Anthony Thomas Fine Metals & Gems
Anthony Thomas Fine Metals & Gems
Focus on metal refining and experiments you won’t find anywhere else. Some of the experiments include a novel approach to pouring metal shot in a recirculating system and a silver cell that allows you to refine 925 sterling silverware in one step!
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I snagged myself a great deal on an arc welder, since I've been wanting to teach myself how to do that, too... Turns out, it absolutely will also power my electrolysis cell. Trickiest part was setting it up just right so as to not give it too much juice!😅
Man I applaud your ingenuity, but that is the really long way to nowhere. 3% just isn’t worth chasing at the hobby level.
I understand how you might think that now but keep watching and it will all start to makes sense soon... Thank you for your honesty!
@@monadnockgems no thanks. I’ve wasted enough time and money to know that there’s no way to even cover expenses with ANY plated material. And frankly, I’m pretty skeptical of the claim of 3% yield.
Inquarting gold then parting it with nitric acid then refine it with aqua regia, how much purity we can get from these steps, is it always more than 999 purity? Cause I see most of refiners do the same process but they refine gold 3 times in aqua regia which consume a lot of time and acids
Good question... Not always 999, depends on your procedure and the material I start with. Gold plated will always take more steps than karat gold because there is so much more base metal. Perfect procedure also makes a difference vs sloppy procedure. Ultimately you can get 999 with one refining if you start with cleaner gold and you use your very best procedures. Thanks for watching!
So about 17.6g lost in the melting.... up the chimney? Water still in the cement silver? Thirsty crucible?
Question what kind of filter are you using? My coffee filters aren’t filtering that great.
#2 Whatman filter paper mostly. Sometimes #2 and coffee filter.
Have you tried alloying the zirconium with bismuth with a flux doing an assay and then cupel off the Bismuth oxide to get a zirconium bead or would the zirconium oxidize also? I'm not sure.
Zirconium sparks if heated in the presence of oxygen. One method is to melt it in a vacuum, which I'm saving up for to try the Van Arkyl process - Heat Zr in vacuum of Iodine and ignite a tungston filiment inside of the vacuum. Pure Zr will plate out on the tungston filiment. Probably take me a year...
@@monadnockgems have you tried an electric Tabletop furnace with add an Inert shield gas like Argon or Nitrogen.
The only part that makes me sad about this is that silverware in a home is so uncommon now-a-days. Whereas before, silverware and fine China plates were the pride of many humble, middle-class families. Only to be brought out for special occasions. All of this silverware in the video was most likely, at one point, some housewife's pride. I have a decorative, wooden case full of my grandmother's silverware. And believe me, she was not rich. But she loved bringing it out for Thanksgiving.
Ahh, Pac Man.
Just wondering were did you get your XRF machine, and how do you like its performance. Thanks If you don't mind telling what did you end up paying for it?
Very happy with the XRF. It has worked great and I sometimes tell people it's like cheating in the lab. Absolutely not necessary but a big time saver for sure. XRF's are between $10,000 and $20,000, I would recommend Olympus Gold Xpert.
@@monadnockgems Did you order from over seas or is there a US distributor?
@@timtoolman4125 I ordered mine from GP-technical on ebay. They were fair to deal with.
@@monadnockgems Thanks for the info, that is going to be on the list to get.
Where did you get the XRF machine and how do you like it?
This is so rad deffenetally going to build one !
Handling molten metal you NEED a leather apron and BOOTS that go all the way over ankles, no laces. Or, leather covers for your shoes. Apron should go almost to well below knees.
my man can sense when im going to skip forward and does it for me 😂😂
Thanks, I try...
@@monadnockgems its appreciated
You skipped the sugar?
So what was it 1 spoon = 1 gram silver?
Yes Approx. 1 gram of silver per spoon is the average for single plated items.
What did you do with the leftover metal that is the rest of the spoon? Was it Nickel? Copper? Do you know how pure it is? I am getting a smelting furnace soon because I inherited a literal boatload of silver plate recently, and I want to smelt down my leftovers provided they aren't silver plated steel; curious as to how much leftover useable material there is.
If it's silver plate, it's probably on brass. Or stainless/steel. So you're not talking a kings ransom. But brass can be sold to scrap yards scrap yards for 1.70/lb or so. It's an alloy and you wouldn't be able to separate into elements without using chemicals. Just sell to scrap yard or make brass ingots
Is the acid solution at the beginning of the video suitable for stripping silver plated items?
It's all good if you got that kind of money to spend on that kind of equipment
We never got to see how good your guess was on cutting that bar at the end. Lol
If I recall, I was off by about a quarter inch! Lol
I love to see that color change after the first spoonful of the SMB is added so awesome.👍
New subscriber here. Just started stacking about a year ago and have taken an interest of everything precious metals. At the moment I have no Sterling but I would love to set up something like you have just to see those crystals form. I'm sure the video doesn't do them justice. Thanks for the content I'm sure I'll watch most of not all of your videos.
Thanks so much! Nice compliment, glad you liked it. I'll keep growing em (crystals) until you get yours set up! Lol
During refining of Precious Metals I never neutralize excess Nitric Acid. When an AR solution is prepared, Nitric is only added in small increments. As soon as everything has been dissolved, I add a few lumps of Copper and wait until no more Copper will dissolve, i.e. no more free HNO3 is present in the reaction flask. The unreacted HCl is then distilled off and recovered. Aluminium is the scrapper's friend, but the refiner's enemy. Using Aluminium for precipitation of metals from liquid solutions will contaminate these metals with Aluminium, which is difficult to remove afterwards. I totally avoid Aluminium and use Zinc instead (processed in my homemade ball mill to fine powder). Later, the Zinc is recovered from the HCl solution by electrowinning, so the Hydrochloric Acid can be reused. Copper Nitrate from liquid solutions is converted to intermediate Copper Sulfate by adding H2SO4, enabling the Nitric Acid to be distilled off for reuse. Then the Copper is recovered by electrowinning, leaving the Sulphuric Acid to be reused. Other metals will accumulate in the Sulphuric Acid. When a sufficient quantity is present, they'll be recovered as well. I agree with you that the term "waste" in reality don't exist; all we have is various materials that can be recycled.
You setup is spotless I dont know how you keep it that way dealing with silver nitrate.
Yeah I know. I literally stained everything the first time I ever used AgNO3
Thanks for noticing! Having tile on my bench helps a lot. I literally spend about half of my time cleaning up from experiments. Sometimes I feel like a dishwasher at the casino! Lol
In the upcoming videos are you going to wash the copper and show us how pure it is? I love chemistry and metallurgy. I appreciate what you and other content creators share with us that don’t have the means to perform these reactions. Can’t wait till the next video. 👍🤙❤️
Thanks for the awesome compliment! Yes, I am planning on those results coming up. Might take me a little bit to get to it because I have a few things to wrap up but it will be included in one of the next few videos. Thanks for watching!!!
Any tips for the amatuer whos just made his own HNO3 and made Aqua Regia lol I've never done this before so ive dissolved a bunch of gold plated and other various things with gold on them maybe a couple grams no more then like 4 or 5 i'm sure but like probably 2 maybe? 3 grams in approximation i have this solution a darkish green one is a brown as i only hade HCl at the time right so i put some gold plated stuff into a volumetric flask and the lid got stuck so its literally been sitting there for like over ten years about 15 years lmao i found it the other day its heavy too for about 100mls of liquid.. anyways what the heck do i do know there is greenish tint to the other larger portion of this greeenish solution which is obviously contaminated with like Cu, Pb, Sn, Heck you know all the base metals like you mentioned.. So in your experience what would you do next with the knowledge you have and the information provided if you'd be so kind as to just provide me a useful piece of advice on how to proceed id greatly appreciate it! Awesome setup0 too Lol i wish mine was that nice haha but yeah Great for safety and belkelive you me i know how nasty those 2 acids are!
Those gram weights in the beginning are not the weights of plated stuff i put in but an approximate guess based on absolutely nothing about the amount after the process is complete so my yield essentially lol or what id expect again dunno why i came up with that but i did youse a LOT of materials over the course of a decade and like i have just kept each batch and stored it as i could not proceed to the getting the metals out of solution stage so I'm assuming filter the solution and then What sodium bisulfate is it? but I have all essential PPE yeah i've been doing chemistry for like many years as a hobby lol So No formal education but I'm fairly confident in my skills i do all kinds of crazy stuff haha You can see a video of the aforementioned solution via my YT account under this name if youd like to see where i am at with the solution some are more bron like youd expect at first once your gold had dissolved. Oki doki Thanks ! Like you said there is such a thing as waste in chemistry and although ive put money into this project ive made it back through other things i was able to do or assist me better in doing because of my study of chemistry like I love it i can make a bunch of my own things and like yeah i dont need anything i can explain all kinds a of things i never could before and prove it using chemistry its great!
Usually when I’m dealing with an unknown substance I check the ph to make sure it is still acidic. If not, add some fresh acid slowly and view results. That should give you a starting point. Then take a test tube and sample. Your best bet might just be to add potassium hydroxide. That will push everything in solution out and you can start over. If your tests give you a good indication of what is in solution you can proceed accordingly. You can use stannous test, adding some copper to see if you get silver to plate out. You need a few test tubes. Sounds like a fun problem to have though.
Thanks so much for watching, glad you liked it and let me know how your refining goes.
I would try SMB in a test tube. If its gold in aqua regia it will drop out! But I think if there is silver in there you could get silver chloride as well and you'll need to further refine. SMB is a good test.
Wow, the side view showed it nice. Adding the aluminum slowly seemed to cause it to go through different metals slowly enough for layers to settle. It would be interesting to go taller and narrow like a graduated cylinder and add small amounts slower.
Very good idea. I’ll give it a go. Thanks so much or watching!
Pretty sure those are Venom Symbiotes. ;) Great vid.
I wish they were. That would be some video!
Is the XRF analyzer expensive?
You can find a decent machine starting at about $8,000 to $20,000. Kind of like buying a used car. Thanks for watching!
The lava slide is so cool
Thanks! I'm thinking of making a new stainless steel one in an upcoming video. It works great.
I have done this with vinegar instead of hcl. I found it worked better than no vinegar and run 6v. I will try the distilled water salt thing next. My question is how do you prosess the waste if you have no nitric acid.???
Im wondering if you added potassium nitrate to the hcl solution would that precipitate the silver chloride?.
Yes, it will precip everything. Electrolysis with platinum anode and graphite cathode will also precip just the silver if you run half of the solution until you start to see the copper drop stop elec.
Electrolysis - Graphite cathode and platinum anode. Silver will drop first. Stop electrolysis as soon as you see the copper drop. Just finished up this experiment. Maybe some kinks on the pt anode but it worked very well in my first attempt.
So been thinking Using vinegar is way cheaper and easier as far as waste goes. Do the reaction for stripping then take solution and remove base metals with concentrated vinegar, salt and h2o2 to get a cleaner silver. Then save it for the day that you have a proper setup to refine with nitric and be done with it! Love your channel btw thanks for all the great info!
So how small of a sample can that machine read ?
Good question… I haven’t actually put a very small sample, but I would think 10 particles maybe 20. Much less than a gram for sure.
Excellent demonstration. I learned a lot Thanks! I still can't get over how many allegedly educated people can not properly pronounce "antimony".
Thanks a lot! Really glad you liked it. It’s an interesting word! Most people have never heard of it.
These videos have confirmed that it is not easy whatsoever to recover silver from silver plated metals. I guess if it was easy, anyone could do it.
You’re not wrong, but I will be showing soon how with this set up, it actually can be easier after the initial investment is made and all the parts are in place. To do it right just takes a little patience. Thanks so much for watching!
amazing videos man keep em coming
Thank you! Great to hear! More to come...
Great channel Anthony! Im kind of getting inspired to set up a lab in my barn. Where do you find the sterling silver to start the process?
Thank you! You should do it! My wife goes to estate sales, and I buy at online auctions. But the best way is just get started refining and tell people what your up to. You'll be suprised to know that most people have old jewelry they would take a few bucks for.
OK, elecrolyte was clear, repurification has to give 9999... 🙂 How about making just solid silver anode bar instead of using shot or crystals for final phase... could be rolled to be thiner a bit (bigger surface). I know, will be very slow, but I am not in a hurry, silver is not in a hurry... God bless...
Solid silver anode should give the best results for 9999 I would think! Slow and steady is the way! I think I heard that somewhere…. Thanks Fran!
I really enjoy your videos! Two questions: where can I buy an aspirator bottle? None on Amazon seem to have the large mouth opening on bottom. All the stainless steel I have found is magnetic. Does that mean they will corrode (like the s/steel cyber truck)?
Lol about Elon's truck! Yes, it will corrode. You can use it and it will work. It isn't a deal breaker if it is all you have. Run lower voltage to lesson the corrosion. If you get a little iron it will simple dissolve into solution and then I rinse the silver crystals in HCL to remove any residual. I have been using the smaller neck (19/26) aspirator bottle for a couple months and it has worked very well. I think the only draw back I am testing is a small reduction in output but overall it works just about the same as my original bottle and it saves on dacron filters! Thanks so much for watching!
Sorry meant to say rinse in sulfuric acid. Do not rinse silver in HCL.
I love chemistry and I’m happy to have found you among a few other metal heads I watch. A fellow KZreadr cements his copper back out of solution using angle iron. Could he use your electrolysis method with the platinum anode, nickel cathode and sulfuric acid to refine his backs to three nines. And possibly use it again right cement out his refined silver? Thanks for showing us your alchemy. 👍🤙❤️
I will have videos upcoming on how to use up all of the solutions. There are a few ways to get the result you're looking for. All acids and solids are in the system until you pull them out. They don't go anywhere but we have to decide in what form we want them to come out in. I am working on a series of experiments to pull each metal out one by one and reclaim the acids. Stay tuned and Thanks so much for watching.
“It’s illegal to destroy us currency” 😂🤣 What happens if there is nitric in it left over when smelted?
LOL!! There destroying it for us! - I would either add more silver first to consume the nitric or you can boil it off before smelting. Just reduce your solution down until there are no more fumes. Use high heat to drive off the nitric. If there is a large excess of nitric I would add HCL to produce silver chloride and convert with lye and sugar. HCL will convert all the nitric. If you are using copper to plate out the silver, excess nitric will just eat up your copper before it neutralizes and starts plating out the silver, which also works fine if you are keeping your copper! Thanks so much for watching! God Bless
What cawpper?
I have a couple of questions regarding the 3rd cell with 95% silver and wondered how pure is the silver you recover. I process stirling silver by dissolving in nitric and heating at about 300 deg C which turns the copper to the oxide which is insoluble ans end up with pure silver nitrate which is what I need. But I would like to try your electrolytic cell if the silver is 99.9% . Also what are your anode bottles called as I cant seem to find them in the UK and what do you use as the membrane?
Thank you for watching! I get 999 silver directly from the cell. Sterling in and 999 out. The only draw back, compared to some other methods, is that you will need to change out your electrolyte more frequently depending on how much base metal is introduced. This method has been used traditionally to purify 98% silver or higher, as a final step. Which I figure is not a concern because with this method you can recover most of your nitric acid with distillation. (upcoming video on this) The bottle is a 24/40 aspirator bottle for sale on amazon for about $50 US. The membrane is "dacron", (Shopvac - wet dry vacuum bag). Also don't forget to buy chemically resistant zip-ties, I buy mine from Grainger. Let me know how it goes, it is a lot of fun watching the crystals grow!
I been doing this but at this point I need a notebook to keep track 😂
The difference between science and messing around is "writing it down"!
Hello man, that is SOME lab you have now... I was told, electrolysis of sterling is not good method as there is too much copper. Silver has to be like 98-99 % and electrolysis is "last step" to remove slight contamination (Cu Au PGMs). Any thought about that? Here in central Europe sterling is kinda recent, I have most silver 800, 812, 830, and 900... 925 just some recent jewelery and british or american stuff...
Hi there brother! if all you want is your silver this is not the way to go, but i'm going to refine out, or at least i believe, i will refine out every metal with this process. Next test... Using the series of metals to pull the base metals out of the waste aqua regia one by one. My end goal is a sort of trash compactor approach. Garbage in, pure metal out! Keeping or selling all of the base metals is worth the cost of my acids. On your other point, I've put 50/50 silver in the cell and it works fine until it doesn't. If you run it twice it comes out 999. I've found that (95% and up silver put in cell will get 999 out. below that will also work if you monitor your solution saturation. As long as you don't reach a critical point of saturation you will get out 999 fine. God Bless!
Very interesting. I didnt quite get why you pored the slimes into the aqua regia. What did that accomplish?
Thanks for watching! Pouring slimes into aqua regia causes silver chloride to form and settle out to the bottom. Every other metal will dissolve into solution. This creates a seperation point to get only pure silver chloride. Convert AgCl into silver metal using lye and sugar method.
If not said already, once de-plating has been done. you can disolve all into a 70/30 Water/Nitric and use copper to cement out pure silver. Copper will exchange with solution silver to form silver metal. this bypasses the need to restore silver chloride. basically takes you 2 steps in front. alternatively this 70/30 solution can also be used as an electrolyte for crytsalization of silver onto stainless. however, for purposes of refining silver for future melt, the copper transfer method is most efficient.
is it easy sell silver after all the work. Its not stampet and time used on getting off. Just better working a hour more on job.
Silver is silver, no matter what form it is in, it has a buyer. Or a stacker... Sell to refiner is simple, sell to the public a little more work. Thanks for Subscribing!!!
If you use a large Buchner filter (2L) your washing process will be much faster and minimize loss even further.
Uses aqua Reja gold button doesn’t dissolve can you explain this please?
Pure gold should be combined with silver to dissolve properly. AR is poor at dissolving pure gold. I suppose it would dissolve over a period of time but combine with silver then go nitric to remove silver then the gold is broken down into its cement form and AR works fast on it then.
Would you consider testing other peoples sample of their precious metals work?
Yes, I would be happy to. Send an email to anthonythomas.us