I love this movie, it’s a guilty pleasure of mine, but… My biggest problem with the film is the fact that Superman’s main motivation for fighting Batman is blackmail. The Martha moment is ok, but I think it could have been executed better. The themes and ideas behind it are fantastic though.
@lexio99133 жыл бұрын
make more videos like this, you have great takes
@chistianfritz91463 жыл бұрын
People always say “show don’t tell” unless it’s BVS 🤨 ever notice that?
@alkebulanawah42423 жыл бұрын
When will you return?
@alkebulanawah42423 жыл бұрын
Commenting for the algorithm
@jimrustler3 жыл бұрын
finally the justice league movie tat continues this amazing work will came soon
@bemasaberwyn553 жыл бұрын
Amazing insights. Especially considering my feelings about avengers 2.5
@99sasanka4 жыл бұрын
good insight
@josepholsen74504 жыл бұрын
RIP justice league
@josepholsen74504 жыл бұрын
The superman diving into water scene! This is why 3 years later I'm still watching BvS analyses. I mean, come on. These movies ARE cinema. WB never should have taken a knee to the MCU. They've always made better films.
@sharendavis92163 жыл бұрын
I agree!
@usernameunknown99404 жыл бұрын
I keep hearing that GotG is the best marvel movie, but it's the one I dislike the most (GotG2 is worse actually). Something I hear is that people liked the fact that the Guardians are anti-heroes more than heroes but that doesn't make the movie good lol. I've never realized how much exposition dump there was in that movie, I fear for Suicide Squad 2 tbh. Also: the racoon is fcking annoying, + in what universe would movie!Gamora ever fall for movie!Peter Quill?
@jtcob84864 жыл бұрын
I disagree about Bryan Cranston as lex luthor, sure it wouldn't as different from the character as eisenburg was, but he could envoke a menace and fear that hasn't been shown before (as seen in breaking bad). He could have been the first lex put to screen that would have been truly terrifying.
@lexio99134 жыл бұрын
Thank you dude I thought I was crazy for really disliking this film. Show don’t tell is right. I mainly have a problem with pretty much all mcu films how they cut all serious moments with a joke because they are scared that people will get bored. I much prefer MoS and BvS and am hopeful for the snydercut. Those films are much better and I like that you have to engage your brain whilst this is just boring childish schlock.
@alexanderjonl21885 жыл бұрын
I think this video, with the Twin Perfect's videos and maybe few of another ones, have the most consistency arguments to show how wrong the critics judge this movie. I agree with you. You deserve more views and subscriptions. I see this in 2019. I love MoS and BvS (especially de Ultimate Edition it's a piece of art), and it feels good to found that some people cares about the value of this film. Congratulations for make this video. Greetings.
@josepholsen74504 жыл бұрын
Alexander Jonl i liked BvS. But i feel bad that i didnt stand up for it sooner. Only in the last few months have a truly fallen in love with this film. I think it is easily the greatest superhero film of all time.
@carrottoponcrak5 жыл бұрын
This is fantastic btw
@YourVideoEssaysSuck6 жыл бұрын
I’m shocked you don’t have more subs. This kinda of analysis is something critics could only dream of doing
@justis_xoxo6 жыл бұрын
Great video !
@dilpreetkang82446 жыл бұрын
I agreed with everything you said. Especially about Jessie Eisenberg potrayl of lex Luther. There’s one scene when the senator visits. In the beginning he is charming and delightful to the senator until she says “I’m blocking important license on your shipment”(paraphrasing). His facial expressions, the music and everything that followed was cinematic masterpiece. The Martha scene, this is how I felt when I first saw it. A man who very well knows he’s about to die pleads for safety of his mother. Instead begging to spare his life. That shit was emotional. I find it frustrating when people ignore it like it was just lazy writing. From Batman point of view. He sees himself as joe chill. He’s doing the very thing that caused his life to go down the shitter and become Batman. How the fuck is that lazy writing ?! Anyways there are lot of things I love about this movie and I just can’t get enough it. #deuces.
@carrottoponcrak5 жыл бұрын
I love that conversation between Lex and Finch because you can tell how manipulative Lex really is. He starts with trying to appeal to her Kentucky side, with the whisky then to her female/motherly side when he talks about his dad and being a helpless orphan, and then he tries to scare her before he ultimately decides, I'm just gonna kill you lol.
@fortheloveofcinema6 жыл бұрын
Keep making more of these. I want to see more lol. I think you have an open minded thought process and you definitely pay attention more than the average person.
@djn18226 жыл бұрын
Right on ... so agreed!
@1stnaruto6 жыл бұрын
Good video
@avocatobobble6 жыл бұрын
Whilst there are videos bleeding out now, about Civil War being either the worst MCU movie or seriously overrated. Where as you have multiple channels making videos talking about how brilliant this film is.
@samuraijacques9526 жыл бұрын
Great insight
@idawg73326 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately bvs requires thought to understand while civil war spoonfeeds everything. So of course civil war is considered one of the best of the genre while bvs is considered one of the worst. Fuck me
@annnee68186 жыл бұрын
Ian Levinson Unfortunately BvS concentrated on symbolism and recreating comic book panels instead of a coherent narrative 😒
@trevorthornley88359 ай бұрын
@@annnee6818 The ultimate cut has a coherent narrative
@TorridPrime2176 жыл бұрын
Its also worth noting that the email scene establishes that there are other metahumans besides Superman; this is actually significant AND important because when you think about, ALL of them are at Batman's mercy. If a normal human with just extensive training and resources can take on the likes of SUPERMAN -who overpowers them ALL, just imagine what he could do to the others? Batman was never hindered by his physical or mental limits, but by his lack of faith in both himself and the world around him. Despite him being a normal human, what his fight with Superman shows is that if he's going down, he's going to drag EVERYONE down with him. But because of the conflict with Superman, Batman will not seek these others out as potential threats, but as allies and brothers in arms. Including them in the plot the way they did actually adds more weight and gravitas to Batman's conflict and journey and raises the stakes, which in turn furthers the importance of Superman in the movie. So while this scene might seem like a forced tie-in to future movies, in it's own context only, it actually adds to the movie and makes it even better.
@jsaiz1875056 жыл бұрын
TorridPrime217 just might use this argument. Very well thought out.
@planetg21257 жыл бұрын
Good stuff. The email scene plays 2 roles: first it pushes Diana over the cusp to join in the fight with DD. She's exposed, cameras are destroyed, other heroes are coming in to the light. More importantly it shows Bruce reaching put to a metahuman for help showing that he deep down knows what he's doing is wrong but can't find his own way out, and the fact that it's a woman gives you a link to why Superman's mother being in peril breaks his falling.
@josepholsen74504 жыл бұрын
Planet G on top of that, this wasnt a pandering post credit scene to setup the next film. It reflects Bruce's growth. At the end of the film he says he will go find the rest and that men are still good. The "men" he refers to is himself. after superman's sacrifice, bruce has returned to the light. Rather than see other metahumans as threats, he sees them as allies. Too bad modern audiences just want "die hard" style superhero films rather than kubrick style superhero films.
@jeandutra83033 жыл бұрын
@@josepholsen7450 Also, it conveys to us subtly who Lex Luthor truly is: he's a cold, patient mastermind and an absolute monster. Superman may have been his primary target, but he set his sights for all the metahumans, so he could wipe them all out and become Earth's "savior".
@richardsreviews88207 жыл бұрын
Great video
@alexschepers60917 жыл бұрын
The email scene was actually a very clever way of depicting how Lex uncovered Bats/Supes identity's. Facial recognition used on WW is enough to deduce who Clark Kent is. Also, it informs Lex's motivation: that humanity not "rely" on "monsters"(as in multiple monsters). If they do, humanities evolution is stunted, & they won't "rely" on Lex. Everything else after(& before) this line reason as to why he desires Clarks death(& to villianize him so he doesn't become a mauder, thus his legacy in ruins)
@jackthompson34537 жыл бұрын
Why would Lex Luthor , billionaire super evil genius, need to get an "import license" for a rock? Really??? He's Lex Luthor! Oh wait, since he didn't need one anyway to get it into the country - not one customs or government official at the lonely deserted docks - what was point of all that? Answer? There was no point. Like this movie. Just ONE example of stupid and beyond terrible this movie was.
@RedLion8007 жыл бұрын
Jack Thompson Actually, there was a point. Sure, he could of and was preparing to take the kryponite anyway, but the point of the important license is necessary to Lex because he wants to stretch his political power. Thus, how you saw one Senator agree to his wishlist, while the other Senator doesn't give him what he wants. Lex was just prepared to get what he wanted, whether by legal or illegal means.
@kevinlinsley95947 жыл бұрын
Jack Thompson really that's your gripe with Lex? You can't think any deeper to answer your own question? That's sad. You should stay far far away from philosophical-drama movies because BVS is definitely one of the best within that genre.
@MrEarly236 жыл бұрын
Kevin Linsley Thank you.
@flavorflov65197 жыл бұрын
Hey Cameron! Glad to find your channel! I see what you're saying in here, and I do appreciate the pros you pointed out. However, there's some points that I find kinda iffy. You do a lot to address the technical filmmaking aspect, but the problems mostly lie in the character writings and the pacing (some people like to call this editing). For one, you criticize the Marvel movies for being inconsequential, without having any real stakes. I agree. They're popular and the studio wants to make more Marvel movies. I think they're C+ projects too. But is Batman v Superman any different? We as audience members know that DC wants to make more movies, therefore we know that neither Batman, Superman, nor the planet Earth is gonna die (for good). We know Superman is coming back because everyone knows about the Death of Superman story (also he's another obvious movie Christ figure). We as audience members know that Batman and Superman are gonna end up getting along and team up since we all saw the trailer. So if you're saying Marvel movies (that put up the world, friendship, and civilian casualties as "stakes") have no stakes, then I guess the same would go for BvS:DoJ. You spent a lot of time justifying each major characters in the film that received criticisms except for Wonder Woman. Can you explain what her motivations, desires, purpose for being in the film besides that the studio wanted her in it? Also, why should we care for Superman? The problem with the Martha scene isn't that it wasn't foreshadowed enough, it was just hacky writing. Why would Superman refer to his own mother by her first name? She's not his real mom, but how would he have known that saying "Martha" would bring Batman to his senses? Why would it stop Batman from killing him? Justify it all you want, it could have been done better. Cinematically, Zach knows what he is doing. He's just super obvious with his themes and message, even to the point of telling not showing sometimes especially with the TV spots sequences. It's like watching those The Purge movies. For that reason is why it may rub people off as "trying too hard (to be deep)."
@maskofshy7 жыл бұрын
Why would Superman refer to his own mother by her first name? Superman still has a double identity ... so he is giving Batman the name of the person he wants him to save. (because if he aprouches to any place... because Superman doesn't know where she could be.... Lex will know it somehow and will give order to kill Martha) Saying just MOther.. in the worst case ... would make Batman think: Oh crap... ANOTHER kriptonian!!!!. When Batman says: I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason . He is talkinb about his Kriptonian Parents ... because Batman doens't see anything human in Superman. (aparto from how he looks) (just a false god) Saying Martha Stopped The Batman.. because .. 1st. .is a Human Name. He used to be a detective.. and that sense kicks in. WHy that alien would say .. martha. ... 2nd .... The complete phrase ends being... You letting him, kill martha. Find Him.. Save Martha.... Superman pray for someone else's life and gives Batman a reason to keep digging out. Superman plays desesperated last card. Batman is confused but ANGRY and he wants answers. This whole time he just saw Sups as an Alien (nor a god or even a man) (maybe something worst). BECAUSE his principal motivation is how This Superman makes him feel powerless. Batman was useless and he cannot accept it. .. but this alien now is praying for salvation for the life of other. Lois arrives.. and Batman sees everything. HE WAS WRONG. HE is the monster in the room. Batman is the one with power, the desesperated man who was going to kill an innocent person. (pls excuse my english) /( and offcourse BvS had some mistakes... is not a perfect movie by any mean ) (maybe it's only problem is to not being that fun of a ride .. like other movies)
@flavorflov65197 жыл бұрын
Oh for sure, I see what you're saying. I really hope the writers had all that in mind when they wrote this. However, it's still Superman getting out of a sticky situation because of a coincidence which is often seen as lazy writing. Like I said, it could have been done better since it kinda works with Batman's character, but to the audience members it came out of nowhere.
@kevinlinsley95947 жыл бұрын
Sam Nguyen With your point to the Martha scene. Why would Superman refer to his mom by first name? Well you have to acknowledge that at the beginning of the fight Superman refers to Batman as Bruce. So he knows he's Bruce Wayne. Clark is a reporter so a quick Wikipedia search would show you Bruce Wayne is the orphan of Martha and Thomas Wayne who was tragically murdered. Superman tries to explain to Bruce that Lex is setting this up but within his first 3 attempts Bruce shuts superman down. Then it's too late. Next thing superman knows is he's being swung around by batman about to meet his death. But as he's being swung around Bruce talks about each others parents (Bruce referring to SupermaN's supposed Alien parents) and talks about "dying in the gutter for no reason" THIS reminds Superman that Bruce is referring to Martha and Thomas and ironically Martha is who Clark is fighting for so he (who has tried and failed time and time again to talk to Bruce) realizes how to hit (hopefully) Bruce at his core by saying "you're letting him kill Martha" Of coarse this doesn't calm Bruce down. He becomes more enraged, thinking its a trick. Then as Lois clarifies it's Superman mother's name, Bruce then realizes he has become a monster. Now take a moment to notice the reference to St. Michael Archangel. Google Image Search that name. You'll notice the stance Batman has over Superman is literally the same as St.Michael Archangel. Batman (St.Michael) has his foot on the neck of Superman (demon) with a sword or spear pointed at his face or chest. In the story, stmichael is defending mankind from the demon. The demon more or less begs St.Michael for his life. And then Michael slays it. BUT in BVS Superman (the demon) doesn't beg for his life, not even once. He begs for the life of another "you're letting him kill Martha! Save her!" So not only did he confuse Bruce with dropping the name Martha but he also was confused because superman didn't care that he was about to die. Genius. All the fans in the world didn't realize or care that Superman and Batman had the same moms name. That fact doesn't matter when they are on the same team but that fact can become very important if they were pitted against each other. This is a much more realistic version than other carnations of batman fighting superman. In "tdkr" Superman and Batman stop fighting because Batman has a heart attack...hahaha...so dumb. Also in that comic, superman fights batman because the government tells him to...like when the fuck did superman start taking orders from the government to fight his partner?? And batman doesn't even technically beat Superman, it was one armed Green arrow shooting Kryptonite at Superman from behind....laaaaame Anyways, I don't if you've ever seen the "greatest movie ever" called Citizen Kane by Wells in 1941 but the Martha moment is a complete reference to that movie with the "rosebud" scene. Signifying something so simple so unimportant but deep down inside its the most important thing ever. Also it's important to note that Snyders mom died in 2010. Her name was Marsha. So I'm sure this play with the moms name was a salute to her as well. Also keep in mind that David Goyer was the writer for Nolans Batman trilogy. He also wrote Man of Steel with Nolan and wrote BvS. So NO, this was not all of Snyder's ideas.
@idawg73326 жыл бұрын
If zack is super obvious with his themes and messages how come people including you miss most of the ideas this movie represents about modern media, politics, religion, and society in general?
Пікірлер
still relevant in 2023 Nov
I love this movie, it’s a guilty pleasure of mine, but… My biggest problem with the film is the fact that Superman’s main motivation for fighting Batman is blackmail. The Martha moment is ok, but I think it could have been executed better. The themes and ideas behind it are fantastic though.
make more videos like this, you have great takes
People always say “show don’t tell” unless it’s BVS 🤨 ever notice that?
When will you return?
Commenting for the algorithm
finally the justice league movie tat continues this amazing work will came soon
Amazing insights. Especially considering my feelings about avengers 2.5
good insight
RIP justice league
The superman diving into water scene! This is why 3 years later I'm still watching BvS analyses. I mean, come on. These movies ARE cinema. WB never should have taken a knee to the MCU. They've always made better films.
I agree!
I keep hearing that GotG is the best marvel movie, but it's the one I dislike the most (GotG2 is worse actually). Something I hear is that people liked the fact that the Guardians are anti-heroes more than heroes but that doesn't make the movie good lol. I've never realized how much exposition dump there was in that movie, I fear for Suicide Squad 2 tbh. Also: the racoon is fcking annoying, + in what universe would movie!Gamora ever fall for movie!Peter Quill?
I disagree about Bryan Cranston as lex luthor, sure it wouldn't as different from the character as eisenburg was, but he could envoke a menace and fear that hasn't been shown before (as seen in breaking bad). He could have been the first lex put to screen that would have been truly terrifying.
Thank you dude I thought I was crazy for really disliking this film. Show don’t tell is right. I mainly have a problem with pretty much all mcu films how they cut all serious moments with a joke because they are scared that people will get bored. I much prefer MoS and BvS and am hopeful for the snydercut. Those films are much better and I like that you have to engage your brain whilst this is just boring childish schlock.
I think this video, with the Twin Perfect's videos and maybe few of another ones, have the most consistency arguments to show how wrong the critics judge this movie. I agree with you. You deserve more views and subscriptions. I see this in 2019. I love MoS and BvS (especially de Ultimate Edition it's a piece of art), and it feels good to found that some people cares about the value of this film. Congratulations for make this video. Greetings.
Alexander Jonl i liked BvS. But i feel bad that i didnt stand up for it sooner. Only in the last few months have a truly fallen in love with this film. I think it is easily the greatest superhero film of all time.
This is fantastic btw
I’m shocked you don’t have more subs. This kinda of analysis is something critics could only dream of doing
Great video !
I agreed with everything you said. Especially about Jessie Eisenberg potrayl of lex Luther. There’s one scene when the senator visits. In the beginning he is charming and delightful to the senator until she says “I’m blocking important license on your shipment”(paraphrasing). His facial expressions, the music and everything that followed was cinematic masterpiece. The Martha scene, this is how I felt when I first saw it. A man who very well knows he’s about to die pleads for safety of his mother. Instead begging to spare his life. That shit was emotional. I find it frustrating when people ignore it like it was just lazy writing. From Batman point of view. He sees himself as joe chill. He’s doing the very thing that caused his life to go down the shitter and become Batman. How the fuck is that lazy writing ?! Anyways there are lot of things I love about this movie and I just can’t get enough it. #deuces.
I love that conversation between Lex and Finch because you can tell how manipulative Lex really is. He starts with trying to appeal to her Kentucky side, with the whisky then to her female/motherly side when he talks about his dad and being a helpless orphan, and then he tries to scare her before he ultimately decides, I'm just gonna kill you lol.
Keep making more of these. I want to see more lol. I think you have an open minded thought process and you definitely pay attention more than the average person.
Right on ... so agreed!
Good video
Whilst there are videos bleeding out now, about Civil War being either the worst MCU movie or seriously overrated. Where as you have multiple channels making videos talking about how brilliant this film is.
Great insight
Unfortunately bvs requires thought to understand while civil war spoonfeeds everything. So of course civil war is considered one of the best of the genre while bvs is considered one of the worst. Fuck me
Ian Levinson Unfortunately BvS concentrated on symbolism and recreating comic book panels instead of a coherent narrative 😒
@@annnee6818 The ultimate cut has a coherent narrative
Its also worth noting that the email scene establishes that there are other metahumans besides Superman; this is actually significant AND important because when you think about, ALL of them are at Batman's mercy. If a normal human with just extensive training and resources can take on the likes of SUPERMAN -who overpowers them ALL, just imagine what he could do to the others? Batman was never hindered by his physical or mental limits, but by his lack of faith in both himself and the world around him. Despite him being a normal human, what his fight with Superman shows is that if he's going down, he's going to drag EVERYONE down with him. But because of the conflict with Superman, Batman will not seek these others out as potential threats, but as allies and brothers in arms. Including them in the plot the way they did actually adds more weight and gravitas to Batman's conflict and journey and raises the stakes, which in turn furthers the importance of Superman in the movie. So while this scene might seem like a forced tie-in to future movies, in it's own context only, it actually adds to the movie and makes it even better.
TorridPrime217 just might use this argument. Very well thought out.
Good stuff. The email scene plays 2 roles: first it pushes Diana over the cusp to join in the fight with DD. She's exposed, cameras are destroyed, other heroes are coming in to the light. More importantly it shows Bruce reaching put to a metahuman for help showing that he deep down knows what he's doing is wrong but can't find his own way out, and the fact that it's a woman gives you a link to why Superman's mother being in peril breaks his falling.
Planet G on top of that, this wasnt a pandering post credit scene to setup the next film. It reflects Bruce's growth. At the end of the film he says he will go find the rest and that men are still good. The "men" he refers to is himself. after superman's sacrifice, bruce has returned to the light. Rather than see other metahumans as threats, he sees them as allies. Too bad modern audiences just want "die hard" style superhero films rather than kubrick style superhero films.
@@josepholsen7450 Also, it conveys to us subtly who Lex Luthor truly is: he's a cold, patient mastermind and an absolute monster. Superman may have been his primary target, but he set his sights for all the metahumans, so he could wipe them all out and become Earth's "savior".
Great video
The email scene was actually a very clever way of depicting how Lex uncovered Bats/Supes identity's. Facial recognition used on WW is enough to deduce who Clark Kent is. Also, it informs Lex's motivation: that humanity not "rely" on "monsters"(as in multiple monsters). If they do, humanities evolution is stunted, & they won't "rely" on Lex. Everything else after(& before) this line reason as to why he desires Clarks death(& to villianize him so he doesn't become a mauder, thus his legacy in ruins)
Why would Lex Luthor , billionaire super evil genius, need to get an "import license" for a rock? Really??? He's Lex Luthor! Oh wait, since he didn't need one anyway to get it into the country - not one customs or government official at the lonely deserted docks - what was point of all that? Answer? There was no point. Like this movie. Just ONE example of stupid and beyond terrible this movie was.
Jack Thompson Actually, there was a point. Sure, he could of and was preparing to take the kryponite anyway, but the point of the important license is necessary to Lex because he wants to stretch his political power. Thus, how you saw one Senator agree to his wishlist, while the other Senator doesn't give him what he wants. Lex was just prepared to get what he wanted, whether by legal or illegal means.
Jack Thompson really that's your gripe with Lex? You can't think any deeper to answer your own question? That's sad. You should stay far far away from philosophical-drama movies because BVS is definitely one of the best within that genre.
Kevin Linsley Thank you.
Hey Cameron! Glad to find your channel! I see what you're saying in here, and I do appreciate the pros you pointed out. However, there's some points that I find kinda iffy. You do a lot to address the technical filmmaking aspect, but the problems mostly lie in the character writings and the pacing (some people like to call this editing). For one, you criticize the Marvel movies for being inconsequential, without having any real stakes. I agree. They're popular and the studio wants to make more Marvel movies. I think they're C+ projects too. But is Batman v Superman any different? We as audience members know that DC wants to make more movies, therefore we know that neither Batman, Superman, nor the planet Earth is gonna die (for good). We know Superman is coming back because everyone knows about the Death of Superman story (also he's another obvious movie Christ figure). We as audience members know that Batman and Superman are gonna end up getting along and team up since we all saw the trailer. So if you're saying Marvel movies (that put up the world, friendship, and civilian casualties as "stakes") have no stakes, then I guess the same would go for BvS:DoJ. You spent a lot of time justifying each major characters in the film that received criticisms except for Wonder Woman. Can you explain what her motivations, desires, purpose for being in the film besides that the studio wanted her in it? Also, why should we care for Superman? The problem with the Martha scene isn't that it wasn't foreshadowed enough, it was just hacky writing. Why would Superman refer to his own mother by her first name? She's not his real mom, but how would he have known that saying "Martha" would bring Batman to his senses? Why would it stop Batman from killing him? Justify it all you want, it could have been done better. Cinematically, Zach knows what he is doing. He's just super obvious with his themes and message, even to the point of telling not showing sometimes especially with the TV spots sequences. It's like watching those The Purge movies. For that reason is why it may rub people off as "trying too hard (to be deep)."
Why would Superman refer to his own mother by her first name? Superman still has a double identity ... so he is giving Batman the name of the person he wants him to save. (because if he aprouches to any place... because Superman doesn't know where she could be.... Lex will know it somehow and will give order to kill Martha) Saying just MOther.. in the worst case ... would make Batman think: Oh crap... ANOTHER kriptonian!!!!. When Batman says: I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason . He is talkinb about his Kriptonian Parents ... because Batman doens't see anything human in Superman. (aparto from how he looks) (just a false god) Saying Martha Stopped The Batman.. because .. 1st. .is a Human Name. He used to be a detective.. and that sense kicks in. WHy that alien would say .. martha. ... 2nd .... The complete phrase ends being... You letting him, kill martha. Find Him.. Save Martha.... Superman pray for someone else's life and gives Batman a reason to keep digging out. Superman plays desesperated last card. Batman is confused but ANGRY and he wants answers. This whole time he just saw Sups as an Alien (nor a god or even a man) (maybe something worst). BECAUSE his principal motivation is how This Superman makes him feel powerless. Batman was useless and he cannot accept it. .. but this alien now is praying for salvation for the life of other. Lois arrives.. and Batman sees everything. HE WAS WRONG. HE is the monster in the room. Batman is the one with power, the desesperated man who was going to kill an innocent person. (pls excuse my english) /( and offcourse BvS had some mistakes... is not a perfect movie by any mean ) (maybe it's only problem is to not being that fun of a ride .. like other movies)
Oh for sure, I see what you're saying. I really hope the writers had all that in mind when they wrote this. However, it's still Superman getting out of a sticky situation because of a coincidence which is often seen as lazy writing. Like I said, it could have been done better since it kinda works with Batman's character, but to the audience members it came out of nowhere.
Sam Nguyen With your point to the Martha scene. Why would Superman refer to his mom by first name? Well you have to acknowledge that at the beginning of the fight Superman refers to Batman as Bruce. So he knows he's Bruce Wayne. Clark is a reporter so a quick Wikipedia search would show you Bruce Wayne is the orphan of Martha and Thomas Wayne who was tragically murdered. Superman tries to explain to Bruce that Lex is setting this up but within his first 3 attempts Bruce shuts superman down. Then it's too late. Next thing superman knows is he's being swung around by batman about to meet his death. But as he's being swung around Bruce talks about each others parents (Bruce referring to SupermaN's supposed Alien parents) and talks about "dying in the gutter for no reason" THIS reminds Superman that Bruce is referring to Martha and Thomas and ironically Martha is who Clark is fighting for so he (who has tried and failed time and time again to talk to Bruce) realizes how to hit (hopefully) Bruce at his core by saying "you're letting him kill Martha" Of coarse this doesn't calm Bruce down. He becomes more enraged, thinking its a trick. Then as Lois clarifies it's Superman mother's name, Bruce then realizes he has become a monster. Now take a moment to notice the reference to St. Michael Archangel. Google Image Search that name. You'll notice the stance Batman has over Superman is literally the same as St.Michael Archangel. Batman (St.Michael) has his foot on the neck of Superman (demon) with a sword or spear pointed at his face or chest. In the story, stmichael is defending mankind from the demon. The demon more or less begs St.Michael for his life. And then Michael slays it. BUT in BVS Superman (the demon) doesn't beg for his life, not even once. He begs for the life of another "you're letting him kill Martha! Save her!" So not only did he confuse Bruce with dropping the name Martha but he also was confused because superman didn't care that he was about to die. Genius. All the fans in the world didn't realize or care that Superman and Batman had the same moms name. That fact doesn't matter when they are on the same team but that fact can become very important if they were pitted against each other. This is a much more realistic version than other carnations of batman fighting superman. In "tdkr" Superman and Batman stop fighting because Batman has a heart attack...hahaha...so dumb. Also in that comic, superman fights batman because the government tells him to...like when the fuck did superman start taking orders from the government to fight his partner?? And batman doesn't even technically beat Superman, it was one armed Green arrow shooting Kryptonite at Superman from behind....laaaaame Anyways, I don't if you've ever seen the "greatest movie ever" called Citizen Kane by Wells in 1941 but the Martha moment is a complete reference to that movie with the "rosebud" scene. Signifying something so simple so unimportant but deep down inside its the most important thing ever. Also it's important to note that Snyders mom died in 2010. Her name was Marsha. So I'm sure this play with the moms name was a salute to her as well. Also keep in mind that David Goyer was the writer for Nolans Batman trilogy. He also wrote Man of Steel with Nolan and wrote BvS. So NO, this was not all of Snyder's ideas.
If zack is super obvious with his themes and messages how come people including you miss most of the ideas this movie represents about modern media, politics, religion, and society in general?
Kevin Linsley killed it with the info.