This guy is the definition of “subject matter expert”.

The first 4 minutes of this video cover my shoe / foot issues to a T. Wide forefoot with "bumps" that make Bont's "bathtub sole" uncomfortable. I've had Lake MX237s for years as Lakes are the only wide shoe that kind of works. I just wish Lake shoes didn't force one's outer toes inward for the sake of style for that dress shoe-like pointy toe box (like most cycling shoes do). My large toes ache on occasion at first joint form being forced inward instead of being able to stay straight like they are when I'm not wearing shoes.

Moving to lake shoes was the best move i made. The Roo leather and more so the fit are amazing.

One thing I'll add about shoe flex is that many times, nylon shoes in particular, you can feel the cleat and pedal through the sole. A bigger problem with 2-bolt cleats but those are also the less stiff shoes.

I have an obsene amount of Shoes. Bont, Giro, Shimano, Suplest, Including Northwave. Your point on their width is partly correct. The 2nd tier Extreme GT is actually very broad in width. But the pro level Extreme Pro is quite narrow. Sole stiffness is so true. Great content thanks.

I only use Lake shoes I have flat feet and tried many brands sizes etc and then found Lake and they work so well for me and last brilliantly love them would never look at other brands ❤🤩🚴🏅

Thanks for your in depth videos. Really helped me with selecting new shoes. Landed in lake cx302's.

The construction of the upper is also super important. If you have crappy unstable feet (like myself), i’d recommend staying away from any knitted style shoes… they wrecked havoc on mine for a short period of time!

Great subject Neil. Lake has a terrific chart on their website that shows the width of all the shoe types from very wide to really narrow. My foot is around 100 mm across the forefoot. Finding narrow shoes locally was impossible, so it was mail order for me.

Thanks a lot for covering this issue 🙌

Awesome video again guys. Love my Lake's like where a pair of slippers so comfortable. Check out the Lake CX241 have a different Bora set up as well for the wider foot.

Fizik VENTO OMNA WIDE Saved my legs!!!

Took me years to find a GREAT shoe and I love the 332 extra wide 👌

Definitely fit is very important, I always have to try on shoes, none of this buying to size from the internet. I may know my size, but some shoes fit narrower than others, especially cycling shoes, when you have go to a wide fit, or even a size up.

6:28 extremely good insight, I totally understood it. But I have a doubt in my mind: I agree that the force springing off the shoe will get reintroduced into the system, but by the time that happens your foot is no longer in the right position for a pedal stroke, and in fact the crank arm is in a position that actually goes against you, and not for you.

I went from a lightweight carbon soled shoe with some flex back to my old sidi wires. I have a narrow foot very high arch and I have upsized a size and I use a quality arch support. Heavier show but I just love the stiffer sole on Sidi.I do love suplest shoes they are my next choice

Love my Lake shoes. I used to wear all sorts but Sidi was the most uncomfortable for my feet. Recently, I started wearing the Rapha classic laced-up shoes. They are by far the best comfortable shoes for my liking.

@glennoc8585

Жыл бұрын

I had Gaerne MTB shoes with laces. They were very comfortable

I’ve got LAKE CX402, BONT VAYPOR-S & SHIMANO S-PHYRE 902. LAKE are the most comfortable, BONT took a long time to « break » and adapt but now I love them, great power transfer (feels like it) but they don’t look amazing. SHIMANO top end shoes are not very comfortable for me… but they look gorgeous.

Really love my DMT shoes. So comfortable. I'm very wide.

I think I am those lucky ones who found the perfect cycling shoes for themselves on the second try. It's a Bont Vaypor S. After 7 years still no problem aside from the wear and tear, no pains, no discomfort, no nothing even on long rides. I heat molded it once and just forgot about it completely, and I love it so much. So for me personally, if I were to get a new pair in the future, chances are I'll still be getting the same one.

@kevinfrost1579

Жыл бұрын

Ditto 10 + years in Vaypours. Used for 8 -10 K miles annually . Suit my wide foot and narrow heels. Now on 3rd pair. Always keep a new spare pair in hand. My biggest fear is Bont alter the design / fit as current set up is perfect for me. Cheers Bont 👍

Such an underrated shoe brand in the cycling industry. My 3 year old CX332X is the best shoe ever and definitely wider than Sphyre wide which is not really wide at all. And 100% agree with Bont’s design I have accessory navicular and it’s not suitable.

Good video, thank you. Due to high arc I used to buy one size up. It looks like there are another options available. Recently I found Specialized shoes fit high volume feet nicely.

Well explained 🎉🎉😊😊 off to try on some shoes!!!! thanks 🎉🎉🎉🎉

Yes, Sidi underlines your point about carbon soled shoes needing some flex or they get uncomfortable. Contrast with Specialized who believe the stiffer you go, the better

Always a pleasure to get input from Neill. His knowledge and consideration on the subject is unparalleled. Cheers for uploading, Cam.

This is fantastic, would be good to do an update based on the current shoe market. Principles remain the same! Thank you

Really interesting video. I've spent the last dozen years fitting and selling premium road shoes and come to the same conclusion as you. I would add the following observations on specific brands and personal experience as a 42 with 14mm forefoot width.: 1. Sidis are generally narrow but the inclusion of the "wire closure" increased volume dramatically and exclude narrow but shallow feet. 2. Giro, DMT and Fizik are good fits for narrow, shallow, straight feet. 3. High end Shimano and Specialized shoes do not open wide vertically and do not suit people with tall mid foots. Laced uppers solve this for those people. 4. Another issue caused by "sizing up" is that the arch will be incorrectly positioned and cause discomfort even with rigid insoles. Keep making these great informative and educational videos. Cheers. mate.

@danielvalenzuela7

Ай бұрын

This should be the top comment. Thanks Julian!

Thank you for another great video. I have tried many shoes. I have a bit a wide foot and Giro or Specialized shoes seem to fit me best.

Had a lot of issues with totally dead numb right foot and slightly numb left foot with my Shimano shoes. I have EU 43 in street shoes, but in my bike shoes I now use 45 (Van Rysel) and no more numbness anymore. The 43E (extra wide) Shimanos were way to tight, even with them being left totally "open", my feet got numb after about 20 km.

Cleat postion is a big factor for long feet as mentioned. I switched from Sidi 46.5 to Specialized 46's and found I could set the cleats further back by about 3-4mm. In addition, the Specalized shoe has adjustable bolt holes where the Sidi's do not adjust.

@frankchan5547

Жыл бұрын

All my road Sidis have fore/aft adjustment

I have worn many different brands of cycling shoes over the years. By far, the best fit for me are the Specialized S-works shoes. They are so comfortable I want to wear them all day long. I have a "normal" width foot.

@ronitdebnath

Жыл бұрын

Do consider the fact that it doesn't have a neutral forefoot. But yes S torch shoes are extremely comfortable.

Excellent video!! Can vouch for Lake shoes, prob the best in the market for wide feet. I just got some Fizik wide and noted that sole curvature Neil is talking about. I can feel a void on the inside of the toe box and pressure on the outside. I changed the insoles and after a few rides they fit much better, but my Lake CX 237 (same ones as shown in the video) are still my favorite. Good insoles are also very important. Most shoes come with cardboard-like insoles.

@monsters8730

11 ай бұрын

I tried some Lake shoes and while they were confortable around the forefoot, the heel kept slipping out. Is that your experience, too?

@TDZed

11 ай бұрын

@@monsters8730 no, did not have that issue, are you sure they aren't too long?

Another fantastic content, thank you 👍 A #question for Part 2: feet asymmetry - I know the basics, I size up to the bigger foot. But what's next? What to do with the smaller foot living in the bigger shoe? I feel it's a bit loose.

I use and love my Lake cycling shoes. I do have one foot wider then the other. I have tried Bontrager, Giro and Sidi but no bueno for me

I've never been able to understand how a stiff sole prevents "flex" when the conventional cleat position puts the pedal axle at or behind the ball of the foot. The first thing that appreciably "bends" is the decidedly non-rigid ankle!

Oddly enough, I have wide feet but struggled with new Lakes (compared to previous Northwaves). However, new insoles with more support seem to have cured it

Lakes shoes are really wide and changed my riding fully. Had to narrow shoes for years, not only for riding, and changed to wide barefoot shoes. Since then many problems I had with my feet and knees disappeared but I could not find any shoe for riding that would not hurt till I found Lake. And btw Shimano shoes offers wide shoes but they are really the same shoe at the bottom and just have more material at the top, which will help a bit with big feet but almost zero effect with a wide forefoot. Tested them and was suprised why the wide ones were as bad as the normal ones in terms of fitting till I found out why.

I've been buying larger size shorts than I should to have wider toeboxes, I measure a hair over 11.5US and have bought 12.3/48 Shimano wide in the past. It worked for years but ultimately it put the outer ball of my foot a little far back in the shoe's curve which was causing occasional problems if the length shifted and it compressed my ball. They've discontinued the shots I have and they're worn out. Looking at lake and bont, but bont double wire which should fit port measurements are special order, no returns. A very expensive gamble!!

And there's the next side by side product test! Find a pair of super stiff shoes (SPhyres are a good option); some lower budget, non-carbon sole, cycling shoe; and a pair of runners or even thongs. Just for shits and giggles to see what the power output effects are. But speaking of SPhyres, I've owned the 900s, and now the 902s. On a long and not so smooth local descent, I'm finding the soles of my feet get bashed around a lot in the new pair, and become quite fatigued. They're otherwise reassuringly comfortable, and a pleasure to ride in, but they seem way stiffer, or less forgiving, than the first Gen SPhyre.

Sidi Mega shoes forever ❤️ Lake are tight for me @ 44 size

I have high arches, wide feet, so a difficult combo to fit. The size up comment has given me lots of griefs as explained. Even with the cleat all the way back and a Speedplay extender plate it is just marginally right for me. Lake Wide's have definitely been a game changer. I completely understand your tongue comment, but usually the point of discomfort for me in on the point where the tongue is attached to the shoe. That part is hard and not flexible, and usually is not high enough for me. Leather Lake's are great for this, as they "break in", not so much with the latest synthetic leather options.

Жыл бұрын

for me Lake's extra-wide is still way too narrow :

Great topic and cannot get enough information on cycling shoes. Questions for Neil & Cam. I have worn Shimano and Rapha shoes. In both cases my 2nd and 3rd toe on the my right foot rub the top of the toe box. I know have nice calluses or corns on the top of my toes. This didn't happen in a pair of entry level Specialized. In this case do I need a more narrow shoe to keep the foot more stable or something with a taller toe box? Odd that it is only one foot. Could this be an arch support issue as well. Thanks in advance.

Shimano's latest 'wides' are significantly narrower than their old normals. Their large sizes are also significantly shorter, and their latest 903 and gravel shoes only go up to 48 instead of 50, compounding the problem even further. If you have long or wide feet, Shimano's latest models are a disaster unfortunately.

@TheCyclingCardio

Жыл бұрын

Their shape become similar to Sworks

I believe Lake CX237 is full grain cow leather? as CX238 is. Also for example Lake CX332 has very curved out sole while CX238 is pretty flat. I am curious how they make difference in fit.

5:40 do you have any recommendations for a soft (but thin) insole? I love my cycling shoes but the insoles are very cheap and hard, and most aftermarket insoles seem to be excessively thick

My old Shimano's size 44 wide seem too narrow and I am looking to upgrade to Lake. Do Lake cycling shoes run true to size> Could you "PLEASE RECOMMEND A SIZE FOR ME" Do I need LAKE WIDE or Ex wide ?? The widest part of my foot is about 11 mm and the length is about 126.3 mm. I wear Asics size 9.5 ex wide running shoes. Great video !!

If Lake would reduce the price for buying two individual shoes of different size (special order) it would be a game changer. Shoes are all made individually. In this age of internet purchases and direct to consumer, why not make it easier and cheaper?

@beltonhogue

Жыл бұрын

......um, greediness?

@abbreviateTome

10 ай бұрын

Economies of scale. Cycling is a tight niche. Any industry like that make up their cost with high prices.

@brianmurray8943

10 ай бұрын

Well, seeing as you should really only have to buy a pair every 5-8 years, the price is well worth it imo.

@abbreviateTome

10 ай бұрын

@@brianmurray8943 I’ve Had mine for the last 12 years. 🤫don’t Tell anyone 😂

@MikeMassey-fi5of

4 ай бұрын

Bont does that

What a coincidence, I've been talking about variability on feet shape with a friend for a couple of weeks, thanks for the in-depth explanation! PS: I mistook your "10 thousand feets database" in your head for length instead of quantity #LOL , maybe I'm listening too much imperial content #metricSuperioroty

Giro do most of their shoes in a wide variant, and they’re pretty great (from someone with a pretty wide foot)

@buster.keaton

Жыл бұрын

Giro wide shoes are typically labelled as "HV" which means "high volume". A high-volume shoe may cause heal slipping and fit issues if one has a wide forefoot, but the rest of the foot isn't overly large.

Any brands you recommend for more flexible shoes? This is the first I'm hearing about flexible / low volume feet benefiting from more flexible shoes. Thank you so much for the content on this channel!

@frankchan5547

Жыл бұрын

Sidi has said it has deliberately not made their carbon soles as stiff as they possibly can, while Specialized says the stiffer, the better. For a more flexible shoe, you need a synthetic sole or a combination of synthetic and carbon. Sidi are very narrow but do make them. Going from synthetic to carbon was like a spring mattress to concrete, but my feet have no issues with carbon. Other brands will have non carbon soles

I have high arches, very wide feet and narrow heels - only if there was a shoe WIDE enough (Lake's extra wide wont do)

I follow you and Neil religiously on KZread here in Canada. What a coincidence, I just ordered a pair of Lake CX241’s several hours ago after doing weeks of research. I have neuromas in both feet and just had nerve decompression surgery in one 4 weeks ago. Needed a comfortable wider shoe and Lake was highly recommended. Then, to see this video about this very topic was awesome and reassuring due to the cost of lake shoes 🤣

@redmatthews92

Жыл бұрын

I have a pair of these and they are fantastic. Enjoy your purchase!

@mohamadjamil3164

Жыл бұрын

Hello. Had the lake shoes for two years and was not happy with it at all. The same one that appears in the video. Ask other cycling friends before you receive it

Hi Neill and Cam and thanks for the video! What do you think about heel retention? Is it important to have the heel tightly secured in place or is heel lift really a problem? All the Lake wide model shoes I've tried have the heel too loose for my foot. I've also read many comments about this and it seems to concern even heat-moldable models.

@roadcyclingacademy6476

Жыл бұрын

Had to keep the video under 15 minutes, so I left this mostly out, but yes you are right - narrow heels can be a problem for heel retention for some people. The heat-mouldable models won't improve the situation much if the heel cup is too loose from the factory - best to look at other brands if they feel too loose here. The Shimano wide fit range tends to have a narrower heel cup than the Lakes - have a look at them! - N

Is there a way to measure our feet at home to decide whether we need the wide or standard version of a shoe? I'm interested in the Shimano RC7. My local bike shop does not have sophisticated tools so a measurement at home combined with some sort of table for shimano shoes would help.

It seems that the shoe/foot shape is not usually mentioned. I have wide forefeet, so I tried Lake, Bont, Shimano because they are all good in terms of width and quality; however, I noticed that my big toe would hurt even if the size was perfect across these brands because my foot is straight - this can cause people to think the shoe is not long/wide enough! Interestingly, Fizik make a few wide shoes and are not so curved and they fit me perfectly. I also require a slightly forward cleat position. Some cheaper lake models have the cleat holes so far back, it automatically puts my cleat 20mm behind the first metatarsal even though I usually run the cleats 12-13.5mm back (size 42 foot).

@buster.keaton

Жыл бұрын

Which Fizik shoes did you try? Like you, my foot is "straight" with a wide toe box. I didn't have much luck with Fizik being very wide, but perhaps I tried the wrong shoe.

@ShadowzKiller

Жыл бұрын

@@buster.keaton I tried the TEMPO DECOS CARBON WIDE and TEMPO OVERCURVE R4 WIDE. They are actually slightly different shapes, so it might worth trying them out; however, TEMPO OVERCURVE R4 WIDE has much more limited cleat adjustment. It is shame that you have to pay more something so important. Cycling is ridiculously expensive for no justifiable reason /rant.

@buster.keaton

Жыл бұрын

@@ShadowzKiller Thanks! I see on their website that Fizik's version of "wide" is actually "higher volume". What that typically means is the last (sole) isn't wider, they just put more material in the upper portion of the shoe.

@ShadowzKiller

Жыл бұрын

@@buster.keaton That is the confusion. Their wide shoes are wider than their normal shoes. Typically speaking, wider shoes typically have, at the same time, more volume, which may seem logical because you have bigger feet; however, my feet simply need a wider toe box and not all the volume, which is challeng. Fizik seem just right, but it also depends what kind of insoles you use. Heel shims can also fill in the tiny room if needed.

Another really useful video. Would be really interested to know Neill’s thoughts on the importance of foot stability on performance, position and injury risk, and wonder how shoe choice, arch support and foot weakness impact these. In relation to this, I know Neill is a fan of G8 footbeds, but how does one know when custom footbeds or orthotics are required for cycling? I’ve tried G8s, and even with level 5 inserts, and additional bar tape under the arch, my feet still pro are heavily and I get tibial torsion and knee pain. Any insights on the effect of pronation would be useful, as so many bike fitters simply want to install cleat or heel wedges to correct it. Thanks in advance.

@roadcyclingacademy6476

Жыл бұрын

Ooh, tough series of questions there with thousands of potentially invididual answers. Multiple videos to come on that sort of stuff! - Neill

@ggez-yc1ui

Ай бұрын

@@roadcyclingacademy6476 42.5 size (27cm?) + 112mm width = EE width. This is not slighlty above average (D width). You also need to measure perpendicularly, not diagonally. 2:00

Hello. I had the lake in kangaroo leather, was the worst investment I ever made in my cycling history. The leather does not disseminate heat and closure system does not hold the feet causing a slip/push forward. Besides, as those are a bit wider, the tow box is narrow and short. sidi were excellent and their sole has this sweet spot between flex and stiffness. I disagree or my experience with the lake one was not good at all and I have normal size and shape foot

Not sure if it's just me, but every new generation of Shimano shoe seems to be getting narrower. No idea why, even effects the Wide versions. I had Lake many years ago, loved them. Next shoes will probably be Lake.

My next cycling shoe is NOT going to be SPD shoe, because all of them are too narrow and uncomfortable...

@buster.keaton

Жыл бұрын

I use Lake MX237s (now 238s) which are the SPD version of the CX237s featured in this video. They come various widths.

I know this completely off the topic of the video but I could really really reallllly use your help. A 17 year old road cyclist this side. A couple of weeks ago, I got some knee issues, long story cut short, I got a bike fit, which seemed from a decent store when read online. But, the guy there didn't seem to use the dynamic angle measurements and all. He kind of eyeballed everything. Moreover, he moved my saddle almost all the way forward and dropped the saddle a little lower. When asked about it, he said it'll make me more aero and I need not worry about knee pain. I went out on a ride today, my knee is absolutely dead. And I'd say it's even worse than what it was before :(((( I flew about 1000 kms to get this bike fit done in another city, so no way of "just go back to the guy". Can you please help me? Do you have an online fit service? I could share all the details and measurements if you're interested

Question for Neil if he has time. I'm running mountain bike shoes on my road bike. Originally I purchased a pair of Shimanos in a 45, 44 was way too tight. I ended up with the very problem he talks about here which is the shoe was too big and I couldn't get my cleat position in the position he suggested in one of the cleat vids. So I found out Specialized has half sizes and runs smaller. Perfect fit in 43.5 which means I can get my cleat position back more than I probably need now. I opted for 17 mil behind the joint based on his suggestions in that vid. The question I have is this is about 10 mil behind the other shoes cleat position. How much do I drop the saddle to compensate? Is it 1:1 and do I do any fore/aft adjustment when I do this?

@roadcyclingacademy6476

Жыл бұрын

Hi, the seat will need to come down and forward, how much is highly variable unfortunately. I would guess it will need to come down 2-5mm and forward 2-3mm but again, it's highly variable between rider's pedalling techniques so not easy to generalise accurately :-( - Neill

@starlitshadows

Жыл бұрын

@@roadcyclingacademy6476 No worries there. I just wasn't sure if it was solely saddle height alone or involved fore/aft. This answers my question and gives me a good ballpark to work with. Appreciate the response and all you've done on here, it's been super helpful. Thanks Neil!

These shoes work with the Peloton bike+ (April 2022), kzread.infoUgkxGPkov2mNjgZfG33r6Bwvies8jKE4AKZB and are of good enough quality. I have completed 10 rides so far and there are no issues. The first time trying to fit them on the Peloton bike took 10 minutes (even with the help of an experienced cyclist friend who wears the same type of cleats). It took a couple of rides to break in. After the first two rides there were no issues at all.

Neil's comments in this video are contrary to what he says in the recent Lore shoes review video. Why the difference?

For me, there is no bike shoe made, that fits my foot. Even if you can find an American size 9 in a 5E width, the toe box is horribly cramped. I resort to barefoot shoes on flat MTB pedals. If you need to rely on the aerodynamics of a shoe for extra speed, then you would be better off investing in tuning your diet first.

RCA: Your Next Cycling Shoe (all you need to know) ---> Made in China . . . at least, for now!😉

@roadcyclingacademy6476

Жыл бұрын

Your next anything….’made in China’ probably!

@savagepro9060

Жыл бұрын

@@roadcyclingacademy6476 actually 'Made in China' is slowly dying

@derekmattice3077

Жыл бұрын

Sidi, Vittoria, DMT and Northwave all offer shoes made in Italy.

@frankchan5547

Жыл бұрын

​@@derekmattice3077 as far as I know carbon Sidis are made in Italy. Lots of youtube videos show the factory

@derekmattice3077

Жыл бұрын

@@frankchan5547 I said high-end Sidi was made in Italy (along with high-end models from Northwave and Vittoria). One correction to my list is DMT. Their knit shoes are made in Bulgaria.

Bont's tongue is so badly designed and badly made. So many pressure points.

Sidi Mega is a joke for the sake of wide. A regrettable purchase for anyone with a wide toe box.

like my Lakes... Like my BONTS...