Are you currently using Z-Zwave? Do you think Z-Wave is dead?

@FrederikVos

7 ай бұрын

Trident is increasing their investments and put a lot of effort into z-wave, it is not dependent any longer on one chip vendor any longer. Rumors are that there will be a third one very soon. And all the products are interoperable. Matter is still a mess and will stay that way the coming years

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

Trident coming onstream will help. I think the next 12 to 24 months will be worth watching. If Z-wave can do more just survive, but grow, then it might still have a chance. I am pessimistic, but as I stated in the video, it will never completely die, but I think its chance of hitting the mainstream market is over.

@FrederikVos

7 ай бұрын

@@DoItForMeSolutions I don't see why there will be any change in the coming 2 years. Zigbee is a big mess regarding security, stability, and compatibility; Matter and Thread are still failing. As long as vendors like Fibaro, Aeotec, Zooz, and others are still extending their portfolio, I don't see any issue. Both ecosystems will stay for 5 years at least, and probably more. That's fine: competition is necessary.

@cooliipie

4 ай бұрын

Less than a year ago I recently bought over 20 Z-Wave devices for my smart home. Nothing else comes close to the functionality so I know I don't think they are dying anytime soon. Thread was a great idea but after I found out it runs on the same frequency as Wi-Fi I was no longer interested.

@DoItForMeSolutions

4 ай бұрын

@@cooliipieDefinitely agree that Z-Wave and other existing tech isn't go away immediately, if ever. This is more of a high-level view of trends and directions as changes like this take time. Thread is still too new to say how it will handle large and complicated installations and hasn't been out long enough for good reliability data on the hardware itself, but it is the "favorite du jour" for now for low-power wireless. Unfortunately, a lot of wireless tech shares the ISM bands because of the ease of designing and manufacturing unlicensed wireless. Currently, I believe Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Thread, and Zigbee all share the same frequencies - at least in the US. (European and ROW frequencies vary by country and region). And, of course, the ubiquitous microwave oven operates in the 2.4 GHz band too and do cause interference to nearby devices, but anecdotally that seems limited to short distances of a few feet.

Since I started building my smart home with Home Assistant, about 18 months ago, I've bought several Z-Wave and Zigbee devices. A large number of devices were only available as Z-Wave devices, but going forward I think I'll prefer Zigbee. But I've had very little issues with both Z-Wave and Zigbee. I recently got a new USB dongle that supports Zigbee and Thread, so regardless of which standard wins, I'm covered. As long as my Z-Wave controller/devices and HA integrations keep working, I don't really care which standard wins.

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

Good plan. Keep what is working and evolve as things unfold. No rush.

@EsotericArctos

5 ай бұрын

I have similar. Also using the most popular open source automation program, Home Assistant. Z-Wave is not going anywhere and if someone finds sensors that they like in Z-wave, I would say buy them as regardless of what happens with the companies selling them, they will work long term as they are 100% local and form a secure, 100% local mesh network. An Aeotec stick, Home Assistant and some Z-Wave sensors will still be running fine in 20, 30, 100 years setting aside actual electronics failures. If a sensor fails, you will be replacing it anyway, so if for some bizaar reason an equivalent Z-Wave is not available, you'd go and get a Zigbee, thread/Wifi Matter, or whatever the new protocol is in a few years time that says it will fix all the issues Matter has.

@MatthewWeiler1984

5 ай бұрын

@@EsotericArctos for sure. I recently wanted to add a main Water Shutoff for my house, the only option was Z-Wave. But as expected, it's completely solid.

Since I run Home Assistant I can use multiple protocols at the same time and I can integrate new protocols if and when needed. I currently have both Zigbee and Z-Wave. Both are working fine but I like the range I get with Z-Wave.

@DoItForMeSolutions

5 ай бұрын

Flexibility of Home Assistant is a great way to give you the most options and leverage whatever is the optimal choice at a given time.

You got basic facts wrong about these standards while making broad pronouncements. For example, there are now two suppliers of Z-wave chips. Also, the newest iteration of Z-wave is no longer a mesh network but star-patterned with lower latency and MASSIVE range that Zigbee/thread can't compete with. You stated that device manufacturers are thinking about switching to Thread when the premier Zigbee partner, Hue, has stated publicly that they have no plans to switch to Thread. Also, Zigbee didn't "merge" with Matter. The Zigbee Alliance rebranded to the Connectivity Standards Alliance to distance itself from Zigbee and chart a new path forward with Matter and Thread since Zigbee failed to gain market dominance.

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

Yes, thanks for mentioning that! I just saw recently that a small, specialty fab house has signed-on as a second source for Z-wave chips. Hopefully, they can spin up their production volume and prove to be a reliable supplier. Not sure how much capacity they have or their lead times, but that does allow Z-Wave to tick the "second source available" marketing box at least.

Zwave is the better tech because of wireless frequency, range, and reliability...i like that my home automation network isnt competing for the same bandwidth that zigabee, bluetooth, and wifi use... the only issue i have with zwave is that amazon pushed zigabee to higher popularity. Im not worried about threads/matter because it has backward compatibility to zwave. It isnt going to force zwave out. Future is probably a mix of zwave, zigabee and matter which most hubs support.

@DoItForMeSolutions

6 ай бұрын

Future will definitely be a mix for a while. Nothing already in use will stop working, it will all be change over time, not quickly.

@cooliipie

3 ай бұрын

Agreed 100%. My whole home is filled with over 100 Z-wave devices within the last year

@stevealexander8010

7 күн бұрын

Better that WHAT ? He mentions wifi, bt, zigbee, Thread, Matter and several others - your post is gibberish w/o spec'ing the point of comparison. IMO zigbee popularity has nothing to do with amazon, and it IS available in lower frequencies. The Thread protocol *looks* better on paper.

Home Automation is something I'm hoping to delve into at some point, but honestly any new "standard" or protocol that has Big Tech's fingerprints all over it, I'm not interested in. It's a BAD thing, not a benefit. You just know it's going to become overpriced, closed source, closed ecosystem, limited functionality, limited accessibility, limited customisability, "you don't own this" terms and conditions, cloud-exclusive, subscription payment, spyware hell.

@DoItForMeSolutions

2 ай бұрын

I agree with the goals (keep everything open, avoid high patent/license fees), but a lot of what we use today only exists because of standards. "Big Tech" telecomm standards allows incredible cellphones we can take not just to any city or state, but just about anywhere on the globe in any country, and it works with very little hassle. "Big Tech" IT standards like Ethernet network protocols and fiber-optic comms hardware means Internet connectivity is cheap, wide-spread, and even available via space-launched clusters of micro-satellites. Smart Home suffers from the fragmentation and walled-gardens (I call them walled-prisons) because we don't have clear-cut, industry-wide standards. It may NOT be the solution that works, but the emerging "Big Tech" Matter standard and a few other standards getting wider adoption does have the potential.

@rakeau

2 ай бұрын

@@DoItForMeSolutions I said “standard”, not standard. The quotes matter. I’m fine with standardisation, it’s a good thing. But modern big tech companies are not our friend and what we will get won’t be a standard persay. The right word is probably “propitiatory”, which will only limit the tech. It’s simple: Do we want the Googles and Amazons and Apples of the world defining and controlling these technologies? No, no we don’t.

Zwave's biggest issue has always been Zigbee. "Matter" now apparently as well. Zigbee's biggest issue, at least a few years ago, was a lack of diversity in devices using the standard. When building out my Homeseer based Home Automation system, I did decide to rely heavily on Zwave. Wall switches, front door lock, and a variety of sensors around the house are all Zwave. Mainly because many devices were available, although the cost was absurdly high in some cases. The nice thing is that with a new standard, I can just add another controller and have those devices too. As the Zwave based items on my system wear out, I'll just replace them with the new standard. I am not at all surprised that Zwave is dying. Being a closed standard, with absurdly high licensing costs was never going to be a long term solution in the market. Not when there were already existing open source standards available to manufacturers. I just fell into that time period, where Zwave was more prevalent than anything else.

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

Well said. It is an evolution, and I believe many will move away from Z-Wave, but it will not happen immediately.

@FrederikVos

7 ай бұрын

Z-Wave has been an open standard for years (2019), and the source code is published under the BSD-3 license (shared source, not open source 2021/2022).

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

Not really relevant. Standards, or lack thereof, do not, by themselves, ensure market dominance. In fact, some of the most proprietary technologies have become the most successful worldwide products. Best example: Dolby processing for audio and video. It's a de facto standard in every piece of audio and video gear but is the proprietary technology of Dolby Labs.

@EsotericArctos

5 ай бұрын

Don't confuse Matter for the lower radio protocols like Zigbee, Z-Wave, Thread etc. Thread is the competitor not Matter. Matter is an application layer built on top of the radio protocol. In the future, Z-Wave could be included as a radio in the Matter protocol. Originally it was going to be Thread, Zigbee amd WiFI with Z-Wave also considered. Currently the implementation of Matter was narrowed to BLE for commissioning, and Thread or WiFi for communications. This could change in the future and Zigbee and Z-Wave could be introduced as radios under the Matter application layer. Too many confuse these. Thread and WiFi are the radios that compete with Zigbee and Z-Wave. Matter is the application layer on top. It is not competition for any of the radio protocols. Thread and some Thread based devices existed long before Matter was even CHiP and long before CHiP was even considered a thing.

@DoItForMeSolutions

2 ай бұрын

Yes, I have to explain that difference better as it is also something I keep repeating to many people "Thread is not Matter". Truly a missed opportunity that Z-Wave was not a foundational choice for Matter wireless transport. I am researching further into why that didn't happen.

Does Z-wave work with HomeKit?

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

Not directly. Haven't seen many bridges to HomeKit for Z-Wave but there should be some available at least in the hobbyist arena.

@al_x_ander

7 ай бұрын

Hubitat officially supports Homekit and has z-wave, so yes, through a hub.

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

@@al_x_ander Is Hubitat Apple certified for HomeKit? I didn't see the on the official Apple list. (If they have implemented HomeBridge or equivalent and support it, that is cool, but not the same thing as being fully certified for HomeKit.)

@al_x_ander

7 ай бұрын

@@DoItForMeSolutions It is a direct, built-in Hubitat integration that is currently awaiting Apple certification. The Hubitat folks said that once certification occurs on whatever timetable Apple has in mind, it won't alter the current functionality.

@EsotericArctos

5 ай бұрын

Home Assistant will bring your Z-Wave into HomeKit, but nothing directly. HomeKit is more supporting BLE and Bluetooth, though I believe Thread is also support in HomeKit. If I recall correctly, HomeKit does not directly support Zigbee either, though some hubs can be brought in via your wifi / wired network

Zwave organization always sucked, that's why Zigbee exists.

@DoItForMeSolutions

7 ай бұрын

🤣

@cooliipie

4 ай бұрын

ZigBee uses same frequency as wifi though. Not interested

@liquidthex

4 ай бұрын

@@cooliipieFair, but good luck with alternatives. I have high hopes for Matter over Thread.

@cooliipie

3 ай бұрын

​​​ Thread also uses 2.4ghz... I've equipped my home with over 100 Z-wave tech in the past year. Absolutely loving it. I can definitely see thread becoming mainstream because it has been seen as more trendy and typically accompanied with the trendy matter protocol. And I will admit that it's great it doesn't need a hub, just a border router. I'm not yet sure on its ability to run locally and not bog down the network. Regardless, it still interferes via 2.4ghz.