Tbh rating non keyworded effects that are repeated (e.g. silence/freeze a target, or what elusive used to be) might be an interesting sequel.
@pymbetteКүн бұрын
yeah im actually considering talking about mechanics that should have keywords (like Highlander cards, "attacks adjacent minions", etc), and the sillier bolded keywords
@ansg1050Күн бұрын
@@pymbettei would love to see that, please do!
@sonario5910Күн бұрын
You're really cute :) I wish you were EU so we could play but I really like your channel and I hope it grows! Big fan.
@tcoren1Күн бұрын
In case it's not in the bottom 10, where did discover place?
@pymbetteКүн бұрын
it was 22nd. (I will have the full list at the end of the bottom 10 video)
@satibelКүн бұрын
I'd argue dredge is discover with a mustache.
@ansg1050Күн бұрын
@@satibelwell there's not much to argue about, you're right. Cards like Tracking are pretty much dredge without the "downside" (-in most cases anyways). The thing is, discover is mostly used as a card-generating mechanic.
@pymbetteКүн бұрын
7:10 to skip Bird Noises 8:44 to skip to actual Top 10
@TheAandJStudio9 күн бұрын
Lmfao Dug forgetting to put L was hysterical
@RedOphiuchus9 күн бұрын
Magic actually has a wincon similar to Mecha'thun called Barren Glory where, if the only cards you have out is Barren Glory and you have no cards in hand at the start of your turn, you win the game. There isn't any notable lore around the card, but the interesting detail about it is that it began as the Un-card "The Cheese Stands Alone" which had the same effect but was printed in a joke set and not tournament legal.
@crunchybanana648914 күн бұрын
Great video but DANZON NO. 2!!!!!! Wooooooo
@crunchybanana648914 күн бұрын
Great video but DANZON NO. 2!!!!!! Wooooooo
@ansg105014 күн бұрын
refreshing content, well put together and the music was very on point. keep up the good work man, you earned yourself a sub
@Frogleeoh15 күн бұрын
I stumbled upon the second sun win con by mistake initially. I bought the "Second Sun Control" challenger deck on a whim during my earlier MTG days because I thought the cover card looked cool, made even cooler with it being a god. It wasn't long before I realized exactly what I had really gotten my hands on however. I did end up cautiously testing it out against my brothers and step dad a few times just to see how viable it was while I had it, though I wouldn't have ever built such a deck on my own otherwise. Turns out, it was scarily effective right out of the box, losing only a single game, and even then, only by a single turn. I ultimately opted not to even consider playing it again for a very long time, and to this day haven't taken it out aside from 1 other time after having given in to upgrading the deck significantly, and beating my step dad with it in a double blue-white control battle of wits. I still wish to upgrade it even further, as I have now committed to building the deck as efficiently as possible under legacy legality (as my playgroup basically defaults to "kitchen table legacy"). That being said, even if it becomes my most powerful deck (assuming it isn't already), it shall forever remain locked away in my forbidden vault, only to be released on extremely rare occasion to prove it still has its grit, before being swiftly locked away again as not to taint the mood for too long. Again, not a card i ever would have thought to build around on my own accord, knowing how Inherently unfun it is to play against, but in this case, the deck chose me, and so its legacy shall remain.
@skamensch430619 күн бұрын
Best alternativ win con is still battle of wits.
@j.m.360025 күн бұрын
Nice interesting video I enjoyed it very much
@fredericchristie347228 күн бұрын
You're giving me major Rhystic Studies and Ceave Gaming vibes, in the best way. I was kind of expecting a more design-oriented approach as to how alternate win conditions create fun play, but I love your focus on the fluff, because it is actually incredibly important.
@pymbette27 күн бұрын
Means a lot, both channels have been big favorites of mine for years
@SmashCentralOfficialАй бұрын
Very cool video! I believe Mecha'Thun was inspired by MTGs Barren Glory.
@antusReliquariusАй бұрын
This vid was beautiful, instant sub
@wolftuxedo4301Ай бұрын
Great video, although the bgm is a bit loud at times. I've always been fascinated by alternate win conditions, it always feels special getting it pieced together out of the norm. Many times I've been gravitated towards trying to pull at least one off, even if its usually harder than the usual ways of winning.
@TheFunfighterАй бұрын
Good video, but dial down the music volume a little
@essurioАй бұрын
To be fair to Xyrella's Purified Shard, we learned from the pve story that the shard is a piece of a Naaru, and those guys are pretty fucking strong.
@ignacioperez547924 күн бұрын
Yeah. Those guys are basically ligth demigods
@marthsinclair3796Ай бұрын
Just found the channel today and I appreciate the content. I agree with the sentiment that loads shouldn't count for WR, it gatekeeps the hobby and creates artificial barriers that can only ever hold back the progression of a run.
@nathanebbingАй бұрын
Great video! I can tell you put a lot of effort into your videos, and I loved your choice of music. I subscribed.
@jjjameson3379Ай бұрын
@22:48 Wait, how do you enter this room when the bed is right next to the door!? 🤣🤣🤣
@Big_DaiАй бұрын
Some people that call themselves "creators" should learn to summarize their few core ideas.. instead of creating a 30 min video of nothing. The few seconds @11:56 discussing the Oracle dissonance were more than enough to get that specific point across! Sometimes, less is more..
@Hema8551Ай бұрын
subbed , amazing video, keep it up man you gonna make it big one day
@DonTinkerАй бұрын
Amazing analysis! I always loved alternate win conditions in every game, and having played both Hearthstone and Yugioh at the time the alternate will conditions you exemplified were meta made me smile. I'm hoping to see your future videos!
@murlocaggrob2192Ай бұрын
I strongly disagree with you about the Purified Shard. I played a lot of Questline Priest when it was in Standard, and it's not really about curving out. It's about stalling until you draw the right cards, with the added fun that the right cards are also stalling tools. Maybe it's personal taste, but I love Control Priest. The Questline gave Priest a wincon for their stalling power, something the deck desperately needed against other Control decks. The tradeoff is that the deck became more scuffed against aggro since you had to build a higher curve than normal. As for flavour, the shard is a piece of Mi'da, a shattered Naaru (basically the Warcraft version of an angel). The shards of Mi'da were the driving plot behind the Year of the Gryphon story arc, and the Quest shows Xyrella taking a corrupted Void shard and purifying into a shard of pure Light.
@jonathanwhyte2842Ай бұрын
I really wanted you to talk about Coalition Victory from MTG as I feel it is incredibly thematic, but potentially too easy or hard to pull off depending on format.
@LogogoFromKeronАй бұрын
Amazing video! Alternate win condition cards have always peaked my interest whenever I see them. I think I've only ever got a Mech'thun win once or twice. Also glad to know that MTG has some alt win cards too. Gonna try to learn that game once the Miku cards release. I'll for sure press that subscribe button!
@vharmi.Ай бұрын
In my opinion, alternate win conditions are only fun when there's sufficient counterplay other than rushing your opponent down before they can get it off. Otherwise, you might as well be playing rock, paper, scissors if you automatically beat everything that isn't aggro. I'll use an example from the early days of Shadowverse (yes, once upon a time people actually played that game). There were two big "I win the game" cards seeing play. One was an amulet (goes on board, can't be attacked) for 8 mana that destroys itself at the end of the turn, and summons another amulet, that does the same thing etc. Destroy the 5th amulet and you win. The other was a 20 mana card that says "Take an extra turn. Costs (1) less for each spell you've played". I believe the first card had a higher winrate, but my god were people furious with the second one. Why? Counterplay. Everyone has the ability to play a card that removes amulets from the game, but if your opponent gets an extra turn, you have no agency at all. That's it, you lose. The Bandle Tree in Legends of Runeterra and its nerf is another perfect example. It used to be the case that you won the game if you had played cards from every region and then played the tree. It was not very fun and it got changed to the tree having been in play at the same time as cards from every region in order to win. Pretty much killed the deck, but when I busted out a Tree deck half a year later, my opponents' responses weren't angry or salty. They were really hyped and asked for the decklist, because there's no way it should work after the nerf, but it kinda did! There were plenty of options to remove the tree for all the regions, but no one bothered to put the tech in since it wasn't very relevant for the meta. Just having an option available to defuse alternate win conditions goes a really long way to minimize player frustration.
@guillermoandresramirezvera2899Ай бұрын
There's actually a lot of Yu-gi-oh card lore, there actually are 4 primary story lines, Duel Terminal, World Legacy, The Albaz story and the current Diabelstar story
@DetectiveBarricadeАй бұрын
You forgot the Visas Starfrost story
@BrandonPoirierBlairАй бұрын
And then there's modern hearthstone, where you have 12 win conditions + all the random RNG that creates win conditions out of thin air.
@CptManboobsАй бұрын
Use Door to Nothingness and send target player to the shadow realm.
@elzian4975Ай бұрын
Man, as a Yugioh player (but mostly Edison format) I disagree. I really don't care about the "lore" of an alternate win condition, the problem with most alternate win condition is that they're gameplay sucks. They don't play out like Yugi desperately pulling off Exodia, because most of the time they are not an alternate win condition for the decks that play them, they are the main win condition. It's not that "despite things looking hopeless on the board, you pull out this sneaky clever way to still win", because those decks never cared about the state of the board, so there is nothing hopeless about it. It feels like awful to play against those alternate win conditions in Yugioh, not because they win often, but because as the player playing the 'normal' deck, you often have very little agency in the outcome of the game, that is relegated to some degree to the decisions of the alt win con player, but mostly the luck of the draw. But even worse is that the flow of the game is solely dictated by the alt win con players deck: Every deck feels very similar playing into an alt win con deck. It doesn't really matter what your deck does, what the cards you have deliberately chosen do, only if they by some miracle can interact with the alternate win con players deck.
@tcoren1Ай бұрын
10:20 I seem to recall something like that where an event allowed resubmitting due to a mechanics change, but with the change being "if you use a faceless manipulator to copy a 5/5, you don't proc druid quest". Is this a different occurrence or just two things that saw change together?
@pymbetteАй бұрын
Yes HCT Seoul allowed a resubmit, but only for Quest Druid players. the change took place in summer of 2018. I'm planning to make a video that discusses that whole disaster in the future
@tcoren1Ай бұрын
In some parts of the video (e.g. 23:27) the music is very loud and it is hard to hear what you say
@TheKyleBrahАй бұрын
I was primed for the History of Yugioh Alt-Win-Con Speedrun World Records. I feel manipulated 🥲
@bryce7344Ай бұрын
Wish you would use better music that isn't the same music heard in every single other video like this. Pick less generic things please. Also your room is ugly and I feel like there wasn't any point to showing your face post of the time.
@theolin5486Ай бұрын
Will have to say tho that ice block wasnt even nwar one of the best cards ever
@chloranusvennhrer1855Ай бұрын
Not many do this interesting analysis of win conditions. I hope more videos like this. P.S.: Vennominaga not commented, F.
@pymbetteАй бұрын
funny enough i had an ending segment where i talked about vennominaga (since its another card ive had since i was younger), but ended up cutting it cause it didnt fit like i wanted
Пікірлер
great vid man, keep up the grind!
Tbh rating non keyworded effects that are repeated (e.g. silence/freeze a target, or what elusive used to be) might be an interesting sequel.
yeah im actually considering talking about mechanics that should have keywords (like Highlander cards, "attacks adjacent minions", etc), and the sillier bolded keywords
@@pymbettei would love to see that, please do!
You're really cute :) I wish you were EU so we could play but I really like your channel and I hope it grows! Big fan.
In case it's not in the bottom 10, where did discover place?
it was 22nd. (I will have the full list at the end of the bottom 10 video)
I'd argue dredge is discover with a mustache.
@@satibelwell there's not much to argue about, you're right. Cards like Tracking are pretty much dredge without the "downside" (-in most cases anyways). The thing is, discover is mostly used as a card-generating mechanic.
7:10 to skip Bird Noises 8:44 to skip to actual Top 10
Lmfao Dug forgetting to put L was hysterical
Magic actually has a wincon similar to Mecha'thun called Barren Glory where, if the only cards you have out is Barren Glory and you have no cards in hand at the start of your turn, you win the game. There isn't any notable lore around the card, but the interesting detail about it is that it began as the Un-card "The Cheese Stands Alone" which had the same effect but was printed in a joke set and not tournament legal.
Great video but DANZON NO. 2!!!!!! Wooooooo
Great video but DANZON NO. 2!!!!!! Wooooooo
refreshing content, well put together and the music was very on point. keep up the good work man, you earned yourself a sub
I stumbled upon the second sun win con by mistake initially. I bought the "Second Sun Control" challenger deck on a whim during my earlier MTG days because I thought the cover card looked cool, made even cooler with it being a god. It wasn't long before I realized exactly what I had really gotten my hands on however. I did end up cautiously testing it out against my brothers and step dad a few times just to see how viable it was while I had it, though I wouldn't have ever built such a deck on my own otherwise. Turns out, it was scarily effective right out of the box, losing only a single game, and even then, only by a single turn. I ultimately opted not to even consider playing it again for a very long time, and to this day haven't taken it out aside from 1 other time after having given in to upgrading the deck significantly, and beating my step dad with it in a double blue-white control battle of wits. I still wish to upgrade it even further, as I have now committed to building the deck as efficiently as possible under legacy legality (as my playgroup basically defaults to "kitchen table legacy"). That being said, even if it becomes my most powerful deck (assuming it isn't already), it shall forever remain locked away in my forbidden vault, only to be released on extremely rare occasion to prove it still has its grit, before being swiftly locked away again as not to taint the mood for too long. Again, not a card i ever would have thought to build around on my own accord, knowing how Inherently unfun it is to play against, but in this case, the deck chose me, and so its legacy shall remain.
Best alternativ win con is still battle of wits.
Nice interesting video I enjoyed it very much
You're giving me major Rhystic Studies and Ceave Gaming vibes, in the best way. I was kind of expecting a more design-oriented approach as to how alternate win conditions create fun play, but I love your focus on the fluff, because it is actually incredibly important.
Means a lot, both channels have been big favorites of mine for years
Very cool video! I believe Mecha'Thun was inspired by MTGs Barren Glory.
This vid was beautiful, instant sub
Great video, although the bgm is a bit loud at times. I've always been fascinated by alternate win conditions, it always feels special getting it pieced together out of the norm. Many times I've been gravitated towards trying to pull at least one off, even if its usually harder than the usual ways of winning.
Good video, but dial down the music volume a little
To be fair to Xyrella's Purified Shard, we learned from the pve story that the shard is a piece of a Naaru, and those guys are pretty fucking strong.
Yeah. Those guys are basically ligth demigods
Just found the channel today and I appreciate the content. I agree with the sentiment that loads shouldn't count for WR, it gatekeeps the hobby and creates artificial barriers that can only ever hold back the progression of a run.
Great video! I can tell you put a lot of effort into your videos, and I loved your choice of music. I subscribed.
@22:48 Wait, how do you enter this room when the bed is right next to the door!? 🤣🤣🤣
Some people that call themselves "creators" should learn to summarize their few core ideas.. instead of creating a 30 min video of nothing. The few seconds @11:56 discussing the Oracle dissonance were more than enough to get that specific point across! Sometimes, less is more..
subbed , amazing video, keep it up man you gonna make it big one day
Amazing analysis! I always loved alternate win conditions in every game, and having played both Hearthstone and Yugioh at the time the alternate will conditions you exemplified were meta made me smile. I'm hoping to see your future videos!
I strongly disagree with you about the Purified Shard. I played a lot of Questline Priest when it was in Standard, and it's not really about curving out. It's about stalling until you draw the right cards, with the added fun that the right cards are also stalling tools. Maybe it's personal taste, but I love Control Priest. The Questline gave Priest a wincon for their stalling power, something the deck desperately needed against other Control decks. The tradeoff is that the deck became more scuffed against aggro since you had to build a higher curve than normal. As for flavour, the shard is a piece of Mi'da, a shattered Naaru (basically the Warcraft version of an angel). The shards of Mi'da were the driving plot behind the Year of the Gryphon story arc, and the Quest shows Xyrella taking a corrupted Void shard and purifying into a shard of pure Light.
I really wanted you to talk about Coalition Victory from MTG as I feel it is incredibly thematic, but potentially too easy or hard to pull off depending on format.
Amazing video! Alternate win condition cards have always peaked my interest whenever I see them. I think I've only ever got a Mech'thun win once or twice. Also glad to know that MTG has some alt win cards too. Gonna try to learn that game once the Miku cards release. I'll for sure press that subscribe button!
In my opinion, alternate win conditions are only fun when there's sufficient counterplay other than rushing your opponent down before they can get it off. Otherwise, you might as well be playing rock, paper, scissors if you automatically beat everything that isn't aggro. I'll use an example from the early days of Shadowverse (yes, once upon a time people actually played that game). There were two big "I win the game" cards seeing play. One was an amulet (goes on board, can't be attacked) for 8 mana that destroys itself at the end of the turn, and summons another amulet, that does the same thing etc. Destroy the 5th amulet and you win. The other was a 20 mana card that says "Take an extra turn. Costs (1) less for each spell you've played". I believe the first card had a higher winrate, but my god were people furious with the second one. Why? Counterplay. Everyone has the ability to play a card that removes amulets from the game, but if your opponent gets an extra turn, you have no agency at all. That's it, you lose. The Bandle Tree in Legends of Runeterra and its nerf is another perfect example. It used to be the case that you won the game if you had played cards from every region and then played the tree. It was not very fun and it got changed to the tree having been in play at the same time as cards from every region in order to win. Pretty much killed the deck, but when I busted out a Tree deck half a year later, my opponents' responses weren't angry or salty. They were really hyped and asked for the decklist, because there's no way it should work after the nerf, but it kinda did! There were plenty of options to remove the tree for all the regions, but no one bothered to put the tech in since it wasn't very relevant for the meta. Just having an option available to defuse alternate win conditions goes a really long way to minimize player frustration.
There's actually a lot of Yu-gi-oh card lore, there actually are 4 primary story lines, Duel Terminal, World Legacy, The Albaz story and the current Diabelstar story
You forgot the Visas Starfrost story
And then there's modern hearthstone, where you have 12 win conditions + all the random RNG that creates win conditions out of thin air.
Use Door to Nothingness and send target player to the shadow realm.
Man, as a Yugioh player (but mostly Edison format) I disagree. I really don't care about the "lore" of an alternate win condition, the problem with most alternate win condition is that they're gameplay sucks. They don't play out like Yugi desperately pulling off Exodia, because most of the time they are not an alternate win condition for the decks that play them, they are the main win condition. It's not that "despite things looking hopeless on the board, you pull out this sneaky clever way to still win", because those decks never cared about the state of the board, so there is nothing hopeless about it. It feels like awful to play against those alternate win conditions in Yugioh, not because they win often, but because as the player playing the 'normal' deck, you often have very little agency in the outcome of the game, that is relegated to some degree to the decisions of the alt win con player, but mostly the luck of the draw. But even worse is that the flow of the game is solely dictated by the alt win con players deck: Every deck feels very similar playing into an alt win con deck. It doesn't really matter what your deck does, what the cards you have deliberately chosen do, only if they by some miracle can interact with the alternate win con players deck.
10:20 I seem to recall something like that where an event allowed resubmitting due to a mechanics change, but with the change being "if you use a faceless manipulator to copy a 5/5, you don't proc druid quest". Is this a different occurrence or just two things that saw change together?
Yes HCT Seoul allowed a resubmit, but only for Quest Druid players. the change took place in summer of 2018. I'm planning to make a video that discusses that whole disaster in the future
In some parts of the video (e.g. 23:27) the music is very loud and it is hard to hear what you say
I was primed for the History of Yugioh Alt-Win-Con Speedrun World Records. I feel manipulated 🥲
Wish you would use better music that isn't the same music heard in every single other video like this. Pick less generic things please. Also your room is ugly and I feel like there wasn't any point to showing your face post of the time.
Will have to say tho that ice block wasnt even nwar one of the best cards ever
Not many do this interesting analysis of win conditions. I hope more videos like this. P.S.: Vennominaga not commented, F.
funny enough i had an ending segment where i talked about vennominaga (since its another card ive had since i was younger), but ended up cutting it cause it didnt fit like i wanted