The Agravics Speeds are eerily similar to the Pulsar Trail Pro 2s when I hold them side-by-side.
@RowOfMushyTiTКүн бұрын
Have you guys tried the S/LAB Ultra Francois D'Haene Edition? Almost zero info on this shoe out there.
@benjaminstone8097Күн бұрын
Nice review, as always. Learning a lot from your level of detail. Would you guys ever review any of the arcterex trail shoes?
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
Thanks for watching! They're definitely a brand that is on our radar and for sure in the review future 👍
@SuccessSeeker792 күн бұрын
My god guys 46 minutes to tell about 2 shoes let’s go here
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
😂 😂 we could easily spend an hour talking about each shoe! We'll take however much time we need to answer all the hard hitting questions 👍
@SuccessSeeker79Күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace I hear that no hate. I no a lot of use watch other channels bc they tell what you are telling us but in like 10 minutes
@cwengelking2 күн бұрын
Great review! I like these a lot but find the Speed Ultras to be a lot more nimble on technical trails. Brett, saw you on the signup for Waldo next week? You planning on these, the speed ultras or something else?
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
I also found myself feeling more nimble in the Speed Ultras, but when I slowed down to 100k/100mi paces, I felt better in the TNF. Perhaps I'm just subconsciously trying to justify why I'd need both 😂. I think I'll be wearing the Hoka TX3 at Waldo. Hope the smoke clears out a bit more in the next 10 days 🤞
@cwengelking21 сағат бұрын
@@ConversationalPace I think having both TNF amd speed ultras in the quiver makes a ton of sense. Heck, even a couple other super shoes too. For me the real test is whether ANOTHER shoe purchase justifies the shopping arms race it triggers with my wife, which btw she wins every time 🤣🙃
@Acejustforalaugh2 күн бұрын
What about the Cascadia 18 ? 😮
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
Cascadia 18 just came out! It's just an upper update over the 17, so going to be very similar feeling to last year's model 👍
@AcejustforalaughКүн бұрын
@ConversationalPace Well, get on it ! Haha, only kidding. I hear the midsole has been softened a tad also. Peace !
@winter46ercmart3 күн бұрын
I am loving the Vectiv 2's, and your review is spot on. They really save the legs on long days, and the Dream foam is ideal for trails. I did find that they run a little small though. I normally wear a 12 in everything, but these felt tight on the toes, so I returned the 12s for a 12 1/2. Very happy I did. I am using them Saturday for a 55k race on the Northville-Placid Trail in NY.
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
Best of luck out there!!
@winter46ercmartКүн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace Thanks man!!
@mhilb3 күн бұрын
Is this a podcast somewhere? I can’t find any CP episodes on my apple pods??
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
At the moment all the videos are just on KZread because there is such a visual aspect to them. Written reviews will be coming soon though 👍
@johnnyt6734 күн бұрын
My feet feel all banged up after 30k in the Adidas Agravic. Have done 80k runs in the Vectiv Pro and Pro2 and much better. I think the Vectiv Pro1 is a little lighter. Probably why Katie prefers the 1s...
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
The Vectiv Pro 1 upper also fit with a little more volume in the forefoot
@rschreck8764 күн бұрын
Happy Finn mentioned not being very breathable. That killed Topo for me. Only pair I had were still damp the morning after my only run in them.
@ConversationalPace4 күн бұрын
Yeah definitely such a huge bummer to grab your shoes the next morning and have them still be wet!
@gabrielmarias9725 күн бұрын
Hi guys, any recomendation about sizing with the pro 2? I usually use 28cm in nike or salomon, that its 10us or 44eu, but in the north face 28 looks 43eu so not sure .. Thanks!
@ConversationalPace4 күн бұрын
That is interesting they're calling a US 10 a 43. I thought that length wise, my US 10 Vectiv Pro 2 felt the same as my last few Nike trail shoes in the same US 10
@gabrielmarias9724 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPacethanks so will fit great, and did you notice blisters or disconfort because the lateral carbon wings? I read some north face athlets cut them a bit
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
The only time I noticed the carbon wings underfoot was when taking a switchback really hard and my foot would slide to the edge of the shoe. It was really only for a step or two though, so never bugged me. My foot is also slightly on the narrower side.
@ItsTylerWing5 күн бұрын
Wasn’t totally sure I would like super shoes but after running a race and a few training runs in the tecton 2.5, I’m drinking the Kool aid. It’s crazy how much faster your pace is at the same level of effort output. I’m sure not all of them will be the same but it’s going to be a wild next couple years for trial footwear.
@ConversationalPace4 күн бұрын
I think there are still doing to be lots of shoes that miss the mark of 'super', but I think both is Vectiv Pro 2 and TX2.5 should be in the super category, even if they feel pretty different. Trail shoes are about to get weird (in an awesome way) in the next few years!
@grennangoeshiking5 күн бұрын
Random question: Do you know of any east coast shoe reviewers? I love you guys, and the content, but the perspective is a little off for us on the Beast Coast. Looking for more technical terrain running shoes. Thanks. And please keep this up!! ❤❤
@ConversationalPace4 күн бұрын
That is a great question and one I don't immediately know the answer to. Surely there has got to be one or two out there!
@simonpollock27995 күн бұрын
had the same inside heel material tearing and lug wear-down issues in the vectiv enduris 3s. and the same pros: great volume, light upper, surface ctrl outsole plenty sticky. wish they lasted longer. loved the feel. would buy NF shoes on sale, but not going for full price when they wear out after 170-200 miles
@ConversationalPaceКүн бұрын
It's interesting how the material across their heel collar isn't very durable. Doesn't seem to negatively affect the shoe, other than just looking a little ugly. Hopefully TNF is continuing to work on outsole rubbers and patterns to increase durability
@coryedwards82765 күн бұрын
Excited to try the Ultra
@andrew_macneilage5 күн бұрын
Really happy to see an improvement in the upper on the V2. I loved the V1, but i had 2 issues. First, the mesh was too open and dust got in real easy. Second, the tab at the back gave me a blister on my Achilles on anything over about 15km. Looks like both issues are sorted now. I tend tonrun on forest trails more, so hopefully less wear on the lugs. I love TNF trail shoes. The enduris 2 and 3 are fantastic. They just work for me and how i run.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
The Enduris is one of the most underrated shoes out there! Talking to some of the designers at the running event this past November, one of the main reasons for the upper material change was to not let as much dust in 👍
@mokefish81265 күн бұрын
Loving the shoe porn b roll you guys have going in this review!
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Hah thanks for watching!
@zacclowes49996 күн бұрын
Are you still doing a prodigio review?
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Coming up next!
@Lag106 күн бұрын
Are there any instances under 100 miles where you would take the Zegama 2 over this? PS. It is a shame most sizes aren’t available anywhere and north face webchat wouldn’t give any insight about more arriving.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
I'd take the Zegama 2 over more technical terrain that's pretty slow going. I feel more comfortable over a really long time (like 24+ hours) in the Zegama 👍
@kevinhub576 күн бұрын
Hopefully the Sky is coming soon as a follow up. I'm more interested in that as a super shoe than this.
@TrailrunnerTroy6 күн бұрын
Me too as that is the most promising North Face trial shoe in years.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
We'll look into it!
@cheynevanarsdale82946 күн бұрын
Did you guys get your hands on the Tecton X 2.5? Would love to hear your thoughts 🙏
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Didn't get our hands on them and gone forever 😭
@zacharygarner94256 күн бұрын
The wings tore at the fold on the first run for me on one shoe, but I didn’t notice a difference between the shoe with the wings just glued on and the one with the wing still attached to the plate even after running 100 + miles
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
I have a crack all the way through the medial right side wing and can't tell a difference between that and the left side either 😅
@Nosam80366 күн бұрын
Loving the trend of black & white trail shoes. Also, can’t find a men’s size 9.5 in stock anywhere except eBay 🙃
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Hopefully there's more stock on the way soon
@runswithdogs30696 күн бұрын
Once the Tecton X3 is tested and reviewed we need a CP super shoe showdown episode!
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
100% doing this comparison video!
@2leggedprophet5 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace Can’t wait!
@tommilam63206 күн бұрын
I have the first version, and I ended up cutting the wings off, much better ride after that. I tried the second version on, but to Finn’s comment, it felt more narrow, and so elected not to keep them. Agree on the outsole wearing down super quick and I’m not even at 100 miles in them. The upper on version one is still very comfortable and that’s never been a issue. For a 100 miler, the one thing that I would be concerned about is Power hiking the hills and or rocky steps etc, the midsole feels too squishy for me and end up fighting against it when not running. In the end some things worked well, just might be more designed for certain terrain and not CO technical trails I’m in most of the time.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Yeah I didn't think this is the greatest shoe for loose trail. Lug depth is not deep 😂
@TrailrunnerTroy6 күн бұрын
Agree with your self-appointed definition of “trail super shoe” ;-) Or at least what a super shoe is supposed to be. It’s supposed to make you run faster! For me, respectfully, the Vectiv series still isn’t a real super shoe by that definition - but the Hoka EVO Jawz still is, by way of illustration. TNF Flight Vectiv Pro 2 is a tall, highly rockered and expensive shoe with good but not great midsole foam and a decent outsole. The upper is better than the original. But it’s not even marginally faster than other tall expensive premium shoes. I look forward to a true super shoe from The North Face! Maybe start with a Vectiv Sky with better foam and even less weight. Bring on the Hoka Tecton X 3!
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
All the jawz gave me were blisters 😂😂
@ThatFlowState6 күн бұрын
Unfortunately I do hate the wings. I bought the first version (on sale for 150) and like a lot about the shoe. However if I take them on anything off camber/more technical the wings start to bother me. I pot some inov8 Boomerang insoles in them and that has helped but for me I wouldn't take them beyond 20 miles. While I do find that carbon plated trail shoes can be fun for shorter races/workouts I am highly sceptical that they offer any benefit to non-elite runners. As far as I'm aware there has been no scientific evidence published that any of these shoes do confer an advantage. But even if we assume that they do improve running economy, its importance in trail ultra running is probably far less of a deciding factor than in marathon running. Given that most trail ultra runners will not run the whole course of a 100k or 100 mi, it is extremely unlikely that running economy is the limiting factor in regards to race performance.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
It's going to be hard for any brands to publish studies that their shoes are faster on trails as that is a very large spectrum of dirt types, elevation, technicality, etc. Some brands are trying to optimize a shoe for a particular style of trail like the Adidas Agravic speed ultra around the western states course. I'm not sure if other brands are being that specific though. I agree, it's really going to come down to what the shoe is optimized for and if that also matches the type of running and racing you do
@michaelhowell89906 күн бұрын
Why the highlighter colors?!
@airbromez6 күн бұрын
Damnit I just bought 2 new pairs of Zegamas…got to explain to my gf on why I need another pair of shoes now 😅
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
as long as you wear them all out, it's not wasted money 😂😂
@aaronsmith29296 күн бұрын
It checks so many boxes but that much lug wear at 120 miles on a $250 shoe makes me hesitant.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Yeah definitely grip of diminishing returns around 150 miles 🥲 when the lugs are fresh the grip is great, so from a racing standpoint it's nice. Still hard to justify $250 for though
@mdicello18236 күн бұрын
" It didn't try to super shoe me" HAHA. Love these reviews.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Never know what we're actually going to say during these reviews 😂
@danreiser4496 күн бұрын
I thought that with v2 they dropped the carbon plate toward the outsole a bit to make it more comfortable?
@delayewm6 күн бұрын
I believe that is true. It is more accommodating.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Certainly doesn't look like that to me. When you lift up the insole, there's about 1mm of strobel board foam and then the plate is right under that. There's a few holes in that foam and you can see the plate right under it
@Lag105 күн бұрын
I was under the impression from other content that the plate was lowered as well but that’s false or they increased the insole thickness as a means of “dropping” it?
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
I hear ya on that, as I also read that they moved the plate, but I'm just not seeing enough change for it to be considered any sort of upgrade. I never got to run in the first version either, so perhaps even the slightest of changes was all they were going for
@berry59546 күн бұрын
Great stuff again, How narrow is this shoe? especially midfoot. I love the sizing of the agravic speed ultra.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Narrower than the speed ultra for sure. It feels about the width of the Zegama 2, but there's no room to spill over the edge or else you're right on top of the carbon wings
@berry59545 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace THx!!! no go then.
@darkventuressales59306 күн бұрын
Great ramble! I love the first version and got over 500k in my first pair and just on to the second pair. It is such a versatile shoe, I have raced 50-100k in them as well as long easy days. I haven't paid over £100 for a pair and think at this price they are amazing!
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
At that price it's a no brainer!
@murraynaish10 сағат бұрын
Where are you finding these for £100?!?
@patricksaunders26749 сағат бұрын
Pro direct running, they are £101.25 at the moment
@MasumiHerota6 күн бұрын
Curious if V1 of the Vectiv Sky Pro has the same issue as the Vectiv Sky. And that is tread life. Really loved this shoe. Really loved it. But the tread was almost dead in about 6-7 weeks of running. I've never seen anything like this before. In fact if it wasn't for the life of the tread, I would still be running in them. I wanted a shoe with a little bit more groundfeel than the Vectiv Sky Pro. So recently I went with Terra Kiger 9. Never thought I'd be running in Nikes. But they fit the profile I look for that seems to be getting more and more difficult to find. Except for weight of course. They aren't light. I wanted descently roomy toebox (not euro snug, but didn't have to be Altra), low stack but enough protection from sharp stones (Tucson AZ trails), sub 9oz...or at least sub 10oz, 3-5mm drop, and sticky outsole. I will say the Nnormal Kjerag nailed it. But overall to snug. Sorry. Getting off subject. Do you know if the Vectiv Sky 2 is coming anytime soon? Any thoughts of what I mentioned about outsole life? Keep doing what you guys do. Hands down the best running shoe reviews. Almost DC Rainmaker in details. Let me know if you're ever down this way. Something I wanted to mention (I had to step away and an now finishing watching). Was that the biggest benefit in the carbon plate I found was the lateral stability in the forefoot. Now some of that is the tighter toebox. For example when I now have begun running in the Terra Kiger 9 the lateral stability in the forefoot and twisting is there. Part of that is of course the roomier toebox in the NT9. An issue sometimes I had with Altra. Back again. Im at the portion where you discuss the durability of the outsole. I can see the take on how this can be a shoe focused on racetime. And how that could validate it. I will add that i dont worry about cost if something offers value for that cost. And i think when you're hitting $200-250+ that some durability should be factored in as necessary. And thats where i drew the line. Still makes me sad (as this was recent). Felt like i found "the shoe" as i was moving away from Altras of many years. And Pearl Izumi (remember their shoes? That was also a sad time for me when PI stopped producing shoes...back when Timmy O was racing in the N2 Trail...and by the way the foam on the TK9 reminds me of PI midsoles). Anyways. Maybe i just need to cut out a few things so that i can afford to buy a pair of Vectiv Skys every two months. Im thinking about it. That lateral stability in the forefoot in technical was crazy. The shoes loved technical rocky trails of southern Arizona. I know this review is about the Vectiv Sky Pro 2, but the Vectiv Sky is similar minus a lower stack and drop. I will say that i highly recommend them if you dont mind replacing them every two months. But please TNF. If youre reading this, please make the outsole more durable. Or add the Vibram Litebase🤔. The may be the best outsoles ive run in when i think of the Kjerag. And again. Back again. Another concern ive had with the Vectiv Sky or Vectiv Sky Pro was would they have a v2...v3...v4...? Its so easy to get invested in a certain model to to see it no longer made. Thats a concern i have with TNF more than some other brands. Like Altra for example. I went through numerous iterations of the Superior and Lone Peak. Sometimes i was happy with the changes. Sometimes i wasnt. But i knew the models were there to stay...and hopefully improve. TNF i worry a bit. One more thing. I thought i heard that some on TNF team were actually opting more for the Vectiv Sky than the Vectiv Sky Pro? Or some of the team? Not just dependent on course they were raciing, but due to more groundfeel and the Vectiv Sky is leaner.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
You should take a look at the Merrell long sky 2 Matryx for a light shoe that's got a beefy outsole, decent ground feel and a little rounder toe box. Hopefully TNF is continuing to tweak and optimize durability of their race shoe outsoles. It definitely could still be better
@Chuck199906 күн бұрын
I run in both this one and the speed ultra, one thing to really point out, the vectiv is saving the legs sooo much. Compared to other shoes a few hours in your legs just do not feel smashed at all. And this is especially true in the downhills. It excels for running down 10-15% gravel roads, it regularly makes me push them too hard, as it just feels so smooth going downhill.
@RowOfMushyTiT6 күн бұрын
Speed Ultra too firm to save legs? I got that impression from the Speeds (haven't tried the Ultra). Zegamas save my legs the best so far.
@Chuck199906 күн бұрын
I think the ultras are pretty good on the legs as well, but the vectiv is on another level. For me also better on the legs than the zegama 2
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Agree with this so much! Definitely a shoe that is going to perform great on something like the western states course!
@TheMassif6 күн бұрын
Saved the video for later, but commented for the algorithm, I’m pretty sure the like will come just after 😂
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
🙏🏻🙏🏻 appreciate ya!
@bk3n6 күн бұрын
Got that Mafate feel? 🤑 Slow down lads. I only just got the balls (and $$) to secure the Speed Ultra.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
😂😂😂
@NateCrail7 күн бұрын
I initially went with my true-to-size in the Agravic Speed Ultra and after about 40 miles decided to swap them for a half-size down. About 100 miles and one 50km technical trail race later, I can definitively say that going down a half-size was the correct choice.
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Yeah seems like for the majority of folks, that half size down is the way to go. Glad you were able to swap out!
@NateCrail5 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace Running Warehouse <3
@philstafford62727 күн бұрын
For a race like the Pikes Peak Marathon, you feeling more Tecton or Mafate?
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Hmm that's a tough one! Personally, I think I'd lean towards the Mafate because I like how it feels to hike in more than the TX2, and I'm definitely hiking a good portion of the up. Both feel great descending
@philstafford62722 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace That’s a great point! And those bigger lugs will do better with that hard-pack marble surfing. Thanks guys!
@sheilaboyle84707 күн бұрын
Great review. I purchased both before seeing this and bought my usual size and they have been great. Perhaps if you have a wide foot like mine you won’t need to size up?
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Yeah my guess is that you wouldn't need to size up, as if you need to do that to get the width right, they'll likely be way too long and then it's probably just not the right shoe for you
@sheilaboyle84705 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace Meant to say size down!
@2leggedprophet8 күн бұрын
I have the 001s and really like the feel but get chafing under my ankle bone from heel collar that rubs off skin. Have also had blisters on heel. So disappointing given the price point and these have just been sitting on the shelf. Has anyone else had that issue with chafing? Any ways to solve?
@ConversationalPace8 күн бұрын
I (Brett) definitely had some heel rubbing issues as well. It did start to improve after about 70 miles of running in them, but it still wasn't perfect. The best option for me was to just wear socks with thick padding around the heel/ankle area
@chrisottenstroer72029 күн бұрын
They hit the US market back in 2016 when Jon Albon was racing the VJ irock’s in US races. Almost every Spartan pro was wearing an Xtrm or Maxx model from then on.
@lieluo20979 күн бұрын
This vs the La Sportiva Jackal ii, which one would you pick for moderate trail running in the 10-20k distance category?
@ConversationalPace8 күн бұрын
I'd probably wear the Jackal because the upper fit and lockdown was much better for me. This VJ is a little more cushioned, but the La Sportiva has enough cushion for 10-20k distances
@lieluo20978 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace thank you! Just got my pair of the Jackals literally 2 min ago! 😅👍🏼
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Hope they work well for you!
@Mister_Phafanapolis9 күн бұрын
First time hearing the word last used when discussing sneakers. sNeAkErHeAd don’t understand the concept. Although I wouldn’t consider you two ‘head because you’re much smarter than the average Jordan Funko Pop enthusiast.
@ConversationalPace8 күн бұрын
haha yeah not your typical sneakerhead, but definitely very stoked about all the new releases within the trail running world!
@Lag1010 күн бұрын
I know the boomerang and Saucony pb insole adds some thickness but does anyone have a recommendation on an orthotic that would take up similar space but also provide some arch support?
@ConversationalPace8 күн бұрын
The Superfeet Run Cushion model is a fairly high volume insole that has an actual arch under the layer of cushion
@ChristianHampshire10 күн бұрын
I am having a hard time finding a plated trail shoe that doesn’t want to collapse my ankles…. I ran in the Speed Ultra for a 50k a month ago, but that was around the Zion area so pretty rolling non technical hills. Is the Speed much more stable? I am just about to give up on plated trail shoes. Not worth it IMHO. Thanks for the review!
@ConversationalPace8 күн бұрын
The speed is a little more stable being lower to the ground and a smidge wider underfoot, but not much though. What other plated shoes have you tried?
@ChristianHampshire8 күн бұрын
@@ConversationalPace Vectiv Pro 2 (very unstable for me, especially in the Rocky Mountains of Utah), Tecton X (which was decent, but haven’t tried out the X2).
@ConversationalPace5 күн бұрын
Hmm yeah sounds like you're probably better off without the carbon plate and in either something more flexible or lower to the ground (or both)
@f_youtubecensorshipf_nazis11 күн бұрын
Looking back the fact that Nike hasn't been able to make good rubber for decades should have been a red flag.
@morganflockhart94211 күн бұрын
Anyone and send the other two to me 😂
@phontalienjakob122612 күн бұрын
Great review guys!! Any idea or rumours of the 9th iteration?
@ConversationalPace8 күн бұрын
Haven't heard or seen anything about a 9th gen WH yet. Probably looking 2025 for that one
Пікірлер
The Agravics Speeds are eerily similar to the Pulsar Trail Pro 2s when I hold them side-by-side.
Have you guys tried the S/LAB Ultra Francois D'Haene Edition? Almost zero info on this shoe out there.
Nice review, as always. Learning a lot from your level of detail. Would you guys ever review any of the arcterex trail shoes?
Thanks for watching! They're definitely a brand that is on our radar and for sure in the review future 👍
My god guys 46 minutes to tell about 2 shoes let’s go here
😂 😂 we could easily spend an hour talking about each shoe! We'll take however much time we need to answer all the hard hitting questions 👍
@@ConversationalPace I hear that no hate. I no a lot of use watch other channels bc they tell what you are telling us but in like 10 minutes
Great review! I like these a lot but find the Speed Ultras to be a lot more nimble on technical trails. Brett, saw you on the signup for Waldo next week? You planning on these, the speed ultras or something else?
I also found myself feeling more nimble in the Speed Ultras, but when I slowed down to 100k/100mi paces, I felt better in the TNF. Perhaps I'm just subconsciously trying to justify why I'd need both 😂. I think I'll be wearing the Hoka TX3 at Waldo. Hope the smoke clears out a bit more in the next 10 days 🤞
@@ConversationalPace I think having both TNF amd speed ultras in the quiver makes a ton of sense. Heck, even a couple other super shoes too. For me the real test is whether ANOTHER shoe purchase justifies the shopping arms race it triggers with my wife, which btw she wins every time 🤣🙃
What about the Cascadia 18 ? 😮
Cascadia 18 just came out! It's just an upper update over the 17, so going to be very similar feeling to last year's model 👍
@ConversationalPace Well, get on it ! Haha, only kidding. I hear the midsole has been softened a tad also. Peace !
I am loving the Vectiv 2's, and your review is spot on. They really save the legs on long days, and the Dream foam is ideal for trails. I did find that they run a little small though. I normally wear a 12 in everything, but these felt tight on the toes, so I returned the 12s for a 12 1/2. Very happy I did. I am using them Saturday for a 55k race on the Northville-Placid Trail in NY.
Best of luck out there!!
@@ConversationalPace Thanks man!!
Is this a podcast somewhere? I can’t find any CP episodes on my apple pods??
At the moment all the videos are just on KZread because there is such a visual aspect to them. Written reviews will be coming soon though 👍
My feet feel all banged up after 30k in the Adidas Agravic. Have done 80k runs in the Vectiv Pro and Pro2 and much better. I think the Vectiv Pro1 is a little lighter. Probably why Katie prefers the 1s...
The Vectiv Pro 1 upper also fit with a little more volume in the forefoot
Happy Finn mentioned not being very breathable. That killed Topo for me. Only pair I had were still damp the morning after my only run in them.
Yeah definitely such a huge bummer to grab your shoes the next morning and have them still be wet!
Hi guys, any recomendation about sizing with the pro 2? I usually use 28cm in nike or salomon, that its 10us or 44eu, but in the north face 28 looks 43eu so not sure .. Thanks!
That is interesting they're calling a US 10 a 43. I thought that length wise, my US 10 Vectiv Pro 2 felt the same as my last few Nike trail shoes in the same US 10
@@ConversationalPacethanks so will fit great, and did you notice blisters or disconfort because the lateral carbon wings? I read some north face athlets cut them a bit
The only time I noticed the carbon wings underfoot was when taking a switchback really hard and my foot would slide to the edge of the shoe. It was really only for a step or two though, so never bugged me. My foot is also slightly on the narrower side.
Wasn’t totally sure I would like super shoes but after running a race and a few training runs in the tecton 2.5, I’m drinking the Kool aid. It’s crazy how much faster your pace is at the same level of effort output. I’m sure not all of them will be the same but it’s going to be a wild next couple years for trial footwear.
I think there are still doing to be lots of shoes that miss the mark of 'super', but I think both is Vectiv Pro 2 and TX2.5 should be in the super category, even if they feel pretty different. Trail shoes are about to get weird (in an awesome way) in the next few years!
Random question: Do you know of any east coast shoe reviewers? I love you guys, and the content, but the perspective is a little off for us on the Beast Coast. Looking for more technical terrain running shoes. Thanks. And please keep this up!! ❤❤
That is a great question and one I don't immediately know the answer to. Surely there has got to be one or two out there!
had the same inside heel material tearing and lug wear-down issues in the vectiv enduris 3s. and the same pros: great volume, light upper, surface ctrl outsole plenty sticky. wish they lasted longer. loved the feel. would buy NF shoes on sale, but not going for full price when they wear out after 170-200 miles
It's interesting how the material across their heel collar isn't very durable. Doesn't seem to negatively affect the shoe, other than just looking a little ugly. Hopefully TNF is continuing to work on outsole rubbers and patterns to increase durability
Excited to try the Ultra
Really happy to see an improvement in the upper on the V2. I loved the V1, but i had 2 issues. First, the mesh was too open and dust got in real easy. Second, the tab at the back gave me a blister on my Achilles on anything over about 15km. Looks like both issues are sorted now. I tend tonrun on forest trails more, so hopefully less wear on the lugs. I love TNF trail shoes. The enduris 2 and 3 are fantastic. They just work for me and how i run.
The Enduris is one of the most underrated shoes out there! Talking to some of the designers at the running event this past November, one of the main reasons for the upper material change was to not let as much dust in 👍
Loving the shoe porn b roll you guys have going in this review!
Hah thanks for watching!
Are you still doing a prodigio review?
Coming up next!
Are there any instances under 100 miles where you would take the Zegama 2 over this? PS. It is a shame most sizes aren’t available anywhere and north face webchat wouldn’t give any insight about more arriving.
I'd take the Zegama 2 over more technical terrain that's pretty slow going. I feel more comfortable over a really long time (like 24+ hours) in the Zegama 👍
Hopefully the Sky is coming soon as a follow up. I'm more interested in that as a super shoe than this.
Me too as that is the most promising North Face trial shoe in years.
We'll look into it!
Did you guys get your hands on the Tecton X 2.5? Would love to hear your thoughts 🙏
Didn't get our hands on them and gone forever 😭
The wings tore at the fold on the first run for me on one shoe, but I didn’t notice a difference between the shoe with the wings just glued on and the one with the wing still attached to the plate even after running 100 + miles
I have a crack all the way through the medial right side wing and can't tell a difference between that and the left side either 😅
Loving the trend of black & white trail shoes. Also, can’t find a men’s size 9.5 in stock anywhere except eBay 🙃
Hopefully there's more stock on the way soon
Once the Tecton X3 is tested and reviewed we need a CP super shoe showdown episode!
100% doing this comparison video!
@@ConversationalPace Can’t wait!
I have the first version, and I ended up cutting the wings off, much better ride after that. I tried the second version on, but to Finn’s comment, it felt more narrow, and so elected not to keep them. Agree on the outsole wearing down super quick and I’m not even at 100 miles in them. The upper on version one is still very comfortable and that’s never been a issue. For a 100 miler, the one thing that I would be concerned about is Power hiking the hills and or rocky steps etc, the midsole feels too squishy for me and end up fighting against it when not running. In the end some things worked well, just might be more designed for certain terrain and not CO technical trails I’m in most of the time.
Yeah I didn't think this is the greatest shoe for loose trail. Lug depth is not deep 😂
Agree with your self-appointed definition of “trail super shoe” ;-) Or at least what a super shoe is supposed to be. It’s supposed to make you run faster! For me, respectfully, the Vectiv series still isn’t a real super shoe by that definition - but the Hoka EVO Jawz still is, by way of illustration. TNF Flight Vectiv Pro 2 is a tall, highly rockered and expensive shoe with good but not great midsole foam and a decent outsole. The upper is better than the original. But it’s not even marginally faster than other tall expensive premium shoes. I look forward to a true super shoe from The North Face! Maybe start with a Vectiv Sky with better foam and even less weight. Bring on the Hoka Tecton X 3!
All the jawz gave me were blisters 😂😂
Unfortunately I do hate the wings. I bought the first version (on sale for 150) and like a lot about the shoe. However if I take them on anything off camber/more technical the wings start to bother me. I pot some inov8 Boomerang insoles in them and that has helped but for me I wouldn't take them beyond 20 miles. While I do find that carbon plated trail shoes can be fun for shorter races/workouts I am highly sceptical that they offer any benefit to non-elite runners. As far as I'm aware there has been no scientific evidence published that any of these shoes do confer an advantage. But even if we assume that they do improve running economy, its importance in trail ultra running is probably far less of a deciding factor than in marathon running. Given that most trail ultra runners will not run the whole course of a 100k or 100 mi, it is extremely unlikely that running economy is the limiting factor in regards to race performance.
It's going to be hard for any brands to publish studies that their shoes are faster on trails as that is a very large spectrum of dirt types, elevation, technicality, etc. Some brands are trying to optimize a shoe for a particular style of trail like the Adidas Agravic speed ultra around the western states course. I'm not sure if other brands are being that specific though. I agree, it's really going to come down to what the shoe is optimized for and if that also matches the type of running and racing you do
Why the highlighter colors?!
Damnit I just bought 2 new pairs of Zegamas…got to explain to my gf on why I need another pair of shoes now 😅
as long as you wear them all out, it's not wasted money 😂😂
It checks so many boxes but that much lug wear at 120 miles on a $250 shoe makes me hesitant.
Yeah definitely grip of diminishing returns around 150 miles 🥲 when the lugs are fresh the grip is great, so from a racing standpoint it's nice. Still hard to justify $250 for though
" It didn't try to super shoe me" HAHA. Love these reviews.
Never know what we're actually going to say during these reviews 😂
I thought that with v2 they dropped the carbon plate toward the outsole a bit to make it more comfortable?
I believe that is true. It is more accommodating.
Certainly doesn't look like that to me. When you lift up the insole, there's about 1mm of strobel board foam and then the plate is right under that. There's a few holes in that foam and you can see the plate right under it
I was under the impression from other content that the plate was lowered as well but that’s false or they increased the insole thickness as a means of “dropping” it?
I hear ya on that, as I also read that they moved the plate, but I'm just not seeing enough change for it to be considered any sort of upgrade. I never got to run in the first version either, so perhaps even the slightest of changes was all they were going for
Great stuff again, How narrow is this shoe? especially midfoot. I love the sizing of the agravic speed ultra.
Narrower than the speed ultra for sure. It feels about the width of the Zegama 2, but there's no room to spill over the edge or else you're right on top of the carbon wings
@@ConversationalPace THx!!! no go then.
Great ramble! I love the first version and got over 500k in my first pair and just on to the second pair. It is such a versatile shoe, I have raced 50-100k in them as well as long easy days. I haven't paid over £100 for a pair and think at this price they are amazing!
At that price it's a no brainer!
Where are you finding these for £100?!?
Pro direct running, they are £101.25 at the moment
Curious if V1 of the Vectiv Sky Pro has the same issue as the Vectiv Sky. And that is tread life. Really loved this shoe. Really loved it. But the tread was almost dead in about 6-7 weeks of running. I've never seen anything like this before. In fact if it wasn't for the life of the tread, I would still be running in them. I wanted a shoe with a little bit more groundfeel than the Vectiv Sky Pro. So recently I went with Terra Kiger 9. Never thought I'd be running in Nikes. But they fit the profile I look for that seems to be getting more and more difficult to find. Except for weight of course. They aren't light. I wanted descently roomy toebox (not euro snug, but didn't have to be Altra), low stack but enough protection from sharp stones (Tucson AZ trails), sub 9oz...or at least sub 10oz, 3-5mm drop, and sticky outsole. I will say the Nnormal Kjerag nailed it. But overall to snug. Sorry. Getting off subject. Do you know if the Vectiv Sky 2 is coming anytime soon? Any thoughts of what I mentioned about outsole life? Keep doing what you guys do. Hands down the best running shoe reviews. Almost DC Rainmaker in details. Let me know if you're ever down this way. Something I wanted to mention (I had to step away and an now finishing watching). Was that the biggest benefit in the carbon plate I found was the lateral stability in the forefoot. Now some of that is the tighter toebox. For example when I now have begun running in the Terra Kiger 9 the lateral stability in the forefoot and twisting is there. Part of that is of course the roomier toebox in the NT9. An issue sometimes I had with Altra. Back again. Im at the portion where you discuss the durability of the outsole. I can see the take on how this can be a shoe focused on racetime. And how that could validate it. I will add that i dont worry about cost if something offers value for that cost. And i think when you're hitting $200-250+ that some durability should be factored in as necessary. And thats where i drew the line. Still makes me sad (as this was recent). Felt like i found "the shoe" as i was moving away from Altras of many years. And Pearl Izumi (remember their shoes? That was also a sad time for me when PI stopped producing shoes...back when Timmy O was racing in the N2 Trail...and by the way the foam on the TK9 reminds me of PI midsoles). Anyways. Maybe i just need to cut out a few things so that i can afford to buy a pair of Vectiv Skys every two months. Im thinking about it. That lateral stability in the forefoot in technical was crazy. The shoes loved technical rocky trails of southern Arizona. I know this review is about the Vectiv Sky Pro 2, but the Vectiv Sky is similar minus a lower stack and drop. I will say that i highly recommend them if you dont mind replacing them every two months. But please TNF. If youre reading this, please make the outsole more durable. Or add the Vibram Litebase🤔. The may be the best outsoles ive run in when i think of the Kjerag. And again. Back again. Another concern ive had with the Vectiv Sky or Vectiv Sky Pro was would they have a v2...v3...v4...? Its so easy to get invested in a certain model to to see it no longer made. Thats a concern i have with TNF more than some other brands. Like Altra for example. I went through numerous iterations of the Superior and Lone Peak. Sometimes i was happy with the changes. Sometimes i wasnt. But i knew the models were there to stay...and hopefully improve. TNF i worry a bit. One more thing. I thought i heard that some on TNF team were actually opting more for the Vectiv Sky than the Vectiv Sky Pro? Or some of the team? Not just dependent on course they were raciing, but due to more groundfeel and the Vectiv Sky is leaner.
You should take a look at the Merrell long sky 2 Matryx for a light shoe that's got a beefy outsole, decent ground feel and a little rounder toe box. Hopefully TNF is continuing to tweak and optimize durability of their race shoe outsoles. It definitely could still be better
I run in both this one and the speed ultra, one thing to really point out, the vectiv is saving the legs sooo much. Compared to other shoes a few hours in your legs just do not feel smashed at all. And this is especially true in the downhills. It excels for running down 10-15% gravel roads, it regularly makes me push them too hard, as it just feels so smooth going downhill.
Speed Ultra too firm to save legs? I got that impression from the Speeds (haven't tried the Ultra). Zegamas save my legs the best so far.
I think the ultras are pretty good on the legs as well, but the vectiv is on another level. For me also better on the legs than the zegama 2
Agree with this so much! Definitely a shoe that is going to perform great on something like the western states course!
Saved the video for later, but commented for the algorithm, I’m pretty sure the like will come just after 😂
🙏🏻🙏🏻 appreciate ya!
Got that Mafate feel? 🤑 Slow down lads. I only just got the balls (and $$) to secure the Speed Ultra.
😂😂😂
I initially went with my true-to-size in the Agravic Speed Ultra and after about 40 miles decided to swap them for a half-size down. About 100 miles and one 50km technical trail race later, I can definitively say that going down a half-size was the correct choice.
Yeah seems like for the majority of folks, that half size down is the way to go. Glad you were able to swap out!
@@ConversationalPace Running Warehouse <3
For a race like the Pikes Peak Marathon, you feeling more Tecton or Mafate?
Hmm that's a tough one! Personally, I think I'd lean towards the Mafate because I like how it feels to hike in more than the TX2, and I'm definitely hiking a good portion of the up. Both feel great descending
@@ConversationalPace That’s a great point! And those bigger lugs will do better with that hard-pack marble surfing. Thanks guys!
Great review. I purchased both before seeing this and bought my usual size and they have been great. Perhaps if you have a wide foot like mine you won’t need to size up?
Yeah my guess is that you wouldn't need to size up, as if you need to do that to get the width right, they'll likely be way too long and then it's probably just not the right shoe for you
@@ConversationalPace Meant to say size down!
I have the 001s and really like the feel but get chafing under my ankle bone from heel collar that rubs off skin. Have also had blisters on heel. So disappointing given the price point and these have just been sitting on the shelf. Has anyone else had that issue with chafing? Any ways to solve?
I (Brett) definitely had some heel rubbing issues as well. It did start to improve after about 70 miles of running in them, but it still wasn't perfect. The best option for me was to just wear socks with thick padding around the heel/ankle area
They hit the US market back in 2016 when Jon Albon was racing the VJ irock’s in US races. Almost every Spartan pro was wearing an Xtrm or Maxx model from then on.
This vs the La Sportiva Jackal ii, which one would you pick for moderate trail running in the 10-20k distance category?
I'd probably wear the Jackal because the upper fit and lockdown was much better for me. This VJ is a little more cushioned, but the La Sportiva has enough cushion for 10-20k distances
@@ConversationalPace thank you! Just got my pair of the Jackals literally 2 min ago! 😅👍🏼
Hope they work well for you!
First time hearing the word last used when discussing sneakers. sNeAkErHeAd don’t understand the concept. Although I wouldn’t consider you two ‘head because you’re much smarter than the average Jordan Funko Pop enthusiast.
haha yeah not your typical sneakerhead, but definitely very stoked about all the new releases within the trail running world!
I know the boomerang and Saucony pb insole adds some thickness but does anyone have a recommendation on an orthotic that would take up similar space but also provide some arch support?
The Superfeet Run Cushion model is a fairly high volume insole that has an actual arch under the layer of cushion
I am having a hard time finding a plated trail shoe that doesn’t want to collapse my ankles…. I ran in the Speed Ultra for a 50k a month ago, but that was around the Zion area so pretty rolling non technical hills. Is the Speed much more stable? I am just about to give up on plated trail shoes. Not worth it IMHO. Thanks for the review!
The speed is a little more stable being lower to the ground and a smidge wider underfoot, but not much though. What other plated shoes have you tried?
@@ConversationalPace Vectiv Pro 2 (very unstable for me, especially in the Rocky Mountains of Utah), Tecton X (which was decent, but haven’t tried out the X2).
Hmm yeah sounds like you're probably better off without the carbon plate and in either something more flexible or lower to the ground (or both)
Looking back the fact that Nike hasn't been able to make good rubber for decades should have been a red flag.
Anyone and send the other two to me 😂
Great review guys!! Any idea or rumours of the 9th iteration?
Haven't heard or seen anything about a 9th gen WH yet. Probably looking 2025 for that one