Please keep Mark as your sidekick!!! I could listen to him all day! 👍👍👍

I've watched both parts of this and found it very interesting. Mark is clearly an expert and so I'm pleased that you were able to secure him for an interview. I have to say that after having had a road-toad ('62 Valiant Signet 200) I don't hate this car. We're I an adult in 1962 I can see myself taking advantage of a showroom floor deep discount on one of these with the Slant-6, and then smiling all the way to the bank. Also, because a well-maintained Chrysler product from that era would last a very long time.

How come I'm digging every "Worst Car" video. Perhaps they do grow on you.

Funny, they marketed the Valiant as "Nobody's kid brother", then they turned around and gave it a big brother!

@aaronbryan5095

2 жыл бұрын

I guess the Plymouth Fury is that Nobody lol.

Marc is extremely knowledgeable & enlightening. This Fury is absolutely beautiful in person. I see a bit of the Corvair decklid in this rear. I do understand why it failed, yet I find it a very pleasant vehicle. Thank you, Adam, for bringing Marc on.

These are some of the most INTELLIGENT, well produced auto critiques on the internet. Features, concepts, executions, and comparisons are quite thought provoking. Very much appreciated. Thank you

LOVE it! Thanks for part II. Love the 2yr. only swoop of the cowl from the hood to the windshield. AND the matching slope Dutchman's panel !!! (The pnl. between the rear glass & deck lid.) Also, the V'd front & rear windows on the Plyms. & Dodges. As well the V shaped bumpers on the Dodge version are so damn cool!!! I had 2 '62 Dodges and still have a '62 Belvedere 4dr. sdn.. A GREAT package. They drive so nice!

Some great comments from Marc. Very quotable. “They were welded to the showroom floor” “You rob the bank and not the corner store”

Thank you for expanding the coverage of this pristine Plymouth and it's polarizing design. You and Mark have a wealth of knowledge and your collaboration provided us a fascinating deep dive into automotive styling. Great video!

Fascinating stuff! I was around eight years old when these models were built, and seeing these videos rekindles the same feelings I experienced then. Which, I suppose, is why I love older cars. So while your styling analysis is fascinating, I still see these cars through a kid’s eyes. I get such a good feeling looking at them. Thanks! Love your channel!

I'd love to see a video explaining the finer points of the original Valiant's styling.

@samiam5557

2 жыл бұрын

1st Gen. Valiants looks reminded me of a 'old maid librarian wearing cat's eye reading glasses on a chain around their necks styling.' =D

@chuckhaugan4970

Жыл бұрын

Virgil Exner was a genius. Don't care what anyone says.

@herbs4921

Жыл бұрын

​@Chuck Haugan in the 1950's, yes, not after his heart attack.

Wonderful discussion...really enjoyable!

My only critique is I'd like for these videos to be longer. Maybe 6- 8 hours in length if you could. But I'm a reasonable man and understand business negotiations. So, in the interest of getting this deal done. Ill settle for a short 3-4 hour video. Thank you in advance. Lol Seriously though. I sure do enjoy what you're doing. And Marc is just icing on an already great cake.

I really love these discussions!👊🏼

I love the front of the Valient, it is Ferrari inspired, but the toilet seat on the trunk and the rear quarter is like the punch line to a bad joke. Virgil Exner was echoing the baroque styling themes of the 1920's when the rest of the country was moving into mid century Bauhaus form-follows-function so he was seriously out-of-step with the cultural shift or gestalt.

@dave1956

2 жыл бұрын

My friends mom had a ‘60 Valiant. What a dog.

Very informative. And valuable information that's needed to better understand the design language. And america as a whole.

Helping that algorithm! Very nice to see more inside the car and how it was trimmed and styled, struck me as quite 50s looking, i.e. conservative on the inside compared to how avant garde it was on the outside. I'm not super surprised they fired the designer in the end, but I applaud his efforts. Very unique.

Thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing Marc's expertise and information.

That full size prototype is gorgeous! That is the car they should have brought out. I don't think anyone would have complained. Too bad about Ex.

As soon as I see one of these early 60's Mopar B bodies, I associate it with a hotrod. But even all these years later, I like the unique style. Even with a slant six, they're eye grabbing in a good way.

@EdMiF

2 жыл бұрын

You're not alone!

So much detail, featuring a fine example of the car. Love listening to Mark, great knowledge imparted with clarity, a little humour and to my ears a fine accent

Love all your videos especially when Mark is talking. What a wealth of information.

Great review, thank you both; I'm particularly fond of the Valiant wagon from this era. We had a '61 Windsor in our driveway, my favourite IP ever. Fabulous channel.

I appreciate you giving a second video with more commentary because that car has a lot of character and history behind it now can you find a 62 Dodge Dart or paledart or polara that's even harder challenge.

One of my best friends drove a light blue 62 Fury in high school in the early 1970s. Being a GM guy I thought it was bizarre then and still bizarre today (and also I was not a fan of push button automatic transmissions). It would have been great in this show to have had a 60, 61 and 62 Fury side by side to see how drastic the changes were during just those three years. Sometimes cars are so strange that they end up looking kind of cool years later.

Great guess, love listening to him

In 1968 I painted my buddies 62 Plymouth belvedere police interceptor with a teardrop hood scoop 1966 Bimini blue turned out real nice very cool. He drove her to high school in Remer Minnesota.

I can recall me being with my father looking at one of these used in the mid 1960's. As a ten year old boy, I can remember saying, "lets just keep the car we have" He agreed, and later he came home with a new 1964 Ford Galaxie. I have loved the 64 Fords ever since.

Mid fifties Mercury had two different rooflines, lower height on some with completely different glass. I still love the looks of this car, and I never have liked in any way the '61. This is such a great color combination shown, and be sure to thank the guy for sharing his car and knowledge with us!

@danielulz1640

2 жыл бұрын

55 Crown Vic and 56 Crown Vic and Victoria DID have a lower roof line than the sedans.

I like the styling on this " grammar school teacher's " car. I would have taken the thinner chrome strip that wraps the trunk and duplicated that at the front, in lieu of the thicker side piece trim.

Love these videos with Mark

The 1962 Plymouth Fury front design has always fascinated me. That fine-mesh grille is really outstanding, especially with the "divorced" dual headlight treatment. The extremely long hood really sets off the sideview, complemented by the heavy trim feature of the front side spear. It took a whole series of missteps to kill Plymouth, sad ending to a great nameplate.

If you grew up with the TV show "Leave it to Beaver" father Ward drove the four door version of this car. It was featured on the opening credits of the last season as they all piled in for a family picnic. As Ward backs out of their driveway "Beaver" looks out the rear glass which had obviously been removed .

Thanks again for a great video, loved seeing the inset of the originally planned full size Plymouth, I will say the down sized Plymouth did at least drive great and eventually made a nice midsize car

@joen7795

6 ай бұрын

Exner did not approve of the downsize. The full-sized was Exner's approved design.

A small town police department had some of those, but post models. They gave new meaning to the term ‘rattle trap’.

I think that Virgil Exner was doing acid in the early sixties as he designed Chrysler Corporation vehicles!!! 😬

@dave1956

2 жыл бұрын

I couldn’t agree more!

@DanEBoyd

2 жыл бұрын

LOL! Must've been the predecessor of the Brown Acid at Woodstock...

Motor Trend in 1983 had an Ugliest Car award. The Plymouth Valiant was a "surprisingly strong dark horse in our Ugliest cars awards.."

Great video, I'm really enjoying Marc's commentary on automotive styling history. My best friend drove a '62 Dodge Dart in high school. It was a four door, in the same black exterior & red interior color scheme as Marc's. The dash on Marc's Plymouth looks virtually identical to my friend's Dart, as I remember it. My friend's had a slant six and push button automatic. We called it the Bat Mobile, it had fins on the back AND the front. My friend treated the car with care and respect, as it had been his Grandfather's, and had very low mileage. I need to ask him where the Dart went next time I see him.

@luiscalcano4359

2 жыл бұрын

Did your friend escape the draft from Vietnam?

@njg875

2 жыл бұрын

@@luiscalcano4359 No, our high school years were in the early 80's, and in Canada.

@luiscalcano4359

2 жыл бұрын

@@njg875 God bless.

Love the bottom-up, too-down analogy!

I've never seen one of those in such pristine condition. Even when I was a little kind in the late 60s I remember them as used up and rusted out.

Another great commentary.

Great video I love 62 to 65 mopars. Crazy stories about how they came to be. Then the wheel bases were different depending on the year. Then Virgil Exner was fired and Elwood Engel took over. These cars were awesome at the drag strip they put mopar on the map for high performance. Cool stuff.

In the day, a pillarless (no window frame) car was called a "hardtop" while ones with door window frames were 'sedans'--2 or 4-door. Some think a sedan is a four-door while a coupe is a two door, but that's not how they were advertised in the 1960s. This car is thus a four-door hardtop, not a hardtop sedan.

Personally, i love this car. The styling is clean and interesting. Id love to see a show comparing the compacts of the day. At least here in CA, Falcons, Valiants and Novas are becoming very collectible.

Great insight on the styling cues. Still don't like early 60's mopars but I do try..

My great aunt had a 1962 Dodge Dart in Coral finish (or Pepto Bismol pink). Very cool car to ride in when I was a kid in the early 70's.

THIS CAR HAS IT S OWN ORIGINALTY..........IT S NOT A BAD DESIGN .I LOVE THIS STYLING .THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO ADAM.

I had a 62 Sport Fury. It was a great car. With a 383 it was a very powerful and fast car. Loved that car

Author Donald Hamilton once wrote in a Matt Helm novel that there was an era when Chrysler was conducting experiments in tortured sheet metal.

Great interview. I would have placed a front end, horizontal, thin chrome bar, in the front cove, connecting the inner headlights and twin horizontal chrome bars extending from each reverse lamp to the license plate cove at the rear. Inside, placing the futuristic Plymouth emblem, on a small or medium sliver mylar panel, would greatly improve the appearance of the door panels.

I like that year of Chrysler products, but the oldest one I had was a 64 Fury. That's a nice Plymouth you have.

1st Gen. Valiants looks reminded me of a 'old maid librarian wearing cat's eye reading glasses on a chain around their necks styling.' =D

7:35 Backup lights were optional on the Belvedere but common. How much of the 1963 senior Plymouth reflected originally intended design, and how much of it was made more normal at the last minute? There couldn't have been much time for "fixing." The 1964 senior Plymouth clearly had a more mainstream look.

I like the 62 savoy styling, I also think notchback barracudas shame darts. 68 charger is the best charger but the 71 coke bottle design grows on you. Any mopar in your garage is sweet

I have really been a car enthusiast my entire life and have always had such and appreciation and fondness for almost every make and model, but a lot of the Chrysler corporation designs from the late 50s and early 60s are unappealing to me, including this one. I admit though that after watching some vintage car commercials for the Valiant that I did gain a certain appreciation for its styling.

@MasterMalrubius

2 жыл бұрын

For some reason I find the styling attractive. Something about the proportions.

@Primus54

2 жыл бұрын

While certainly the exterior was more ornate, I’ve always looked at the first generation Valiant as a harbinger of GM’s X-cars of the 80s. Compact exteriors with large interiors.

These were great videos. I disagree with the premise that Chrysler Corporation never recovered from this disaster. I commented awhile ago that the Lynn Townsend era was the pinnacle at Chrysler, with sales, market share and profits rolling in. Not long after these cars in the company's turnaround, he was named Time Magazine Man of the Year! By 1965, with the exception of the Corvette, Plymouth division matched Chevrolet car for car, and the whole of Chrysler Corporation matched GM car and truck, line by line from compact car to heavy duty truck. The people he put in place, like Elwood Engle, accomplished this. The 1964-66 Imperial is a timeless design, has stood the test of time better than either the Cadillac or Lincoln of the time. It also was the highest selling Imperial of all time! Your video on the 1972 Fury slightly contradicts the ultimate fatality caused by the 62 plucked chickens. Chrysler had some rough patches, 57-60 corruption and quality issues, 1977 on incompetence. Ricardo and Cafiero wrecked that company, and Iacocca made it an extension of Ford, with rebadged junk. I think Bob Lutz all but alluded to that in your series with him. As I commented to you before, with few exceptions, the only Chrysler Corporation products that are sought after are from the Lynn Townsend era. In the what if catagory: had Lynn Townsend gone after John Delorean when he left or was removed from GM, installed him as President, the turned over the Chairman to him in 1975, we could be possibly be looking at an entirely different US domestic auto industry!

Still waiting on an explanation for the "Aztec" from the same scrutiny.

@turdferguson4124

2 жыл бұрын

Yes!!!

I've always have had a soft spot for these cars. I've seen a local blue fury with suicide doors white interior. It's nice. I saw a beautiful first gen red GTO today. Had a nice smooth idle

That is a beautiful ‘62 regardless of the reaction at the time it was released. A bit quirky, but this is a great example!

I’m glad the “plucked chicken” comment made it into this version. Presenting this car as the “the thing that got Virgil Exner fired” like in the previous version is removing some important context to how his tenure at Chrysler came to an end. His early 60’s designs were heavily meddled with after being given creative freedom in his first 5 years with the company and by the time these things were being built, he was a dead man walking and making bad designs on purpose just troll his supervisors (if said supervisors were to be believed)

Try as I might, I just can't find any love for the Chrysler designs of the 50s and early 60s, until the Exner designs faded away. I think this feeling must have been shared by most buyers, since these cars sold poorly,. being ,"welded to the showroom floor" as Mark describes them. The mid to late 60s designs were vastly improved, IMO. Who could complain about the styling of a 69 Charger?

..I absolutely love this car....Marc is the man......

I owned a 62 Chrysler Newport w/ 361 V8 loved it - had the opportunity in later years to drive a 62 Fury owned by my great aunt which also had a V8 but not sure which one . Then got to drive a 1964 Dodge Dart convertible with a slant 6 & power steering. All three cars were a delight - why - because they were all very tight when it came to cornering and general handling and as a lead foot driver the response between the engine and the torqueflite transmission was crisp and immediate . The GM turbohydramatic and whatever piss poor slush box excuse for a transmission that Ford had were not even close - the GM turbo 4 speed when romped would hesitate and was sloppy in the shifts.

@lukepokrajac1057

2 жыл бұрын

The 62’s were awesome handlers with stiff structure and light weight. Most of them didn’t even have/need front sway bars…even with the heavy poly engine. Probably some of the best handling b’s of the 60’s. Too bad the styling was so polarizing. My dad had a 62 dart 440 wagon and loved it. 318 poly was a fine engine and new for 62 727 was the best on the market

@antonfarquar8799

2 жыл бұрын

@@lukepokrajac1057 totally agree !!! In my possibly demented opinion if they brought this car back with its non bean pod body style it would be a huge seller - everybody I know are so sick of all the cars looking the same - wind tunnels are technically spiffy but produce the same boring uncomfortable vehicles.

Fantastic guest, of course. As difficult as it is to be charitable about the outside of this car, I do find the dashboard to be quite smartly styled. And the inside of this example looks positively pristine. I don't remember if it was said there was some restoration, or if this was pretty much the surviving interior condition. Flawless, in any event.

@DSGNflorian

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, this is Marc with the '62 Fury. Thanks for your comment. The paint and seat trim was redone by the seller I bought it from, with a fairly decent but not 100% original fabric reproduction. The door trim is original. The IP is missing a molded foam pad on the passenger side above the glovebox, very hard to come by today (even reproductions are rare and expensive) so it's often not replaced in a restoration. Ditto for NOS fabric or interior hardware, absolute silly money for those. The car is really nice as is so I am going to enjoy it for a while before I'll think about "correcting" these minor items.

summarized , Love to have one this nice !

I like it and would be proud and happy to have it instead of a Ford or Chevy of the same model year. This one in black and red is outstanding !

Loved the rear armrest comment! 😂

I've never been a fan of Chrysler, for no particular reason. It just came out that way. A Chevy family, and, like most people, I tend to follow tradition in the family preferences. But I just love Chrysler cars of this period. Because I love the odd and offbeat in things, and, my goodness, Chrysler had some of that in the early '60's. This body is certainly not some objective triumph, universally loved, but it's still fascinating and daring.

Is it just me or was there about 4 years of automobile production that the top three made cars that only looked the best with the color combo of Black and PORNO red interiors???

@grantsherman2292

2 жыл бұрын

1958- 1963!

@grantsherman2292

2 жыл бұрын

1959!-1963.

@errorsofmodernism9715

2 жыл бұрын

Red interiors were very trendy in the early '60's after the austere colors of the '50's

@danielulz1640

2 жыл бұрын

@@errorsofmodernism9715 what is austere about pink, yellow or turquoise interiors?

@danielulz1640

2 жыл бұрын

In my opinion, all cars, no matter the year, make or model, look good in black and all pickups look good in red.

I can't remember but do know from hard learned experience as a young auto tech, one side of the car has reverse threads on the rear wheel lug studs. I'm thinking it was the driver's side but not sure. I hammered on those with an impact wrench for a while before someone told me the deal. LOL

@davidkastin4240

2 жыл бұрын

Yup drivers side both wheels. I snapped off 2 spindles, drove it to a shop, and the mechanic snapped off a 3rd one.

What ever you do, don't let Clarence "Lumpy" Rutherford take the Camelback Cutoff shortcut when coming home from a track meet...apparently water can get in the distributor and you will need to push the car to a service station on the main highway and Ward will eventually find out. The 62 Plymouth Fury played a key role in that episode.

@325xitgrocgetter

2 жыл бұрын

I learned a parenting technique from this episode...one of Ward's coworkers saw the boys pushing the car as he was riding by in a bus. When Ward was lecturing Wally and Beaver about following rules and using the car, they asked him how he found out..and Ward refused to say, believing that if they are making a bad decision, there is a chance he would find out about it. My son was in a similar situation and I found out about it...and I used Ward's approach which I think was successful.

I didn't notice it in part 1 - the asymmetric front seatback, higher on the driver side... another cue from the concept car?

@61rampy65

2 жыл бұрын

Chrysler cars used that style seat for quite a number of years.

In NASCAR racing the Petty's won a lot of races in those B bodied cars. At the time all the teams back then were running full sized cars. With the Plymouths being lighter to begin with and then stuffing in the Hemi in 1964 Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 in essentially the same frame car and actually the same unibody used right up to the pull out of Chrysler in the early 1970's with the Charger

Well, no one can accuse Plymouth of copying their styling, it is unique indeed. Ward Cleaver was a faithful customer though. I'll never forget the intro to the show where they were all in the fury backing out of the driveway, everyone's neck snapped when Ward hit the brakes, probably to avoid hitting the camera. Looked like they had removed the rear window from the car to eliminate camera glare caused by the glass. In 64, looked like Plymouth cleaned up the lines on this model, didn't look quite as "unique".

Love it!

The back of this car has an almost Italian Ghia look to it.

Should have designed an advertising campaign emphasizing that "it's light and lively" I suspect it would keep up with a '62 Oldsmobile rather easily

I'm old enough to remember 2 family friends had these.

Scott from Maine: In '61 Valiant became a Plymouth because very popular '60 Dodge Dart ate into the less-loved Plymouth's sales. Adding Valiant boosted its annual figure. P.S. I loved '60 era Valiant even then at about 5-6.

Friend of the family decades ago had a 66 Valiant, built like a tank and has the slant 6 engine.

I like the steering wheel, nice color contrast. I can see why the car was welded it to the showroom floor though.

Thank you.

Some may say it’s a love or hate design. I like it. It has some very good basic shapes, and yet some odd details that don’t let the eye rest and find harmony. That rear door chrome kick up section is a good example. The design does not seem to be in harmony with itself.

These smaller Plymouths with the high performance 413 engines were terrors at the drag race tracks. When they came on the scene, they blew the doors off the Fords and Chevy's. These cars were sometimes called 'goats'.

I do like the 63 Plymouth Fury. The front of the 63 Plymouth reminds me of the 63 Buick Rivera which I always liked. Also always had a fondness for the 63 and 64 Dodge Polara and 63 Chrysler 300. If I remember correctly when the 64 Chevelle was introduced Chevy said it was the same size as a 55 Chevy which during the early 60s the tri five Chevies were still popular. There were a lot of buyers in the early 60s who wanted a car the size of the mid 50s full size cars which is one reason the Chevelle was such a successful car when it was launched for the 1964 MY.

Still no look under the hood?

6:54 Across the roof of the Fury we see the current design cue of American vehicles. Two pickup trucks.

I would submit that maybe the bottom up styling language worked with the tempo/topaz which bubbled up to the Taurus/Sable?

wish they would have kept the full-size design at 1:43 virgil exner was a masterfull designer

Just a side note and my 2¢ worth. The Cadillac Cimarron could have been successful if GM had modified the design like they did creating the Seville from the Nova in the 70's. A unique front piece, roof, tail cap, dashboard and interior trim using Cadillac level of material. Instead they did it in the cheep, so it looked like a high line Chevrolet Cavalier at Cadillac price. Also at start using the 4 cylinder engine too.

It's not that it has "valiant" styling, it has Plymouth Styling. All of the makes had their own style and this was the direction Plymouth was taking. The fact that there is a resemblance was a plus. Even the Valiant has styling cues from the Imperal, this is all intentional from Virgil Exner and his forward look concept. This is not the worse car by any stretch of the imagination.

As a child, I always thought of Chrysler Corporation cars as awkwardly styled. As an adult I find them interesting. That said the 1962 clay mock-up for Plymouth looked pretty good 👍

As a kid my parents had a 64 Plymouth Fury station wagon. The body looks to of had the same body underpinnings. Different body but similar shape.

The thing is it was goody in the day but you can't say the engineering was bad. At least they got air time in It'a a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.

We need to hear the iconic sound of a Mopar starter firing up the engine ;)

Very interesting discussion on marketing. It just seems self evident to go top down, not bottom up. Shows that these companies are run by fallible people.

The leaders at Dodge wisely used this body style for the Dart and took the body shell from the full size Chrysler for their 1962 full sized 880. As a result Dodge sales did not suffer as bad as Plymouth.

Little nudge at "finance guy" & "cost savings" on armrests- 4 doors with the larger front armrest would have been more per piece, but less overall cost since only 2 parts vs 4, less tooling, less parts inventory variation and effort.

In a two door version, these things are actually pretty cool looking. They’re very weird looking. But cool because they are so odd looking.

One of my dream cars