We were surprised to find how muddy and distorted the BOSS WL20 and WL50 were compared to the Line 6 Relay G10. What do you guys think? Has anyone else used either of the BOSS units? If you listen to the dry WL50 track around 11.17 (especially the single line run). There's a crunchiness to the tone which should be apparent on good computer speakers. Then at 11.46, the last note before you hear Rowan say "...distortion?". Also listen to the dry track at 13.28 and compare the single line runs there.

@stratofever1

5 жыл бұрын

What about the WL20L? Maybe it's the "cable simulation" of the WL20 that is making the whole thing muddy, perhaps a line level WL20L will resolve this

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Nope. The WL50 has a switch to turn the cable emulation off and it still sounds distorted, as we show in the video. The range on the WL20 is also quite a lot worse, so I doubt the WL20L would be any better.

@aaronshortmusic

5 жыл бұрын

I reviewed the WL-50 on my channel. I didn’t find it to be muddy compared to a cable with the emulation off. I actually find the G10 to be muddy. Maybe it depends on the guitar etc? It would be good to do a test with a cable and these units and record them to analyze the .wav file...

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

@@aaronshortmusic the distortion was the main concern. I also later tried it with a few other guitars (Telecaster, Strat, acoustic) and heard the same results. We already know our cables give us a good clean tone. We can hear the distortion in the Boss units clearly without much trouble. I'm not sure what more analysing the waveform will do. We were running this direct through a PA with nothing other than a little reverb, to get the most accurate representation of the sound. Perhaps if you ran it through a guitar amp (with a little overdrive) it might have masked the issue?

@aaronshortmusic

5 жыл бұрын

GAS TV I recorded into my computer. I’m going to try again tomorrow...

Nicely done!

Great channel mommies, thanks for such a nice and relaxed review (much unlike most US based channels).

I wish you would have sound tested a cable to... to see if that changed the tone...then we would know which unit matches the cable sound more accurately... just say’n

Great video! Thank you

Thanks for this. Really liked the review, the presentation, and Rowan's playing. The Line 6 USB cable seems to be an issue with everybody, and I read that one person had solved this to his/her satisfaction by using magnetic USB connectors. Does not appeal to me. I also really appreciated your production values, and wondered if you could say what your lighting set up is - saw some reflections and the main part of a light stand, so can infer, but would rather know for sure.

Great review comparing the two! I was tempted nearly by the new compact BOSS units; then found the G10 in my local shop; came home to find reviews; I am definitely going with the G10; Sound quality is king! Im sure with some creative thought and gaffer tape a solution could be composed for the micro USB cable problem being too flimsy and vulnerable. Price is better too and the BOSS are not in Malaysia until 2019!!

@dushk0

3 жыл бұрын

A different usb cable? From a reputable phone brand maybe.... Also it's a C connector, not "micro B".

Enjoyed how you actually Tested these and there is a quality diff between the Boss and G10, the G10 clearly Has better sound...

2.6ms delay is like having the amp less than 1 meter (3 feet) further away.

Just got the new Relay G10S. It's fantastic! Love to see you review this and compare with the G10.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

John Glanton will definitely do that! We are in Australia and it always takes longer for us to get stuff here 🤬

@johnglanton2622

5 жыл бұрын

@@GASTV just released at winter namm. Given your review, of the gs10, I believe you will dig this! Really enjoy the channel!

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

@@johnglanton2622 Woohoooo! Looks like Australia is actually getting them pretty much straight away with the rest of the world. Our local music shop is sick of Felix texting them on an ETA, looks like we'll get them mid next week. Don't know if it's enough to convince Rowan to use one though, he's too damn practical!

@johnglanton2622

5 жыл бұрын

@@GASTV Oh come on... 130 foot range, 2 different power inputs, micro usb (very tight) plus barrel type power supply. Included a right angle jack adapter for transmitter. Also has auto vs. dial to choose from 11 channels.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

@@johnglanton2622 I know, right? And who doesn't like to swagger around from one end of the stage to the other when they play... What's this nonsense about focusing on the music? I suppose when you play as well as he does you can get away with crazy ideas 🤔

Real pleasure guys. Perhaps consider “locking” the micro usb to your board to eliminate damage to it and power it with a good sized external power bank. There are these groovy 5v to 9v converters about now that work wonders in eliminating noise on your boards. I’d be super interested in further testing esp with the U2 wireless vs Boss vs G10 via acoustic and acoustic piezo guitars. When locked down I’m a pure Variax guy these days but I live for the 2-3 months a year when in Thailand or elsewhere in Asia / Australia where guitar culture is so much more prevalent. Picked up guitar at 43 after hearing your dude John Butler with Ocean... keep up the great work with this channel.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Alec Bourne Thanks for the feedback and suggestions! I actually own a Xvive U2 as well and automatically discounted it as I have had too many channel interference issues at home with it and can’t trust it to work reliably on a gig, regardless of sound quality. It doesn’t auto-switch channels and has 4 preset ones. I bought it sight unseen on a recommendation from a highly respected Aussie guitarist who used it at large stadiums, he must have gotten lucky with channel interference. My initial impression is that it sounds better than the Boss, they appear clean and not distorted or crunchy... to be honest at this point I’m a little aghast that the Boss units sound so bad.

@AlecBourneMidiMadScientist

5 жыл бұрын

Grabbed the G10 today thanks to this video. Cheers again guys.

Whether the transmitter can be charged when it is plugged into the receiver, but the receiver is not connected to the mains. For example, while I play a concert, the receiver is charging, then I played back put my boss in my bag and he charges the transmitter for the next concert. Sorry for my terrible english.

Very nice review and very informative. (I think you are the first to compare these units). Just a few interesting things to add: I own the Line 6 G10 and it sounds great and works flawlessly. I gig with it all the time. Being able to plug it in between sets to keep it fully charged is a great feature as well. Yes, the USB adapter is the weak link but I still prefer this unit. I bought the Boss WL-20 and had problems with it which caused me to return it. The activator switch at the base of the plug, would not turn on when plugged directly into my pedal board tuners (both TC Poly Tuners). The transmitter was also much more likely to wiggle out and turn off with some of my recessed input guitars. I've never had that problem with the Line 6. Finally, I experienced some interference drop outs with the Boss and I have never had that issue with Line 6. I sure hope with NAMM 2019 coming up, Line 6 will update the receiver base to the G10. It is otherwise a great unit.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Wow! Thanks so much for that info. Always great to get a player’s first hand experience in the field with these units. I have been using the G10 in live shows as well with absolutely no issues, although I am about to duct tape the usb cable to the unit for my own peace of mind! Did you notice the difference in sound quality with the WL-20 (ie. are we going crazy?)? Was it immediately apparent or did your rig and effects possibly mask the sound issue?

@AbeldeBetancourt

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your input, mommy. I'm getting a G10 thanks to you. The mini USB is perfect for me; more options.

@drutgat2

5 жыл бұрын

Robert Eichler - Yes, I have heard that some people have had problems with the Boss activator switch, but got around those problems in all contexts (except with Ibanez guitars, I think) by putting a washer on the shaft of the jack plug, in order to make it tighter and more likely to be depressed when plugged into a jack socket. Must admit, I have not previously heard of the Boss units being prone to drop outs or interference (but have heard that a l lot about the U2 Xvives).

Does the receiver (box) need to be connected to the power supply ALWAYS ?? What if the stage does NOT have power supply ?

Ahh ha, you mentioned UI24. I have one also. Great piece of gear. For playing at home and practice I suppose these are ok, but I think I'll just stick with a cable.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

The Ui24r is an awesome bit of gear... indispensable! The G10's micro usb port has finally failed and Felix has finally admitted defeat with wireless units... at least for now.

I’ve come within a NY second of ordering both of these, this video has stalled the lot. Will have a proper listen on decent phones but man. Was almost convinced with the WL50.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

If you listen to the dry WL50 track around 11.17, I can hear it clearly through good computer speakers, especially the single line run. There's a crunchiness to the tone. Then at 11.46, the last note before you hear Rowan say "...distortion?". Also listen to the dry track at 13.28 and compare the single line runs there. The G10 in comparison has a clean, sweet round sound.

@AlecBourneMidiMadScientist

5 жыл бұрын

GAS TV I’d have to agree. Sunny greetings from Italy. Cranked these through a pair of your Nuraphones and can very clearly hear at each stage the differences between WL50 cable emulation being off, short and long, There is a marked drop in the high end freqs with the longer cable emulation. The G10 blows them away at least in my opinion. Very difficult to decide as the boss WL50 has the options I’d want for everything else. Any noted difference with regards to using this with an acoustic ..? From the blurb I’ve read you should note quite a difference on an acoustic with the freq roll off from the cable emulation. This was another consideration for the G10 though I can’t really use the XLR inputs with a Helix LT. Thanks for the vid though and really good putting a face to the name Felix. Seen your posts online for ages so glad to have discovered channel. Instant like and subscribe.

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Felix here, nice to meet you! And thanks for subscribing. Whew! I'm glad someone else is hearing this besides us and I'm glad to have someone else to talk to about this. I still can't quite believe that it is as distorted as it sounds! We borrowed the units from Music Junction and don't have access to them to do more tests so can't give you a definitive opinion on an acoustic through it (although I'm thinking we might do a more comprehensive test if there is interest). Prior to filming this I had the smaller WL20 to play with for a weekend, with the intention of keeping it. I ran a Telecaster through it and the Relay G10. I could instantly hear the muddiness even through the single coil. I returned it to the shop and hence my comment in this video about not taking it seriously. It wasn't until I started editing the video and could listen to the dry tracks that the "crunchiness" became evident on both the WL50 and WL20. It's not just the "crunch" it's also the tone quality. Given all this, I'm not confident that an acoustic piezo would fare much better. I'm exactly like you, use a Helix, LOVE the form factor of the BOSS WL50, HATE the weak power input connector of the Line 6 G10... I REALLY wanted to like the BOSS! But I can't plug that into my US$1500 Helix!

I've been using a G10 for 2 years... the USB finally broke! I was looking to replace it with the WL20, bought the XVIVE U2 instead! Same sound, but cheaper, better range, more practical and less latency then the G10!! Add that to your review!

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Strato Fever Ouch! That micro-usb port is just not acceptable! It’s interesting you are having a good experience with the Xvive U2. I own a Xvive U2 and know of experiences with 2 other units with students and friends and absolutely CANNOT recommend it. In all instances we are experiencing constant drop outs on all channels in different locations and fiddling to find a clear channel is a pain and an exercise in faith as you can never be sure. While the tone appears to be better than the Boss units, the drop out issues are so bad I haven’t been bothered testing or comparing it further. I do still use it as my “bedroom” wireless from time to time but it has been temperamental enough that I wouldn’t miss it if I binned it.

@stratofever1

5 жыл бұрын

Did you notice if there were a lot of WIFI interference? The less WIFIs are around, less problems you will have... because on my case, although there is 5-7 WIFI signals around, it's been working fine even at 30m distance!

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

I can't quantify the amount of wifi noise around the locations I use the wireless units. All I can do is compare the G10 and Xvive in the same locations and see which one is more reliable. I haven't had a single drop out with the G10 yet at every venue I have played, the Xvive just drops out intermittently no matter what I do. I did take it with me to Philiip Island while on holiday and it worked well there... probably quite clean wifi wise.

I just sent back the newer Sennheiser wireless and decided to try the WL-50. The Sennheiser transmitter needs work. I was surprised at the very slight loss of treble and the very slight distortion the Boss WL-50 causes. I’m happy to see I wasn’t imagining it. These would be ok for intermediate users but not for seasoned or professional players. It’s going back. The reviews on the G10Sii are not very good either. I’m going to try the shure GLXD-16.

@GASTV

3 жыл бұрын

It’s been a while but for what it’s worth, we ended up with 2 G10s (version 1) and it addressed all our previous issues with the G10 and sounded great to us. All the best on your search.

@billk5864

3 жыл бұрын

@@GASTV Thanks for the information and the reply.

Hey can you guys do another scientific test with the new LINE 6 Relay G10S?

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Definitely! Felix is super excited about the G10s, when he saw leaked pictures of it he squealed like a little girl. We are trying to find out how to get our hands on one, but being in Australia it may take a little while. Hang tight.

For this unit, can I use the power cables that came with my voodoo labs power supply to power it up? Been really curious and a little cautious about that? Been really wanting wireless for a while now

@GASTV

4 жыл бұрын

The G10 only has a mini USB input, so no... you can;t use your Voodoo power supply (unless you have the appropriate adaptors and cables). The new G10s does have a (volt power input though and is a much better unit than the G10. It resolves the issue of the loose USB power input.

I think the WL-50 has a usb port for charging on the transmitter (although it doesn't come with a cable)

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right! Thanks for pointing that out!

Did you volume match?

I own Boss WL 50 and find it great! The cable tone off, short and Long makes a difference. I keep mine OFF.

2:15 Problem with the Line 6 Relay G10 9:00 Sound comparison 17:30 Highly scientific and controlled range test 22:40 WL50 vs G10 summary (Arrrgh... we can't decide on a clear winner!...) 23:20 Boss WL20 (...but it's not this)

Hey guys, I just tried to put WL-20 at the start of my pedalboard, and I think it fried the electronics on may TC HOV and Digitech Hardwire pedal. They no longer work on 9 Volt battery, only work with off off wall charger. Any advice?

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Wow, Sorry to hear you are having problems. Can't really help as these things can be quite situational. I'd be surprised if it was anything to do with the WL20 though, connecting it in your chain is uhh unlikely to cause any damage to your other gear as there simply isn't enough power for it to do anything other than power itself... I would have thought. More likely the damage occurred because of something else more along the lines of a power surge or use of incorrect polarity in your power plug?

@omarbarba4729

5 жыл бұрын

@@GASTV Thanks for the the advice. Will try again. The TC came back to life this morning.

I wonder who TF in line 6 thought of putting a micro usb instead of the regular 9 volt.

@chrisrodsa210

4 жыл бұрын

USB C would have been nice

I kinda noticed the same problem with my WL-20, what with the muddiness and distortion. That was when I first got them though and the battery was barely charged. This video was a little disheartening as it confirmed what I was hearing. But I was pleased to find out after fully charging them and re-pairing them properly, it went away. It honestly sounds no different than my cable at this point. Were yours fully charged in this video? I realize this is a couple years old now, but I feel that might still be relevant for people like me that just came across these units, and your video.

@GASTV

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, our unit was fully charged. We had left the unit plugged in overnight before shooting the video and we have had other people confirm the same issue with sound quality. In any case, having the sound change as it runs low on battery is not acceptable either. From my experience, the Line 6 Relay G10 appears to remain consistent throughout it’s usage.

@Mordecai616

3 жыл бұрын

@@GASTV I'm not sure how or why I experienced the issue at first and then have it all of a sudden go away either. But even if it is a case of the sound degrading slightly when the battery nears the end of the charge, I'd say with the Boss unit having such a long battery life, I'd rather take the slight change in sound than have it die sooner and not work at all. Either way, the issue seems to be gone and hasn't come back after 3 hours of use, so I'd say I'm satisfied with it for now, but we'll see how it holds up after a few months.

@GASTV

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mordecai616 what it probably is is that the Boss is probably still muddier in sound compared to the Line 6 but you heard it very clearly with a low battery. The poor sound quality on the low battery is probably a different issue altogether to be honest, but when you charged it up, that issue went away and you simply now have the basic Boss sound which is still muddier than the Line 6. We might not have noticed the difference unless we had the 2 side by side swapping them, playing jazz. In any case I upgraded to the newer LIne 6 G10 which has resolved all my issue with it. Foot pedal form factor, proper 9 volt power connection. Battery life should be comparable. Haven't gotten around to reviewing it yet but highly recommend it.

@Mordecai616

3 жыл бұрын

@@GASTV Appreciate the feedback and suggestion! I don't have another unit like the Line 6 to compare to, but I do have a good cable, and of course that's the real benchmark. At least with my unit, I'm not hearing any real difference between the two aside from my initial test when I noticed the muddiness like you did here. You mention others have confirmed the muddiness as well, but I've yet to come across those (I know they exist, I am by no means saying they don't), but I have come across many more saying there is no difference they can perceive between the WL-20 and a cable and it seems to compare favorably with more people than not. I know you guys don't take the dongle form factor as seriously as the pedalboard form factor, but I can't stress enough how much I prefer the WL-20 form compared to something I need to plug into a wall. I wanted to go truly wireless, and this does the job for me so far. We'll see how it goes when I can test more rigorously in rehearsal and live scenarios, but many have already done just that and reported no issues. I may wind up seeking out a G10 after all, since I value my own experience more than reviews and I have zero brand or product loyalty when it comes to putting up with compromises, but if the Boss continues as is, then I'll be totally satisfied with it. Again, I did hear what you heard in this video, but for whatever reason it may be, it appears to have resolved itself after charging and properly pairing the device, which I also realized I didn't do the first time. Might be possible there were some slightly defectives units out there, but really couldn't tell you for sure!

Confused. Wouldn’t you also need the 9v power adapter to even USE the g50? Other than using batteries, I’m assuming the base unit requires it, so really, the fact they don’t include an adapter is rubbish.

I'm amazed the G10 unit is still being shipped with a stand-out design weakness. I bought my unit in Dec 2018. It's been stationary for most of the time, but I have taken it to different locations a few times. The USB jack always felt loose and it never seemed to properly go in the socket. I suspected it was a fragile connexion. I was right, as mine now intermittently cuts out. I have been careful with the unit, but it seems that no amount of care can prevent these connexions from failing after being unplugging and plugging them in a few times. I am really disappointed. Everything else about the device is fantastic, but if the thing won't charge, or unexpectedly cuts out, then it's not fit for purpose.

@GASTV

4 жыл бұрын

I'd expect that you can get the unit replaced under warranty given you bought it under a year ago. The new G10S has fixed the problem by including a 9 volt power input and added some great new features to boot. That would certainly be the better way to go. It's a great wireless system apart from that design flaw.

For me the winner is the g10 it has more round and clean tone.. I used xvive u2 in my violin. Planning to buy g10. I have a problem with the xvive. At first it was great. But as I used it regularly it was weaken. Sounds droup out from time to time.

I heard a couple of other demos that didnt have the muddiness or distortion issue. Maybe it's that unit?

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

Ruben Skyline Both the WL20 and WL50 had the same sound and tonal characteristics, so it’s not a fault with a single unit. I have since found we aren’t the only ones who hear the distortion. If you were playing and testing it for rock, plugged into a tube amp with a slightly overdriven amp sound, you’re probably not going to listen out for the clarity in the clean sound and might miss it. We play jazz, R&B, funk and rock gigs and need to have a nice clean sound. All we did was plug the units directly into instrument level inputs in a PA and added some reverb, no overdrive, for the cleanest sound we could get.

@RobCmusic

4 жыл бұрын

GAS TV I play a clean a lot and notice no distortion with my Boss WL20.

Note that micro USB is designed to fail at the plug on the cable, before it damages the socket in the device as it's cheaper to replace a cable. Maybe try a different cable on your G10?

@GASTV

5 жыл бұрын

mirr0rd I have tried every single micro usb cable I own (at least 8 different kinds), it’s definitely the socket that is failing. I can actually bend the socket out of shape with my fingernail and have actually done so to try and get a tighter fit with my usb cable. The socket they used on my units are utter rubbish... perhaps they may have upgraded them in later units. Let us know if anyone has info on this.

I absolutely love the G10 but the micro USB is absolute garbage. My other guitar player and I bought ours both at the same time and within six months mine was super finicky and his shit itself completely. Really disappointed that line 6 didn't address this obvious design flaw. Even worse is that they are still to this day selling them as is with junk micro USB ports.

I'm afraid you can charge the transmitter without plugging it into the pedal using a usb type b. Should make sure of you facts before reviewing.

That makes me sad, because Boss is usually good, and Line 6 reminds me of guitar hero stuff lol.

FUCK THEM HATERS!!!!!! Just the title was enough for me to give you guys a thumbs up!

My wife bought me one for an early Father’s Day present. Unfortunately I have WiFi in my house and so do my neighbors. WiFi renders the WL-50 completely useless. It cuts in and out constantly no matter how far I place the receiver from the router. Even when I turn my WiFi off this system starts cutting out as soon as I go to another room, even with line of sight. I’m probably going to have her return it if I can’t make it work properly. I feel bad because it was a gift but if it doesn’t work then I would rather my wife get her money back.

@martinpees

2 жыл бұрын

Did you connected them together to find a free range of frequencies?

@adam05270

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinpees I traded it in 3 years ago.