Sometimes recasting just makes sense. Roger Moore was 57 years old when he was recast with Timothy Dalton. It just needed to be done - he was starting to look too old to be a convincing James Bond anymore.

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

... and Val Kilmer was the best Batman

@justinchristopher8974

3 жыл бұрын

Ok, Kilmer is better then Clooney. Kilmer makes a good Bruce Wayne.

@78Showboat

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis take that back!

@ScratchBashing

3 жыл бұрын

If you reel in a boot, ya gotta recast

@cbleslie

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis Them's fighting words.

If GW could start releasing legacy models or the STLs of the newer minis once they go out of production to companies that can cast/print small custom runs, I imagine it'd have a similar effect that Steam did on video game piracy. Who wants to deal with the faff and potential downsides of piracy when getting the legit thing is cheap and easy?

@Hinaguy749

3 жыл бұрын

@@BloopTube setup cost and all the time and experimentation you need to get even halfway decent results. 3D printer people have some of the biggest biases I've ever seen when it comes to being honest about how easy it is to start.

@alexstratford278

3 жыл бұрын

It would cannibalize plastic sales, and why bother to pay GW when you can get the STL off a website. Same thing happens with PDFs of the rules EDIT: Copy pasting a comment I made elsewhere: DRM doesn't work in most cases for a start. Its almost always broken within weeks of release Second of all, about 3d printing (Keep in mind here, I own a resin printer and have been messing with the hobby since ~2012, but i'm mostly going to talk about resin printing here): 3d printing is its own hobby, its not easy, its not exactly cheap to set up, and its not safe enough for end user use right now. Resin is toxic and needs special handling, FDM machines can be actual fire hazards. GW would see either minimal benefits or potentially massive downsides to supporting 3d printing. First of all, it would cannibalize their plastic sales, which is straight away a negative for them, Second of all they lose quality assurance for the product (Cleaning, supports, printer, resin, temperature are all big variables), Third they now have to deal with piracy that is literally copying a file. Almost impossible to actually trace. Fourth, they lose all repeat sales of a product they sold as an STL from printers. 3d printing isn't like the music industry, its a specific method that needs specialist equipment and knowledge to use, and the final result can vary, while also providing a worse quality result than GW plastic production (Even 0.05 or 0.025mm layer lines are still visible and can show up, FW has these on some of their newer resin casts as they 3d print the masters and in the right light they are visible). What Guy said about licensing a company to do the 3d printing? Thats viable for them. But GW will never sell STLs because thats shooting their own business in the back of the head.

@jollyjoker6340

3 жыл бұрын

They don't want the old models to be a cheaper alternative to the current lineup though. But they should be available at some price - if recasting is cheap and easy, GW refusing to sell some version of old models is bad PR and lowers the bar for buying illegal recasts.

@Hinaguy749

3 жыл бұрын

@@jollyjoker6340 old models aren't just a price thing, they're primarily a desired aesthetics thing. Most of it is people liking the look of an old kit.

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Like Abandonware, but for Warhammer!

GW: *no longer sells or make single bits or old models* People with 3D printers: "Fine. I'll do it myself."

@chriscordeiro1052

3 жыл бұрын

I understood that reference

@maddlarkin

3 жыл бұрын

With a half finished army what other option is there?

@theforcedmemefilthypapist2892

3 жыл бұрын

GWs shenanigans warrant a recast revolution

@doopdoopdopdop7424

3 жыл бұрын

The minute I get a printer with a scanner I’m cloning my platoon of riders intercessors and captain.

@lordhamster9452

3 жыл бұрын

@@doopdoopdopdop7424 noice! I am planning something with separate buts similar to give all the spare parts some purpose.

"It's a reasonable business decision" - that right there is your answer. GW doesn't do reasonable.

@michaelross778

2 жыл бұрын

As a business, they are doing more than reasonably well. They know what they are doing.

Fuck man. If I'd bought shares instead of Space Wolves at age 14 - I might actually have been able to afford this hobby.

@tristanpritchard7253

3 жыл бұрын

Yep me too, I wasted my mums offer of shares when they floated on the stock market for some green skins. Oh well, you live and learn.

@petramaier9153

3 жыл бұрын

@@tristanpritchard7253 I mean. their stock did pretty much nothing for almost a decade before it took off in 2016. How could you have known? The same goes for crypto. "If I had invested X in 2016" well, basically no one did.

@billdagrasshawking

3 жыл бұрын

I would highly recommend gaslands.....its cheap and fun. the modeling aspect is as easy or hard as you want it to be

@erikrungemadsen2081

3 жыл бұрын

You would have made even more buying rare warhammer mini sets and never open them, a mint edition original space hulk game and expansion went for 100.000 pounds at Suthersby's a few years ago.

"It's a business expense" is my mantra

@Darkvoidninja

3 жыл бұрын

great way to get past the boss yo.

@manictiger

3 жыл бұрын

"Inventory"

@smokayman

3 жыл бұрын

When GW starts respecting it’s customer’s wallets, I’ll start respecting their stance on recasts.

@liveoakgaming5967

3 жыл бұрын

@@Darkvoidninja you miss spelled "wife"

@Rawmel

3 жыл бұрын

Woah mikey! Didn't expect to see you here! Does this mean we get sisters of battle fan art- **BLAM**

Jesus. I cant imagine selling a treasure trove like this... I hope whatever pushed Lee to do this isnt chasing him to wherever he goes to restart his life.

@gbjanuary

3 жыл бұрын

Thought it was lockdown in entrainment industry.

@jeremiahembs5343

3 жыл бұрын

The newly instituted global tyranny follows us all.

@gillesdoranoreilly5601

2 жыл бұрын

Your waffling

@LizzieShmizzie

2 жыл бұрын

@@gillesdoranoreilly5601 ..what?

@gillesdoranoreilly5601

2 жыл бұрын

@@LizzieShmizzie wa do u not understand u not understand and why tf should I care

There's little reason to play the boyscout with a company that goes full dirtbag at every opportunity.

@jackrackham3406

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly that's my biggest deciding factor in the question of "is recasting/printing/pirating etc okay": how much of a dick is the original IP holder. And for the last two decades or so, GW has been Ron fucking Jeremy.

@TenebrusI07

2 жыл бұрын

@@jackrackham3406 As a matter of principle, i don't spend a cent with GW. All recasts, knockoffs, 3d printed and all codex downloaded PDFs. After what they did with the astartes project, fuck them.

@brutallica2944

2 жыл бұрын

@@TenebrusI07 Preach brother. I share PDF's as much as i can and encourage 3dprinting to the max.

@antongunther3977

2 жыл бұрын

@@TenebrusI07 Don't forget TTS. I know not everyone liked the humor or the lore, but you have to admit the sheer amount of work that was required of the series deserves recognition

@TenebrusI07

2 жыл бұрын

@@antongunther3977 Yep that just further cemented my hatred of GW. They were already a bad choice to spend money on with how terrible their QC is.

I made the Red and Blue Catalogues, when I used to run the GW mail order dept, took me a year, learning graphic design as I went :)

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

NO WAY. I literally just opened up the blue catalogue looking for your name... and it's literally the 8th word, haha. Well, you did an awesome job! :)

@stormcry0

3 жыл бұрын

You did a fantastic job , man. What program did you use at that time?

@edwardcrompton557

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis hey bud great work on all your videos as always. Thought provoking stuff. I had a question about the darkworld stuff that was in your retro showcase. I've been looking for expansions for that game for ages and would very much be interested in obtaining them off you if you wanted to part with them

@andywilson5828

3 жыл бұрын

Then you were a hero of mine. I worshipped those books

@WarHogz

3 жыл бұрын

I still reread those books every now and then, I’ve had them for decades, they’re awesome. Thanks!

When warhammer world first opened in the late 90s, they had all the catalogues on a big table in the middle of the shop (argos style for those from the UK). You could order any parts that you wanted directly and they would go and get them for you. If they didn't have it in stock, they would cast one for you on the spot! I miss those days.

@josht3534

3 жыл бұрын

I went warhammer world a few years ago and they casted me a squad of mk3 assault marines and brought them to us when we were sat in bugmans bar

@herculeholmes504

3 жыл бұрын

Sure, but there were no high detailed, cheap plastic kits. It's not just about "The Hobby" it's also about "The Industry" - it takes mass production for this cool stuff to happen.

@josht3534

3 жыл бұрын

@@herculeholmes504 tbf it was forge world stuff, but I do see where you are coming from. Unfortunately I only got into 40k when i was 9 in 2010 so Im a tad young for the cooler old metal stuff from back in the day. However I do want to make a vostroyan kill team and maybe have them as a 2nd army after drukhari

@countzero1136

3 жыл бұрын

My local GW store used to have order forms that you could fill in and hand over your money and a week later you'd go back and pick the bits up. I really miss the ability to order bits like that

I bought like 30 Gargoyles, a Hive Tyrant, and 3 venomthropes from a chinese recasting site. Took like three months to show up but they were great quality. And like 20% of GW's retail price.

Hilarious that GW would complain about intellectual property theft when the designs for both space marines and Tau armored suits are right of the cover art of Robert A. Heinlein's books.

@GVencislavov

2 жыл бұрын

And space marines only slightly reminiscent of Ralph McQarrie's concept arts... Years ago I stumbled on a quote or some such that said - If you steal from one source it's plagiarism, if you steal from many, it's research.

@biggest_mac5060

Жыл бұрын

Which books of his?

@johannvonrichthofen

9 ай бұрын

@@biggest_mac5060 Starship Troopers

@FormerGovernmentHuman

4 ай бұрын

@@biggest_mac5060You should definitely give it a read if you like 40k, the movie just does not give it justice. It’s more of a parody of the original source than it is based off it.

If FW's quality was as high as their price then recasting wouldn't be so much of an issue.

@xJadeWolfxx

3 жыл бұрын

This is how I feel. Some of the models are worth it but only very rarely.

@glurganergc4856

3 жыл бұрын

Even if it was all diecast metal and not cheap plastic most of it wouldn't be worth the highway robbery prices they charge

@ImaNecron

3 жыл бұрын

A lot of recasts I’ve seen are just better.

@charlescraig8994

3 жыл бұрын

@@ImaNecron I agree. I have some recastdtbst are amazing. I live in Australia so FW stuff is more expensive for us than anywhere in the world bar New Zealand. At one point it was cheaper to fly to the UK to but a Warlord titan and fly home rather than pay FW's outrageous shipping prices.

@pankalich

3 жыл бұрын

For long time last model I bought from FW was Astraeus after its release ... the cast was ok ... but there were some serious fitting problems that I do not believe correspond to the price tag on it ... so I asked for replacement ... then another, then another ... fitting problem remained, but on top of that I got parts with bubbles and coarse surface and details as if the form was not cleaned for long time ... I gave up.

I really like the idea of them selling the files to 3D print legacy models. It would solve so many problems while still letting them make their cut.

@VladimirKharchenko

3 жыл бұрын

They never would do that. Simply because you cannot sell the same rogue trader space marine to the same person twice or more times. GWs are greedy

@jasongrundy1717

3 жыл бұрын

It would make them less money. You have limited money and limited shelf space and limited time. GW is trying to take all of the money and they don't do that if they max out your time by having you fiddle with some other company's 3D printer and resin or use up all your shelf space on penny a piece models rather than their $3 per model.

@arielnir2679

3 жыл бұрын

Id love to get the casteus assault ram, but it was an expensive FW model, not a best seller probably, out of production model and i live in sweden. If i wanted to get a second hand version of it, it would probably cost me 3000 SEK( like 300$). Just fuck that!

@WarhammerGeek

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasongrundy1717 They could outsource the printing. Sites like Shapeways allow for that. GW provides legit and quality scans and files. Shapeways does the printing. The Consumer gets the old model they wanted. GW gets a cut and is still in control of the files. The consumer has an easy transaction without having to set up and print themselves. GW wouldn't have to worry about inventory or maintenance either. It would all be made to order and outsourced.

@wraithdino1217

3 жыл бұрын

@@VladimirKharchenko better than not getting any money at all as I can bring up quite a few already for free

If a company charges more than the market will bear, then its olny natural that new competitors move in to fill the neich

@gamerzplayerz5780

3 жыл бұрын

@@businessathlet3587 actually another a great example is currently Nerf.

@janczaplinski658

3 жыл бұрын

@@businessathlet3587 but Lego instructions and bricks are available individually

@VestedUTuber

3 жыл бұрын

@@janczaplinski658 Interesting you bring that up, since LEGO prices tend to vary depending on whether or not a set is from a licensed theme or an in-house one. What's to stop someone from sourcing the necessary elements for a low-value licensed set separately and building it for half the cost?

@benhall2235

3 жыл бұрын

Niche it’s pronounced neesh. It’s French.

@robertmartin6800

2 жыл бұрын

This is not market competition, it's theft.

One big caveat "Games Workshop doesn't care what's good for you or what you want" 😂 I miss old 90s GW minis

@DJ_Bonebraker

3 жыл бұрын

Right? After all the years of GW shitting all over the fan base, I feel it's karma that the fanbase is using recasting/3d printing to shit all over GW.

@rangerminiaturesandgaming3647

3 жыл бұрын

@@DJ_Bonebraker they are straight up predatory now.

@abdulhammouda4884

3 жыл бұрын

I think this is the thing isn't it? And to an extent I don't blame them. They took the public stance of "screw gamers, you'll buy what we tell you to" and have made more money now than ever before, so we totally deserve it. Killing Whfb should have devestated GW, it did the opposite cos as fans, we will eat shit and say thank you sir. So I totally agree with what you're saying, they wouldn't do it as it would be a small gain for them, big gain for their fans but may dilute future sets of people wanna use old models. Gotta make room for the new super stars I guess.

@TheFifthHorseman_

2 жыл бұрын

I miss some of the early 2000s stuff, like the previous generation of Daemonettes. Those things were gorgeous

@eskhaphey2873

2 жыл бұрын

GW mantra = -quality- control :|

There is a really good book called "Everything I learned about business I learned from the Grateful Dead" Authored by Berry Barnes. In it, he describes how the Grateful Dead had essentially the same problem with counterfeit shirts etc that 3rd parties were selling outside of venues and the like. The Grateful Dead essentially positioned themselves as content creators and rather than taking legal action, provided those third parties with officially licensed merch to sell, improving profits for everyone while maintaining high branding standards. Honestly, it's a no brainer if people are already making money off it to just say "hey, we will let you keep doing what you are doing and provide you higher quality molds but you are going to pay us a fee"

@countzero1136

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulyg405 The problem with a lot of companies that have been around a long time (around 40-ish years in the case of GW), is that they tend to cling to old, outdated business models that don't neatly integrate with the modern world of consumerism. We saw it with the music industry with Napster back in the 90s, until they were forced to adapt to new trading conditions and started offering cheap digital downloads (Although to be fair with a browser extension, you can get all the music you ever want free of charge off KZread but whatever) Big corporations never look after the fans though. When GW first started it was just a couple of guys who loved their hobby and turned it into a business, but then the suits come in and take over and turn it into a cold, faceless behemoth that treats the fans as nothing more than a bunch of cretins that get between them and their money. (That's a more or less direct quote from Virginmedia - One or my former work colleagues went to work for Virginmedia in their sales department, and on his induction day, he was told, in very clear terms, (and I quote) "The customer is a cretin between us and our money" ) Sadly it seems that GW is of much the same opinion. These corpos do NOT like us at all. They never have and they never will. They do not understand fandom (just observe the mess that Disney has gotten itself into by attacking their customers and calling them foul names - fortunately GW hasn't quite sunk to Disney levels of anti-consumer thinking, but the danger is ever-present) Just imagine how great it would be if these companies looked after their customers. What a world that would be...

@jasonlee1337

3 жыл бұрын

This is also what KC Green did once his "This is Fine" dog started going viral. Instead of trying to take control of the meme, he pushed for merch super hard with his webcomic collective and now you can buy official This Is Fine plushie dogs and they are Adorable.

@nateno5112

3 жыл бұрын

Kind of a no shit Sherlock business move

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

The problem here is, all GW is doing is potentially devaluing its own brand, and providing itself with competition, and they sure as hell won't risk losing control of their IP. GW makes its money by making and distributing miniatures, and the games are a means to that end. In theory, you could play their games using cardboard counters or marked tiddlywinks (not to mention with other types of mini), but they have cultivated a consumer base that desires official GW products, where the minis match the artwork, and, as the sole supplier, they can charge a premium on that. By allowing other companies to produce 'official', if older, designs, they leave themselves open to being undercut, where they would have the 'new' official miniatures, where they recouped the full profit, and charge a premium, competing against 'old' official miniatures, where they only received a fee. They would also incur the cost of policing the secondary market, and potentially create a market in illegally cloned official molds. The simplest way of providing access to their back catalogue, would be to scan the original molds/models and provide an on-demand 3D printing service, where you select what you want on the website, and receive your order by post. I can' t see them ever providing the source files, for the same reason as above. They could also pair this with a Heroforge-like service, where you can pay a pretty penny for a mini of your own design. This also might see them move more heavily into TTRPGs.

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

​@@paulyg405 If the mini market goes, I can't see GW really being able to keep control of Warhammer as a brand, which will massively devalue its licencing potential - the vertical integration between the rules and the models is what effectively enable them to define and control that universe. If the miniatures become community sourced, then it's almost certain that the rules will be too, and there'll be as-good-as-official homebrew army lists before you know it. On the plus side, it means the Squats come back, and I may end up being able to fulfill my teenage desire of getting Skaven in 40k. I don't see this as that likely, however, as the cost of a 3D printer adds a fairly hefty barrier to entry for new players. There are a few viable ways that they could change for the better, but they would fundamentally need to change their relationship to their community and IP. I'd like to see them adopting more of an open-source approach, similar to the one WotC takes with D&D (see also TSR's approach to the same property, which mirrored GW at present), with a site containing community contributions (and a possible certification process), and a 'community store', where third-party producers can sell their minis via a GW shopfront. This could possibly lead to the creation of whole new lines, and bring the Squats back, but GW would have to loosen the control on the tone and direction of the universe, but it could well net them a smaller slice of a much larger pie. Also, I'm pretty sure that there would be a market for Rogue Trader to act as the basis of a skirmish game, supported by a line of old-school re-issues.

"2% are recast only. Nice to know I have some Australian viewers." I lost it at this. :'D

@TheDemonGyro

3 жыл бұрын

When GW has the ability to order individual parts direct, I never once thought about recasting. When the direct service went away, so did some of my desire for the game since I was a poor teenager that loved converting/kit bashing and didn't want to spend $25 for an arm.

@leonhou7137

3 жыл бұрын

I bought everything from china, not recast, real GW stuff, cost around half of the price compare to Australia, Its getting more expensive now because even Chinese retail price got increased, but still cheaper.

@ColCaffran

3 жыл бұрын

@@leonhou7137 What website? I'm a kiwi and frankly the fact that I'm paying 50% more than forex says I should irritates the hell out of me. Warlord games sells it's products at close to what forex says, and they too are designed and made in the UK so it's clearly a policy issue with GW rather than any actual economics reason.

@leonhou7137

3 жыл бұрын

@@ColCaffran Chinese website Taobao which is local version of aliexpress, but no English language supported. they do accept visa and MasterCard payment, and they do ship to New Zealand. both by air and sea, I recently bought a PRIMARIS CHAPLAIN ON BIKE which cost me 47 NZD, plus 13 NZD shipping cost by airmail, by sea will be cheaper if you buy in slightly bigger quantity. airmail took a bit more than a week while sea took a month, but air mail charge you 13 NZD per 500g while sea charge you 13 NZD for the first 500G than each additional 500g will only cost less than a dollar.

@EnterTheFenix

3 жыл бұрын

@@ColCaffran you're paying 66% more in most cases.

Many years ago GW themselves had a recasting tutorial in White Dwarf. It was limited to doing details like you would find on the Chapter upgrade kits now by mucking about with greenstuff and vaseline, but it definitely sparked ideas in nerds of my vintage.

It's like emulating video games. Tons of video games would never see the light of day if they weren't emulated.

@nobody2021

2 жыл бұрын

The prerogative of the company is only to make money, if it's not a game that they care about selling anymore, then they don't care. It is illegal and they will shut you down for it no questions asked. Literally does not matter whether they were making money on it or not, doesn't matter if they were ever going to make money on it ever again

@icngames1032

2 жыл бұрын

​@@nobody2021 If I recall, part of the video said to post your opinion. That's my opinion.

@SWIFTO_SCYTHE

2 жыл бұрын

@@icngames1032 yea he did say post our opinions in the comments.

@icngames1032

2 жыл бұрын

@@SWIFTO_SCYTHE Yeah, I was just saying it in a douche way for fun.

@GoatTheGoat

2 жыл бұрын

Never see the light of day... except for people playing the physical cartridges on the actual game consoles. The idea that emulation is necessary to play old games is completely absurd.

I wish GW would do something like this getting old parts 3d printed or recasted by a 3rd party.

@corbingovers7559

3 жыл бұрын

The problem GW will have is the overhead/profit with maintaining both systems. When I buy a plastic intercessor kit I need to buy at least 2 boxes (15 minimum troops). That's X profit that GW makes per box, subtract the cost of the raw materials (I'm leaving this out as it's insignificant), the cost of the Artist (A), the cost of the Marketing (M), and the cost of the sprue (S). So X(total) = X - A - M - S. Now you'd say "if we go to a 3d printed file, that knocks out M and S so I should get a file for cheaper right?", Wrong. The main cost of a new model is the sprue mold (roughly 10-20k per sprue), that cost is then divided over the number of boxes they're expected to sell. More boxes sold, the lower cost per sprue (IMO This is why GW pricing is the way it is). GW wants to keep X(total) as high as possible. If they go to a hybrid model with printed and non-printed models, GW will be incentivized to use the 3d printed files to subsidize the sprue cost to make sure that they don't lose money so X(printed) = X-A-S. Also you're only purchasing a file ONCE. Nobody is stupid enough to think you can control a 3d printed file after it has been released, see why the 40k app exists and they no longer do .epub codexes. So they're now incentivized to price the file as if you're buying the kit multiple times, OR the physical boxes will become even more expensive as GW seeks to maintain the profit level. Also there's the issue of copyright. So IMO if they embrace 3d printing, you're looking at 100 bucks for the "intercessor" kit files. or 100 buck intercessor boxes. I am not defending GW's pricing scheme at all; All I'm saying is that I'm not buying an official intercessor file for the amount I currently pay for files on Patreon (I got most of a TK army files for like 30 bucks). I think your idea of selling the files of either OOP models or random upgrade bits is the way to go here without them going all scrooge McDuck on us (as S no longer exists in this case), and just keep the models in the legends line (not tournament playable). tl;dr: you think GW pricing is scummy NOW? if they get into the 3d printing realm it's going to get a Whole lot worse.

@corbingovers7559

3 жыл бұрын

@G Soap I agree 100% this could work.

@TheLegendMythMan

3 жыл бұрын

They used to do this, as he pointed out in the video. They stopped it and said that the molds was getting to old, but I am sure it was mostly because of the cost.

@redyellowpink01

3 жыл бұрын

@G Soap it could work but that's not how gw operates. There's so many parallels between GW and Nintendo. The way they both leverage their old IP is really odd. Quality IP and some nostalgia for their old products is largely what keeps people passionate about them so they drip feed it out in little teases. Think about the snes and nes mini console things Nintendo released. They were really limited supply and a lot of people couldn't get them. They have a good selection of old games on the 3ds virtual console but there's still loads you can't get including any snes and gba games. In the same way GW waited about 15 years to start supporting necromunda and blood bowl again. Now they're teasing "the old world". They won't do it. They hoard their IP like a dragon on its treasure.

@1crlski

3 жыл бұрын

@@corbingovers7559 I have to disagree, there are companies already offer stls or a mini, granted they are resin minis which some people think are inferior, (I don't) and it works for them. GW will have to look at this option sooner then later or the only people buying their plastics will be the "whales" who buy any of their stuff no matter the price, because they will be the only ones left who can afford their prices the way they keep raising them and giving you less for your money.

Just makes me wanna see a "You wouldn't Recast a Handbag" ad

@TheBobbytables

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/a2por66qYcfIZNY.html

@jingofbandits

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oYqFq6RmgdjVn7g.html

@HMJ66

3 жыл бұрын

YOU WOULDN'T RECAST A POLICEMAN

@salamanda550

3 жыл бұрын

Man, *none* of these replies are referencing the ad I was thinking of. Always got it on DvD's in the UK, with stupidly overdramatic music over the top. Very early 2000s

@jamesclifford6429

3 жыл бұрын

HMJ66 You wouldn’t recast a policeman’s hat

Print on demand books allow roleplaying books to stay in print for as long as the company has the license. 3D printing could very well do the same thing for miniatures.

Damn it, it's not theft. It's infringement. Whether you think it's ok or not (intellectual property vs personal property rights) if you're not removing something it's not theft. That's why it's solved through civil law not the police. There are more nuances but hearing people call it theft is a pet peeve.

@ericdugdale8585

2 жыл бұрын

I think that other than just ignorance, the other reason people call it "theft" is the perception of entitlement. The company is *entitled* to have that product sold for a profit, so if someone is getting it for free, then that's counted as direct money lost from the company's moral entitlements. It's the same reasoning behind how the music industry claimed billions in lost revenue from online distribution of songs ~15 years ago or whatever it was. They felt entitled to the sales and thus assumed that everyone who pirated would have otherwise bought their music.

@tonyennis1787

2 жыл бұрын

I am not sophisticated enough to understand the point, though I don't doubt you. But to me, it sounds like a distinction without a difference.

@iainmcdonalds4018

2 жыл бұрын

@@tonyennis1787 The most important distinction. Theft is a something you get arrested for, infringement is something someone has to sue you over.

@ExternalDialogue

2 жыл бұрын

@@tonyennis1787 With theft you are taking something from someone, making them lose a thing they invested production costs in and denying them return on that investment. Infringement/piracy you are just denying them a potential return on their investment.

@somecuriosities

Жыл бұрын

Very well said Iain. Part of me wants to slap sense into these otherwise good folk and tell them to snap the hell out of it - modern copyright law as we know is literally a legal fiction lobbied for by disney. It doesn't protect artists; it protects monopolies. Its immoral. Its corrupt. And its wrong.

I would absolutely LOVE to see what you got from that buyout!

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

YESSS

@ralphparlour7972

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis me too! The old hammer episodes are some of my favourite.

@commanderstorm8874

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis I want to see it too

@theneonseal6792

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis That would make a very cool episode.

@davidwaldram594

3 жыл бұрын

I'm more interested in Penny's opinion on models older than she is.

This was a great video. Regardless of whether recasting is immoral or not, it should be acknowledged that GW pricing people out of the hobby will necessarily lead to more people buying recasts. That's something they should consider every time they do something like re-release terrain sets from 2 years ago for 120% of the original price with 30% of the content missing.

@deztag3964

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, except that tabletop gamers leaving hurts GW 3 fold. Local games become harder to find so then the community shrinks, the relevance of GW’s lore takes a hit (their most valuable IP, which let’s not forget was their amalgamation of pop culture and small scale community modeling that individuals were doing at their time of founding. The community at the time was what inspired GW and gave them a lot of their aesthetic) and lastly, GW can’t sell rules or paint etc. I could afford legit GW but we get shafted on price here so fuck GW as a matter of principle, I’m not gonna be involved in any way. 40% above UK prices for no reason. I’ve seen people analyse at our import taxes, shipping costs etc and is worth maybe 5-7% Why should I spend $88 on a local stock Leman Russ (plus postage) when I can buy THREE WW2 tanks SHIPPED from the UK for LESS, models which assemble better mind. How can a GW tank cost more than 3 TIMES a smaller companies offering INCLUDING INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING AROUND THE PLANET?!? I can buy 45 infantry models for $110 which come with more gear, pose and misc options than most GW stuff. A box of guardsmen costs $56 here. 10 Space Marines can reach $88... when consumers realise they are being treated badly, the only thing that happens is the company looses. I do agree that people don’t have a right to pirate GW IP. GW doesn’t have a right to price gouge my domestic market for their shareholders pocket and act like they are holier than thou. Folk around here gave them their start and built the community which made GW the position they have today. GW’s thanks for this is fuck you and all you did getting us here, building terrain for your local hobby shop and teaching friends our game, spending your personal time and money on community events; spend half a days pay on one box or get out of the way for rich noobs who will

@nickvanachthoven7252

3 жыл бұрын

@@TetsugakuSan you seem to think people care about morality

@MikeTheGamer77

3 жыл бұрын

@@TetsugakuSan stop defending a faceless corporation that does not care about you.

@Splatterpunk_OldNewYork

3 жыл бұрын

They do not humbly bow to the market. Market will in turn tear them apart like a rottweiler with a stuffed toy.

@bigch33se11

3 жыл бұрын

@@TetsugakuSan who gives a shit lmaooooo

Man, I don't miss many of the old sculpts, but I do miss the old mail order process. I remember the old GW white shipping boxes with the troll on the front. Sometimes you would even find stuff in your box you didn't order.

best thing about old games workshop models is you can see exactly were they stole the IP from in the first place. Heinlein, Geiger, Cameron

@jwfourman

3 жыл бұрын

The Irony.

@ArkhanNightman

3 жыл бұрын

I liked that better than a lot of GW's original designs.

@mantha6912

3 жыл бұрын

*Frank Herbert intensifies*

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

"Legally distinct terminator-like product"

@ArkhanNightman

3 жыл бұрын

Michael Moorcock. So much Moorcock.

Recasting "out of production" models is not illegal, even in the UK. There is a legal doctrine called "violenti non fit injuria" in this case violation of IP law does not cause financial loss- because model is no longer produced.

@WraithRaider

3 жыл бұрын

Its a difficult argument, you'd have to show that there was no possibility of profit at all and GW could say they were going to rerelease it at some point. Ultimately messing with someone's IP can land you in trouble and is risky. You want to be the guy in court making those arguments?

@mrwabbit9576

3 жыл бұрын

@@WraithRaider the burden of proof would lie on GW that they intended to do something with it. All it would take in court would be to show that the line of products is no longer in production and hasn't been for X amount of years and the judge would likely wave the case off, if it even got that far which it probably wouldn't.

@samhobbs9116

3 жыл бұрын

@@WraithRaider I would. GW would have to prove unequivocally that they were going to re realise every single model and piece from the last 40 years. Not at some vague time in the future maybe. Now, with designs and trademarks and documentation stating every line will be remade and introduced for public purchase. They can't and would not do that based on money alone so you would win. Smartest thing to do would be to make deals with them like Guy said and start buying 3d printers and pay the guys that recraft it all for fun anyway.

@WraithRaider

3 жыл бұрын

Lots of IP lawyers here willing to take on the massive GW legal team. Good luck...

@WraithRaider

3 жыл бұрын

Lots of IP lawyers here willing to take on the massive GW legal team. Good luck...

gw statement: warhammer is for everybody* *not for the poors

@matthewstone1362

3 жыл бұрын

Let them eat plastic.

@Johnsmith-fz2dm

3 жыл бұрын

Are any hobbies cheap though? Gaming, playing instruments, nothings free. The start collecting sets are the best value for money, loadsa cool minis for under £50 (from 3rd party sites) Think theyre probably replacing these with combat patrols though?

@Johnsmith-fz2dm

3 жыл бұрын

@@littleweaselboy2865 Sure, we are spoilt these days with good quality free games, when I was younger the only type of games that were free were demos or shareware. But my point still stands, gaming and other hobbies are generally speaking not free.

@DungeonMiser

3 жыл бұрын

@@Johnsmith-fz2dm I can make an undead skirmish with around 30 miniatures and a few war engines and elites for around $15 US. In fact, I'll do a few episodes on my channel to prove it.

@Johnsmith-fz2dm

3 жыл бұрын

@@DungeonMiser ok cool? Not gonna be GW high standard minis though are they.

A fellow from Russia, so i know a thing or two about recasts) We have recasts of both old and newer models, sometimes at absurdly low prices with more than tolerable quality even for painting, especially if you can wield a knife properly). For reference-an official box with a 10-girl squad of sisters of battle that we can buy from our stores will cost us 3500 roubles(50€ give or take), a recaster sells for 1200-1800 roubles, which is 2-3 times cheaper than the official stuff. Recaster also quite often sell separate parts in bundles or even by 1 piece. Wait, do you want a full lascannon devastator squad, or 5 power swords for your vanguard veterans? Do you want specific pauldrons, capes, helmets, 10 plasma guns to put in your squads? You don’t have to buy a whole box for them! The biggest thing that i furiates me personally is ForgeWorld, and their models. A contemptor drednought without the arms! costs 50€, and each set of weapons will cost you an additional 15€ a piece, For a full model you are forced to pay 80€, which wouldnt be so bad, if it wasnt for two things. DELIVERY COSTS AND QUALITY. Today it is better-you finally HAVE an option for a cheap delivery of 15€. Before, 2-3 years earlier, it used to be just 50€ and up. Its almost as bad as Australia! Also, the quality was...mostly shit. Perhaps ForgeWorld hates us russians, but all the models that arrived were warped and had mouldline the size of a football field. In the end, recasters came in, offering the same contemptor drednought with 2 weapons at virtually the same quality, even better in certain things, for 25€. 3 times cheaper and delivery that didn’t force you to sell a kidney to the shadey looking guy around the corner! As a cherry on top-we don’t even have the luxury of directly ordering stuff, instead receiving a choice of things that our distributers ordered from GW. Covid didnt pull its punches, and the shelves were BARREN. For us it is often the very question of affordability that forces us to make the choice in favor of recasts. Both price-wise, and availability-wise. Also-the recasters are not shady, there arent actually that many of them that have a decent enough model line a good quality, and they are well-known in the community. Some even offer custom models, which can be GORGEOUS. Good luck trying to find Blood Pact minis, GW doesnt care. But the recasters do). It is always a choice, whether or not to buy recasts, but what is better long-term for the hobby-a large diverse market and fanbase, using both official and non-official models, or a stagnating market where one company makes all the decisions for you and annually increases prices, making the hobby less and less available? Wait a minute...блять.

@B1-997

Ай бұрын

Im from Australia, and im thinking of getting into recasting for personal use, since GW prices here are a total rip off now.

Theft and copyright infringement are two separate concepts but this video keeps stating that recasts are "theft" - this notion has even been rejected in the courts. please add a correction!

@aidanquiett668

3 жыл бұрын

That correction only applies in certain jurisdictions, and for most people, its likely that the companies recasting are breaking the law in the countries they sell in

@danbull

3 жыл бұрын

​@@aidanquiett668 then calling it theft also only applies in certain jurisdictions, and I highly doubt that recasting miniatures is a crime in most countries. Replicating copyrighted content is generally a civil infringement at most, and not a crime.

@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745

3 жыл бұрын

DAN BULL!

Guy: "Reporting on a crime isn't a crime" Me: *checks UK law* UK Law: "Not entirely accurate, but I'll let it slide"

@Lutzow706

3 жыл бұрын

Reporting on a crime in progress is absolutely legal.

@gameswithtoasty3246

3 жыл бұрын

@@Lutzow706 Depends on the crime and how you report on it.

@horseradishpower9947

3 жыл бұрын

@@gameswithtoasty3246 Interesting... please elaborate?

@gameswithtoasty3246

3 жыл бұрын

@@horseradishpower9947 If you were to report on a crime a judge put a reporting restriction in place, you'd probably go to prison. If you were to report on a something and breached any of the many automatic, and not disclosed, restrictions you could also go to prison. Or be fined. There are many, many ways people reporting on a crime could land you in crap. Heck, even if you weren't a bona fide reporter, you could be landed with all sorts for breaching this stuff. Not relevant to the video, naturally, just a little quip about UK law.

@horseradishpower9947

3 жыл бұрын

@@gameswithtoasty3246 So... what you are saying, then... is that it is illegal to report on a crime in the UK. Also, bona fide journalist... who determines that? Which goes into the topic of information control. I will take what you say at face value, and conclude that the UK is a dictatorship, because of all of these laws you have highlighted to control what is said and known.

One big problem Guy, GW discovered their legal ground to produce the old miniatures was very poor due to the lack of documentation, this during the case against Chapter House. GW have screwed their artists blind for years with constrictive and unfair contracts and have now discovered most of them no longer want to have anything to do with them. GW actually lost a lot of IP from this case, as no documents of agreement between artists and them could be produced as GW did not store these documents. Thus you can find the old Men at Arms miniatures being sold by their original creators at The Foundry, although they originally appeared in the GW catalogues, with other original artists turning to Kickstarter and other platforms to bring back production of their work. Have you ever wondered why the Perry brothers have little to do with GW now?

@giantnerd14

3 жыл бұрын

I'd assume it was because the Perry Brothers knew they had enough clout to strike out on their own, just like Duncan did. I have to imagine that losing those IP was the reason GW had stopped using contract labor decades ago, bringing model design completely in-house around the time 40k and fantasy started to really crystalize (which is also probably why White Dwarf went from an industry news format to a company-centric one). Also, most of what they "lost" in the Chapter House case was specifically stuff that DIDN'T have models (which made them fair game) or had very generic names (Space Marine vs. Adeptus Astartes).

@canningmatthew

3 жыл бұрын

@Matthew Grosse "GW have screwed their artists blind for years with constrictive and unfair contracts and have now discovered most of them no longer want to have anything to do with them." huh?

@canningmatthew

3 жыл бұрын

​@@giantnerd14 not about "clout". The Perry's have always been huge fans of historical periods and have sculpted ranges that are with Wargames Foundry etc. They were never constricted by much more than time, having been part of GW for so long I am led to believe their contracts were not the same as later ones which prevented sculptors working for anyone outside of GW - which TBH isn't that unusual.

@giantnerd14

3 жыл бұрын

@@canningmatthew I think it's a little about clout. They knew they had enough recognition of their talent to maintain a customer base. You can have the best sculpts out there, but if nobody knows who you are you don't have a great chance at succeeding. Also, I think what the OP was talking about with the screwing over of artists is that GW (like a lot of companies back then and now) hired their artists as independent contractors instead of employees. It's not a system I am a fan of, but that's how it was.

@canningmatthew

3 жыл бұрын

@@giantnerd14 thats how a lot of businesses operate tbf.

As oldhamerer, I am very happy that someone touched this topic. Thank you for your support. I hope that vour voice will reach Games Workshop...

@jwfourman

3 жыл бұрын

Too bad GW is deaf.

@lordvadertheleftie9703

3 жыл бұрын

GW sit idle and deaf on their throne like the false emperor

@DirkDeadeye_

2 жыл бұрын

I used to collect orks and space wolves, and paint commissions in the late 90s I wish I hadin't sold em. Cause now I actually want to play the game. :(

When the company puts models at such stupidly high prices because they know you have to buy 2 or 3 of those boxes to have a decent army, that's kinda extorting, so a bit of recasting won't kill games workshop and will save you money.

The price of Blood Knight models 20 years ago is what is pushing me to say "tough GW, tough"

@GrassMudHorseLand

3 жыл бұрын

35 aud per model back 8, 9 years ago is insane. When the shopkeepers told the price at first, I thought he was joking.

@polla2256

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair in my youth I used to "borrow" them or call it a 5 finger discount

@newtpondskipper

3 жыл бұрын

$100 US for five models at least fifteen years ago. Wonder why I never saw official models on the board...

@PoorManatee6197

2 жыл бұрын

I just wish I could find some blood knight recast, always loved the models but they were so expensive, now even more since they are out of production.

The point about 3D printing is real important. I've actually been using retro bits, scanned and remade, for some digital kitbashing for printed minis. You could already pretty much print off an army for less than a percent of the price of buying it from GW. On good resin printers like an Elegoo, you can't even see the grain of the printing lines after you paint it up.

@commanderstorm8874

3 жыл бұрын

Or you can make an entire army for the price of a few boxes and just have them as cardboard although it’s not as intimidating if you have like 5 carboard baneblade

@bww33

3 жыл бұрын

I printed off 2000 points of Necrons for about 1/5th of the price.. never buying official GW minis again. I think that the fact that there are 1:1 printable copies of most of GW's products out there just shows that the value is in the gaming system, rather than the miniatures themselves. If GW got on the printing bandwagon, they might get a head start on staying relevant

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

@@commanderstorm8874 if someone took the time to make a fleet of cardboard Baneblades I'd be pretty scared

@emilyconnolly6286

3 жыл бұрын

According to the documentation I have seen so long as you do the modeling/scanning yourself and use at least one official GW bit they literally said they have no problem with it

@robertjokebr1480

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis i used to make papercraft vehicles, they take A LOT OF TIME to be made, i don't like to assemble plastic vehicles from warhammer 40k, but i do like papercraft, so that's the reason.

It's amazing how effective Games Workshop has apparently been at keeping recasters off the internet. There are almost no recasters openly advertising.

@wfjhDUI

3 жыл бұрын

@mandellorian I run ad-blockers and don't use FB so I can't comment on that. My comment was based on my experiences trying to find recasters on google. The stuff I do find is very wink-wink, as if this were a drug deal.

@E40kGeek_Tactical

3 жыл бұрын

You just got to know where to look ;) They are still around and will continue to be until GW get's their shit together with FW

@kaceeiacovone7840

2 жыл бұрын

You just need to know where to look. My buddy seems to get a new primarch every month from china

@AVspectre

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t collect Warhammer but have done a cursory search out of curiosity and had trouble finding sources but I think my lack of familiarity with the GW models. Without explicit references to GW or mentioning what the unit is specifically, I can’t tell if it’s a recast or a proxy.

@will_of_europa

Жыл бұрын

If you start prodding around you figure out how to connect with a few. Takes a lot of effort though.

Land Speeder Tempest on Forgeworld: *$67* Land Speeder Tempest on Recast: *$25* I don't need to explain any further here.

@mantha6912

3 жыл бұрын

Recast price: Reasonable Forgeworld price: Borderline extortion

@thewildcardperson

3 жыл бұрын

@@medusaminiatures4006 I could pay some desingr on fiverr 200 bucks and I know theyd be the same quality if not better

@thewildcardperson

3 жыл бұрын

@@medusaminiatures4006 hell I'd Make a bet give me 10,000 dollar and I'd be able to hire enough designers to make firgures of every character and soldier during the crusade big E and the gods to

@crossmr

3 жыл бұрын

2006-2008 and probably even later. 10 Space marines for $35. 2021: 8 space marines for $75.

@Darthvegeta8000

3 жыл бұрын

@@crossmr THIS... it's ridiculous.

"Daddy I'm hungry! Why didn't you buy food?" "Quiet you! These classic Games Workshop collectables are my favorite children!"

@remarinracoon5309

3 жыл бұрын

That child wouldn't be hungry. They would have been sold for parts long ago

@carloscollazoii

3 жыл бұрын

😂😂😜

That bit about the 3D gave me an idea: What if GW offered a HeroForge like service for customising HQ options? It could even be possible to include all those old style bits.

@twoinchrazorblade

3 жыл бұрын

that sounds amazing

Be me >last 5 kits I’ve bought have been screwed up. >decides to get resin printer.

@Vanadras

3 жыл бұрын

I've printed a 2k Death Guard army for like 75 bucks of resin. The future is now.

Space Crusade is so much fun! The dreadnought's angry face cracks me up every time though.

Anyone remember what issue of white dwarf had a terrain piece "drop pod" and they went through how to make it? I think it was around the time the first dreadnaught redesign came about... Way back when

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

Was it cardboard? I bet it was cardboard

@DamplyDoo

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis I think it was a jar of some kind like a plastic screw top jar and they used it in a later battle report as an objective marker

@armedbrit493

3 жыл бұрын

@@DamplyDoo And promptly shat themselves when they saw the local hobby club army with 6 jam jar drop pods?

@richar5d644

3 жыл бұрын

@@armedbrit493 Just imagines a teenager coming to a 2000 point game with a fully kitted Deathwatch army with 6 drop pods that say "from granny, with love" on them as they are dropped into the battle to purge the heretics :D.

@abrannan

3 жыл бұрын

White Dwarf 132 had plans and build instructions for a plasticard Baneblade.

It's a great idea, that's why GW won't do it and also because they want total control over their retro minis.

@deztag3964

3 жыл бұрын

Sauce? GW hardly ever sells them, has never offered the majority of back catalogue even once,, makes tiny runs when they do at a price premium. They either have no interest in offering them OR are trying to keep the old stuff locked away to steer people towards a culture of focusing upon the latest hotness

@bcoyne12345

3 жыл бұрын

@@deztag3964 You hit the nail on the head there I think

This reminds me of a similar issue regarding lore. I love Warhammer Fantasy lore and greatly appreciate the work of Rick Priestly and others in regards to their work on the old Army Books and Rule Books. Games Workshop no longer sell these books, and so are not making any money over these antiquated works, but at the same time make an active effort to shut down the sharing of PDFs online? It's so strange and sad to see these brilliant works simply lost to the ages...

You brought nuance to this discussion, and attempted to come up with actual answers to the root causes of the issue without patronizing anyone. I appreciate that. A few years back I was strongly considering jumping through the hoops to get recasts of Tallarn, because GW just doesn't sell them anymore (despite going on to show them in the most recent Guard codex). I would have payed $40 for a squad of metal Tallarn, I just wanted them for Kill Team, but I felt like I was forced to seek out recasters because I had no other options. At least, I felt like I didn't. In the end I settled for 3rd party bits, sculpting, and Cadians.

Lead rot is real. Some of the oldest models being officially available in resin would be amazing.

@InstabilerStoff

3 жыл бұрын

Does lead decay over time?

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

@@InstabilerStoff My minis from the late 80s haven't.

@InstabilerStoff

3 жыл бұрын

@@arfived4 Yeah i have a couple of lead containing minis from that era (But i didnt exist back then so i wouldnt know if theres such a problem) and theyre good from what i can tell.

@khublaklonk4480

3 жыл бұрын

"Lead Rot" is the formation of lead carbonate in the presence of ethanoic (acetic) acid. It can destroy a lead-rich miniature because the carbonate reacts with the air and moisture to make more ethanoic acid, so the cycle is self-sustaining. Lead carbonate is a yellow-white or grey-white powdery solid, so its formation eats away at the structure of a figure, especially very early hollow-cast lead from the early to mid 20th century. It's easily prevented by good storage, also by priming them properly, and I have unpainted miniatures from the early 80s that are as good as they day they were cast.

@InstabilerStoff

3 жыл бұрын

@@khublaklonk4480 Yeah all mine are dry aswell, no prob there. Also theyre more from the late 80s if i remember the start of rogue trader correctly.

I hope that GW hears this and understands how much money they’ve could’ve made by being in touch with these sorts of things

@itubei9315

3 жыл бұрын

Or maybe it's completely moral since you have the rules. Then you can play it however you like and have fun: with bottlecaps, similar or alternative models, recasts or 3d-printed model.

@1crlski

3 жыл бұрын

@@TetsugakuSan Sorry it may be illegal, but it's not immoral to me immoral is having people spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours building and painting their fantasy army, just to have the company pull the plug on the game and leave us all with those models collecting dust on a shelf or in a box somewhere, immoral is raising your prices in the middle of a pandemic and every new release when people around the world are in lock down.

@calveras86

3 жыл бұрын

@@TetsugakuSan not sure if trolling 🤔

@calveras86

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sc4recrow44 wow and I thought the ultimate reason for wargaming was to have fun with other people, not being the richest

@seanblank9708

3 жыл бұрын

they already know, GW is the dumbest company ive ever seen that hasnt gone out of business yet, they owe everything they have right now to die hard fans and old board gamers, once we all die of covid, GW is history.

I see that full page of bretonnia foot knights and I am filled with such longing and despair

@Guzwar

3 жыл бұрын

Dude, same. I've still got a slew of unpainted models from the fifth edition boxed set in my basement. Painted three skinks today, will attempt three Bret archers next weekend. I looked up some of the models on ebay and it's true, the prices are nuts.

Those old chaos sculpts are legends

recast company name: The Old Ones

@Walterpobjoy

3 жыл бұрын

That is just..... Perfection!

Does James Workshop need saving? Seems like he’s doing just fine right now, bringing in record profits.

@TheRavenhelm

3 жыл бұрын

Due to it’s size and market reach, GW serves as the gateway to miniature war gaming for the majority of new comers. Many of these then move onto other game systems as well, supporting the wider industry.

@stevenfitzgerald2214

3 жыл бұрын

It’s the battle for his soul not his profits. He will make money but people will leave and people will switch to different games and people will 3D print because “fuck James and his workshop”. I was brought in through black library so there’s a magic there for me that’s untouched by prices, meta, rules, favouritism etc If you don’t have a love for the company I think a lot of people, instead of playing a xenos army with old models and rules, would be playing a half-orc paladin in DnD.

@hiltedhobbies

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Sc4recrow44 They are still a billion dollar company with a brainwashed following... People didn't think they would last throughout the early 2000's when oldhammer was failing them

@HMJ66

3 жыл бұрын

@@stevenfitzgerald2214 Games Workshop as a company are 90% of the reason I don't really play any more. I refuse to give them money when for probably the last 20-odd years they've been doing everything in their power to shut out and gate off their game from the average consumer. Constant price hikes, retiring of old models, shutting down anyone trying to make spare parts for models (not even recasts, but new original sculpts of models that GW have never and would never have sold). There's a reason they call it plastic crack - they make the intro boxes nice and affordable to get you into the hobby, then jack up the prices of any half decent units and sell them in ridiculously sized/priced boxes while actively trying to shut down any and all competition. Also also while giving IP rights to any shovelware developer who wants to make a GW branded video game regardless of quality because money. GW have done everything they can to create and maintain a monopoly and fuck over their customers in every way they can think of in the name of more profit. I have respect for the art they create, but I utterly loathe their business practices and the way they treat their staff and customers.

@hiltedhobbies

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sc4recrow44 Hopefully! They seem to be on another path of pushing people out again. You would think they could make things more affordable... especially since it's all plastic and no pewter.

I miss going into a GW and browsing the bits catalog. Being able to buy specific parts or sprus was amazing for custom builds

We totally bought a spin caster and mold rubber and cast Space marines in Austin in the 1990s. We got the bulk of our lead at street corners where tire weights commonly fall off tires. A lot of times we were using cast legs to go with extra plastic kit arms and torsos. In the end we ended up learning how to sculpt and cast our own original figures. So it was less piracy and more of a learning experience. We NEVER sold any of them. More often we melted the down for the metal and cast them into other things as needed. What a hobby!!!!!!

Honestly, GW should just start 3d scanning OOP models, and selling STL files so people can print them at home.

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

Not really sure why a company that makes its money from selling miniatures, is going to give its customers the ability to mass-produce (and potentially sell) their own models, likely for a small up-front cost.

@ArynCrinn

3 жыл бұрын

@@arfived4 If it's for minis that they no longer believe are profitable enough to continue producing themselves, why not? Worst case, they find that they retired something too soon.

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArynCrinn GW's business model is based on it having a monopoly on the figures for their game. If you can print, or can pay someone to print, a slightly-out-of-date army for a fraction of the cost of a new one, why would you buy the official GW material? The difference between, say, an 80's Space Marine with a bolter and a modern Space Marine with a bolter, is entirely cosmetic.

@Baldur825

3 жыл бұрын

@@arfived4 anyone that wants to pirate GW products is already doing so. But as we've seen with music, video games, television shows like GoT and even Dungeons and Dragons, piracy can be great for business. Also, there are plenty of people like me who have monthly subscriptions to things they hardly ever use, like Dndbeyond. I'd definitely jump in to a Warhammer subscription if it meant reducing the barrier to entry from ~$600 to something around $15- $20 a month. Yeah, obviously it's less than what they make on people currently in the hobby, but it's a while lot more than they get from me currently.

@arfived4

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Baldur825 Piracy only works if the illicit consumer comes back later as a legitimate customer. If you can buy 'fake' GW models for less than the official ones, there's no reason to ever make that switch, and no money in it for GW - they don't make money from you playing the game, just the stuff that you need to play it. I could see how a subscription service could work on a 'pay per print' basis, but I can't see how it would reduce the barrier of entry for most wannabe players - 3D printers are scarce and expensive, and most people get into Warhammer in their teens.

Recast/3D print all the OOP models you want, I say.

I would love to see more of the retro haul as I got started December 95 so it brings back a few memories watching this.

I have been using press molds with green stuff to make bits for quite a while now. I would definitely recommend it. I will never run out of out-of-production bits.

The problem with GW is that they charge a ridiculous amount of money for their character models. Too much. This is because they know that they are a necessity for an army to function. It's how they get super high profits out of something that costs so little to make compared to a tank or a full unit. A $40 space marine hero costs $6 from a re-caster.

@leegarner4592

3 жыл бұрын

or you could just kitbash your own.

@lv100Alice

3 жыл бұрын

i mean outside design prices storage space, employ wages, making the molds ,community staff wages and transport i'm sure they make a ton of money on the characters

@PhiNESminecraft

3 жыл бұрын

Actually if you understood how production works, you'd realize that characters sell less that units you can buy multiple of for your army. Therefor when GW is manufacturing them, they have to create less units because there is less demand. Manufacturing less units means their price per unit is much higher to make than units people will buy 3-6 boxes of. It costs them much more to make characters and thus costs us more to buy them. Very basic manufacturing and MSRP principles.

@wyrdhunter

3 жыл бұрын

@@leegarner4592 That's a good idea. I can just order the desired bits from GW...oh, wait... The assumption of "just use your existing leftover bits" assumes that you have already purchased product and have leftover bits. The assumption that someone has bins with 25 years worth of extra parts is pretty much GW propaganda.

@Lomax2186

3 жыл бұрын

Thing is it cost the same to design and make the tooling for 1 character as it does for a unit, and they will sell less of the characters.

Guy get's a warlord titan also Guy: i need more >:O.

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

I bought all this stuff last year... just after I did the "pile of shame" video ;)

@VladimirKharchenko

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis More pile much shame :)

@lv100Alice

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis that makes it worse haha

@Pintroll300

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis That pile is slowly growing into a mountain; someday penny will have to climb it to find you hidden in a cavern near the top finishing off that warlord Titan!

A good and thought provoking video! I was looking for the Sisters of Battle "Sister Tariana Palos" model that was offered as a limited edition in 2020 and came across a recast offering. However, at around £35.00 including postage I decided to buy an original from eBay at £45.00 - more expensive but a safer option. Of course, another option is to pass the out of print stuff to a Forge World type subsidiary to continue manufacturing these items where the molds exist. I'd love to have the plastic (Talisman) dragon and 1st gen Land Raider and would be happy to have these in a plain box - a bit like the GW Direct stuff!!!!!

I would love to see the Heroquest and Advanced Heroquest boxes! Such classics 👌 The little brother of Warhammer who was reeeeally into DnD

I'm just going to say that there's a lot of Brettonia and Tomb Kings players that aren't particularly saddened by GW losing money to recasters.

@bcoyne12345

3 жыл бұрын

Also high elves and the rest of the discontinued whfb lines, sadge

@Arisawa_Heavy_Ind

3 жыл бұрын

Just bought 16 Knights of the realm and 15 Grail Knights 3 weeks ago for 140€. The package should arrive this week 🙌

@alphariusomegon4442

3 жыл бұрын

Let's just remember that they screwed over everybody with age of shitmar. Honestly, I don't feel sad for a faceless Corporation whatsoever and if they want to keep going the route they are going by partnering with Marvel and currently Magic the Gathering after their repeated blunders then honestly I'm going to just ditch the IP in its entirety

@cronykil74

3 жыл бұрын

And when they split the LoTR boxes in half and then still charged the same price.

@qwertzy321

3 жыл бұрын

@@Arisawa_Heavy_IndPLEASE private message me where to get those, my friend is making a bretonnia army and i am making mousillion (bretonnia) themed vampire counts. Thank you in advance kind sir!

This feel like I’m watching a professionally made documentary on warhammer!

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I put... probably way too much time into this, haha

@pineapple5396

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis maybe, but the payoff was amazing! 10 out of 9 would watch again

@TheDeadbone1961

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed! The audio, visual takes, and editing are really top notch. A well-rehearsed progressive script, spoken naturally, was a pleasure to my ear :)

Where did you find the file for the retro space marine parts? That is exactly what I've been looking for for months. Everything I keep finding is Primaris stuff.

Great video! 👍🏻😁 I'd definitely be interested in seeing what's else in the box! Keep up the good work 😁

For me, if it's stuff that they no longer make and adamantly swear they won't cast new ones for you.. then why not. It's GW's own fault for not being savvy enough to realize that people love the old models and want to continue to use them. (especially things like High Elves or Bretonia that no longer exist) Now recasting your own.. I also have no problem with that in certain regards. When it comes to super rare parts that you want multiples of it's really your only choice. My biggest use for it would be in modifying models to fit my idea of what they should look like from my interpretation of the lore or if I write my own story and want to modify the models to make something new. One such case was I wrote a story where orcs were twisted by the power of Chaos and became massive hulks covered with bones sprouting out of their skin, massive sharp teeth, incredible muscles and would be even larger than a troll. To make those I'd have to do a LOT of cutting and stretching and filling in the gaps. Instead of using a regular model, I might want to cast a copy and then start hacking that up and modifying it. Similarly at some point you might get to where you love the shape of your converted model but want to go even further with it but not risk what you've already done, so you might want to cast that and then take your recasts of your converted model (that might only barely resemble the GW model at this point) and then modify them from there too.

@tristanpritchard7253

3 жыл бұрын

Many points well made. I think it is fine for personal army choices and lore interpretation 👍

@jaratt85

3 жыл бұрын

@@tristanpritchard7253 another idea is where I wanted to make Tzeentch Horrors that fit the lore better.. they are supposed to be ever changing not locked to one common shape and I think you could have some real fun with making them look weird. Though if I had them I'd take it to the insanity level and turn them into things that people fear.. like they take on your deepest fear. You may have some that look like spiders, some that look like blood, some that look like Elmo, some that take shapes beyond human reason.. like Peewee Herman.. I definitely like adding some references and stuff into the game and have fun with it on top of just making scary stuff.. Oh and the Elmo thing.. I used to work with a guy that was scared to death of him, said he had a dream that Elmo killed him.. I actually cured him of it because we worked at Walmart and I worked in toys and it was the re-release of Tickle Me Elmo and I kept walking up behind him with them until he stopped being afraid.. was fun while it lasted though :P

Sounds super nice and reasonable, so not for GW

Very interested to see the haul in detail!

I still have my 2004/2005 Store catalog that my local Hobbytown gifted me, after working for them. Even if I can no longer order a piece I want the old school way, it's still proven insanely helpful in IDing old GW stuff. And good to know I'm in that 56%.

I’m starting a Vostroyan army. Thanks to GW, recasts or third party is my only choice.

@CdrChaos

3 жыл бұрын

If GW doesn’t want your money then that’s their problem, not yours.

@dylanhertzog9816

3 жыл бұрын

Im just getting into WH, and due to inability to play/ learn in store.. it only makes sense to me to use recasts or 3rd party

@ExternalDialogue

2 жыл бұрын

Hey there is nothing you cant do with enough patience, creativity and greenstuff.

Green bar of reflection on your glasses had me mesmerised like Hypnotoad!!

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

ALL HAIL HYPNOTOAD

@recording_closet9100

3 жыл бұрын

@@MidwinterMinis HAIL

GW took my Kasrkin models away, so I took my money away and gave it to a recaster for them instead.

May i ask where i can buy these things on you vid at 1:52 ?

14:00 I'm drooling over that Space Crusade Dreadnought! Looks like an ED 209

@luketfer

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's the basic one as well. If you had Operation Dreadnought you got the option to have ones with longer legs and four weapons on them. Was a crazy time, miss those old Chaos Dreadnoughts...

Gw upped prices during a time when most are skint, no chance they'd do the fans a deal

@holdencross5904

3 жыл бұрын

@Patrick Swan we are in the middle of an economic recession and Britain’s currency needs to stabilise after leaving the EU. Obviously is going to take a while but it will stabilise eventually

@Sephvion

3 жыл бұрын

@Patrick Swan You say that, but this is also the company who include VAT taxes, to foreign countries, before currency exchanges.

@holdencross5904

3 жыл бұрын

@Patrick Swan especially if you’re unemployed like me!

@holdencross5904

3 жыл бұрын

@Patrick Swan just stating a fact not saying it is their responsibility. I’m still in Uni so I guess I’m lucky in a way

I just repurchased Hero Quest too. So excited to play with my son!

I'd love to see a retro unboxing of everything you got.

GW: Kids nowadays aren't gonna want a catalogue for our mini- Me, a kid from nowadays: GIMME BOOK! GW: But... We've updated our ways of- Me: G I M M E B O O K ! ! !

@recording_closet9100

3 жыл бұрын

B O O K G O O D

A reminder that GW is currently charging almost the entire price of the Indomitus box for a new box set containing half the sprues of said box, and I'm posting this from America, which already has a spike up from its UK pricetag, more than covering the import price.

@russellspencer3214

3 жыл бұрын

Strange way round for things to be. Usually the UK gets ripped off in comparison to US prices. £200 here $200 there. Sounds fair 😄

@malloc7108

3 жыл бұрын

@@russellspencer3214 probably to do with the import embargoes and manufacturing being done in the UK.

@theophrastusbombastus1359

3 жыл бұрын

That's a shame you have to experience for once what the rest of the world experiences the whole time from US. 😉

@atomicboomerang

2 жыл бұрын

@@theophrastusbombastus1359 To be fair, the US doesn't set import duties for other countries. Countries do that to themselves to "protect" their own businesses (the US does it too).

@highmarshalhelbrecht3933

2 жыл бұрын

@@theophrastusbombastus1359 Warhammer is an expensive hobby in general

Shot in the dark, does anyone have a link to those 3d printed classic bits at around 12:00? I've got a good few of the good old Jes Goodwin metal bodies sitting lonely and armless.

Yes please more retro videos please. Still waiting to see your retro space marines from your second edition box

imagine if they sold 3d printed bits from any model kit

@MidwinterMinis

3 жыл бұрын

A dream come true

@benjackson8731

3 жыл бұрын

Could finally get a Johann. they go so quickly on bits sites that there is clearly a demand

I have bought a lot of Forgeworld recasts. Forgeworld prices are criminal and there models quality is often times worse then recasts.

@ScionoftheDreadwing

3 жыл бұрын

Bought a lasrifle section from forgeworld about half of the rifles were broken and almost all models had moldslip on the armour panels. If this had happend on a recast model that costs me about 35€ i wouldnt mind but where i live a lasrifle section from forgeworld costs 98€.

@praetor2997

3 жыл бұрын

recast forgeworld hierophant often have inbuilt wire supports for the super delicate limbs. Otherwise you buy legit and butcher the model to make sure it won't break on you.

@MichaelAlthauser

3 жыл бұрын

@@ScionoftheDreadwing Did you get in touch with their customer service and have them replace it for you? Because that's what you do when you get broken pieces or massive mold slips on expensive resin models. And yes, FW should happily send you replacements because they want to keep you as a customer.

@ScionoftheDreadwing

3 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelAlthauser I did and I got a replacement but still

@MichaelAlthauser

3 жыл бұрын

@@ScionoftheDreadwing So what's the issue? They fixed the problem for you, sounds like you're all good. I won't argue that FW prices can be high, but I still don't think that "I don't feel like paying the prices that the company that produces the minis for my luxury hobby sets" is an excuse for buying recasts.

I seem to remember in the early 2000's GW did have a section on their website where you could order individual models or 'bitz' listed in the army books (6th edition i think). I remember i once ordered a metal Reiksguard Knight on foot as a sort of general for my troops.

Does anyone know where to find the scans for those second edition arms in the video? I have probably 100 armless second edition space marines that could use a little bit of love to see the table top once again...

0:36, I see those indomitus boxes in the back. You can't fool me mid twin-ter minis 😑😁

Franchising the recasting or digital modelling of oop minis is a fantastic concept I hadn't thought of - "if you can't beat them, buy them"

Also it says a great deal about how much GW has changed in a recent years where a video like this could actually suggest a solution like this and not have it seem ridiculous. I mean just a few years ago games workshop would not even let online shops show pictures of the miniatures that they were selling or even have them listed in an online catalog from retailers that were selling them legally. The large scale Chinese places that were manufacturing "reproductions" were all shut down years ago. Or maybe they just got much more quiet in how they did business? I'm not sure I'm kind of an outsider looking in on all this insanity. I am doing a video on 3D printing in the US. Initially it seemed very interesting prospect but as I continue to do more research it's very clear that this is a very new business and the smaller people involved are not at all professional despite having a very professional veneer. Overall the 3D printing industry even in its infancy is incredibly disappointing. Maybe officially licensed recasting might come to war games sometime soon. But from my experience in researching this latest video and not having the vast majority of the miniatures that I purchased a month after they were supposed to be shipped I am not convinced it's going to come from small scale reproducers. Fascinating topic even for someone who just reads the Warhammer books and owns only a few Warhammer miniatures

Great video! I guess the guys were trying to make the Strike Force bits that went with the first Mark VII's? I wish I had known, I could have given them a ton of those and bits lol.

If 'underground' markets provide a better service than the legit company, that's were people will go. Simple. The price has sky rocketed over the years and GW for some reason are unwilling to take people's money for out of print stuff to be printed so hobbyists will buy them off someone with a 3D printer.

@Invaderzim2004

3 жыл бұрын

Gabe Newel described how to combat piracy perfectly, he likened piracy with accessibility, the more accesible you make your product the less incentive for an actual customer to go get a pirated product.

@tristanpritchard7253

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah totally agree, this will inevitably happen when cheaper options exist. Stop something that people liked and they'll just do it anyway and we a silly enough to think a crime is being committed 👍

@Seelenschmiede

3 жыл бұрын

I purchased my first Land Raider for 35 bucks, now it is at 65. Reason? Production prices, shipment and stuff didn't go up by 85,71%. It is just greed. And still the same gaps, flaws, bends in the model...

@mrmora1673

3 жыл бұрын

I mean, a 3d printer good enough to make ok-ish warhammer minis is only like 200-400 bucks. The downside is you have to find warhammer 3d models online or make them yourself

@kyrisgaming

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrmora1673 warhammer STL files are incrediby easy to find if you know where to look. Trust me. I have basically the entire line of custodes forgeworld models in STL files on a harddrive.

And just like that, Guy solved the recasting problem, all in time for tea!

@kingjulian7045

3 жыл бұрын

It's the English way!

Hi, I have a Tyranid army. I configured it to be a Spoor mine army. (isn't that ever so fun!) A good chunk of a spoor mine army is Mucolid Spores they only come 1 to a box. You must build the alternative fortification option of the dedicated transport Tryannocyte. There point cost I'm guessing is 20-30 pts. I need usually 3-4. The cost to put on the table is $65. That's ridiculous! Recasting seems to be a good idea. They need to wise up and add another arm to their octopus A dedicated bit seller.

Thank's for that topic. It's the best argumentation and ideas I've ever read on the subject .

Funny thing about recasters is: I get BETTER quality resin casts from them than directly from GW or Forgeworld at 1/3 of the cost, and to top it off, pay much less for shipping (GW charges $17 for orders under $130).

@markhohenbrink5230

3 жыл бұрын

I bought a recast and it was missing a few bits and was thin in some places but I could sculpt something up with greenstuff. But that was one kit out of 5 I bought. I get authentic Forgeworld kits and I spent 2 hours per kit trying to fix each kit. The warping on straight pieces is ridiculous.

@aregulargamer9908

3 жыл бұрын

@@markhohenbrink5230 My third-party female necrons from some guy's garage in Ukraine are infinitely better quality than the resin crypteks. One of the ones I got had a staff that looked like a chewed-up popsicle stick. The third-party model? So perfect there wasn't even any flash, let alone having to bend shit back into place. Literally, just assemble and paint.

@neonach3885

3 жыл бұрын

@@aregulargamer9908 May you provide a link to this friendly guy from Ukraine. Cause i need this Necron girl. Please

@grenravenlock

3 жыл бұрын

@@neonach3885 wargameexclusive is probably where they got it from.

@MichaelAlthauser

3 жыл бұрын

Going to say that at least part of this(the lower cost) is because it's one guy casting miniatures in his living room who doesn't have to pay huge overhead, entire departments of artists and designers, the casting team, advertising, etc etc etc. No wonder he can sell you a mini for $5 instead of $45. As for the better quality, most of the FW stuff I've gotten has been fine - yes it takes a bit of work now and then to fill a couple of bubbles or deal with some warped parts. But keep in mind that FW has to cast resin miniatures to fill a worldwide demand. While they may not be able to do a super minute inspection of each and every single part that gets cast, their customer service has always been great. I was recently missing a torso piece from a squad that I ordered, and they refunded me the entire price of the purchase because the kit was out of stock at the time. I honestly can't complain about that. (It's also really not hard to hit the free shipping threshold, let's be honest)

'save'? The company is going through the roof, why do they need 'saving'?

@BullScrapPracEff

3 жыл бұрын

They're gnawing on the rope holding the sword above their necks...

"Reporting on a crime isn't a crime" - Assange is dying in prison for doing just that without even going to trial.

@BrandonHeilBHB

3 жыл бұрын

He reported on the crimes of the "people" that control us, much different

I would love to see the retro buyout !!! I buy my minis mostly second hands but seeing the price of some OOP minis I want I understand people go to recasters for older model (that's why I'm a 56%er) but I agree with you that if GW sold the rights to print old minis at a lesser cost or the STL it would benefit for everyone.