What I love about these new smaller motors is just simply the fact that ebikes can look more like analogue bikes. It's purely aesthetic for me and rightly as you said Sam it allows more room for the frame designers to do so much more with suspension design, which larger motors simply won't allow.

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Thanks brother yes the form factor of this motor is the best on the market and also it makes already made analog Bikes much easier and cheaper for the bike brands to adapt into Bikes

yes long term review would be good im defiantly interested in this motor set up for sure

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Coming soon! If ZF send me one

ZF is a gearbox manufacturer... Give it a year and we will have a competitor to the Pinion MGU i bet. Really cool motor but I will wait and see what they come up with in the gearbox department.

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Very good point let’s see what they can do

@asifitmatters1

20 күн бұрын

Very much doubt that they would make such a niche product.

@BT_life2

20 күн бұрын

@@asifitmatters1why? When’s it’s the future of e-bikes? 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣

@asifitmatters1

20 күн бұрын

@@BT_life2 definitely not the future of e-bikes. This has been the “future” for two decades and it’s gone nowhere. If someone actually made a cheap super long lasting gearbox it would never make it into the market in today’s world. We no longer build things to last a lifetime.

@ThePlayasyougo

20 күн бұрын

ZF make more than gearboxes. They make suspension for most of the Porsche GT4 RS and other GT cars.

Nice one Sam thank a motor is really interesting and can't wait to see what bikes it comes on in the future. There are going to be a few manufacturers knocking on their door

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Thanks mate what a year for ebikes

What are thinking riders? love it or not?

@siriosstar4789

17 күн бұрын

i love the look of the motor . it's very compact and streamlined . i suspect the quality will be quite high as ZF is known for that . i do wonder where it's made . maybe in Germany or the chech republic or poland ?

ZFs first venture into e bike motors was the Sachs . in fact they still list at least six bike companies that use the sachs (Now BMZ ) on their website . Now that BMz owns Sachs i'm not sure what their relationship with these other companies is .

Yes, I would love to see a full review video off road 😀

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Thanks 🙏 rider fingers crossed

Definitely interested in a full review of this - especially given the oil bath and guarantee

Long Term Test👏 Long Term Test👏

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

👍 let’s see

Definitely interested in a proper test on this motor Sam think this is where the industry is leading full fat motor power in a small package which like you said allows frame designers to have more freedom in their designs

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Thanks Dave lets see if they will send me one.

Love the size, the weight, the power. I love that it’s 48V. I wish it had a max 1000w and maybe continuous 600w. I think motors like that and the TQ are perfect size, now we need batteries that are a little more dense so we can have smaller battery form factor so the ebikes will be even harder to identify. I love the direction of ebikes. Now we need full customizable software to dial them in to our personal preferences

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Thanks mate totally agree the future is exciting

OK, a few observations. I don't think anyone has mentioned why the motor might need an oil bath. The motor appears to be an outrunner design - which produce high torque in a small space, and also run at a lower speed than inrunner designs (which are used by almost every other manufacturer to date). Even TQ use an inrunner in their design, and you can see that ZF are achieving 2x the torque in approximately the same size here. The big issue with outrunner motors is that the stator (being buried deep in the motor and with airgaps all around) become very difficult to cool - hence the oil bath. I'd be really interested in a technical breakdown if as a bona fide reviewer you can get access to the information - more details about the guts of the motor, but also power/torque/efficiency curves; what cadence range is this motor most efficient at; some motors operate well down the curve and never achieve peak efficiency from pedaling, would only do so under throttle assist. It would also be interesting to see how ZF are preventing damage from overheating. My ebike motor (also an outrunner) smoothly reduces power when the motor or controller reaches ~80C and this works well; some other manufacturers just let the motor fry. The customer gets to pay for it to be fixed. I also like how the rear wheel speed sensor is arranged, but can that be configured with other rotors or is it set to just the one determined by the bike manufacturer. While it would be interesting, I'm not sure how much value a trail ride might be, based on just one bike from an unknown manufacturer. We need to see more familiar configurations from other manufacturers. It seem easy to build bikes that follow current trends that look right but handle like aircraft carriers. TQ pulled off quite a coup by getting a major brand on board early. I certainly agree with your comment that the ebike industry needs a shake up, there isn't a lot of innovation from the big players and certainly no incentive to force market penetration by getting prices down to make these bikes more accessible to more people. And then there is the whole issue of locking stuff down and serviceability...and parts.

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Thanks for you great response

👏👏👏👏never heard of them either, but I like the look of the motor

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

It’s a rad motor

Like the dji motor I would like to see a long term test for the zf, and of course I also would like to try them.

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

they are coming soon

Yes to long term, real life review!

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

I will try my best David lets see if ZF play ball

Yes mate we want to see a full test. thank you

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Coming soon!

I really want to see an in-depth review of this bike and system along with the DJI . Smaller motors with more output is the way to go. It’s going to be interesting to see what the other manufacturers come up with going forward. Great article Sam looking forward to the next one 👍

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Thanks Ian fingers crossed I can get my hands on one

Oh ya we need your range test and climbing appraisal

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

fingers cross they send it out for testing

They give lifetime warranty on the zf!?!

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

I would very much doubt that

Yes I’d like to see a full review.

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Fingers crossed

Motor is small, but the battery seems to be big. I hope ZF will allow non-standard batteries into their system.

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Very good point

@eaze7324

20 күн бұрын

They already said you can use everything from 3rd party, even displays if you want

@hindesite

20 күн бұрын

@@eaze7324 maybe, but that will be the bike manufacturer and not the end user.

Nice work Sam! Is this just another brand as with DJI that we will not be able to get down in NZ and Aussie? Long-term review in real-world conditions to see if the small motors with high power will overheat?

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

I know for a fact DJI will be selling in Oz in the first run so get ready! Definitely want to test both in the real world not a car park

You really have to test this motor!!!

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

I know

Long term test please, would be interesting to see the performance difference of this type of gearbox as this is a strain wave type that allows for this compact shape :)

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

I’ll try my best to

This could explain the massive bottom bracket on the pro road bikes. 🤔😂🤣😃

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

hahaha

Reliability, serviceability, warranty, support, Reliability, serviceability, warranty, support. Reliability, serviceability, warranty, support. (Yes i have PTSD from dealing with the warranty weasels at Specialized)

@jpravetz

20 күн бұрын

Oh, and also I'm curious if the better power at low cadence may actually make this a more powerful motor than the competitors, on steep climbs

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

I need more than 1 hour to test

@jpravetz

16 күн бұрын

​@@SamsBikesand maybe some dirt. And a hill. 😂

Please @ZF, send Sam‘s bike a bike with your new motor for a professional test!

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Thanks brother lets see

How servicable will it be, will ZF supply parts for it to be repaired?

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

lets see if they send it out for a test ill be asking them that

Yes please i am looking for a new bike and this motor is interesting want to see how it performs in the trails

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Let’s see if ZR sends me one

Will the ZF software be able to control the rear mech? Like an auto mode? Be perfect if it could 🙂

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

not sure but possibly

long term test please

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

fingers crossed

I reckon the unit is too wide for use onn most frames to look nice and sleek like most, if they can refine the unit to a sleeker profile, I think it'll be a winner. As for the mounting system, much better design more so for the shops to work on etc.

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

I thought that as well but the Q factor is standard

Full review!! 8:12

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Thanks I’ll try my best

From an Electrical Engineer: overcharged throwaway motor, I only hope this is not the trend.

@mintsauce101

19 күн бұрын

It comes with a lifetime warranty. Even though you may be an electrical engineer, how much time have you spent with the unit to make that assessment? That’s right, none😂

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

I think ZF know what they are doing

Long term review yes please Did I hear right, that this is in an oil bath internally ? That would be potentially a game changer in terms of preventing water ingress and hence reliability 🎉 My Maserati Levante has a ZF gearbox so familiar with the brand 😊

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Yes to the oil bath and yes the review should follow

Size matters, no matter what anyone says

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Haha 🤣 true

Definitely need a long term review and also a long term review on the DJI which I think at 2.52kg 1000w 120nm is next nevel keep up the good work Sam 👌

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Thanks Shane lets see if ZF send me one out

How can i buy this motor

Like to see a throttle option on this , Is bafang the only one that has a throttle?

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

na its a ebike not a motor bike

@jasonkroll2735

16 күн бұрын

@@SamsBikes my EBIKE has a throttle. And the dji has a "MOTOR" . So your classifications are a cop out.

Yep long term test

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Let me try

Needs a wireless remote, integrated display into the top tube, 600wh + Extender option. 2nd gen to include gearbox please - everyone hates chains and shifters

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Good points

Overheating in standard package or maximum power for 15 seconds😂?😊

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Na I don’t think so

@pawelodz8050

19 күн бұрын

@@SamsBikes will see 😉

What is driveline loss when battery is removed/dead in watts? Did you use Garmin power pedals during test ride?? Has manufacturer committed to at least ten years of form factor frame interface stability? Why? imagine a camera company changing the lens mount every year. Overrun is stupid dangerous, just put a thumb throttle already.

Long term :)

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

lets see if they send it out

ZF make gearboxes for cars truck ships so why not Ebike, so for me the job is half done. Make an MGU ZF, then you elevate from a crowed field of motors to a select few who can make an MGU

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Very good point

What motor company do you think will come out with regenerative braking so riders can get more out of their batteries?

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

I think that’s long off

isn't that the one with the clutch inside ?

@hindesite

20 күн бұрын

They all have clutches inside.

@GozillaFirefox

19 күн бұрын

@@hindesite not really - all motors have freewheels inside, which would qualify as a clutch terminology-wise. This motor is the only one to additionally have a slip clutch

@hindesite

19 күн бұрын

@GozillaFirefox you are correct: A representative from ZF says, "The reductions are realized by using a single strain wave gear with the ratio 1:50, combined with a clutch to avoid overloads, which is unique in the market". However many motors (and likely this one) will have at least one Spragg clutch, my motor has 2. More rapid engagement than systems with freewheels.

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

Yes I did hear something about that but so do alot of the motors from my understanding

Can the speed limiter be changed is big questio? Changing rear sensor ring to 30 holes should fool bike that you actually going slower. Or a chip company come up with something.

@hindesite

20 күн бұрын

ZF already address that on their website. No. And attempts to circumvent are logged and void warranty.

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

I very much doubt you can play with the speed

Power available is not as important as efficiency, yet nobody measures and publicize these new members

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

you don't know my channel? I talk about range alot

as a car enthusiast I was "hell yeah ZF a real motor engine transmission brand" but then someone commented "what about the cooling" and yeah that's a very good concern the TQ apparently is known for that, I didn't get overheat in a bosch gen 3 I think ? but it was very hot...well we did 6561ft with 35°C 95°F

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Let see in my long term test

Can't wait to pay for 2 arms and 2 legs for this on a bike.

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

I feel motor motor players will bring the price down

More manufacturers means more competition and all the rest gotta rise the level… The e-bike market is definitely best than ever, and thankfully worst than what is coming in the near future. Future seems to be bright mate.

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Totally bro so many good options

Can the max speed be set to 45 kmh?

@hindesite

20 күн бұрын

Or turned off completely. Not all countries have speed restrictions for bikes.

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

No you speed will be set by your bike dealer using the FZ software I think

It looks more like a motorcycle than a bicycle, good for those with physical disabilities.

If the premium brands don’t pick it up then it’s going to be a flop. I mean who on earth is Raymon????? I tested the motor at Eurobike and on the flat ground it was really impressive, but the bike it was in really didn’t appeal to me at all. I think it’s going to be really hard to convince the top tier brands to move away from Shimano, Bosch or house motors…

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

lets see how it develops if the system is better the brands will go

@asifitmatters1

16 күн бұрын

@@SamsBikes not sure that quality or user experience is the biggest concern of bike brands today… the quality of everything has been slipping. When I think back to 2005 and how often something broke or needed to be maintained on my bike compared to what now seems like almost a weekly occurrence I really do wonder what on earth all these r and d people are doing. I remember never having to bleed the brakes or have my suspension need a service every twenty minutes and when I crashed my brake levers didn’t just snap off and my frame crack. In one season I have had three frames, two motors, five Magura master cylinders, a shock fail, chains snap like they were made of butter, and two saddles!!!! Not to mention all the constant tinkering and adjusting required.

the batteries are too large

@SamsBikes

16 күн бұрын

yep they need work

I love the content, but i find that you're using too much background noise reduction on your recent povs. Its less engaging, just like listening to a podcast in a way. Well that's just me thanks

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Noted! We were editing under the pump and it wasn’t perfect definitely will improve thanks for the feedback I

ZF makes the best transmissions in the auto market. This motor looks great but the battery looks bulky and the peripherals are wired. Boo

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Yep 👍 not a fan of the batteries 🔋 or remote but the motor is rad

@SamsBikes

19 күн бұрын

Thanks

@Rideoak

19 күн бұрын

@@SamsBikes Thank you, Sam!

that display sucks - rest is rad

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Agree

What I love about these new smaller motors is just simply the fact that ebikes can look more like analogue bikes. It's purely aesthetic for me and rightly as you said Sam it allows more room for the frame designers to do so much more with suspension design, which larger motors simply won't allow.

@SamsBikes

20 күн бұрын

Totally agree