Fantastic review! Thanks so much. Can I ask what the swivel model of the Knew saw is called? You mentioned there's another model that has a swivel function.
@janearcher38342 ай бұрын
Thank you for your kind response. You can find the swivel replacement blade clamps here: www.knewconcepts.com/replacement-swivel-blade-clamps-for-mkiii-saws.php or here: www.knewconcepts.com/replacement-swivel-blade-clamps-for-mkiv-saws.php You just need to make sure that they match the saw frame that you have. You can reach out to Knew if you are unsure which frame you have.
@FredrikThorbjrnsenLillejordet4 ай бұрын
Great video! I love that you show the whole process and explain your thoughts
@DreidMusicalX5 ай бұрын
Where are you buying your casting grain silver from? I am wanting a reliable source knowing I'm getting real silver and hopefully not taking chances off ebay.
@sharonwaller67167 ай бұрын
It was hard on the rolling mill because it needed anneling
@janearcher38347 ай бұрын
Oh it got annealed. It just takes a lot to reduce thick silver. One thing I probably should have done prior to running through the rolling mill was to hammer it, then anneal it. I have since heard that helps close any voids in the metal, or reduce them.
@ITZGR82BFREE7 ай бұрын
Please stop calling it SMELTING, unless you are super heating stone ores to extract the metals.
@terranceborer76146 ай бұрын
About time someone said something! Lmao! Sorry .
@terranceborer76146 ай бұрын
She's about to poison everyone in you tube land What! Not with Boric acid roach powder as a flux? Wowzers Inhale that and you will have a bad day
@David-xg3sq5 ай бұрын
@@terranceborer7614borax is used as a flux for gold and silver. Mule Team borax is the same borax that's sold as flux. Check any jewelry suppliers flux, it's borax. 🤦
@thaynethetigerbarnes9 ай бұрын
I think you are a very skilled person! Ty so much for making the video. I'm interested in smelting gold. I play in dirt 😅so its great you might do this with silver. Do you think i could make a good go of it as a one man op. I hit the skim bars every year. The gold accumulates i smelt it into a bar with that thing?
@janearcher38349 ай бұрын
You can definitely melt gold in this. You wouldn't be able to smelt it as in separate it out from other metals. You would need a different operation for that. But definitely good for melting metals.
@thaynethetigerbarnes8 ай бұрын
thank you I have since found this out. but these definitely are cool little units @@janearcher3834
@thevictorychannel94439 ай бұрын
Thank you Jane. Might I suggest that you get a sheet or two of either Hardiboard or Cement tile backer board to have on hand. You might prop up a piece behind the furnace to protect your window. The constant heating and cooling is not good for glass, even tempered. Around my metal melting work areas I put some of the cement board loose on the floor. You can't under estimate that one day you will have a spill or a crucible or mold will crack or break. Happens to me all the time. Glad to see you have gloves and an Extinguisher. You might keep a bucket of sand in a metal bucket on hand. I can't see if you have a leather apron. You can pick up most of what you need at Harbor Freight but I am sure you go there all the time for your picks, misc tools, and supplies. Anyway, great video. I had a Kerr at one time but sold it and now looking to get back into teaching Lost Wax and would like to offer my students this alternative for their own furnace. I have evaluated it in my lab and it's a good choice. The one I have does have the internal overtemp safety switch, something to look for if you open it up, but I believe these are U.L. You can add the switch which looks like a little top hat in series with the line wire and mount it in your unit if it is not there. Randy
@janearcher38349 ай бұрын
Thank you for your suggestions. With furnaces like these you only have to worry about a heat column above the furnace. There is very little heat dissipated outward. What do you use your bucket of sand for? I have my quench water on my soldering table just out of sight. That would take any heat out of any spilled metal that got off the tile. And I do love Harbor Freight!
@thevictorychannel94438 ай бұрын
@@janearcher3834 Quench water is good for quick cooling metal or an investment casting but for fires you never want to use water around metal. It will cause a steam explosion, even when used on the smallest amount of hot metal. Even if the metal looks solid it can be liquid in the middle. Keep a bucket of sand or get a bag of baking soda used for sand/soda blasting and keep it in a metal bucket. If you should have a spill and something should smolder or catch fire, dump the bucket on the spill. BUt never ever throw water on a fire if there is hot or molten metal or you may end up with metal flying onto you, or spreading the fire more.
@Grottotrance9 ай бұрын
i is cAtsting metol 😻dur dur dur
@user-vz8hz9dr3x Жыл бұрын
Well done review, thank you! I was wondering if I would like the Knew saw and you answered my question. No more chest bruising for me! Is there any drawback with the Knew saw?
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words. What I hear most from people about their frustration with the Knew is that they have a hard time getting the saw blade to hold in the screw clamp. I have never had that problem. But clearly others have. The second issue is getting the tension correct using the lever on the model I have. That, like so many things in metalsmithing is a matter of practice. Once you get it you shouldn't need to change the settings on your saw frame. FYI, Knew saw frames are used in woodworking and many other applications, not just for silversmithing. Have a great day!
@lorimichels4515 Жыл бұрын
@@janearcher3834 hi. I appreciate your response to my comment! I need to find a replacement for my green lion saw (yes, I thought it was attractive tool, too), or, buy a chest plate to wear when piercing/sawing a project. That makes sense, trying to master the tension. It would have been lovely for them to stay how many turns of the tension dial knob to turn for sawing metal, for instance. I can't imagine the tension needing to be different from sawing copper from silver. Then, again, I'm new to piercing and sawing. The second comment you mentioned, hard time getting the saw blade to hold in the screw clamp, are you talking about when you unscrew the bottom dial knob to take out the blade and then put it back in and re-tighten it? I'm trying to find a thorough review on the saw, and I'm only getting positive reviews. No complaints and no explanation how to avoid/fix the negative issue that you stated. Could you speak a little more about the issue of the saw blade holding in the screw clamp?.
@annclark9277 Жыл бұрын
How long should it cool down after having been on for 3 hours?
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your question. I don't know what you intend to do with the unit or the crucible after three hours, but think of it this way. You don't want to shock either the graphite crucible or the unit. That could cause cracks or weaken it. So you can add more metal to the crucible after three hours and it will probably be okay. You can probably turn the unite back on again after three hours without any damage. I let my crucible and unit air cool until it was room temperature before putting it away. Did that help?
@annclark9277 Жыл бұрын
It’s that I have more than 3 hours of work (smelting paydirt) however the manual says after 3 consecutive hours of use to turn it off to cool down before continuing. It doesn’t mention how long.
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
@@annclark9277 That is probably to protect the thermocouple and heating filaments. Prolonged use can degrade them. Although that is the same for multiple uses (based on my experience with kilns). I would say just let it cool off till it is warm, not hot. But that could still take a few hours.
@chilebike6556 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Jane. Be interesting to know how much you have used the thing & how it has stood up. Pussy cats always good too. I'm looking at one of these for clock part casting from the tons of brass scrap I make.
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
I haven't used it much since this video. I have been very busy with my first job (which pays the bills). But I know from previously working with graphite and kilns that the thing that is likely to go first is the graphite mold. It will degrade faster than the unit. But they are easy to replace. ToAuto sells replacements which are relatively inexpensive and you can probably find them on Amazon as well. If the unit fails, it is likely because the thermocouple is no longer good. ToAuto doesn't sell thermocouples for this unit, but if you can find it on this unit, then you could see if one of the numerous thermocouples on Amazon would be a good replacement. Thermocouples are cheap. www.toautotool.com/collections/smelting-tools/products/pre-sale-graphite-crucible-metal-melting-ingot-mould
@chatwitch6 Жыл бұрын
I’m planning to buy one, but is it safe to use indoor ? Any aluminium fumes ? Any risk of fire ?
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
I used it indoors. It is as safe as the setup you create. As you can see in the video I put two layers of large tiles underneath the unit and underneath where I would pour. Also I created a wall of firebrick. The most likely problem would be if the crucible cracked and the contents ran out. Or when pouring you missed your mold and poured onto the tile surface. I would not say that there is never a zero risk of fire. But you can set yourself up for success by making sure there is nothing above the unit since there will be a heat column coming off of it, and nothing very close on the sides. Also make sure you have a heavy duty grounded extension cord that you can easily access to plug and unplug the unit. Neither the power cord or the extension cord should be underneath anything. Not under carpets or furniture, etc. You can see it in the video, about three feet to the right of the unit I have my acetylene torch soldering set up. So I have fire/flame in my studio all the time. But again it is in an environment where I have limited the risks. I also have three fire extinguishers nearby. One literally next to all this on the floor, and two at the entrance to my studio. And I check to make sure they are fully charged periodically. About aluminum fumes, there were none coming from the unit.
@chatwitch6 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your detailed explanation!❤
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
@@chatwitch6 If you aren't already, you should consider joining the Inspiring Metalsmiths Jewelry Facebook group. I am one of the admins there. We have lots of members who help out with metalsmithing questions as well as a place to show your work, and be inspired by other people's work. It's a very big community, so every topic is covered.
@ParanormalHorrorArtist Жыл бұрын
Your video was the first one i watched for reference. I still use your video today. Awesome job!! I just got a Good Crafter after my other China furnace fried its fuse. I opened it up but was ruined beyond repair. I recommend getting a Good Crafter because they are shipped from Amazon and the US directly. To Auto is also good from what I've read. Make sure you guys change out your crucible if worn. You don't want it breaking and ruining your electric melter.
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind reply. And yes, a degraded or damaged crucible will ruin your equipment.
@ParanormalHorrorArtist Жыл бұрын
@Jane Archer Just wanted to tell you that I also had been using the wrong power cord extension. Lol. I could've just plugged the machine only with the cord supplied but my needs were different. Luckily my dad told me what kind of extension to use. Good thing I noticed the cord getting hot. And one more thing I'm excited to tell you Jane is that the ToAuto manual that came with mine is incredibly helpful. They did a great job. Thanks for liking my comment
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
@@ParanormalHorrorArtist Oh my! Yes, using the correct extension cord is important. And no, it should not be getting hot. That indicated too much resistance or too great a load being carried by it.
@terryaultman2339 Жыл бұрын
You need to anneal that after every third reduction
@evanoraad9059 Жыл бұрын
Well done ...
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
Thank you Evano!
@johnsullivan5885 Жыл бұрын
Very nice video
@johnsullivan5885 Жыл бұрын
I have 2 ozs of gold flakes to smelt, with a little black sand mixed in, any tips? Should the borax I ordered remove the black sand
@paulwiggins183 Жыл бұрын
I would consider all of these frames too heavy for a beginner... the Grobet 3'' weighs 3.5 oz and runs about $15 from Rio Grande. These big frames make more sense as your wrist gets stronger.
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
Do you mean to heavy or too big?
@paulwiggins183 Жыл бұрын
@@janearcher3834 I think I'm trying to say too heavy. After using the heavier German saws for years I bought this Grobet and became one with the universe right then and there. Much easier. These other saws are gorgeous but I just can't give this one up. Seriously, for me it was about strength and muscle memory in the right hand. It took some time. And if the work requires 5/0 blades you are definitely going to need a lighter saw frame.
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
@@paulwiggins183 The problems most people have when they are learning to saw is getting the blade tension right and learning how much pressure to apply to the saw blade against the metal they are cutting. One would only need to use a 5/0 saw blade if they were cutting thin metal (22-24 gauge metal). The rule of thumb is that you want to have three teeth touching the metal at all times and not more or less. Now this is a rule of thumb and it works well for smooth cutting. However, for artistic reasons or personal preference people go outside those guidelines all the time. About the weight for beginner, that may have worked for you, but as I mentioned it isn't a primary problem for most beginners. The 3" Grobet is not a saw that is commonly used in the US, so I have not used one. It comes with a fixed and a moveable frame (like the German saw frame). The problem I would anticipate for a beginner would be the shallow throat, which is already a source of frustration for beginners starting out with a 4" saw frame. It is one reason I don't have any small saw frames. The Knew saw frame is very light, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for a beginner. It is one of the more expensive saw frames and can be a little fiddly to learn to get the tension right. Here is some good information about sawing, including charts on which blades to use with which gauge metal. pepetools.com/blogs/news/what-size-saw-blade-to-use-tips-and-advice-on-using-a-piercing-saw
@paulwiggins183 Жыл бұрын
@@janearcher3834 In reply... blade tension is not an issue with the Swiss saw. The blade goes to the stop and no further. And the tension is correct. I've taught some beginners and there is certainly no substitute for time behind the saw... jewelry making is not supposed to be easy. And knowing how to back out of a cut is not a bad lesson to learn.
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
@@paulwiggins183 I look forward to trying it out.
@stephencoster9532 Жыл бұрын
Hiya Jane, Thank you for this video. I have a German Style and Knew Concepts and the red devil is by far the best. I do have large hands and arthritis but the handle is fine for me. Some jewellers insist the hole the blade goes into will become clogged with lemel and be a pain, not so, the blade is in the hole, how can anything else get in? Duh. So yes we agree that the Knew Concepts is very good, and yes I had a lot fewer broken blades, once I had the tension sorted it was sorted for every blade I put in it. Stay safe, Steve...
@janearcher3834 Жыл бұрын
I have them all. The times when my hands really hurt I use the Green Lion because it's large sized rubber handle demands the least grip from my hands. Thank you for your comment.
@makenchips2 жыл бұрын
Jane, good review - when doing mass review please do it in metric (grams) finer and numerical review. The most important to me would balance and handle control would be more important than mass. Your critiques comments and observation are very good. Being critical or opinionated is not a detriment but an assist in my opinion! I like critical thinking from anyone, as I am also when it comes to tool and tool design. Very small changes to a tool can make a difference to the performance or feel to the craftsperson example the same as a sharp or dull chisels is to a carver or woodworker. Hardness of the steel, the balance, length, thickness, handle shape-length-shape, species of wood, metal, or plastic the overall appearance and appeal! Steven Columbus Michigan
@janearcher38342 жыл бұрын
Steven, thank you for your comment. I will take that into consideration going forward.
@flyerphil77082 жыл бұрын
No smelting going on there at all. Just melting!
@janearcher38342 жыл бұрын
That is correct. I don't smelt - just melt. However, this furnace can be used for smelting if that is what you need it for.
@flyerphil77082 жыл бұрын
@@janearcher3834 I doubt very much that the smelting process could be carried out in this furnace.
@jimbettridge31232 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jane!
@stacykropp5802 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thanks for the review. It looks like a wonderful furnace to have
@sarahsheffield6282 жыл бұрын
Excellent. Helped me decide
@peteblairakathemadscientist2 жыл бұрын
I am currently using one of the old school saw frames and have today decide I want a better frame. You video is fantastic, thanks. I had heard both the Knew and the Haymaker and wondered about the advantages of both. I sometime shy away from gimmicks which I had thought the tensioner on the Knew might be but after watching this video I will now order the Knew. Our local supplier is currently out of them but I will place my order anyway. Thanks again for the great reviews!
@CristinaFerro_Jewellery2 жыл бұрын
Hi, about the German model I learned to close it not with pressure in the sternum but near the shoulder, witch is easier and less hurtful...
@BlooStorm12 жыл бұрын
I just discovered your review. Thank you. Newbie question: where can I find designs to practice with? Thx in advance
@janearcher38342 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your comment. I did an internet search for 'Celtic knot designs'. Also Pinterest is a fantastic resource for designs and inspiration. Good luck!
@tywhitmire8603 жыл бұрын
I have had a Knew Concepts for several years now but I just purchased the Green Lion because I use much smaller size saw blades for pierce sawing and the Knew Concepts kept breaking the tip of my saw blades and my fingers were worn out from tightening the screws repeatedly. It's absolutely wonderful to saw with but the screw just would not keep holding the 5/0 blades and smaller. I even did the maintenance on the screw holding section and it didn't correct the problem. I am loving my Green Lion and it holds all sizes of blades without a problem at all. I can pierce saw and move the blade hands free of holding the frame. I'm really glad that I didn't get the Haymaker as a replacement as I considered it. Thank you so much for your review! Great info!
@22nola3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, I appreciate your comments. I’ve been piercing metal for a few years now and have been using my Green Lion for about three. Just my two cents, but choosing a saw is more emotional than science. I used my old starter German frame and was fine with it. I bought a Green Lion mainly because I liked its looks and compactness and I still do. The Knew saw is a bit too fussy and technical for me.
@samuelbyron82022 жыл бұрын
You all probably dont care but does anyone know a trick to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the account password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me!
@samuelbyron82022 жыл бұрын
@Bruno Taylor Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im in the hacking process atm. Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@samuelbyron82022 жыл бұрын
@Bruno Taylor It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy! Thanks so much you really help me out :D
@brunotaylor48722 жыл бұрын
@Samuel Byron Happy to help :)
@laurendehrone3 жыл бұрын
This video is fantastic! I'm teaching myself metalsmithing and I'm in the very beginning stages - it can be daunting... but not with this video! I without question am going to go with the Knew Concepts saw based on your video and blade load-ability. Thank you thank you for taking the time to do this!
@janearcher38342 жыл бұрын
Thank you Lauren. As a beginner, if you haven't already, you should consider joining the Inspiring Metalsmiths Jewelry Facebook page. We have lots support for beginners there, and lots of inspiration from talented and accomplished metalsmiths from all over the world. Watching KZread videos is one of the things we recommend for beginners. There are so many excellent metalsmiths who have made excellent tutorials here. Good luck.
@haidafella86513 жыл бұрын
I’ve seen that people have been having issues with blade slippage with the lion punch frame.. the plates that keep the blade have no teeth, so nothing to bite your blade
@haidafella86513 жыл бұрын
Seems they have fixed that
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
Yes, they have done a factory fix for that. Now those little plates have grooves in them to grab the blades. But if you have a LP frame which doesn't have grooves on the little plates, you can grind or file grooves into them.
@haidafella86513 жыл бұрын
@@janearcher3834 I’ve also seen that there is a secondary little bit of metal threaded up and over the aluminum frame at the bite.. I’m sure for grip, and to protect that pretty aluminum frame
@BabyJesus663 жыл бұрын
Great video and testing, I am looking to buy a new "expensive" saw (and hopefully much better) than my German saw. One thing I was curious about did it seem to take less time with one saw over the other. It would have been good to time each one to see if they had any major differences in time. Obviously changing the blade would probably take the most time for a broken blade, so I assume the Knew Concepts did best. But just curious if you noticed a difference in the time/effort it took in each of them. Thanks for the great video! This definitely helps me make a choice.
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
I did notice a difference. The least time was used with the Knew Concepts saw because it is so quick to undo the saw blade when moving the blade into a different hole to cut out. Also it did have the fewest broken blades. The next quickest was the Green Lion Saw. It had the next fewest broken blades. It also is easier to change out the saw blade. The German frame took the longest. Mostly because you have two joints to tighten or stabilize, and it had the most broken blades.
@lynneb.39353 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this honest review. I'm just starting out and just sent back a German-style saw frame - going to invest in the Knew Concepts now. The different type of blade insertion is very attractive for me, in addition to other qualities you mentioned. I wish you could compare the different styles of KC - and please make more videos. I'd love to see some of your creations, too.
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
Which styles of KC would you like me to compare? I do plan on making more videos. I am going through cancer treatment this year so things are drawn out a bit. I have a couple in the works right now. Thank you for your kind words.
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
Also, while the German saw frame is basic, it is good to have around for that reason. In case something goes wrong or you can't find your main saw frame (it does happen) it is a good backup. Or have some other saw frame as a back up. I still have my German saw frame hanging around. I am thinking of getting the Green Lion because it is beautiful, and I like beautiful tools.
@lynneb.39353 жыл бұрын
@@janearcher3834 Just noticed your reply. I'm keeping off social media lately to try to preserve (what's left of) my sanity. I was wondering if there was any advantage to the swivel version of this saw. I tried a German type saw, but I have limited mobility in my hands, and I found changing the blade difficult. Wishing you best of health - I have a niece who is a cancer survivor. ❤️
@AnnMeyer3 жыл бұрын
How does yours differ from the original design?
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
I'm not clear on the question. I didn't design anything. I just review four saw frames. Could you rephrase your question?
@AnnMeyer3 жыл бұрын
Sorry. I was referring to your Knew concepts saw. Mine is old. It worked well for several years but I can no longer keep the blade taught. I have tried replacing the knobs but that did not solve the problem.
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
@@AnnMeyer Ah, I see. I purchased my Knew frame about 5 years ago. I don't know how or if it has changed since it first came out. But I strongly urge you to call them and tell them what is going on. They are very responsive. Or you can email them. It may be that you need a part replaced.
@AnnMeyer3 жыл бұрын
Jane Archer Thank you
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
@@AnnMeyer You are welcome. Let me know how this works out.
@BostonCasemaker3 жыл бұрын
After years of watching people shill a product under the guise of conducting a review, it was exciting to see such a complete and objective examination of a product done. No product was slammed, and no product was panned. They do all have their advantages. For instance, I can’t stand the GL handle, but I love the hook on the front of it; I love the Knew when it is working well, but it really seems to pull right, and the turned aluminum handle on the Haymaker could certainly stand some knurling, etc. etc. Thank you so much for the review!!
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your kind words. I will pass on the suggestion about knurling the handle on the Haymaker. I think that is an excellent suggestion.
@graemeeasterbrook49313 жыл бұрын
Will you be doing more video's soon ?
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
Yes there will be. But I am undergoing treatment for cancer at this time and it is just taking me a lot longer to do than normal. The next video will be on soldering hold downs and soldering aids.
@utooth81143 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review of these frames. I didn't realise just how big those sawframes are. For many years I used the smallest of the "German" style. Changed over to a Grobet non-adjustable and couldn't be happier. Very light, compact and easy to use for long periods of time. Worth looking at as well.
@janearcher38342 жыл бұрын
Oh my where does the time go? I'm sorry I didn't see your comment earlier. I'm glad you are learning about the different options for saw frames. I have several different ones myself because sometimes I just feel like using a different one. Sometimes I need a different one. I like tools in general and do kind of collect them. Especially beautiful ones.
@utooth81142 жыл бұрын
Generally I use the German sawframe or Grobet. Only been in the trade since 1976. 😉 Have a great day.
@janearcher38342 жыл бұрын
@@utooth8114 Interesting. Your comment reminds me of a comment by a very talented Navajo/Dine jeweler, Mike Perry. He said he only uses the German saw frame and sees no need to look further for a different frame. If it works, why change? I get it. I recently bought the Green Lion frame. Not only have I coveted it for its design, but I am having problems with my thumb joint, and the large rubber handle is so much easier for me to grip when it is inflamed and in pain.
@paulwiggins183 Жыл бұрын
You are absolutely right about the Grobet... the only saw I would recommend for a beginner.
@airstudiogr3 жыл бұрын
I saw the Knew Consept Saw frame months ago and i want to buy it. Please tell me which exactly model is yours on the video? Thank you for the video, perfect and helpful
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
My Knew frame is the 5" Mk.IV HEAVY DUTY FRET SAW WITH LEVER TENSION. I just have not needed the swivel feature. Knew Concepts also has distributors on all continents.
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
My bad, my Knew Concepts frame is actually the 5" Mk.III FRET SAW WITH LEVER TENSION, not the heavy duty saw!
@CherylCohen3 жыл бұрын
This was a great service, Jane. Thank you. I have three of the four, and like them all very much. I also like having a selection, because, like you, I love beautiful tools.
@amkreationz3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for great review! The question I have for you is, did you use a new saw blade in each saw or the same one multiple times?
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
Yes, I put a new saw blade in when I started with the next frame. That is the only way to evaluate each on par. I broke two saw blades with the german saw, one with the Green Lion, none with the Knew Concepts, and one with the Haymaker.
@amkreationz3 жыл бұрын
Jane Archer Thank you!
@10Gables3 жыл бұрын
Love your fuel! :D Seriously, thank you for taking the time to do such a thorough review of different saws here. It's interesting that you aren't a fan of the small wing nuts on the Haymaker - that's one of the reasons I like it :D I have very tiny hands, so they are perfect for me. Saws are such a personal decision. I think the best way to decide on one is to try them out if possible.
@janearcher38343 жыл бұрын
I agree that saws are a personal preference. Hopefully the reviews help people make decisions about which one to choose since most people will never get the chance to 'try one out' without buying one - other than the inexpensive German saw frame.
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Fantastic review! Thanks so much. Can I ask what the swivel model of the Knew saw is called? You mentioned there's another model that has a swivel function.
Thank you for your kind response. You can find the swivel replacement blade clamps here: www.knewconcepts.com/replacement-swivel-blade-clamps-for-mkiii-saws.php or here: www.knewconcepts.com/replacement-swivel-blade-clamps-for-mkiv-saws.php You just need to make sure that they match the saw frame that you have. You can reach out to Knew if you are unsure which frame you have.
Great video! I love that you show the whole process and explain your thoughts
Where are you buying your casting grain silver from? I am wanting a reliable source knowing I'm getting real silver and hopefully not taking chances off ebay.
It was hard on the rolling mill because it needed anneling
Oh it got annealed. It just takes a lot to reduce thick silver. One thing I probably should have done prior to running through the rolling mill was to hammer it, then anneal it. I have since heard that helps close any voids in the metal, or reduce them.
Please stop calling it SMELTING, unless you are super heating stone ores to extract the metals.
About time someone said something! Lmao! Sorry .
She's about to poison everyone in you tube land What! Not with Boric acid roach powder as a flux? Wowzers Inhale that and you will have a bad day
@@terranceborer7614borax is used as a flux for gold and silver. Mule Team borax is the same borax that's sold as flux. Check any jewelry suppliers flux, it's borax. 🤦
I think you are a very skilled person! Ty so much for making the video. I'm interested in smelting gold. I play in dirt 😅so its great you might do this with silver. Do you think i could make a good go of it as a one man op. I hit the skim bars every year. The gold accumulates i smelt it into a bar with that thing?
You can definitely melt gold in this. You wouldn't be able to smelt it as in separate it out from other metals. You would need a different operation for that. But definitely good for melting metals.
thank you I have since found this out. but these definitely are cool little units @@janearcher3834
Thank you Jane. Might I suggest that you get a sheet or two of either Hardiboard or Cement tile backer board to have on hand. You might prop up a piece behind the furnace to protect your window. The constant heating and cooling is not good for glass, even tempered. Around my metal melting work areas I put some of the cement board loose on the floor. You can't under estimate that one day you will have a spill or a crucible or mold will crack or break. Happens to me all the time. Glad to see you have gloves and an Extinguisher. You might keep a bucket of sand in a metal bucket on hand. I can't see if you have a leather apron. You can pick up most of what you need at Harbor Freight but I am sure you go there all the time for your picks, misc tools, and supplies. Anyway, great video. I had a Kerr at one time but sold it and now looking to get back into teaching Lost Wax and would like to offer my students this alternative for their own furnace. I have evaluated it in my lab and it's a good choice. The one I have does have the internal overtemp safety switch, something to look for if you open it up, but I believe these are U.L. You can add the switch which looks like a little top hat in series with the line wire and mount it in your unit if it is not there. Randy
Thank you for your suggestions. With furnaces like these you only have to worry about a heat column above the furnace. There is very little heat dissipated outward. What do you use your bucket of sand for? I have my quench water on my soldering table just out of sight. That would take any heat out of any spilled metal that got off the tile. And I do love Harbor Freight!
@@janearcher3834 Quench water is good for quick cooling metal or an investment casting but for fires you never want to use water around metal. It will cause a steam explosion, even when used on the smallest amount of hot metal. Even if the metal looks solid it can be liquid in the middle. Keep a bucket of sand or get a bag of baking soda used for sand/soda blasting and keep it in a metal bucket. If you should have a spill and something should smolder or catch fire, dump the bucket on the spill. BUt never ever throw water on a fire if there is hot or molten metal or you may end up with metal flying onto you, or spreading the fire more.
i is cAtsting metol 😻dur dur dur
Well done review, thank you! I was wondering if I would like the Knew saw and you answered my question. No more chest bruising for me! Is there any drawback with the Knew saw?
Thank you for your kind words. What I hear most from people about their frustration with the Knew is that they have a hard time getting the saw blade to hold in the screw clamp. I have never had that problem. But clearly others have. The second issue is getting the tension correct using the lever on the model I have. That, like so many things in metalsmithing is a matter of practice. Once you get it you shouldn't need to change the settings on your saw frame. FYI, Knew saw frames are used in woodworking and many other applications, not just for silversmithing. Have a great day!
@@janearcher3834 hi. I appreciate your response to my comment! I need to find a replacement for my green lion saw (yes, I thought it was attractive tool, too), or, buy a chest plate to wear when piercing/sawing a project. That makes sense, trying to master the tension. It would have been lovely for them to stay how many turns of the tension dial knob to turn for sawing metal, for instance. I can't imagine the tension needing to be different from sawing copper from silver. Then, again, I'm new to piercing and sawing. The second comment you mentioned, hard time getting the saw blade to hold in the screw clamp, are you talking about when you unscrew the bottom dial knob to take out the blade and then put it back in and re-tighten it? I'm trying to find a thorough review on the saw, and I'm only getting positive reviews. No complaints and no explanation how to avoid/fix the negative issue that you stated. Could you speak a little more about the issue of the saw blade holding in the screw clamp?.
How long should it cool down after having been on for 3 hours?
Thank you for your question. I don't know what you intend to do with the unit or the crucible after three hours, but think of it this way. You don't want to shock either the graphite crucible or the unit. That could cause cracks or weaken it. So you can add more metal to the crucible after three hours and it will probably be okay. You can probably turn the unite back on again after three hours without any damage. I let my crucible and unit air cool until it was room temperature before putting it away. Did that help?
It’s that I have more than 3 hours of work (smelting paydirt) however the manual says after 3 consecutive hours of use to turn it off to cool down before continuing. It doesn’t mention how long.
@@annclark9277 That is probably to protect the thermocouple and heating filaments. Prolonged use can degrade them. Although that is the same for multiple uses (based on my experience with kilns). I would say just let it cool off till it is warm, not hot. But that could still take a few hours.
Thank you Jane. Be interesting to know how much you have used the thing & how it has stood up. Pussy cats always good too. I'm looking at one of these for clock part casting from the tons of brass scrap I make.
I haven't used it much since this video. I have been very busy with my first job (which pays the bills). But I know from previously working with graphite and kilns that the thing that is likely to go first is the graphite mold. It will degrade faster than the unit. But they are easy to replace. ToAuto sells replacements which are relatively inexpensive and you can probably find them on Amazon as well. If the unit fails, it is likely because the thermocouple is no longer good. ToAuto doesn't sell thermocouples for this unit, but if you can find it on this unit, then you could see if one of the numerous thermocouples on Amazon would be a good replacement. Thermocouples are cheap. www.toautotool.com/collections/smelting-tools/products/pre-sale-graphite-crucible-metal-melting-ingot-mould
I’m planning to buy one, but is it safe to use indoor ? Any aluminium fumes ? Any risk of fire ?
I used it indoors. It is as safe as the setup you create. As you can see in the video I put two layers of large tiles underneath the unit and underneath where I would pour. Also I created a wall of firebrick. The most likely problem would be if the crucible cracked and the contents ran out. Or when pouring you missed your mold and poured onto the tile surface. I would not say that there is never a zero risk of fire. But you can set yourself up for success by making sure there is nothing above the unit since there will be a heat column coming off of it, and nothing very close on the sides. Also make sure you have a heavy duty grounded extension cord that you can easily access to plug and unplug the unit. Neither the power cord or the extension cord should be underneath anything. Not under carpets or furniture, etc. You can see it in the video, about three feet to the right of the unit I have my acetylene torch soldering set up. So I have fire/flame in my studio all the time. But again it is in an environment where I have limited the risks. I also have three fire extinguishers nearby. One literally next to all this on the floor, and two at the entrance to my studio. And I check to make sure they are fully charged periodically. About aluminum fumes, there were none coming from the unit.
Thank you for your detailed explanation!❤
@@chatwitch6 If you aren't already, you should consider joining the Inspiring Metalsmiths Jewelry Facebook group. I am one of the admins there. We have lots of members who help out with metalsmithing questions as well as a place to show your work, and be inspired by other people's work. It's a very big community, so every topic is covered.
Your video was the first one i watched for reference. I still use your video today. Awesome job!! I just got a Good Crafter after my other China furnace fried its fuse. I opened it up but was ruined beyond repair. I recommend getting a Good Crafter because they are shipped from Amazon and the US directly. To Auto is also good from what I've read. Make sure you guys change out your crucible if worn. You don't want it breaking and ruining your electric melter.
Thank you for your kind reply. And yes, a degraded or damaged crucible will ruin your equipment.
@Jane Archer Just wanted to tell you that I also had been using the wrong power cord extension. Lol. I could've just plugged the machine only with the cord supplied but my needs were different. Luckily my dad told me what kind of extension to use. Good thing I noticed the cord getting hot. And one more thing I'm excited to tell you Jane is that the ToAuto manual that came with mine is incredibly helpful. They did a great job. Thanks for liking my comment
@@ParanormalHorrorArtist Oh my! Yes, using the correct extension cord is important. And no, it should not be getting hot. That indicated too much resistance or too great a load being carried by it.
You need to anneal that after every third reduction
Well done ...
Thank you Evano!
Very nice video
I have 2 ozs of gold flakes to smelt, with a little black sand mixed in, any tips? Should the borax I ordered remove the black sand
I would consider all of these frames too heavy for a beginner... the Grobet 3'' weighs 3.5 oz and runs about $15 from Rio Grande. These big frames make more sense as your wrist gets stronger.
Do you mean to heavy or too big?
@@janearcher3834 I think I'm trying to say too heavy. After using the heavier German saws for years I bought this Grobet and became one with the universe right then and there. Much easier. These other saws are gorgeous but I just can't give this one up. Seriously, for me it was about strength and muscle memory in the right hand. It took some time. And if the work requires 5/0 blades you are definitely going to need a lighter saw frame.
@@paulwiggins183 The problems most people have when they are learning to saw is getting the blade tension right and learning how much pressure to apply to the saw blade against the metal they are cutting. One would only need to use a 5/0 saw blade if they were cutting thin metal (22-24 gauge metal). The rule of thumb is that you want to have three teeth touching the metal at all times and not more or less. Now this is a rule of thumb and it works well for smooth cutting. However, for artistic reasons or personal preference people go outside those guidelines all the time. About the weight for beginner, that may have worked for you, but as I mentioned it isn't a primary problem for most beginners. The 3" Grobet is not a saw that is commonly used in the US, so I have not used one. It comes with a fixed and a moveable frame (like the German saw frame). The problem I would anticipate for a beginner would be the shallow throat, which is already a source of frustration for beginners starting out with a 4" saw frame. It is one reason I don't have any small saw frames. The Knew saw frame is very light, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for a beginner. It is one of the more expensive saw frames and can be a little fiddly to learn to get the tension right. Here is some good information about sawing, including charts on which blades to use with which gauge metal. pepetools.com/blogs/news/what-size-saw-blade-to-use-tips-and-advice-on-using-a-piercing-saw
@@janearcher3834 In reply... blade tension is not an issue with the Swiss saw. The blade goes to the stop and no further. And the tension is correct. I've taught some beginners and there is certainly no substitute for time behind the saw... jewelry making is not supposed to be easy. And knowing how to back out of a cut is not a bad lesson to learn.
@@paulwiggins183 I look forward to trying it out.
Hiya Jane, Thank you for this video. I have a German Style and Knew Concepts and the red devil is by far the best. I do have large hands and arthritis but the handle is fine for me. Some jewellers insist the hole the blade goes into will become clogged with lemel and be a pain, not so, the blade is in the hole, how can anything else get in? Duh. So yes we agree that the Knew Concepts is very good, and yes I had a lot fewer broken blades, once I had the tension sorted it was sorted for every blade I put in it. Stay safe, Steve...
I have them all. The times when my hands really hurt I use the Green Lion because it's large sized rubber handle demands the least grip from my hands. Thank you for your comment.
Jane, good review - when doing mass review please do it in metric (grams) finer and numerical review. The most important to me would balance and handle control would be more important than mass. Your critiques comments and observation are very good. Being critical or opinionated is not a detriment but an assist in my opinion! I like critical thinking from anyone, as I am also when it comes to tool and tool design. Very small changes to a tool can make a difference to the performance or feel to the craftsperson example the same as a sharp or dull chisels is to a carver or woodworker. Hardness of the steel, the balance, length, thickness, handle shape-length-shape, species of wood, metal, or plastic the overall appearance and appeal! Steven Columbus Michigan
Steven, thank you for your comment. I will take that into consideration going forward.
No smelting going on there at all. Just melting!
That is correct. I don't smelt - just melt. However, this furnace can be used for smelting if that is what you need it for.
@@janearcher3834 I doubt very much that the smelting process could be carried out in this furnace.
Thanks Jane!
Great video. Thanks for the review. It looks like a wonderful furnace to have
Excellent. Helped me decide
I am currently using one of the old school saw frames and have today decide I want a better frame. You video is fantastic, thanks. I had heard both the Knew and the Haymaker and wondered about the advantages of both. I sometime shy away from gimmicks which I had thought the tensioner on the Knew might be but after watching this video I will now order the Knew. Our local supplier is currently out of them but I will place my order anyway. Thanks again for the great reviews!
Hi, about the German model I learned to close it not with pressure in the sternum but near the shoulder, witch is easier and less hurtful...
I just discovered your review. Thank you. Newbie question: where can I find designs to practice with? Thx in advance
Thank you for your comment. I did an internet search for 'Celtic knot designs'. Also Pinterest is a fantastic resource for designs and inspiration. Good luck!
I have had a Knew Concepts for several years now but I just purchased the Green Lion because I use much smaller size saw blades for pierce sawing and the Knew Concepts kept breaking the tip of my saw blades and my fingers were worn out from tightening the screws repeatedly. It's absolutely wonderful to saw with but the screw just would not keep holding the 5/0 blades and smaller. I even did the maintenance on the screw holding section and it didn't correct the problem. I am loving my Green Lion and it holds all sizes of blades without a problem at all. I can pierce saw and move the blade hands free of holding the frame. I'm really glad that I didn't get the Haymaker as a replacement as I considered it. Thank you so much for your review! Great info!
Thanks for the video, I appreciate your comments. I’ve been piercing metal for a few years now and have been using my Green Lion for about three. Just my two cents, but choosing a saw is more emotional than science. I used my old starter German frame and was fine with it. I bought a Green Lion mainly because I liked its looks and compactness and I still do. The Knew saw is a bit too fussy and technical for me.
You all probably dont care but does anyone know a trick to log back into an instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the account password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me!
@Bruno Taylor Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site thru google and im in the hacking process atm. Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Bruno Taylor It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy! Thanks so much you really help me out :D
@Samuel Byron Happy to help :)
This video is fantastic! I'm teaching myself metalsmithing and I'm in the very beginning stages - it can be daunting... but not with this video! I without question am going to go with the Knew Concepts saw based on your video and blade load-ability. Thank you thank you for taking the time to do this!
Thank you Lauren. As a beginner, if you haven't already, you should consider joining the Inspiring Metalsmiths Jewelry Facebook page. We have lots support for beginners there, and lots of inspiration from talented and accomplished metalsmiths from all over the world. Watching KZread videos is one of the things we recommend for beginners. There are so many excellent metalsmiths who have made excellent tutorials here. Good luck.
I’ve seen that people have been having issues with blade slippage with the lion punch frame.. the plates that keep the blade have no teeth, so nothing to bite your blade
Seems they have fixed that
Yes, they have done a factory fix for that. Now those little plates have grooves in them to grab the blades. But if you have a LP frame which doesn't have grooves on the little plates, you can grind or file grooves into them.
@@janearcher3834 I’ve also seen that there is a secondary little bit of metal threaded up and over the aluminum frame at the bite.. I’m sure for grip, and to protect that pretty aluminum frame
Great video and testing, I am looking to buy a new "expensive" saw (and hopefully much better) than my German saw. One thing I was curious about did it seem to take less time with one saw over the other. It would have been good to time each one to see if they had any major differences in time. Obviously changing the blade would probably take the most time for a broken blade, so I assume the Knew Concepts did best. But just curious if you noticed a difference in the time/effort it took in each of them. Thanks for the great video! This definitely helps me make a choice.
I did notice a difference. The least time was used with the Knew Concepts saw because it is so quick to undo the saw blade when moving the blade into a different hole to cut out. Also it did have the fewest broken blades. The next quickest was the Green Lion Saw. It had the next fewest broken blades. It also is easier to change out the saw blade. The German frame took the longest. Mostly because you have two joints to tighten or stabilize, and it had the most broken blades.
Thank you so much for this honest review. I'm just starting out and just sent back a German-style saw frame - going to invest in the Knew Concepts now. The different type of blade insertion is very attractive for me, in addition to other qualities you mentioned. I wish you could compare the different styles of KC - and please make more videos. I'd love to see some of your creations, too.
Which styles of KC would you like me to compare? I do plan on making more videos. I am going through cancer treatment this year so things are drawn out a bit. I have a couple in the works right now. Thank you for your kind words.
Also, while the German saw frame is basic, it is good to have around for that reason. In case something goes wrong or you can't find your main saw frame (it does happen) it is a good backup. Or have some other saw frame as a back up. I still have my German saw frame hanging around. I am thinking of getting the Green Lion because it is beautiful, and I like beautiful tools.
@@janearcher3834 Just noticed your reply. I'm keeping off social media lately to try to preserve (what's left of) my sanity. I was wondering if there was any advantage to the swivel version of this saw. I tried a German type saw, but I have limited mobility in my hands, and I found changing the blade difficult. Wishing you best of health - I have a niece who is a cancer survivor. ❤️
How does yours differ from the original design?
I'm not clear on the question. I didn't design anything. I just review four saw frames. Could you rephrase your question?
Sorry. I was referring to your Knew concepts saw. Mine is old. It worked well for several years but I can no longer keep the blade taught. I have tried replacing the knobs but that did not solve the problem.
@@AnnMeyer Ah, I see. I purchased my Knew frame about 5 years ago. I don't know how or if it has changed since it first came out. But I strongly urge you to call them and tell them what is going on. They are very responsive. Or you can email them. It may be that you need a part replaced.
Jane Archer Thank you
@@AnnMeyer You are welcome. Let me know how this works out.
After years of watching people shill a product under the guise of conducting a review, it was exciting to see such a complete and objective examination of a product done. No product was slammed, and no product was panned. They do all have their advantages. For instance, I can’t stand the GL handle, but I love the hook on the front of it; I love the Knew when it is working well, but it really seems to pull right, and the turned aluminum handle on the Haymaker could certainly stand some knurling, etc. etc. Thank you so much for the review!!
Thank you for your kind words. I will pass on the suggestion about knurling the handle on the Haymaker. I think that is an excellent suggestion.
Will you be doing more video's soon ?
Yes there will be. But I am undergoing treatment for cancer at this time and it is just taking me a lot longer to do than normal. The next video will be on soldering hold downs and soldering aids.
Thanks for the review of these frames. I didn't realise just how big those sawframes are. For many years I used the smallest of the "German" style. Changed over to a Grobet non-adjustable and couldn't be happier. Very light, compact and easy to use for long periods of time. Worth looking at as well.
Oh my where does the time go? I'm sorry I didn't see your comment earlier. I'm glad you are learning about the different options for saw frames. I have several different ones myself because sometimes I just feel like using a different one. Sometimes I need a different one. I like tools in general and do kind of collect them. Especially beautiful ones.
Generally I use the German sawframe or Grobet. Only been in the trade since 1976. 😉 Have a great day.
@@utooth8114 Interesting. Your comment reminds me of a comment by a very talented Navajo/Dine jeweler, Mike Perry. He said he only uses the German saw frame and sees no need to look further for a different frame. If it works, why change? I get it. I recently bought the Green Lion frame. Not only have I coveted it for its design, but I am having problems with my thumb joint, and the large rubber handle is so much easier for me to grip when it is inflamed and in pain.
You are absolutely right about the Grobet... the only saw I would recommend for a beginner.
I saw the Knew Consept Saw frame months ago and i want to buy it. Please tell me which exactly model is yours on the video? Thank you for the video, perfect and helpful
My Knew frame is the 5" Mk.IV HEAVY DUTY FRET SAW WITH LEVER TENSION. I just have not needed the swivel feature. Knew Concepts also has distributors on all continents.
My bad, my Knew Concepts frame is actually the 5" Mk.III FRET SAW WITH LEVER TENSION, not the heavy duty saw!
This was a great service, Jane. Thank you. I have three of the four, and like them all very much. I also like having a selection, because, like you, I love beautiful tools.
Thank you for great review! The question I have for you is, did you use a new saw blade in each saw or the same one multiple times?
Yes, I put a new saw blade in when I started with the next frame. That is the only way to evaluate each on par. I broke two saw blades with the german saw, one with the Green Lion, none with the Knew Concepts, and one with the Haymaker.
Jane Archer Thank you!
Love your fuel! :D Seriously, thank you for taking the time to do such a thorough review of different saws here. It's interesting that you aren't a fan of the small wing nuts on the Haymaker - that's one of the reasons I like it :D I have very tiny hands, so they are perfect for me. Saws are such a personal decision. I think the best way to decide on one is to try them out if possible.
I agree that saws are a personal preference. Hopefully the reviews help people make decisions about which one to choose since most people will never get the chance to 'try one out' without buying one - other than the inexpensive German saw frame.
Thanks Jane for your time and effort!