Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc.
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc.
My name is Steve Barton, my son Adam is the owner of Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc, located in West Michigan. I am helping him start his business, Adam provides most of the finances as he earns them and I contribute 40+ years of experience. As of this date 8/31/17 we are in the process of filing for our first patent and hopefully will be able to share it with our viewers in about 3 months if things go well. We have a few other ideas that I believe we can patent and produce, this is the direction we want to go with Solid Rock. If it does not work out we can fall back on job shop work, but we would rather be able to make a product to sell. Together we are teaching his younger brothers and sisters the trade.
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Hope things are getting better for you. 🙂
Thanks for that, very informative.
dress wheels and jig grind daily at work. three years experience. thanks for advice. :)
You are welcome.
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I just grind right on center but my fixture is always set square. Ground some D2 punches recently on a harig head and no problem with taper. Stamping mylar so shot for 0.0001 a side clearance on punch guide and 0.0002 on die. Next time i find a little taper i will try going off center but don't think it matters much if care is taken to get fixture square. I was grinding a form with 2 different size radiuses and 2 flats. If I'm off center tangent points will be off so going off center in that situation would be bad. Nice video and ty.
You are welcome.
ich hasse das wenn jemand so viel labert..
Easy fix, watch another channel or better yet create your own and show the rest of us how it is done.
👍💯
First off thank you for the time and quality you and your family put into these videos. I realize this is an old post, but I'm hoping it might still get a response. As a hobbyist and rookie to grinding what wheel might be appropriate for surfacing a small mag chuck if NO coolant was available. Only hoping to achieve "reasonable tolerances" nothing like what you are producing!
I would go with a 46H porous wheel. Normally I would not use porous wheels on the mag but heat is going to be your greatest enemy here so the porous wheel will help a lot with that. Light cuts no more than .0003" and redress after 2 passes (.0006"). Finish cuts no more than .0001" and blank passes.
Hello! Did you find a solution for your surface grinder problem? I have the exact same machine, bought brand new. It´s capable of very accurate work and true mirror finish from certain angles. Problem is that when light hits in the "wrong" angle the surface finish looks like crap. Like a tractor tire pattern. Even the factory table grind looks bad in the same way. Impossible to get a UNIFORM surface finish, rough or fine! Niclas from Sweden
No. Johnny had to trade it in for a Hydrophilic Acer. The Acer is great. In the past I liked Chevalier grinders but will never by another new one after the bad experience with this machine. I will never recommend them to anyone again and warn others to stay away from this company.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Ah, ok! I suspect something is wrong with the spindle on these machines(?). I have tried everything from dynamic balancing of wheels to special suspension of coolant hose to prevent vibration transfering from the pump. Adjusting Z-axis ways... It´s very frustrating because the machine grinds extremely flat and accurate, but not as pretty as one would like. Thank you for your answer!
@@niclascarlsson4150 We tried everything I could think of to fix it to no avail. I was getting a better finish at .005" depth of cut on my Acer than we could at .0001 depth of cut on this machine. And the Acer cut was 10 times better in on the profilometer. There was an extra coupling in the tool box that I never seen ship with a machine before and when Johnny received the machine that back spindle guard was removed which lead me to believe they tried to fix it before and yet sold it to Johnny as a new machine.
I have been on the surface grinding field for a long time... But today's video taught me some important lessons.... Great video with great information.... Grab Love from your new Subscriber Suneel Kanda from India Uttar Pradesh Agra The City of Taj Mahal
Dude you gotta fix that wobbly ass cog wheel...I'm gonna freekout watching it...that wobble has to transfer to part in some manner.
Fixed a long time ago.
Great video!
I use the same technique to grind the sides with surface grinder, It's the best idea to grind with perfection... Grab Love from your Subscriber Suneel Kanda from India Uttar Pradesh Agra The City of Taj Mahal
Glad it help.
Great video mate, well explained. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
Is the saltwater aquarium in the lobby of your office. I'd like to see it.
It was in the main entrance lobby.
Hi Steve, when you are measuring how round the part was on the surface plate, do you use the same method to identify taper in the part? Is finding the high spot at each point a valid comparison or is the part in the fixture not parallel to the surface plate?
Yes, this will show taper also. When measuring the part in the fixture you are checking the roundness of the part to the centers. If the centers in the part are not perfect they can hide the true roundness of the part.
How does the Indi-Square compare accuracy wise to the radius base indicator squareness comparator? Do you still use it?
The Indi-Square is nice in that it can travel up and down and check the whole surface of a part not just at point of contact like the Squareness Comparator checker. It is very accurate but not as much as the Squareness Comparator checker. To check the whole surface with the Squareness Comparator checker you have one more step involved. You need to check the flatness and parallel of the surface first. If it is flat and parallel then you know the whole surface is square even at a single point of contact. I use them both.
The diamond stone for dressing the wheel should it not be on a slight angle like maybe 15° so you can rotate it all the time to keep a clean edge. Otherwise won’t the diamond develop a flat spot?
If it is a single point diamond then yes. If it is a cluster diamond then no.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc oh ok. Hmmm. I’m not sure what I have then. I assume if you look at it if it looks like it’s fragmented pieces together then I won’t have to rotate it but if it looks like it’s one piece, then put it on an angle.?
A single point diamond has only one diamond in it but a cluster diamond has many diamond in it. Mine usually have seven smaller separate diamonds. What you are describing sounds like a "grit dresser" which is used for CBN wheels. It has many very small diamonds embedded in a metallic base which looks like a single unit. @@TheZakkmylde
where to buy the indicator base?
How can I buy the indicator base? thanks
Right now I am way behind due to same health issues for the last 4 years. Things are looking better now and I can do some work in the shop. I have 2 almost done and 10 in the machining stage. They are all spoken for but I am sure there will be some cancellations due the wait. I can out you on a long waiting list if you like. You can contact me here solidrock@nlbchapel .org. Do not put the space after nlbchapel. It is there because of bot harvesting. Steve
22:50 - What about buying a used Brown & Sharpe Micromaster surface grinder? Would that be most likely out of spec? Thanks. 27:25 - Jeeze talking 25-50 millionths of inch here.
Buying a used surface grinders is a throw of the dice. You may be getting a great deal or you may be buying an expense machine that will let you down. If possible bring a a few pieces of steel the same thickness and place them at different spots on the mag chuck and grind them to the same thickness. Check to see if they measure the same and without taper. If it passes that test you may have a good one.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thank you sir for the reply. By far the most helpful information I have learned. I will take this advice. Also do you have any recommendations where would be a good place to find a low priced used reliable surface grinder?
That I do not know. You can start by doing a web search in your area and keep an eye out for auctions listings. @@sto2779
42:56 - Tenth a half for $2,500 Moore Jig Grinder... not bad. I believe these grinders have a max accuracy / tolerances of 2 tenths, so this means you have got them spot on when getting results of 1-2 tenths.
I can compensate in the set up. So far I am happy with it. Used Jig Grinders are cheap in today's world. I have a friend who picked up one in way better shape than mine for under $50 at an auction. It was a moore #3 if I remember right.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thanks you for the reply. It’s good to know you’re still active in KZread. Your videos are cutting edge and inspirational. I am in the market to get one, but have no clue where to find one for a good price. $50? Wow, lucky guy. Have any recommendations where I could buy one? Thanks.
I have seen good Moore #3 for about 8K jest for doing a google search in the past. You are talking about Jig Grinders right? Also, machine auctions are a good place.@@sto2779
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thanks for the reply. Yes, it is about Moore Jig Grinders #3. Right now I see every where not less than $5K. I found one on Facebook Marketplace, being sold for $3,500 but the seller told me that the upper unit is from model #2 and bottom is from model #3, which I find weird, two different models into one unit.
Congratulations that a very good job. 😊
Thank you! 😃
what "magnet" is he talking about? never heard that magnets are somehow related to ginding
Wheel load up "the wheel is what we call loaded"
We used a Norton Norbide stick back in my days at Talon as a tool and die maker to feather the wheel. Gave a nice cross cut. I remember dressing wheels down below a 0.100 thousandths and dropping slots in punches and holding .0001 tolerances. Mostly Zipper die tooling. Uses a Parker grinder. You did have to watch the fingers and be pretty confident on a surface grinder.
I spent most of my working career in deep drawn stamping. Work on a lot of press tooling in those days. Before hard turning we did a lot of profile grinding.
I've been following you for Mabey 4 to 5 years now. I've been able to apply the knowledge I've learned from your channel in home guarge. It's truly a great feeling. Thank-you.
That is awesome!
Steve, when getting a new (used) machine that includes a chuck, should you true to bottom of the chuck as a matter of course? I have heard that it is best practice.
I always do. I also grind the the table surface that the chuck gets fastened to. Steve
Not joking, I learn 2 or 3 new things every video I watch from you guys!
Thanks, glad they are helpful to you. Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc By the way Steve, I am not finding a website to purchase your products. Can you point the way?
How do I purchase one
I have one used one in great shape if you are interested. Steve
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT ACROSS THE BOARD !!!
Thank you.
Excellent info cheers from central TX.
Thanks
First time I sww the explanation why you should use the 15 degree angle on the diamond, so that you can rotate and expose a non-dull edge. Thanks!
You are welcome. It is most likely the number one mistake people make.
I need help dressing a 6° angle on the side and all we have is a j& s dresser. Can you explain it to me please?
Check out this video. kzread.info/dash/bejne/nnyMx6Nyj5y7cdo.html Just don"t place your left hand on the unit like he does in the video. Those are nice units, I have used them many times and like them a lot.
have you finished the modular set that you were talking about? its a nice thing to have
Yes we have.
This guy and the old man from Surburban tool have both made some of the most informative videos i have seen on KZread. I disagree with them at times but their videos are a huge step above most videos on grinding. TY
Thank you.
Good video. Thanks for showing how to dress a lip rather than trashing the side of the wheel with a norbide stick. I hate when people do that.
You are welcome.
The dressing side of wheel to get balance was nice also. All the youtube wheel balancing videos seemed to omit that step.@@SolidRockMachineShopInc
Good informative video. The surface finish chart you showed is for cylinderical grinding, results will be different on a surface grinder or material other than 4140.
The point was that a finer grit does not necessarily mean a better finish. I have the same results on the surface grinder if not more so.
Your mill turning reminds me of the VTL machines in our machine shop where I work. They have tables that are 30 feet in diameter. We have 4 of them. They are amazing.
Thanks for watching. Glad you enjoyed it.
I just picked up the Atco version recently. This video is very informative. Now I have to watch the center video. Thanks for the info
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it.
thank you for passing your knowledge. but you cannot really assess your surface finish regarding your wheel alone. what about wheel speed, dressing feed, cross feed, table speed. static diamond or rotary dressers. theres just too much variables. with one particular wheel i can get totally different surface finishes tweaking all these parameters. and then theres all the different types of steel
You are welcome and you are correct, there are many more variables than shown in the video. I do not have variable speed on my grinder so the variable RPM I have no control of. The most I could do is adjust the SFM by wheel diameter. The testing I did was based upon the conditions I grind with and more so focused on the surface finish based upon grit size .
Mount a grit wheel on a spin fixture like a Harig head. Turn grit wheel opposit direction as diamond wheel and make some passes. Work about as fast a a brake truer.
I like it, thanks for the tip.
I have worked at a couple carbide shops that hade the fancy truers, one powered with graduations. Now all i have is worn down grit wheels and whatever i can find to bolt them to and spin. Something powered is sweet. I have used dumores lightely clamped in a v block with an angle block to get angles trued on cup wheels also.@@SolidRockMachineShopInc
Do you sell vise jaws and angle blocks by chance i would love to buy them ?
We do sell them but are out of stock right now.
Good morning any problems with the taped holes after heat treatment
I use oversize taps they are .005" over so most of the time no problems. In DC-53 you have issues with small particles fusing to the threads if you do not clean the holes really good before heat treat.
Thank you . I am a 73 year old newbie
Good morning any problems with the taped holes after heat treatment
Did you have any trouble drilling and taping the holes to mount the motor on top
no, but you have to be careful not to go to deep and break into the internals.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc thanks i enjoy you channel
Radiac wheels were poor quality when I worked 10 years ago
They make some of the best wheels that I have ever used but you have to get the right ones for the right job. Matching the wheel to your work is important for any brand you use.
Steve, I haven't been able to find a Radiac A60Q8b-55 wheel. Is that still a current number? Also, why do you use a non-reinforced wheel? Thank you for sharing you experience and knowledge!
I do not know. I haven't bought any for a few years. I like the non reinforced wheels because they are thinner and cut without as much heat build up even though they break easier.
Thank you, Steve. @@SolidRockMachineShopInc
Can we grind bush on cylindrical grinder machine sir
Yes you can
Nice addition. Even though we have 4 external grinders, i still use harig centers often. The tail center pivoting is really a non problem. Once its adjusted to make part true centers are in line very close. I always put wheel on center of part. I am usally grinding some shoulder so i just tap the fixture in square. I used harig centers this week to make tooling balls. The tail is solid unlike every OD grinder. It allowed me to use reverse center on tail and hold all dims from the ball end.
These unit come in handy and the precision with a few tweaks is amazing. Sounds like you like them as much as I do.
i would not be happy in a shop without a set. I have a myford and 2 chinese Od grinders that i can use but still need the Harig centers often.@@SolidRockMachineShopInc