It would be interesting to see some testing on how effective filters are at reducing particle (hepa, activated carbon, etc)

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yes - I agree

@Nevax_

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D Nevermoore did quite good investigation about that topic, obviously it can be biased since they sell carbron.

@scottwillis5434

3 күн бұрын

At the same time, they would be willing to pony up for a study because that's their business, and hopefully motivated to avoid future major lawsuits if it was found they had published bogus data.

It would also be interesting to see how the print temperature affects the results.

Had a small dog pass away when I first got into fdm printing in pla and I always wondered if I killed her with the fumes the vet said she died of neurological reasons and I heard something about these things emitting neurotoxins.. I loose sleep over it at times and miss her every day. She had health issues and was an older dog at 12 years old so hopefully it was just her time to go. RIP Maya my beautiful doggie daughter.

@williamk52

11 ай бұрын

If it was just pla , petg and tpu you are good.

@TheEnd

11 ай бұрын

@@williamk52 thank you for reassuring me and yes those were the materials I printed in since they were considered to be safe at that time

@TheEnd

11 ай бұрын

@@gotmilkbutt never got into printing abs due to not having an enclosure around my printer and it being located in my drafty basement

@cardinalcraze8497

11 ай бұрын

12 is a considerable age for a dog. Props that your dog had a long and healthy life ❤

@simon_ghost_rilley252

11 ай бұрын

what was the breed of the dog

I created a print room using a grow tent with air scrubbers, an oversized air purifier and an outside exhaust ....probably overkill...but it was fun. :D

@MrFranklitalien

11 ай бұрын

thats the spirit!

@jabberwocktechnologies

11 ай бұрын

Hooray for indoor air quality!

Regarding the filament loading ppm increase, printers usually push a lot more filament loading than printing, but also I think that the position of your printing bed in relation to the position of the sensor was screwing with your measurements. The bed while printing is much closer to the nozzle shielding the sensor from the fumes, and when loading you had the bed way lower. Also since hot fumes rise, I think that the best placement for the sensor was on top of the printer, or somewhere else in the room for measuring the room particulate and VOCs increase in the room

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yeah noted - where it was filmed was broadly convenient, rather than functional, compared to the 3 weeks of measuring in various positions.

You should definitely look into filters, both HEPA for fine particles and carbon filters for VOCs. The carbon filters work well for a lot of things, even solder fumes. I have an enclosure I built with both types of filters and a fan and when printing ABS with the fan in you can’t smell anything outside of the enclosure, even at the outlet. Before I had the enclosure when printing with nylon the inside of my nose would feel like it was burning despite not smelling anything, just putting a fan and carbon filter near it stopped that completely, so they definitely do work. Edit: another good idea with an enclosure is having a fan circulating the air inside it through a filter. That way you don't lose warm air and you stop VOCs or particles from building up.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yep plan to check carbon filters in next vid. HEPA will be of limited use against UFPs (not totally useless but not up to scratch). I've not printed much nylon personally so I cant imagine the smell, if there's no smell that's somehow even worse!

@conorstewart2214

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D HEPA will be of use against the pm2.5 particles you measured though and filters can work for particles smaller than they are rated for too, they just aren't as effective. There was no smell when I used the nylon, just a burning in the inside of my nose. It was Overture easy nylon so I don't know if it was due to additives to make it easier to print or something but just a PC fan and a carbon filter very close was enough to eliminate it.

@jabberwocktechnologies

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D HEPA actually handles UFPs quite well. It's not quite as good at some medium particle sizes, but still generally effective. The easy intuition of "smaller particles -> harder to capture" actually isn't true. There have been several studies on this. Sentry Air's write up "A discussion on 3D printers, UFP emission, and HEPA filtration" is a pretty great starting point. The paper "Experimental evaluation of personal protection devices against graphite nanoaerosols: fibrous filter media, masks, protective clothing, and gloves" is also pretty great. My layman's understanding from looking through a few papers and write-ups on this is that modern electrostatic filtration material (used in stuff like n95 masks and HEPA filters) actually has an easier time capturing extremely small or large particles. There's a range of moderately sized particles where they don't do quite as well, but they still work fine. For example, the paper "How efficiently can HEPA purifiers remove priority fine and ultrafine particles from indoor air?" has some data/discussion on this. They show that the effective clean air delivery rate does drop somewhat for particles in the 200-300nm range, but the filter does still work for particles in that range. What HEPA doesn't do is address VOCs, which is why so many people use them together with activated carbon.

@theglowcloud2215

11 ай бұрын

@@jabberwocktechnologies I'm glad you mentioned this. I recall Brownian motion being the reason UFPs are easier to capture than moderately-sized particles?

@jabberwocktechnologies

11 ай бұрын

@@theglowcloud2215 yes, the idea is that in that range of particle sizes Brownian motion is the dominant effect on how the particles move around. This makes them more likely to come into contact with the filtration media. Van der Waals forces make it so that once they hit the filtration media they stay there. If I remember right the paper "Experimental Evaluation of Personal Protection Devices..." that I mentioned in the last comment has a nice description of what's going on too.

Can’t wait for part 2! This Is something thats always on the back of my mind when printing. I recently got a Bambu x1 carbon & that printer has a built in chamber fan with a carbon filter, regardless I added 3 anycubic air purifier inside the enclosure & then added to the back of the chamber fan a hose attachment with a 4inch hvac hose to a enclosure with a room purifier with Hepa filter & carbon sucking in air from the x1 chamber fan vent. I know it might seem like over kill but there just isn’t enough information for me to be feel safe in my room while printing. If I can provide any data I would love to try to contribute to your research being that it’s something that isn’t really talked about too much. Great videos by the way.

Amazing, thank you for this PSA! As I might be building a small printfarm, it’s definitely of interest to me. Can’t wait for your TPU findings!

@francistaylor1822

11 ай бұрын

Its good that he has covered this, but its not that scientific per se - more so informative. Personally I have mine in my shed. I do think things like carbon filters do help though. (Well I know they do as I have them and also a meter that can display VOC I use occasionally to check the levels). My only concession is a V 0.1 in the house with a nevermore that I use occasionally in a well ventilated room that people dont generally go in for quick and small prints with PLA only)

@paulhamacher773

11 ай бұрын

what is PSA?

@philippeholthuizen

11 ай бұрын

@@paulhamacher773 a Public Service Announcement

@philippeholthuizen

11 ай бұрын

@@paulhamacher773 a Public Service Announcement

@scottwillis5434

3 күн бұрын

Public Service Announcement

Great video. I had similar concerns when i got into 3d printing so I put my printers in enclosures with carbon filters and in addition installed an air exchange unit in the room to ensure a supply of fresh air to the room.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Ultimately it can't hurt to do that

first video I've seen from you, subbed only a minute in. It's an area that needs more talking about in 3D printing

PLZ make more videos, you're one of the good ones. p.s. Thanks for all the prior info, helped me a ton while getting into this whole enviroment

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

appreciate the comments! I am trying to speed up the process, I got some good stuff in the works, it's really annoying how much time I spend editing vs doing anything else.

Ive worked with chemicals all my life. I was doing carbon fiber work with resin 16+ years ago (good lord im old) and from all the exposure i became very sensitive to smells and tastes. I can tell you for certain you dont want to print with the printer in the same room as you unless you have a enclosure and its properly vented to the outdoors with a filter so youre not blowing that crap into the atmosphere. Please take care of yourselves. This is a manufacturing process, thats what youre doing and it needs to be treated as such. Youre heating a chemical composition to reform it. Its going to off gas and youre blowing that around. Just be safe be smart do your research and understand what youre working with and how that material would be handled in a professional industry setting not just a hobbyist setting.

Ah yes, staring at raw data and listening to "human" jazz music, my favorite activity as a homosapien.

So glad to see someone else thinking about this! I'd love more info on indoor air quality and 3d printing! The best setup I've figured out thus far is to run the printer in a relatively low-traffic room together with a HEPA filter. I've been considering trying to rig some kind of corsi-rosenthal box inspired enclosure, but it's probably overkill. From the reading I've done, HEPA filters still do a great job of picking up UFPM. For really small stuff (

@jabberwocktechnologies

11 ай бұрын

Source on the comments about UFP emissions and VOC emissions for various filament types: "Emissions of Ultrafine Particles and Volatile Organic Compounds from Commercially Available Desktop Three-Dimensional Printers with Multiple Filaments" by Azimi et al.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Excellent, I'll check that out

I'm watching this video for the second time, and still didn't see the part 2 of this. I mean the video have some really good insight, I really want to see part of this this, please

@LostInTech3D

Ай бұрын

Sometimes takes me a while to make a part 2 😁

Nice comparisons! I personally miss PC in the comparison as this is a filament that is also widely used yet not well documented, and for the Bambu lab X1C I would suggest looking into the Bento Box that removes VOC's from the air inside the enclosure. This should help mitigate a lot of the VOC's escaping into the air. The Bento Box contains both a HEPA filter and activated carbon.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yeah I dropped the ball, I have a whole reel of PC

@dirediredude

11 ай бұрын

HTPLA or PLA+ as well as it's really very common now a days and includes many other compounds besides pure PLA.

I have k1s printing abs enclosed up with a 4” ducted fan similar to what you’re showing exhausting the air out a duct in a window, can’t tell i’m printing at all sitting right next to them. Also have built bentoboxes inside the enclosures

Oh man, thanks soooo much for this. And on top of making a brilliant video about a subject that is soooo important, you ALSO corrected you pronunciation of Ikea! BRILLIANT!!! A tip of the cap to you. And a top in the hat for a beer, coffee, or cup'o'tea :)

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Haha which IKEA was correct the second? Glad it was of some use, hopefully we'll narrow down ep 2 to get more specific information

Opening a window won't help you to get rid of fumes. If you ever had window open, you'd notice that house ventilation usually works by sucking air in through windows. So unless you have some abnormal airflow in your house, you'll only spread particles around. Sure, eventually air will go to air duct or whenever outlet is, but those particles are heavier than air and tend to stay at lower layers and ventilation outlet at the upper side of the house.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yeah you can't really know where the air currents are taking the particles when you just open a window, that was something I never really realised. It would be fascinating to use some coloured smoke or something, and watch it...although I can't say I'd enjoy the mess

@shadyb

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D No need to use colored smoke even, you can buy cheap fog machine or even rent BIG fog machine

@blaircox1589

11 ай бұрын

When I bought our Ender 3 v2, I purchased a fabric enclosure and modified it so a bathroom fan exhausted air from the bottom and fresh air (through a filter to diffuse incoming cooler air) from the top. I built a box for the bathroom fan to connect to that pushes air through a HEPA filter, then carbon filters. It's sealed for leaks and the filters easily replaced. We ran the printer once without this and couldn't fathom how people can tolerate the stench. If people cannot smell what these are putting off, they are already compromised health wise from cigarette smoke, air fresheners and perfumes products. It's seriously intense.

@nickyyyyy

11 ай бұрын

If particulates could get stuck in the ventilation shaft they would not be able to get in there to start with. Or by diffusion ?

Thank you for the video, great study!

It should be noted that consumer air quality monitoring devices are inaccurate and require some time for them to "settle". Some device manufacturers warn about this, others might not. Additionally, most conditioners don't ventilate the room. They might cool or heat the air, maybe remove the moisture but most of the time, at least the split type of conditioners, don't ventilate. Hope everyone stays safe and gets plenty of fresh, clean air.

I'm new to fdm 3d printing and am still on my first spule of anycubic highspeed pla (I've done sla printing before). Without measuring: Both methodes significandly worsen air quality. I've put my printers in a seperate room and run an exhaust to outside. Without the fan the air quality drops massivly even during 30 min prints. Tank you for putting in the effort to measure this. I'd also think that the values differ not only between plastic types, but also between manufacturers due to additives.

@LostInTech3D

7 ай бұрын

it absolutely does, there are some real stinkers out there, which is why measuring ultimately only gets you so far, and evacuating air is the right answer.

Great videos as always!

The wake up call i needed... thanks dude!

I've found that PM meters can be heavily influenced by humidity in the air. What's the baseline value before engaging the printer?

I'm not sure how the Pimoroni Enviro+ HAT for the Raspberry Pi compares to the IKEA monitor in terms of accuracy, but I built one with a PMS5003 sensor to monitor my 3D printer's output and piped the data to Grafana. I'm still testing how much crap the printer spews out with a Honeywell HEPA filter nearby and without. There hasn't been nearly enough research done on this subject.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yep the PMS5003 is a decent sensor, it's the one I used a year ago. It doesn't go down to UFPs though, so it won't really register much with PLA, at least I found that.

I work in a laboratory where, among many other things, we also measure VOC and specify the most common ones. I've always wanted to take a measurement for myself, I'll see if I can do that in the next few weeks. Will report if anyone is interested. However, for these health reasons, I only print with PLA.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

That's would be awesome

Really cool video! Please do an air-quality-sensor hacking video! This would be super fun!

Just some heads up, that meter from IKEA has been measured as pretty inaccurate in the testing I have seen. I would share links but I don’t want to get flagged. It uses a LED and not Laser for particle measurements. Not only this, but their measurements for particle size are much wider than normal standards. The main article you will find when looking up reviews of this meter will give more detail. I only say this because I have been doing a ton of research on this for fumes and VOC’s. The companies I have talked to have said that most consumer meters are useless for tVOC as they measure too wide of a scale and can be fooled by anything from rubbing alcohol to even people wearing cologne. You need one testing for specific types to be accurate.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

like most things, the more money you throw at it, the better the results, before you know it you're making a lab

Thank you! I've been wondering about this for a while now. Can we come up with a way to load the filament differently, so it doesn't smoke as much?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

honestly...I am not entirely sure why it smokes. I suppose...maybe loading it at a lower temp, but yeah, its a phenomenon I can't currently explain

And this is why i have an oversized hepa/carbon filter combo air-purifier going all the time im printing, next to my printer, and a bit after that as well.

Super interesting... Can you try the same test in resin printers?? I use air filters with them, but I wonder if they are still enough.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I plan to do some tests with resin but also check out makertales, he just made a video on it

I would look into the bsec library from borschfor the bme680... it categorizes and quantifies the vocs more and its made for Arduino so you would get more detailed calibrated data. Thanks for the video as well and I would love to see a video on the health effects of various vocs from printing on health with studies linked as well as redoing the test with and without the filters with the bsec integration. Another test idea is to test print temp vs voc increase above ambient, keep up the good work!

@pieterpretorius1014

7 ай бұрын

i would also add a fixed Fourier transform on top of the values from the library to stabilize everything

i got a printer in my room and a fan i print PLA is that bad ?

Air filtration is key. But you can build a very effective air filter using a decent box fan and 4-5 HVAC filters with activated carbon for ~$100 or so. Even a pretty cheap fan can get up to 20ACH, which is more than enough to remove most pollutants.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I wish they sold colour changing carbon that would show you when it's expired

I’ve never had any form of smoke come out when loading filament and I have tried many types, I’ve never heard of it happening either.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

you maybe have, it's mostly visible to me as I have studio lighting on - try shining a strong beam and you probably will see it.

Nano! Nice to see my favourite editor.

Any chance you would make more tests with adding a cheap activated charcoal filter with a fan to see how useful they are.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I don't know about cheap because it oxidizes parts, but I'll be going over all this in next ep, for sure

my printer is in the garage and has a hepa filter. and its near an open window. But I can still smell styrene when printing ABS

Ikeya! So that a big plus into "IDEX, AMS and other automatic multifilament solutions" vs manual filament changes then. My current setup still requires removing the purge amount by hand and pressing a button to continue the print.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Could just hold your breath 😁

@TechieSewing

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D *gasps* _slides down slowly_

I run a hepa filter in my printer room. Room Is roughly 150 sq feet. The filter I use is made for 750 sq feet. Never have a had health issues from printing. I have copd and I’m not bothered at all.

I feel like you should try to get a better voc sensor (or hack the ikea one if it is decent?). The topic is really interesting but without reliable data I think taking any conclusions will be difficult.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I don't think they get more reliable than the BME680 - the issue is calibration.

Great video. I love homemade science. I'd like to scale up my home based print farm. The plan is to enclose the area under the deck to make a separate room where the 3D printers would live, with the CNC laser if I ever finish building it. I could harvest the parts and restart the printers a couple of times per day and ventilate to the outside before entering. FDM 3D printer micro particulates are a serious concern but I'm even more concerned about VOCs from resin printers. Klipper would be a huge help in remotely managing a small print farm on the opposite side of the house.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I'm doing resin in a bit and I'm planning to check out the levels there, hopefully

@Liberty4Ever

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D - Testing resin printing, you'll probably give your VOC meter cancer.

Thanks so much, very interesting testing you've started to do! Why not test what is detectable if you directly exhaust from the enclosure? I actually just bought a tent enclosure for my ender 3, an inline exhaust fan, and located the printer near my window. I'm planning to connect the enclosure to the fan and the fan to an AC window exhaust insert. My hope is that's the best anyone could do at home in a small place. Thanks!

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yeah if you exhaust from the actual enclosure then you're really gonna have no issues at all, as you're creating a negative pressure in there.

Living with someone who is sensitive to smells and particles, we have become more aware of this. I think there are long term health issues and 3d printing at home is still new enough, that we just don't know. Even if you don't smell anything, you are still breathing plastic particles. Putting things in your lungs just seems like a bad idea. To make everything safe, all of my printers are fully enclosed in the garage and have created negative pressure air flow with an exhaust fan attached a dust hose venting outside the door and I still think I can do better.

you can use a bubbler to filter the air also

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

interesting idea

Great work on this one lost! No tomatoes this time lol. 👍

MOx gas (VOC) sensors (like those found in any consumer-level air quality monitor) currently suffer from major drawbacks that make them unreliable for any purpose other than a very broad estimation. - cross-sensitivity/selectivity (not being able to discern between gases because only resistivity of the sensing plate is being measured) - low stability across repeated readings in the same environment - difficulty of effective calibration, which is repeatedly necessary over time and any time a change in environment occurs - very high sensitivity to humidity (and, by extension, temperature) which must be compensated for with another connected and accurate sensor - despite issues with cross-sensitivity/selectivity, they are ironically very poor at detecting some compounds which ARE harmful, depending on the pore size and chemistry of the sensing plate As you said, they rely on changes in conductivity in order to estimate an increase or decrease in VOC concentration in the air. Because of that, any air monitor reporting a concentration for VOC in ppm or ug/m^3 is already highly suspect. More reputable sensor manufacturers like Sensirion have already started switching to VOC Indices that try to make it clearer that the readings are only comparisons to a recent baseline (usually ~1 day to 2 weeks). Obviously making cheap, reliable gas sensors available to everyone will hugely benefit humanity. Consequently, there's a ton of research and investment into making these sensors more accurate and discerning. I really hope that we continue to see fast improvement in these sensors. However, right now anyone using them to make a point about gas quantities and toxicity of materials really needs to provide a HUGE asterisk. PS - as mentioned by a couple other commenters, AI analysis of MOx gas sensor readings is pretty promising right now. Bosch even provides a library for calibrating and training models based on known gases with their BME688 sensor.

Are you running the fans in the back during the printing? If so, could those be pulling the fumes/microplastics out the back instead of out the front where your monitor is?

@LostInTech3D

4 ай бұрын

Rear and side were off 👍

More than the smell, i notice discomfort in my throat when I'm printing ABS and and the nevermore's carbon is too old. Eventually i get a headache. Happens less with ASA. I have some SGP30 sensors from pimoroni waiting in a box for me to do similar VOC measurements, but life happens and time is scarce. I'm also worried about the effects of BPA coming out of polycarbonate, people rarely mention that.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yep those are documented effects of styrene exposure.

I'd love to see you try these with the Nevermore v6 carbon filter

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Next video 😁

im curious on how effective a setup like the Bambu lab X1 is in reducing the VoC and particles with the carbon filter. Downside using the stock settings is that while using the smelly stuff the fan is usually off because usually the toxic stuff tends to warp

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

hmm...true

Thanks!

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Thank you! :)

Do voc's just disappear.. e.g. if left in a room printing with windows closed would they still be there 12hrs later ? Also are there filters you can buy, e.g. if it's not convenient to ventilate to outside, could you have an enclosed filter with a certain type of filter ? Thank you

@LostInTech3D

6 ай бұрын

they don't "disappear" but there are various ways they stop being in the air, so effectively, yes, in terms of breathing them. This is one way enclosures work - by making the particles hang around long enough to stick to the inside or react with something else to _do random chemistry stuff_. It's tremendously difficult to filter out a vast range of unknown VOCs, not impossible, but difficult. Carbon is the current best generalist at this, although the nevermore guy says he's working on something else that sounded interesting.

I love that smell! But I also love how it smells in the copy room in the office.

The reason for the difference inside and out is the particles condense

Is the smoke during manual extrude just due to the part cooling fan not being on? So the nozzle and etruded plastic isn't getting any cooling that it might normally.

@paulhamacher773

11 ай бұрын

the nozzle is temperature controlled but the filament might not cool down as quickly as when it's printed onto the last (cool) layer, thus having way more time to emit particles into the air. Also half of the surface area of the squished extruded plastic line is not even exposed to the air that way

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I wonder if the nozzle is hotter than the place the thermistor is at. I don't know, it's a whole rabbit hole right there to try to figure it out

@TechieSewing

11 ай бұрын

And then most of us have parts fan off during the first layers, and that's when printer owners watch the lines go down with their noses very close to the action.

A lone data point for what it's worth... Printing generic cheap PLA reduces the life of my disposable contact lenses by 30%, if I am near the printer while it's printing. An aside: This video has many interlace artifacts, which seems like a leftover from a previous century. Does not every camera produce progressive frames these days?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

that's actually a little worrying! Yeah I wish I'd noticed the interlacing (no idea?!), it's too late to reupload now. I'll watch for it in future. It's not the camera!

12:56 Aircons do NOT remove air from the room... it circulates air only

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I am! 👀

What makes the most PM2.5? Soldering! Use extraction if soldering a lot, or a fan to dilute it.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

absolutely, although solder is usually not long exposure, but the hint is that it literally makes your eyes sting lol

Did you ever connect this to grab the data from it? The Ikea sensors are apparently supported in home assistant now including the voc index.

@LostInTech3D

7 ай бұрын

yeah I was peripherally aware of this but their hub ain't cheap and I already have a hue hub so I'm mulling it over.

@JohnNeville617

7 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D You don't actually need a DIRIGERA Hub. Any zigbee usb stick connected to the Home Assistant server will do. I am using a Sonoff Zigbee 3.0 usb stick which I got for about $15 and I just picked up the Ikea Vindstyrka and paired it. Out of the box it doesn't support the VOC reading but there is a github PR by just-oblivious to add the VOC index to Home Assistant and the zha-device-handlers repos. With a few quick modifications I got it up and running with the VOC Index report.

Great video as always mate. Un-dis-anti-ir-regardless of the fumes I just love printing in ABS. My way of harm reduction in having my printer in an air tight (or as good as I can get it) enclosure and leaving the printer closed for a while after the print. My thinking (probably flawed) is the nasty particles will settle and stick to the inner surfaces. Keep up the good work Sir 👍🇦🇺😊

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I thought that logic was flawed too, but the data seems to support _some_ version of your argument. I'm very interested to figure out where the fumes go, because yeah, initial observations look like enclosures help a lot.

09:34 killed me🤣Ivan Miranda sure does need some voc solution

I have pet birds and birds are notoriously sensitive to VOCs. I never print ABS or ASA (I've heard enough people complain what a pain those can be anyways) but otherwise it's only stuff like PLA or PET-derivative (PET/PETE bottle filament/ PETG) or anything that doesn't give off a ton of fumes. That, and I never let the birds into the same room as the printer when it's running. The printer is upstairs behind a closed door and the birds remain downstairs.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Birds are also super sensitive to ptfe so I'd recommend making sure all your printers have all metal hotends

@hydroturd

11 ай бұрын

bird up

@lajoyalobos2009

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D First upgrade I did

I've never seen smoke while loading or manually extruding on a 3d printer even with fans off.. what exactly is the temperature their load macro sets it to..? You can slowly load PLA at like 180 and ABS at 190, no real point in going higher until the print is actually Running IMO. Printer weirdness aside, good information all the same!

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yeah it's almost always around 220+

in the clip where the K1 is printing at 2:23, is the spring steel sheet lifting in the corners ?!

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yeah it was, this is a thermal contraction thing with straight sided boxes, I'm surprised the bed didn't let go first, lots of forces there. The solution is a brim, but I forgot to add one.

will the video about the carbon filters and stuff still come?

@LostInTech3D

6 ай бұрын

I think so - I'm waiting to hear more about the new nevermore filters.

@Goldjohney2

6 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3Dhey just wanted to tell you that I really loved this video and I would love to see more content like this. This is a super important area of 3D printing that isn’t talked about enough in the community. I just subscribed to your channel and will happily await the sequel vid :)

Wow!!! Thank you so much for this video. It certainly enlightened me. Unbelievable stunning revelations! .. It made me wonder, if all this could have something to do with a mysterious skin allergy I am recently experiencing, could this be possible? Anyone else with a similar problem? There are sometimes obvious things we all know about, but never think they can affect us... I started 3D printing about 6 months ago. Since I am a novice, I only work with PLA filament. I really enjoy it! However, more recently I started developing a strange skin rash and irritation, and some swelling, on my face, my hands an a bit on my forearms. Whilst I am still trying to determine the root cause of my problem (medics included), I never imagined it could be related to this! Now, after seeing your video, I realize this may sadly be the possible reason behind it, or one of the reasons anyway, even with PLA. This definitely needs further and deeper investigation. Meanwhile, since this seems to affect only the skin areas exposed, I am going to start covering completely, using a face shield, long sleeves and gloves to protect me for my upcoming prints and see how it goes. I would greatly appreciate your views. Best wishes.

@LostInTech3D

9 ай бұрын

Not likely, but it can't hurt to try exclusion to narrow it down - I would advise ventilating above all else though.

@BlancheNeigeLD

9 ай бұрын

​@@LostInTech3D Noted. Thank you again for bringing those health hazards to light. Will advise any progress. Cheers.😊

Carbon filter is the answer, it removed ABS smell completely for me. Make sure to get proper carbon, the easiest choice is nevermore packages. Would be great to see the tests!

@cpace123

11 ай бұрын

Carbon does work, and is used by car painters, and others. But what many don't seem to understand is that carbon has a shelf life of 6months, and once exposed to air carbon actually is only effective from 2-6 hours, and then needs to be replaced. Yes I said 2 to 6 hours. Car painters go through loads of the stuff to stay safe. So I wish some one would do tests in the 3d printer world. I used to work closely with car painters. Carbon is not the magic filter many seem to think it is. I know some only replace their carbon after months of use.

@AlexServirog

11 ай бұрын

@@gotmilkbutt on the larger printer(v2.4) I built a filter with large amount of carbon, it delt well with odor for half a year or so. On the small one I replace it once a month.

given the point on cooking, it should also be noted that the particular compounds in the particulate matters. Assessing an acceptable level of risk requires further research. The definition of pollution in this case more or less being anything airborne. Hepa filter units setup near printers are likely a good precaution.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Agreed, although gas cooking has other nasty surprises that HEPA won't catch.

I have an ender3 v2, I got it about a year a go and my place is very small, I had to put it, in my bedroom on my work desk next to my bed, so you would imagine that sometimes I sleep right next to my printer while printing large prints, I mainly print in pla, so I thought its not that big of a deal, but I also do some pla welding without wearing a respirator even though that I have one, and also there is a decently sized window in my room but I never actually use it, Now I realize how stupid I was, Now I will make an enclosure for it, and I will start using my window more, and No more pla welding without a respirator, I would actually love to see a video about how bad pla welding can be for your health from you.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I think small things can probably make a big diff. I don't really do any welding so I can't help there, but I don't see many people wearing respirators

I REALLY REALLY want to see how bad it is to use a food dehydrator for drying filament and making jerky with the same machine but with separate racks & enclosure. It's easy to say it's bad, but I want to see numbers.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

it's probably a bad sign if the jerky tastes of filament haha

@3sotErik

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D I haven't tried the filament yet, but I have sheet metal & welded wire fence to make a rack & enclosure for filament but don't want to do it if it's not safe. But realistically, how bad is it? I mean the dehydrator itself is made of plastic. How does it compare to having an actual filament dryer in the same room as a plate of food or heck, using plastic cookware?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Well, if it's emitting anything...if...then you are looking at inverse (square?) for distance, so the fall off for how much exposure will be pretty large with distance. So being very close, would be not ideal.

Don't know about K1, but X1C when loads PLA heats nozzle to 250C versus normal 220C when printing. Not sure why, maybe for lower viscosity and better clen up? It could be 250 is a bit too much for PLA and these fumes are really something unhealthy

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yeah noticed that on the bambu. it stinks too.

how good is a carbon filtration really? im looking into starting to print abs with my p1p, but if the stink is to bad i wont be able to use it, can a carbon filter fan solution fix that maybe?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

looking into that in pt 2

@NM-wd7kx

11 ай бұрын

Carbon will remove reactive chemicals from air/water, the problem is mostly time & volume. This is something you'll see with water filtration, basically nothing in a reasonable size will actually remove dangerous substances, but volatile compounds (which are the ones we can smell & taste, for the most part) obviously react with the carbon & are neutralised much more effectively.

@NM-wd7kx

11 ай бұрын

You 'might' have some luck with an extractor system based on bubbling the fumes through water. An ion purifier might also be effective, but I can't find a straight answer anywhere. Ozone would definitely work, but then you have to deal with ozone. HEPA filters & venting to atmosphere seems like the safest option from actual reading

What is up with the weird deinterlacing artifacts? Is it just on playback, or was the recorded video actually interlaced?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

yeah davinci resolve hates me, I am not sure what happened there.

@AnnaVannieuwenhuyse

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D hahah alright. Shit happens. Good that you're aware of it though! I hope you can get it figured out.

I wonder if you could test the duration that HEPA filters stay effective...

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

HEPA - sorta forever, it's complicated, they get more efficient as they get blocked, but the airflow reduces (to my understanding) - what I think people need to know more is the carbon filter expiry which is much much shorter, and should be easy to monitor, in theory.

loved the Ivan Miranda reference haha

To be honest, I don't know if I fully agree. Sure, 0 VOCs detected is ideal. But, I am sure there is a threshold of what will actually cause irritation or issues for a user. If there is a threshold how does the rate of VOC emission from printing filaments compare? Is the total quantity of VOCs consumed a factor; PLA over 2 days vs ABS over 6 hours, etc. To say all levels of VOCs are bad feels oddly weird. Alcohol is bad, but consumed in small amounts over a period of time shows little to no adverse response/issues.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

You're absolutely right, and there are defined occupational limits. I really want to be able to quantify these amounts, I'm working on it.

Carbon does work, and is used by car painters, and others. But what many don't seem to understand is that carbon has a shelf life of 6months, and once exposed to air carbon actually is only effective from 2-6 hours, and then needs to be replaced. Yes I said 2 to 6 hours. Car painters go through loads of the stuff to stay safe. So I wish some one would do tests in the 3d printer world. I used to work closely with car painters. Carbon is not the magic filter many seem to think it is. I know some only replace their carbon after months of use.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, carbon also absorbs VOCs indiscriminately so if you're cooking, you're expiring your filters

you should do a test with a carbon filter like "the filter" for voron 2.4

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I plan to

3D printer vs being stuck in traffic. Wonder which is worse.

@LostInTech3D

4 ай бұрын

Traffic I bet.

From my experience such cheap TVOC meters can give some comparison, but they're also big guessing machines. It would be interesting to compare results with more calibrated industrial meters that can also distinguish formaldehyd and others. Not cheap, but maybe some company would sponsor such a video by lending a device.

Maybe add something to the title. Like just: 'Your 3D Printer Stinks. (Particles it's emitting)'. It might bring more attention, and safety is always a nice topic. I wouldn't know what's that video is about from the title. I just watch your every upload xd

Have you tested the PM.25 detector with steam, can it differentiate steam from smoke?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

It probably can't, but that's not steam.

@Marty72

11 ай бұрын

@@LostInTech3D I just thought maybe there was a combination of both, but obviously you have the benefit of actually doing the experiment. I was just curious. Thanks for replying.

The irony of watching this while printing ABS-CF next to me. At least I'm actually working on a venting system. Just don't have it up yet. I actually love the smell of wood PLA, but can't stand Nylon.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Haha, hold your breath!

Higher temperature and higher extrusion rates explains the spike during loading

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Probably that, yeah

I don't understand your sub count, I feel like your videos are about as good as maker's muse

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I clearly need more bird vids

@Loneman_OG

11 ай бұрын

This.

PLA smell good ABS smell bad Cool data though, thanks for the video!

I use a HEPA filter to filter PM2.5 but after seeing this video, I am sad

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Running a HEPA filter is still a great idea, generally. There are lots of things hanging around that HEPA filters catch.

I appreciate the use of Human jazz. Way better than Snake Jazz

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Tss tss tsss.

The greek letter µ (pronounced mu like in municipal) Do you record interlaced?

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

not on purpose! something went wrong in the render and I didn't notice

The fact that there are particulates in the air does not mean they are dangerous for you.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

which is why you need to consult the MSDS, right?

One of my biggest issues with the ‘studies’ is that they rarely use a 3D printer at all, rather just burn the plastic and measure the bad stuff… not all that honest but nonetheless it makes all the headlines. VOC’s can be very bad, but not necessarily especially given the base material’s PLA is created with. Which means the VOC will be present but not necessarily harmful unless burned and the chemicals undergo reactions to create worse compounds… I wouldn’t sweat PLA, ABS on the other hand crosses the threshold of concern because of the chemicals that constitute it before burning. Figuring out chemical composition of smoke is though, so beyond just looking at the chemicals your starting with I wouldn’t recommend spending lots of money on generic particulate readers. Some exotic filaments are actually deadly poison when heated too high, so I am by no means dismissing this but most hobbyist shouldn’t break the bank venting and air scrubbing PLA. If it contains Styrene, PVC, Kevlar assume it is poisonous and act accordingly no need to measure. For the rest of us just take the 3D printer out of the kids nursery and into the garage or attic/workshop where it belonged in the first place, done 👍.

@mariospanayiotou6644

11 ай бұрын

PLA itself is fine yes, its bio from corn starch and what not but don’t forget its not naturally purple, so stuff is added to it for colour and strength

no greek letter is called micro :P If you mean: "μ" it's our lower case M and it's called "me" exactly like me. Micro translates as small, so "me micro" means small m. Thanks for the deep dive in the emissions topic!!

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I had sarcastic annotations about my, but the editor corrupted them 😞

@lLost in Tech have you seen these Airthings-292 Wave Mini? Similar to what you mentioned and has an app with graphs.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Yeah it's been mentioned to me

That's what stopping me from getting a 3d printer.

if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound ? If i cant smell it, does my 3d printer stink? either way....im not gonna worry about it......

Bro try to build a bento box . It is a diy 3d print hepa and carbon filter to see how it works

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

I'm aware of it, I'll see how this all pans out

Cant wait for Neptune 4 review

@flipperyapper0474

11 ай бұрын

Same

I take a handful of pills every morning. Today I was running late, and took the pills a minute or two before going out. In the hallway, I burped when I locked my door. A noticeable mist appeared, very similar to seeing your breath on a cold morning. Though perhaps it dissipated quicker. The door was a dark red, otherwise I doubt I would've seen it. I suspect it was the Vitamin D3. Very strange.

@LostInTech3D

11 ай бұрын

Wait what