Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Each episode covers the technical ground on some aspect of the low-carbon transition - but it also delves into the nature of leadership in the climate transition: whether to be optimistic or pessimistic; how to communicate in order to inspire change; personal credos; and so on. And it should be fun - most of the guests are Michael’s and Bryony's friends.
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You are all very generous calling them skeptics. A skeptic is someone who questions something - which is a healthy thing! In 2024 anyone who is still asking the question "are humans changing the climate?" and/or "is it bad?" has not really tried to answer the question (or avoids trying to answer it). The answer exists - there is more than enough quality proof available. In 2024 (or even a decade or more ago) anyone saying they are a climate skeptic is a liar - they are in denial. A "denier" not a "skeptic" - they are worlds apart.
I think these peoples need to re-read their research eg Manifestos before pod casting un-truths Deseption comes to mind. Heard enough and as the polls say Labour who your group is happy with. Enjoy being charged to drive your electric car on the streets of London this christmas. Ohh by the way thats also increasing from £12.50 to £15 Merry Xmas from Labour
So Reformuk are pro putin, you obviously are not listening to anything properly. So why should anyone care to listen to you.
They are using pencils in the polling station.Take a pen with you
Season 12 or 13 could have an episode on battery swapping. ;)
Maybe Prof Saddoway does not like the idea of cars? No EVs, but cars in general. It should be made clear that EVs only improve air quality. Nothing else. There are a multitude of problems associated with personal EV use in cities.
Great insight into UK pol. As a European I've been cheering against the UK since 2016. Maybe it's time to change teams. Seems brain-dead to me that there are not more pricing zones for electricity in the UK, especially when limitation to distribution is the local and national interconnectors. As they say, the solution to high prices are high prices. Germany is that same with only one price, country wide and has huge effect on neighbouring countries/zones to the north. Meanwhile here in Sweden with population of 15% of either the aforementioned has four (4) zones.
In Sweden, are there any unexpected and unintended consequences of locational pricing of electricity? Even though economists say total system costs would be less, there are necessarily winners and losers - are the losers in the more expensive zones grumpy about paying more?
I think the Conservative Party landslide of 2019 was more down to an almost across the board rejection of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, rather than overwhelming approval for Tory policies. Imagine how far ahead the UK might have been on the climate change prevention front if we'd had a (realistic) Labour government instead minus all of the political school playground nonsense the country has had to endure over the ensuing 12yrs.
Thank you to Dr. Simon Evans of Carbon Brief for joining us on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. How do you think UK climate policy will change under the next government? Let us know in the comments below.
Brilliant comments on these topics, and it's about time everyone catches on. Both the bull and bear cases are carefully reasoned, and presented persuasively.
10:30 Maybe not 100%, but for most purposes it might as well be.
What this ultimately comes down to is crucially dependent on how you see the essential nature of the problem. If you think it is a technological problem to be solved by innovation, followed by deployment, you probably think, as I do, that this will all look totally different in just a few decades. OTOH If you see this as just a projection of a deep spiritual and cultural malaise, then you must be deeply pessimistic, since human cultural change may take many decades or even centuries, and may even revert to earlier patterns, and basic human nature scarcely changes at all in millennia. With this as backdrop, all the other details, such as those presented so well here, may just like to much window-dressing. But as, I think, Gandhi said, everything you do is guaranteed to be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
Very interesting conversation. Sad that the guest fell into repeating EV misinformation at the end. It’s already been shown by multiple global scientific studies that EVs currently emit 30-60% less CO2 over their entire life cycle than combustion cars, even on grids mostly powered by coal. It’s also known that EVs are much much less likely to catch fire than combustion cars. And they’re already 3-5 times more efficient than combustion cars. They’re definitely not an inferior product, they’re simply better.
Absolutely brilliant episode. Clarifying why coal fired power stations are still being installed but perhaps not for long, given the economics favouring renewables.
Whenever I hear the word "thermal" I expect to hear it followed by the word "runaway".
For me it's "underwear".
Just the first 60 seconds of introduction was a litany of fabrications and nonsense.
Please elaborate. I didn't hear much in the first minute that was noteworthy, or was even meant to be.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:09 *📉 Einführung in die Batterierecycling-Industrie und Diskussion über geringe Recyclingraten* - Einleitung zur aktuellen Situation des Batterierecyclings und zu den Herausforderungen, - Steigende Batterieproduktion gegenüber niedrigen Recyclingraten von Lithium-Ionen-Batterien, - Einführung des Gastes Hans Eric Melin, eines führenden Experten im Batterierecycling. 02:03 *🔄 Klärung von Missverständnissen bezüglich der Recyclingrate von Lithium-Ionen-Batterien* - Diskussion über die fälschlicherweise niedrige angenommene Recyclingrate von nur 5%, - Hans Eric Melin stellt klar, dass tatsächlichca. 90% der Lithium-Ionen-Batterien recycelt werden, - Erörterung der Wichtigkeit korrekter Daten und Informationen im Recyclingprozess. 03:43 *🤖 Entwicklung von Technologien zur Batteriesortierung und deren Anwendung im Recyclingprozess* - Einsatz von KI und maschinellem Sehen in der Batteriesortierung, - Unterschiedliche Chemie der Batterien erfordert differenzierte Behandlungsansätze, - Rückblick auf die Karriere von Hans Eric Melin und seine Rolle in der Entwicklung von Recyclingtechnologien. 06:05 *📊 Bedeutung von Datenanalyse und Informationsbereitstellung für die Kreislaufwirtschaft* - Die Firma Circular Energy Storage konzentriert sich nicht auf physisches Recycling, sondern auf die Informations- und Datenbereitstellung, - Diskussion über die Rolle von präzisen Daten für eine effiziente Kreislaufwirtschaft, - Missverständnisse über die Rolle der Firma als Energiespeicherunternehmen aufgrund des Namens. 08:56 *📑 Kampf gegen Mythen im Batterierecycling und Einfluss fehlerhafter Informationen auf den Markt* - Erörterung der Auswirkungen von Fehlinformationen auf die Akzeptanz und Implementierung von Batterietechnologien, - Einblick in die Herausforderungen bei der Bereitstellung genauer Daten und der Bekämpfung von Missverständnissen, - Einfluss von Fehlinformationen auf politische und geschäftliche Entscheidungen bezüglich der Elektrifizierung und des Recyclings. 21:58 *🌱 Vergleich zwischen Einweg- und Lithium-Ionen-Batterien in Bezug auf Sammlung und Lebensdauer* - Unterschiede in der Nutzungsdauer und Sammlung zwischen Alkali- (Einweg) und Lithium-Ionen-Batterien, - Alkalibatterien müssen häufiger ersetzt und entsorgt werden, während Lithium-Ionen-Batterien länger in Geräten verbleiben. 22:28 *🔋 Detaillierte Diskussion über Recyclingraten und Effizienz im Batterierecycling* - Definition und Bedeutung der Recyclingrate im Vergleich zur Sammelrate, - Erläuterung des Konzepts der Recyclingeffizienz und der Unterscheidung zwischen professionellen und allgemeinen Deponien. 24:14 *🔄 Tiefergehende Betrachtung der unterschiedlichen Recycling- und Sammelmethoden, insbesondere bei Elektrofahrzeugen* - Unterschiedliche Sammelorte und -methoden für Batterien von Elektrofahrzeugen und anderen Geräten, - Hohe Recyclingraten aufgrund des Materialwerts und die Unterscheidung zwischen Recyclingeffizienz und Rückgewinnungsraten. 25:07 *💡 Detaillierte Erläuterung der Recyclingeffizienz und der Rückgewinnungsraten von spezifischen Materialien in Batterien* - Diskussion über die Herausforderungen und technischen Spezifikationen bei der Materialrückgewinnung, - Erklärung der unterschiedlichen Recyclingeffizienzen und der Faktoren, die diese beeinflussen, - Unterscheidung zwischen Rückgewinnungsraten einzelner Materialien wie Nickel und Kobalt. 45:06 *🔋 Entwicklung und Möglichkeiten der Sekundärnutzung von Batterien* - Diskussion über die unterschiedlichen Pfade der Batterieverwendung nach dem ersten Leben, einschließlich Modulen und Paketen, - Vielfalt an Sekundärnutzungsmöglichkeiten in verschiedenen Industrien und die Rolle von Unternehmern und Unternehmen in diesem Markt. 46:04 *🔌 Exploration der Einsatzmöglichkeiten von Sekundärbatterien in Energiespeichersystemen* - Einsatz von alten EV-Batterien in verschiedenen Energiespeicheranwendungen wie Hausenergiespeicher und EV-Ladestationen, - Entwicklung des Marktes und Preisrückgang bei neuen Batterien, wodurch die Attraktivität von gebrauchten Batterien beeinflusst wird. 47:59 *🚗 Analyse der Herausforderungen und Realitäten der Verwendung von Zweitbatterien in industriellen Energiespeichern* - Frühe Initiativen und Rückzug großer Automobilhersteller und Energiespeicherunternehmen aus dem Sekundärmarkt, - Schwierigkeiten bei der Bewertung und Standardisierung gebrauchter Batterien, was die breite Nutzung einschränkt. 49:14 *🛠️ Vielfalt und Anpassungsfähigkeit im Umgang mit gebrauchten Batterien* - Verschiedene Nutzungsmöglichkeiten für gebrauchte Batterien in weniger konventionellen Anwendungen wie Fahrzeugumrüstungen oder als Ersatzteile, - Die Preisdynamik des Marktes beeinflusst, wie und wo gebrauchte Batterien eingesetzt werden, wobei Qualitäts- und Sicherheitsbedenken bestehen bleiben. 51:26 *🔄 Detailbetrachtung der Wiederverwendung und des Recyclings von Batteriemodulen und -zellen* - Technische und wirtschaftliche Überlegungen zur Wiederverwendung von Batteriemodulen und -zellen, - Fortschritte in der Technologie ermöglichen es, mehr Materialien effektiv wiederzuverwenden und die Umweltauswirkungen von Batterien zu reduzieren. 01:06:47 *🏭 Diskussion über die Auslastung der Recyclingkapazitäten und zukünftige Herausforderungen* - Überkapazitäten im Recyclingbereich trotz erheblicher Investitionen in neue Anlagen, - Erklärung des Einflusses von Materialkosten und Marktpreisen auf die Rentabilität von Recyclingunternehmen, - Betonung der Notwendigkeit, effiziente Geschäftsmodelle für das Recycling zu entwickeln. 01:08:26 *💼 Betrachtung von wirtschaftlichen Aspekten und Strategien im Batterierecycling* - Diskussion über die Integration von recycelten und jungfräulichen Materialien in die Produktion, - Herausforderungen für reine Recyclingunternehmen im Vergleich zu Herstellern, die Recyclingmaterial integrieren, - Erörterung der Preisgestaltung und Materialbeschaffung als kritische Faktoren für den Erfolg im Recyclinggeschäft. 01:09:25 *🌐 Zusammenfassung und Bewertung des Marktes für Batterierecycling* - Analyse der Risiken und Potenziale im Recyclingmarkt, - Diskussion über die Notwendigkeit von Informationsdiensten und Marktanalysen für Investoren und Betreiber, - Betrachtung der zukünftigen Entwicklungen und der Rolle von technischen Innovationen im Recyclingprozess. 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"How to pay for the WAR" is not a good analogy since a war does not contribute to increase an economy's long-term productivity, but rather destroys its capital stock, besides shifting labor from more productive work to the war effort. On the other hand, bringing forward future fuel consumption by electrifying means pre-financing an expense that is expected to occur either way; and hence the different macroeconomic / inflationary impacts.
@CleaningUpPod I used to listen to your podcast on Google Podcast which has been retired in favour of Google Music. Could you make your episodes available on Google Music? This way it will allow me to listen to the adio only, as before My battery would thank you for this! 😂
Hello, we'll look into this and hopefully get it up and running on google music ASAP. Thanks for letting us know
Thanks to Anand Gopal for joining us on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. For more, sign up to our newsletter at cleaninguppod.substack.com
Methane forcing (potential) is likely very much overstated. Purely forcing wise at given concentration, a given mass of emitted CH4 will do about 78times the marginal forcing of CO2. And then, with a half life of about 6 years, about 11% of it decay per year. Because of this oxidation the carbon turns into CO2, with a rate of ~2.4tons of CO2 per ton of CH4. So far the forcing potential would be ~35times (20 years) and ~16times (100 years). BUT: Climate science takes "indirect" forcing into account. That is a) the depletion of hydroxyl serving as major CH4 sink, thereby enhancing its lifetime and b) methane would be responsible for the bulk of the tropospheric ozone anomaly. Both claims have weak footing. a) Methane only consumes a small share of (renewable) hydroxyl radicals, they are really hard to deplete. The other problem is of logical nature. If 40% of CH4 emissions are natural and 60% anthropogenic, this relation would equate to the relation of pre-industrial to added CH4 amount in the atmosphere (2005Mt to 3127Mt as in AR6. WG1 p. 705). If true, the lifetime of CH4 had not changed, negating any hydroxyl depletion. b) The CH4 ozone link is firmly assumed to be the major source of trop. ozone, but there is little evidence to back it up. Rather common wisdom points to NOx as a catalyst and of course UV. With the depletion of stratospheric ozone more UV gets to the troposphere producing more ozone there. This obvious link, well supported by empirical data (both are negatively correlated), is not even considered?!
We know the causation of climate change, profit and population growth impede tranzition to a clean capitalist economy. Capitalusm needs to tranzition toward a more just non waring global society, unlikely to happen due to human ego and greed. Earth will deal to us.
GDP is 99% correlated with flammable fossils. Materials 100% correlated. GDP growth as an indicator of health and wealth is suicidal
'Oil and Gas has been behind our enormous increases in welfare and human progress' next statement ' Moral case for fossil fuels is a ghastly tangential argument' is exactly this first statement (i.e. that developing nations need the benefits of fossil fuels (dung/wood -> oil/gas)
Did you compare to ESS? Did you even ask? Um...Michael...
Hmm, so if you haphazardly emit GHGs without regard for the environment, a regulator from Washington who doesn't know the business might intervene? I'll be careful not to do that, then. Also, I hear tales of a very small company working on destroying methane emissions from abandoned well as an interim fix at a cost that is relatively low, compared to permanent plugging.
My country does not burn coal...
Both are way too bad for any future climate. Burning any further fossil fuels means above 3C warming. Current trend is toward 3-5C world. (77% of IPCC experts 2,5-5,0C [or above]...) Methane leaks a lot. And that means huge emissions 84 times more in decadal scale than CO2. And there are so many leaks that benefits on better burning goes nearly to zero. Stop burning ANY fossil fuels. Today.
That was one of my favourite episodes, packed with information, much of it new to me. I really value your ability to talk to industry experts, deciphering acronyms and giving running summaries of the issues. Thank you.
Holmes is a privileged pathological liar.
The IPCC in not working with ecological overshoot in the mix at all. This conversation is very dangerous and keeps the status quo going. Look at the global events since this broadcast. The change is happening much faster than is admitted, to keep the machine going.
People getting poorer and the human population dropping will just happen naturally (but nature is often brutal) Cheers
The growth model ignores ecological overshoot on a finite planet. It's too late now boys. Try for the courage enough to accept it.
Thank you to Grant Swartzwelder for joining us on Cleaning Up and sharing his thoughts on how to improve methane leakage. What were your biggest takeaways? Let us know in the comments below.
Methane gas is water soluble and broken down by bacteria in tree bark in combination with nitrogen to form sulfates providing fertilizer for plants.
Maybe use the billion tax per year on plugging the uneconomic wells. Sorry but if the smaller operators are worse than coal, then they need to be closed.
Information I've been praying for. Much appreciated you set this up, thank you! Here in Namibia where we've just recently discovered a huge oil and gas deposit estimated at as large as 10 billion barrels, there is no debate on this topic whatsoever.
I liked the insight that alternative proteins may not be as good as a plant based diet but if it helps people move away from meat consumption it’s a step in the right direction.
The last five years of solar panel 'learning rate' is due to a China land grab (Go vs Chess analogy) Every Chinese Solar Manufacturer has either scaled to the max or died. All the CCP care about is manufacturing dependence in key industries (EVs, Solar, Generators, Transformers) each of these being a brittle dependency for the Wests Net Zero Mandates.
There's one earth. 8 billion precious humans today and every year another 80 million, 2X population of Canada, join us. At first we are humans! The cultural geopolitical nonsense doesn't work in 2024. Time for a new compact that acknowledges reality of our times. We've never been more connected and aware. It's time
I think one of the only meaningful value primary energy measures is X heavy industry needs Y amount of thermal energy for whatever process it needs. Other than that, it's like heat engines just loses 40% to 65% of thermal energy converting that to electricity.
Yet PPM greenhouse gases pollution are at new highs and growth rates. This is all that matters...
From the benefits of what bing this in June 2024, it’s pretty obvious that now we are in what in Africa is called the night of the long knives.
Never ever at the moment, and as as long as we are not fully decarbonized it makes no sense!
More money-making bullshit for the rich, for example squeaky
We're delighted to have Bruce on the show this week to hear his thoughts on why alternative proteins are necessary, and all the obstacles that exist before they can be a regular part of people's diets. Let us know your takeaways from the podcast, and what you'd like to hear more about on this topic.
Making plant based "meat" only works if you are not filling the "meat" with ultra-processed ingredients.
You don't need to use herbicides for growing chickens, they'll eat weeds themseves to supplement their diet. Growing veg uses most artificial herbicides and pesticides most made out of fossil fuels. These people always say that animals are inefficient at producing meat but just think that while they're growing they're also fertilising the ground without using fossil fuels. They also point to the methane produced but thic is a cycle so balances itself out just like burning biomass except that for biomass a lot of fossil fuel it used to transport it. Most European meat animals are grazed on land unsiutable forarrable us because it't too steep, wet, rocky or for some other reason eating grass and herbs inedible by humans. .I take it that this was recorded befor the Lancet report came out (today) "Vegan Fake Meats & Heart Disease, Early Death (study) " Humans have developed for 3 or 4 million years eating meat or fish so it can't be that unhealthy. Amazing what you can prove by being selective with your facts. The problem is not the food but the food processing industry. Fake meat is a scam.
"Fake meat is scam". Look, not saying you are wrong at this. Celluar agriculture provides real meat from real cells. This interview talks cellular agriculture for the most part.
If we can't do this (technology regime change) in Australia, we're definitely screwed up. A neat acknowledgement of a country ruled in Control Fraud by mafia-like criminal screw-up.
The battery of my 8.3 year old AUDI A3 etron died 3 months after the end of the warranty... AUDI refused to replace it, but wanted to charge 12000 EUR for a 8.8kwh battery. Luckily my car importer was partly paying for the replacement. For your next podcast it would be great to cover how much such a battery actually costs from a material perspective? What happens to all the Teslas that are only getting 8-9 years old now? What happens to a secondary car market when the battery warranty is the new key purchase metric?