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The Esoterica video about monotheism in ancient Israel came out pretty soon after the Data/ Dogma episode about how there wasn't actually monotheism in ancient Israel. I wanted to leave a comment asking about it since from my layman perspective they're both trustworthy in their research skills and in their intellectual honesty and thought it would be fascinating to know why they came to different conclusions from the data but I thought it would be naive to think the explanation could fit a comment reply. When I saw that he was live with Dan and that they were talking exactly about that I almost screamed. Can't wait to watch this

Oh my gosh! My favorite experts! You two have given me such a great insight into theology and religion better than any temple or church.

@lingus1382

Күн бұрын

Fr I feel like I’ve learned more from this channel alone than I did my entire childhood growing up religious

@evangelisticoutreach1

23 сағат бұрын

The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. Worldly credentials and degrees mean nothing in the service of God. What matters is if a person has wisdom and revelation from the Spirit of God. YHWH is the Most High God. There is none other. Jesus is YHWH. The Holy Bible is True. (John 14:6-9, John 17:17).

@evangelisticoutreach1

23 сағат бұрын

As it is written, “God has hidden these things from the wise and prudent”

@nikolademitri731

Сағат бұрын

@@evangelisticoutreach1 what if I believe in Jesus, but don’t think he is YHWH? Why can’t I just do that?

I was wondering if these two would cross paths given their expertise and material they choose to cover on their respective channels. I am grateful to them both for delivering such wonderful content and hope they do another one of these! Dan, Justin, you are both amazing and I wish you the best!

Dangit! I wish I had known that you two were going to do a live collaboration!

@kaarlimakela3413

Күн бұрын

Ikr? Just missed it!

Hearing Dan call Judah the “little brother” compared to the north makes me wonder if the common biblical motif of God choosing the younger over the firstborn represents a genuine cultural memory of Judah superseding Israel’s prominence

@langreeves6419

Күн бұрын

Interesting I always loved that trope in the bible....I'm the youngest!

@oliviawilliams6204

21 сағат бұрын

Or propaganda to justify it

@scienceexplains302

10 сағат бұрын

@@oliviawilliams6204Justify? Assyria crushed the northern kingdom. That is what made Judah stronger than Israel/Samaria.

"The Spartans... they got their asses kicked!" "Heroically! They got their asses kicked heroically." lmao

Even just starting with early Sumer, each town had a mascot god that lived in their tallest temple, they would kidnap each other's god statues in war! Extra humiliation. If you wanted to be a big boy nation, build a big temple with a big god.

Two of my very favourites together !! This was such a treat made my day !! Thank you both for what you do :)

I have stumbled across the history of the God of Abraham in my personal gazing on KZread, but I always take it with a grain of salt. This was an interesting video.

@andrewbreding593

Күн бұрын

There are very few people who descent without deserting. It's hard to get a moderate like this to do the work then have people accept it but it's probably closer to the truth of why it is fundamentally important. Cognitive theology if I knew these things existed I would've stayed in education

@thirdcoastfirebird

Күн бұрын

@@andrewbreding593 Yeah.

@jagpro91

Күн бұрын

​@@thirdcoastfirebirdYeah.

As an atheist this content feeds my soul in a historical, anthropological kind of way. Thank you for filling a hole that Mormonism destroyed for me.

The live stream was exceptional, covering a fascinating topic that illuminated the depths of mystical and spiritual knowledge in a captivating way.

Love you both and what a surprise to find you both here, together!!!❤❤❤

Please, please, please do this again with another topic! Perhaps this becomes a regular, yet periodic, feature on the two channels? Thank you, both!

Two of my favorite scholars together...like two great tastes that taste great together. A Reeses cup of theological discussion.

OMG MY TWO FAVES!!!! Let’s gooo!!!

I'm going to have to watch this a few times, and still let it soak in. I hear the words, but my mind is kind of blown right now!

I love all the content lately on the origins of Yahweh and the origins of monotheism. I've been fascinated about these topics ever since I first read the Early History of God.

These two together would be the perfect recurring segment on this channel

Wow what a great discussion..thanks for sharing with us!

Oh snap! Dan McClellan is my favorite bible guy!

I learned very much from this talk - a deep thank you!

Great live stream!!! 💯🙏🏽

Hey Herriman UT, shout out from South Jordan!

Thank you!

"Theological Necromancy" That term goes so hard, I love it.

You guys are great. More please!

Two of my favorites :)

Great discussion, very interesting and informative!

great discussion

Incredible discussion, thank you for illuminating a topic that's almost taboo to unpick in some places. The bit about theological necromancy got me 🤯 it's so true! I've seen religious people pull that trick like they're drawing Exodia cards from their Yu-Gi-Oh! deck.

@siobhanomalley1968

Күн бұрын

Also, the part where you're discussing the fact that monotheism really doesn't stand up well as a theory makes so much sense to me. It's the main reason I gave up on it many years ago, no one could provide logical explanations, or a back story, as it were, for how this all came to be. Thought processes have always led me back to the conclusion that, if theology is real, there can only be multiple forces at play to fulfil the different roles needed in the progression of the world and humanity's story. This may be one of the deepest and most important discussions on this channel. Which is saying A LOT 😂😂😂

"Reunited and it feels so good." Lovely. I'm not an intellectual or a scholar, but I was a kid who was a natural born seer, and I spent much of my life trying to understand the ways of nature and spirit and our place in that. I've found that this is an extremely predatory creation with beings who empower themselves by preying on others. And we human beings, being kind of dumb and naive, are easily duped into making alliances with them. Worship empowers them. Sacrifices empower them. Giving away our own capacity for awareness empowers them too, so they have a vested interest in keeping us dumb. Overall, I would have to say that although I haven't read The Evil Creator, the conclusion is sound. I wouldn't call him evil, but certainly a being of darkness. And I would also say that some of those gnostic writers you highlight were correct also -- there is a way to escape. I want to thank you Dr. Sledge, for sharing your knowledge because a lot of it has corroborated what I have learned myself, and if you think you are the only person who sees or knows something, you might feel a little bit crazy. But I'm not the only one. Not the first, for sure, and hopefully not the last. These things aren't myths. You're not allowed to say that. I am. Great talk here, though.

Nice combo!!

I am petitioning you to do a show with Chris Palmero, who just completed his Born in the Second Century podcast.

@Ghosafizzle

Күн бұрын

Biblical history dream team right there.

The deep lore thickens... excellent 😁

I hope you continue to speak about monotheism and maybe talk about the Islamic Allah? Thanks 😊

37:38 What you guys are discussing at this point in the video kinda parallels or proves something that I have held for a long time: history is not written by the victorious, as some people say; the people who write the histories will eventually become the victorious.

would it be possible to make a video about lucifer and satan being very different entities unrelated to each other? a few videos have popped up on the topic, but having an actual scholar on it i think it would be beneficial.

One of the best episodes if I didn't watch the parts you fast forwarded live though I'd be a bit upset about it being hard to hear

❤

The best understanding of monotheism comes from the SCOTUS. A "polytheist" sees executives in a corporate hierarchy. A "monotheist" sees the corporation as a person. Much love!

@TheEsotericaChannel

Күн бұрын

Both have gash mereologies

@rkmh9342

Күн бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel A Modus Vivendi even!

Dr. J needs to jump on the Data>Dogma podcaat so we can all have a live cocktail party. 🖖

Min 56:53 yay! Not nearly enough shout outs in forums like these to cognitive linguistics!! YAY!! ❤

That 18th century definition makes sense, seems thst was meant to be a Greek translation of the Arabic theological term of Tawid.

I follow both of your channels, it was great you had this conversation, thank you.

God is an experience internal. One can know God but not with ones mind. Religion is a social agenda.

Interesting Talk learned a few things Thank You. Something I like to remind my self while I try and figure it out like every one else. Is that these beings in the end are incomprehensible to us. So we do our best and then we all fight over the Definitions and the Logic. What else can the ants talk about when discussing the Farmers? We can come to a perfect conclusion and Yahweh or who ever you believe is in the farmers group still will be what they will be. We can try to make sense of it and we probably should but they do not operate by the same rules as us. The restrictions we put on God are just words. A Person can drink coffee every day and then say I want Tea. The server can say but that's not your usual and it might matter. My point is the Contradictions are our problem to deal with among our selves in the limited way we understand it. In the end our understanding will still be limited and lead to conflict as 3D beings try to make 2D images of A Being or Beings that operate from a completely different perspective than us.

Dan, you didn't announce your T-shirt fit for this live stream!

@timroham

20 сағат бұрын

Ducktales! (Awwwooooo-Ooo!)

Can you post the link for the Biblical Hebrew class?

37:55 "Judea is playing the role of the little brother here", hm, could that be connected to the fact that in the biblical narrative God repeatedly chooses younger brothers over the older ones?

@TheEsotericaChannel

Күн бұрын

Definitely a coincidence ;)

Nothing says job security like correcting people on the internet.

Talking about monotheism as an us vs them label. The rabbis I learned from always said don't say Judaism is monotheistic we are not part of that group. Judaism is panantheistic and monotheism is merely a one idol system.

Was the KJB put together in a way where monotheism was injected into it?

This was fascinating. Most if it went waaaaaaaaay over my head, but I remain deeply intrigued by this kind of scholarship.

Coming up next Stan Lee's interview on the origins of Iron Man!

Dan the Man!

OhhYeahWay

I love when you have these conversations as I always find someone new to follow.

1:09:26 covers the question that interests me a lot. Recently I've been reading about Clement of Alexandria flipping Plato's anairesis (ascent). Where Plato had philosophers ascending to make contact with the Absolute, in Christianity Jesus qua the Absolute descended to all humans to make that contact, so he could still bring in all of the neo-Platonic architecture but with the basic mechanism of contact reworked. I've always thought the mechanism of contact for humans to the Absolute is the real key question that comes up again & again, and whatever else is in your system, that's the keystone that holds it all together, like Justin is talking about. Great discussion.

That was fun!

The two best academic on KZread

This was wonderful. These "two doctor convos" are great. Dr Dan u got my sub! Can't wait to check out ur content.

No Weh!!!! (best Keanu accent) 😆

Awesome content! Thank you 😊

On cheerleading and politics: George W Bush was one in college. Good catch, Doc.

OMG! Two of my favorite academics collaborating! Could a guest shot from Dr. Sledge on Diablocritics be next?

The fallen one's having chosen their land on earth then went to govern the native peoples of that region...they went by never alone, up to ten maximum they did go, by the reason of their original treachery in the other realm they did turn on themselves, to war they went with their earthly servants(slaves), by the time many of the worlds religious scripts were recorded there is a memory and last of the epic wars between the fallen one's, it seems there are at least two or three still waring here.

Dan - El? Fortress of Solitude? You implying? Heh. Because those are Marvel Comic covers on the wall behind you.

First of: WOW! Super cool stuff. A good representation of the historical god! And it's not a glorious story! That's food for thought. But what's niggling at me the whole time, what shimmers through: de social political process that lead to these two kingdoms. A confederation of rebellious Kanaanite non-elites, semitic tribes, mixed in a ton of Egyptian and older Babylonian stuff. How did that story go in reality? Cause it's them that tell the Biblical story, redacting it etc.

A notable exception to the evangelical cheerleader approach: Dr Michael S. Heiser. This interview touched on and even echoed some of Heiser’s work on The Divine Council.

@EmilyTodicescu

Күн бұрын

“Here’s a perhaps silly illustration of what I want a modern scholar in this field to convince me of. Let’s say we took one of the biblical writers and we told him he was going to view a line-up of _elohim_ (kind of like criminal line-ups where witnesses make an identification). Our writer sees YHWH, then one of the sons of God from Psalm 82, then a demon from Deut 32:17, then the spirit of his deceased grandma (a la 1 Sam 28:13), and (just for good measure) an angel. All of them were _elohim_ to the biblical writer. Now here’s the question we ask our witness: Would you agree that all those characters are the same? That is, do they all have the same powers or attributes, have the same spiritual status, are all equally deserving of worship? Sorry, unless our Israelite is a buffoon, the answer isn’t going to be yes. He’d think we were nuts. He is going to say YHWH is different and incomparable. Long-dead Grandma Rivka ain’t at the same level as any of the others, and Israelites knew it. She wasn’t the next YHWH or divine council “deity of the month” nominee. My point (again) is that it is nonsense to say that plural _elohim_ in the biblical writer’s worldview means polytheism. If you can’t prove to me the biblical writer would see all these _elohim_ as ontologically on par, or “worship interchangeable,” then you can’t prove to me that it’s really polytheism. If it’s true polytheism they’d all have an official cult and there would be no reason to deny them that cult. Again, I’m not going to commit the offense I’m criticizing and say all Israelites parsed this well or even cared. My point is that many could and did distinguish _elohim,_ understanding that “elohim” was a term applied to a range of very different entities that did not share a specific set of attributes. Since today we do equate “g-o-d” to certain attributes, we can’t seem to swallow this. But that’s too bad. We ought to, since the alternative is to impose our view on the ancients and then act like we can reconstruct their religious views. I don’t think so.” - “Dan McClellen's Response to Yours Truly, and My Rejoinder Points”. Posted by DrHeiser | Apr 24, 2011 | Divine council, Doctrine of God, NakedBible |

what if in 2k years this video becomes the basis for everyone worshipping the denver broncos.

This was a good talk. Due to the nature of Dan's channel, it's rare to see him speculate on anything. That brief summary of ways that people tried to rationalize their assertion of a singular god was really interesting. We've seen some of that on this channel when looking at particular theologians. It's more fun to see it broadly laid out like that though. The reasoning process becomes very apparent and it's entirely self serving. It's all politics. Though I will say, generally when your logic problem requires an infinity, it most likely means that the problem itself is irrational. That it doesn't actually comport with anything in reality.

The elephant in the room for me is Persian Zoroastrianism. We have a messianic king of kings following a single good god. Before that, we have trash talk my god is better than your god. Afterward, we introduce ethics and metaphysics.

@MrAlepedroza

7 сағат бұрын

Zoroastrianism was not monotheistic during the Persian rule of Judea, its messianic ideas and exclussivism developping along several centuries.

@shishkabobby

2 сағат бұрын

@@MrAlepedroza Look at the Behistun Inscription, which was created at the time of Darius, who was of the same dynasty. This clearly establishes worship of Ahura Mazda. If you look at Second Chronicles, Cyrus proclaims "All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD, the God of heaven given me." From this, it seems reasonable to infer that YHWH was equated with Ahura Mazda.

Just watched data over dogma. What a nice surprise!

Oi, you think those are defeats? Have you looked at crucifiction?

1:15:47 This is why I love Dr. Sledge!

Both guys are religious and believe in God? How can you fit the round pin in the square hole when they have a conversation like this? So what is even religion/religious?(I'm an atheist by the way, deeply fascinated by the origins of religion and metaphysic worldview of us humans)

@TheEsotericaChannel

Күн бұрын

I'm religious but a post-theist

@robertohlen4980

Күн бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel please explain "post-theist"

@TheEsotericaChannel

Күн бұрын

Definitely not in a yt comment

@robertohlen4980

Күн бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel cool, I can respect that.

@TheEsotericaChannel

Күн бұрын

I'll make a video about it at some point

Im ready, i love when you discuss yaweh

I've been dying for this crossover

Is the god of Spinoza more strictly monotheistic then?

@TheEsotericaChannel

Күн бұрын

Monism yes, mono-theism, not so much

Very interesting,, learned something new about something very, very old

crossover of the century!!!

Qatal qatalah qtalt qtalta qtalti qtaltem qtaltem... ahhhh I'm forgetting hahaha!

What a surprise to learn that Dan received his second masters at Trinity Western U, which I attended many decades ago when it was only a college!

Missed it by that 🤏 much!

Echad= 1(+1) ?????? yeuh!!

i thought dan macklellan presented well after his mentor sent him through time and was shot by Libyans