LOW LEVEL HEAVEN / DCS helicopter flight training
LOW LEVEL HEAVEN / DCS helicopter flight training
German and English Videos
Hallo
Erst Ende 2015 bin ich auf der Suche nach einem Simulator für Hubschrauber auf DCS gestoßen.
Ich war sofort begeistert. Dank super Tutorials hier auf KZread ist mir der Einstig auch sehr Leicht gefallen.
Nicht ganz ohne Grund kommt der Hubschrauber jedoch etwas zu kurz. Diese Lücke möchte ich mit diesem Kanal versuchen zumindest etwas zu schließen.
Hey
At the end of 2015 I was looking for a PC Helicopter flight Simulator.
Surprised by the quality of graphics and flight model I have chosen DCS Digital Combat Simulator. Because of many excellent Tutorials on KZread and instant help from the DCS Community (Forum) I had an easy access to my first Module, the Bell UH-1.
Because there are many questions about helicopter theory and practice I decided to start these Chanel, trying to close the gap as good as I am able to.
Пікірлер
Love this mod!! Cant wait to try it again this week. I am so very grateful for the devs
congrats on getting a release date!
I loaded version 1.2 which truly helped the flight model, but I can't use weapons. As DCS is starting, I get a Msg telling me the weapons will be denied. Any ideas for correcting this?
Never used weapons. But besides the mod and the Vietnam asset pack, ther is another folder related to the use of weapons. You find the information on the download side, or refer to the ED Forum. You also may contact Toby here on KZread, he is the guy commenter my last video as usles trash. 😂 But he will help you out for sure, he is a nice guy besides our personal relationship. 😉
Yes they are necessary... 🐦 ❤
Always a good idea to have some. 😂
wanted bad to fly this months ago, but controlling it was so bad I gave up.. might have to revisit.
Thank you. Much better
where can i find the campaign files?
The Campaign is not released jet. It is waiting since November and ED promised now end of June. I just work on the Tips to use the time, so they are available from the Start. Mission Handbook and description also available as PDF files. You find the Link in the description to the Handbook video.
@@lowlevelheaven ok thank you for the reply
I've really enjoyed Version 1.1 but cannot find the download location for the update 1.2. Can you tell me where it is. I've looked on DCS and the Low-Level-Heaven Disdcord. Excellent and informative vids. Great job!
github.com/tobi-be/DCS-OH-6A/releases/tag/v1.2
Don't put too much weight on the Informations you find here. The last video was nonsense.
1.2 is a much improved over 1.1 but on landing I found it still a bit difficult to handle when enter the vortex or ground effect phase.
Seems you are in a time zone matching. Feel free to contact me here or via DISCORD (discord.gg/CXCA7rf) for a dual Flightlesson in the Huey, Kiowa, or any other multi-crew helicopter in DCS. It is usually simply to know how-
Vielen Dank! ;)
Thanks for the info on the book “Low level Hell” and for your settings! Really liking this mod!
A new video for the version 1.2 with new settings will be online within the next 48 hours. 👍😉
In version 1.2 of the flight model, many things have been fixed, and the OH-6 flies great now. Still some fine tuning needed, but now it is really funny, and I set back my collective to 100% 😎
Finally I can hover, take off and land in one piece. 😊
nice
What is the VN Asset Pack for and how to use it?
It provides some Vietnam Style buildings, vehicles and other stuff in the mission Editor, so Mission Builder have more opportunity's building immersive surroundings.
how can i be a member of you're group? i'm from Belgium
Join us on DISCORD forum.dcs.world/topic/244549-black-angels-low-level-heaven/ Or send me a direct message in the ED Forum so I can send you the details and information. Being a nice guy is the only requirement. 😉
Just tried the 1.2 and I now can hover (barely) and take off but landing is a different story and I yet have to bring her back in one piece because as soon as I enter the translational lift this thing just spins out of control and crashes. Kudos to the developers 🙂
Thank you for the information. Missed 1.2 until now, but will check it out.
If you ENTER ETL when you try to land you might misunderstand ETL or you are doing a very strange approach.
I did approach it way too fast as I usually do for other helis (tactical landing). Slowing her down helps a lot and the 1.2 FM is way much improved . Thank you!!!
Great flying, I'm not sure I'll ever fly so precisely... I've noticed that I have to use much more left pedal for my takeoff to stay straight - was there some fly model change during those 4 years?
Flight model changes 12 months ago. It is worse than it was. You are welcome to join us for training and mission flights.
Thanx
Great opportunity to get back to this chopper. Thanks for the manual.
I certainly don't want to offend anyone, but there are 2 fundamental things that strongly influence the discussion and why we should be very open to other opinions, even very different ones. The first is that with all the different flight controls that are used, whether $20 joysticks, $300 HOTAS or $1500 helicopter controls, there are very different impressions and therefore different approaches to solutions, all of which are very individual but not wrong. However, I myself am of the opinion that semi-professional flight controls probably achieve the most realistic result. The second thing is, and I speak from the experience of a flight instructor who has taught several players here in DCS, is that the understanding of what it means to fly helicopters often has little to do with the specific helicopter characteristics. The helicopter domain below 100 feet and slower than 50 knots is avoided as much as possible by many people who come from a fixed wing flying background and the surprise is great when they see what it's all about and how relatively easy it is to learn if you focus on it and know what the procedures should be. I think the discussion and the exchange of different opinions is great and important, but we should not ignore or devalue opinions, nor should we overestimate opinions. For example, I know some RL pilots who find DCS quite difficult and come to some opinions that I find hard to understand. And I myself have often been wrong in life.
I read a comment on a different video that explained the problem exactly. It's like there is one point of lift above the helicopter and it's attached to the rotor by a string. When you move the stick that point of lift moves and drags the string along.
These results are very similar to a lot of problems you get on R/C helis if you haven't set up the gyro properly. Yaw on throttle change, drifting heading, etc. I reckon I could handle it. :P
That's not a "problem" - that's how you fly the real deal, and that's why flying a helicopter is noticeably harder than an airplane: you up the collective, the blades AoA increases, leading to the increase in their drag AND the torque reaction yaw - you counter that with more pedal AND more gas, that in turn demands even more pedal to compensate. Oh, and all that not taking the CYCLIC into account... Helo pilots learn to move all four controls *simultaneously* in the right proportions subconsciously to make the maneuvers seem effortless. Someone with no prior experience (or with some ArmA / Squad "experience") will most likely end up with the rotor hub buried into the ground if they become foolish enough to attempt taking off "while nobody is looking".
@@getsideways7257 Yes, but not like in the video. Not for modern craft.
If you think this has a lot of buttons and switches then don't go anywhere near the Mil Mi-24.
Or the Apache. Or heck, even the Huey
herding cattle with the OH6, that would be a great mod! edit: you've got quite a pair of eyes my friend Im not even sure I knew this sim HAD cows!
Unfortunately, they are only static objects. If they could also run away...
@@lowlevelheaven I have returned to tell you they updated the OH6 flight model and its great!!!!!
I was so excited thinking someone scripted such a mission - kind of like the ASW missions are done. Well... Maybe some other time.
@@getsideways7257 if you could some how make infantry look like a cow you could script it! haha idk how modding works i wish i did.
Despite some problems with the flight model, I really enjoy the challenge so far, and I believe it's a blast to fly on a good setup.
4:27 - You'll have to be really cowful. :) Und gerne mehr Videos!
I agreed with some other posters that this thing is almost unflyable unless you have the right settings in your cyclic and pedals. I could take off and fly away but yet I cannot bring her back in one piece. The module in MSFS is soo much easier to handle IMO.
No doubt about it, the flight model need some attention, but the comparison with MSFS is far from being a valid one. NSFS makes it a little bit to easy, which of cause boosts sales. 😉
Exactly my findings. After being able to takeoff and land just any aircraft in MSFS, I tried the same in DCS - and failed, failed, failed. :D
@@JoernR That's why military train with DCS. 😉 Come and join our Black Angels helicopter squad. We train along FAA standards and fly missions for fun. I also like to invite you to some dual training in DCS (for free 🤠). One or both will enable you to fly helicopters in DCS within a realy short amount of time.
@@lowlevelheaven - Wir kennen uns doch. :) Aber ich schaue gerne mal wieder zum Blamieren vorbei. 😄
@@JoernR sorry, aber ich habe schon lange den Überblick verloren. 😂🤠
Huge praise for making these fantastics tutorials. 🙏 I'm keen to start flying helis in DCS and this is perfect for a beginner. I was wondering what controllers you use for cyclic, collective and pedals? Thanks!
You are welcome to join our European helicopter squad Black Angels. You also may contact my for some dual flight training. This will boost your efforts like an hypersonic rocket.
having flown a 500, this FM is unrealistically unstable. the 500 is KNOWN for its stability, this is now how it should fly in my opinion.
I wouldn't go quite that far, but as mentioned in the video, it's still too early to judge the flight model. It's also important to remember that as a community MOD, fun is probably the most important thing. But of course you're right. The 500 is a brilliant mix of stability and responsiveness. Many helicopter modules in DCS are far removed from reality in terms of stability in hover. The Apache, but also the Mi-24, which I haven't flown for a long time, all make life more difficult than it is for no reason.
@@lowlevelheaven yes absolutely I respect the mod and I think its a great thing, but if we're going to critique the flight model lets be accurate for sure
@@lowlevelheaven You are forgetting that there is a huge difference between sitting inside the real deal and sitting at the screen without experiencing any of the forces - of course it will be much more difficult to control a helicopter with no feedback apart from the visual and the aural ones. Think of it another way. There is a ton of motorcycle games and sims alike out there, but only one of them allows to almost directly take control of the handlebars (ok, there's actually three: GP Bikes, MX Bikes and MX Simulator). Many bikers (and simmers) hate this mode and opt for the silly angular "autopilot" that is still the de-facto standard for controlling a virtual bike on PC... Guess why? Because it can get bloody DIFFICULT to simply stay on two wheels. As a biker you simply refuse to admit the fact that doing something like that is indeed very difficult, since in reality your body basically acts on its own to balance out the bike - thus in a sense you kind of are equipped with an "autopilot" in reality too. But if you wonder how it truly is to balance a bike with mostly steering alone looking at the picture for momentum clues, there is only one way. And at the end of the day bikes and helicopters are very much similar in how their stability drops with lowering speed.
@@getsideways7257 I agree. That's why I did not talk about the flight model but instead how to deal best with the actual behavior. Besides the difference when "flying" on a PC. Instrument indications and correlations between maneuvers and for example engine behavior can be close to reality, but it takes time to stet the parameters. Also the smal progressive delays between control input and aircraft reaction is posible to display. Look at the UH-1 or the Mi-8 for example. If you learn to fly the Huey in DCS in accordance to training standards you will be able to control a real helicopter under supervision. Of cause in a real one many things are different, not only the possibility to damage something or kill yourself. Same with motorcycle.
@@lowlevelheaven By the way, don't you find loading and balance in DCS to be a little bit too static? For example, fuel feels like it's contained in some kind of a large spherical inflatable balloon located somewhere close to the CoG - so once you start expending it, the "balloon" simply deflates over time. I didn't pay much attention to that until I tried the paid UH-1 for X-Plane (and I'm not a fan of X-Plane) and also some very advanced (and expensive) Phantoms for FSX as compared to the recent Heatblur's offering.
Excellent suggestions! I'm still finding take off and landing a little squirrely, but my tendency to use the collective, as I do in other DCS choppers, was causing me to swing wildly out of control. Now that I resist that, and only use the collective when I absolutely have to, I can fly the thing much better. I've eased off on using the collective as part of a 180 turn, for example, after a gun or rocket run. I take it more gently and deal with altitude by pointing the nose downwards rather than easing off on the collective. I had noticed the wild torque swings but I assumed that was a symptom rather than a cause of the uncontrollability. It works much better now, cheers.
I am not following you on this one. How would one lift off that weight off the ground without using the collective. Maybe you sort of baby or micro manage the collective?
@@hueyfoo - Of course he uses collective for takeoff and landing, but tries to refrain from using collective for anything else.
Vielen Dank für die exzellenten Erklärungen, kurz und kompakt erläutert, einfach TOP👍
I am not a helicopter pilot, but I used to work at an airport and knew a few pilots that flew the Hughes 500C and they would often mention that the tail had a tendency to swing left and right. When the 500D came out with a more pointy nose, it would swing up and down.
If you watch real life videos of approaching helicopters, many of them have such a tendency. That's not the point. It is how strong this tendency is and if it's easy to control or not. Ask them if they woud fly the thing if they have regular the feeling of loosing control. Of cause they're not. So as I mentioned it is not about the flight model itself, if or if not thought on some behavior. It is just about control ability.
Thanks, thought it was just me. Almost all helo mods have this light feeling. The uh-1 module nails the feeling of weight. The uh-60 mod is pretty good too. I'll bet they get a ton of feedback and it improves fast!
Unfortunately no. The guy working on it says it's how he wants it and is not changing anything.
@@RedTail1-1 Oh well, still can't beat the price. And, Kiowa SOON!!!
@@RedTail1-1??? That is simply wrong. Why do you think so?
With the tail rotor on the left this helicopter should not require the right peddle and left cyclic for straight flight, it should naturally sit left skid low in straight and level flight. The flight model is taken from the wrong helicopter
It doesn't matter on Whitch side the tail rotor is mounted. It is the direction he pushes, and the helicopters main rotorshaft is usually tilted 1 degree against it. But I am not deep enough in the flight model to have an opinion to the pedals jet.
Da bin ja froh, nicht der einzige zu sein, der ein "bisschen" Schwierigkeiten mit diesem Schraubflügler hat. :) Wo flattern Sie da eigentlich genau herum, Herr G.? Ist das noch Kaukasus oder schon Normandie? Oder gar Kola?
Ist tatsächlich die Normandie. Ein Flugplatz etwas NE von Paris. Aktuell die wohl schönste Helicopter Karte zusammen mit Syrien. Was die Schwierigkeiten anbelangt, da kann möglicherweise etwas nachgebessert werden. Gebe auch außerhalb der Staffel Flugtraining für Helos nach US FAA Standards.
@lowlevelheaven - Ich weiß, wir hatten schon auf der Basis im Kaukasus im Huey das Vergnügen - Landei mit politischer Übereinstimmung. :) Ich wollte mich nächste Tage mal wieder an eurem Parcours versuchen, nachdem ich mich jetzt so langsam an die Pedale gewöhnt habe. Normandie, also doch! Ich war mir nicht ganz sicher, weil mir ein Militärfahrzeug am Boden zu modern vorkam. Ja, die Karte ist klasse - auch viele Brücken zum Unterfliegen (hab gestern noch versehentlich eine in London abgerissen (mit OH-6A)), die Wahrzeichen sehen toll aus, unglaublich viel zu entdecken und zahllose Stellen für idiotische Landungen. 😁
I set the collective saturation to about 70 which limits the total torque. Really smoothed things out. Cyclic I have no curve, but I matched the cyclic movement to the saturation in both axes. Very little saturation was needed. WW Orion HOTAS with no extension. I basically reversed my throttles to become a collective. I do agree to raise the collective smoothly and fly as smooth as possible while anticipating what it is you want to do. Violent over controlling and over torquing will decrease your enjoyment exponentially. Stay on the anti torque pedals-they’re not a rudder. Power on requires one pedal movement and off requires another. The thing flies great at 80 speed with torque at the 6 o’clock position. There is trim which when cruising comes in handy. You must zero out your trim-use the controls overlay as a tool. Nice video. Underbar. Danke.
Great. I have one question about your settings. With the collective saturation set to 70, you made him less responsive? This woud make absolute sence for me. I made it more reactive because of my muscle memory and the way I like to Chace around obstacles, Whitch in fact makes things worse.
This is all good until you want full collective eg at the end of a full down autorotation
@@andrewbergman9315 Ther is always a price to pay. 😂👍
In testing I found 70% too low a saturation for the collective maximum - I was unable to adequately carry out a normal autorotation. I found 80% felt like I still had reasonable authority in collective for the final decel and landing pull. I reduced anti-torque pedals to 75% to make it more challenging and feel like I was running out of pedal, bring on a bit of LTE. This approach is reminds me a bit of reducing pedal authority in a multi-engine aircraft when practicing Vmca recovery with the instructor blocking the pedal with his foot.
You should use curves to adjust sensitivity, otherwise you sacrifice control authority. There is also an issue with all DCS helicopters (including this one) that the trim reduces control authority in the direction opposite the trim, which of course is not how it works in real life. Most DCS choppers have an imaginary "Trim Reset" function to help you get trim back to default/center instantly, which this module really needs due to the slowness of the trim system. (Which is realistic, but again, the real thing doesn't limit your control movement in the direction opposite the trim.) (Note that this isn't the case with FFB sticks and the DCS choppers with Force Trim, which work as they do in reality and don't have to have that fake recentering motion after trimming to a new position. My FFB stick isn't working at the moment, so I can't say if FFB works correctly in this mod.) And your tail rotor curve is the wrong way, you're making it MORE sensitive in the center, not less. I think you've got the meanings of the axes mixed up.
Will check my tail rotor curve. You sound like an actual Helicopter Pilot, thank yo for sharing your insides.
@@lowlevelheaven I am not but I've been flight simming since 1987 and am a software developer. Also, the DCS choppers have taught me to fly helicopters to a point that I bet I could at least survive if I was in the real thing and the pilot died on me. ;)
@@lowlevelheaven - Für mich sieht deine Heckrotorkurve völlig korrekt aus, ich würde sogar noch ein bisschen mehr dämpfen.
@@AdmiralQuality Pleas don't try it. But you will be able to control and land the helicopter in such a case if your nerves cooperate and you do not loose your mind. out of the fear to die. 👍 If you like to examine your pilot skills, you are always welcome to our AIRMAN program where we check your skills in DCS in accordance with the FAA tet standars.
@@lowlevelheaven Well, I won't intentionally kill any pilots but if one happens to die and I'm in the front seat, I'm taking it! I grew up on Canadian Air Force bases. Got lots of rides in Kiowas, Twin Hueys and Chinooks. The best one was the front seat of a Kiowa, following a winding stream through the woods at below tree-top level and doing "return to target" maneuvers. (My Dad - a flight engineer on Chinooks - told me to ask him for one. My mother and sister in the back were terrified but I loved every second!) And point me at your program! I just might be into that!
Flight is not an issue, but hovering and landing are.
NO takeoff and no landing without using the collective. 😉 So try to do it as slow and smooth as possible. The rule for hovering any helicopter is as follows: "You do it best when you do nothing at all."
@@lowlevelheavenwill practice this way more
Although accuracy is always preferred, I do love how challenging this helicopter is.
But even Fire Fighters avoiding backdrafts. 😂 And the Torque is some kind of repeading flash over.🤠
@@lowlevelheaven you really had to stretch it to make those jokes work but I appreciate the effort! 😂😂
Hello, is there a function to set a trimforce (trimforce releasebutton? Best regards
Out of the readme file. ### Trim position There is a neutral position of the controls for each flight attitude of the OH-6A. This trim position depends on the load, on the weather and on the center of gravity which maybe shifted due to loadouts. Try to find this trim position and only make small control deflections around this position. For take off the cyclic should be left and aft and you need a good amount of left pedal. It is not really needed without a force feedback stick, besides the possibility to keep your joystick centered in case he has a spring you need to fight against.
No, the Loach didn't have Force Trim, but I've heard the developer is going to add it anyway. (What we REALLY need is Trim-Reset - an imaginary function but necessary for non-FFB sticks, and hence, all other DCS choppers have it.)
@@AdmiralQuality totally agree.
So ein tolles Mod! Der Pilot sieht viel besser aus als beim UH-60L. Man muss richtig an der Steuerelementen Arbeite um das Kücken in der Luft zu halten. 😁
Video darüber worauf beim Fliegen zu achten ist kommt wohl noch heute oder morgen. ENG A video about what to consider when flying will probably be released today or tomorrow.
@@lowlevelheaven 👍
warum bekomme ich gerade übelste Magnum P.I. vibes?! 😂😂😂
Das wird noch besser. Neben dem Video zum aktuellen Flugmodell ist eines über Scouting und eines über Cattle round up. 🦬
Nice story :) ... I was already a subscriptor, since the days of your DCS UH1 campaign
Very nice
Get a good mic I'd suggest. Good stuff nevertheless.
Used the one on the head set because usually I do no live video. But if I do Mord of them I need to think about a different mic. Thanks for your feedback.
Genau diese Sachen machen mir mit der Gazelle einen Riesenspaß. Nur siehts bei mir noch lange nicht so elegant aus. :D Vor allem beim flotten Stopp bei etwa 8:02 dachte ich: "Was, das geht?" - Offensichtlich! 😄
That's cool
get to da choppa! the gazelle one over der
Fliegt sie immer noch rückwärts über 70 km/h ohne Tendenz sich zu drehen? Gyroscopic Moment in der Kurve ist immer noch nicht zu finden? Gruß
Ja das tut sie wohl. Und ja sie ist nicht perfekt. Aber mal ehrlich aus welchem Grund fliegt man rückwärts schneller als schnellen hover?
@@lowlevelheaven Es geht nicht um Grund, warum man dies und jenes tun/nicht tun soll, es geht immer noch um FM. Solche aerodynamische Eigenschaften bilden einen Raum fürs „simulierte Realität“ wo drin alle Flugmanöver durchgeführt werden. Von einer Seite bilden diese Eigenschaften die Grenze der Fähigkeiten der Maschine (zwingen den Piloten zu lernen damit umzugehen), von anderer - vermitteln dadurch eine gewisse „Charakter“, der für unsere Endorphins sorgt. Wenn, aber, die Maschine sich hinter der Normaleigenschaften problemlos steuern lässt, dann vergeht mir sofort „das Geschmack“ vom fliegen. In so vielen Jahren könnten sich die Entwickler doch tiefer in die Materie und Aerodynamik vom Hubschrauber begeben und nicht nur neue Scripts auf alte Flugmechanik anzuhängen.
@@redrex8003 Als Pilot kann ich dir sagen, ich hab nicht eine Sekunde an die Dinge verschwendet von denen du redest. Als Fluglehrer kann ich dir sagen, jeder halbwegs normal motorisch entwickelte kann mit Übung einen Hubschrauber fliegen. Das schwierige ist nicht das Fliegen an sich, es geht darum immer die richtigen Entscheidungen zu treffen. In einen, und Ich halte DCS durchaus für einen Simulator wird viel mehr hinein interpretiert als da tatsächlich ist. 😉😎
@@lowlevelheaven Durch tägliche Flugstunden im Realleben gibst du eventuell weniger Wert in das wie das Ding „fliegt“, sondern mehr in das wie sie geflogen wird. Verständlich. Ich benutze VR und ein FFBeast-Stick um ein möglichst realistisches Feedback von der Simulation zu bekommen, stolpere, aber, immer über ein unnatürliches Verhalten, was bei mir das Gefühl„drin zu sein“ sofort zerstört. Von einem Flugsimulator erwartet man, dass zumindest das Fliegen ordentlich simuliert wird. Wobei DCS ist immer noch Digital COMBAT Simulator - eventuell geht es hier tatsächlich um richtige Entscheidungen, wie du sagst, vom Fliegen war nicht die Rede.))))
@@redrex8003 Unabhängig von DCS nehmen wir uns oft selbst den Spaß weil wir zu viel erwarten. Dabei ist eine Enttäuschung immer nur eine nicht erfüllte Erwartung. Freut mich, dass du dabei den Humor nicht verloren hast, auch wenn es Galgenhumor sein könnte. 😉