It is kind of hilarious how Matt could tell that she was offended in under a a fraction of a second. 🤣

@nick.s.c3102

2 жыл бұрын

@@ItsChrisFtw Um... She did not even say anything. Is it not ok for a wife to get offended by what her husbands says sometimes?

@sienkiewiczmonika1161

2 жыл бұрын

@@nick.s.c3102 Yes Wifes are humans.

@believewithyourheart5627

2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful actually!

@jennipherkafula9467

2 жыл бұрын

Shows how much he knows her🥰

@jonjonson7248

Жыл бұрын

Wear a burqa or else don't pretend you're modest or in a position to judge. We all know you have tits no matter how "modestly" you dress.

Matt, regarding struggles with getting kids ready for church in the morning. I did a thing with my kids where if everybody was ready by 4:00 p.m. on Saturday (including me)... Showered or bathed, clothes all pressed and laid out including shoes, Bibles laid out (We were Protestant),, their little purses (I had four girls, one boy), hair for the girls washed and in curlers. Then we could have pizza, popcorn, and prairie home companion in the evening. It made Sundays so much more relaxed and worshipful. (And notice the p, p, p? We were even prepared for the pastor's alliteration in the sermon lol). Great discussion by the way. I'm going to have to look for the longer version.

@carolinpurayidom4570

2 жыл бұрын

You'd have to curl your hair for mass😨

@alyce-kayruckelshaus1224

2 жыл бұрын

@@carolinpurayidom4570 😂 This was back in the '80s, with little girls. Update the idea as needed.

@sandstorm7768

Жыл бұрын

Positive reinforcements is THE way to go. My parents always rushed us to church and made it feel like a chore, like it was only about public appearance and not a spiritual experience. They fell into the Pharisee trap that Jesus kept admonishing.

I think it’s simple: women: don’t show shoulders or have a shawl over shoulders if you have a dress that shows shoulders, no cleavage, dress/skirt no more than 3-4 inches above the knee Men: pants and dress shirt, ideally a sports coat or suit I think for women a good tip would be: wear something that would be appropriate if you were meeting your mother in law for the first time at a family gathering

Modesty is primarily about the heart first do you have heart that is humble doesn't seek the wrong kind of attention and cares for other. Then you are being modest.

@believewithyourheart5627

2 жыл бұрын

Amen!

I like Paul’s advice where he discusses refraining from an activity if it would cause another to stumble. If your looks at Mass would distract another, you have caused them to stumble. Refrain from that. That covers both those who wear too little, as well as those who overdress. In both instances, the focus is drawn to the person and their appearance rather than to Christ.

@sandstorm7768

Жыл бұрын

Exactly 👍

This varies by culture. I'm in Texas. Nice jeans (new, not ripped up), polished cowboy boots, a nice leather belt, and a button up plaid shirt are considered appropriate dress up clothes for mass for men. I'm imagining the same is not true for Ohio.

Not addressing modesty in the general. That would take a whole lot more time to put it eloquently enough to not sound condescending to somebody. As for the Mass... I frame it this way with my teenager (and my students when they've asked my take)... The Mass can be seen in two ways regarding this. 1) It's a Wedding Feast. What would you wear to a wedding (because Jesus is the bridegroom after all)? Not as part of the wedding party where you'd be expected to be in something like a tux, but as a guest. At a minimum, it would be a polo & slacks for guys and a nice blouse & slacks/skirt for ladies...at a minimum. 2) You are going to a banquet as a guest of the King of the Universe. If you were invited to a banquet for a country's president or prime minister, you know you'd be dressing nice. Jesus is the King of the Universe for crying out loud. That is WAY bigger than that president or prime minister. How you present yourself to God is a direct reflection of how important you place Him. He may love us however we are, but so does any parent regardless of how much a disaster their kids are. It doesn't mean that being that disaster is appropriate or right, though.

@mariannatodd7010

2 жыл бұрын

Spot on, sir.

Here's my idea for a modesty rule- When you look in the mirror do you see your body or your clothes? If you see your body change outfits.

@Evie0h

2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes it’s difficult to dress in anything nicer than what I wear every day like jeans and hoodies, cause I tend to notice my body in a negative way in clothing like skirts and dresses, or nicer shirts I’d only wear to church. It makes me constantly think about my appearance and unable to concentrate. Sometimes I’d rather be dressed comfortably/casually in a modest way so I don’t have to worry, rather than try to dress nicely and think about it so much that I’m not paying attention to important things around me. Especially at my church, sometimes wearing plain jeans and a hoodie isn’t good enough for church. But as I don’t have anything else, and the few things I have that are nicer would cause me to be uncomfortable and distracted, I’d say for myself it’s better to be comfortable but still modest and neat instead of thinking about clothing and my appearance. If I am at least and modest and don’t look like I just woke up and don’t care, than what I wear shouldn’t matter, the way I dress is the best for me that I can currently do to pay attention and concentrate on mass and what’s important. My comment isn’t really about the modestly subject but more on dressing for church (Edit: OOPS wayyyy too long reply sorry! Shoulda checked how long I rambled before replying my apologies)

@carolinpurayidom4570

2 жыл бұрын

Not helpful when you're always focused on clothes or have body image issues

@cmac369

2 жыл бұрын

@@carolinpurayidom4570 I guess there's a small population of people what it wouldn't work for. I still think it's a good general rule of thumb.

@cmac369

2 жыл бұрын

@@Evie0h Maybe you should consider why you feel uncomfortable in nice clothes and then try to address the issue.

@carolinacequini8327

2 жыл бұрын

Not helpful if you live in a tropical country and it’s 40°C outside

It’s interesting how you can go into any courthouse in the United States and there’s a standard of dress that is expected and enforced and nobody seems to question that, but if the church does it, everybody loses their minds

I always love when you and Cameron chat.

Old people come up to me and my children, touching our faces all the time. It's a thing lol If someone hugs you, they could possibly touch your neck in the embrace. Thank you for this discussion, very helpful!

Interesting discussion. So many ways to look at this, so many different concerns and issues to balance. I wonder if the Wests (and especially North Americas) predilection for informality in almost all settings is an important background for these conversations. When we as a culture have lost the ability to dress up, many individuals end up never learning how or why to dress properly. Also, our culture is so fragmented and the various subcultures will interpret the meaning of different styles and clothes very differently. That makes it very hard to make a universal standard for how to dress for mass.

Love this

NET was what galvanized my faith in high school.

Much like the military or any other collective organization, one purpose of a dress code is to standardize and avoid distraction. If a person is dressing in such a way to draw attention to themselves, then their priorities are misaligned. You should be dressing in a manner that is at least aesthetically neutral (ideally mildly pleasing) and that does not invite distraction. People are at Mass to worship God, not be distracted by some kind of fashion statement or lack thereof. I think men should start wearing what women wear in society. Then everyone will develop a keen understanding of "decency". Yoga pants, crop tops, short shorts, noisy high heels, etc.

@AnnaBanana-tx9rf

2 жыл бұрын

Literally no one is wearing yoga pants and crop tops to mass lol

@bobbyboucher187

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnnaBanana-tx9rf not talking about mass. just society in general

How does the Eucharist nourish your matrimonial relationship Matt and Cameron? If you already talked about it, can you refer me to the link? Thank you in advance!

The touch standard works perfectly fine. The fact that you can be touched anywhere in a way that is creepy doesn't discount it.

Matt's right: you nailed it Cameron!

Matt plays d&d? Yes!

I love my iron!

While addressing an immodest woman as a prostitute may not be the best approach, why is the immediate counter from Mrs. Fradd to gush over the beauty of the woman and how she needs to veil this immense beauty? Why must every action be about feeding our egos or “self-esteem”? It’s very concerning to think you can’t correct someone without first affirming how great they are in some respect

@emagenie

2 жыл бұрын

I think it’s because its what a woman would respond to .

@carolinpurayidom4570

2 жыл бұрын

And why does beauty need to be veiled whats the point then?

@mariab.1180

2 жыл бұрын

It’s about affirming the dignity and beauty of women and THATs why modesty is important. Not shaming them, it is not a loving or effective approach at all. Not to mention it was a stranger, and that makes the correction more delicate

@toddbyrd9071

2 жыл бұрын

@@emagenie I understand that, but my point is that it’s rather sad that you can’t even make a loving and sincere correction (again, I’m not saying call them a prostitute) without having to gush over them or appeal to their self esteem. I was making a comment that *that* is the real problem. People can’t get over themselves long enough to be corrected without having their ego massaged.

@emagenie

2 жыл бұрын

@@carolinpurayidom4570 Great question! Although I am not sure that a woman's beauty can indeed be veiled completely with rules about dressing such as are prescribed in our churches . But if your question is specifically about veiling i.e wearing a mantilla / veil to mass - because this is a question I had when I started attending EF masses . I was told that a woman's beauty lies in her hair and that was to be treated as a mystery and kept veiled just as the Eucharist is veiled at all times .

Hejo, I am a Lutheran in Germany, I do not know if this is the same in the States, but here in Germany Men also (I am a man) dress in casuals when going to the Mass, sometimes even shorts. What I ask people, who dress properly, is: would you dress like that in the presence of her Majesty the Queen (I am South African by nationality)? No, ok, so why then in the presence of the King of Kings, or do you think he is not really bodily present on the throne of the cross? Most people, I realized a while back, believe in the real absence of Christ and not His presence. . .

I actually heard some of my aunts refer to her daughter like that.

I really like the way Cameron speaks on this. You can see it comes from a truthful and loving place . To be honest, there have been times when I didn't realize the way I was dressed was not appropriate enough, even if I wasn't risque. I think it's because I'm not a man, so I don't see the female body sexy. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can tell when someone is dressed too provocative. I'd like to know Cameron's thoughts on spaghetti straps or tank tops? Or if it's ok on a daily basis. Of coarse not church . I think it is important to wear something that will not distract others from the Lord.❤ I do wear a sorang with a swimsuit or swim shorts. Also, if it was a 2 piece, which I don't really wear, I'd also like to know Cameron's thoughts on 2 piece tankinis. Wear it's covering most of your midriff. I think even one piece suits though can be cut and tailored inappropriately .

My wife might say what Matt said, lol! 😂

Matt, here's a way to possibly improve your general theory: eliminate intentionally creepy touches and narrow down the awkwardness to sexual awkwardness. If someone came up and high fived your face, it would be awkward, but not an immodest kind of awkward.

Matt, you weren't even trying. :D

5:35 are these ywo literally arguing😁😁😁🥰🥰

Problem is men are more likely to intrinsically understand the problems of immodesty whereas most women are naturally programmed by the feminist culture that encourages immodesty.

@dannny_macdee1015

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, right. Especially if he's a DAD.

@seekeroftheway

2 жыл бұрын

Really sums it all up, cheers friend

❤️

Modesty isn’t only the dress but modesty of your own words and actions. Imagine if your words had clothes. Do you say your words nakedly?

Also don't look at your phone, that's tacky too

I enjoy ironed clothes!

I was always more concerned about vanity so I chose to dress down for church. I am now trying to balance out the other direction and dress to show my respect.

I have a church clothing section in my closet.

Some point they gotta get cover up, but "we can't expect God to do all the work".

Matt!! Your wife is amazing!! Interview her soon. I love her❤️ my children are always well dress at church. My girls wear puffy dresses with bows. I always tell them we’re going to Our Heavenly Father’s castle so we must look beautiful.

I think we should dress appropriately and comfortably for any occasion, and it will always be those who like it or not

Got so offended when sspx insisted that I stop wearing full length trousers and only wear skirts/ dresses . I switched nevertheless . It’s the only church near me giving me EF and sincere pastoral services .

@Jkp1321

2 жыл бұрын

Pants are fundamentally utility based clothing that were made for men

@Jess_ica2927

2 жыл бұрын

I think some people take it way too far. It's possible to look modest in trousers

@Jkp1321

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jess_ica2927 cope

@bobbyboucher187

2 жыл бұрын

@@Jkp1321 I feel like dresses are more "utility-based" for men. Cuz of, you know, stuff. So I would say trousers are more fashion-based. And that's fine because they look sharp. But if we want to get all anatomical, guys should probably be wearing kilts and such.

@Jkp1321

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobbyboucher187 trousers became the dominate male clothing originally yes to accentuate the male figure with big strong legs, especially for the upper class, but among the lower class being able to sew in pockets eventually became the logical use of trousers by the turn of the 19th century

For cleavage I never really understood the "just a little bit is ok philosophy". Like it's honestly all or nothing with that. Thats moral relativity at that point where you think a little bit is fine As a catholic man it would look very immodest to have your butt crack out. But cleavage is fine lol? Something wrong in society there And yes I'm a guy and yes we are allpwed to comment on what women wear. You cant tell her what to wear but we are allowed to define the moral underpinning.

Honestly, the deeper we enter spirituality , appropriate dress by a female should be obvious...tiptoeing so as to not hurt her feelings is secondary and shouldn't be demanded...

I've never heard anyone talk about modesty for men.

@popemon7608

2 жыл бұрын

Part of the problem is that the concept of modesty actually is much broader than anything to do with sex/lust. Historically, it was discussed in relation to vainglory (i.e. immodest dress is that which draws too much attention to or promotes yourself too much in some regard). For anyone who doesn't believe me, you can read Aquinas's Summa article about it. Modern Catholic discussion frankly need to bring that back, because this is a problem that men have much more readily with dress than causing lust, but it is rarely properly addressed. Wearing too fancy or ostentatious clothing is not unknown amongst men, and can actually be much more immodest than a dress cut too low, but it is not commonly rebuked. If it were, I think the appearance of sexism on this issue would be greatly diminished.

@bellataranto-mifsud9256

2 жыл бұрын

@@consolewench6639 totally agree!! This is how it's refered to in the New Testament yet we forget to apply it now. Flex culture is real and it's a massive issue.

@apracity7672

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, what is the point that you're trying to make with this comment?😀

@dannny_macdee1015

2 жыл бұрын

@@popemon7608 I agree, basically. A flashy suit or ANYTHING sparkly or wildly colored says worse about a man than showing legs or biceps. But don't get ME started either, on tight ANYthing for a guy!

@seekeroftheway

2 жыл бұрын

@@peace-and-quiet Men actually wore skinny clothes before women…

You should dress as well as you can at mass because you are in the immediate presence of the King of the Universe. Try going to see Queen Elizabeth or the President in the Oval Office in the worst clothes you own.

I appreciate this conversation. It’s always been difficult for me to reconcile choices in modesty with men shaming women for modesty. No offense Matt, (and glad Cameron followed it up kindly), but your snarky comment of “don’t dress like a prostitute” or “hussy” is so demeaning and seems more meant to shame women instead of inviting them to reflect on their worth, and you’re right to mention that kindness goes way further than demeaning comments from men. IMO, fraternal correction on women’s modesty should come from women, or very very close male friends. Otherwise, it comes across as very objectifying, and sometimes modesty can be sexualized and fetishized by men.

@alyce-kayruckelshaus1224

2 жыл бұрын

I would add that women, especially young women, often don't realize how the way they dress affects men. Even though we tell them, they haven't experienced that yet and so they don't really understand it. At least I didn't.

@csongorarpad4670

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with your points. Though, I feel the need to explain why we, men, often use phrasings, in regards to this topic, that happen to easily be misunderstood as inappropriate, offfensive etc by most women. When a man says that a woman may be dressing like a prostitute it is not only because the need to dress modestly is especially important in Church, but also because we are more than well-aware of how certain clothing will affect our psyches and will encourage lustful thoughts and the like, that I don't think most women are aware of or will understand if men don't explicitly state how they will perceive certain clothing. I think, in general, that this is an issue caused primarily, but not solely, by how men and women typically think different about clothing and how the messages we signal are most often misunderstood between the two sexes and it seems to go both ways (the difficulty to not being able to directly relate to how the other party may perceive something).

@letitbe680

2 жыл бұрын

I completely agree with you that Cameron’s response is superior. First of all, giving her the scarf meant she got to experience the life-changing beauty of sacred art instead of going to a secular attraction and harboring resentment against the Church. Thinking back to my teenage self, Cameron’s response would not only have gotten me to comply with the modesty requirements of the moment, but it would have also got me thinking about my future clothing choices. Matt’s response would have pushed me away from the Church and I would have continued immodest dress out of spite.

@samuelfreisinger5580

2 жыл бұрын

@@csongorarpad4670 Very true. I second this.

@mariab.1180

2 жыл бұрын

@@csongorarpad4670 I agree with your points, but I still draw the line at comparing women to “prostitutes”. It’s degrading and should not be used by brothers in Christ. Comparing women to prostitutes is a throwaway line that does not provide clarity to the woman in why modesty is important. And I emphasize that even if a woman chooses to dress immodestly, she is still worthy of respect and dignity, and should not be subjected to degrading comments

Why do men have no problem with dressing modestly? Because no one wants to look at an immodestly dressed man And I for one do not want to look at immodestly dressed women

@arkansas99

2 жыл бұрын

Modesty is not covering your body alone, alot of men and women live immodest by promoting luxury.

First

Barefoot? Gross.

When are you Christians gonna learn that Muslims practice modesty the way God (even the Christian God) wants?

@zsedcftglkjh

Жыл бұрын

Dressing like Cousin It isn't "modesty," it's dehumanizing.

Modesty is important for the woman even more than for any man around her because it's more about how she views and treats herself. That being said, why do we never acknowledge that even Muslim women with head and face coverings or super fundamentalist Mormon women with long dresses are still sexualised by men. You get to a point in your life as a woman when you realise it's not always just about how you dress. Yes, you can dress in a way that makes men want you sexually and that's not something that God wants us to do, but men can be lustful just because they think you're pretty or have a good personality that is attractive. In either case men still have responsibility to stop those thoughts. Everytime I see discourse online about this issue there is always shame placed on the woman even though the man is responsible too. We also look at this in one direction because men can dress in a way that arouses women but we don't shame men for that as much, or talk about how women need to respond in those situations by shutting those thoughts down too.

@mariannatodd7010

2 жыл бұрын

"We also look at this in one direction because men can dress in a way that arouses women but we don't shame men for that as much, or talk about how women need to respond in those situations by shutting those thoughts down too."----Excellent points.

No Matt, you just are too aggressive sometimes. In the VAST majority of cases, it's WOMEN who love dogging other women for how they look and dress. Can't believe you don't notice this.

To be honest, I find strange that Matt always gives up to Cameron, whatever she starts to say, and even when he has a point, he is like "okay, okay, you won, you are right". It looks almost like Cameron is a head of a household and it is not very beautiful. But I do not judge right away, that's just a first impression.

@zsedcftglkjh

Жыл бұрын

She wears the pants.

@NotANameist

10 ай бұрын

Several of these “gives up” points were about how she would feel in a circumstance, which is not really something that’s up for discussion, just as how he would feel wouldn’t be up for discussion either. Respectfully, the conception of a husband’s headship as a tool to “win” any discussion is pretty sick and demented.

Unsubscribed. What is not often talked about how a womens world comes crushing down around 30

@andrearebelo4275

2 жыл бұрын

What do you mean?

@bearlycountry2406

2 жыл бұрын

I’m 37 and not only do I agree with the message of this video, but my world has not come crushing down. I couldn’t disagree with you more. Not only do we humble ourselves before the Lord by veiling ourselves, we also preserve our dignity by dressing modestly. The only man who will see me in my entirety is my other half, my Husband of 16 years. I hope you find the beauty and joy of dressing yourself well. Women are like fine wine, we get better with age. Don’t allow yourself to believe the Cardi B’s of the world, we aren’t best when we’re young and our value isn’t held because of our WAP. We’re so much more than that, and thank the Lord that we are. God Bless.

@AnnaBanana-tx9rf

2 жыл бұрын

The idea that our world comes “crashing down” the moment men no longer find us attractive is silly. At 30, you still have more than half your life to live. You really wanna tell women that at thirty they should just throw in the towel bc they have nothing left to live for anymore? I’m made in the image and likeness of God. My worth does not come from whether men find me sexually titillating or not. Believe it or not, older women still live happy, meaningful lives. The fact that you think my value depends on physical attractiveness alone IS objectification lmao. Also, just a side note, but women still look good at thirty?? Lol I don’t understand this narrative that by 30 women are all worn out hags 😂. Like 30 is younggggg my guy.

@karole7345

2 жыл бұрын

@@bearlycountry2406 if women age like fine wine why do their lives get harder

@karole7345

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnnaBanana-tx9rf chill baby girl. I didnt speak of your value but its true you have the most advantages given to you from the world at your physical peak (men dont have such a thing) and then when your looks fade you might be kind of disappointed. that's why I'm saying the world comes crushing down