0:36-0:40 evidence worked for me. After seeing the evidence I realized believing in God’s existence is the easiest thing ever. I would later find out that doing God’s will is the hardest thing ever.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

i bet you can't get god to do anything though.

@fatstrategist

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas Why would God do whatever we ask of Him? He is not our genie

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Wow, it’s almost like IP is a liar and a charlatan and your own story about accepting the information about Christianity that you were given proves him wrong when he says no atheist would change their mind based on evidence.

@2l84me8

11 ай бұрын

@@fatstrategistThat’s the whole point of prayer: asking god to do stuff for you.

@2l84me8

11 ай бұрын

What “evidence”?

I love Michael, he is of good heart. He humbles himself and corrects himself and even admits how much that hurts... What an inspirstion ngl. God bless him !

"Take a look at the evidence as objectively as you can. And accept that you can't." Beautifully said.

@ramigilneas9274

Жыл бұрын

That’s what I always say to creationists and to people who believe in a global flood or that Moses existed and that the Exodus actually happened.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Too bad IP goes out of his way to ignore his own saying

@relajado-fx5rf

Жыл бұрын

@@ramigilneas9274 Apply it to yourself first

@nbixel

11 ай бұрын

Beautiful, just gushing with immaculate assumptions, what gravitas, what splendure of vomit that apex mind can conjure meaningless platitudes into a non-arguement carefully crafted into a nothing burger. Im hungry.

@Faint366

10 ай бұрын

@@relajado-fx5rf they have. That’s why they’re bringing up things that the evidence objectively says did not happen.

When I was an atheist, I just wanted to believe what was true. Science seemed to be the best epidemiological tool, because I was raised without an understanding of faith. God, in His infinite mercy, answered the unspoken prayer of my heart & revealed truth: Himself. I later found out that many Christians had been praying for me. Please: pray for your atheists! The strongest apologetic for me was witnessing how my Christian friends loved me & lived their lives. It wasn't primarily, in the final analysis, the years of research into the evidence or the intellectual arguments, but the witness of the living Gospel in the lives of those who know Him. Love.🌹🙏

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

"When I was an atheist....." is the prelude to a series of unfounded, unsubstantiated experiences that cannot ve verified for validity, accuracy, or authenticity. I have yet to encounter any iota of evidence suggesting the supernatural.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

who cares why god hides, why does satan hide is what puzzles me. all he has to do is say hello and bang goes free will and gods plan - god is such a weak character in this fight. and maybe you can tell me A) why no fence around that tree in eden? and B) why did god make the snake smarter than eve? it's silly stories matey.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

Lol this sounds like a load of bollocks. Atheists don't pray to gods they don't believe in.

Too many faithful ppl cling to this nonsense idea that the only reason anyone wouldn't believe is willful rebellion. They refuse to acknowledge the fact that many people would rejoice if they knew God existed, wish He existed, but sadly don't think He does, and can't find a way to convince themselves. I think it just makes everything easier for many believers to impugn the motives of the nonbeliever, rather than wrestle with the real difficulty ppl genuinely have believing these things. The latter is inconvenient.

@TitusCastiglione1503

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes. But many atheists I’ve met do seem to have such a view.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

@@TitusCastiglione1503 I have never met one, and I bet you haven't either. We would believe on sufficient evidence. You don't have it and you know it, so bullshit like this video is vomited out.

@Gaz4113

Ай бұрын

To be honest, i say to those people "pretend he does, try to follow his laws they are beneficial even if you dont believe. And maybe by pretending to love God you may find that block that kept you from belief may lift." Usually they dont want to do even that.

@Capt.Fail.

Ай бұрын

⁠@@Gaz4113 I’m in that position now, and here’s my problem with pretending: I could probably convince myself of anything that way. It could be any religion, or any misguided worldview; if I wanted to believe it and just cut everything out of my life in a way to let me hone in on this one thing, brainwashing myself into thinking it, because of the susceptibility of human psychology I could probably pull it off. But that doesn’t say anything about the truth of the claim. It would simply be deluding myself. You would want the belief to at least appear true first before you devote yourself to it, so that you might have confidence you aren’t just fooling yourself.

@Gaz4113

Ай бұрын

@Capt.Fail. i understand where you are coming from. I guess in my own world view i don't believe people can really deceive themselves in so much as to accept a world view they dont really hold. Like people who are seeking God and partially want him to exist pretending aka going through the motions both mentally through prayer, and physically by loving your neighbors like you love yourself you might be able to overcome that doubt. Now if a seeker doesnt really want to find God they probably wont even if they pretend, they go through the motions but nothing changes it might just need to be something else that lifts that vail. And no matter if nothing works to over come that doubt i would tell then not to beat themselves up being a Christian is hard we worship a hidden God and even the most devout follower of God has doubts.

As an atheist, I agree that human psychology is incredibly complex and that if you could offer me objective undeniable proof of God, there's a possibility I could still not believe it. My question is how can I be blamed and condemned for my lack of belief if I am unable to override that part of my brain?

@Coteincdr

Жыл бұрын

As Catholics we believe that an Atheist in good faith could be saved. God will judge in accordance to the light you were given.

@richardstevenwalz4968

11 ай бұрын

You know deep down that no such proof even CAN exist!

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

@@Coteincdr I'm sure that makes you feel a lot better. However you still have no evidence.

@richardstevenwalz4968

10 ай бұрын

@@lil-al For something that obviously doesn't exxist you don't NEED evidence!

@richardstevenwalz4968

9 ай бұрын

@@magnetar28 You were never an atheist. You never knew the deep points, the arguments. And now you're self-deceived by your imagination. Alcoholics get that "peace" when they're driunk too!

"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." -Luke 18 Sad but true 🤕 How many miracles do we have in the Gospels, history, and even modern day and yet people still brush it off? I'm shocked the Eucharist miracles aren't the FOREFRONT of the Church's evangelism! We don't like changing our minds. It can be hard! Christianity isn't a battle of knowledge. It's a battle of the heart. *Do you or do you not want to submit yourself to a higher power?* For whatever reason that might be. Abuse, corruption, cynicism, etc. You can give a PERFECT account, but it's not your fight. You've done your part. You planted the seed, now ask the Holy Spirit to water the person's heart. It's the Spirit's fight :)

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

I do not believe any god to be a reality for I have never encountered any credible evidence that suggests such a reality. On the other hand I have every reason to believe gods are not real for yhey are not observable. Realities are phenomena that occur at a particular point in space (location) at a particular point in time and are observable at such location and time. Would you agree?

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

The reason is lack of sufficient evidence Writing down that miraculous things happened is not equivalent to proof

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

So Luke, or God, or Jesus, or whoever wrote that nonsense, is wrong. Pretty much anyone would believe if a verifiably dead person verifiably came back to life.

I did, but before each level of proof I had a choice to demonstrate I was open enough to receiving the next step of evidence that I was wrong and willing to submit to the truth. In fact, I had previously become an atheist for the same reason, albeit lacking evidence I now have and leaning too much on my own understanding. So I do think many people, like me, can be atheist during a journey of genuine truth-seeking and I pray for these people and also for the hard hearted. I think the arguments are beside the point. We can point toward reality but the observer's honesty is more fundamental than what we generally consider peer-reviewable objectivity. We are real observing objects.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

What evidence do you now have?

@soylatte1288

8 ай бұрын

@@lil-alwhat evidence do you have that the universe randomly created itself out of nothing and fine tuned itself?

@Ricebag1482

5 ай бұрын

​@@soylatte1288 man at this point imma just amazed why would people defend nihilism and "nothing" over purpose and "GOD" it really is sad.

It is impressive how in the gospel the ones that reject gos are his people, even he say’s with pain, the town where he came out did not believe in him, even though they were the ones with more evidence. Blessed those who believe without seeing.

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

This is about skepticism not rejection

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

one can't argue with that kind of nincompoop logic can one.

@2l84me8

11 ай бұрын

Only a fool believes without evidence.

@richardstevenwalz4968

11 ай бұрын

You mean stupid are those...

When the foundation is "god created everything," you can always ask, "who's fault is that?" So if you say that people are resistant to changing their beliefs because the "lizard part" of the brain activates, who's fault is that? Who was it that designed humans again? If you have an answer that isn't "god did it," then I can just ask again, to that answer, "who's fault is _that?"_ Whatever rationalization you try to throw up, it will always come back to god, because _literally everything_ comes back to god. _That's _*_supposed_*_ to be the point,_ isn't it? Who decided what the consequences of a "fallen world" would be? Who decided that human brains would be too puny to even comprehend god? Who decided that the divine would be inaccessible to any objective kinds of investigation? Every problem, and every excuse, always _has_ to come back to god's decision to make things that way.

@DorperSystems

Жыл бұрын

yeah, and? If you want to take fatalism to the extreme why aren't you a Calvinist?

@dancinswords

Жыл бұрын

@@DorperSystems This is a critique of any form of theism which puts god as the ultimate source of everything, and thus I'm not that kind of theist (I'm actually not any kind of theist). I suppose if I was, I would have to be something like a Calvinist, because they at least kind of own that fact, thought it's still problematic. The "yeah and" is that this fact undermines every excuse apologists try to make for their god... and this is an apologetics video featuring two apologists... so that's kind of relevant

@toonyandfriends1915

9 ай бұрын

Now i finally understand how in spite of every evidence that currently exists, i can still blame god and say therefore he does not exist, or i can't be blamed. Thank you. This is not said in an ironic tone by the way or in a mean spirited tone. Now i can finally understand why any evidence does not matter

@jackplumbridge2704

7 ай бұрын

"Whatever rationalization you try to throw up, it will always come back to god, because literally everything comes back to god. That's supposed to be the point, isn't it?" - No. People have free will.

@jackplumbridge2704

7 ай бұрын

@@toonyandfriends1915 "Now i finally understand how in spite of every evidence that currently exists, i can still blame god and say therefore he does not exist, or i can't be blamed." - But you can't. You have free will. You are responsible for your own decisions. You cannot blame God for your own free choices.

If Thor appears in front of you and many other people and show that he is real... say what you say, but you would believe in him.

@m_d1905

8 ай бұрын

I know this is a bit old, but people disbelieve things that are right in front of them all the time.

@vejeke

8 ай бұрын

@@m_d1905 If gods exist and one of them really wants you to believe in him or her, you will believe in him or her. Otherwise they do not deserve to be called gods. The rest are rationalizations that people, who believe in gods who specifically want us to believe in them, give to appease the cognitive dissonance they suffer from knowing that there are people who honestly do not believe in any of these invisible beings with magical powers.

@Dash-lb8cd

7 ай бұрын

​​@@vejekeAnybody with a rational mind can come to the conclusion that God exists, it's the exact same reason why over 90% of the world believe that God exists. Most of the time it's not about the evidence but people will continue to reject God because it requires a change and makes them realize that what they are doing is wrong or stomps their pride of realizing that they are not perfect and need guidance from the Creator.

@vejeke

7 ай бұрын

@@Dash-lb8cd 90% of the world's population believes in hundreds of contradictory gods. The largest group of all (at the moment, by the end of the century Muslims will outnumber them) are Christians, and they are about a third of the total population. And that is including Evangelicals, Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentacostals, Orthodox, Mormons, etc. in the same group as if they were the same thing. Imagine that as a kid you are being told that a particular invisible being with magical powers created the universe. Imagine you ended up developing a deep emotional need for that to be true. What is the expected outcome? You would probably ended up believing that's the rational conclusion... That the universe exists because a being created it. 'It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.'

Great talk! Which book by Michael Licona is he recommending? The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus (2004) or The Resurrection of Jesus (2010)? The first seems like the best fit, but the second one looks like a continuation (?).

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

christians ought to buy william lane craig's book(s), but if they don't like him, then they should buy sean mcdowells' book(s), but maybe they would prefer frank tureks book(s) or even mike liconah's, or gary habermas', one thing is for sure though, you won't buy jesus book cos he didn't have the foresight to write ANYTHING. he employed "ghost" writers.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas Yes but they were holy ghost writers.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

Don't waste your money on apologetics crap. Read a real book and open your mind.

Thank you.

Well my lizard brain must be deactivated because I always change my views on even the most personal held beliefs, and I find it exciting to be wrong because it causes me to learn and increase my intelligence.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

who cares why god hides, why does satan hide is what puzzles me. all he has to do is say hello and bang goes free will and gods plan - god is such a weak character in this fight.

@igorlopes7589

Ай бұрын

You are one in a million, it takes a lot of humility and submission to Truth to be as you are. Most human beings are not like you

I saw a Netflix show “Messiah” which got me thinking like this! Now, assume for a min the main character WAS indeed the messiah, people STILL didn’t believe him!

It's very even for Christians to still believe in Him. Most people wants to feel God, but God doesn't always work like that, most (if not all) of the time, you won't feel Him.

@stevenwiederholt7000

Жыл бұрын

When I accepted Jesus as my Lord & Savior wasn't overwhelmed by his love and forgiveness. It was more like a feeling of, Ok, That was then...This s Now...and things are going to be different. There Have been times when I have felt his love/presence, and Its WONDERFUL (and I spend the next couple of days with a Big Grin on my face, but that's not how I operate.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

@@stevenwiederholt7000 you do know jesus didn't write anything? and no one wrote anything about him until he was long dead? we have NO IDEA what jesus did or didn't say.

@stevenwiederholt7000

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas 1. Yes I do know that. "we have NO IDEA what jesus did or didn't say." Kudos to you for the silliest statement of the day. Long dead? Hardly Long.

@stevenwiederholt7000

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas KZread Search Babylon Bee If Jesus' Resurrection Were A Hoax

@MelancholicHiraeth

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas we literally have the gospels which document Christ's earthly ministry who's writings date back to the Church's infancy and authorship does indeed go to who they're credited to. Saying because Christ himself didn't write down anything personally and therefore we cannot know what he said is ridiculous, we have eyewitness reports of Him, his parables and his works from his disciples. If you're going to go so far to doubt that, then you're going to have a seriously difficult time verifying any historical event or speech or so on as a majority of writings come out AFTER an event happens, sometimes long after.

God was not hidden to the nation of Israel in the wilderness. They still disbelieved. Also, God was quite punitive for disbelief then. We are probably better off not offending God directly.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

it's just a story mate.

@charlesmuhmanson3928

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas Thanks for affirming the video.

@ramigilneas9274

Жыл бұрын

So there is no reason that God no longer performs those kind of miracles because people would still be able to reject him, right?

@charlesmuhmanson3928

Жыл бұрын

@@ramigilneas9274 You have it backwards. The heart of man can distort anything to justify his sin. Consider abortion, a living, maturing life with human DNA is definitively human life. What I was pointing out, if we rejected God to his face after he just performed miracles we might incur the wrath of God for that rejection. By staying hidden, we are safer to deny him in this life.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

@@charlesmuhmanson3928 God really should test out your theory though, I think you might be surprised. You are obviously just making excuses for his hiddenness, and we are on to you.

I don't care what anyone says but i believe in God and that's because i saw Mother Mary herself when i was at a young age . I guess you called it apparition.

@renierramirez9534

Ай бұрын

How do you know was Mother Mary?

lol, always nice when someone tells other people, who he's never met, that he knows their minds better than they ever could... before claiming not to psychoanalyze anyone. Then, he contradicts his own argument by talking about his own experience regarding evolution. What utter garbage.

From personal experience: NO! As a self-proclaimed “convinced atheist” I mocked the religious and insisted I would believe if I ever encountered “evidence”. Then one day I had a supernatural encounter with the demonic in such a way that there could be no doubt (the things I learned and heard and saw I KNOW I had no prior knowledge of and turned out to be real, Occult related stuff). I got my precious “evidence”, the one thing I insisted would make me worship God, and it changed nothing. Actually it made my spiritual condition worse because I got into the Occult because of it. Atheism is an act of the will. I didn’t WANT God to exist. I found out the devil was real and my hardened heart preferred satan to God. I used reason to justify my decision. Do you think the spiritual state of most people who call themselves atheists (not agnostics) is any different? Yet God didn’t leave me to my sin but showed me the evil I was messing with for what it was. I didn’t deserve to be saved (none of us do). I eventually sought God again, eventually became a Christian, and eventually joined a Church- the Catholic Church. Fulton Sheen is spot on when he says: “As all men are touched by God’s love, so all are also touched by the desire for His intimacy. No one escapes this longing; we are all kings in exile, miserable without the Infinite. Those who reject the grace of God have a desire to avoid God, as those who accept it have a desire for God. The modern atheist does not disbelieve because of his intellect, but because of his will; it is not knowledge that makes him an atheist…The denial of God springs from a man’s desire not to have a God-from his wish that there were no Justice behind the universe, so that his injustices would fear not retribution; from his desire that there be no Law, so that he may not be judged by it; from his wish that there were no Absolute Goodness, that he might go on sinning with impunity. That is why the modern atheist is always angered when he hears anything said about God and religion-he would be incapable of such a resentment if God were only a myth. His feeling toward God is the same as that which a wicked man has for one whom he has wronged: he wishes he were dead so that he could do nothing to avenge the wrong. The betrayer of friendship knows his friend exists, but he wished he did not; the post-Christian atheist knows God exists, but he desires He should not.” -Fulton J. Sheen There is no such thing as atheism.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

I do not believe any part of your ridiculous account for you have failed to include even one evidentiary fact. I happen to hold the position of atheism. So to state there is no such position is to be dishonest. Atheism is the position of suspending any acknowledgement as to the existence of a god until sufficient credible evidence is introduced.

@Jordan-eh3fv

Жыл бұрын

@@Theo_Skeptomai my friend, what do you want, a book? My suspicion here is that you just don’t like that my experience threatens your worldview so you’re responding to it with the same pretentiousness the main video calls out. With God as my witness I have told to you no lie. My suspicions is that you don’t believe in God because you don’t want to believe in God. The premise of atheism is that you would believe if shown evidence, as if an intellectual assent to faith would change anything in your heart. My story is testament and of the fact that this is false. At least it was in my case. That kind of faith is worthless. “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder!” ‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭19‬ ‭ESV‬‬. Even if I were to raise someone from the dead with all the proofs of a supernatural event you would want, would your heart really change? A purely intellectual faith is worthless to God. People saw Jesus perform miracles and in their hearts still did not believe. People saw Moses perform miracles, and still turned from God. “If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭16‬:‭31‬ ‭ESV‬‬

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

@@Jordan-eh3fv I want you to be truthful, but that is not going to happen. At least not today.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

@@Jordan-eh3fv Your suspicion is WRONG.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

@@Jordan-eh3fv WRONG. I do not believe any to be real because I haven't encountered any evidence whatsoever that suggests such a reality.

And thats just true facts people have reacted to this video literally making ur point true , man what have the society come to ,defending nihilistic views and no meaning to life and then they think that they are superior to the ones with meaning.

I think most atheists know God exists in their heart of hearts but would still oppose God even if they had definitive proof. They don't want to be accountable to anyone ...especially God. In this context, it's not a problem of the reason but of the will.

@chrisboe2192

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, we should see if that's true. Oh wait we can't because you don't have any definitive proof😅😅😅

@Saint_nobody

Жыл бұрын

Exactly why I say there's no such thing as an atheist. They're at best a disenfranchised deist, at worst distance, antagonistic agnostic. And just like the -tism, that shit is on a spectrum! 😂

@michaelorsini9695

Жыл бұрын

@@chrisboe2192See...you prove my point.

@captainch6182

Жыл бұрын

@@chrisboe2192 Aquinas’s five ways, Feser’s proofs, etc.

@chrisboe2192

Жыл бұрын

Um, no. I didn't. You made a baseless and vacuous claim that athiests wouldn't believe in god even if they were presented with definitive proof. I rightly pointed out we could never find that out considering you have no definitive proof. In no way does that prove your point

I did. I was a miraculous, on-the-spot convert from over 20 years of atheism, including years of activism with American Atheists. Jesus appeared to me after a TLM in an SSPX chapel, and then He performed a dramatic public medical miracle one minute later, proving that I hadn't just hallucinated. I had to change my mind and accept the truth on the spot. So, yeah. I loved the truth. True, though, that not all atheists do. But neither do all Catholics. Because a lot of people aren't going to like the following truth. Buckle in. God converted me at the SSPX. And this was AFTER He chose not to convert me at either the FSSP (Epiphany Vigil) earlier that week or at a regular Novus Ordo Sunday worship service/"Mass" the weekend before. I went to church for the first time in 20 years and visited the "reverent" NO I grew up in, but God didn't convert me there. Days later I checked out the cuck-sell-out FSSP out of curiosity. It wasn't awful like every NO, but God chose not to convert me there either. He chose to convert me the SSPX the following weekend, with a vision and a miracle that are a story one would never ever hear in a NO or FSSP. Pretty clear who He favors. The miracle was far more impressive than what was just used to beatify JP I, btw. I solemnly swear the above upon pain of Mortal Sin, before God and the entire heavenly court, and I call God as my witness. Given that, so God help anyone who dares to doubt the truth of my solemn testimony. And God help anyone who does not love the truth.

I believed Aquinas once said "With faith, no proof is nesscary. Without faith, to proof is possible."

@vejeke

Жыл бұрын

Faith is not a reliable pathway to know the truth but a shortcut to self-deception.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

have you got anything of your own to say? i like how people pretend to be intellectual by trying to purloin quotes, but what do YOU think? or do you just do whatever aquinas says?

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Oh so the only way to believe in god is to just already believe in god. Aka, there is no actual reason to believe it. Thank you

it’s a fair point though, because like what if you prayed and got a response? Then the simplest explanation is schizophrenia

"First, accept that you do want your current belief to be true." - absolute hogwash. Not everyone wants their current understanding of things to be true. Maybe he suffers from pride, but plenty of ppl think something is X when they wish it was Y.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

He even says in the video that he doesn’t want to believe true things, he wants the things he believes to be true. He isn’t trying to avoid biases, he’s diving headfirst as hard and fast as he can into them.

Trying to make peace with the fact that I am human and that means that I am de facto wrong on so many things, in so many ways has been the the most humbling factor in walking with God. I daily must forgive myself for being wrong and ask for grace not to hold it against God for being so.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

not really.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Funny how this exercise of understanding you might be wrong never seems to extend to your belief in God. Maybe you should be making amends to the people you actually wronged instead of just wishing in your head to be forgiven and then pretending it’s ok now

eye roll

Please have Nick Fuentes on! It would be such a great conversation.

@Seethi_C

Жыл бұрын

Cringe

@RacingSnails64

Жыл бұрын

Nick is a white nationlist and his followers lie about him being one. There is no place for that kind of thought in Christ's Church, for Jesus himself accepted everyone no matter their race. He made the point multiple times throughout the Gospels to accept the "dirty" Samaritan people. "Salvation is from the Jews." -Jesus to the Samaritan woman in John 4. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, nor male nor female, for all are one in Christ Jesus." -Apostle Paul in Galations 3.

@Seethi_C

Жыл бұрын

@@RacingSnails64 The fact that people think this Gen Z “thought leader” is someone to look to is laughable.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

@@RacingSnails64 white nationalism has been a part of the Catholic Church ever since the Germans started the tradition in the 40s

Showed a friend the Eucharistic Miracles and still doesn’t believe.

@alias908

Жыл бұрын

they witnessed them live ?

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

Thinking that a cookie is a person is not a miracle A cookie will remain a cookie no matter how much anyone attempts to personify it

@d.v.184

Жыл бұрын

@@sydneybell-by8vh im quite sure u didn't get what he was talking about

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

who cares why god hides, why does satan hide is what puzzles me. all he has to do is say hello and bang goes free will and gods plan - god is such a weak character in this fight.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

probably cos they aren't miracles.

it really is a stupid idea that atheists have some prejudice against religion being true, i don't believe there is anything supernatural, but as a human i would have to be really dumb to say "it's impossible", if i got into an argument with someone about unicorns, i'm pretty certain that unicorns can't be found anywhere on earth, but to dismiss the possibility they can be found on arcturus would be extremely silly - i only bet on sure things. if you're an atheist and you are certain about anything, then you're not really aware of the scientific method, i'm happy to say god doesn't exist - in this universe, in this reality, in this part of the cosmos - god doesn't exist at all? how can i know that. same as a religist saying he does - as he's never put in an appearance then you can't say that god exists either. your "revelation" can be accounted for in any number of ways other than god. to say otherwise is lying to yourself.

@toonyandfriends1915

9 ай бұрын

okay but like, there are no evidences for unicorns, the theist claims that there are evidence for god or jesus' resurrection. Do you have any arguments as to why something like unicorns could certainly exist , except on contigency?

I find this very interesting. If it is an accepted fact that people have natural resistance to changing core beliefs that they associate with their identity; then surely damning people for lack of belief is even more counter-intuitive. It seems like the deck is being stacked against people who were born and raised outside of an explicitly Catholic setting, because the first time they encounter it might be after their "world view defences" are fully entrenched, and we know from psychology that we are hard-wired (literally born that way) to protect those pillar beliefs and the worldview they hold up. Likewise, this surely applies to the fact that I can present evidence for certain political or philosophical positions contrary to the ones that Matt and Michael hold, and they would dismiss that evidence in exactly the same fashion. I suppose the most honest thing I can say is "I hope that, should I be presented evidence of or have a personal encounter with Christ or such, I would have the intellectual honesty and fortitude to accept that, whatever it might mean."

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

it;s not that complicated mate, either you think god is real and jesus came back, or you don't, only religists get so much angst over religion. frankly it's nothing but stories, more mythology.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

It's not supposed to make sense. It;s religion.

I don’t believe because I’m not convinced and every time I engage with theists, they either bring up fallacious arguments, follow a script, or they pretend they know what’s in my head better than me. I’m not convinced of your god and the fact your lot prefer to generalize why nonbelievers aren’t convinced of poor apologists talking points only fuels disbelief further. If neither you nor your hidden god cares enough to convince me, then why should I care?

I am still waiting to see Michael without a beard

What I get from this conversation is that it doesn’t matter what you tell Apologist like IP about why you reject their evidence, their arguments or their conclusions. To maintain their belief that the evidence is really good and to prevent cognitive dissonance they will simply assume that you reject the evidence for reasons that are independent of the quality of the evidence.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. They aren’t using these brain studies as a way to better themself and make sure they stay clear of resistances and biases. They use these studies to say “so _everyone else_ that disagrees with me is just biased and resisting the truth.” Like he said in the video, he doesn’t want to believe true things, he wants the things he believes to be true. What an amazing Freudian slip

@richardstevenwalz4968

11 ай бұрын

YUP!

@lysanderofsparta3708

8 ай бұрын

I think your comment proves his point. Whatever evidence he presents, you will simply move the goalposts further and further back so you can keep rejecting it.

@lysanderofsparta3708

8 ай бұрын

@@Faint366 And what's your excuse? Jones admits his shortcomings and still goes out his way to provide mountains of facts, evidence and good sound arguments in his videos, whereas you provide nothing but snarky petulant complaints so you can congratulate yourself and feel smug.

@ramigilneas9274

8 ай бұрын

@@lysanderofsparta3708 Because his evidence is pathetic… I don’t shift anything… show me verifiable evidence instead of unfalsifiable arguments that get rejected by all actual experts.😂

so why IP doesnt believe evolution anymore?

This was brilliant. I need to go watch the whole interview

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

who cares why god hides, why does satan hide is what puzzles me. all he has to do is say hello and bang goes free will and gods plan - god is such a weak character in this fight.

@zakkonieczka6811

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas Christian theology doesn't entertain manichean notions of Satan as an equal and opposite force of God. Also Satan doesn't "hide" even most secular atheist believe in some form of demonology they just accredit it to unseen forces inside our minds waiting to be discovered by some unknown technology designed to find some undiscovered natural phenomenon.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

This was not brilliant. It was more christian excuses to hide the fact that their god isn't real.

@Reformedortho

8 ай бұрын

"bang goes free will" what?😂if God was so weak against satan why did he banish him ? its not Gods fault you let satan have power over you lol@@HarryNicNicholas

Even if a person had proof God exists it does not mean they would follow him.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

And.....your point?

@kayleeprince

Жыл бұрын

So ? That's not the question We can't even be in a position to make that decision if we don't even think he exists

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Ok? So that means that being given proof of God does not in any way violate free will. And it also means that there’s absolutely no harm in God giving everyone proof of himself the same way he did for Paul in the Bible. That alone entirely discounts IP’s terrible argument in this video

Who should decide what qualifies as compelling evidence for a god? I'm a Doctor of Atheism, so me, right? 🤣No! Our top scientists? Nuh uh. The Pope? Nope. I'll let any Xian decide! That's right! You say what you would accept as definitive, objective proof FOR - or short of that, rational justification for belief IN - a god _other than yours_ and we'll set that as the standard, 'kay? 🤣😎

There is a difference between "not having evidence" and "not wanting evidence." Those who do not want evidence will always claim that there is none. This is the nature of personal bias. This is Atheism. What is the evidence of God? Literally everything in existence showcases the creative mind. Isaac Newton said, "In the absence of any other evidence, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence." Nature has a lot more impressive artwork than the thumb. Perhaps a better question would be "can we objectively analyze the available facts without letting personal bias polute the conclusion?"

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

Do you even recognize your fallacious argument?

@kayleeprince

Жыл бұрын

No it has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting evidence, that's not how it works. People are compelled to believe what they think is true regardless of what they want or don't want. If a person doesn't believe than the evidence was insufficient

@GhostBearCommander

Жыл бұрын

@@kayleeprince "If a person doesn't believe, the evidence wasn't sufficient." Tell that to the people who deny the Moon Landing. And tell that to Flat Earth Conspiracy Theorists. The reality is, human beings don't work that way. Millions s of people around the world believe lots of oddball things, despite overwhelmingly sufficient evidence to the contrary. Unfortunately, most human beings are governed by their emotions rather than by facts.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

Ah yes, nothing is as traditionally Christian as telling everyone else what they believe and calling people you don’t know and have never met dishonest because your fragile belief can’t persist unless you tell yourself everyone else is malicious and mean spirited

@GhostBearCommander

Жыл бұрын

@@Faint366 As if this comment isn't doing the exact same thing... 😏

Mr. Jones you are brilliant thank you and may God bless you and yours

I was an athiest and what made me believe in God was Jesus Christ his story.

This is especially true for internet influencers. Most people don't want to accept that their biased, especially people who claim to "have no real position".

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

Are you aware of _any evidentiary facts_ that demonstrate the reality of a god?

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

the trick is to see your bias and adjust for it, that's why science works, every scientist is biased but every other scientist is out to show they are wrong, so you can be as biased as you want - all that matters is that you get YOUR hypothesis right.

@toonyandfriends1915

9 ай бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas every historian are out to show that other hypothesis are wrong too!

I as an atheist would believe but not worship if it was truly the God of the old testament who is so jealous and had children killed by bears for calling a guy bald I would call him an immoral tyrant on my way to hell.

Somebody once said to me that the way you can tell what someone truly believes is for them to go through a life-or-death situation, or at least where they genuinely believe they may die, all I'm saying is that in the cut, how many of them look up?

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

how does that verify the existence or otherwise of god? all that does is show that a person is human and will ask for help from ANYONE when the time comes.

@nicolab2075

Жыл бұрын

I don't think it tells you anything except how desperate they might be. Although for the record, when I thought I might choke to death,god never crossed my mind.

I had a student once tell me "If Jesus Christ came from Heaven, appeared before me, and said 'I am God.,' then I would believe Him." I responded with "Not necessarily. Because He already did that, and we killed Him for it."

@leongkhengneoh6581

Жыл бұрын

And you believed the hearsay

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day"

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

yeah sure, whatever. you do realise that when people just reel off bible quotes it's called "brainwashed" can you folks not think up a new saying of your own? there is more than one book on the planet you know.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

The ball is in god's court then. I will just get on with my life until he decides to act.

the concept of salvation is incoherent tho

How many people don't believe because they like their sins and don't want to believe there are any consequences for that? I know there are people who get quite upset when they are told they are sinners and the last thing they want is to spend time in a church where they are confronted with a message that tells them just that.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

109,674. I (nor anyone for that matter) have never sinned and I won't get upset when you claim that I have. So your assertion that some person don't want to believe because they "like their sins" is utter nonsense.

@alias908

Жыл бұрын

which sins ?

@Jay_in_Japan

Жыл бұрын

This is such a detached, Christian POV, that people don't believe because they enjoy sinning. It's like atheists saying that Christians believe because they enjoy being subservient.

@soulcutterx13

Жыл бұрын

@@alias908 Have you ever done something you knew you ought not to have? Or left undone something you knew you ought to have done? That's sin. That's what we mean by sin, and the reason you ought to have, or not have, done it was because it was good.

@kayleeprince

Жыл бұрын

*How many people don't believe because they like their sins and don't want to believe?* 0.0 That's not how belief works. Belief isn't dependent on what people want or don't want. People are compelled to believe what is true whether they want to or not. If a person doesn't believe than the evidence was insufficient

I put this question to my atheist FB friends one If I could prove all of Christianity's claims were true , would you become a Christian I got 6 responses 4 basically said "no because God doesn't exist" (one clarified "because science" and another "because of all the gays that Christian's have stoned" 😳 ) 1 said "well I'd have to be I have a load of questions about why the world is so bad" 1 flipped the question "if I could prove he didn't would you become an Atheist?" His claim being that not believing in God, religion etc made one (or at least he felt had made him) a better, calmer, more compassionate person. I agreed I would be calmer because I'd be justified in caring less about things but that just someelse telling me that "just because you're an Atheist doesn't mean you don't care" and no amount of claiming that that wasn't what I was implying could convince him of that 🤷‍♂️

@kayleeprince

Жыл бұрын

If I could prove all of Christianity's claims were false, would you become an atheist ?

@liambrennan7410

Жыл бұрын

@@kayleeprince No, I'd become a nihilist

@Tinesthia

Жыл бұрын

I would answer. Depends on which claims of Christianity you are talking about, since even Christians don't agree on many things. Universalism? ECT? In some versions I may become a Christian. In others, following a God with such a poor moral character would be undesirable. ECT is the worst example of this. Having the power to save children but choosing not to use it. I don't need you to follow or agree with me for me to not let you get run over by a bus if I could stop it, even if you jumped in front of it. Surely a morally good God would be even greater than I, and not let created conscious beings suffer needlessly in life, or in an eternal afterlife, regardless of their choices made with their limited minds.

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

Since you cannot prove that ANY of christianity's claims are true, however, the question is moot.

@liambrennan7410

10 ай бұрын

@@lil-al You clearly have seen through my hypothetical ruse....

I got evidence and I started believed but it was over time and in multiple areas. I think people just need evidence in multiple areas and to dislodge multiple incorrect assumptions. Catholicism is a complex belief system- it's not really black or white. There are also emotional reasons where they hope that it is not true. Balancing the needs of the self vs society is difficult and catholicism may seem like a hopeless situation to some where additional coping and adapting skills are needed. Some ideas need time to digest.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

who cares why god hides, why does satan hide is what puzzles me. all he has to do is say hello and bang goes free will and gods plan - god is such a weak character in this fight.

A dead man can do nothing. They can’t accept.

It’s called cognitive dissonance

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

i bet you can't define that without looking it up.

@BibleLovingLutheran

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas sir, one only need see how your people make excuses to stay in their ignorance of the errors infiltrated into the Roman Church to see the definition in action.

@BibleLovingLutheran

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas funny how you insult one’s intelligence just because you are in cognitive dissonance.

@ramigilneas9274

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, it’s a textbook example of cognitive dissonance. Christians think that the evidence for Christianity is amazing. But all people who aren’t Christians think that the evidence for Christianity is very weak. So instead of accepting that the evidence isn’t as good as they thought Christians invent a silly explanation that helps them rationalize why most people disagree with them. The evidence can not be bad because it was good enough to convince me… so the only way to deal with the cognitive dissonance is to assume that people reject the evidence for other reasons that don’t have anything to do with the evidence.😂

"If you will not hear the truth, no one can tell you." - Claudia to Pontius Pilate in The Passion of The Christ.

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

That's not the problem, I can hear what someone says and not think that what they are saying is true

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

isn't it great that people with no imagination have other people's quotes to (try) to make them sound profound. "do-be-do-be-do" frank sinatra.

@Epiousios18

Жыл бұрын

@@HarryNicNicholas So I have “no imagination” because I posted a relevant quote I thought of while watching the clip? Haha, okay.

my experience is that there are atheists who will say: 'There is no evidence'. I ask them: 'What evidence would you accept?' Then there is silence. They never really thought about it.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

I will accept ANY credible evidence. Are you aware of any _evidentiary facts_ that demonstrate any god to be a reality? Yes or no.

@alias908

Жыл бұрын

now thats a crucial point. how is god charakterised ? for what do i have to look that can be, at least with a certain quality, assured its actually him ?

@AnotherViewer

Жыл бұрын

What evidence would you accept that the Greek Pantheon actually was real? If the god you are arguing for has the attributes of "all knowing" and "all powerful" then that god would know exactly the evidence I would need to believe in it.

@MyMy-tv7fd

Жыл бұрын

@@AnotherViewer so you have no answer either

@AnotherViewer

Жыл бұрын

@@MyMy-tv7fd Yet, I did answer the question. You not liking the answer is not my problem. Just like the god in question not providing the evidence needed to be convinced of it's existence is also not my problem.

Is Michael Jones willing to believe Allah if got proof? He is just projecting his own behavoir onto others.

@mangotanianmovies2538

2 ай бұрын

I mean Allah is the same god as the Hebrew god. Just translated into Arabic.

Even with proof, they wouldn’t believe. Luke 16:31. “… they would not believe even if a man rises from the dead.”

@AnotherViewer

Жыл бұрын

Sufficient proof will change my minds. Now, if I worship or follow the god in question is a completely different topic.

@Jay_in_Japan

Жыл бұрын

I'm an atheist and I would. Why do you take what some 1st century AD writer said about non-believers over what an actual, living non-believer, with whom you can converse, says?

@seanthompson5077

Жыл бұрын

@@Jay_in_Japan God does not work that way. You are not called to believe based on proof. That is totally futile with the Lord.

@MelancholicHiraeth

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I've had plenty of times where I talk to someone about the legitimacy of miracles, I brought up the Marian apparitions and the Eucharist miracles and that apparently wasn't enough. Like what more do you want, an apparition to appear to you specifically? That'd just be silly.

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

If even one person doesn't believe, than the "proof" isn't sufficient

who cares why god hides, why does satan hide is what puzzles me. all he has to do is say hello and bang goes free will and gods plan - god is such a weak character in this fight.

@MelancholicHiraeth

Жыл бұрын

You can reckon plenty of reasons why they may stay hidden, doesn't really matter. Even if they do reveal themselves to you or other people, that doesn't destroy free will or God's plan. In the end God will win no matter what, the demons know that. I have no idea how you came to any of those conclusions.

Would theists recognize that the things they are using as proof are not in fact proof if they are shown the evidence? Lol. I think it far less likely than vice versa

@toonyandfriends1915

9 ай бұрын

i mean yeah he said it goes both ways. But most theist are not this arrogant though when you say "it is far less likely"

Don't you think a God could convince an atheist Instead of complaining about atheist you should try coming up with some proof to your claim

How I feel with defending my LDS faith. 😂

@tacotuesday1960

Жыл бұрын

Yeah there’s a reason the Book of Mormon tells us to ask the spirit and not our own logic. No one makes serious life decisions based on reason and logic as much as we lie to ourselves otherwise.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

@@tacotuesday1960 it’s amazing to me how you can hear “don’t think just obey and never question what you’re told” and come away thinking “mmm yes this is definitely the way to the truth and I’m not just in a cult started by a convicted conman”

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

Yes it probably works for all superstitions - now that's a bit sus, isn't it?

Some of us would actually. And what y'all describe as miracles and divination would simple be natural science beyond our understanding. We aren't cynical, we're skeptical. Fantastical claims require fantastical evidence. And there is none. The bible like all other holy books are just great literature but a snapshot of humanities insecurities and imagination. We like answers, so we made stuff up until science caught up. It's easy now to come to this conclusion now after millennia of fumbling in the dark. But if I were born in 900 BC, illiterate and a cattle farmer or slave, I would have been a believer instead. Love your channel though. No hate.

@chrisAN3681

10 ай бұрын

This is sort of verbal gymnastics and sophistry that made me give up on atheism. 😊

Mike is such a liar and a charlatan. He doesn’t use these studies about brain activity to better himself and try to make sure he’s accounting for his own resistances and biases. He uses them to add to the wall he puts between himself and objectivity. His response to reading a study about brain activity isn’t “oh, I should make extra sure I don’t fall into this trap.” It’s “oh, so _everyone else_ who disagrees with me is just biased and resistant to the truth.” That’s why he cries when he gets something as small as a fact about exodus wrong. Like he said in the video, he doesn’t want to believe true things, he wants the things he believes to be true. He’s diving headfirst as hard and fast as he can into being biased and resisting outside information.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

For his argument to work no one in the history of humanity could have ever changed their mind about anything they strongly believed, especially from non-Christian to Christian. And yet this whole circle jerk of a comment section is full of Christians telling their conversion story. You guys even give two examples in this video about how you were resistant to something and still changed your mind. If we look at Paul from the Bible, he was so opposed to christianity that he was killing christians and yet when God showed himself to Paul he changed his mind. Most American atheists are ex-Christians who strongly held their faith until they were forced to give it up because of evidence. Or are you just going to say that none of them “were really true christians” while also in the next breath talking about how you totally don’t psycho-analyze people?

i wouldn't say im impartial but i struggled with the truth of Christianity as i had left but looking at the evidence i couldn't deny my lord

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

i've been atheist all my 69 years and i really don't struggle at all, it's really simple, either there is a god or there isn't - and to me it's purely stories - and either jesus came back from the dead or he didn't, and no one comes back from the dead - where's the angst in that? you lot love raiment tearing and "having doubts" - bunch of drama queens is all religists are, grow up.

what is up with this guy's voice?

I was an atheist who refused to listen to any "personal/miraculous" experiences that christians shared. I thought faith was superstitious nonsense. I only believed what I saw in the physical world around me, then I had an encounter with the living Christ which shocked my reptilian brain. I was filled with an unnerving urge had to find out who He was and what just happened but I was also frightened of knowing who He was because deep down I already knew it was Jesus.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

And I don't believe a word of that nonsense.

@AnotherViewer

Жыл бұрын

Without having to tell me your story, what if someone told you the same thing that happened to you, happened to them, but it was a completely different god that they attributed the event to? Would you switch to their religion?

@AnotherViewer

Жыл бұрын

@@evelists9563 They are sharing their experience because they think it is convincing. When really, it is not.

@AnotherViewer

Жыл бұрын

@@evelists9563 Yes, it is not about me or you. It is about them really thinking if their story is actually true or not.

@Jay_in_Japan

Жыл бұрын

@Eve Lists "No one asked you..." Yeah, that's how comments work, you absolute genius

The roman sun god was born december 25 th .. when Jesus was born their were shepherds grazing their sheep in nearby fields .. it snows in israel during winter. Jesus couldnt have been born in the December which is smack in the middle of winter .. christmas has a lot of pagan rituals .. plus Jesus never preached Christianity.. he said if you believe in Him you receive power to become children of God not a christian. You come into the kingdom of God not yoi come into the christian religion. The bible is about God, His kingdom and His children. Not about a religion called Christianity or judaism

God is NOT a concept.

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

There's a concept of God 🤨

@jonah9861

Жыл бұрын

@@Qwerty-jy9mj Concepts can embrace just some characteristics. But the relative will never embrace the absolute.

That's why man speak, but it is the Holy Spirit that converts. Great chat with two great mates, IP and PWA.

That's true that it really doesn't matter how much evidence you show people. The Israelites themselves witnessed all of the plagues of Egypt and were saved from extermination by having the Red Sea open up for them and wash away Pharaoh's Army behind them. Even with all that, within weeks they wanted to go back to Egypt and accused God of wanting them to die.

@therick363

Жыл бұрын

It’s also true that it really doesn’t matter how much evidence you show people….that applies to theists as well.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

The problem you and IP have is you’re trying to say “some people didn’t believe even tho they were given evidence so that means every atheist will also reject evidence that’s given to them.” That would require that not a single person in all of human history converted to Christianity based on evidence that was given to them. Your own book has a story of someone called Paul, you might have heard of him? He’s a very big name in most Christian circles. See, Paul was a non-Christian who hated Christianity so much that he actually killed Christians. Then one day Jesus showed himself to Paul and Paul converted to Christianity and became one of its most foundational writers. That story alone would prove that what you and IP are saying is absolute trash.

God exists. Creation is real. Science confirms this. There is empirical evidence written in our DNA that proves the one true Living God. I recommend reading the book The Code of Creation: The Seal of the Living God.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

No gods exists. No gods are real. Science confirms this. There is empirical evidence written in our DNA that proves there is no god. I recommend thinking rationally. See how that works?

@alias908

Жыл бұрын

source: trust me

@redeemed99

Жыл бұрын

​@@alias908bro forgot the bro☠️

@soylatte1288

8 ай бұрын

@@alias908so someone gives a book reccommendation and you hand wave it off?

Not necessarily : After Jesus rules for 1000 years, the nations He ruled over will be deceived by satan and will rebel.

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

And how did you determine this? Please share the data you analyzed and the methodologies you employed to reach such a conclusion.

We're all atheists. You don't believe in 9,999 gods, I don't believe in 10,000. Just one more- _your_ god. If you, as an atheist with regards to Allah, saw proof that Allah was real, would you believe?

probably not the best foresight to make a religion based off of belief in a proposition, then

All this effort in a God that is a no effort God, doesnt even have the time to show up and ring the bell, and yet the Scientific Method has voluminous works and proofs that explain itself and put forth the progress of humanity. Meanwhile Christians be like... "If you only you JUST BELIEVE". Cry more.

@chrisAN3681

10 ай бұрын

???? 😂

@soylatte1288

8 ай бұрын

You have LOTS of faith to think the universe randomly created and fine tuned itself

I always say to atheists: “So. You believe all this _just happened_ ? That is so difficult to believe. How do you do it?!”

@kayleeprince

Жыл бұрын

that's very condescending

@Tinesthia

Жыл бұрын

I always say to the non-Hellenists: "So you believe that Lighting strikes just happen? That is so difficult to believe, how do you do it?!"

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

why are religists so afraid of atheists? we don't have any rules to follow, we don't have a hell, we don't have a book you have to read, you don't have to cut anything off your body, you aren't required to persecute anyone, we don't consider people outside our group as "evil" or "sinners", secular non religious countries are doing really well and in fact are least likely to get involved in wars, we are only 3-4% of the population, i for one don't even want you on my team, stay religist, cos on average your IQ is six points lower than mine, humanists even advocate for all religions to have a voice - i think religists are envious of our freedom, we aren't scared of hell and we don't care what gods say and we decide on rules democratically, not by dictator.

@HarryNicNicholas

Жыл бұрын

no, of course it didn't _just happen_ you really need to do something about your thinking skills cos i'd say you have one crappy brain if that's the best you can do.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

You should try listening to the answer they give instead of just being a jerk

I find that the epistemology of most atheists wouldn’t allow for a belief in God.

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

Has nothing to do with allowing or not allowing, it has to do with the evidence being insufficient

@Captnsouthpaw

Жыл бұрын

@@sydneybell-by8vh I’d be willing to bet that a miracle happening in front of your face wouldn’t be considered sufficient evidence for many atheists. Which would imply an epistemology that would reject theism in any case.

@Captnsouthpaw

Жыл бұрын

@@sydneybell-by8vh I’d be willing to bet that a miracle happening in front of your face wouldn’t be considered sufficient evidence for many atheists. Which would imply an epistemology that would reject theism in any case.

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

@@Captnsouthpaw Well you would loose that bet, if the evidence was sufficient than by definition it would succeed in convincing the person

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

@@Captnsouthpaw Also its a logical fallacy to argue about what would happen in a hypothetical scenario

There were people in the Bible who actually witnessed Jesus's miracles and still denied him.

@49perfectss

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Can't violate free will by giving good evidence even by their skewed standards.

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

And there were people in the Bible who opposed Christianity to the point of murdering christians and then converted when they were shown the truth. One example doesn’t prove a rule, but one counter example does disprove a rule. IP is entirely wrong here

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

@@49perfectss how does giving evidence violate free will? Even OP said that some people still rejected God after being given evidence. So surely that would mean that the best course would be for God to give everyone evidence, and if they still choose to turn away then that’s up to them

@49perfectss

Жыл бұрын

@@Faint366 ? I think you misread my comment. I was saying you CAN'T violate free will by giving good evidence. Looking at my post it was sloppily worded but in my defense I was rather drunk when making it lol

@Faint366

Жыл бұрын

@@49perfectss well then I think we probably agree

This is some next level cope about not having any good evidence! This is, "I totally have a girlfriend but she lives in Canada" except for theism lol. The fact is that he knows there is no good evidence or we would all know it already. It's pathetic that these people have to be so incredibly childish rather than just grow up and acknowledge magic isn't real.

@ninjaked1265

Жыл бұрын

There is good evidence for God if you look at the historical narrative and the Eucharistic miracles and the Marian apparitions but you won’t look deep into them because you don’t want to be wrong.

@49perfectss

Жыл бұрын

@@ninjaked1265 give me your absolute best single piece of evidence. Independently verifiable or it's not evidence it's just a claim. Blow me away. I have only been studying this for two decades so I'm totally uninformed and your argument is going to be solid and undeniable... Right? Totally not some garbage I have heard a thousand times.

@49perfectss

Жыл бұрын

@@ninjaked1265 Cat got your tongue? Or are you just now realizing how empty your claim is? I have looked for evidence as a Christian and as an atheist and found nothing. Here I thought you were going to save my soul! Lol grow up kid. There is no invisible angry sky wizard that cares if you masturbate. That's just what ancient ignorant people made up because they didn't understand the world around them so they told stories like they had for hundreds of thousands of years. We know better now. Well... Some of us do anyway 🙄

@soylatte1288

8 ай бұрын

Still waiting on the “proof” for the universe randomly creating itself and fine tuning itself out of nothing. And for the hard problem of consciousness to be solved. 💅

@49perfectss

8 ай бұрын

@@soylatte1288 lol cute you think god of the gaps is a good argument 😄

No, God's existence couldn't be more evident. God is an intangible being, without form, beginning or end. He isn't a being that can be detected by the natural senses or by natural means, if that is what people are erroneously going by. He is spirit and only those who seek him find him, and only those who live spiritual lives will experience him, unless he is seeking you out for some specific reason. But even then he knows who will be responsive to his call. Nobody stumbles upon God, and no one goes to heaven or hell by accident. God created us to mirror his own nature, meaning we are also spiritual beings with rational minds. We have enough within us to know he exists by logic and reason. Incidentally, although God cannot be detected through natural means, he did actually become a man and has offered us plenty of proof in the natural sense also. But they don't want to believe that either. And why? Because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. They choose sin, the pleasures of 'this' world and the pursuits, ambitions and fascinations of this life instead of seeking God and his kingdom. This is why they can't see, why they can't perceive, why they can't rationalise with the logical mind God gave them his 'obvious' existence.

@myrddingwynedd2751

Жыл бұрын

@@sydneybell-by8vh False. In your prideful foolishness you`re being dishonest with everyone and yourself. God`s existence is logically evident without physical evidence. Don`t make excuses for yourself.

@myrddingwynedd2751

Жыл бұрын

@Sydney Bell If the person doesn't believe they are in denial. It is denial because it's obvious to those who use their logical mind. You don't believe because you don't want to, and you don't want because of the reasons I gave in the OP. Like it or not that is the truth, and your stubbornness and willful ignorance will bring you into judgement.

@myrddingwynedd2751

Жыл бұрын

@Kaylee Prince Everyone on earth has the capacity to logically deduce God's existence. If you are not doing so it's because you don't want to do so.

@myrddingwynedd2751

Жыл бұрын

@@kayleeprince It has everything to do with logic. It doesn`t matter if you want God to exist or not. Just follow the logic and you`ll get there.

@myrddingwynedd2751

Жыл бұрын

@@kayleeprince I said that because you said you wanted God to exist. Like I said, just make the deductions and you will see that God exists, regardless of how you feel. But here is the question, are the things in your life, things you do or perhaps enjoy that you know the Christian faith is against? Be honest?

Whenever I hear of a nonbeliever asking for evidence or asking for proof I think of the Lord at the crucifixion and those present telling Him to come down from the cross and they will believe. Most of them did not have a hopeful inquiring heart. Theirs was a mocking heart. Many people don't want to believe. They would be immediately dismissive of evidence without giving it serious consideration.

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

No it has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting to believe, that's not how it works. People are compelled to believe what they think is true regardless of what they want or don't want. If a person doesn't believe than they found the evidence to be insufficient

@kayleeprince

Жыл бұрын

asking for evidence is not mocking asking for evidence isn't wrong nor is it unreasonable

There are two different languages. There is the language of the atheist and there is the language of Yahweh. There is no communication between the two because the atheist does not want to communicate in the same way that Yahweh wants to communicate. For example, Yahweh says, “Let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet...” (Isaiah 1:18). The first thing on Yahweh's lists for discussion is your sin. However, for the atheist that topic is the last thing on the list. Also, it's not what you believe in, it's about what you love (Mark 12:33). The atheist's remedy to explain all his theories and to discredit the Genesis story is to add the construct of billions of years. But on the other hand, everything in Genesis is created in its adult form from the beginning. The trees, the animals, mankind are all created in their adult form. That also includes the universe. And an adult universe would and should appear to be billions of years old. Atheist do not understand that consciousness is not a chemical formula which could ever be created in a lab. When we talk about the elements we are talking about our experience of the elements through the miracle of consciousness. I would agree that the churches today are defective. In fact, the Apostle Paul pronounced a curse on most churches today because the main Christian denominations of today preach a different gospel than what Paul preached. To quote exactly what Paul said, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8). Both apostle Paul and Peter preached the same gospel and quote from the prophet Joel (2:32) saying, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of Yahweh shall be saved." (Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21). The English translations say “Lord” instead of “Yahweh.” But “Lord” does not translate “Yahweh” it is a substitution of a totally different word altogether. This substitution activates two additional curses because if you substitute a word you are both adding and subtracting at the same time. “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Revelation 22:18, 19) We are commanded by Messiah that, “...repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” (Luke 24:47). In other words, we are supposed to preach the gospel that came out of Jerusalem and not preach the gospel that came out of Antioch, or Rome, or England, or New York, or Chicago, etc. By the time the gospel got to Antioch it had already been perverted as we read, “...And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26). The problem with this is that YHWH spoke of a people called by His name (Deuteronomy 28:10; 2 Chronicles 7:14; Isaiah 43:6, 7; Daniel 9:19; Amos 9:12; Acts 15:17). YHWH did not choose the name “Christian” for Himself. The people of Antioch chose that name and all the so called main denominations of today embrace that name “Christian” for themselves. When Peter and Paul preached the gospel they quote the prophet Joel, “Whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be saved.” (Joel 2:32; Acts 2:21; Rom. 10:13). I ask you, how many of the church fathers and so called main denominations of today preach that gospel? None of them. Absolutely none! Paul makes it very clear that the end result of him preaching the gospel was that the people would call on the name YHWH. He says in (Rom. 10:14,15), The preachers are sent. They preach. The people hear. The people believe. The people call on the name YHWH (Rom. 10:13). I ask you, how many of the church fathers and so called main denominations of today preach that gospel? None of them. Absolutely none! It took only one generation after the death of Joshua for the children of Israel to forget the mighty works of YHWH which He had worked through Moses and Joshua and to began to serve the idols of the people around them (Judges 2:7-13). It took only one generation. .....

Atheism is not the lack of knowing God existing. Rather is is the hope He doesn't exist". ~Bishop Fulton Sheen

@Theo_Skeptomai

Жыл бұрын

And that is FALSE! Atheism is the position of suspending any acknowledgement as to the existence of a god until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones. Would you agree?

@alias908

Жыл бұрын

what is god ?

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

Well clearly this bishop was not right in the head Atheism means lack of belief in the existence of deities. No one knows that god exists, including you. At best people can claim to strongly believe in a god but strongly believing does not equate to knowing

@sydneybell-by8vh

Жыл бұрын

Also belief has nothing to do with what people want or hope. Belief is not a choice but a compulsion. In other words people are compelled to believe what they think is true regardless of what they want or don't want. If a person doesn't believe than they found the evidence to be insufficient

He's gonna cry again because the earth is flat and stationary.

@lebeccthecomputer6158

Жыл бұрын

Mhm

"They have Moses and the Prophets. If they do not believe them, they won't believe a man, even though he be raised from the dead!" - Jesus Christ

@lil-al

10 ай бұрын

Why did he bother resurrecting then?? Lol.

@toonyandfriends1915

9 ай бұрын

@@lil-al cuz some believed

“Would Atheists REALLY Believe if They got Proof” brought to you by two people who believe without proof. At some point apologists need to understand that just because some piece or pieces of evidence acts as sufficient proof for you, it might not be for others. And further, the reason you might take it as proof is because you want the thing you believe to be true. So, just as you can psychologize about why atheists might not “want” to believe in God or are fleeing from God to justify your own belief, it’s just as easy to make the case from the other side that theists want to believe in God and so find proof in nearly anything.

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

The underlying assertion is that you have an irrational bar to hurdle for what counts as "convincing"

@Spinozasghost

Жыл бұрын

@@Qwerty-jy9mj And the atheist thinks the bar the theist is willing to hurdle is irrationally low.

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

@@Spinozasghost Yeah but that's more about you knowing nothing about epistemology

@MelancholicHiraeth

Жыл бұрын

The lack of even the most basic understanding of Christianity or the 5 ways is staggering

@Spinozasghost

Жыл бұрын

@@MelancholicHiraeth @Qwerty you both prove my point. You both assume that others just have failed to glean as clearly as you have why they should believe what you believe. Imagine if I were to say that you just lack a basic understanding of atheism and the problems of evil and hiddenness. If only you understood those rightly you'd see the truth. That would be incredibly arrogant of me, and yet that's just the flip side of what you're saying. I wish I had the confidence to think my intellectual opponents were just failing to consider things correctly. At the risk of an appeal to authority, your statement implies that some of the greatest philosophers to consider those arguments or to work on epistemological issues (e.g., Hume, Kant, Schopenhauer, William Rowe, Graham Oppy, etc.) have failed to achieve your level of insight.I won't say that's impossible, but I find it very unlikely. As for myself, I work in philosophy and so on epistemology quite often. I also teach philosophy of religion, and it's for that very reason that I don't think the answers are as clear as apologists often like to paint them. However, even if I knew nothing about epistemology, as you claim, I would rather that be my predicament than to lack epistemic humility, like yourself.

I don't have to ask if Christians will believe without proof.

@j2muw667

Жыл бұрын

Except there is proof. All. Around. In the Bible. In the actions of those in the Bible. In places of history. And within creation itself.

@sandrajackson709

Жыл бұрын

@@j2muw667 The Bible is just a book of claims and speculation about creaton are just that. If pepole in the Bible saw what they claimed they saw then they only saw what it would take to convince them but I havent. No one can see a god for me

@j2muw667

Жыл бұрын

@@sandrajackson709 - except there are other non religious historical documents that support many things that happened in it. There is more evidence Jesus existed than people like Aristotle, yet people don’t doubt he lived. Should people doubt all historical books, just because they don’t want to follow what it says? It’s mostly ego that keeps people from researching. They don’t want to believe. It would require them to be less self centered.

@sandrajackson709

Жыл бұрын

@@j2muw667 Aristotlel lived hundreds of years before Christ so I do not know how that would even be possible. Falvious forgeries and both Tacitus and Josephus being born at least a decade maybe more after the supposed life and death of Jesus with Christians who would have killed and have to establish their religion as the dominant religion, altered text, missing parts. Not enough to convince me and it still does not answer my question. Why should I have believed what any book says and guess about what happened thousands of years ago if a God exists today? The existence of god should not be a historical debate. Historical books are not making any god claims or require me to believe them. No one is bothering me about believing in the existence of King Tut

@alias908

Жыл бұрын

@@j2muw667 "evidence Jesus existed" iirc there is indeed a historic consenus that there is a real historic kernel of the person jesus, but any further detail about him is only documented by chritians " Should people doubt all historical books " serious hisorians always have at least some doubt wheter traditions about persons are true "They don’t want to believe" yes and why should i

I suspect that asking whether someone believes the proposition "God exists" might be the wrong starting point. What matters is faith in Christ, and I don't think that comes down to a proposition either, because Abraham had it long before he had any chance of understanding the meaning of the proposition, "Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins." Faith in Christ, I suspect, is faith in the Logos - the conviction that the cosmic order acts for our good and that our existence within it is worth our participation in its cross. To believe the prepositions without faith of that sort is to believe a demonic doppelganger is God, which is worse than just being an atheist both for one's own soul and because of the worse consequences such a mistaken understanding of God would bring down upon the world as a whole. In other words, the stubbornness of atheists is actually a good thing, because there's no one more dangerous than someone who believes that God supports their campaign against the Logos.

This is very arrogant, there are many people in the world that would hope God existed, but truly can’t accept it based on the evidence we’ve been provided. I can understand this opinion, but to state it so aggressively is a mistake, in some sense it’s more an ad homonym attack

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

Meh, I think you're describing an arrogant attitude. Contingency arguments are like what? 800 to 1100 years old at this point

@coalregioncatholic3333

Жыл бұрын

​@@Qwerty-jy9mj Not at all. See the other comment I left in this thread. Faith, btw, is a gift, not something that can be logically reasoned to. That is the arrogant attitude of people that were born with the gift, who think they're better than people who weren't born with it. If one isn't born with the gift of faith, they have to ask for it - that is actual Catholic teaching. I received the gift because I was open to the truth and ready to believe IF God proved Himself to me. And, lo, He did. In a very big way, exactly the way I always said I would need. I would need to see to believe, and that's exactly what happened.

@coalregioncatholic3333

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. Check out the comment I left on this video about my miraculous, on-the-spot conversion to traditional Catholicism, from over 20 years of atheism. Like Saint Thomas the Apostle, I needed to believe to see, and I was intellectually honest and open to changing my mind if God proved Himself. See the other comment I left in this thread.

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

@@coalregioncatholic3333 I can rationally deduce that God exists and still refuse to live a Christian life, faith is a theological virtue but to say this virtue is being withheld from them would be akin to say that God made them for the purpose of going to hell and that is definitely not true

Jesus's parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man shows us that even raising the dead doesn't always result in having to believe. In the end it's a choice.

Your gospel isn’t the gospel of the Bible. Yours is the Gospel according to Rome. The Bible isn’t from Rome, it’s from God. Rome is God in your religion. Your Jesus needs other mediator and my Jesus is The way, The truth and The life! No one comes to the Father but by Him in my Jesus! Your Jesus allows other ways in, like praying the rosary! ““Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he brings all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. A stranger they will never follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭LSB‬‬

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

Enjoy your priestesses.

@BibleLovingLutheran

Жыл бұрын

@@Qwerty-jy9mj priestesses? You’re confused

@stevenwiederholt7000

Жыл бұрын

Never read any (Church) history have you?

@BibleLovingLutheran

Жыл бұрын

@@stevenwiederholt7000 oh but that’s where you are deceived yet again! God is outside of time and history yet you limit Him to it! The early Church is the one that went back to the early church and didn’t add other means by which to enter heaven! Yours was infiltrated long ago, ask Taylor Marshall, yet he still bows to the harlot himself! You’ve been warned! It’s no longer on me! It’s on you now! Repent and live or continue to bow to Rome and burn 🔥

@Qwerty-jy9mj

Жыл бұрын

@@BibleLovingLutheran Your sect doesn't have priestesses?

See Mister Deity for an appropriate response to this video.

I don’t understand what’s wrong with believing in what we want

Such "proof" does not and CANNOT exist!!