Hey everybody! To clarify, the digital piano speakers were muted for the test. All three pianos were coming through the DAW / studio monitors at the same volume, and an effort was made to select settings that neutralized any differences in ambience and touch curve behaviors. One of our regular and respected commenters on the channel made the good point that this wasn't specified in the video, so we thought it best to state it here :)

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@zvelekva If you listen to recordings of an actual Steinway D or Yamaha CFX, you will realize they sound far more beautiful and smooth than the sound produced by this VSL + NV5 keyboard combo. The most likely reason is that the NV5 is being used here as a MIDI controller, and it is definitely not doing a very good job in mapping the velocities of those vst pianos. If you listen to other KZread players using VSL, you will see they produce a beautiful sound with smooth transitions and the notes don't sound harsh and clunky, as in this video. The most likely reason is: they may be using a professional MIDI controller, or they have some type of MIDI velocity mapping software. This is one of the weak points of vst pianos: the synergy needed between MIDI controller and vst piano engine. It doesn't matter if you are a great pianist, you can't play properly with a mismatched velocity curve. VSL may have 100 dynamic velocity levels, but the question is: is your MIDI controller really hitting the exact velocity per note needed to produce a beautiful sound, the way it was intended by VSL? This is like assembling a computer using different parts that don't work well with each other. Kawai, on the other hand, has adjusted the MIDI velocities and sound engine just for that "MIDI controller" (the keyboard of the piano). Everything has been already debugged at the factory by Kawai expert technicians. My Yamaha digital piano sounds much better using its built-in sample for that same reason. But one thing I can notice right away: the VSL Steinway D or CFX samples in this video sound as if the MIDI controller had the velocity curve cranked up or too narrow. The poor Steinway D has been rendered here not better than the "German D" Steinway on the Korg Krome. There is an obvious problem, despite Stu's best efforts. I have also made best efforts in making my vst pianos sound great, and I have never achieved it. So, maybe there is something else to tweak. But one way or the other, two things are sure: recordings of Steinway D and CFX show they sound way better than this digital representation, being smooth and with color, and also that there are VSL recordings that have managed, somehow, to make justice to those VSL pianos. This video, despite Stu best efforts at the moment, is not delivering that sound. The Kawai sample may be not as detailed from the factory, but it is using "the right shoes" (the keyboard MIDI velocities are properly mapped). It is better to use cheap clothes that fit your body, than expensive clothes that are baggy or too tight. So, at least in my personal experience with digital pianos controlling vst pianos, the answer is: yes, there is a significant difference in dynamic CONTROL... you have no good control of the vst sample with a general purpose MIDI controller. You would need a professional MIDI controller and a dedicated MIDI velocity mapping software if you really want to have dynamic control over your vst piano. Otherwise, you are painting with a wide brush, and the painting will not be very good.

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@zvelekva I just wanted to state once again the basic problem here: Both the Steinway D and Yamaha CFX are heavily misrepresented in this video. If you listen to recordings here on KZread of the real acoustic instruments, they don't sound like in this video at all. In addition, other videos on KZread of the VSL Steinway or CFX sound beautiful, not like in this comparison. Even Stu's own previous videos playing those vst pianos using his Roland RD2000 as a MIDI controller sound way better than in this video. There is no argument whatsoever that this video is a misrepresentation of the sound of VSL pianos. For that reason, although the video is not completely about which piano sounds better, it is mentioned twice, and the way the VSL samples were presented would invalidate the comparison. Going back to the MIDI velocity issue: Is the NV5 at fault? Is the NV5 upright action not capable of producing the proper MIDI output? Something else? The NV5 is not a dedicated professional MIDI controller. It is a digital piano with an upright piano action. How accurate is it as a MIDI controller for vst pianos? We don't know, and Kawai does not say it should be used as a MIDI controller either. How many samples does the NV5 have? Putting any number is just guessing. Digital pianos typically have a type of memory called "flash", different from the .wav files stored in a computer hard drive (which is what is used in vst pianos). Flash memory is expensive to implement, which is why digital pianos don't have very large samples. Even the NV10S that you are about to receive DOES NOT have a true Kawai SK-EX sample: Kawai chops the note after the initial attack to save memory. The Harmonic Imaging XL (Extra Large) is a bit better than the HI because it extends the attack portion of the note, but still chops it, then the rest (decay) is just FAKE sound digitally made up. The reverb is fake, the sympathetic resonance is fake, and all the extra sounds are fake, or "modeled". But the NV5 is a product that has been created to work flawlessly: everything has been maximized to work as good as possible at the factory, despite the shortcomings of the sample. Most vst pianos come with some general MIDI velocity curves that will give you a bit of control over the samples, but you will need to be able to tweak each note individually. You will need some type of application that allows you to adjust the MIDI velocity of each note. This will need to be done for each vst piano individually. When you open a vst piano inside a DAW, you have access to MIDI modifiers. You can control the sample smoothness by adding or subtracting points to the keyboard input. Ideally, you should be able to modify each MIDI impulse the keyboard sends to each individual note and adjust it as needed. The NV5 has a specific velocity touch that Stu is using in this video. That specific velocity touch can typically be changed in most digital pianos. For example, I can change my Touch Settings from 0 to 127, and make my CFX piano sample sound classical smooth or T-shirt-Hard-Rock harsh... just with adding or subtracting points. I can also do the same with my vst pianos, both via my digital piano or the MIDI modifiers in my DAW. Stu says he made a best effort in setting these vst pianos to sound best... well, his best efforts are not working in this video. Even his Roland RD2000 made much more justice to the same samples... could it be an NV5 issue using its default settings? For that reason, this video cannot be used to make statements about the sounds of these specific models. They are misrepresented, in favor of the Kawai, because the Kawai sample is not suffering from MIDI velocity mismatches, since it is adjusted with precision at the factory by Kawai technicians to sound its best. By the way, you could also mess up the Kawai sample if you wanted. If you change the MIDI velocity settings in your NV10S and raise the points high enough, your NV10S will sound awfully harsh too.

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@zvelekva Hello again. I just wanted to add a few comments to the topic of dynamic control of a vst piano in general and your question regarding the difference in dynamic control between the SK-EX sample and the VSL sample. This should apply to any MIDI controller, including the NV10S used as such. I will take my own digital piano as as example. I just opened in Cubase a MIDI track and watched the MIDI Fader tab, which is giving me a reading of the MIDI values generated by my piano: When I play soft passages, the velocities are located in the 25-60 range mainly. If I start playing with octaves, the numbers raise to 75. Playing those same octaves but rather powerful raises the number to 100. Very hard raises to keyboard to 110. I have to basically hit the keyboard insanely hard to hit 127. But the question is: did I really hit every number in that range? And even if I did, do I have that type of control in my fingers to generate 127 levels of pressure? How many velocity levels can you realistically hit in a piano? Imagine you were tapping on a table with your finger: how many different levels of tapping force can you realistically measure? Even further: how many levels of tapping force can you precisely control with your fingers? I think the number is quite modest. Can you realistically produce 127 levels of force with your fingers on a piano key? I think 10 levels of force is, realistically, quite high. Unless you are a robot. Furthermore, what is the difference in piano sound between, let's say, force level 98 and force level 99? Can you even notice the difference on a piano if you had a robot to accurately produce 127 levels of force? I think you could very well have a modest Kawai SK-EX sample with 6 velocities and still do great. Going back to my example with my digital piano: I noticed that the MIDI velocities are unstable. I can't produce 127 levels of velocity with my fingers using my piano. I can make the piano trigger values in several zones of the range of [0,127], but that doesn't mean that I can accurately produce, let's say, velocity value #64 if you ask me, or velocity value #73. A robot can do that I guess, but not a person. More realistically, I can produce force values that will consistently fall in a few intervals, for example: [0,25], [26,60], [61,75], [76,100]... basically 4 dynamic levels... which is why a digital piano with 4 layers is more than adequate for most situations. And once again, even if you were able to produce with absolute accuracy (you won't) every single force value between 0-127, the sample #74 and #75 (to give an example) as produced by a robot, will not be have a discernible difference. Think of a real piano: can you extract from a single key 127 different sounds in both level and tonality? To finish this comment: I can almost guarantee that, once you play with a vst piano for a while, you will realize that it is not a great idea. Unless you want to spend the time and effort designing the perfect velocity curve that the Kawai technicians created for that Kawai sample, you will likely abandon your vst piano and stick to your Kawai sample. I think vst pianos are better left for recording and playing back MIDI tracks that you could possibly adjust in a DAW... but for live performing in a digital piano, use its built-in sample.

@Zoco101

2 жыл бұрын

@@Instrumental-Covers many years ago I had a cheap Yamaha DP which I used for travelling. It lacked proper weighted keys, and the tones were very poor. (But nothing was lighter in those days.) I also had a Yamaha expander sound box. It might have been the EMT1. I could connect them together with a MIDI legacy cable, and thus use the nicer piano tones on the box, but I noticed that the touch sensitivity went a bit strange. I could not find a very pleasing touch sensitivity on the DP for controlling the tones on the box. I suspect that you've been discussing a similar problem, only on a grander scale.

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@zvelekva I have played with both Pianoteq 4 and Pianoteq 7. To me, they sound fake, particularly in the upper harmonics of each note. I think the whole Pianoteq reputation of being more "organic" started about 10 years ago when multi-sample engines were not using a lot of modeling and transitions were more obvious. I wouldn't waste my time with Pianoteq, especially if you value an authentic tone. Kawai digital pianos don't have exactly a full Kawai sample, but at least it is based on a real piano. Pianoteq is complete simulation. Nowadays, the best option is to use a digital piano like the NV10S. Let Kawai do the velocity curve hard work for you, and don't bother with VSL for actual live playing. If you want to record an album and know how to tweak MIDI and use a DAW, then buy VSL. That would be my suggestion. Enjoy your new Kawai!

Talk about a dynamic duo! Annie has a killer beautiful voice. Of course, Stu's piano chops are second to none. Excellent video, fun to listen.

The warm, beautiful, and oh so musical sound of a well voiced Kawai. I recognized it instantly. I may not own an SK-EX but I can assure you, after carefully voicing and and regulating my Kawai K300, not a day goes by that she doesn't touch my soul. I bought her used in January 2020. A childhood dream fulfilled and the best purchase I've ever made.

@glennallen4634

2 жыл бұрын

Kawai

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@glennallen4634 Are all Kawai pianos warm? One of the very few Kawai piano libraries out there is the "Kawai-EX Pro" by Acoustic Samples. They describe the piano this way, "The Kawai-EX Pro sample Library is a fabulous, powerful and bright 9-foot (276cm) KAWAI EX concert grand piano that used to be in the Kennedy Center in Washington DC." Notice they used the adjective "bright". Is "bright" a synonym of "bad" and "warm" a synonym of "good"? I would also like to hear your description of what it means to be "warm". By the way, the samples of the VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX are being misrepresented in this video, most likely due to the MIDI velocity curve used. If you are familiar with vst pianos, you know you can render anyone of them terribly harsh and lacking expression by simply not dialing in the proper velocity curve. You can check that by listening to the same pianos in other videos... including Stu's own previous videos, where he didn't feature his favorite Kawai for comparison.

@Instrumental-Covers

Жыл бұрын

@Patrick Bai Hello Patrick, it was a rhetorical question to make the point that not all Kawai pianos are "warm". The stereotype is that Kawai is "warm" and Yamaha is "bright", Kawai is for classical and Yamaha is for pop. This video helps to consolidate that sentiment by rendering the Steinway and Yamaha vst pianos in a particular way (software pianos are dependent on the MIDI controller and velocity curve used). I have pointed out before that Merriam Music, being a Kawai dealer and not a Yamaha or Steinway dealer, sees things in one particular way. In real life, all these pianos are great, and Kawai is largely exaggerated over the other 2 brands in this channel.

I 100% agree with Annie! Kawai is so warm. Reminds of the C. Bechstein tone. It beautifully complimented her voice! Love this channel

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! We sincerely appreciate your support of our channel! :)

I always thought piano reviews couldn't be any better than yours, but you managed to raise the bar again, Stu. Kudos to you. 👏👍🙏

I agree with her. The Kawai Sk Ex concert grand is amazing.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

The Kawai SK-EX sample set is one of my favourite sample sets out there! They provide a very musically rewarding sound to say the least! :)

Fantastic test for Stu (and all of us!), and beautiful singing Annie! Wow, both of you!

Great video again! Would love to hear a full project from you two featuring only your incredible playing and her fantastic vocals.

Hey, I think I've seen nearly all of your videos, really! Most of them very intersting and useful - and I never wrote anything. But today I found this one and the beauty of what you both did has blown me away! So I say thank you with all of my heart.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you so much for supporting our videos and channel! We sincerely appreciate it. I will certainly pass on the kind words to Stu as well. I know he appreciates the support immensely as well! :)

This was super fun to guess along with you. Pegged the Kawai the first time around but was duped more than a few times throughout.

Lots of fun. Thanks!

great review and fantastic music which is always a highlight of stu's reviews, but added bonus this time. any kids who grow up in that household are going to have seriously good ears

Hi Stu and Annie, you two are absolutely amazing !

Wow! :) Amazing job, both of you 😀

I’ve found my absolute favourite youtube-channel ever. Subscribed instantly.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! We sincerely appreciate your support and subscription! :)

Wow, what a fantastic video! Seriously, one of your best.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Thank you kindly! Glad you enjoyed it! :)

Wow, Annie has amazing tone! Big fan of your vids; helped me land a Schimmel K195.

@JoeLinux2000

2 жыл бұрын

I think she's probably the best judge as she can feel how it's working with her voice. When it comes to Saxophone tone a lot of it is generated in the player's nasal cavity. If Kwanzala Harris was a piano, they would be hard to sell.

Absolutely brilliant video, kudos to you two ✨👍

@MerriamPianos

11 ай бұрын

We're glad you enjoyed it! I will certainly pass the kind words on to Stu and Annie for you! :)

Hey stud you are a Lucky Guy... Now seriously. I LOVE your videos. Bought a fp30x and i LOVE It too. Thanks for tour work!!!

Fun video. More Annie videos! She's great too.

Excellent video, Stu. Really enjoyed. I personally liked the way the CFX complemented Annie’s voice. You are right about how the tonality of the CFX doesn’t compete with the vocals. Keep the videos coming! Norm

@benjaminsmith2287

2 жыл бұрын

She preferred the Kawai but would she if she listened back? The Yamaha didn't compete at all with her so her voice was highlighted he most with the Yamaha complementing her. Yet I think it is still an excellent solo instrument in that it almost enunciates as in speaks. It's more about attack intensity than the other two, even in the virtual form. The Kawai may have the softest hammers but is good at changing timbres in different dynamic ranges.

A fun video from a beautiful talented couple, well done, more please, thanks.

Regardless of technical nitpickings, I have to say that listening to this video on my Sennheiser headphones has been a real pleasure. The sound is so clean and direct to my ears.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome! Nice headphones certainly helps render all of the nuances and gorgeous details of these recorded pianos. :)

Awesome segment, Stu! Looking forward to the album... :-)

Nice format... and I agree with your wife: I always felt VSL Steinway very cold, too ringy... CFX has always been my favorite.

What a fun, interesting and beautiful video!

@MerriamPianos

8 ай бұрын

We're glad you enjoyed it! :)

Great work Stu with your talented wife. Both of you have perceptive ear for the Kawai SK-EX. A fun and interesting challenge.

I LOVED this comparison. ❤️ And she's lovely too, Stu!

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in! We're glad you enjoyed the video! :)

Maybe the best video you’ve ever done Stu! Stu is hitting way above his weight with Annie! Annie is perfectly made up, beautifully dressed and Stu is Sunday morning, unshaven and I’m a t-shirt! 😂 What a talented and nice couple though. 👍

Really fun to watch..

Annie has a beautiful voice. Stu is a musical genius. Great couple ❤️

This is "technical experimentation as entertainment." I really enjoyed it!

Loved the Kawai :)

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

The Kawai SKEX samples are amazing! They are some of my favourites as well! :)

It's amazing duos. I'm very impressed with this video. When you played as an accompanist, the Yamaha provides very good sound. The Steinway too which I think it's more color in some parts. But the Kawai provides different ambience, which is I think it can blanded very well with the singer. I think it would depend on personal choice. Thank you.

That video is so damn awesome.

@MerriamPianos

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jim!! Really glad you enjoyed it! We certainly enjoyed making it :) -Stu

Very fun experiment. 😃But, here are some issues to be aware of with this particular experiment. I have done similar experiments and I can share a few things to keep in mind: 1) This is not really an apples-to-apples comparison, because the Kawai sound is coming from a digital piano, and I will elaborate below why this matters. It would have been an apples-to-apples if Vienna Symphonic Library had a VSL SK-EX. But they don't. In fact, almost nobody records Kawai pianos. It is very difficult to find good quality vst Kawai pianos. Most vst piano companies record Steinway, Yamaha, Fazioli. Almost no one records Kawai pianos. 2) I have done similar experiments with the CFX built-in on my digital piano, and compared to the Garritan CFX, Ivory Pianos II (Bösendorfer, Steinway, Yamaha C7), and some of the Native Instruments grand pianos. The difference is extremely obvious, and this is why: You can tell right away when you are playing the built-in CFX, for one simple reason: the speaker system has been designed exclusively for that sample. Digital piano samples are meant to be played via the speaker system, especially in premium pianos like the Novus NV5, or a Yamaha AvantGrand. What you pay in these pianos is basically a better action and a speaker system designed for that sample. If you play another sample, the speaker system will tell you that right away. The acoustics are different, the sound typically is more distant, more reverberant, not as crisp. Apparently, the test was done using the built-in speaker system of the Novus NV5 for Stu to use as the reference to judge the pianos. In that case, the Kawai sample will be very clear to choose for the player. In the same manner that, in my digital piano, nothing sounds as good through the built-in speaker system than the built-in CFX sample. Because Yamaha tuned that speaker system for it. In fact, Yamaha uses both an anechoic chamber AND a 3D semi-anechoic chamber to tune in the speakers in their Clavinova series, with microphone feedback from a multitude of microphones to detect sound pressure in a hemispheric grid, to make the speakers particularly calibrated for the built-in sample. To make the test a bit more accurate, the proper speakers should have been not the built-in speakers, but a pair of studio monitors. That is of course the NV5 speakers were used. If Stu was listening to his studio monitors from a distance, that would be different. 3) The keyboard used is not a general purpose MIDI controller. The piano sample on the NV5 is carefully adjusted by Kawai at the factory, to sound its best for this specific action. People who use vst pianos know this is a big deal: if your MIDI controller is not optimally adjusted for that piano sample, you will not make justice to the sample. That is why some vst pianos, like Pianoteq, will have dedicated Velocity Curves for different brands and models. 4) Annie's comment at 19:27 that she felt that "the Kawai had more emotion"... If the NV5 speakers were used for the test: that exactly is what should happen, since the Kawai speaker system is designed just for that sample. I experience the same with my digital piano: the CFX built-in sounds way better through its dedicated speaker system than the vst pianos. If you play a vst piano through a speaker system that is NOT designed for it, then those vst pianos will not sound as good. The only way to make an unbiased statement here would be to use a pair of studio monitors without looking at which sample you are selecting. If studio monitors were used in the test, but you already like Kawai and you look at your selection, then the selection process contains some elements that may introduce bias. 5) These are digital recordings with unspecified settings in the modeling engines: we don't know if each piano was optimally adjusted for the playing through those Kawai piano-purposely-designed speakers. We don't know if the recordings played through another speaker system, like a high quality pair of studio monitors, have the samples optimally designed. Modeling engines offer so many parameters that can be tweaked. 6) I used a pair of flat studio headphones and a Tascam audio interface. To me, during the duo parts (singing), the Yamaha actually sounded best, and the Kawai sounded the most flat, meaning less color in the sample. In addition, I could hear the sample being shorter, with less decay. Kawai uses the Harmonic Imaging XL in their SK-EX Rendering engine, which they clearly state in their website is not a full sample of the note, but the attack portion of the note. That what "XL" means: extra large... meaning larger than the regular Harmonic Imaging, but not a full decay recording. Premium vst pianos like VSL record the entire note, and you can tell. That is why they are huge libraries. The Kawai had also a narrower stereo field. This is probably because that sample is not meant to be used for recordings, but built specifically for a piano replacement. The VSL pianos are probably meant for studio recordings. 7) The word "warm" can be easily misused. It is a vague word. It can mean at least two different things: - A "preferential" adjective: people may use the word as a synonym for "sweet", "musical" sound.. which is another way of saying: I like this sound, so I am going to call it "warm". This is then an opinion, not a fact. - An "analytical" adjective: the word "warm" can be used to mean "rolled off treble", "less definition", "less separation", "more mid-bass pronounced", "more blended". In that sense, it is not an opinion, but a fact that can be analyzed in a frequency spectrum analyzer, or appreciated by ear, and does not mean a "better" sound, just a description of it. To evaluate a piano as "warm" in the first sense, it is an opinion. Somebody might just have a different pick or taste. The second use is more objective, and refers to a characteristic of the sound, and does not imply preference. When the word "warm" is used, it should be used in the 2nd sense to be objective. Otherwise, you are just giving an opinion. Blended sounds with less definition are liked by many people, but this is not a measurement of quality, but an aspect of the sound. 8) A more accurate experiment would be: a) Test pianos recorded by the same company b) Use a MIDI controller that has not been adjusted for a particular sample (the MIDI controller used here is adjusted for the Kawai sample). Use the best possible settings to adjust the velocity curve for EACH piano separately. Do not the same MIDI controller setting for the different pianos. Each piano needs its own velocity curve to produce the best sound. c) Tweak each piano to sound optimally. This will be already subjective, but the effort can be made. Maybe invite a Yamaha or Steinway musician, to balance the preferences, and let them adjust their favorite sample to sound its best. 9) For the audience: playing samples that people cannot see and are identified by numbers (Piano #1, Piano #2, etc.) will be a more objective way to evaluate a piano sound. Most people have their own preferences a priori. For example, for some people, when they see the name "Kawai", they immediately will like what they hear, even before anything is played. If they see the name "Yamaha", they will immediately hear "cold, simple sound" etc., and whatever their pre-conceptions are will influence their listening experience.

@MerriamPianos

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Instrumental Covers - I never even thought to clarify this but makes sense to: the Novus 5 speakers were 100% inactive for this, and the sound from the piano was sending from the line-out's into our interface and out of the studio monitors, so it was the same level and sonic source when I was hearing all three. None of the piano's three sounds were coming through the Novus - it was used exclusively as a controller (and signal source for the SKEX) in this case. I think I'll add that to description so people are aware. - Cheers!, stu

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@MerriamPianos Hi Stu, that was good to know. As I mentioned, it was not clear the method of playing back the sample, so I imagined both possibilities. I think the Kawai sample should be a lot easier to tell than the other two, because it is a sample done with a different purpose and a different sonic character by a different company. For example, I can easily tell the difference between the CFX sample of my DGX 670 and the CFX by Garritan. It is very obvious through headphones or speakers. And it is supposed to be the same CFX piano. Built-in piano samples in digital pianos are fairly different than vst pianos. There are several elements involved in them that make them different. For example, Kawai samples their pianos in an anechoic chamber. It is a dry sound with a note that is not full (no Kawai digital piano has fully recorded notes, which Kawai clearly state in their website when they explain what HI-XL is), then artificial modeling artifacts are added, most likely some looping must occur or some type of extension to the note that is not the real note, a sort of digital simulation. The reverb is fake as well. But vst pianos seem to be typically recorded not in anechoic chambers, so they do have a different character, reverb, decay, and level of detail (particularly in a recording by VSL). Since you are using Genelec studio monitors, the difference should become even more obvious. Great fun experiment! 😀

@africanhistory

2 жыл бұрын

You should just have done a Kindle Book LOL My word.

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

@@africanhistory 😄

@pedrod.7576

5 ай бұрын

Dude wrote a PhD thesis on the topic lmao

Very interesting test. I definitely prefer the Kawai. Wonder how many we'd get right in a blind test. Fun to listen to.

@mysticsailor9

2 жыл бұрын

yep, me too. The Kawai just had a certain something that set it apart for me

I tried to recognize them blind like you and mixed Steinway and Yamaha sometimes... but always recognized the Kawai immediately: It has a really warm sound full of colors. They are all wonderful: The Steinway is the choice if you need something for all kind of music and especially for the concert with a large orchestra. The Yamaha has the most neutral sound, works good in a band and would be my choice for pop music. The Kawai is the choice for solo playing or for accompanying such a wonderful voice like Annie's. I love the intimacy of the Kawai. Only got the money for an Digital Piano though... but that's a Kawai...

@benjaminsmith2287

2 жыл бұрын

What does "warm" mean?

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

You are assuming you listened to the true sound of the software pianos as intended by VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX. You didn't. Both instruments are suffering in this recording of a technical problem related to the so-called "MIDI velocity curve", which has rendered them harsh sounding. A comparison of the piano tones is invalid. If you listen to other recordings of this same virtual instrument, you will hear the difference. I don't know if you are familiar with virtual instruments, but you can instantly render a software instrument harsh by adding about 20 points on the velocity curve. Comparing a well regulated Kawai sample built-in on the digital piano NV5 with two badly misrepresented Steinway D and Yamaha CFX samples is not a fair test. This is not an apples-to-apples comparison. If you like an actual acoustic Kawai piano over other pianos, that is fine. But what is not OK is to present the sounds as heard on this video as the true sound of the Vienna Symphonic Library VSL Steinway D and Yamaha CFX software pianos.

@rustydusty3863

2 жыл бұрын

@@benjaminsmith2287 ...difficult to describe... It is "thicker" in the tone, especially in the mids... the sound has more "colors" and they match in a harmonic way. In the end, this behaviour is less universal, than (for example) a Steinway is. And the Kawai is way more dificult to mix with other instrument in a studio environment because the sound "covers" and is covered by other instruments too much. But it is not as mellow in quiet passages as the Boesendorfer. In the end, it is a matter of what you like. Never buy a Piano without playing and hearing it, no matter whether Grand, Upright or Digital.

@rustydusty3863

2 жыл бұрын

@@Instrumental-Covers You are completely right. I learned to play piano on a Yamaha Baby Grand in the 1970ties, and i loved the instrument. At home, I had an old, always mistuned upright (I do not remember the brand) which was really bad, but it was my friend in difficult times, so I loved it, too. I played a few times on a Steinway B-Model from 1963, and loved it. I had one of the first Yamaha Clavinova in the 80ies, and was happy to have an instrument at all. Form all of the sampling instruments, I choose the Abbey Yamaha CFX from Garritan, and this is great. I played only twice on a Kawai grand, not a Shigaru, but I listen oft to concerts, live or on a really sophisticated HiFi system, and BTW: If you have different Steinways , the differences between the instruments can be extreme.

@benjaminsmith2287

2 жыл бұрын

@@rustydusty3863 I think of Kawai as having a full bodied tone. I think the official definition of a warm tone is a tone that has a fair amount of bass in the tenor and alto registers. A dark tone has even more bass in it. And I guess a bright tone has less bass. But the thing is, some pianos have almost conflicting qualities to their tones, bright and darkness in their tones. Or bright tones with warmth. Thanks for your well detailed answer.

Your wife's vocal was stunningly good and I'm with her for that kind of performance with Kawai. I appreciate the Yamaha as the most versatile and "neutral" instrument. I never could understand, why people like the Steinway so much, although I'm from Germany. ;-) To be honest, I don't think I would distinguish between the models in a live session as a listener, so I think everyone artist should use the instrument he feels best about. And all of the instruments today are on a level of tonal excellence and sheer perfect build quality.

@studiosnch

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you. Steinways are best enjoyed by themselves or with an orchestra. Yamahas are good for anything, especially with a singer. Kawais are like Yamahas but with more wood and warmth with a sound and experience that benefits the piano player more than the other musicians, say when playing in a band.

Wow!!! the kawai is so intimate and romantic sound. So unique, he is able to pick it everytime. It really sounds amazing. My favorite.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

There is a distinct beauty to the warm Kawai sound that is hard to mess once you are familiar with it. Thanks for tuning in! :)

What a stunning voice !!! Musical power couple !

@MerriamPianos

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the compliment and kind words! :)

Hello! Best regards👋🏼 I really liked this type of hearing test that is excellent for differentiating and identifying the differences between these 3 magnificent pianos, both for their tonal frequencies, warmth, resonance, sleaze, and expression among many characteristics🎹👍🏻 obviously Stu he is an excellent and talented pianist and manages to get the best out of these variants of these magnificent pianos💪💪💪 coincidentallyI am a lover of the 3💙🎹🎹🎹 however in this test I agree with the beautiful lady when she pointed to the kawai and also about what she said In relation to the last mistake between Yamaha and Steinway😏, however, I think in my humble opinion, (as a keyboard player) (not a pianist) that the sound of the Yamaha is unmistakable regardless of the variants, especially in the bass and mids. excellent video guys! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😊😎

Nice video. I couldn’t keep my eyes off the beautiful …. Stratocaster …. in the background!

I agree with Annie, the Kawai sounded slightly warmer and less harsh to my ears too.

As a singer/pianist, myself, I found this video particularly fascinating.

@MerriamPianos

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for tuning in! We're happy to hear that you enjoyed the video. :)

Great Video! I was trying to guess too, specially when the playing is jazzy it was difficult for me but with long played notes i could here characteristics…. Beautiful voice! Can i ask what vst library you were using? ist that from vienna orchestra? I personally like synthogy grand piano steinway. Looking forward for more videos, you two are so gifted. Rene

lots of talent in the same room, album please!

It's not fair. I mean, Stu has his ears sooo well trained. He spends a lot of time recording videos about comparisons, plus he has a variety of instruments in the show room of his own shop where I am shure he spends a lot of time playing them. Of course he would get it right. Stu is the most known piano specialist on u tube to me. Legend!

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I can't disagree with you on that front! Stu has golden ears to put things lightly. With that said, his ability to blindly discern between piano voices is quite impressive! :)

COOL❤

@MerriamPianos

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for tuning in! :)

Wow! Annie’s voice is so beautiful. And Stu… you are a master pianist. Thank you for sharing your talents! Anyway, I agree with Annie regarding Kawai having more warm and emotion.

@MerriamPianos

11 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for tuning in! Stu and Annie are quite the talented duo! I will be sure to pass on your kind words to them. :)

@Noldy34

11 ай бұрын

@@MerriamPianos Thank you!

Annie has a beautiful voice❤absolutely gorgeous Love this video. Thank you Stu and Annie

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for tuning in! I will be sure to pass on your kind words to Stu and Annie! And I certainly agree! Annie has a tremendous voice! :)

Awesome video Stu and Annie. Fascinating the way you ‘tuned your ear in” on the blind test (and then maybe tired at the 10th question). But Annie’s singing over your comping really takes the cake here. My guess before the three singing experiments was that Annie would prefer singing over the Yamaha or the Kawai and put the Steinway last, because its tonal quality and colour would be competing with her vocals. In the end, the Kawai filled that spot, with its warmth, and the Yamaha by comparison leaving the singer cold (too clinical or plan vanilla or black and white / pen and pencil sketch?…and not giving the singer enough to work with). The thing that struck me, right from the first note with the Steinway, was wow: Annie is singing the same song (same verse too) >completely I had the sense that Annie had to work a lot harder (and think more?) with the Steinway. As a listener, I liked the performance with the Steinway the best. (Opposite of my expectation). Annie seemed most relaxed and comfortable with the Kawai, so I can get why she rated it first. Would be interesting if her rating as a listener would be different…even (or especially!) a year later. Keep up the great work.

@MerriamPianos

6 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for tuning in and for these wonderful insights! It is certainly very interesting to see a performer's reaction to an instrument that is accompanying them (even when it comes to the most subtle/nuanced changes in body language or performance approach). I will be sure to pass on your kind words to Stu and Annie! :)

Most interesting ❣️ The first one I had the funny feeling of “oh please shut off the piano, it’s irritating my listening of her beautiful voice”. The second one compared to the first it appeared to me “just professional” and the third was a “perfect fit” totally in harmony with Anni’s performance. Loved it ❣️

@MerriamPianos

7 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your insights! We appreciate it. :)

Hey Stu, may I suggest that at the end of your videos have Annie perform a song. Oh, and if I haven't told you before, I find your videos very informative.

Love the voice of Annie... what a beautiful couple! If I can afford any piano I want, I would sélect the Shigeru (and maybe the Fazioli too). Love the warmth of the Shigeru. But really, as a solo instrument on a concert stage, I think the Steinway is in a class of its own. I used to hate the sound of a Yamaha, but the CFX changed my mind. The CFX is now one of the best in the world.

@MerriamPianos

6 сағат бұрын

Annie and Stu are both incredibly talented! They're a musical power couple! :) The Shigeru Kawai pianos are exceptional. The warmth, colour, power, and expressivity they possess is unparalleled to any other piano in its price category. These are instruments that definitely punch well above their weight class and offer excellent cost-to-value ratios for customers.

Her eyes, reactions, and trying not to say anything is just... so much fun to watch...

@MerriamPianos

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for tuning in! :)

13:59 - Brahms Intermezzo Opus 118, No. 2 - a piece worth the attention of classical music enthusiasts & worth Stu recording on a demo someday. Thank you both.

@KevinR3i

2 жыл бұрын

I have recorded this piece on Kawai GL20 pls check and whether you like the sound of the Kawai.

@The-Organised-Pianist

2 жыл бұрын

@@KevinR3i Hey thanks - sounding good!

Stu and Annie, great comparison video! I was wondering if you ran the NV5 to the DAW/audio interface via 1/4" TRS as an external instrument? I was assuming you we listening to the VST s through the Kawai somehow but it sounds like the studio monitors were behind you during the listening test.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and writing in with your question. I am not exactly sure how Stu ran the VST audio in real-time for this video, but my guess would be that he used the studio monitors. Thanks again and all the best!

This is some of the stuff I want to do with my wife. Just having fun making music.

Goodlord, that was so nice with ms Bonsignore. With an interruptio sine qua non three times when beautiful music started, by vulgar advertisements. But I'm not complaining. Beautiful voice. Beautiful piano playing. I felt the Steinway was the most recognizable especially in the midrange. It has some "ring" but in piano solo that can make it more interesting where many others sound thin and tinny. Yes, that competes a bit with the human voice that is precisely in that range. Albeit that may have been a matter of recording/mixing too. I was wondering the whole time, from a highest end audiophile perspective - while listening through lossy compressed MP4 and desktop loudspeakers - how you played the virtual instruments back in your session. DA converter, amplification, headphone amplifier or anything that might influence what you hear and how you hear it.

@MerriamPianos

2 жыл бұрын

Hey @JP dJ! So the VST's were hosted within Logic in a 24bit / 48kHz session, passing through a Clarrett Interface, and presented through a pair of Genelec monitors (8020a). The Kawai was also coming into the same session via analog 1/4" cables from the line-out, with the local speakers off. So I was hearing all three from the same perspective, though there was an extra D/A to A/D conversion occurring with the Kawai with the chain we had setup. And thanks for the comments, great to hear it was enjoyed :) -stu

Fantastic ... ty! Where can I find a VSL (or close to it) quality Kawai VST?? Anything better than Kawai EX Pro by Acoustic Samples?

It is going to be very interesting and I am not sure what to expect. These questions have to be asked (and perhaps answered, even though the answers may be very subjective and depend on personal preferences) because otherwise we are just chasing some illusions.

@JoeLinux2000

2 жыл бұрын

Virtual pianos are inherently illusions.

@mfurman

2 жыл бұрын

I was very glad that Stu did so well. I learned that Steinway sound is not necessarily the one I liked the most. Very interesting for me and it reinforces my recent thoughts that I should just get a hybrid digital piano and forget about aspiring to ever own an acoustic one.

Thanks for all the great reviews! I would like to know what Kawai piano Stu is playing in this video. Is it one of the hybrids? Thanks again !

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

You're very welcome! Thanks so much for the kind words and for tuning in! Stu is playing his NV5 in this video! :)

Amaziiiiiig !! and yes Kawai all day long !! :) . question here what Kawai model stu Plays the one in the room looks amazing

@MerriamPianos

7 ай бұрын

That would be the amazing Kawai NV5 digital hybrid! ;) Thank you for tuning in!

To me this video just goes to show...pick a piano that works for you, for what ever the reasons are, and learn to play it well. Beautiful piano music is going to sound great on any platform if played well. Good job! And +1 for Kawai =-)

Cool cool cool!!! Coudn't agree more with Annie.

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for tuning in! :)

I found myself looking for "tells". As you were playing the Kawai and playing chromatically down through the bass, there was a particular place where there was an obvious break, not sure if it's where the piano goes from double wound to single wound strings, but it stood out. Another piano, I'd have to go looking to see which the Steinway or the Yamaha, had one noted in the upper mid treble that sounded out of tune when played a certain way. I can see how those little things could stand out really quickly to someone with a critical ear and/or drive a person nuts over time when they can't be fixed and they can't stop hearing them.

@MerriamPianos

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely! The devil is in the detail as they say! Small little nuances can be very distinguishable features when it comes to tone. :)

Stu, you played all of these on a Kawai piano, could you please post what model it is. Also were we hearing this through speakers, the Kawai soundboard via transducers or direct line? Thank you so much for your channel.

He plays like that and she sings like that. OK, you two are amazing.

Nice contest and revealing that the differences are subtle to me but clear to you professionals... but such a treat to have your wife join you here. She has such a beautiful voice and your interactions are sweet. Peace to your home Stu and Annie. As a singer, I prefer instruments share my vocal space. It feels more supportive to have that tonal reinforcement but I understand the engineers position in leaving space for each element to stand out... muddy waters are warm so-to-speak.

Imagine, The Kawai did sound the best. I do not think they would be like that if they were acoustics. On my end the audio was not received well enough (based on my setup?) to hear a massive difference. Think the dynamic range over YT was limiting factor also.

Can you please post more vocal and piano, could be a killer channel on those content!!!

“I had more emotion when I was listening to the it (Kawai)” “I felt more...” 19:26 ... it was very warm, more intimate” (Kawai) 25:36 “I really enjoyed the tone of the Kawai, it really complimented the voice “

@MerriamPianos

2 жыл бұрын

The warmth and richness that the Kawai SKEX offers is truly special and captivating! :)

Impressive! I can make the difference between a Steinway and a Fender Rhodes and a Harpsichord pretty accurately and that's pretty much it. Joke asides, I can make the difference between a well built piano and a poor quality one but I can't tell between high level one.

Great video! Can the Kawai ES920 use the same VSTs as you used on the NV5?

@MerriamPianos

11 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! We appreciate it. Yup! Any MIDI compatible digital piano can be used to control any VST plugin, including the ES920. :)

Just wondering, what VST are you using for the Yamaha CFX sample?

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I would have to double check with Stu as to which VST was used for the CFX sample demonstrated in this video. I am not entirely sure, but I imagine it would either be the Garritan or VSL.

I got 8/10! Got the last 2 wrong! Love this video!

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Very nice work! Thanks so much for tuning in! :)

My favorite one: Yamaha The most balanced: Kawai The one I heated: Steinway PDT: We need more of this on the channel please

@Instrumental-Covers

2 жыл бұрын

I know why you hated Steinway: because the true sound of the VSL Steinway D is not that harsh. The sound was heavily misrepresented in this video due to a technical issue with the MIDI velocity curve of that vst piano. If you listen to other videos that use the same software piano, you will see the difference. The Steinway D by VSL actually has a beautiful sound, not what you heard here.

とても興味深く楽しませて頂きました。 そして、Yamaha/Steinway/Kawai それぞれの音源よりも奥様の歌の方が素晴らしい。

Cute couple doing cute things (music edition). And yet it is helpful when choosing digital or real piano - brand matters (kind of).

Your one lucky dud man! Beautifull wife beautifull vocal. You should use here more to make your channel more versatile and interesting nice video!

I liked the Steinway , then the Kawai and the Yamaha last, The Steinway is very articulate and contrast quite nicely with your wife's beautiful voice.

That chick's got some serious talent. Should have been a pop star.

@MerriamPianos

9 күн бұрын

Annie has a wonderful voice! Stu and Annie are immensely talented duo. :)

I think Stu was just getting tired by the time the last one came up. A brilliant "blindfold" test with positive results. Now can we guess where Annie is from? Maybe born in Australia, but been in Canada or the US for a long time? A great singing voice anyway. Thanks for this very enjoyable team effort.

@adamrobinson8620

2 жыл бұрын

South Africa. I was curious too so I googled.

@Zoco101

2 жыл бұрын

@@adamrobinson8620 Damn! I nearly said South Africa. It's such a light accent anyway.

very, very very bautiful video!!! THANKS!!!!! I think YAMAHA is doing a very good Job!!!

Now following both of you, hope to hear more songs together soon :) .... By the way what is the name of the song that Annie sang ?

@AnneBonsignore

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Carlos! The song is called ‘I Won’t Back Down’ by Tom Petty :)

The voice sounds better with the esteinway, congraulations.

Yamaha CFX blended with her voice the best! It gives off the best aura for this music.

@MerriamPianos

10 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for tuning in! I'll be happy to pass on the kind words to Stu and Annie! :)

@geraldkohar

10 ай бұрын

@@MerriamPianos no worries. Btw, I agree with her opinion on steinway, for some reason it just doesnt sound as good, especially because it is right after CFX. Kawai sounds better than steinway, but the impression isnt as strong as when she sings with CFX. That's why her voice sounds best with CFX, it's just beautiful!

Have you tried the ravencroft?

At the beginning of the video Stu says Kawai EX, and this is reflected in a brief caption. But the thumbnail for this video says Kawai SK-EX, which is the later model, with a darker tone. Since the tonal characteristics of Kawai pianos are a burning issue on this channel, it would be nice to clarify which Kawai patch was used.

@AnneBonsignore

2 жыл бұрын

Good catch Mike - Stu used the SK-EX...not sure why he mucked it up in the intro! - Annie

@Zoco101

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnneBonsignore Thanks for clarifying that. Keep up the good work!

What Kawai's model that Stu is playing?

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

Hi there! Stu is playing a Kawai NV5 in this video! :)

Lovely video, next time you should keep us blind too to see if we can get any

@MerriamPianos

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion! That is a very good idea. :)

In the video on KZread where the German guy is comparing the Steinway, CFX and Bosendorfer playing those wonderful Liszt and Ravel excerpts, the CFX not only sounds completely distinct but imo much better than the Steinway.

@MerriamPianos

9 күн бұрын

They are all very excellent sounding VSTs, but every player will have their own personal preferences of course. :)

It's very difficult on software. The difference is always obvious on the real ones!

That's fabulous playing and preternatural guessing. I wouldn't have gotten one right except by chance.

@MerriamPianos

9 күн бұрын

Thanks so much for tuning in! We appreciate it and we're glad you enjoyed the video! :)

I think Annie would win masked singer. And 27:20 --- it's understandable, as each sort of piano has its own tonal characteristics. A particular kind of piano may not suit particular sorts of pop music, and might not best match the voice of a particular singer. So having options to handle particular cases is what it will be about. Also - when samples are being recorded - the configuration and quality of the microphones, and the room or hall etc ----- are part of the picture too. And also adding - which everybody can see already - Stu's piano playing solid, reliable. Amazing.

@JoeLinux2000

2 жыл бұрын

Most players play a certain piano because they are sponsored in some way by the manufacturer. There's a young gal here in Denver who is a "Steinway Artist." Gerald Clayton who I worship is a "Yamaha Artist." As such the venue will have to rent the brand of piano the artist represents. Over many years, Steinway went out of its way to make certain the best pianists were seen playing their pianos. My pick for an acoustic grand is Mason & Hamlin, but I don't believe they have ever been discussed on this channel.

@southpark4151

2 жыл бұрын

@@JoeLinux2000 True. Good points you made. Competition and big business drives people to put in their best effort to maintain good quality design and components. Ideally - it is nice to just be (even at first or for a while) to not know the brand of instrument being played --- and only focus on the sound of it - and to use it for the particular application. Although - for some cases - if options are limited, we can only make do with what we have access to. If the Mason and Hamlin hasn't yet been sampled professionally - then that would certainly be nice to add to the sound collection.

Love your Tom petty cover!

@MerriamPianos

Жыл бұрын

:)

Good Luck Stu

@MerriamPianos

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you kindly! :)

It would have been easier to hear from the real acoustic g. pianos. But there should have been also a Bechstein, Bösendorfer and Blüthner, too, to make it more difficult. I guess these three would be nearer to the Steinway/Hamburg.

@MerriamPianos

5 ай бұрын

We will have to tackle another tone shootout with different lines and manufacturers in the future! ;)

10:23 Steinway played 11:19 Kawai guessed (but corrected to Steinway at next sample) --- 11:27 Kawai played 12:27 Kawai guessed --- 12:56 Steinway played 13:28 Yamaha guessed *(1st wrong)* --- 13:33 Steinway played 14:17 Steinway guessed --- 14:24 Yamaha played 14:50 Yamaha guessed --- 14:56 Kawai played 15:33 Kawai guessed --- 15:38 Steinway played 16:27 Steinway guessed --- 16:32 Kawai played 16:40 Kawai guessed --- 17:31 Kawai played 17:43 Kawai guessed --- 17:49 Yamaha played 18:40 Steinway guessed *(2nd wrong)* So it is 8 out of 10. Still remarkable result. Well done, Stu

@MerriamPianos

5 күн бұрын

:)