Dont thinks of it as wasting your time, think of it as wasting your enemies time

@killatubby

4 ай бұрын

In halo that how i see it when it my whole team quits sure, but that because halo has very strict leaver rules. But when i'm playing with the homies in unrank cs or val it very clear due my low ass skill we got put with a team of smurfs and it clear they are farming and 4/5 are like yeah no let just do a diff match and that one friend like no it fucking sucks. We don't work most of day to come home to get farm for kills for some fucking no life barely passing their high school or collage classes to farm us. That isn't fun, it one thing to have pride in your skill it more adult to see when a battle is lost and retreat and look back on that match later for insight.

@thedarkenhunter9783

4 ай бұрын

I think no FF is more Waste of Time an Mentaly Capacity/ Tilt Capacity i mean i play league sens Zyra Release 😅 its more like ok i dont want 2 tilt my Whole Capacity in this game i mean when ur Adc fucked all up or u Fucked all up u Quit normaly so is in poe maps or idk Gunfire Reloadet und Restart an news Map or Game 4 an Reset but in League sometimes comes an idiot and Says never FF

@tankster27

4 ай бұрын

I'll rather do bots. My team wastes my time the moment they surrender. I can't learn shit when there's constant surrender

@thedarkenhunter9783

4 ай бұрын

​@@tankster27 yeah sometimes an sometimes i mean someone fucked up or Is mentaly u can Protect Mental Capacity

@FuriousSyndrome

4 ай бұрын

this

Important context for this video is that, according to Dimitri in a previous video, League is the only one he hasn't been able to succeed in (to the levels he did in R6S, OW, Val, CS), and has since given up on climbing in it. League accounts are public, so if you look at his stats, he gave up (FF'ed) at a rate more than DOUBLE that of the average player at his elo. He kept swapping roles, champions, and builds trying to find "easy LP" instead of respecting the difficulty and complexity of League of Legends, a game that people have been optimizing for 14 years now. I spent two years verifying accounts for competitions (checking for smurfs), which involved looking at these stats. I have NEVER seen a surrender rate that high.

@sethyoder7996

4 ай бұрын

RIP

@nbn461

4 ай бұрын

yo how can you do him dirty like that LOL 😂😂😂😂

@koala-ytt

4 ай бұрын

That has nothing to do with the content though

@ambiguousspotlightofinsani6764

4 ай бұрын

​@@koala-yttThis is exactly why he is low elo hardstuck. League is not CSGO, you can't just get a bunch of kills and snowball economy with stronger guns; shutdown system, crossmap plays, 3-man dives, splitpushes, scaling wincon, forcing skirmishes, mechanics and limit plays you name it - there are so many ways of comebacking. Hell you can't even snowball in laling phase as hard as pre-S13 since TP is a thing, death timers are extremely low, turret plates are nerfed and in general first 5-7 minutes is afk farming. Yet so many players mental boom over a fucking cannon miss, not aware that ppl legit int in gm/challenger lobbies after getting ahead and lose games off their cockiness so often the math doesn't have the numbers to count these. Instead of spreading ff mentality it would be optimal to increase player awareness of the fact that the game is fucking complex and there is always a chance of flipping. For fuck's sake, how many games in competitive play have been flipped over after getting down 5k+ gold (or getting allied nexus to 1hp), and you seriously believe your lobby is playing better than tier 1 teams who lost after leading 5k+ gold?

@misgarbled

4 ай бұрын

That's respectable. Not everyone gets to be better at every game. The fact that he has a considerable rank in FOUR games is a feat already.

As someone who's played a sickening amount of Dota games, I gotta say I love the fact that there's no surrender button. I can't count how many times just muting everything up, focusing, and really trying your best to at least make it hard for your enemies to finish the game opened up a window for a comeback. Many times, it's just nothing but a foolhardy attempt at stalling for time but every once in a while, pulling off an Epic Comeback really makes you feel like you've achieved something great. What's even more refreshing is… Typing "GG EZ" after a hard fought 2 hour match.

@alyasVictorio

3 ай бұрын

Oh Hell Yeah! Hope those games add a bonus reward that takes effect when you win a long/longer match (mostly ranked) and slightly give higher chances not to lose rank points for those who lossed that long match as a compensation

Never Surrender my friend. There is no glory without risk, no courage without fear.

@spookysack

4 ай бұрын

True you always gotta take the opportunity to get better. You never know, you might actually win. One time I had two afk's in VALORANT platinum 3 and I match MVP'd and won in double overtime. Still very unlikely, but pushing your limits gives so such a good dopamine hit.

@chucklesdeclown8819

3 ай бұрын

i always go to that galaxy quest line "never give up, never surrender" and i still hold that philosophy in competitive games, even in league back in the guy, i was the one guy that always voted no. i dont care that we're losing, i still wanna see where this is goin.

As a Dota 2 player I am very happy that in Dota there is no surrender button because so many times there has been games where it looked like a clear loss and teammates moral very low but, then something just happens where the tide turns and the enemy team takes a bad fight has no buybacks and BOOM you went from absolute bad feeling of this game over to now you just won the game. If there was a surrender button then we would never have to amazing games. Whenever I played League with friends I notice they will just give up quick and vote surrender. I hate that it is such a give up bad mentality which never results in actual growth.

@allansolomon5132

4 ай бұрын

In dota if your team fell behind you can still make plays and comeback, in league there's a thing call late game scaling where everyone one shot you and it's much harder to comeback

@sirdabzmcgee

4 ай бұрын

You really think in Dota you can't just get 1 shotted? You must not play dota because it is very easy to get late game and have 1 tinker 6 slotted all over the map perma hex and nuking you or a Phantom Assassin just throwing a dagger and 1 shotting you. @@allansolomon5132

@sethyoder7996

4 ай бұрын

@@allansolomon5132 League has some of the strongest comeback mechanics in any game. Literally a few mistakes from your opponent and you can easily get back into a game. Bounties and Catchup EXP are incredibly strong and forgiving, and most often people surrender because a SINGLE enemy is fed. Outside of dragons (and now void grubs), nothing is permanent to the extent that you cant catch up. But the data is right, most of the time ff at 15 games arent winnable. But having the mindset of "Just go next, its over" leads so many people to just stop trying in many extremely winnable games, especially if they threw their lane but have teammates that are even or sometimes ahead.

@fuu6490

4 ай бұрын

Also dota: can throne

@Sebastian.Medina

4 ай бұрын

​@@sethyoder7996ff at 15 arent winnable because people already have the idea that they'll lose so the morale is low and sometimes people stop trying

My greatest comebacks and most remembered games are from failed surrender

@bigdumbfatcat2869

4 ай бұрын

And what was your reward? What was gained? VS all the time you wasted, and for what, a 10% chance of a win? Which, gives you NOTHING extra, other than "greatest comebacks" (which nobody gives 2 Teemo shrooms about) and "most remembered games" (in low Elo with no stakes and no extra reward). If at least Rito had some sort of reward system for comebacks, i could see the point, but otherwise you have probably wasted hundred of hours, playing lost games, for a 10% chance of getting a win. I hope you don't ever do any gambling, because you are terrible at calculating risk and odds.

@ViktorKozh

4 ай бұрын

@@bigdumbfatcat2869 3%.

@bigdumbfatcat2869

4 ай бұрын

@@ViktorKozh I was being generous. 10% is way more than what they get in reality, and even then it's irrational.

@ErebosZ

4 ай бұрын

okay why play the game in general? If you're gonna play the game you get some good feeling from it, if you win a hard game you get more of that@@bigdumbfatcat2869

@PaulWaysandForever

4 ай бұрын

facts

Don't surrender, make your enemies work their assess for that W

Bruh probably dies twice in lane due to his own fault, flames the jg and starts spamming ff

Im not trapped here with you. You are trapped here with me.

Dota 2 taught me it isn't over until the throne explodes

as a dota player who grew up playing in SEA server surrendering is not an option even if i lose the game, i will make sure i win my trashtalk in every single language they speak

@aqlifsteam8955

4 ай бұрын

average SEA player i see. based

@oyu7214

4 ай бұрын

I play leauge occasionally. EVERYTIME we lose mid T2, or a teamfight, everyone wants to FF instantly. We lost one teamfight, chill.

Actually has some philosophical implication. The way how we lately think abut our time in a more commodified sense, ppl started to embrace "fail faster" ideologies over resilience. My experience over years of gaming is that ppl have ever less will to fight for their wins. Seemingly everybody wants a chill, easy win, even if it feels less satisfying, but mor efficient. And what is more important in our current culture than efficiency ?

@piotrmorag2597

4 ай бұрын

People just want to dominate and have a fast win without the learing and growing part... If they're not, they get mad in 5 min and the mental is gone 💀

@theflyingtoaster7414

4 ай бұрын

Goes hand in hand with people going ballistic over SBMM, making conspiracies and buying VPNs or P2W Skins, and other junk. But This is also a sorta consequence of Battle Passes demanding daily wins and challenges to get the cosmetics you paid for.

@dooflegoof

4 ай бұрын

exactly, and also people today became radically individualistic too, the way they are so quick to assume that people who don't FF are taking them hostage, I know it sounds weird and should be about pessimists instead, but I feel like they don't assume the worst of people because they have negative worldview but because it's easier to throw the blame at someone else they don't know so they don't have deal with complex emotions and guilt and stuffs

@ddranimestyle

3 ай бұрын

As stated in the video, this has a more literal translation when we look at other parts of the world that don't often have home gaming PCs, and play at PC cafes that charge by the hour. FF-ing a game that you know has an inter in it by 15 minutes saves literal currency value over playing it out and trying to salvage what is a low-percent winrate game. Besides literal time for money, though, I think it's fine to feel that your time doing anything has value. If you don't like something, why spend your precious time doing it? Obviously in a PvP game there has to be winners and losers, and players generally accept that. But I think Riot's perspective isn't trying to help people's "will to fight for their wins", it's to encourage player retention to play more games after the last one. If a failed 4-vote FF game has a 3% winrate, it's arguably cruel to keep those players in that game if they don't want to play it out. If it was a particularly drawn-out game with a toxic inter, they could feel burnt out afterward and not want to continue playing. Riot could always add more comeback mechanics to increase the winrate of those hopeless games. Team-wide shut down bounties, better stalling or turtling, etc. Or they could make FF'ing easier, which takes the part of the pain out of that experience and makes getting to the next game faster, which people might feel is more respectful of their time. It's easier for Riot to create, and keeps people playing. Riot said themselves they found that shorter games in general are good for player retention, and their job is having us addicted to their game, so... there you go lol

@CraftyF0X

3 ай бұрын

@@ddranimestyleAgain it's about personal preferences and philosophy, one can easily argue that playing it at the first place is a waste of time. There is a point of view that if you dedicate your precious time to gaming, you might as well try to get good at it, thus you better try your limits and give a chance to come back from tough games. Statistics are one thing, but winning a game you know you had less than 3% to win might just give you a huge psychological boost and the confidence to get better. And then, as you said their is the efficiency and related financial arguments. One has to be - maybe over - generous with his time and energy to keep trying to win what seems unwinable. The underlying philosophical question here is that of the valuation of wheter your gaming time only important if you are having fun, or struggle can give meaning to the whole experience. Philosophers pondered on this in the context of a good life, wheter it's the one that has more happy moment or the one that contains struggle but pays off. I think everyone has a personal preference of his own about how much fighting he is willing to endure and for what, and when it comes to there that trying to make every moment maximally fun just makes thing vapid and meaningless (like endless scrolling) I found that the key to unhappyness is to find wrong goals, so you always want to track which is a more important goal for you, to struggle, get better and try to enjoy the process this way, or to give up, get to the next onee, choose it more wisely, and just play games to chill and have fun.

as someone who came from Dota, I don't understand why people surrender in any other games? Like if they think the match was a "wasting their time" then why are you playing the games then? You're already wasting your time there. But I might be wrong, it's just my opninion.

@ugurcankarakas6554

4 ай бұрын

As someone played both mobas problem is not wasted time but wasted mental. When you're on the losing side people starts to feel bad and flaming a-holes make it much worse. Also league games are much more snowbally because item spikes hit much harder.

@CoffeeMonster01

4 ай бұрын

how do you not understand such a basic concept? are you trying to make dota players sound dumb?😅😅

It's kinda funny that DOTA's pro scene is the only one of these you see ff's in, but the one you can't actually surrender in ranked in. As someone who plays TCGs, I have won rounds in tournaments MTG because my opponent allowed me to keep playing a game I was 100% to win, but could just drag it out.

@iftheresawill_theresaway3425

4 ай бұрын

You can gg out of games but only if you are playing as a 5 stack, the feature only got added fairly recently.

@capgras7136

4 ай бұрын

people in chess and star craft also usually surrender before the game ends. surprised it's not mentioned in the video

@kent.4220

4 ай бұрын

@@capgras7136 they surrender usually if they know a mate is coming, not when your down 2 or 3 pieces

@sebastianozezza6716

4 ай бұрын

But you don't lose a piece (not pawn, but even there) as that mistake Is back breaking and leads to a loss, try putting 2 computers of equal skill against each other and remove a knight and see what happens

@sebastianozezza6716

4 ай бұрын

But you don't lose a piece (not pawn, but even there) as that mistake Is back breaking and leads to a loss, try putting 2 computers of equal skill against each other and remove a knight and see what happens

i play dota so i cant really (ff), but the feeling u get when u do the comeback and actually hit and kill your enemy's throne (like a super good nerd i am) is the most satisfying thing in all the games ive played. ok go next now.

@equilibrium_69

4 ай бұрын

Don't forget typing the EZ and clapping back at the enemy who was talking shit all game

@michaeldota3210

4 ай бұрын

@@equilibrium_69 typinge ez(enter) ez (enter) ez (enter) someone else racial slur * XD ez (enter)

Saying «you should probably surrender» is such a bad way of playing the game, id take the 3.5% chance of winning when i can

I can't count the number of games over the years that I've won in Dota that my team wrote off at the 10 minute mark. Not having the option to surrender has done wonders for the players in the game

@axarionn7544

4 ай бұрын

Coming back from mega creeps feels way too good

@ventu7907

4 ай бұрын

Dota has way better comeback mechanics than LoL and no dragons

I can't stress how bad this video's frame is. I think the issue of hostaging teammates in a bad ranked game is far different than people willing to give up after they made a single mistake whilst their entire team is doing well. When climbing to masters, I recall winning 3 out 5 games where 1 or even 2 teammates went AFK (would have won all if they didn't) because we didn't want to surrender. Most games where you are not behind over 5-8k gold are very winnable, especially if have a good mental and decent macro to farm up and get objective bounties. Don't give up easily, try your best every game. If you think the game is done and so do your teammates, then sure ff but you will save a lot of LP and time if u at least tried every game to give it your all. It's a marathon, not a sprint to your next game where you can instant ff again

@Squadfamdeluxe

4 ай бұрын

If you want the math on it, Thinkcard of NRG and LS had an exchange on twitter, and Thinkcard basically demonstrated that, excluding mental (which is something that you can control), you would have to play something like 20+ games per day for FFing to make sense for climbing. Congrats on hitting masters!

@Sisko526

3 ай бұрын

this is just how riot and people like him are designing a more toxic and less skilled playerbase, people can neither take a loss nor have the skill to actually close out games its abysmal to see how people dont even know that objectives are key and how and when to take them in mid dia and below in euw but atleast these people play 100 games a month... if you tell people its about quantity and not quality, naturally the quality of games will lower and the quality of players shrinks with the quality of games... someone is really running it down? yeah sure ff but as long as people are trying to their ability and knowledge a game is winable all you need to do is adapt to that

@kalreynolds5829

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. Like, sure, you're making the game shorter, and if you're certain you'll lose that is the right decision. But you can never be certain you'll lose. It is not wise to quit just because you're behind. When that's your habit you will quit games that you should have stuck out, out of a desire for efficiency. And it'll still take a full won game to get that progress back (or more depending on the title and the MMR system). You are not really saving a great amount of time, and you are risking the next game being exactly as "bad" according to the flawed standard you set. I hate it when people decide "Oh, he's just too fast for me, just too good for me". Shhh, you're tilting your team. Instead of whinging about your opponent's strengths and the plays you lose, counterplay and try to win some back, and lose with a little bit of integrity. You'll find that you pull some back, that some are good opportunities for practice, and they're always a great time to shine. In a 4v5 you've got 20% more enemy to shoot at. You're going to get more kills, in fact, it's possible to lose with a positive KDR for the team at that point. It's a chance to flex your greatest plays against multiple opponents in a match where the worst that can happen is you'd lose like you would anyway if you quit. It's loser mentality. 4v5 is a chance for me to practice clutching, to stack and rush with MP9's, to get some easy kills on players who become overconfident when they know they have the numbers. What sort of a coward needs a crew of friends to back him up to win a fight? I fight my enemies like a man, 4v5, 3v5, this just means more options for me. You're not learning to deal with adversity, you're not learning counterplay, you're learning to tilt yourself the minute you make a mistake instead of growing from it. You learn nothing, you gain nothing, you go on again to spread this toxic mentality to other players. A fifteen minute timer on that vote protects the rest of the playerbase *from you*.

Never give up, never surrender. Giving Up Is For Crybabies. You get better both mentally, physically & emotionally through uphill battles and getting over it. -Your Sincerely, Dota 2 Community With No Surrender Button

@dcd3lt4

4 ай бұрын

As a former Dota 2 player who switched to LoL, I approve of this message. If you think a thirty minute game is hell, then be thankful that you're not playing an hour and a half game wherein you and your enemy is being held hostage by a pair of goblins and their nuts.

@Diopside.

4 ай бұрын

Play League and lets see how ur opinion changes.

@pluckyleon6640

4 ай бұрын

@@Diopside. I do play league & not once did i vote surrender, infact my auto surrender cancel is open in every game i play. Its not over till its over.

It's amazing how in a game with such good comeback mechanics and about literally scaling up and playing the map the FF vote gives toddlers with a weak mental more power than people actually trying to learn and play the game. Even if your goal is winning, the 10% of games that go long are the games with the most gains. If not you likely lose in 5 anyways and limit test or try and learn playing from behind. Problem is no one wants to play from behind or even accept they lost early. They want to protect the ego and say it was a team diff and go to the next one where they stop except that's an early FF so it's not satisfying either. The defeationist mental stops people from improving or learning. There's a reason most games don't have an FF options and the biggest issue is teams are super quick to FF with a horrid evaluation. I've had teams FF early with an 8/0 carry and a 1k gold deficit. Unless the game itself signals a 5+k gold difference or all the bounties go on the Janna somehow its Hella winnable. Play it out, accept you might lose or might have misplayed and focus on how you can win from the current game state. It not only helps you learn but also makes the game more fun. You literally can't play a scaling pick in this environment because teams are ffing at a single component. Most of the League players that preach this have not played other genres like Fighting games. You go into those expecting to get your ass handed to you. Multiple times. Completely wasted. The point is you slowly amass techniques. Your first defeat your only goal was to counter their strong opener. It worked once. Next was to anti-air once. It worked the last round. Next was to try a super hard combo. Each of these are small wins and personal wins regardless of the actual match and the match result could matter less. You learned and gained from those losses and are quite literally scaling as a person. Eventually your arsenal of tools you amassed are deep enough that you just get the wins because you learned so much. Don't play for results, play for knowledge and learning. Results come after that. There's a reason a good mental is more essential to climbing than any mechanic or macro. If you tilt and rage at the smallest mistake you will lose the 20% of close games that you could carry yourself and get the maximum LP out of. If you only play out the stomps that's maybe 40% of games and you learn nothing. Part of the game is comebacks and playing from behind and it's insane how much of the player base has lost that knowledge over recent years. Season 3 playing Kassadin and literally farming under turret and knowing you win in 20 if you don't die is rarely possible when the team FFs as soon as you get a RoA. Play. It. Out. Or forever stay a worse player that can only play from a lead. Fall Fast and quickly is great to a point but in fighting games and card games it's a known thing you need both quick sets to practice quick adaptation to new opponents and long sets to practice adapting to the mental battle of an opponent you're figuring out. Ffing removes the latter. One more thing. This applies not just to the game but to life. If you allow this mentality you'll struggle to learn anything or improve at a craft. You'll struggle to make your goals reality. A positive learning mentality will go SO far. Learning you can't control everything and working around what you have helps so much and most don't get the opportunity to learn it in a risk free environment like a video game. Use that to your advantage.

@sethyoder7996

4 ай бұрын

Incredibly well said. I found I improved at games SO MUCH FASTER when I tried to focus on "Always try to be playing your best and always play the game out". Basically trying to shift my mindset from "Win = good" to "Performed = good". And learning how to play from behind is an insanely underrated skill that ONLY comes with experience. In a game like League the only places where surrendering early is actually reasonable is peak challenger, where players are so good at snowballing leads and people have a good enough grasp on what ISNT winnable without their opponent making major mistakes. But any skill rating below the pinnacle of play, people DO make mistakes and the catch-up mechanics are strong enough where just a few mistakes can completely flip the game.

@Squadfamdeluxe

4 ай бұрын

Preach. League isn't for everyone. Ranked is not a casual game to unwind. People need to be honest with themselves: are they playing ranked to just press the buttons, or are they playing ranked because they want to work at something and improve at it? If the former, there's hundreds of single player or co-op games that are way better for you. Leave League to those of us that want to put in the effort to honestly get better at something. Not many places left after HS to find a competitive pursuit.

@theflyingtoaster7414

4 ай бұрын

Different game but I think it harmonizes. When I played Apex Legends. I made an effort to train on weapons considered low-teir and off meta. When asked why I wouldn't pick up obviously better weapons I'd simply say "Why would I want to train on a weapon that kills for me?". Every win in 1v1 with "Bad" guns that I won was simply a side effect,

@ugurcankarakas6554

4 ай бұрын

You literally don't understand half of the problem. I don't mind trying until the end. BUT playing on the losing side already makes people feel bad and even if they wanna try those flaming a-holes turn it into a terrible experience. Most people play games to feel "good" and those sob'a that flame because they can't accept a loss are ruining others experiences because of their fragile ego so people don't wanna stuck with them and quit. If you're someone who can stfu when playing from behind and boost the moral I'm not talking about you. Your jungler missed a smite fight "shit happens bro don't worry", someone got caught while split pushing "let's try to provide vision to our split pusher" if you're not this person you don't get to be the one who is telling me that I should just try

@kun4i503

4 ай бұрын

As a guy who plays League and fighting games, I don’t think both types of games are even comparable. In a fighting game, it’s 1v1. If I fuck up and lose, get my ass clapped by the same shit over and over again, that’s on ME. I can’t blame anything else (unless the net code is terrible) and I am the sole reason I lost. In League (especially if you’re playing support like I do), you could be the greatest support in the world with immaculate macro, pinging your team where to go and what objectives to take, but if the other 4 players don’t care about you, then you will never win. I don’t care if you go 12/0 or 20/2, if you can’t get your team to act, you WILL lose. Also consider how snowball-y League is when compared to fighting games. Imagine if your opponent’s attacks do double damage whenever they take a round off of you, and matches are now first to 20 instead of first to 3. Would people surrender or rage quit more? More than likely. That’s the League experience. Season 14 just started and no feeing is worse than bot lane doing well, me vibing with my adc, then pressing tab and seeing our top 0/7 and our mid 0/5. The game is pretty much over at that point since bot lane will get 4 man dived, feeding the enemy more, losing us the game. People will always say “our champ scales” or “we just need to wait for them to make a mistake” without realising that yes, little Timmy’s champion scales, but Timmy's intelligence and skill sure as hell won’t scale if he dies to the same trick 3 times in lane. Wait for the enemy team to make a mistake? Might as well pray to God for your own team to not make a game losing mistake before that. In a team based game, if your team is not trying to win, then you’re not gonna win. Straight up. If you are on a football (soccer) team and you're playing competently but your goalie decides to not play, and half your team decides to leave mid match you’re not gonna win. Maybe you think it’s winnable, and maybe it IS winnable. Any game is winnable if the entire enemy team randomly disconnects and never joined back (I have had that happened to me once). You can try and fight back, is it worth the time though? Not just your time, but the other 4 players’ time as well. 97% loss rate on all failed 4-1 votes in League. Are you really gonna sit there for another 10mins and hold everyone hostage because you cling onto that 3% so much? Not to mention your team will NEVER play better after a failed surrender (quite the opposite), so what even is the point of holding everyone up? There’s always people preaching about “don’t blame your team, blame yourself, you can always play better” which is absolutely BS. You need as much luck as you need skill to actually climb in League. Is it my fault that my top goes 0/7 10mins into the game? Is it my fault that my mid laner decides to afk after dying 5 times? Is it my fault that my adc doesn’t know how to control waves and cs-ing properly? My job as a support is to enable my team’s win condition, so if my team doesn’t have one and all 3 lanes are losing is it my fault then? You can be as consistent as possible, and sure, you may climb, but know that at any point if the game wants you to lose, you will lose and no amount of “never surrender” mentality is gonna stop that from happening. Am I gonna learn anything by playing a game out if we go 0-18 before the landing phase has even ended? Hell no you best believe I’m out (mentally and physically) before the surrender vote even ends. The best way to learn or improve is to review your actions, not sit there and play it out like a mindless drone. If you know you’re in an uncontrollable situation, then accept it and move on. There’s no point wasting time, energy, and effort at that point - especially in a video game.

In most fps, confidence is as important as aim. If you have a tendency to ff, you’ll likely fulfil a self fulfilling prophecy that you cannot win

your mentality in game will transfer to (or is a reflection of) things in your life outside gaming, if you train yourself to give up at the very moment things don't go your way then it's gonna be tough, you will be miserable to be around and most importantly by yourself think about it, what makes a game fun? it's artificial challenges to overcome and get good at, even the most casual farming game gave you problems to solve, if you don't even try to play from behind in league games then you're not having fun playing the game, it's an addiction, you're craving quick dopamine hits from a win, that's what called a waste of time "bUt I hAvE a loNG dAY at wORk and wAnNa rELaX?" then chose something more relaxing to spent your free time on if you are not enjoying the game

@xplozion7603

3 ай бұрын

Spitting fax.

The thing with League is, if youre mid lane, your botlane is 0/10 at five minutes, your top lane is mentally boomed and threatening to leave and everyone is flaming jungler... its just not fun to continue playing, especially for that 1% chance of enemy team throwing their lead. But then, none of them wanna ff, cause they want to "punish" each other.

@taoofjester4113

4 ай бұрын

I play smite on the console and it seems to be as toxic as league. I just run non ranked games because I suck and enjoy trying weird builds. But good God are there so many toxic players. They will blame everyone but themselves, tell people to quit and kill themselves, and just non stop trash talk. It seems all of them think they are top tier players but are scared of playing ranked. And all of them seem to have forgotten how much they sucked when they first played. Losing sucks, especially when it is by a huge margin. Instead of getting tilted, help the people not playing well with suggestions. Assuming they haven't done what I did and turn off chat. Reading trash talk from the mid blaming the support for not saving them when they get caught out in a 1v4 gets so damn old. Or when they have 2 kills and 10 deaths but it is because their teammates are bots and has nothing to do with them playing hyper aggressive or stupid.

@FirestormX9

4 ай бұрын

bro just play teemo.

@trailfork7815

4 ай бұрын

As an aram only lategame comebacks happen far far more frequently here

@atrozzorta9602

4 ай бұрын

That and you have people like the guy at 7:24 who believe every game is winnable and playing from behind will teach you how to win from behind. The amount of time I've wasted on League games that were lost but people refused to accept that so we had to turn a 15min game into a 20-30min one is too damn high!

@8thgstriker412

4 ай бұрын

this is for sure a generalized statement but i would typically agree with you even with the situation you commented, the games with that scenario that you end up winning (somehow lol) arent satisfying at all i have more fun losing, a close game or competitive, as long as everyone is chilling i minimized my chat so small that i can still read it but i for sure have to go out of my way to read it.... in like 95% of my games i never even look at a single chat... just pings win or lose, toxic teammates or not, close game or shit stomp.... im basically only paying attention to the game, really helps with enjoyment of the game the 0-5 bot lane may be raging in chat, but since my chat is so small and its hard to read... in my head hes just having a bad day

It’s not about “I can still win”. But if I always want to surrender, I will create a losers mentality. Meaning my mind will wander to find excuses rather than trying to problem solve and find solutions to the games. With that said, I don’t think you should never surrender. I come from a rts gaming background where literally every single game is surrendered before the actual game ends. IMO, I think this kinda video is really hurtful for the mentality of the community. And they create these videos for easy clicks :(

@mulahasanovic_

4 ай бұрын

Video has a bad take, I agree, especially right now when there's big discussion about FF in League among the creators. I'd like just to add, RTS mostly is played 1v1 with Bo3 series at least and surrender dynamic is different when there are no teammates. Only fair comparison In video is Dota 2, which is even worse where gamees last twice as long. But still, they mentioned pro teams surrendering, but didn't go into details. Pro games are almost always series as well, and you can see teams giving their all when it's knock out round and not giving up.

@dcd3lt4

4 ай бұрын

@@mulahasanovic_ " ... last twice as long" >looks at 1.5 hour match yeah. checks out.

@kalreynolds5829

2 ай бұрын

Agreed. There is a big difference between quitting in an RTS because your enemy has destroyed all your unit production and is mopping up your forces. Or quitting in chess because it's mate in 4 moves. In fact, there is a quiet dignity in recognising that the game has gone against you, acknowledging you've been bested and resigning. But you don't want to go out like an Age of Empires bot quitting when you were just enjoying smashing his base, you don't want to go out like a squealing child upset that he's 0 for 3. There's a huge difference between acknowledging inevitability, showing that you see it coming and accepting it, and deciding that you just aren't good enough less than halfway into a game and chickening out.

I don’t care how bad it’s going. I NEVER SURRENDER!! This shit ain’t over until it’s over 😤

@Gokkee

4 ай бұрын

Agree👌

@Astelch

4 ай бұрын

but when your top/mid are purposely throwing to make sure we lose isnt it just better just to surrender? I rather start a new game than try to savage a win out of a loss+griefing teammates

@Gokkee

4 ай бұрын

@Astelch I try to improve my own fundamentals, so my time is not wasted. And I mute all every time 😉 Would go next be better? Probably, not gonna deny that. But practicing is needed, so nothing is wasted.

@dooflegoof

4 ай бұрын

@@Astelch doesn't matter, you can't control how others behave, if you always blame other, even if it's true, you will start doing it more often and it will become your default mindset when things go south, because it's easier to just blame things you have no control over, so you don't have to take responsibility try to play your best anyway even when you know it's a lost, if you think that extra whatever minutes the game gonna cost you for not FF'ed is a waste of time, then don't queue at all, you're not having fun, and the game is supposed to be fun

@Astelch

4 ай бұрын

@@dooflegoof I dnt blame anyone. I’m very disconnected to play the game when my teammates are clearly not trying/quit. I’ve been to high diamond and my method has always been if the game is over it’s fine go next. I win majority matchups as I play fill. Played this game for more than half people’s lifetime 14 yrs on and off.

Let’s be completely honest and transparent. Nothing will change in league with toxicity until Riot starts to perma ban accounts. The gloves need to come off and real punishment needs to be implemented.

@O6i

4 ай бұрын

They wont ban anyone who spent money on their game unless they cheat. Most games are like this because they are afraid that player wont play and pay again.

@r3v1xx

4 ай бұрын

They used to do this, and it was actually a lot worse back then.

@guymontag5084

4 ай бұрын

The problem is that Riot can't consistently detect whether a player is soft or hard inting if they just apologize in chat, meanwhile if you flame them in any way you will get insta banned because detecting that is very easy. It makes the gameplay a lot more passive aggressive than something like counter strike where valve literally does not care what you say at all.

@naimakka1949

4 ай бұрын

banning accounts for toxicity is just stupid, you can mute toxic people yourself, that's why league is a single player game because people whine as if what other people say is their responsibility

@dariomenegazzo8039

4 ай бұрын

you don't want to see what will happen to someone who actually spent money on this game getting his account permad, he WILL buy new account just to grief and make the experience miserable for everyone just to gratiate his weird sense of justice

If you play each match to win, instead of to get better, you will never win.

@kent.4220

4 ай бұрын

adapting to a losing match is getting better

Thank you Dota 2 to not provide surrender button, some game where I don't give up and win are really fun!

@brennancondon3357

4 ай бұрын

Some games are over though and it’s frustrating to be trapped in them. League has a issue with win trading and being stuck in a game like that just sucks.

@pineapplescuddleduck

4 ай бұрын

​@@brennancondon3357 Honestly I think it depends on your dota rank, if your anything like below like legend or something basically all games are winnable and since dota players are so prone to rageing, I think not having the ff is better because you would get people who would just give up really quick.

@brennancondon3357

4 ай бұрын

@@pineapplescuddleduck csgo had an issue that you could only ff if your down 10 rounds. People would blatantly cheat but not let you go down 10 rounds to make sure you can’t ff. I’ve definitely had winnable games be ff because people get salty, but I’ve also been stuck in games that are just Ls no matter what for 30 minutes too.

@pineapplescuddleduck

4 ай бұрын

@@brennancondon3357 yea I don't play anything but dota so I know nothing about how if their ffs work or not

@PursuitOfMadness1111

4 ай бұрын

Dota Players: Nah I'd Win

But if I FF at 15 every time I’m behind then I’ll never have to learn to play from behind

Rewards for game time and not performance will help people if not try to win than stick around and learn how to play from behind. Your ELO isn't a reward. it's a side effect to getting better at the game. Surrenders are best left as a silent toggle that bins the game if most of the team presses it. But here's a spicy option that also works. Cod's famous Nukes/Defcon are a form of Forced Surender by the enemy. The dev's recognized If 1 person in a game has accumulated ~30 kills without dying. it's a monolithic accomplishment and/or a genuine nightmare. The best solution is to end the match early with a big bang and let everyone move on with their lives. Criteria for a Forced Surrender would have to be rare but functional, Something LoL's complexity makes hard to do. Maybe some of you could think of an idea.

@kalreynolds5829

2 ай бұрын

Exactly. Allowing it to just be the players choice here encourages people to get worried early and quit, even though it's not a sure thing. By comparison, a nuke is 25 and 0. Maybe there's some nonsense before that but if someone kills 25 of you without dying, it's fair to call the mercy rule. But that's a far cry from letting players just cry uncle at the first sign of opposition.

There are so many players that want to ff after something doesn't go their way. Then when their team doesn't they flash in place, run in 1v5 and then say "See, it was unwinnable" when they lose.

You should be thinking about why you are in that situation. If you were to start a new game, would you expect to to better? You shouldn't be focused on "if i can't win, why play?" but rather "what can i learn in this situation so I will be better in the future?" Set small goals for yourself, like "I may not win, but I want to have the most kills on my team", or "least deaths" or "I will try to have the best KDA". Give yourself something to try for, besides just winning, where you aren't the only person who contributes to the results. You can't guarantee you will win, but you can guarantee you can practice and learn.

Dota has no surrender option unless you're playing in a 5stack, and it's lead to some of the greatest and memorable comebacks that I still remember to this day. One time, it was just me and a friend left, 2v5 because the rest of our team left. We somehow managed to win.

Here my rule of thumb in surrender - Never surrender a rank game - Never surrender a rotating game mode, match usually dont last that long anyway - Surrender normal if it too one sided, it just normal who care go next - Surrender aram if u play with friend only

@schutzadful

4 ай бұрын

You never surrender aram. aram is sacred.

@thomasouellet4655

4 ай бұрын

@@schutzadful Also never end games in aram. You need to experiment with your stupid build as much as possible.

the Amount of Times i was 39/3 on Nasus, when my dumbass Team just ffd. Dont ff guys

Minimize spending time doing optional things you do not enjoy in order to preserve as much positivity as you can.

Honestly, I love the moments when games are almost lost, because you can easly humble the opponent who thinks that you're free kill. I can't count the times when i was 0/4 on mid and the enemy thought that i'm powerless and just straight up dove under turret just for the shit of it. And that's the moment when you can take the game back. Use the enemy ego aganist them and shove it down their throat by taking the fat shutdown and stomping the game after. 9 times out of 10 enemy team will get mad at their midlaner, saying something along the lines of "wtf are you doing you had this" and ff'ing right after. The satisfaction of making enemies second guess themselfs and feeling the fear of losing the game that seemd like a free win is SUBLIME!

If you get checked easily it’s mental weakness

as someone who plays a lot of league and never surrenders, ive had teams respond in many ways, the most insane one was probably my teamate doxing me in real time, during the game, finding every single questionable thing ive ever said on the internet and send it to my boss, trying to get me fired. and yes i did get confirmation that the mail was recieved.

@nastyeggplant

4 ай бұрын

Your teammates need to touch grass holy shit

@bosscoolaid1015

4 ай бұрын

some people will try to kill someone over a game they could leave at any moment.

@Fohnzii

4 ай бұрын

That is WILD

@dcerty1852

4 ай бұрын

reading it here sounds wild but i definetely believe at least 1/20 players do that (maybe not the mail lol) when being held hostage

FF15 mentality is the easy way out of painful situations. The weak prefer the easy way out, the path of least resistance. I'm never going to hit yes no matter what. Having surrender possible conditions players to become losers instead of problem solvers. I'll take my extra 1-3% win rate from those unlikely games and be higher rank. This stat about winning more if you FF quicker is the most cope and pulled out of ones ass thing I've ever seen. When I changed my mindset to this, it changed everything. My win rates since then are way higher, I'm way higher rank because I force myself to improve instead of giving up. Be losers if you want to. I won't subscribe to this weak mindset. I'm playing until a nexus explodes, not until someone's mental explodes. Be better.

@ddranimestyle

3 ай бұрын

But when your Nexus IS about to explode... surrendering so you can see your Nexus blow up twice is kinda cool lol

Nah bro gotta get that fnatic loud comback

Nearly 60% of my games in league of legends are surrenders games. It's not fun, and it why i call the NA community trash. Bases are hardly destroyed these days. So folks need to stop making guides on how to come back in mid game, because people accept going next the moment one person screws up. People would rather dominate in all lanes and jungle than to accept someone losing.

Regarding League. I get it if you are being blown out the water at like 20-30 min, but there is some people that will just give up at the slightest loss and just want to ff asap even before game starts most times. Just bad mental overall, if you just play the game and a lot of the time you can come back. It's literally all just mental.

League is designed to snowball. This makes it much harder to “win from behind” without either intentional champion design (ie you have infinite scaling champs and they don’t) or serious, repeated mistakes by the opponent. In either case you are investing more of your time waiting for something you don’t have direct agency over vs starting a new match where you reset game agency.

Heavily depends on whether a game has snowballing (league) or is always even per round/goal. Imo RL's every player can vote for ff once after a set time is the best.

Sorry to disagree but there should not even be the option to surrender in League ranked games. The statistic riot poblisht is in my opinion not showing players know when to surrender but don't even try to win if things go wrong. Just punish the players that do not want to play the game. In the end we are not professional players and can always win as everyone makes a lot of mistakes

The mental of players when the option of FF'ing at 15 exists some players go autopilot and soft int so the vote is more likely to go through. Removing the 15m ff would be better for the game

Still don't agree. Data is so bad because people want to end sooner, so the surrender in their minds and stop playing the game. At least there is a possibility of that.

I won't ever surrender unless I am against cheaters, won too many games where we make a comeback after teammates try to surrender early, It's always winnable.

It’s good know when to surrender. People can’t see when a game is lost, they could be countered, levels behind and still think they can win. It’s crazy how people can’t see that. Look at your team, items, champs, then decide if it’s a loss.

Absolutely when it comes to League. With each game being >20 min, suffering through your final game of the night instead of just going next to get one more in is so painful

This is why I quit the game. I literally couldn't learn because I couldn't get a game to last long enough to get the metagame.

Its just crazy to me that people say just ff even if its 90% lost means that u have missed a win once every 10 times u surrendered. The factor for me to surrender or not is just like am i having fun/is having my premade having fun still.

Funny how Dota seems to aporoach surrender exactly opposite to all the other games.

When climbing in League I have a simple rule, if the game looks lost I'll start a vote for ff@15. If we don't surrender I'm holding everyone hostage the remainder of the game. Further explaining it, if we surrender at the 15 minute mark we likely managed to avoid wasting another 10-15 minutes on a lost match compared to surrendering @ 20 or 25 when its minutes away from losing at most. Any moment past 30 or so minutes I'm sticking through because I know everyone's mental is weak and the enemy team is more and more likely to throw the longer the game gets, once you get to the 40 min mark it does not matter how bad or how good a game was looking its a 50/50 that late into the game so you're better off playing it out. It even makes sense when you further analyze it, if a game goes on to the 40+ minute mark it means the winning team was not able to close out the match, if they can't end it's because they are losing momentum and if they are losing momentum it means you're likely to make a comeback if they mess up. In a way I'm playing a numbers game, surrendering matches early when the chances to win are low and sticking it through until you get to the highest likely hood of a comeback.

Azzapp is gonna wage war with this one

Dota 1 didn't have a surrender vote, you type gg rm and just alt Q Q which is instant leave the game then just join a new one

I think FF is the worst thing that happened to comp gaming. I believe that the reason for that %97 is that if people vote 4 yesses, its not because the game is unwinnable, it because they are mentally boomed BECAUSE they couldnt ff, and they stop trying even harder. Because the ff vote exists, people give up faster. If there was no FF vote, people would have learned to play better from behind, would try a little more that that % would be more like 80

Surrendering is for sore losers. If everyone would quite the moment they start losing, because that's obviously the most efficient and saves you the most time, then there wouldn't be the high of winning for those who earned it. If people are there to only chase numbers, ranks, wins etc. then are they even experiencing the game.

chess is good for this because you can play anywhere at any time, and you're not trapped in a match.

@sterlingdriggs8806

3 ай бұрын

None of these people are trapped in matches to begin with, they click the button to search for a game.

Tne correct, but much harder option is having a better mental. Surrender or not forget about that match and play the next one

Dopa once said that the longer your games, the higher your chances at winning. I'm not surrendering until I win or lose

Never surrender there's always a chance atleast try to make it so you lose less rr and such

the legend of colton's left monitor grows

@TheOnlyZoltan

3 ай бұрын

Always >:)

If the person who runs it down and flames all want to surrender.. i will always press no just to waste his time

Talking about surrendering in games, it has a very interesting use in yugioh. On occasion there will be games that you look at and say "I can't win this." In those situations, it's actually better to surrender than it is to play a losing game. The main reason for this is that it leaves your opponent in the dark on what you're actually playing. It can also mean more time on the clock for a game you may have a better chance in. This can of course affect your mentality going into the next game, where your playing may have been worse if your loss was frustrating. It's a cool utility given to something that would normally just be seen as giving up. I'd love to see more implementations of surrendering being a valid tactic in different games.

Why learn how to make a comeback when you can just learn how to avoid that scenario in the first place by, like, improving your play? Surrenders should be allowed for games that are already heavily skewed towards one team BUT it should not be promoted on Ranked.

This is honestly not a good take. It comes off as a chronic FF player justifying why they are surrendering. There's only one real scenario where FF should be considered: when the team _is_ actively sabotaging each other. It's no longer fun, no one wants to play the game, but they're just doing it to punish their teammates and harass them over chat. Ironically, the FF never goes through because they _want_ to grief. But for virtually every other scenario. FF is just an outlet for someone to vent their frustration at their lane. The game is almost always in the balance. Another lane may still be winning. A player can recover from behind with the comeback mechanics in League. The game state may be harder, but the right play will swing the game around completely. A team 9K gold ahead can and will screw up with a bad Baron call and lose every tower and nexus in one late-game disaster. A tilted player who suddenly gets a couple of shutdowns is hit with a 1K gold injection and they're back in the game realising "Oh shit, I can win this." The danger with the "Always Surrender" mentality is that it gives the player an easy way out. Whether or not the vote goes through, the player can wash their hands of responsibility. It's not my fault that I'm having a bad game - it's my teammates who are inting and are now holding me hostage, this game is therefore unwinnable and I no longer have to try to win. Remember that if you're tilted at your team and they are trolling each other, it's equally likely that the same is happening on the opposite team even if they are winning. You don't see their comms, but so often you will see spam FF votes on your own team and you end up winning anyway. If you want to keep a balance between your mental and playing out close games, don't take either extreme of the surrender spectrum. Keep a reasonable line. It's OK to vote Yes, but don't be the one to call the vote. Be the last to vote - if it's already 3 Yes, team wants out and it's reasonably safe to move on, but don't be the one who votes first or second and start snowballing the tilt.

Sometimes it comes to a point it becomes a warm up bro. Take it as a way to improve instead of bitching about the game

Thanks for video, guys.

Because in CS2 you lose exp, that goes towards reward drops, if you surrender, you should NOT surrender under any circumstances.

Literally just won a game where we were 12k gold behind. If your macro is better, you just win😅

@maybit9091

4 ай бұрын

Not true, the enemy probably died once and mental boomed and threw on purpose bc it's a ranked game and that's what they do and then they proceeded to hold their team hostage and waste everyone's time and ruin the mmr of those players bc that's what they think is fun

@phoenixflamegames1

4 ай бұрын

@@maybit9091No? We just were better in macro. We set up better, we pushed better and me stealing objectives helped too. It wasn't a ranked game btw.

A game where you surrender is a game where you lost your chance to comeback. I've came back from 12-0 on valorant, I came back from 15-0 on CSGO. I came back from 60-20 league. I've lost many too, but there's no way I surrender

I've never willingly surrendered a valorant match I truly don't see the point you should play as hard as you can despite what's going on and if you look you lose I beileve that experiencing a lose is more beneficial than quitting

i really hate the idea of surrender right now. im in master elo and people are soo weak mentally, that legit, we can be winning 27/4, but the guy who died 4 times, prefs to lose, or even one death they want to ff and the biggest problem is, THEY WANT TO FF, TO GO ANOTHER GAME AND DO THE SAME! if was a low portion of the player base (still, bad attitude) who do that, was ok, but is getting to common, people just wanting to ff, cuz im "bored" but like, if you are bored? why ur playing in the first place? And its tilting having a team who wants to play, but u are tilted, so u prefer to lose the game xd thats why i like cs2 and overwatch on that part, if your playing, your fault if things arent going well, you can always leave, no one forces you to stay, but u get the punishment for having a bad attitude

If you've seen the video about different regions mindset about surrendering and such I really relate to the KR mindset. If we are getting hard stomped ff and go next to get back in the game. Staying in a game that was a loss at 20-25 min and staying till 40-50 is a waste of time in my opinion. The pride, ego, etc that some have to stay in the game just to still lose is just not for me. Its okay to admit its a loss and go next. Some friends I simply can't play with bcuz when its clear that we are not making a comeback they want to stay bcuz it will make them feel better that they tried, which is fine for them to feel that but me, waste of time. Let me try to get in as many games as I can in with the time I have.

i never call for a ff or vote yes only times i leave a match is 1 of 3 things 1 the match ends, 2 i get kicked, 3 i ragequit. surrendering is for the weak minded

@CDodger24

3 ай бұрын

Rage quitting is worse than surrendering.

I can't wait to see the guys at Broken By Concept absolutely farm this video for content

People start a videogame just to say "nah f*ck it I don't want to play anymore" after 5 minutes. Imagine doing that when playing football or some other team sport. All the people arrive, ready to play the match, one side starts losing because they are worse and they just say "we surrender, bye". It always makes me irrationally angry when I see people advocating for surrendering. Like you either play a game to have fun or to improve. Neither is achieved by giving up. So f*ck off, grow some balls, and play.

We played on Nuke on CS & we were 10-2 down at halftime whilst we were on CT, so we just said fuck it & we ended up winning 16-14 after OT 😂 it's crazy how when you stop trying & just relax how much better you feel when playing sometimes

If you queue up for comp you make a commitment to spend however much time a game usually takes in that comp match. Suck it up and play

@Bulbasore

4 ай бұрын

That’s how I’d feel but then again, weak mental gamers = give up

@frauapfelkuchen6694

4 ай бұрын

This Statement is soooo true

@hyun-ki_hei

4 ай бұрын

That's bullshit. If it's lost, don't waste my time. Especially if I'm the one with the most carry potential and you're frikkin 0/10/1

@Arktic06

4 ай бұрын

@@hyun-ki_hei I’ve come back from enough 10-2 situations to know that you can offset bad teammates. Just play better 🤷

@hyun-ki_hei

4 ай бұрын

@Arktic06 10-2 overall scoreline sounds like heaven. I was referring each lane: -troll pick top lane being 0/10/2 vs Darius - crippled jungler never on time to objectives and focusing on kills and pointless invading only but dying instead. - bot lane sharing 0/20 vs samira rakan and when I ask "what are you doing? " they reply "I'm doing my own thing" Then I put up ff vote and they put no because they're people with your mindset that think enemy team will just DC or some blessing will come from heaven and grant a miracle to win.

I agree to ff nowadays, but only if the enemy team didn’t tell us in all chat to do so

no, never, never an option

It's so funny because I have that nike commercial next to the vid saying "just do it"...

Reported for Negative Attitude

I started playing League back in Beta, but coming from a StarCraft background I was always confused by people hating the idea of surrendering. Sometimes you need to save your mental energy for the next game. If I have 3 hours to play and there are 2 people 0/5 and the other team is just smashing me I would rather save my energy for a good game than to slog through a hour long game I still lose and could have played 1 or 2 more games during that same time frame. This is all coming from the StarCraft mind set where you can have some crazy battle that just lose you the game instantly and you could play on, but most of the top tier players don't continue playing unless it is match 7 of a best of 7. Not worth the mental exhaustion in my book.

Love to see my boi Bobby Blaber getting some love on the channel

There's nothing wrong with giving up

THE fact that dota 2 got no surrender option if u solo, u have to bear the loss and see it

I heavily disagree with this take. I have won almost every single game that people have tried to ff at 15, and sometimes I'm playing with friends and a random just decides to ff for absolutely no reason other than they just played bad and don't wanna play unless they're carrying. This is VERY COMMON. People think that if they're not the one carrying, they don't wanna win that game, and that's unfair to the other people who DO wanna win. It's okay to be carried guys, it's not gonna hurt you. Let others enjoy the game, you should know by now that you are queueing into a game that may or may not go well for you, that on average lasts 20-30 mins, so why would you queue if you DON'T wanna play?

In rts playing until you’re completely defeated (your last units death) is considered toxic, including tournaments

Nah i aint surrending. I hate that mentality personally. Like you can lose early and still win. It may take longer and that guy might hate "being held hostage" but i got on the game to play it. I picked that champion to play them that game. If i surrender i dont get that fulfillment. Its not toxic for players wanting to play the game

That's ironic, In Sea Dota, if one Says Good game, it will turn into a recreation of the fight scene between Goku and Frieza.

Theres a ton of the slippery slope fallacy in this cs, that if you ff lost games you’ll start to ff winnable games, which is kinda just the opposite issue of surrendering with every vote. You’re treating it as an absolute instead of judging on a case by case basis if the likelihood of winning any one game is worth more than the potential gain of a new one. Look at the game, everything happening in it, then make that judgment call yourself. It’s a vote for a reason, so everyone can exercise their judgement. Absolutes are usually dumb, and both absolutes on this one seem especially so to me

in cs2 after a teammate abandons or gets banned for teamkilling, then you have the option to surrender. I'd suggest that if just one player votes yes then you surrender. that would make sense

This is my new nickname in LoL. Always Surrender.

Never Give Up Never Surrender .

if someone saying saying "gg end" on Dota pub at SEA, they means "bring it on shitheads, we're gonna make this 2hrs game! NEVER GIVEUP"

in valorant its worth because even if you lose you may still win a few more rounds and lessen the loss impact on your rank points.

@kidsaysmoo

4 ай бұрын

Not worth. You lose a few more RR but get to go next and start your next game sooner. If you win you will more than make up your loss. Vs if you stick it out, now you lose RR still and haven’t been able to get into another game to gain it back. Unless you are playing 6+ hours a day, you should be surrendering when down big.

@yarincool1237

4 ай бұрын

as someone that plays 1-3 games every session and not 5+, its worth.@@kidsaysmoo

So voting no gives me a 3% higher chance of winning the game? Thats pretty significant The amount of low elo people that try and ff super winable games is insane.

@NUSensei

4 ай бұрын

The data is incorrectly framed. The quote is explaining why Riot removed the unanimous FF15 early surrender. FF20 requires only 4 votes, but FF15 was introduced but required all 5 voted. The data shows that when games were so bad that 4 voted at 15, the outcome rarely changed by 20. What Dimitri did not factor was the frequency of FF15 votes and how 3-2 or fewer votes reversed the outcome of the game, which undoubtedly would be far more frequent than a 4-1 vote. If Dimitri was able to show data that reflects an absurdly high loss rate after a failed vote (which is NOT 4-1 currently, as that is a successful vote), he might have a case against the Never Surrender mentality. He does not present evidence for it.