I knew when I made this series that there would be those that would say it was an unfair comparison and in a way they are right, but the reason that this series had to be made is that many people believe that many keyboards do sound as good as a piano. I hear sales people from coast to coast telling customers that the keyboards they are selling sound as good or better than a concert grand and that is just not true.

@Alan_Chapman

4 жыл бұрын

Digital pianos have pretty much reached parity with sounding indistinguishable to a recorded piano. Hearing them in person obviously no match for the real thing, especially in a setting with good acoustics.

@Alan_Chapman

4 жыл бұрын

Also, I don’t know about the new CP88, but the CP4 that precedes it allows you to customize the piano sound quite a bit. The damper resonance is an insertion effect and when you dial the dry

@13benroberts

4 жыл бұрын

Few digital pianos have full digital samples in them. They take up huge amounts of ROM and the best digitally sampled pianos are usually in the higher end digital pianos or are samples used with DAW's on a computer. I have a Bosendorfer digitally sampled piano on my computer which I access by connecting it to my Yamaha Genos. The digitally sampled Bosendorfer is vastly superior to the CFX sample in my Genos or to any other digital keyboard I have owned. I am richly inspired by this digitally sampled Bosendorfer over anything I have ever tried on any digital keyboard/piano. It makes a huge difference into what kind of speaker system you run your digitally sampled piano. I use only Bose systems. I wish you had described how you are connecting your CP88, and what microphone/s you are using to pick up your Steinway in this recording. Regardless, this was an extremely excellent comparison which I enjoyed immensely.

@wrassmussen

4 жыл бұрын

What is the title of the Erik Satie composition that you start playing at 11:54 in the video?

@pierredelecto9385

4 жыл бұрын

Never believe a salesman.

Of course, it is not the same, but for most people (like myself) a real grand piano is just impossible to own so a CP88 or alike is one of the better options to have and enjoy. Thanks for your work!

@EricLaermans

3 жыл бұрын

Why spend 160.000€ or more on a grand piano if spending around 2.000€ on a stage piano can give you the exact sound of grand piano or even better. Over the years, which was mentioned in the video, some grand pianos start deteriorating. That is not gonna happen with your Yamaha CP, unless you spill some soda over it 😀.

@julianpletl3061

3 жыл бұрын

@@EricLaermans I'm playing both. I would never give away my acoustic piano. I only use my digital when I don't want to disturb everyone with the noise. The feeling with all the vibrations and Volume in the sound is not comparable to digital pianos.

*Moves into a studio apartment* Gosh, I need a grand piano because there's NO WAY I'm getting an electric that'll be as good. *Proceeds to live under said new piano*

Well played and said. Excellent piano demonstation A++

1 note on the "real" piano was enough. Not even close.

@jacobbelcher3512

4 жыл бұрын

I know. They both sound great, but the keyboard just isn't the same.

@jacobbelcher3512

4 жыл бұрын

Keyboards are fun for having different sounds, but I think that if you're wanting to have the piano sound you just oughta go with an actual piano.

@Guidoqq

4 жыл бұрын

It is, what a good copy is: A copy.

@aftereffects00

4 жыл бұрын

Keyboard just like a 'toy'

@GertoHeupink

4 жыл бұрын

Totally agree. But that said there are better electronic piano VST's than this Yamaha CP88

I guess that I would not even had known if I hadn't listened to your video. What a great comparison. Thanks for the lesson.

By the way. I think you have the absolute best unit comparisons on KZread. You do not mince words. Great job, IMHO.

I love these comparisons between digital and acoustic

I enjoy these videos so much! I’m one of those guys who loves to get into the most microscopic details of instruments. The comparisons are like science experiments in tone. We all knew from the gate how the real piano would crush the CP88 but I just had to hear the differences in resonance, tone, blending, etc. I watched this twice and even headed down to my local Sam Ash to try a CP 88. Keep the videos coming. Sending kudos from Texas.

@ThePianoforever

4 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the channel.

14:01 "it's not even close" face 😬

Here's a fun experiment. Throw a Roland RD-1000 and Korg SG-1D from 1986 into the comparison just to see how far we have come with electronic piano sounds.

@dvamateur

4 жыл бұрын

I'll take the RD-1000 brand new. Where can I buy?

@bol7

4 жыл бұрын

I remember Elton John played RD-1000 at the stadium concert. Every note he played sounded like smashing glass. You know he is a extraordinarily pianist, it was so harsh and annoying digital machine.

@sub-jec-tiv

3 жыл бұрын

M1 Piano? 😂

The keyboard does sound OK, nice even The piano sounds amazing so rich and full, perhaps even grand.

The grand piano sounds like heaven

First, I'm amazed at the breadth of your understanding, your talent, and your ability to express yourself. That is a dynamite combination, for sure. Very nicely done. I like that you seem very insightful and intelligent, yet without a single speck of ego. That is rare, James, and you should be proud of yourself. What I found most interesting in this video is that the Steinway D absolutely killed the Yamaha in the Satie/Debussy, classical stuff, but the pop chord progressions actually sounded better, to my ear, on the Yamaha. This could be because there is less sympathetic resonance. Classical things are written to take advantage of that, while pop stuff is not, in fact the dissonance from that detracts from the overall sound, probably because in that milieu, there are many instruments competing in the same sonic space. When you speak of 'soaring', (if we ignore the sympathetic resonation) I think what you are hearing is a large difference in timbre. The overtones on the D, for instance, are quite prominent. Not that it is 'trebly-er', as much as there are high overtones more prominent on the D (which is why I like the Steinways in general). But there is no question, at least in this comparison, that the D has a much more open, sweeter, beautiful sound, and the Yamaha has a somewhat muted, covered-up, claustrophobic feel by comparison. It is my experience, however, that there are digital pianos that are much, much, better than this one, at least in my opinion. This comparison is a little bit skewed because the Steinway is louder (on the recording) than the Yamaha, which favors the Steinway. Anyone who sold stereos in the 90's knows that A/B comparisons always favor the louder speaker rather than the more-accurate speaker, and they sold a lot of 'louder' speakers due to that phenomenon-we interpret louder as better, subconsciously.

@CIRCADES

3 жыл бұрын

Which stage piano would you recommend then as an alternative to the CP88?

yes, and I love Sati... the clean simplicity always amazes me! Your channel grows on me! Thank you! 🤭

I totally agree. Nothing beats the thunderous sounds of a concert grand! The electronic stuff does shave its place at home or in a smaller venue. It’s not easy to replicate the touch of a real piano with an electronic instrument. Great face off of two different yet similar instruments. Thanks!

I used to own a Yamaha U1 upright acoustic back in the eighties. I now have a Kawai MP11SE which is a fabulous instrument and it sounds great, but it still can't beat the real thing. Fond memories of that U1...

I can’t play, but my ears work and I love the sound of a real acoustic piano. I understand the convenience of an electric keyboard, but it just can’t duplicate the gorgeous acoustic sounds! I learn so much from you!

@getulioprates

4 жыл бұрын

And actually, the acoustic suffered a little bit with the transportation, as he said early in the video. But the treble notes sustain are amazing, anyway, compared to the electronic copies, that are so bright, so clean that has no resonance. They are improving it. To simulate perfectly an acoustic piano you must have: the ideal speakers, (as someone said before), the correct default gain (volume), unprocessed sample, or only the eq correction to match the acoustic with the sound produced by the speaker in the default volume, as I said before, (actually vice-versa) to match the electronic with the natural sound)..

Interesting fun to learn Thank you !

I didn't know that you got your own recording studio.. I hope it all works out for you. You are a good man and gifted.

Great review James. I was listening on an iPad, but I could hear a much richer, full bodied sound from the Steinway, it also maybe because of the sympathetic resonance , sounded more colorful on the Steinway. I currently own a Yamaha Clavinova CVP 701, it has the CFX grand piano sample and a Bosendorfer grand sample, they are super articulated samples, I would be interested to hear it up against the CP 88:and an Acoustic grand. Thank you for another interesting video 😄

VERY educational! Thank you!

Thank you. I do enjoy your videos. Could you do a video that shows the manufacturing process for collecting the acoustic piano samples and incorporating them in the keyboard electronics? I would find that very interesting.

The best thing about digital is ... the tuning doesn’t go poopy Most real pianos are not maintained. So digital in tune ... beats lack of real piano If I were playing classical concerts I would feel differently

"its actually pretty easy to tune your own piano" I am not sure If I agree - but would love to know how :)

Great idea and video! :)

Great video. Still miss my kurzweil that had excellent CP70 and CP80 samples.

In the final analysis the "organic" piano, if I may say, is more soul-satisfying than the electronic keyboard. Like comparing the taste of sugar to saccharin. While saccharin may indeed taste sweet -- it's not quite there -- its taste is not quite 100% true to the original. I hope the analogy works for you.

@deanroddey2881

4 жыл бұрын

@@gcampagn Yeh, it's like the difference between an amplifier emulator and a real tube amp for guitarists. I'd never, ever use an emulator if I had the option to pick up a few nice tube amps and could crank them up. But, unfortunately, I'd get kicked out out my apartment within minutes if I did. So you do what you have to do.

@EricLaermans

3 жыл бұрын

Why spend over 100grand on saccharine.

Great video in showcasing live vs processed. A part of the sound difference is that the Steinway has a natural reverb with the air and the enclosure vs the straight tone of the CP88. However if you add a little reverb and chorus to the CP88, you can get closer sounding results. Still, nothing beats the real deal.

Absolutely,nothing plays like the real acoustic piano!! Thank you again for the great videos.. You are such a fantastic player… ✌️👍Mario

Your videos are excellent! Sound tests by an actual pianist is better than a salesman or mfg rep. Thanks for your work here.

What a beautiful instrument! Cool video. You look like the actor younger Stephen Goeffrey Miller!

Absolutely fantastic sound in the Grand. I have no space for one in my flat but man... hopefully one day I will both have the skills and a room in size worthy enough for one. This video made me apply for piano courses

Great vid. Would Love a CP88 vs CF3 comparison!!

Grand piano sound is amazing, it’s just difficult to record at most household. The digital piano is perfect for recording and portability. So the purposes are different between the two. Loves your KZread videos, and mostly agree with all your comments. Keep it up and thanks for doing this. I hope you have Yamaha P515 with grand piano comparison. My be you did, I just haven’t found it yet.

Thank you for all of the comparisons on the many models in your playlists. Coming from a church background perspective, many times it comes down to the cost of things. I can agree that there's still a difference between an electronic keyboard (delay, ambiance) and a string piano, so a purchase may have a lot to do with the cost of purchasing and ownership. I have a studio piano and a keyboard, but I usually defer to the studio when I play. For portability, nothing like the keyboard. We're having the same discussion about virtual pipe organ samples and a real pipe organ, but for practicing needs and some churches needs, a virtual pipe organ program connected to a console, that isn't going to require tuning, may make a difference. It's all about the situation: personally, I'd love to have a Steinway.

Chocolatey might be one adverb...hehehe. Thanks, for the comparison, and your playing! You're answering questions I didn't know I had. Now, I just wonder how long it would take for me, at nearly sixty, to learn enough, and whether I would with my ADD.... But, I do enjoy your videos! Thanks, again!

👍👍yeah lots of differences initially I wouldn't really perceive, now I do! Thanks!

I’m using a Kawai VPC1 with VSL D-274 and CFX sample libraries. Trying to blur these lines a little bit.

Thanks for the videos I've watched quite a few. I'd like to here your opinion and a comparison with a Yamaha CSP 170.

The advantage of the keyboard...doesn't need expensive tuning like a reg ular piano.

Such a huge emotional difference for me. The piece on the CP didn't touch me, but on the D -wow.

Great comparison and nice explanation , I'm not a professional keyboard player, but this comparison is really easy to understand for all those ones that has good ears ( and i still have 2 working ears). I love your REAL PIANO, made of hood, metal and strings..... unfortunately I dont have any, and anyway my skill level don't deserve a so beautifull piano.

Some of the sounds on a keyboard are determined by the sound system you are using for reproducing the sounds. The system can make a huge difference in what you hear. I still like your demo. waiting for your next one.

Great videos man could you please text me what the name of the music you are playing at the beginning? Thank you in advance

James, is there a reason that you never test/use a Yamaha Clavinova? Some of those CVP's have brilliant sound.

@tomschaffner9704

4 жыл бұрын

I have a cvp 409. Sounds amazing.🎹🎹

Idk if you use VST’s but I would love to hear you do a comparison of Keyscape, Ravenscroft or Keysuite vs your Steinway

@texacomann

4 жыл бұрын

You still can't believe it!

Digital Piano recorded one key at the time with different velocity. The sound result is too clean because it didn't capture the full resonance at the time of recording.

@benjwgarner

3 жыл бұрын

Some Yamaha digital pianos simulate sympathetic resonance, but they intentionally left that feature out of the CP88 to try to force musicians to buy both a CP88 and another model.

4:50, guys

But you can not replace the physical feeling with elc. keyboard when you play the grand piano .

James, it would be interesting to compare the CP88 with Native Instruments NOIRE. It is a sample of Nils Frahm’s concert grand, which is a YAMAHA CFX 9'. NOIRE has a regular sample as well as a sample of his piano with felt placed on the hammers.

Interesting that you found that one key was too bright and punchy. I have a P125 using CXF Grand voicing and that same note has the same problem, so I guess it is a problem in the sampling. I just assumed it was my poor playing.

Just dropping by as see you like to compare pianos. Any feelings on Petrof? I was looking at a used Mark V and sounded/felt really sweet. Not in the "Bosendorfer" league but wanted an opinion vs. say a Yamaha or Kawai?

Thanks my friend.

One way to test sympathetic resonance is to press down a key, not hard enough for the note to sound, hold it, then play the note an octave higher. When you let go of the higher note and keep down the lower note, you should hear the higher note in the lower string. That will work on your Steinway. Does it work on your Yamaha?

I’ve noticed this with a Clavanova and a Kurzweil: when they are playing as pianos, the farther you are from them, the less they sound like acoustic pianos and more like tinty electronic instruments.

Good job on the Satie!

Do you have any more information available for the first test song on this video you composed?

Such a great speaker. Smooth and well prepared

@Bgoods

4 жыл бұрын

agreed.

what do you think about the SOUND on the concert grand piano on the MOTIF-XF8

This is really great, thank you. Indeed all of you videos have been extremely helpful and interesting. I love your attention to detail. Keep up the good work and I'll keep watching.

@ThePianoforever

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Great video. It will never be possible to fully duplicate with super high fidelity an acoustic piano with a digital system. The best way to compare would be to use spectrum analysis and look at power spectral densities of each instrument using FFT analysis. Here you would be able to see the frequency content and respective power in each frequency bin. I think it has more to do with the fact that the wood , strings, and the frame have a very complex spectra when they vibrate. A speaker will not resonate like a piece of wood or metal. The mechanical resonance of a piano sounds much nicer that a digitally reproduced response. This is why wood selection and other materials make each acoustic piano a little difference.

Cp88 vs Korg Grandstage? Sound? Action?

Bought a wonderful Kawai for a studio. Really great

How does the sound of Pianoteq compare to the sound of a real piano?

Could you do a comparison of the sound of the N3 and N3X as well as any other differences between them? If so that’d be fantastic! Keep up the awesome videos man😁

@ThePianoforever

4 жыл бұрын

Still hoping that Yamaha will start loaning me product to review.

I suspect that adding damper resonance and a bit of reverb to the digital keyboard would allow you to get closer to the acoustic. Also not mentioned here is the speaker/amplifier your are using. When comparing the keyboard to an acoustic instrument, the speaker has a huge impact, especially when you talk about how you "feel" the low end.

@ThePianoforever

4 жыл бұрын

Both were recorded in mono using the very same equipment I use for all my recordings.

@gerardvila4685

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThePianoforever I remember a high-end loudspeaker maker, Cabasse, claimed that people couldn't tell a real Cello (behind a screen) apart from a cello recording played through their speakers (behind the same screen). So maybe if you spent, say, the price of a good upright on your amps and speakers (perhaps 5000-7000 $), you might get a sound a bit closer to a concert grand? Not obvious because a piano is acoustically very complex, and anyway I don't have that kind of money to throw around, but what do you think?

@13benroberts

4 жыл бұрын

@@gerardvila4685 a good speaker system will only amply the inferior sound of the CP88 as it is not a full spectrum sample to begin with of a CFX or any other grand piano.

Hey this was a great comparison but I think you should redo this with the Yamaha CFX and the N3X. I think that would be the closest comparison between a "digital" and an acoustic piano.

Your smile at 14 minutes says it all..!!

I have a korg Japanese digital piano, bought it four months ago, when the volume is soft, it's amazing, but when it's volume increases, something terribly goes wrong. Notes are harsh and blunt. I now practice on it at soft volume and it's enjoyable to play it

@zackeryhardy9504

4 жыл бұрын

it has to do with the speaker diameter. your keyboard most likely has 2 or four 6 inch speakers. a piano has between a 4 foot and a 8 foot speaker. think about how mych distortion you get when you play earbuds loud vs a full sterio system. to come even close to a real piano in sound you will need a 4 or 6 foot speaker. the one other difference is the lack of overtones in a digital piano.

@sunilmendes536

4 жыл бұрын

I guess your right. Yesterday I played on my recently bought friends accoustic piano KAWAI and it's really great. I guess I'll invest in a moderately priced accoustic piano now

thank you so much

Would you make a comparison with The Eighty Eight Ensemble synth?

The Yamaha CP sounds more flat than the Steinway which on the other side sounds much more rich. However, Yamaha is a great digital alternative for gigs, great keyboard action with pretty good sound. I believe Nord has a more authentic character in their sounds though, but it depends what's important to you. I think you settled this debate for good! Great review :-)

@EricLaermans

3 жыл бұрын

Kjell Magne Lauritzen Nord comes with some loose knobs and sliders not functioning. If that is top of the market, my name is Santa 😊.

@CIRCADES

3 жыл бұрын

I don't like Nord Piano and Stage actions... CP88 feels very good

@libertylizard_

2 жыл бұрын

Subjective but yes, a great many Pianists (professional) don't like Nord. That however, is not the companies market. They make performance boards for Keyboardists and you'll find them commonly there. For now you have a superior action (with a lot of added weight) in the Mp11se. Or you have the very much lighter CP88 with a few missing features but also a great performer - in a much much easier to move package. P515 falls into the tier list but again, isn't quite as mobile. So if you are studio based entirely Kawai, if you are gigging CP. Nord....lol. Just don't bother.

I bought an older stage performance Yamaha S90es, I want to connect it to an Android device... do I have to update the USB driver on the keyboard you think?

Hello..Can you make a review about the Dexibel Vivo S9 and make a comparison with the original piano sound ?

Ever tried reviewing the Garritan Abbey Road CFX?

Do the internal speakers on a digital keyboard compromise the sampled sound? If so would external ones help?

@ThePianoforever

4 жыл бұрын

The CP88 is a stage piano, meaning it has no internal speakers, but some lower end instruments have speakers that are less than ideal. I use the Roland KC-350 amplifiers here at the studio and have found them to be great for keyboards.

have you ever had a chance to test out pianoteq and compare it to an acoustic piano?

Nice video ! What's the piece you're playing at 4'52 ?

I agree with you that there is a major difference between the two of them. on the other end I never saw someone bringing in a keyboard in the music hall an played a classical piece on it. That is simply said not wisely. It doesn’t sounds but it is a great instrument for playing lots of other stuf and handy if you want to play some music ten high in your small room. Easier to bring up a keyboard there then a grand piano. 🙂 But I got your point.

The very word Sample should be a clue. The real thing vs. the approximation. Now we are getting real good but to think you are going to replace a concert grand. But you have to keep it real folks. It is application. I will never own a concert grand ever! That CP88 maybe, just maybe. Wow you are in Tennessee???? I thought you were an L.A. person. I am close to Nashville myself. Are you close by Nashville? Your Piano videos are most informative. I learn allot. I am a music buff from too long ago. Would love to play as well as you do. Not in this universe though. But none the less, I can dream can't I? Keep up the great work!

@ThePianoforever

4 жыл бұрын

I travel the country when I am not at the studio. I am presently in the north west recording more videos.

You are right. Yamaha CP is designed to be played with drums, guitars, vocals and lots of noises.

What's the Satie's piece called?

when will you review pianoteq?

Listening with headphones (Sony) tells you right away that the keyboard is NOT ANYTHING compared to the real piano. I don't buy keyboards because of the piano sounds, anyways. Just bought a Yamaha Montage and bought it for its strings and pipe organ sounds. Nothing better (in its price range that is, because the Yamaha Genesis is awesome, but won't spend $5,000 for a keyboard, for sure). Thank you for taking the time for your demonstrations. So much appreciated!

Looking a bit Bowie 1977 with that jacket sir

Can you compare piano of Casio sk1 with steinway? Thanks!

One of the first people outside of PTG who actually knows something about pianos

One to One!!! SUPERB!!!

Arrgh I can't figure out which pop tune that is at 21:25.. what is iT!!? Great video thanks! I own a a CP88 and have been gigging with it three days a week for close to a year now. And it has been disappointing! Your word "sterile" kinda sums it up. I like the NI Noire better. Keyscape also great. On my CP88 certain notes seem to leap out. Two notes for sure pop out louder than the rest (Eb5 and Gb5.. same for you or no?). A singer I was working with first alerted me to the uneven key volumes. Made it hard to play lounge piano because you always had to remember to hit those notes softer than the rest or else people in the bar would stop their conversations and look over lol. Took it back the store to see if there's a mechanical issue. Waiting to hear back. But before that I actually went out and bought a parametric EQ and outboard compressor. And a rack case to put it all in. Then I used it to carve out the 800 Hz to tame those two notes. The onboard EQ just doesn't do the job in my opinion. After all that I asked myself.. why the heck am I working so hard to get the CP88 to sound good? Might just try to return it. I'm a lifelong Roland fan, and this Yamaha has not been a win for me. Having a laptop on my gigs would be the best but I'm not quite ready to use a computer as my sound source just yet. Somebody could spill a drink on it or walk out with it or knock it over. Plus having a laptop onstage is distracting and requires extra cables. Hard drive could crash or software updates could glitch out who knows. I wish there was a high quality gigging keyboard with great piano sounds!! Great video thanks for sharing. Sorry for the long response but I thought you might like to hear about my experience with the CP88. Your assessment of sterile sound source "resonates" with me. Pun intended.

Hey James, I hope you still read comments on older videos. I'll be moving to a small apartment soon and need to replace an old Steinway upright with a stage piano. I was pretty set on buying the P515 or the CP88, but after watching this video I'm not so sure anymore. You said there are other stage pianos who do better in terms of key action and string resonance than this one. Any recommendations for stage pianos in a similar price range? I'm looking for something that sounds and especially FEELS natural, sound wise I liked the CPX Grand and the Bösendorfer on the CP88 and the p515.

@ThePianoforever

2 жыл бұрын

My favorite in that price range is the P515.

I think the overtones and undertones are under the threshold to record them. The Yamaha is pretty, accurate not so much. You are right, the sustain with full rich resonance is just missing! The additive effect sound is off too. The problem I also have with digital organs.

@ThePianoforever The best way to show sympathetic resonance is to: While standing up... hold the damper pedal, strike a key, then quickly mute the string(s) with your finger. You will then hear the sympathetic resonance on it's own. You will want to have your fingers an inch away from the string(s) that are being played before you strike the key so you can mute it as fast as possible.

What is the somber piece of music you played at 14:04? it's beautiful

Thank you 😄

The sampling in the keyboard is good, but its the whole physical action of the sound leaving the strings, soundboard and wood into the air that gives that big emotion. Most digitals cannot capture the emotion.P.S James.. i believe you !

Hi Pawel, which keyboard is better? The NWX on the P515 or the NW-GH on the CP88? World you say, That the P-515 is a professional Piano? Which piano is better in your opinion?

Pls make video of comparing it with digital piano ,because digital piano are not compact for live gig but is there any digital keyboards which have same weighted keys as digital piano

I’d love to hear the Steinway D compared to the dexibel s7 or s9

thank you ... agent smith !