Just had someone send me this video. kzread.info/dash/bejne/la6no7xrhbadddo.html wow you can watch only the first 4 minutes. The 0350s fail from only hand preasure... Here’s another one kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZWiKo9SBmrS7dM4.html

@aaronark1909

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives who uses a knife for a hammer? If u are putting force against the edge of the blade u won’t have these issues!!!

@kubitron

5 жыл бұрын

Are you serious?

@fermusle4032

5 жыл бұрын

then you'd be as good as using a slip joint lol

@ambulldog111

5 жыл бұрын

I'm curious on what you ever did with your knives did you send them back to ZT? After watching your video I tried the same thing with my zero tolerance's.. 7 out of 8 of them had lock failure. The only one that did not is the 804cf. I ended up taking my nights apart and pushing the lock bar over some and not only did the lock cease to fail they now actually lock up super tight and secure. I'm still very curious on what you do with yours thanks I appreciate the videos

@abc456f

5 жыл бұрын

@@ambulldog111 My 0804cf fails, as well as five others. Waiting to hear back from zt. If they don't properly address the problem, I'll go ahead and move the lockbars over.

Very well explained and reasoned, and very much looking forward to the response. It indicates a very common rule in life - the louder something (or someone) claims to be tough, the less likely that is to be true.

@convex7456

6 жыл бұрын

Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors and they stumbled on the steel tests 2 or 3 times

@jn8601

6 жыл бұрын

Growing up I was always told don't worry about the guy screaming worry about the one wispering!

@Neeverseen

5 жыл бұрын

Unless it's Cold Steel lol

@Jesusiskingamen7

5 жыл бұрын

Zt is tough never seen this with any zt's

@neroknives1828

5 жыл бұрын

Palmer cold steel has a video showing the same thing from years back.

I own 3 ZTs (301, 460, and 770). Just finished doing this test on them and thankfully had no issues at all. Even hit the spine harder than in the video.

@JoskiiWoskii

3 жыл бұрын

Just tested my 0450 and no issues. Definitely hit harder than the video lol.

@MatthewC137

2 жыл бұрын

@@JoskiiWoskii same here, also a 0450 and no issues or play whatsoever.

I was concerned about this issue as well but bought a 0350 as it was a knife I always wanted. Mine has almost perfect lock up and will not budge even after spine whacking much harder than you were doing with zero issues. My 0308 is also rock solid and has non of these failure issues.

It's good and healthy for the industry that people can raise where there is room for improvement. My ZT doesnt have either of these problems, though I'm not going to repeatedly batter it to find out, then send it back to ZT to undo what I may have contributed towards. Can't help but wonder though, what "hard use beyond cutting" have you planned for what is, at the end of the day, just a beautiful feel-good folding pocket knife? I have best experiences using the right tool for the job; I take out a robust fixed blade knife for the heavier stuff, then to an axe for chopping. Admittedly, an axe isn't urban EDC where I come from!

Functionality and performance should ALWAYS come before Aesthetics.

I guess I never really use the spine of my knives like a hammer... I tend to use hammers for hammering and knives for cutting. This just isn't a problem even for a hard use knife. This is like using your knife as a screwdriver and complaining that the tip of the blade is messed up

@sniper161718

4 жыл бұрын

I hear you man. Just today I tried cutting rope with my hammer and it sucked. Threw the hammer out

@jadenblackerby3325

4 жыл бұрын

Lol

@FranklinAJ

4 жыл бұрын

Agree.

@sneakypeaky6000

4 жыл бұрын

Not to mention there's no pressure against the frame when he holds it the way he does.... When you hold a knife the correct way your hands going to be holding the frame lock which would probably be even less likely to break loose.

@oinnsheathen5684

4 жыл бұрын

Sneaky Peaky he’s simply a dumb fuck

So after watching this video I went and did the same thing to my Zero Tolerance knives and most of them failed. After taking a knife apart and pushing the lock bar over some the issue has ceased. Not only are the locks no longer failing they are actually locking up super tight and secure.

@callofduty60

5 жыл бұрын

This shouldn't have to be done on knives that cost so much... I don't own any ZT's (anymore) and will not be buying any in the future... Way too many alternatives for a hard use knife out there...

@jpbernie72

5 жыл бұрын

callofduty60 I agree but I’m glad to know the info from ambulldog111.

@Skinnymoose

4 жыл бұрын

@@callofduty60 none of these titanium frame locks are hard use.

@TheBigToe69

4 жыл бұрын

Skinny Moose Bullshit. The Sebenza is an excellent hard use knife.

@evaneason6906

3 жыл бұрын

My only request is please don't say "OK" 100 times in your videos

I appreciated this video, it made me check my four ZTs; 0450, 0900, 0801 and 0456. Three have a lock-up at around 50%, the fourth is at around 35%. I'm happy to report that none have lock-rock, and I was not able to get them to close when putting pressure on the spines.

I was so nervous the whole time that you were gonna get hurt but you made a lot of great points. I am officially off the fence about getting a zt. Thank you

There is actually a fourth problem as well: the lock face on the blade tang is either straight or a very large radius, and is ground at a very steep angle, which contributes to more lock slip. That quality, in conjunction with the hardened steel insert, makes this type of failure a fact of life.

@Lonewolfmike

4 жыл бұрын

I have some bad news. I have knives that have steel bar lock inserts that have lock stick.

Thanks for sharing. Made me a little nervous, but I tested my 2020 ZT0450 and it locks up solid, no blade play and I smacked it against the tape pretty hard with no issues

Thanks, dude. They must’ve fixed the issue because my 801ti has no lock play and it passes the spine test.

I love the argument on how it would be pointless for you to want knives YOU spent money on to be bad. This is a really interesting video. I’m glad Cedric and Ada outdoors posted this video.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Joseph A haha Yea i don’t know why people would think I would want my knives to have issues, but those people are out there. And yea Cedric has been helping me get more subscribers. Really cool for him to do that.

@jmuk3571

5 жыл бұрын

Joseph A. And Apostle P

@tikkidaddy

5 жыл бұрын

Right...table full of $200 knives...this man surely spent all that money just to...buy failure???

@reubennichols644

Жыл бұрын

- People in general should be thanking you . N O T Attacking You ! ! ! Zero Tolerance should be thanking you as well for bringing this matter to their attention . A simple milling adjustment of point 2 ▪︎ 5 or . 5 of one flippin ' itsy - - bitsy - wittle millimeter . . . then . . . done . Problem solved . If ' ya lose your loyal customers (( Mothers - Fathers - daughters - sons - friends - co - workers - uncles - aunts - brother - - A D I N F I N I T U M . . . . . . Then You Are Dead -- End Of Story -- End Of The Final Chapter -- Book ~ T H E E N D . Z T . . . Get your R & D Department to look into the matter I M M E D I A T E L Y . All Knives Should Be Reliable -- P E R I O D . -

I just tried this on all of my ZT knives and none of them failed or had lock rock.

@DaddyBrodes

2 жыл бұрын

Same, but I only have two ZT. The 0393 and 0609.

First of your vids I've watched and love your honesty and sensible attitude.

Just tried this test on both of my EDC ZTs (0450CF & 0095BW) and could not replicate the failure. The 0095 has about 75% contact for the lock bar insert to blade and the 0450 has about 30% contact. In both cases, there is zero blade wiggle in any direction. I've had them for years. As far as hard use goes, I subscribe to the idea of using tools for their intended purpose and use knives for cutting, screw drivers for driving fasteners, pry bars for prying, etc... My EDC accommodates this philosophy with additional tools for additional tasks. I would say that if you're going to use a single tool for any task, it should be a multitool that's equipped according to the tasks you're likely to encounter. If you're going to use a knife for self defense, you should have one that is dedicated for that purpose and is kept razor sharp. That's why I carry two. One for defense and one for mundane cutting tasks. I'm not saying everyone should do this. But if you're going to treat your knives like multitools, you can expect them to fail at some point.

You have an interesting observation. There does seem to be differences between brands with lock failing. Another reason to favor buying one brand over another.... However, folding knives normally should not be abused that way. The pivot is relatively small on folders so vulnerability should be obvious when subjected to abuse (even though Spyderco is better).... Fixed blades are the knives to use if you are hitting the spine like that.

So did you send them to ZT and what came of it? Searched on your channel but I can't find the follow up vid.

Thanks for the info, I was drooling over your collection. I love my Spydercos and just when I think I might be ready for a ZT I see something like this and I'm like "nah, I'm good." Nice video.

That was both interesting and informative mate really enjoyed.look forward to there return from ZT.thanks for sharing your findings.this is community working for each other.atb paddy👍☺🍀

You are correct, Sir. I just tested my ZT 0350 (liner lock) vs Spyderco Paramilitary 2 (compression lock) vs Benchmade Stryker (liner lock) vs Benchmade Bedlam (axis lock). My ZT was the ONLY one to fail this test. Didn't take too much pressure on the spine to cause the failure. Needless to say, I will no longer be carrying the ZT as a defensive option. Thank you for bringing this information to the interwebs. All the best.

@adonisdelacampa7057

Жыл бұрын

Any Benchmade issues yet

I think what people mean by hard use is the blade is thick and the knife is heavy but they never even heavily used a ZT.

I did the same test with all my ZT knives especially the 0630 Emerson model. I had no issues that you were able to produce. I will agree with you on the Spyderco as I carry the PM2 as well, they lock up solid.

Great video.Thanks for pointing this out.Which knife would you suggest that has the best lock?

I spine whacked my 0566 way harder a few times and the lock did not fail.

@randykurtz1994

4 жыл бұрын

Wejustmight die I just tried my 0566 elmax and didn’t fail

@JayM1989

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah the 566 isn't going to fail. My 566 has insanely strong lock up and its actually almost impossible to even close one handed. This issue is going to vary model by model and knife by knife

@badger7950

4 жыл бұрын

As much as i didnt want it to, my 0566 lock does fail. Thats the only one of my ZT's that does it.

If you think knives are just meant to slice and that testing them by putting pressure on the spine is unfair, why bother with buying locking knives are all? Spine whack tests are meaningless on slipjoints and friction folders, but in my opinion they're totally valid on any knife that has a mechanism designed to lock the blade open even when force is applied to the spine.

@anthonyberardi9941

5 жыл бұрын

Alexandre Aubrey actually in real life (with the knife open) your index finger will be right under the flipper, making it impossible to close.

@CytoplasmicGoo

5 жыл бұрын

Still, it’s kind of disconcerting for a knife marketed as overbuilt and tough for its locks to fail by wacking it on a roll of painter’s tape. I had a knife lock fail on me while cutting a zip tied bundle. In a pinch grip, I slid the knife under the zip tie blade up, pulled up using the tip as a fulcrum and lock failed, knife shut half way. I didn’t cut myself but it opened my eyes to lock failure. Now this was a $50 modus, but should it happen to $200 plus ZTs “built like a tank”?

@robertlefeaux

5 жыл бұрын

Name one realistic situation where you'd be using your knife and something would be constantly whacking on the spine.

I totally agree. You have a really cool channel. I appreciated your talking points. 👍

Hey man just found your channel and I'm excited I did great content! Looks like you don't really do budget knives but what you do cover you do well.

In all my years of using a knife, I never even remotely did a spine whack until I started watching KZread videos on knives.

Why do all my knives have lock rock? Proceeds to spine whack all his knives 🤦🏻‍♂️

@chrisrock4428

4 жыл бұрын

Because he probably tampered with them. I've never had a problem with one. Own more than this.

@zoaline

4 жыл бұрын

Chris Rock he did not tamper with them at all and he has no reason to.

@Yokatosh

4 жыл бұрын

@@chrisrock4428 0:25

@chrisrock4428

4 жыл бұрын

@PESTIL3NCE yes your with me 24/7 and know what I use and don't. 🤣🤣 try again. Many videos??

@chrisrock4428

4 жыл бұрын

I counted 9. Lmao. Many. Hundreds saying how great they are.

stumble into this video. I only got one ZT (0562cf). Hitted hard against palm and then wood. I don't get whats wrong with your knives either. In any case, you've got a great collection there, will start following you and see whats ZT have to say. Don't hurt your knives! ; )

Fantastic, just spent a small fortune on my first zt and the very first video I see in my recommendations is this, I spent all afternoon researching zt knives on KZread and all I seen was nothing but love. Unbelievable.

just tested all my 4 zts none of the locks failed and there were no lock rock. dont know what's happening with yours mate

@anthonyberardi9941

5 жыл бұрын

Simple, he set out to hammer on the knife until it failed. He was not using it in the correct manner. Any tool can be destroyed with some effort. That’s like holding down the gas pedal in a car and leaving it in 1st gear until the engine blows up. Does that mean it’s not a good car? No, it just means somebody doesn’t know what they’re doing or how to use tools properly and how they were intended to be used. It’s generally smart to use the “sharp side” of the knife when cutting. But then again the original poster could be 5 years old and not know how to use a knife the correct way.

@h4rry4x44

3 ай бұрын

@@anthonyberardi9941 I'm surprised he isn't throwing them at a brick wall and complaining that they wont go into it. LOL

I have 6 zt‘s with no lock rock on any of them planning on ordering another one

Thanks, you preformed the most important test for safety and security, both of which it failed. So I very much appreciate the video, it saved me from buying a DANGEROUS AND INEFFECTIVE FOLDER, FOR MY secondary? You might have saved my life!!!!

As an aside.... Spyderco linerlocks tend to use the Terzuola radiused lockface where the tangent of the radius doesn't actually happen at the far end, but rather, a tiny bit toward the center. This makes it less likely to fail (but not impossible -- I had a well-used Military fail with light spine pressure.) The ZT lockfaces are generally linear and steep.

This is exactly why I only have one zt. It’s an 0550, and that was enough for me. On the other hand I have 4 pm2 ‘s.

A frame lock is designed to be stronger when gripped by the hand it applies more pressure on the lock bar

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

John Scrivani another person said the same thing. This was my response. Kyle Manko 100%. But that doesn’t mean they should fail as easily as my zt knives. Notice how none of my spyderco knives failed the same test all of my zt knives did. My Hinderer, crk, microtech, strider, spyderco etc. all easily passed the test. Also when you’re using a knife for harder tasks, your hands aren’t always on the lock bar, so the lock needs to be strong on its own.

Good vid. This is why i prefer liner locks and back locks. The compression and bsll bearing locks are great as well. I have owned soooo many zt knives and always sell them off. Yet i keep my kershaws. Same company yet few or no framelocks on the kershaws.

Thank you. Good info. Got me to test my favorite EDC, the ZT 0452. Happily it didn't fail. Glad it is the only ZT I own. Though I plan to take the plunge on a 0462. If I had a lot of ZT's which performed according to your video, I would not be a happy camper.

Yeah this is unfortunate but luckily my ZTs are for cutting and not for prying or wacking things.

@mbhaus6349

3 жыл бұрын

Why dont buy a slip joint?

@phillipnunya6793

3 жыл бұрын

Spyderco knives are for cutting too, and they probably won't close on your hand if something bumps your knife the wrong way. Nice little added bonus for the same or less money.

@northernninety7

3 жыл бұрын

@@phillipnunya6793 Guarantee it wont close on your hand in your daily life. Let me know when it happens to you. Yeah Spyderco is great but some people like nicer knives.

@phillipnunya6793

3 жыл бұрын

@@northernninety7 You won't be crashing your car every day either. That's not the point. You can get knives from other companies that use similar materials, have similar build quality, sell for similar prices (or less), and have functional locks. If you use knives for more than cutting string and opening letters, that matters.

@northernninety7

3 жыл бұрын

@@phillipnunya6793 Then more power to you for saving money on a cheaper knife while preventing your fingers being cut off by a ZT. Sounds like the possibility of one closing on your fingers is a risk for you. Good choice by you to eliminate your risk.

Also allot of my zt have lighter lock bar tension. That could be a factor as well. Please be respectful in the comments. Thanks

@jsct6111

6 жыл бұрын

The question now arises: If you ask your local machinist to make stop pins with the bigger diameter so the vertical play will be removed - will it allow to close deep enough into the frame ? Probably Yes, perhaps the detent ball might not reach fully deep into the detent hole and some models may fully lose the detent, some will have it less strong..

@richsalemme6590

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives In what example in the real world would the knife be used in this manner? Serious question. I am new to the knife world and wondering what application a knife would be used in this way.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Richard Salemme the point was just to show the zt has issues with there lock. And that they truly aren’t over built. If you want to make a knife that losses cutting performance, to me over built to Handel harder tasks. The lock should be able to stand up to it. Prying, snap cuts, whittling wood, pulling out of a material quickly if your blade binds up. If you’re just cutting paper, and popping a string on your shirt. You’ll never have to worry about it.

@richsalemme6590

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives that didn't answer the question I asked. I am wondering under what type of use the knife would be subjected to the impact to the spine that you demonstrated. In the uses you have already mentioned isn't pressure applied the lock bar to prevent it from disengaging?

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Richard Salemme Pressure doesn’t need to just be necessarily apply to the spine, to make a knife with a bad lock fail. In the second part of what I said above, a snap cut into a material, you generally pull out of that material quickly. When pulling out quickly the lock can fail. Also if you’re digging into something and have a lateral force applied to the pivot, and or blade, those kinds of forces are the same basic kinds of forces as pressure to the spine.

I just tried on my ZT0562 and doesn't fail at all with strong striking, BUT I use carbidizer on my frame lock surface and that might be improve the strength.

I like big back locks and I can not lie. Big Triad back locks are my favorite if I can not have a fixed blade. I am going to get the tree frog or tad pole knives that have one or two blade stop pins keeping them from shutting on you fingers. I think they are from BHK or is it LT Wright or both? I made a pin to put in the little hole on the handle that would stop the blade from closing if the Triad lock were to ever fail on my 4 Max from Cold Steel.

Lock failure with the spine wack can be fixed by tightening the pivot.

Just tried this on my brand new ZT 0452 CF and not one single failure! Maybe a pre 2018 issue???

@neroknives1828

5 жыл бұрын

Leo Armstrong idk. It’s been a issue for years apparently. I think it just comes down to luck

as Chris reeve said the lock up/angle is one of the most important things on a folding knife, and don't think there's any lock-rock on his knifes, vary interesting review I enjoyed watching.

Just got a ZT 0909 yesterday. Saw your video and got totally freaked out. Took the 0909 outside and hit it on a piece of wood 10 times. Absolutely no lock fail. The took my 0562 and 0452 out and tried them as well. No lock fails. I don’t have that lock rock on any of the knives though. Send those back for warranty service. Edit: hit the 0909 on the ground and I still can’t make this happen.

Hey that wasn't very nice! you made my ZT's cry 😐 and my Spyderco & Chris Reeves giggle 🤔

Because everyone holds a knife with two fingers insuring they aren't putting pressure on the lock bar while whacking the spine... in daily use. Hold it like you would actually hold it and that would never happen.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

limixz28 like this? kzread.info/dash/bejne/p2WgyqWHhLCWoso.html

@ChuckBradfordPhotography

4 жыл бұрын

So then it would close on your fingers?

@caraddict8692

4 жыл бұрын

limixz28 “would never happen” wow sounds like you are so sure of yourself. Then again you’re wrong,

@callofduty60

4 жыл бұрын

Until the blade closes down on your fingers. If you spend this much on a knife this SHOULD NOT HAPPEN - period.

Thank you for this test!

Appreciate your observations, just subscribed, I collect, my collection is similar to yours, one day a friend will inheir what I own, I try to explain, that everything or anything may have limitations, as tools, a good understanding of what's in your hand very important. keep up the good work.

Just tested my ZT0350 and it held strong

@bobhunter5815

5 жыл бұрын

My 0350 holds strong too, all 4 of them

@bobhunter5815

5 жыл бұрын

I notices he only tests frame lock ZTs, I have 4x zt0350, line lockers and none faile. Maybe it's just a frame lock. Also I can't think of any situation where I'd bash the spine of my blade on anything

@robertlefeaux

5 жыл бұрын

@@bobhunter5815 Neither can most people, but for some reason a lot of idiots consider it a fair and accurate test.

@bobhunter5815

5 жыл бұрын

@@robertlefeaux mate I use the day to day testing method. If it holds up doing what I need it to do from day to day it passes. After seeing this I dug out and tested every knife I have from the ZTs to the MTechs and not a single liner lock failed, not even the cheap unbranded K-Mart (Australias wall mart) knives showed any sign of failing. I'm thinking he's done something to that knife to make it fair just for the video.

@robertlefeaux

5 жыл бұрын

@@bobhunter5815 Could be, but still doesnt change the fact that the spine whack "test" is not an accurate test for a locks strength.

You make great videos, this is a super underrated channel. Awesome vid, it’s clear you know your stuff.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Riley Bracelin thanks allot.

Thanks I was in the process of purchasing one today and now I'm not going to waste $150. :-)

The problem that experience with my ZT's are that if you grip it really tight I can not dis engage the lock and have to pry it open

obviously something is up with your knifes. I have 8 ZT's. after watching your video I tested mine. None of mine have this issue. when I try to make them fail the lockup gets tighter. Hopefully they fix yours.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

111111111Tiger good to hear. That give me a little more faith they’ll be able to fix them.

@samuelleahy4780

4 жыл бұрын

neroknives my 2 0350’s stayed open fine. I whacked the shit out of them on a piece of wood too. I’m curious why yours aren’t staying open, you’d think ZT wouldn’t have these problems with a slogan like “proudly overbuilt in the USA.”

They all just need to be taken apart and the lock bar slightly bent in more. This would give a slightly later lockup and fill in the gap near the stop pin so that the lock-rock goes away. People get all crazy when I talk about bending stuff, but otherwise, this stuff happens. Not ridiculous bending. Just a hair. ZT prides themselves on that smooth, droppy action, but a big component of that is having very little lockbar pressure, and I think it's a mistake. I think the moral of the story is that a person shouldn't have to go bending stuff at a couple of hundred bucks a piece. I've never been a ZT guy. Never really anti-ZT either. I do find it funny though that a tiny Delica is apparently more "built like a tank" than those tanks. I love this channel, dude.

@ChuckBeefOG

6 жыл бұрын

I never understood why ZT opted for about a 10% lockup. I get it will eventually wear, but it might take 10,000 opens to get to a 50% lockup.

@zacpdx

6 жыл бұрын

Why would one need to take apart a +-200$ knife to adjust it, when the companies literal mantra is "built like ..." It's like saying one would need to "adjust" a Jeep to 4x4...

@daveglarner2138

6 жыл бұрын

@@zacpdx Absolutely with ya on that. I'd write more, but I'm in the middle of adjusting the jeep I paid double what I should've for, to 4x4. This thing didn't even come with the 4x4 tool!

@BradGryphonn

6 жыл бұрын

"He bought a Jeep". Poor bugger.

@dougallen6978

5 жыл бұрын

I think it's a little unfair to compare it to a lockback like the Delica. If you want to do spine whack tests you should keep the comparison to similar(in their lock up method) knives.

Dude that was a good video and great test. I did it on a bunch of my knives and 2 out of 3 para 3’s failed on me pretty easily one of them is a brand new maxamet version which I’m trying to return now so thanks.

I've seen quite a few different brands have this problem if you turn them upside down. I also think it depends how well the knife locks up on a frame lock.

Can you also do a 'roll-of-tape' comparison vid to see how different makes (Duct Tape, Sellotape etc) hold up against repeated whacking? Stickyness, end-finding and deformity are real issues for us adhesive tape collectors. Perhaps a review of the now famous Gorilla-Tape (which I find hard to unravel with speed)....?

I only have a zt 0462, and it has zero lock rock and wont close when spine whacked. Im not sure if lock rock only comes from factory. All of those spine wack tests could be wearing the material and causing some lock rock. ZTs manual (the one that came with my knife) also says "any use other than cutting (such as prying or twisting) is considered misuse and abuse" in the next paragraph it also says "ZT knives are not intended for throwing or stabbing; they are designed for cutting purposes only". Of the manufacture says its only for cutting, its probably for cutting. The beefyness of the knives are probably more stylistic, so that they last, and so that they can endure hard cutting.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Chase so the built like a tank is a Lie? and they all had lock rock before the test. And the first lock test was on the palm of my hand. If my hand can deform a steel insert, that would be amazing. You can see the first test I did on my instagram. The reason I tried that first test, was because I tried cutting a thicker zip tie and my zt lock failed and folded, so I checked all them. They all failed. Prior to that, none of them ever had any type of spine whacking. It’s on zt not me. And if you watch my zt comparison video, you’ll see that the new zt had lock rock right not of the box.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Chase ps I also have brass knuckles that say they’re only paperweights, and firework that say they’re only a novelty item. Companies say these thing to protect themselves. But with a little common sense we should be able to see what they can really be used for 😉

@topfueljunkie100

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives Can you explain what exactly you were doing when cutting the zip tie that caused the lock to fail? Like were you simply applying pressure to the edge side (as opposed to the spine side) and it even failed there?! Because regardless of what one thinks of spine whacks tests and their relevance to real world usage, if you managed to get the knife to fail just simply cutting a zip tie and applying pressure to the CUTTING EDGE and it failed even this.... Good grief! That's a major problem! These vids are great and I only recently found your channel. I'll be watching lots more AFTER I go check out my ZT knives now! Haha

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

topfueljunkie100 thanks I’m glad you like the videos. Just posted a new one. But it was a thicker zip tie, So I slid the knife under it, then I twisted the knife so the cutting edge out be under the sip tie (I do this all the time) and when I was twisting to position the cutting edge to the zip tie the knife failed. I ever had that happen before, so I did a spine wack to my hand and the lock failed again. So then I checked the rest of my zt knives. And they Pretty much all failed

It might be the style of the lock because my spydiechef will fail under hand pressure

I am a professional hitman and I was just contacted by a high ranking ZT executive to end these videos. Luckily for Nero I'm more of a SPYDERCO guy. As such I will not be accepting the contract. Thanks for the video Nero keep it up brother!

When the knife is in an actual "hard use" situation, your hand is going to be putting pressure on the lockbar. I'm sorry but there is no real situation where the blade will have pressure put on it like that. Especially without pressure on the lock bar from your grip on the knife. Every time you hit the spine of your blade while its locked you slightly dent the lock interface and possibly bend the lockbar thus why all your ZT knives have lock-rock. To compare the delica's lock back mechanism being better than the frame lock of the 801 or 350 is a vague comparison. You're being unfair to the Zero Tolerance knives by not having a proper grip for that type of use/pressure on the blade (you should never hit the spine of your folding knife like that). I guarantee if you grip that knife just like you were about to stab something hard, the pressure from your fingers/hand on the lock bar will not allow the knife to shut on its own. That's how a lock bar is better than a lock back. Put a little pressure on the lock bar(towards over-locking the knife) then see if the tension breaks as easily.

@heavyhands2293

5 жыл бұрын

Zt just sucks.

@samms.712

5 жыл бұрын

@@heavyhands2293 No it doesn't, give me a good reason why thats factual

@heavyhands2293

5 жыл бұрын

I just did the same thing to 6 of my zt knives and my brother and cousin did it to there zt knives and all of these fucking knives did this same exact thing.. you like the name and your a fan boy. The steel is good but all knife company's can get good steel. It's personal experience with zt knives.. I think they suck but they are pretty.

@abc456f

5 жыл бұрын

@@samms.712 ZT was my favorite brand. I didn't want to believe this could happen. But when I tested my nine zt's, which had never been used, six failed using way less force than shown here. ZT....all show and no go.

@ceejay8775

5 жыл бұрын

Think of how many cold steels you could buy for one zt I’d rather have a spyderco 9/10

I’m open minded, so I tried this with the following ZT knives: two 0562CF’s, two 0452CF’s, and one 0450CF. I whacked them against a workbench top, and hit one hard enough to send it flying. None showed any sign of wanting to close. Yours did, so I dunno....

@robertjohnson9756

5 жыл бұрын

My 350 and 609 didnt do this either so not sure why some people do and sone dont

@charliemartin4392

4 жыл бұрын

Same with my 350. I think we need a lack of booty

Excelent video. Stay sharp.

Love the vid, pretty cool. It just seems like all of our grandfathers used knives with no locks, & that worked out ok...mostly I assume lol. But any knife can fail. Right tool for the right job. Btw, I'm an axis lock kinda guy

Watch KZread’s vinninull’s destruction test on a zt 0550. I have a zt0562 and never had an issue with it. The frame lock will not fail if your hand is firmly placed on the handle. Believe me.

@Skinnymoose

4 жыл бұрын

Bullshit

This reminds me of the time that Cold steel did that bullshit ass video "Chris Reeve Sebenza 21 vs. Cold Steel Code 4". Where Cold Steel spin whacked the spine of the Sebenza 21 and when it failed said that the IRL(Reeve Integral lock) was too weak and flimsy. In the real world no one spine whacks their knives!!!

Thanks for the head's up. Would rather find out here than it there. You were holding the handles safely when they failed, what if they fail while holding them normally? Bye bye fingers?

I did this test and checked all the lock bars on my Chinese Kershaw's and they all passed with flying colors

None of my ZT's will fail like that. 🤔 I prefer Spyderco mostly though.

Im sorry but I still find this a null point. I also agree with whomever said it's a knife and knives are made for cutting. If you need to hammer something, use a hammer. If you gotta pry something, get a pry bar. He'll if you think you wanna baton wood, use an actual fixed blade survival knife wacking the back of your knife to get it fi fail proves nothing except, a knife iit's a horrible hammer

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Rooster Diggs not trying to be an asshole. But if I take a Spyderco Delica, and a benchmade adamas. Every single person I show them to that not apart of the knife community will say the adamas is built for more then just cutting. And they would have no problem prying or doing whatever they need to do with it. But then when you ask some people in the knife community they say both are made for the same thing. Even tho one is about 3 oz with a thin stick and the other is 9oz with a thick stock. Sorry they are clearly not made for the same thing. And It’s just mind blowing to me With how much people in the knife community baby knives.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Rooster Diggs it’s like the people that aren’t in the knife community know more about knives then people in the knife community ( in this example) Clearly the bigger heavier thicker knife, that sacrifices cutting performance to do other tasks better such as prying and chopping. Isn’t just meant for cutting. I just can’t Wrap my mind around how people don’t see that.

@MrAliaspostmortem

5 жыл бұрын

@@neroknives1828 ... You fail to see that because you miss the reason, it's purely fashion! Almost every damned folder today has too thick stock. Have nothing to do with actual use as you seem to think. It's all about selling a product.

@neroknives1828

5 жыл бұрын

MrAliaspostmortem well that’s not true. Knives with thick stock serve a purpose just like ones with thin stock. They just have different tasks in mind. Granted allot of knives today are just make to look cool, and free drop. But I really don’t buy them n

After I put a detent ball ramp on my 0452 and adjusted the lock bar tension , I tested the lock up by holding the knife and wrapping it and my hand with a receiving blanket (safety third) and then spine whacking it against a micro fiber cloth on the work bench a half dozen times , and it didn't fail once , yet , when I tried it the way you showed , it failed on the third whack , interesting .

Seeing that microtech select fire reminded me of how pissed i was for missing out on the whale shark lol

Wacking a spine on a hard surface is a ridiculous test, I can’t think of a single real-life scenario where such force will ever be applied to the lock, because when you’re cutting, you don’t cut with the back of the knife, you cut with the edge.

@AGMartinez

5 жыл бұрын

Pulling out, falling down, dropping and its ready, not broken

Ive had my Delica fail. Thing just blew up while whittling.

The obviously, the exterior frame lock feature, is a design failure. Many people try to avoid pressing hard or even on the handle and they noted it disengages the exterior frame lock. It could be even weaker if they use carbon fiber, titanium or aluminum. The Ken Onion 303 or 308 has that exterior frame lock feature. If you look at the ZT 350 by Ken Onion? Onion has an interior lock. I suspect Onion knows this a defect. The frame lock feature is an elegant feature and justifies another $100 bucks in price but is not safe. My cheap Ken Onion desiged, Kershaw's will not do this. They have interior frame locks. If you want a superior lock up? I suggest buying cheap knives like Smith & Wesson, Schrade, Kershaw, CRKT, Cold Steel, as you note Spyderco knives or any other interior frame lock knife.

The 0350 is a beast and made for very hard use.

Tell that to my brother that went through 3 tours with an 0350. It got hard use it looks like garbage now (works fine.) My brother is a green beret. I bought him that knife. He bought himself a knew tiger strip 0350 and contracted with that knife for a few year's.

@cogitaretoo

3 жыл бұрын

Your brother is not a Green Beret.

@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744

3 жыл бұрын

@@cogitaretoo Yeah? I would love to have you come out of cyberspace and tell him that. You wouldn't have the b@ll$ to tell my 78 yr old father he wasn't a marine either ya spineless troll.

@sherylhamilton3479

3 жыл бұрын

@@cogitaretoo troll

@sherylhamilton3479

3 жыл бұрын

@@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744 I bought one for my husband. He's a welder so only American steel for him.

@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744

3 жыл бұрын

@@sherylhamilton3479 I live in NY. So crucible steel is a plus and yes my father and brother also only carry USA made knives.

Sorry to say but yes you have caused the lock rock, albeit unintentionally. Almost all liner and frame locking knives will suffer deformation of the lock interface and or tang during repeated spine whacking. The Spyderco has to, the damage isn't apparent as the spring tension of the liner happens to be higher helping the liner to walk across the tang to make contact. Want proof? Just hit it harder. Increase the tension on your damaged ZTs by bending the lock bars over a hair, the lock rock will disappear and they'll be less likely to slip, they may even develop some stick, until you start whacking them again. Folders aren't designed to be treated that way, it's nothing to do with branding, I guarantee you the Sebbie will go just as easy as the ZTs. All locks will fail under the right abuse, the tri-ad is the toughest by a mile (but can still fail, I've broken one) and generally the liner is the weakest closely followed by the frame lock. Lots of energy focusing on a tiny amount of steel is always going to end badly. The trick is to use the tool you have within it's design limits. There is no sensible real world scenario in which a folding knife will ever experience those sort of forces on the spine. If you really need that sort of capability then box up your knives and send them to me, I'll send you a hammer.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Thomas Denton all of them had lock rock out of the box. So no I had no part in the lock rock. If you followed me longer you’d know that. So that isn’t true. My spyderco’s microtech’s hinderers. Don’t have lock rock that I tested in previous attempts of making this video. The reason I checked in the first place was because I was using my Zt0801, to Pop a zip tie, and the knife failed, so I started testing the zt knives, and they all failed.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Thomas Denton this is really long so I’ll answer it in parts. No my sabenza didn’t fail when I tried it, and didn’t have lock rock out of the box, or after I tested it.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Thomas Denton and if a folder is built to take pressure on the spine, and it says built like a tank, it should be stronger then my delica at a 1/4 the price, because zt sacrifices cutting performance in the name of being hard use.

@thomasdenton132

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives Sorry I'll keep this one shorter. No assumptions here, it's clear to see. You can take a horse to water, you can't make it drink. I'm out.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Thomas Denton do you truly think that my Palm is hard enough to deform a steel insert? And deform it enough to develop blade play? Steel doesn’t exactly like to deform very easily. I think I’d brake the bone in my hand before deforming that steel Insert.

Thanks buddy you just saved me a couple hundred bucks ...seriously .

Hey I’m not so experienced with knives but have a zt. Just out of curiosity when would pressure ever be applied in the direction that the locks are failing in actual use maybe they where designed not to withstand that force because they are never meant to have any in actual use. Not trolling here just really want to know for my self when to be careful when using my ZT knife.

I Believe Spine Wacking might Deform the Lockbar enough to cause Lockrock and also causing the blade to close .Zts design on their locks are more susceptible to this over other Knife Brands I have over a dozen or so Zts I never plan on the Spine Wack Exercise. When Your Zts come back from warranty don't over do Spine Wacking I believe it may cause Damage to Your knives.Spine wack cold steel knives they were designed to not close the blade when spine Wacking. You have a nice collection of knives treat them Babies Right.i subscribed Great video Sincerely Thomas Raymond of Fresno California.

@neroknives1828

5 жыл бұрын

Thomas Raymond all the knives on the table except for two of them had ever had pressure to the spine. So I had nothing to do with the lock rock, Nora where the steel inserts damaged in any way. When I got them back from zt, the first knife I hit on my hand failed the first time. I sold them all.

I've read quite a few of those comments, including the long thread started by Thomas Denton. Here's a scenario. You're using your heavy duty ZT (it could be any brand but we'll go with this) to do some serious cutting and somehow the knife slips from your hand and drops to the floor, or onto a rock or log from about a metre (3 feet). It lands at an angle that cause the lock to fail. When you pick it up and 'lock' it back into place, how much do you trust that expensive knife now? You dropped it and the lock failed. A 'safety' lock that fails after a smallish knock is NOT a safety lock. End of story.

@abc456f

5 жыл бұрын

Six of my nine zt's failed. What if your blade gets stuck in whatever you're cutting and you need to pull it upward to free it? Goodbye fingers. I've spent approx. $1500 on what are basically slip joints.

Non of my ZTs have lock rock, but I did get some of them used so I could use them.

You got people all fired up.......I love it. Great video but I have a question, what knife is on the top left second in and what knife in on the bottom row second in from the right?

@anthonyberardi9941

5 жыл бұрын

Jimmy Jimjoe that’s just because it’s an idiotic video of something 99.999% of people who know how to use knives will NEVER experience. Basically just bad-mouthing ZT for no reason whatsoever

Cedric and Ada promoted this video, and I greatly appreciate it. A nice psa you have here. Liked and subbed.

My zt 909 fails with light taps as well.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

amo757 sorry to hear that. There’s other ppl in the comments that tried it and had the same problem. But some people don’t. I think it’s just the luck of the draw. But I’ll be sending them back Monday to zt, and I’ll post a video about what they do.

@garyjacobs2484

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives Just a heads up DON'T send your ZT's in their original boxes you may not get the boxes back. Just what I've heard from others. No personal experience thankfully.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

gary jacobs thanks for the heads up, I’ll try and figure out a different way to box them up. I’ve been really Busy lately, hopefully I’ll have time to ship them out today.

@garyjacobs2484

6 жыл бұрын

neroknives bubble rap is your friend, lol. 😎

Well said. Have thought the same thing for years. My 0620 failed miserably with the lightest pressure on the spine. Some of it might be just a roll of the quality control dice on production knives. I have a 0920 that has 60%lock up. Good tension, a strong detent, zero play . It’s pretty tough. It’s still a frame lock though. My g10 0562 is solid with no play; but if spine whacked will fail sometimes because of early lock up. My cf version however with 50+% lock up does not fail at all.

I sent three knives with failing locks into zt for warranty service. A 0452cf, 0393sw, and a Kershaw link. They came back today and are no longer failing. They didn't indicate what they did but it looks to me like they replaced the lockbar inserts with taller ones. Gives me a little more confidence that if I do buy another Kai knife and it has a failing lock, I can send it back and get it corrected.

ALL MY SPYDERCO FRAME LOOKS WILL DO THE SAME , THE TUFF DID THAT ON ITS FIRST DAY

@neroknives1828

5 жыл бұрын

Mark W INTERESTING! NONE OF MY SPYDERCO, EMERSON, MICROTECH, STRIDER, FERRUM FORGE, HINDERER, or CRK DID!

@markw7303

5 жыл бұрын

@@neroknives1828 I haven't dared beat my microtechs:p ohhh maybe I'll try my 9 framelock bms

@neroknives1828

5 жыл бұрын

Mark W give them a shot. I think I should a couple spyderco knives not failing in this video. And then I also show the budget kershaw being able to pull a nail, and the 450 can’t.

3 жыл бұрын

@@neroknives1828 I could close my hinderer with bare hands. A frame lock isn't very strong.

What happens with the zt knives you get warranty for they ? Like to now

Thanks for your video. Your’s is not the first report of ZT lockup issues, though perhaps the best demonstration. I like ZT, although only certain models appeal to me. I was afraid to check my ZT’s after your vid, but I did anyway. 0450, 0900, 0801, 0460, 0850. Happy to report no lock rock. They all held up to spine whacking, though admittedly I didn’t go as hard as you. They did make a bit of noise on the spine whack and perhaps if I’d gone crazy one or more of them might’ve let go. I will add my ZT’s have seen only light-moderate use. A few notes: -I won’t argue with your lockrock and can’t explain why yours have ‘em & mine don’t. -Obsession with early lockup is dumb. -Mild lock stick is A-OK! Heavy lock stick is a drag. -Lockbar inserts are not necessary on a properly designed & manufactured knives. My opinion is they are a copout to circumvent precision manufacturing. -ALL lockbars will flex under load (they are springs, in essence). Flex + early lockup + low friction interface = increased potential for failure.

@neroknives1828

6 жыл бұрын

Jim M that’s good that you don’t have issues, and my sabenza makes a little noise when you tape the spine. But I think it has enough lock bar pressure + a late enough lock up for it to not affect it as much. I think the light lock bar pressure, in the name of a more drop shut action isn’t a good thing on what’s sold as a work knife.

What you are talking about is exactly why I won't ever own another ZT or Kershaw. I had three 0630s in a row, brand new and sent directly from ZT, that had lock failure right out of the box. The first one closed shut on my fingers when it got stuck in cardboard and I reversed the direction to pull it out. You don't have to try to use a these like "a hammer", as some of you have put it, for the knife to fail. ZTs have thick blades and sometimes get stuck in the medium being cut - that's all it takes.

@abc456f

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Six of my nine zt's failed using way less force than shown here.

@topfueljunkie100

5 жыл бұрын

This is yet another great comment because it describes exactly a way that ZT's poor engineering or poor quality control make for a DANGEROUS knife when used in simply NORMAL, ORDINARY tasks! People often complain about "when do you ever put pressure on the spine of the knife in daily tasks? That's not normal and never happens in real world usage so you shouldn't whine that it failed!" but that is plainly FALSE and I'm so glad you have shown a legitimate and ordinary task which puts pressure on the spine of the blade (pulling upwards on the knife, putting pressure on the spine) when it became pinched in the cardboard you were cutting. Clearly, since it closed on your hand this makes it DANGEROUS and a complete FAILURE of the locking mechanism which SHOULD be fixed by ZT but for some unknown reason they seem completely ignorant of how to fix this. This is why I won't ever buy another ZT again. I've bought 2 and sent them both back to ZT for this problem (and to have the blades resharpened) and not only did they send the knives back with edges WORSE than when I sent them in (they were sharpened at an atrocious 25 degrees PER SIDE!) but one of the knives even had BURN marks on the edge telling me they wrecked the heat treat in that spot on the blade! Are you kidding me?! To top it all off, BOTH the knive's lock issues were NOT fixed and one of them (my 0630) was even WORSE than before! As further evidence of ZT's incompetence and yet another display of how a normal every day usage of the knife leads to a dangerous lock failure, when I use the knife's Emerson Wave feature to deploy the blade, the simple act of the blade flipping open creates enough pressure being sent back into the lock bar that the lock instantly pops free and releases the blade immediately after it just locked open. So simply using the knife's built in wave opening feature and having it open via this method (and not even doing it very hard or fast! Just a normal deployment) creates enough resulting "bounce back" type of pressure to be sent spineward and into the lock bar causing it to fail. So if I open the knife one of the ways it was designed to be opened, I could unknowingly be about to use the knife with the lock unengaged which is obviously dangerous. This is completely unacceptable and after reading all the stories here about knives being sent back repeatedly to ZT and never being truly fixed, this is why I feel I was ripped off with 2 junk knives from ZT. Having a warranty isn't any good when the company is too incompetent to fix a simple problem, let alone the several issues I sent mine in for, NONE of which were fixed! ALL of which were WORSE when returned to me!

@abc456f

5 жыл бұрын

@@topfueljunkie100 Yet I still see comments about how this is not a problem for some people. I think they're just knowingly ignoring it, just to make themselves think that THEIR ZT's are perfectly fine. Making excuses about how your grip makes the lock stronger, as if a lock's strength should ever have to depend on how you hold it. These knives are dangerous and I'll never use them. You think zt will ever do anything about it? Issue a mass recall? I'm not holding my breath.

@topfueljunkie100

5 жыл бұрын

@@abc456f Yeah, I agree, I think some are knowingly ignoring it to make themselves feel better while some others are just plain ignorant of what's really going on yet they feel the need to try to discredit those of us who know firsthand what's happening. Seems there's a lot of people on YT here who are just eager to share a contrary opinion even if they haven't really thought thru it yet! I completely agree about the lock mechanism not being dependant upon how you hold it. You'd think that'd be obvious right?! Just wish those who make such silly comments about how (they think) the lock won't fail if you hold it right would understand that their "theory" doesn't really hold any water! I know, I've tried! To those of them who might see this comment, I've tried this very thing myself to see if it might prevent the lock from failing and it definitely does not. Even Nero himself said this elsewhere how it only added about maybe 30% strength into the lock but never completely prevented its failure. As far as ZT doing anything about this issue, I doubt there'll be any sort mass recall unless there were some sort of class action lawsuit or a big enough impact to their business by enough of us bringing awareness to the issue that their sales were impacted or at least that they feared this could happen by enough bad publicity. But the likelihood of this happening is pretty slim just as you already expect. It's a real shame because I DO like their designs but I just wish they functioned as they should and weren't a danger to use!

Frame locks suck imho. Hard to get right in mass production

@Skinnymoose

4 жыл бұрын

They are light duty, which is fine as far as it goes. The problem is these companies pass them off as hard use to people who don't know any better.

@Skinnymoose

3 жыл бұрын

@@Butch_Deezlsteak STFU

My 0393 had very light lock up and wouldn't lock up a couple times and all I as doing was opening and closing it. It was brand new. So I sent it in. Also a 0350 had blade play and was new and sent that in also. I still like those knives and hope ZT fixes these issues because I will buy more.

Whatever happened with the warranty service? I've got two with this issue.