I hear that a lot: the Unearthed Arcana Playtest Material feels like Pathfinder 2E. I'm curious if there are specific examples of mechanics like this that were introduced in the UA?

@lawrl777

6 ай бұрын

probably the most obvious one was arcane/divine/primal spell lists

@nathanielklee

6 ай бұрын

@@lawrl777 That's not Pathfinder 2E, though? Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition had primal, arcane, and divine sources of power.

1:35 yeah...... As long as wizards of the coast keeps the old 5e multi-classing system. They will fail to make it fully modular like pathfinder 2nd edition. As long as they as multi-classing does not change. The threat of stupidly overpowered builds still exist.

I mean, not saying that I agree with it, but it's not that hard to see why someone might be frustrated when WotC D&D takes anything from other games such as Pathfinder. Like it or not, d&d is an institution by this point (just look how any movement the beast makes ripples through ttrpg-land). People like their game (such as pf), and want THEIR game to grow. At this point in time, D&D takes up such a large portion of the potential player base that it "needs" to be kicked down a peg. Any positive improvement hinders that goal, which is made worse when they "steal" elements that one would use as reasons to join their game. Tldr: its not a bad thing other games are made better by learning from others. Its bad that D&D does so.

They actually mostly release broken sub classes.

@archersfriend5900

6 ай бұрын

Great comment!

What you missed Stephen is that they then rolled back major changes every survey. They're too scared of running off the new 5e players who are vocal online. They hired Paizo folks but put them on adventure design from the sound of it, and if any are working on the 2024 rules they have to be getting frustrated having their work thrown out every survey. It's design by public voting and it's not looking good.

Does anyone think that they are saying something new? By the logic of this video 5E was the master stroke (as we know is was as least exposure wise) that really flexed by expanding. Now did the expanding add nuanced splat or crunch... no absolutely not, hence the majority of the criticisms for the last 3/4s of WoTC published D&D content. Also I really can't tell if Stephen is in the full committal world where he has turned into a 5E defender. Has anyone defined what actually works with the new system as far as source books... nope. I'm waiting to see how this goes out or is integrated.

I think people mad about D&D seemingly copying Pathfinder is that since it's the top dog, D&D can more easily push a smaller game out of the yard. Why go to a smaller game when the big brand name one has all the same mechanics? That's just my guess.

@Prberts

5 ай бұрын

Yeah I think people would be happy seeing smaller or on tier to Paizo companies making a game that uses a lot of PF2 blood. If anything thats what the ORC is all about. It irks a bit when the company that prints "worlds greatest roleplaying game" copies the homework of apparently not the "worlds greatest roleplaying game" while simultaneously attempting (and failing) to take their toys to a walled garden and stop anyone else using their mechanics.

Its the same game with some class rebalance... its not a new edition. There is nothing modular (no key words for example) about one dnd so it still doesnt allow new classes easily.

@Lycaon1765

6 ай бұрын

I mean it doesn't need new classes tho, cuz every fantasy/archetype is already covered (other than the occultist who goes around and protects against the supernatural like van Helsing or the like.) so whenever you think about a new class you have to ask "why is this not just a subclass of X?" and most new class concepts are really just subclass concepts.

@lawrl777

6 ай бұрын

@@Lycaon1765 lol the 13 classes of 5e have a ton of holes ranged martial specialist? Proper arcane half-caster like a ranger or paladin? Alchemist who uses consumable items? Detective? Crafter? Merchant? Warlord/leader?

@Lycaon1765

6 ай бұрын

@@lawrl777 1. Fighter (many subclasses), or ranger 2. Artificer (or you could make an argument for warlock, but warlock is technically a full caster) 3. Artificer (alchemist subclass) 4. Rogue (mastermind/inquisitive) 5. Artificer 6. What would a merchant do in a dungeon? But either way you could do that with a bard or artificer. What would a merchant even do in combat? You have to remember this is a combat game, a merchant character is less a class archetype and more a character's fluff, that's why it's a background and not a class. But again, artificer or bard. 7. Fighter (purple dragon knight). Again. You have to ask yourself "is this different enough that it warrants its whole own class or is it really just subclass material?". So far literally all of your examples are only subclass worthy.

@matman2872

6 ай бұрын

@@Lycaon1765ok Paladins shouldn’t exist then. Their niche and general idea could of just been covered by a fighter subclass. While we’re at it, ranger seems kinda moot, you probably could of made that a subclass too. Saying ‘oh this is covered by subclass that barely scratches the surface of you could do this’ is a silly point of view. If you flesh a concept out into its own class you’d find there’s a lot more you can do with some of those concepts, maybe some won’t work out, but I guarantee some of them will

They can very easily mess everything up by trying to make 5e ‘better’ because that means very different things to different people. I also think Level Up Advanced 5e has already made 5e better. New 2024 rules are kinda redundant at this point…

My biggest issue with 5e buy the main 2 books as a player there is nothing else to buy. If you use your own campaigns then adventures and worldbooks are pointless. They need to put out books that add things to classes and have new options. 3rd and 4th were very good at giving you more options to use for your characters not just better ones. I don't like the subclasses in 5e and the optional multiclassing in pathfinder 2e would be great in d and d and let you change all the classes for the better so people don't take 4 different classes to get all the goodies from the first few lvls.

Personally speaking I'd rather DnD got better instead of just becoming pathfinder. PF2e has a lot of stuff about it i dislike and I woudl MUCH prefer a NEW direction instead of ouroborosing with the sister game. DnD should honestly get simplier rarher than more complex tbh.

@archersfriend5900

6 ай бұрын

Best comment!

I think there’s some improvements but they burned that bridge with me last year

I still only play ad&d 2e. 🤷‍♂️

No

100% no.