i cant imagine what it would be like to live in 1d
@stm7810Күн бұрын
I think thickening the line to be the full height of the screen is more accurate to a flat lander, because just like how we don't have empty grey space for the 4th dimension, their whole vision is this line. I'd love to play this as a full game, be it a shooter, an RPG or anything, just feeling like a resident of this world. maybe even have the flat land experience of learning what the 3D world looks like to your 2D character when the sphere shows up and lifts you.
@ChrexterКүн бұрын
Very cool concept, man. The final result was impressive
@VGamingJunkieVT2 күн бұрын
Futurama delved into this concept, where you can’t see around something in 2D Space.
@Bruno_Swag3 күн бұрын
Great video! But as a nitpick: sidscrollers and the like are 2D they just don't come from the perspective of something in that 2D world. Its effectivly like being a god looking at our world. We still are in 3D just being observed by something outside of those 3D constraints.
@davidbrinnen3 күн бұрын
5:22 isn't there some correction for this kind of distortion that is occurring at the edge of the FOV to make it appear more natural?
@Pechugo833 күн бұрын
I'm not a coding expert, but couldn't you simply trace rays from the player to every corner in the game? Then, the rendering would simply boil down to making colored segments over the angle generated between every 2 conected corners of the same polygon. You'd probably have to make some adjustments if 2 shapes collided or if any shape was concave; but none of that happens in the video Awesome work tho! Really great explanation and graphics
@TessaLucy4 күн бұрын
I think what you said about depth in the fog section is questionable since your game did have perspective and depth before adding the shading Edit: for instance, you can tell something is further away from how little its size changes when you move, and you can tell what shape something is by viewing it from many angles. You should be able to tell apart the regular polygons by measuring how the width varies with distance and angle, even without a static reference point I didn’t make it clear im talking about mathematically rather than practically
@Mecharnie_Dobbs4 күн бұрын
3:29 Surprised face
@Mecharnie_Dobbs4 күн бұрын
3:30 Surprised face
@Randy145124 күн бұрын
This is really interesting to me for the connection to 2d SONAR arrays... the output is very similar to your games display, except you usually have the previous outputs scrolling down the screen so you can see the relative movement
@Randy145124 күн бұрын
For more context to what I'm getting at, you can look up "passive sonar waterfall display"
@-aid40845 күн бұрын
Honestly a raycast maze game on Scratch fits the definition of a 2d game really well.
@xXrobloxpro123Xx6 күн бұрын
wipsom - Today at 12:05 AM The psychology behind Red Dead Redemption 2 is actually quite genius, I wouldn’t be surprised if psychologists had been part of its development. The game starts by introducing you to the protagonist, Arthur Morgan, but tells you very little about him. He is nothing more than a stranger, a mere fictional character to the player. The player, therefore, has no problem with cold-blooded murder and other heinous crimes. But then, the player begins to see how they can relate to Arthur. How he has his ups and downs. How he has friends, some closer than others. Even subtle things, such as his movements, body language, or facial expressions. Even how he forgets the lyrics to songs he’s singing with other camp members. The player begins to get attached to him, get immersed in the game and its realistic graphics, see him as a friend, perhaps. This is usually timed perfectly with when Arthur realizes that he is a bad man, and that he needs to change. The player, who now also sees the extreme realism contained within the NPCs, mere background characters, who have lives, families, jobs, in this virtual world, begins to feel bad for what they do to NPCs, and also feel that it is not right to let Arthur do something wrong. They want to help a friend, as all good friends do. WARNING: SPOILERS! On the final mission, when Arthur loses his horse, the player may not know that Arthur will die in just a few minutes. They will be angry, and sad, that their horse has been killed, completely out of their control. Then they will see Arthur give his stuff to John. This is when they will realize what is coming and that they cannot stop it. They will either choose to help John or go get the money. Whatever they do, they will fight Micah, and they will lose. They have no other option. They will see the person that they have spent every moment of the game with, die. Out of their control. They will be sad that he died, and also sad that the game is over. But then they will see that they have come back. As John. And they will be happy that there is more game, but still sad that they can no longer play as Arthur, even though they were wishing they could play as John again in the beginning of the game. One failing point, however, is the gang members, especially Hosea and Lenny. The game makes it clear that their deaths hit Arthur pretty hard, but the game doesn’t have you interact with them enough to make it hit the player. Lenny was many people’s favorite gang member, but his death should have impacted the player just the same as Arthur’s death. Hosea was even worse. The player only knew Hosea as the man who raised Arthur, but never got to interact with him much. At least Arthur and Lenny had fun at the saloon in Valentine.
@dagamerboi6 күн бұрын
the non "distance aided" raymarching isn't called raymarching, it's ray stepping
@vjay42976 күн бұрын
You should not be using a line for 2D. It should fill in the whole width of the screen. A flatlander have no perception of height and hence it can only be described as bands filling whole viewport. Cheers
@Ciprian-Amarandei6 күн бұрын
But your game is 1D not 2D
@HUSSEIN-3136 күн бұрын
But how can the character see things if they have no width?
@HUSSEIN-3136 күн бұрын
I mean, If we saw things from the character perspective, Objects will only have height and depth right?
@Greeen3Boi76 күн бұрын
U can’t c anything in the 2nd dimension as a 3rd dimensional being u can only see 2d and 2d beings see 1d so we just can’t bro we can only see 2d
@jesusvera79416 күн бұрын
so... why is this computationally exhaustive? i never thought pixels would require that much computational power, i mean, minecraft runs pretty good and i dont think it is casting rays from the camera, from what i understood, after doom, quake introduced a very interesting 3D rendering which based on vertex position, not ray tracing as wolfenstein.
@_-___________7 күн бұрын
Well.... It's technically a 3d game. Why? Time. **smack!** owww. I just hit myself for being annoying.
@multiplysixbynine7 күн бұрын
I’m surprised you went with ray marching and signed distance functions. I think rasterization (project and draw the objects into the scene) or ray tracing (perform ray-object intersection tests analytically) would be much more efficient and perhaps easier to program too.
@Erstus8 күн бұрын
In a 3D world, having 2 eyes is what allows us to see 3D. If we close 1 eye, we just see a 2D image. Similarly, in a 2D world, a character with only 1 eye sees 1D. But if they also have 2 eyes, they could actually see 2D. This could perhaps be somehow interpreted as line thickness.
@theneonbop8 күн бұрын
You could actually do path traced lighting for a game like this, that would be pretty funny
@smileyp45359 күн бұрын
I think another reason is that you don't actually really see laser beams anyway, the only way you see them is if they are shot through fog so "visible" lasers aren't even really realistic anyway 😂
@Neptoid9 күн бұрын
Exposure of lasers in smoke makes them whiter. For a camera that can see their color it is single colored
@Neptoid9 күн бұрын
3rd person 2D game
@cube2fox9 күн бұрын
If (non first person) 2D games show a true 2D slice of a 3D world, you should be e.g. able to see the insides of Mario, of enemies, of question mark blocks etc. Also, you shouldn't be able to see any background or foreground stuff like clouds or bushes. Everything should look like a slice of an MRI scan. 🤔
@FireToasterYT9 күн бұрын
Bro you know 2D is supposed to be x and y the only difference of that and 3d is 3d has z so now I’m asking you why did you make it wi5out the y because now it’s 1D.
@mynameisben1239 күн бұрын
So when we say we watch a “3D” movie with two different images that merge in our brain, it would be like these flat land creatures saying they are watching a “2D” movie by watching this type of content with a different image in each eye to give depth perception to this line.
@hyp0crite6929 күн бұрын
Oh, what about 2d no mans sky? Flat earth realized lmao
@tjb31719 күн бұрын
this is awesome, loved the video :)
@supermaximglitchy110 күн бұрын
So what I’ve discovered from watching this 3D see things in 2D (if you look with 1 eye there is no depth perception) our eyes are like the camera, since we have two there are two cameras 2D beings see things in 1D because it’s a single line 1D beings would be blind because they see no dimension
@nivmiz010 күн бұрын
You're absolutely right! Things that see, see in one dimension less than they exist in. However a small correction would be that a 1D being would see in 0 dimensions, which is usually interpreted as being a single point. So the vision of a 1D being would be one point (or, if we're talking a video game representation, it could be a single pixel).
@JMBrands10 күн бұрын
I made a game for school that was very similar to this concept, it was just a simple game where you had to find the exit portal in randomly generated mazes, I didn't know about ray marching, but I implemented the simple marching with fixed size steps, I also added height that varies with distance to help with depth perception
@nivmiz010 күн бұрын
So cool to hear you did something similar!
@no.99210 күн бұрын
This is so cool, i hope I'll see complete game.
@nivmiz010 күн бұрын
Thanks so much!
@Ļøľŵüttt11 күн бұрын
now make a 1D game
@land302114 күн бұрын
Neat!!! I saw someone else do the same thing with the 1D view, but they never really elaborated on it, nor did they include any game mechanics. Really impressed that this wasn't just a repeat of that video! I already typed a prior comment that joked that your video was clickbait(yeah I've become a bit of a squidward cause of the clickbait & (bad)commentary slop online that I've bore witness to), glad I deleted it. Will refer back to a copy of its contents to remind myself of my cynical nature & that I need to get better and touch some grass every once in a while.
@nivmiz013 күн бұрын
Really appreciate that! Glad you ended up liking it, regardless of the slight clickbait 😉
@ruzgar137214 күн бұрын
In order to see in 3 dimensions you have to be a 4 dimensional being yourself
@creakiap16 күн бұрын
Amazing video! That really reminds me of the way Doom projects 2D map as 3D environment. But rather than adding a dimension, we remove one.
@nivmiz013 күн бұрын
Thank you!
@FireDasher2217 күн бұрын
Rays in raymarching don't step by a constant amount, they step by the distance to the closest object ( minimum of all objects' distances )
@nivmiz013 күн бұрын
I explain the difference in the video, the most basic form of raymarching is just that - marching along a ray, with a constant length. Distance-Aided Raymarching, or Sphere-Assisted Raymarching, is the style you mention and that I implement later in the video!
@1kayo17 күн бұрын
I luv the idea of a world just a line And I love the game you made .. ... I actually tried to imagine how it would be if I was in a 2d world before .. And came to the conclusion that it is impossible .. In order for a line to exist in the real world it should have a height (the third dimension) no matter how thin the line is When the height is 0 it basically disappears..... .. 2d is only possible in math and Measurementing ... But its still fun to imagine yourself in a really thin world.. like having my eyes in the edge of my body in order to see lmao....and can't have a Digestive system or a mouth because that will divide my body into 2 parts💀
@Snowmon8918 күн бұрын
Okay, I'm sorry but the one major flaw in Flatland's logic is that there is no 3rd dimension, thus you CANNOT SEE in Flatland. Why? Because there is no width from which you'll be able to see the world by. We see a line on a page because just like the computer screen we have a third view of which to see from. However, if you try to see that same line on the page while it's perfectly flat, it too would be indistinguishable from the rest of the paper. Mind you, it might help if we were the same "thickness" as the paper, but even then you'd perceive NOTHING.
@andrewmoorehead968118 күн бұрын
Now do light cycle racing.
@matt92hun18 күн бұрын
I think it would make more sense to stretch the line to the full height of your screen/window, because imo an infinite "height" of just the same repeating line makes more sense of representing something that has no "height" variation than a limited height view does. It could also be interesting to see a 2d patformer from first person, where the width is infinite.
@SupasitPhungrattana20 күн бұрын
So how we can look into 4 dimensions shape in 3 dimensions view then?
@segganew20 күн бұрын
"if you play any FPS games" *Shows footage of Minecraft*
@leviofun179821 күн бұрын
What is your character standing and walking on? Border to 3rd dimension? Then try to push yourself off of a border to 4th dimension while flying in space! Topdown-like true2d game is not accurate because it implies existance of floor which is located outside two dimensions. Sideview-like is correct model of 2d universe with floor, gravity and jumping being a part of it. Let the buddy see the floor!
@porky111821 күн бұрын
6:06 I'm not sure about that. We have perspective, haven't we? If the shapes were colored, for example striped like the bork of a tree, And I know how they're normally srtiped, I would know which one is closer. Also you might have lighting/shading.
@dipperconte12421 күн бұрын
This is literally what I always tought for a long time, but I would think it as a vertical “line” because I was thinking it from a side wiew perspective
@justafish_21 күн бұрын
Wolfenstein 3d is trully 2d game
@moonyl534123 күн бұрын
so it's basically what people would call a 1d game
Пікірлер
i cant imagine what it would be like to live in 1d
I think thickening the line to be the full height of the screen is more accurate to a flat lander, because just like how we don't have empty grey space for the 4th dimension, their whole vision is this line. I'd love to play this as a full game, be it a shooter, an RPG or anything, just feeling like a resident of this world. maybe even have the flat land experience of learning what the 3D world looks like to your 2D character when the sphere shows up and lifts you.
Very cool concept, man. The final result was impressive
Futurama delved into this concept, where you can’t see around something in 2D Space.
Great video! But as a nitpick: sidscrollers and the like are 2D they just don't come from the perspective of something in that 2D world. Its effectivly like being a god looking at our world. We still are in 3D just being observed by something outside of those 3D constraints.
5:22 isn't there some correction for this kind of distortion that is occurring at the edge of the FOV to make it appear more natural?
I'm not a coding expert, but couldn't you simply trace rays from the player to every corner in the game? Then, the rendering would simply boil down to making colored segments over the angle generated between every 2 conected corners of the same polygon. You'd probably have to make some adjustments if 2 shapes collided or if any shape was concave; but none of that happens in the video Awesome work tho! Really great explanation and graphics
I think what you said about depth in the fog section is questionable since your game did have perspective and depth before adding the shading Edit: for instance, you can tell something is further away from how little its size changes when you move, and you can tell what shape something is by viewing it from many angles. You should be able to tell apart the regular polygons by measuring how the width varies with distance and angle, even without a static reference point I didn’t make it clear im talking about mathematically rather than practically
3:29 Surprised face
3:30 Surprised face
This is really interesting to me for the connection to 2d SONAR arrays... the output is very similar to your games display, except you usually have the previous outputs scrolling down the screen so you can see the relative movement
For more context to what I'm getting at, you can look up "passive sonar waterfall display"
Honestly a raycast maze game on Scratch fits the definition of a 2d game really well.
wipsom - Today at 12:05 AM The psychology behind Red Dead Redemption 2 is actually quite genius, I wouldn’t be surprised if psychologists had been part of its development. The game starts by introducing you to the protagonist, Arthur Morgan, but tells you very little about him. He is nothing more than a stranger, a mere fictional character to the player. The player, therefore, has no problem with cold-blooded murder and other heinous crimes. But then, the player begins to see how they can relate to Arthur. How he has his ups and downs. How he has friends, some closer than others. Even subtle things, such as his movements, body language, or facial expressions. Even how he forgets the lyrics to songs he’s singing with other camp members. The player begins to get attached to him, get immersed in the game and its realistic graphics, see him as a friend, perhaps. This is usually timed perfectly with when Arthur realizes that he is a bad man, and that he needs to change. The player, who now also sees the extreme realism contained within the NPCs, mere background characters, who have lives, families, jobs, in this virtual world, begins to feel bad for what they do to NPCs, and also feel that it is not right to let Arthur do something wrong. They want to help a friend, as all good friends do. WARNING: SPOILERS! On the final mission, when Arthur loses his horse, the player may not know that Arthur will die in just a few minutes. They will be angry, and sad, that their horse has been killed, completely out of their control. Then they will see Arthur give his stuff to John. This is when they will realize what is coming and that they cannot stop it. They will either choose to help John or go get the money. Whatever they do, they will fight Micah, and they will lose. They have no other option. They will see the person that they have spent every moment of the game with, die. Out of their control. They will be sad that he died, and also sad that the game is over. But then they will see that they have come back. As John. And they will be happy that there is more game, but still sad that they can no longer play as Arthur, even though they were wishing they could play as John again in the beginning of the game. One failing point, however, is the gang members, especially Hosea and Lenny. The game makes it clear that their deaths hit Arthur pretty hard, but the game doesn’t have you interact with them enough to make it hit the player. Lenny was many people’s favorite gang member, but his death should have impacted the player just the same as Arthur’s death. Hosea was even worse. The player only knew Hosea as the man who raised Arthur, but never got to interact with him much. At least Arthur and Lenny had fun at the saloon in Valentine.
the non "distance aided" raymarching isn't called raymarching, it's ray stepping
You should not be using a line for 2D. It should fill in the whole width of the screen. A flatlander have no perception of height and hence it can only be described as bands filling whole viewport. Cheers
But your game is 1D not 2D
But how can the character see things if they have no width?
I mean, If we saw things from the character perspective, Objects will only have height and depth right?
U can’t c anything in the 2nd dimension as a 3rd dimensional being u can only see 2d and 2d beings see 1d so we just can’t bro we can only see 2d
so... why is this computationally exhaustive? i never thought pixels would require that much computational power, i mean, minecraft runs pretty good and i dont think it is casting rays from the camera, from what i understood, after doom, quake introduced a very interesting 3D rendering which based on vertex position, not ray tracing as wolfenstein.
Well.... It's technically a 3d game. Why? Time. **smack!** owww. I just hit myself for being annoying.
I’m surprised you went with ray marching and signed distance functions. I think rasterization (project and draw the objects into the scene) or ray tracing (perform ray-object intersection tests analytically) would be much more efficient and perhaps easier to program too.
In a 3D world, having 2 eyes is what allows us to see 3D. If we close 1 eye, we just see a 2D image. Similarly, in a 2D world, a character with only 1 eye sees 1D. But if they also have 2 eyes, they could actually see 2D. This could perhaps be somehow interpreted as line thickness.
You could actually do path traced lighting for a game like this, that would be pretty funny
I think another reason is that you don't actually really see laser beams anyway, the only way you see them is if they are shot through fog so "visible" lasers aren't even really realistic anyway 😂
Exposure of lasers in smoke makes them whiter. For a camera that can see their color it is single colored
3rd person 2D game
If (non first person) 2D games show a true 2D slice of a 3D world, you should be e.g. able to see the insides of Mario, of enemies, of question mark blocks etc. Also, you shouldn't be able to see any background or foreground stuff like clouds or bushes. Everything should look like a slice of an MRI scan. 🤔
Bro you know 2D is supposed to be x and y the only difference of that and 3d is 3d has z so now I’m asking you why did you make it wi5out the y because now it’s 1D.
So when we say we watch a “3D” movie with two different images that merge in our brain, it would be like these flat land creatures saying they are watching a “2D” movie by watching this type of content with a different image in each eye to give depth perception to this line.
Oh, what about 2d no mans sky? Flat earth realized lmao
this is awesome, loved the video :)
So what I’ve discovered from watching this 3D see things in 2D (if you look with 1 eye there is no depth perception) our eyes are like the camera, since we have two there are two cameras 2D beings see things in 1D because it’s a single line 1D beings would be blind because they see no dimension
You're absolutely right! Things that see, see in one dimension less than they exist in. However a small correction would be that a 1D being would see in 0 dimensions, which is usually interpreted as being a single point. So the vision of a 1D being would be one point (or, if we're talking a video game representation, it could be a single pixel).
I made a game for school that was very similar to this concept, it was just a simple game where you had to find the exit portal in randomly generated mazes, I didn't know about ray marching, but I implemented the simple marching with fixed size steps, I also added height that varies with distance to help with depth perception
So cool to hear you did something similar!
This is so cool, i hope I'll see complete game.
Thanks so much!
now make a 1D game
Neat!!! I saw someone else do the same thing with the 1D view, but they never really elaborated on it, nor did they include any game mechanics. Really impressed that this wasn't just a repeat of that video! I already typed a prior comment that joked that your video was clickbait(yeah I've become a bit of a squidward cause of the clickbait & (bad)commentary slop online that I've bore witness to), glad I deleted it. Will refer back to a copy of its contents to remind myself of my cynical nature & that I need to get better and touch some grass every once in a while.
Really appreciate that! Glad you ended up liking it, regardless of the slight clickbait 😉
In order to see in 3 dimensions you have to be a 4 dimensional being yourself
Amazing video! That really reminds me of the way Doom projects 2D map as 3D environment. But rather than adding a dimension, we remove one.
Thank you!
Rays in raymarching don't step by a constant amount, they step by the distance to the closest object ( minimum of all objects' distances )
I explain the difference in the video, the most basic form of raymarching is just that - marching along a ray, with a constant length. Distance-Aided Raymarching, or Sphere-Assisted Raymarching, is the style you mention and that I implement later in the video!
I luv the idea of a world just a line And I love the game you made .. ... I actually tried to imagine how it would be if I was in a 2d world before .. And came to the conclusion that it is impossible .. In order for a line to exist in the real world it should have a height (the third dimension) no matter how thin the line is When the height is 0 it basically disappears..... .. 2d is only possible in math and Measurementing ... But its still fun to imagine yourself in a really thin world.. like having my eyes in the edge of my body in order to see lmao....and can't have a Digestive system or a mouth because that will divide my body into 2 parts💀
Okay, I'm sorry but the one major flaw in Flatland's logic is that there is no 3rd dimension, thus you CANNOT SEE in Flatland. Why? Because there is no width from which you'll be able to see the world by. We see a line on a page because just like the computer screen we have a third view of which to see from. However, if you try to see that same line on the page while it's perfectly flat, it too would be indistinguishable from the rest of the paper. Mind you, it might help if we were the same "thickness" as the paper, but even then you'd perceive NOTHING.
Now do light cycle racing.
I think it would make more sense to stretch the line to the full height of your screen/window, because imo an infinite "height" of just the same repeating line makes more sense of representing something that has no "height" variation than a limited height view does. It could also be interesting to see a 2d patformer from first person, where the width is infinite.
So how we can look into 4 dimensions shape in 3 dimensions view then?
"if you play any FPS games" *Shows footage of Minecraft*
What is your character standing and walking on? Border to 3rd dimension? Then try to push yourself off of a border to 4th dimension while flying in space! Topdown-like true2d game is not accurate because it implies existance of floor which is located outside two dimensions. Sideview-like is correct model of 2d universe with floor, gravity and jumping being a part of it. Let the buddy see the floor!
6:06 I'm not sure about that. We have perspective, haven't we? If the shapes were colored, for example striped like the bork of a tree, And I know how they're normally srtiped, I would know which one is closer. Also you might have lighting/shading.
This is literally what I always tought for a long time, but I would think it as a vertical “line” because I was thinking it from a side wiew perspective
Wolfenstein 3d is trully 2d game
so it's basically what people would call a 1d game
1d can’t technically exist