw regardless of time.
@pingwang60783 ай бұрын
Good!
@pingwang60783 ай бұрын
Good!
@ejenkins47113 ай бұрын
To transcend consiousness un must combine words, numbers and symbols to build the bridge to the unconsious CGJ
@israelisjeshuas70093 ай бұрын
Very interesting, I learnt a lot. Thanks.
@yudoball3 ай бұрын
Love Sir Penrose
@jshellenberger78763 ай бұрын
I created a new stock market based on the worth () of your life. #POW 2567 Feb 27
@BrickBreaker214 ай бұрын
I was really bad at chess. So I settled for solving black hole equations, consciousness, and time travel. 😂
@timenixeКүн бұрын
😂
@selaminbelica7774 ай бұрын
Thanks for sharing! Check out some interesting facts about the King James Bible kzread.info/dash/bejne/hG2aztSAp5uYaZc.html
@hihello-sx1sx4 ай бұрын
Penrose states that Gödel’s incompleteness theorem is an indication that our consciousness is not computational. But I don’t see how Gödel’s theorem necessarily excludes computational processes being involved. Gödel’s theorem just shows that we are able to identify truths that apply within formal systems but which are not derivable by the rules of those systems. Machine learning algorithms also do this all the time - Natural Language Processing is probably the most well known example, which is able to compile facts about language syntax and semantics without using any rules about language whatsoever. There’s nothing inherently non-computational about this sort of process.
@crabb99662 ай бұрын
Greetings. I might be wrong but from my understanding/perspective I don't think you understood Penrose's inference.
@hihello-sx1sx2 ай бұрын
@crabb9966 Oh right. What specifically do you think I’ve misunderstood?
@crabb99662 ай бұрын
@@hihello-sx1sx"what it really said" "whatever rules we have" "able to transcend" your argument is rigid and doesn't explain what he is getting at, well this is from my perspective. In my opinion most proponents of computer brains should take a step back to a neutral position as it is merely an extrapolation with no sound basis, the way I see it. Materialistic world view doesn't even work philosophically.
@crabb99662 ай бұрын
@@hihello-sx1sx he said you could transcend this systems whatever the rules might be, don't take the theorem at face value. Think about the alternatvie implication.
@adayah2933Ай бұрын
Penrose probably confused Gödel’s theorem with the Church's theorem. Or maybe these two are related in a way that I don't comprehend.
@HigherPlanes4 ай бұрын
With the multitude of bibles that have been translated over the centuries this should be easy to find. Can someone tell me what was God's first creation?
@PaoloVolpeFireFoxАй бұрын
Suo Figlio il Cristo Gesù!! 🏹
@1gumbah4 ай бұрын
My compliments for a splendid presentation
@JackReacher1104 ай бұрын
So do I. God doesn’t exist 😊 in reality, but exist only in religious belief. 😊
@whidoineedthis4 ай бұрын
The more info that's out there, the more misinformation is out there as well. King James Preface clearly states this matter.
Пікірлер
What in the world is he actually saying here, can someone break this down?
He's misunderstanding time, ironic for a great physicist. If you run out of time, you lose.
I didn't realize Jonathan Penrose was Roger's brother...
The problem with this argument is that it ignores heuristics: pragmatic and informal shortcut approaches to "understanding" or knowing things, that either cannot be formally proven, or else would be prohibitively challenging to do so. Computers can be (and have been) programmed to identify things through heuristics.
One of the wisest men on the planet. There aren’t very many of them .. people who can think outside the box . You know .. real scientists who don’t accept the dogma they were trained to believe about the nature of reality. See his theories on a cyclic model of the Universe and how consciousness may be mediated in the brain/body via quantum processes. But note .. not manufactured by the brain. There is no evidence that the brain secretes or manufactures consciousness. Only people who haven’t looked at the evidence propose that and … no one knows how to “make” consciousness from LEGO like “dead” atoms. How do you make awareness from Lego ?
I bet he was still better than 99.9% of the population
Celebrating paganistic images is a prime example why the LORD commands that women are not to teach men.
Hi I have a bible like that the binding is not very good if you could get back to me I could send pics as I would love to find out more about it thanks
Nitroxides baby
Thank you so much for your clear and interesting video. I have been a friend 😁of the I Ching from an age of 17 years. Back then I didnt understand it, but always had and have a huge respect as if the book was alive. Now I,m 54 and when I ask my good old wise friend I Ching a question I can feel its loyal and unconditional energy for guiding me to the best posible choice. Its so profound and mysterious. I am trully greatful to have this friend lying on my bookshelf. Thank you again for your expalnation and bring it to the west of this Earth we live upon.
Would you please post, I John 5:7? Thank you
He is strongly moving towards a mythologization of philosophy and science. We do Not Even know what it really is and he is excluding it by mere feelings.
Optime tibi gratias ago pro tantis informationibus comparandis. Salvete ex Mexico.
What a joy to come across this here, five years later! I grew up as a Presbyterian here in Texas with the Authorized Version alternating with the Revised Standard and my father loved the Knox. Great presentation!
They don't recommend wearing gloves when handling old books now. Said it could actually cause more damage.
New agey what? Grasp? If it’s not christian and it’s a personally spiritual thing, then this word is not derogatory.
And hopeless at just sticking to Atiyah’s names: What the fuck is a ‘twistor’. Spinor itself had the entire theory of Galois field extensions stuck between the ill definedness of algebra and geometry. Spinor is a concept of ill conceivable majesty; you should just call whatever the manifold is a spinor if it’s meant to be a model for this algebro-geometrically ill defined construction that isn’t of a constructive nature. It’s meant to be well-defined. Check the projective geometry notes: Is a projective plane (in the pure sense of concept) meant to orientable or unorientable? If it’s the same thing as in GoS then it’s not going to become a fucking sphere is it!
This is interesting. Where can i read mpre about your view?
If you’re so clever how about trying to solve the mystery of consciousness and the origin of the universe /poss’ cyclic universe . He has theories which aren’t pie in the sky for both.
Is that the nature of consciousness? The peak of human consciousness: of cumming inside my girl…..? Why would I be referring to any result due to Penrose?
@@Sam-ri3hr oh, thank you! Obviosuly, Twistor has a meaning…. I’m commenting on a fine analytical tick I have with its use at all: given the use of spinnors that model quantum mechanical spin: What is spin? Not a rotation…. It’s meant to be an intrinsic measure: your headache is a quantum mechanical event , in the sense of having been accelerated by the canonical particles….. Nigel Hitchin’s recent paper on the spinnor-valued Higgs field is a good example of my attitude. He uses deep topology in a way that reflects my attitudes.
I think it is naive of Penrose to think that the theoretical impossibility of machines to prove theorems implies that humans are not machines. Humans will never be able to prove all theorems either, simply because some of them take 10^300 symbols to even formulate, let alone prove.
The time limit in chess is often considered absurd. When you introduce a clock to chess, you're no longer measuring the skill of a player but rather their speed. It's akin to the pressure of timed exams, where many students who might have excelled under different conditions fail not because of their abilities but because they run out of time. It's a scenario where the absence of a time constraint could have led to success. So I get you Penrose, i don't like timed chess myself, it puts me in a box😂😂
But you could spend hours analyzing a position. There are billions of possibilities.
@@rahulramkissoon Billions of Possibilities (which isn't true btw) in a short time?🤨
@@Henry_Wilder simply Google how many possible chess moves there are. It's more than the number of atoms in the universe. Ruling out illegal moves, it's something like 10^40 possible moves.
@@rahulramkissoon Alright, let's say the validity of your statement about the vast number of possible moves in chess is true. I think you're missing the point. I'm talking about the dynamics of a timed versus untimed match. In a timed setting, the pressure to decide on the optimal move within a constrained timeframe intensifies. This doesn't necessarily imply inferiority; rather, it highlights the challenge of making critical decisions under time constraints. My point is that in a timed game, where seconds count, the margin for deep analysis of each move is significantly reduced compared to its untimed counterpart. This reduction in available time can increase the risk of suboptimal choices, not due to a lack of skill, but simply because there isn't enough time to thoroughly evaluate all potential moves. Do you get?
@@Henry_Wilder So if we played a game without a timer. At what point do you think would be too long for a person to play a move? 1 hour? 24 hours? 1 year? You could analyze a position for months. I agree that time constraints aren't for everyone. But we have to atleast agree on the time limit per move, else you could be waiting years
We're all glad you signed, Michael! Today is your birthday where I live, so happy birthday, sir! As a literature and professional writing student, you're one of my greatest inspirations. Much love from Australia! 💝
Yes, true
I was at Wadham 92-95 so this was incredibly nostalgic for me. Hapoy days! A very accurate picture of life at Wadham, although I don't remember us speaking as posh as this lot! Maybe I just didn't notice.
Full full now online: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqKbsrmPkcypips.html
🙏
Thank you so much for this wonderful video! The last quotation from Man in the High Castle was very moving.
Computation is not intelligence. AI is just an oxymoron
Thank you! Someone finally says it. There is no intelligence behind AI. It's not even artifical stupidity. All AI is a more powerful form of computation.
Very interesting and well-presented. Thank you. Best wishes from New Zealand.
literally DOZENS of computers!!!
A blast from the past! Would you consider putting the whole video up? I’d love to see it and today’s students could learn about the prehistoric times when we left notes on each other’s doors as no one had mobile phones…
A few people have asked so we're definitely considering it.
Full video now online! kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqKbsrmPkcypips.html
how does this not have more views? extremely well-presented information
I'm so glad. My long-awaited expectation, finally, this wonderful scientist paid attention to this question. Since the distant 1997, I have been very interested in this question. but there was no opportunity to do science. I wish you great luck. I advise you to conduct experiments with acetabulary, acting on it, and finding mechanisms that disrupt the work on the formation of the cytoskeleton. It will be necessary to analyze and then try to change the cytoskeleton in a targeted way. And then it will be possible to get close to the technology of genetic programming of the cytoskeleton.
SHAWAAAANDA!!! 🎉
Thanks for the beautiful and informative presentation. Superb.
Is anyone else getting no audio from the video? I'm getting subtitles which means it must have had audio at the upload stage? Fascinating video, either way. Thanks
@Lewdog audio is working on our end. The audio does seem to have been mixed to pan more to one side than the other so if you're using mono sound settings or you only have 1 working headphone side, there could be problems there.
Ah yes it was that. Appreciate the reply@@WadhamCollegeOxford
I Ching also appears in His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. It is used by a scientist to communicate with the angels of that universe, who live in different worlds.
"Derivative copyright law" The reason, the word of God is well preserved in the KJV 1611, by the Royal Crown of England, to preserve authenticity for over 400 years now. May God keep you blessed. All glory to God Almighty!
Seems fallacious, thought time limit can't give you a draw in chess?
You can still stalemate and get a draw or agree to a draw regardless of time.
Good!
Good!
To transcend consiousness un must combine words, numbers and symbols to build the bridge to the unconsious CGJ
Very interesting, I learnt a lot. Thanks.
Love Sir Penrose
I created a new stock market based on the worth () of your life. #POW 2567 Feb 27
I was really bad at chess. So I settled for solving black hole equations, consciousness, and time travel. 😂
😂
Thanks for sharing! Check out some interesting facts about the King James Bible kzread.info/dash/bejne/hG2aztSAp5uYaZc.html
Penrose states that Gödel’s incompleteness theorem is an indication that our consciousness is not computational. But I don’t see how Gödel’s theorem necessarily excludes computational processes being involved. Gödel’s theorem just shows that we are able to identify truths that apply within formal systems but which are not derivable by the rules of those systems. Machine learning algorithms also do this all the time - Natural Language Processing is probably the most well known example, which is able to compile facts about language syntax and semantics without using any rules about language whatsoever. There’s nothing inherently non-computational about this sort of process.
Greetings. I might be wrong but from my understanding/perspective I don't think you understood Penrose's inference.
@crabb9966 Oh right. What specifically do you think I’ve misunderstood?
@@hihello-sx1sx"what it really said" "whatever rules we have" "able to transcend" your argument is rigid and doesn't explain what he is getting at, well this is from my perspective. In my opinion most proponents of computer brains should take a step back to a neutral position as it is merely an extrapolation with no sound basis, the way I see it. Materialistic world view doesn't even work philosophically.
@@hihello-sx1sx he said you could transcend this systems whatever the rules might be, don't take the theorem at face value. Think about the alternatvie implication.
Penrose probably confused Gödel’s theorem with the Church's theorem. Or maybe these two are related in a way that I don't comprehend.
With the multitude of bibles that have been translated over the centuries this should be easy to find. Can someone tell me what was God's first creation?
Suo Figlio il Cristo Gesù!! 🏹
My compliments for a splendid presentation
So do I. God doesn’t exist 😊 in reality, but exist only in religious belief. 😊
The more info that's out there, the more misinformation is out there as well. King James Preface clearly states this matter.