So many things I'd like to say to Allen. One is how he said that the Progressive Christian movement started around 20 years ago, when it effectively started long before that. When people don't do their research, they make many presuppositions on who has the would be false doctrines and who doesn't. If they'd be more open to having constructive dialogue with others outside their fundamentalist camps, as you've stated in similarly in the past, I think they would very quickly start to realize how accurate your assessments are. This was an excellent presentation. Thank you Randal:)

@IamGrimalkin

Жыл бұрын

He said that because it says so on Bethel UCC's website. The entire video is a critique of Bethel UCC, it just isn't clear here because Randal skipped most of the video.

@jasonegeland1446

Жыл бұрын

@@IamGrimalkin I see. Thanks:)

This guy has obviously done zero study or research on the progressive side. Dr. Rausser could you make a video on some books you think are essential reading for Christians giving their way out of fundamentalism? Or perhaps a video on theological and hermeneutic framework? Thank you!

@calebp6114

Жыл бұрын

His book ‘What’s so confusing about grace?’ tracks his personal journey, and is very beneficial

the fact that he states that some progressives will go to hell is because Allen desires people who oppose him to go to hell. He obviously does not love or pray for his enemies, as he would have an online prayer vigil for those who are sliding if he did. He reminds me of so many who talk about Jesus, and read the bible, yet have no love in their heart. You would think that young Allen would want to be saved from his anger and judgements, but then again, if you bring up that he needs to be saved, he will oppose the very sin that you say he needs to repent of. This is where the speck and log come, and the spiritual blindness that the Pharisees had.

Randal, please consider making a series of videos going through the major points of the book you were writing on same-sex relationships and the church. I really want to hear what you have to say on the topic, not just in one short video, but over the course of a several longer videos.

@Randal_Rauser

Жыл бұрын

I will seriously consider that.

Keep going Randal!!

Great response video!

"I can't sit through a 13 minute video of this individual"..why not?

In my father’s house are many mansions.

This fundamental exclusionism is part of tribal human nature. When I started riding motorcycles I soon discovered that only “real” motorcyclists ride Harleys. And real Harley motorcyclists would never ride a Sportster. Or only real fisherman do fly fishing. It infect every human endeavour or pursuit. It’s this human tendency to look down on others, to find some way of feeling superior to other people, to make yourself feel more special or privileged than others. It’s basically pride which Jesus definitely spoke against.

To be fair, I have met Christians who claim that Yahweh experiences moral progress and that's what accounts for the apparent change in His moral character over the Biblical texts. I think this makes sense theologically on the assumption that there's inherent value in moral progress. So a being who experiences it is greater than a being who is already morally perfect from eternity.

@danielwilcox5135

Жыл бұрын

Intriguing! I must admit the classical description of God in Christian theology doesn't sound good. Not only do the theologians state that God doesn't change in response to us, but that God doesn't even have to be moral because that would mean that he is in process of changing. That God's good isn't even the sense of good that he tells us to do. ETC.

@benc6537

11 ай бұрын

​@@danielwilcox5135or it could be just down to our lack of understanding and false assumptions.

@webz3589

10 ай бұрын

Hmm my thought is God has always been moraly perfect and we catch up with him over time. Now peopel that are too liberal end up over stepping the mark and conservatives run into teh equally poor position of thinking we reached some arbitrery pount of morality then after no further advancements shpuld take place.

@webz3589

10 ай бұрын

God does not chamge but we change as individuals and as a society to fit closer with God.

@kamilgregor

10 ай бұрын

@@webz3589 ah yes, God is the ultimate centrist

Fantastic!

I think it’s very sad that every teacher attacks most other teachers. I do confess that I find myself agreeing with Randal in many of his ideas presented here. I’d also like him and others to sometimes go out of their way to compliment or promote other Christian thinkers such as Parr for the good they do offer. Sadly seems like most will focus only on critique. A sign or great leadership is not just tearing down, but it’s also about building others up and offering solutions/alternative views, etc

Point taken. I get wary too with fundamentalist tendencies in the church. But let me also challenge you to perhaps discuss an essential concern from that side, which is, there is a slippery slope and when you inch your way in that direction then time will come when you will slide down the abyss and there's no climbing back. How do you deal with that concern? I am concerned about that myself. Self-styled 'progressives' do seem to ride current waves of pop culture and can be dismissive of the old fences put up by older generations. But then i have to remember Chesterton's fences. Which ones are to be discarded and which ones to keep? Or or we just to assume that everything must go. Maybe including the bodily resurrection of Christ? How far will this go? Your thoughts Randall?

I was almost going to send you this one, too! LOL

Thank you for another penetrating exposition . I've thought for quite a while now that exclusionary fundamentalism , perhaps ironically , is as great a disincentive for people who otherwise might seek to investigate theistic plausibility , as also is the currently extensive public promotion of the atheist creed .

@francescocarlini7613

Жыл бұрын

Misotheism is the most plausible theology, always was (ask Prometheus), always will be.

Epistemologic humility. That's a great term, I like the idea of progressive sanctification, I never liked people saying they're already 'perfectly sanctified' which is not an intrinsic feature nor function of rightism nor is it of leftism. The problem with believing that one has arrived at perfect virtue in life makes them think their vessel is a perfectly imbued instrument for the Holy God's power, an issuer of His edicts and that their own words are constantly in the bounds of absolute truth.. this is an obviously most destructive persuasion, because not only would one see that they've disagreed with their past persuasions, even after having thought themselves "perfectly sanctified" while in the flawed earth, but they'll also disagree with others who also believe that the Holy God has made them likewise perfectly sanctified, for their nuances and full conviction of being full of themselves will inevitably clash.

Dr Rauser, can non trinitarians be saved?

@Randal_Rauser

Жыл бұрын

1. There's an important difference between non-trinitarians (i.e. those who fail to assent to the doctrine) and anti-trinitarians (i.e. those who reject the doctrine). 2. Jesus seems to have been much more concerned about whether you love your neighbor than whether you assent to trinitarian doctrine. So at the very least, a hopeful inclusivism is certainly warranted pertaining to both groups.

@Kenji17171

Жыл бұрын

​@@Randal_Rauserthank you. I struggle with trinity and bodily resurrection of Jesus but I have no problem with accepting Jesus and new testament's moral messages.

@Randal_Rauser

Жыл бұрын

@@Kenji17171 At the risk of sounding self-serving, I would strongly recommend my book "The Doubters' Creed." I think it will give you a helpful paradigm.

@caitlyn189

Жыл бұрын

​@@Kenji17171 In what way do you think Jesus resurrected, then? Genuinely curious, I don't know any other beliefs besides His bodily resurrection. I know His followers that said they saw His resurrected body believed it to the point of spreading the word like wildfire and being willing to die for it when they weren't before. John and other people that were some of the closest to Jesus said that His resurrected self was there for them to even touch. I trust what they say about it, and idk how the reliability of the rest of the Bible would hold up if I didn't think these parts in the Bible were true. In John 6 Jesus also makes clear when talking about being the bread of life that to get to the Father you have to believe in HIM, not just the things that he says. I have no idea if a bodily resurrection is included in that or not, I'm just sharing some things I recently learned. Do you believe that Jesus is equal to God the Father? Or, if you don't believe in the Trinity, that Jesus is God or someone to believe in, in that way?

@davidgray1060

Жыл бұрын

@@Kenji17171 Randal's book The Doubter's Creed would be perfect for you!

It seems Allen Parr is simply repeating Paul’s teachings. So what is the issue? I figure if a person is nurturing a pet sin he/she won’t agree with Paul and instead choose to ignore it or refuse to listen - finding the words too truthful to hide that pet sin behind, preferring instead to have their ears tickled by worldly acceptance of that sin. I guess progressivism is wanting to rewrite the Bible to approve of sin, is that an accurate assessment?

@francescocarlini7613

Жыл бұрын

Have you even watched the video? One passage FROM PAUL completely destroys your case; We see like in a mirror, darkly... You do not 'rewrite' the Bible, you scrutinize every traditional reading of the Bible because everything about it is dark and obscure.

@kitecommunications7633

Жыл бұрын

@@francescocarlini7613 question is do you love sin or obedience? Obedience proves love.

@francescocarlini7613

Жыл бұрын

@@kitecommunications7633 Do you love Hitler too? Because obedience proves that you love tyrants.

@Sarcasticron

Жыл бұрын

The Bible says that righteous people test it, and their preachers. It also says multiple times that laws must be changed if they're hurting people for no good reason. And it says MANY, MANY times, VERY STRONGLY, that God really hates people who put the law before compassion. I mean, he HATES them. So no, choosing to not follow laws that the Bible doesn't actually ever mention, or mentions once or twice and vaguely, in order to follow laws that it mentions literally hundreds of times, is not "approving of sin." In fact, according to the Bible, the people who followed the law without thinking, instead of having compassion, are the ones who won't be allowed in God's kingdom.

@marcfischer114

Жыл бұрын

Why do we ought to believe that Paul was infallible? Jesus never taught us that and we don't have any good grounds for thinking that 2.Peter was truly written by the apostle Peter. To be sure, the Church Fathers came to think that Paul is infallible. However, the Church-Fathers also taught doctrines you reject as an Evangelical, such as the doctrine that being born-again means getting saved through Baptism. If they were DEAD-WRONG about that, who's to say that they couldn't be wrong about the infallibility of these books?

Randal, you don't have to tell me who you voted for. We already know. 😂

Light/dark binary...seems to me that Jesus did the same. He who is not with me is against me....

@diansc7322

6 ай бұрын

Lk 9:49-50: "John answered, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him because he does not follow with us.” But Jesus said to him, “Do not stop him, for whoever is not against you is for you.”"

Allan parr is definitely not a fundamentalist hahaha.

Your god changes throughout your texts from a bloodthirsty desert totem to a multi-purpose consumer fetish.