Thank you so much for adding the paces in the metric system ! It makes it so much more enjoyable to not have to pause the video to do the conversions. And thank you for the great content !

@Vo2maxProductions

5 ай бұрын

Happy to help!

Thanks Sage, interesting and thought provoking as always.

Looking forward to this. I will check it out later.

Thanks Sage for all of your videos over the years and sticking with it. You are a wealth of practical and powerful running training info.

An amazing and humble person always has very insightful sessions

Great talk coach!

Great info.

Your marathon example works perfectly for me. 2:59:15 at Boston in 2023. My easy pace is roughly in that 8:15 to 9:00 like you mentioned in your example. I agree completely with everything you say as conversational pace is my barometer, and I look at HR data usually after the fact. The half marathon example is also perfect as that's about where I'm at. Thank you for doing these talks over the years. Good info. I've used the info along with Daniels, Pfitz, and other similar quite successfully. Another phenomena I find in wrist strap in my data is something I call "cadence locking" where it picks up my running and not my HR. I would be interested in a talk where cardiac drift is taken into account due to high humid environments like Florida.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Great to hear and congrats! Simple answer: Yes, weather conditions really need to be taken into account with heart rate and pace (esp with humidity or high altitude or high wind etc).

hello just wanted to thank the owner of this youtube channel for all the awesome tips he gave. ran my first marathon last sunday and i had a blast. time wise well typical for a beginner 5hrs almost 6.

Love your channel! This topic hits home for me right now. HR strap (garmin) not accurate so staying in zone 2 is so hard.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@IT_Farhan

6 ай бұрын

Wet your contact points, HR strap is almost always very accurate. Even the cheap ones.

I've been training with a wrist based HRM for quite some time and recently bought the Polar H10 chest strap. Sooo much more accurate. Great video!

Could you maybe do a video explaining Coros heart rate zones? Is Aerobic Endurance basically Zone 2? What Coros data do you focus on? Love your content, keep up the good work!

@IT_Farhan

6 ай бұрын

Ideally you want to go by RPE/feel or pace because of how much heart rate varies due to temperature and hydration. But if you want the general guidance of HR, then the best way is to be manually setting your zones based on Karvonen Heart Rate Reserve.

Wow that production quality

Thanks Coach for sharing deep insight on zone 2 training, for a runner which just completed his first marathon sub 4 should i continue zone 2 training most of the times or it's actually fine to run at zone 2 or even zone 3 for better running endurance improvement?

Sage maybe a video on tips/tricks (focus on new runners) on how to use your watch data. Coros would approve! With correct headline you'll get some decent traffic IMHO.

Have you talked through the Coros LTHR driven zones? I usually train by those. I would love hearing your thoughts on them.

Hi Sage, would be great the see a video on how to become the most versatile runner over a multi year period. As in not having an A race as such or any specific distance as the focus but progressively getting PR's at distances and terrains from 5km road races to 100km/mile trail runs. I realise this is a huge topic of course!

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

The faster one gets, the harder that kind of thing can do! I've seen a lot of 3:00 marathoner types get PRs in the 5km and 10km and half and marathons after doing a 100-mile ultra though because they trained with higher mileage and had a bigger aerobic base finally. For someone like me it's usually the opposite (I'm never touching my 5km PR or marathon PR again)...but I think I can get a lot better at 100 milers still.

@JerryMurphy-he9ok

6 ай бұрын

Great as I'm aiming for 3 hour marathon at start of the summer and then will train for ultra, looking forward to those PR's and seeing how your year goes.@@Vo2maxProductions

I am quite interested about training on a treadmill (for Phase 2 -4 based on JD's Running Formula). Sure I know about setting the incline to 1 and how to run easy or steady on a treadmill, but what about interval and repetition pace? I would try it but then again I am afraid of an injury, so better ask the pro. :)

I think this is why the "trinity" of training monitering is a good guideline to follow in general if possible: Perception, Physiology and external load.

Great presentation. Also agree if we all went out running zone 3 to 4 everyday it would increase more reliance on glucose type IIa intermediate fibre types rather than type I fatty acid metabolism. This would make the body less alkaline and increase sickness risk and tendonitis. The pyramidal approach can allow alot more time in Zone2 in the 1st half of a 20-24wk buildup somilar to Lydiards Marathon Conditioning 10wk phase in a 24wk build. I agree heartrate needs to be accurate and once you can spot the inconsistencies in the data it becomes easier which to trust & disregard. Even as a plantpowered 40yr old runner I still have a 181 lt2 and 199 true max which throws the 220 minus age right out of the park. I try to drum this into people as a run coach here in qld aus. Cheers Sage.

@littleboyblue2323

6 ай бұрын

How accurate is "accurate"? Is 5 beats close enough? Is 10 beats close enough? I can't say my watch is 100% accurate, but it is very consistent. I can keep my HR within a 6 beat range for almost an hour, and I do run by HR not by pace. I have had a lot of success the in the last 5 months since I switched to running by HR on my easy runs and I don't think I would have that success unless the HR monitor was pretty accurate. Just for reference I wear a Garmin 245.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Good points on the metabolic range and shifts as well as muscle fiber stimulation. As you know generally for marathoners and ultra runners especially "fat burning" is the name of the game...as well as endurance-extension of aerboic threshold

Hi Sage, great explanation and I hope you had a great time when you came to Honolulu last month. Was humidity tougher than you expected? I have been living in HI for 10 years and even today, it never feels easy. Summers are crazy.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Yes it was quite high for me (near 90% on race morning at 5am). I think the future I'd probably look into doing some sauna training since I was coming from a very cold and dry environment here in CO. That being said, I adjusted my pace and hydration strategy as best as I could I think!

I'm increasingly seeing marathon and ultra plans introduce speedwork early and focus on race pace workouts in the last phase of the plan. Argument usually being that training should get progressively more specific as the race approaches. This is quite different from plans with focus on sharpening/v02max workouts in the last phase. It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

We do that exactly in our Higher Running plans. It's really about a blend of training phases where the goal (for marathons and ultras especially) isn't Vo2max work/speed for the sake of Vo2max but rather to boost Running Economy. So early on in our plans we often have short Fartleks, Hill Repeats etc. Much like Lydiard early phase Hill training, The general trend is that you can work on Aerobic Base Building and Speed at the same time. I call early on higher intensity workouts "pre-Vo2max" because usually the intervals are under 2-3min each and the the intensity is only up to 95% max (instead of true Vo2max). We're looking to improve form, efficiency, power and stimulate fast twitch muscle fibers most weeks out of the year.

I wonder how much of a difference it would make if Sage officially coaches Kofuzi. That would be quite interesting!

@Parmesao_Enlatado

6 ай бұрын

That's what everyone wants to see

@joshuasasfire2759

6 ай бұрын

Serious runner needs to oversee Sages training.

@414peps

6 ай бұрын

I need this.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

First off I think he has a lot of potential to run a lot faster in the half marathon than his current goal and PR. Like he should be knocking on a time closer to 1:20 flat eventually. We'll see how Houston goes as he did do a few of the workouts I suggested. I'm not in control of what other things he has been doing though (in the past few weeks or months) and I certainly don't know what's going on in his head (which you always want as an official coach).

@rgfrobotics

6 ай бұрын

What we want to see is kofuzi coaching sage 😂 see how much sage can detrain

I don't know whether using shotty HR data from more intense efforts justifies that heart straps/wrist watches are shitty for tracking zone 2/lower efforts. I find that my wrist strap gives very consistent HR results when comparing to my relative effort (both in a run and over different runs) during zone 2 runs (where I use a combination of talk test, perceived effort and HR to make sure I'm in zone 2).

Hey Sage. Good information in this video. I use HR in training but one of my main issues relying on HR zones is that it's a lagging measure as opposed to a leading measure like pace or power. That is to say I can start a run in pace/power zone 2 but it takes my HR minutes to climb through HR zone 1. This effect is worse in Threshold and vVO2max workouts because it can take my HR an entire rep to reach the zone...sometimes not at all dependent on fatigue level and environmental considerations! As runners we have a lot more control over the speed and power we put into the run (leading) and less so on HR (lagging) which is why I tend to prefer a pace zone. I realize that watch and equipment manufacturers want us to utilize their latest and greatest HR monitors but I believe linking zones to percentages anchored to other physiological measures like LT1, 1 hour pace (Daniels' Threshold), vVO2Max make it easier to train in all the zones, including zone 2.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

well "power" is simply not going to be calculated accurately when running (I've done many talks on this).... Whereas pace or velocity is usually the go to for workouts specific for flat road and track runners...but not so much for trail runners or doing hill workouts or running in the wind etc. There is a slight HR leg, but if you launch into a 3-min Vo2max rep you should be hitting over 90% max within 1-min and then have a steady climb to over 95% of Max within the next 2-minutes. It sounds like maybe your numbers aren't accurate or your pacing is not true Vo2max velocity. Daniels VDOT spells out relative pace zones based on recent race performances.....which of course is more accurate.

@justjustjoo

6 ай бұрын

Slow reactions in HR between reps could also tell you about alot of training load on your body. When fresh, HR should settle in 1-2minutes within the rep. Or after the interval, a sign of a well recovered body should drop your HR quick, respectively. The more your HR data looks like many "shark fins" in a row in interval training, the better you should be recovered. Ofcourse, doing HR based training always requires a strap. Wrist HR is more of a good quess than the actual heart rate.

My Garmin wrist HR is trash, takes 10 mins to really show something semi accurate but always delayed. Started using a Wahoo chest strap and the HR seems very accurate

Heart rate all the way for me.personally (even if it means walking up everything resembling a hill on easy day), its the body 'stress meter' , talk test is okay but I've found when ive been overtrained in past i can keeo a conversation even at high heart rate and that's always lead to breakdown burnout illness and injuey. Thanks as ever Sage

Sage, i want to break 3hr in the marathon this year man. I did 3:33 in Maui last year but I’m ready to lock in. You taking applications for runners?

really hard to stay in zone 2 with the weather here in the Philippines typical heat here is at around 32° C and sometimes quite humid when i get out on midday runs, i have to base it on breathing effort although i can hold a conversation, my heart rate just spikes up to tempo and even threshold

@Voorneman

6 ай бұрын

Indonesian here. Same issues with the heat and humidity

@ricardiumhues

6 ай бұрын

yep my long run today in Brisbane Australia got to 32 degrees and my HR skyrocketted every time the sun hit me. I averaged at 168 according to my wrist HR which may have had some cadence lock as I have a slow gait but is probably accurate based on how I felt at the end. I think i'll start getting up at 4am to avoid the sun

@IT_Farhan

6 ай бұрын

You are doing it right. Don’t worry about heart rate because of temperature/hydration fluctuations, go by Zone 2 feeling.

@jimoconnor8597

5 ай бұрын

High humidity and temperatures for 6-7 months here in South GA. Just slow down. Z2 can be achieved.

@markmarco3347

4 ай бұрын

Dont worry about Z2, it is only for western people who can benefit that with weather. You might try on the tread-meal with AC or train in cold areas such as Baguio but then high altitude is another factor to consider…

I've worn my Garmin Fenix 6 Pro Solar watch simultaneously with my Garmin Edge 830 bike computer with a chest hr strap during my bike rides and can confirm that there is only a 1 bpm difference between the 2 devices.

@jimoconnor8597

5 ай бұрын

I’ve done the same in all seasons and I see as many issues with HR strap as my Fenix 6 Pro but they are always close enough to each other. I switched to power as soooo many things affect HR beyond the monitoring device so plenty of inaccurate data even if the device is recording accurate.

what tips or suggestions do you have for someone training at elevation in Colorado to prepare for a half marathon in Florida at sea level? I have been trail running for the last several years. I've done Pikes Peak Marathon and Barr Trail Mountain race 3 times. I signed up for treasure Coast half marathon March 3th in Florida. recently I have been running around my neighborhood in Colorado Springs at about 7,000 ft and on the treadmill. from what I understand I should have the altitude advantage My concern is how the humidity will affect me...

Oddly enough, I don't see much of a difference between my my chest strap and my Garmin Vivoactive 3 so I don't bother with it anymore. I am experimenting with just going by feel because I freak out when my heart rate sky rockets when it't hot outside.

Very interesting, could anyone point me to the software shown on the display in the background? Looks like an interesting visualisation.

Hey Sage I've learned a lot from you so far 💪 I'm carefully recovering from my first 80k on Christmas Eve. If there's one thing I'd love to see in a future video: what are some indicators (e.g. Resting HR, HRV, HR @ x pace, subjective) that show I might be ready to resume everyday running and/or workouts after an ultramarathon?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

congrats! I'd monitor how my muscles and legs feel (Geneally after 2 weeks off things are pretty decently recovered for most people...but then you have to come back slowly and gradually and there can still be some residual fatigue and higher risk for injury). HRV might not be accurate depending on the watch. An elevated morning (rested) pulse would be a sign of overtraining and lack of recovery.

@christianmena5219

6 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions thanks brother! All the best

As an HR outlier, thanks for this. I'm struggling with weird HR issues. I'm using a Garmin strap and watch and even started using electrode gel. And yet still while doing easy warmup my HR will go get into the 150s even low 160s. Eventually (anywhere from 20-60 minutes later) it will eventually drop into the 100-110. When I'm doing VO2Max reps it will top out in the high 140s. And that easy run variability is with even pace and elevation and power as reported by the strap. For reference I'm 57 with a 3:05 Marathon PR at CIM last year. I've learned to trust my effort over my pace, but it's still puzzling. And a question, which of your plans would be most appropriate for attempting a PR at CIM? The Boston for the hills? The BQ even though I have a for age comfortable BQ?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

hey congrats on the 3:05 at CIM! that's awesome! sorry to hear about your Garmin HR issues. Could try a COROS armband strap? I'd say it's most likely those lower numbers could be more accurate and the 150s or 160s could be a cadence lock value? For Higher Running Traiing plans we've seen a lot of people run even under 2:50 with our "BQ plan". If you're actually training for Boston or New York (and since you've already qualified) then the "Hilly Plan" would be good. Thanks!

KZread definitely likes consistent uploads and don’t blame you for not wanting to post a video like that. IMO I don’t feel anyone (KZreadrs) need to share this. We follow and watch your content because we like it, not to know how much $$$ you make 🤷🏻‍♂️. Thanks for sharing a LOT of content and great tips and suggestions for us runners 👍🏼.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for that! i mean I care about how much money I make because it's getting hard to justify putting in the time and work to even keep uploading videos when I'm making less and less money over the years (despite sub count increasing). There is a lot of increased competition now, so with watch times and viewership down it's going to hurt me financially (hence why I rely so much on Patreon).

@LuisBecerra79

6 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions definitely deserve more $$$, but YT is definitely messing the algorithm in some “weird” way so that you have to put more effort on uploading videos. Hope this year goes much much better for you 👍🏼

Hello there Sage- I’ve been watching your channel for years. This question is off topic but, I have over ten years of running experience--many half marathons, 5k’s and 1 marathon under my belt. I am trying to achieve a BQ in Traverse City, MI (Bayshore Marathon). I know Hoka is your sponsor, but am wondering if you use any other shoes for long runs for training? My first marathon I trained in Altra and used the Nike Alphafly for race day. In everyday running I use Brooks Hyperion Max. I do notice changing up shoes is beneficial-any suggestions for long run shoes for training? BTW-0 drop shoes are no longer in my rotation….

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

hey great to hear and thanks for your long-term support. I only wear HOKAs. I would be a violation of my contract if I seen wearing anything else. I think rotating shoes (different models and different brands) is very good for different workouts and certain runs depending on how you feel for the day. For example I rotate my HOKAs like: Clifton, Solimar, Rincon, Rocket X2, Speedgoats, Torrents all in the span of any given week. Generally you want to at least do some long runs and longer workouts in the shoe you plan to race the marathon in though. Maybe not as many easy slower runners, but you want to get a feel for how that shoe works around marathon goal pace for miles on end.

Sage have you ever ran with weight or a vest? Is that too much stress on the Achilles for long runs. Could it be a good addition to build power?

How do you identify the root cause of a slow down late in a marathon? Burning slightly too many matches early on VS dehydration VS running out of carbs. I’ve bonked but I’ve also slowed. They were two different experiences and felt like two different reasons

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

There can be several specific things depending on the person and how they paced/managed their race. Generally the limiting factor is glycogen store depletion, but dehydration will also "turn your legs into cement" and shut things down in the last 10km especially. There is also "sheer muscle failure" which I think is the #1 cause of cramps. People also get stomach/GI issues, or an old muscle/tendon injury flares up and alters their form. Generally the pacing has to perfect and appropriate to a person's level of fitness for there not to be a slow-down in the last 10km. You can only take in so many carbs and drink during the race so it's a tough balance. It's also generally never going to be "lactic acid" and HR values are mostly kept under 90% for the entire race.

@Running4Fitness

6 ай бұрын

Energy. How you develop and manage your energy levels

The fact I don't know my actual max heart rate, made me use the percentages of my AnT (Anaerobic Threshold) for my zones. I always use a chest strap, every run and the data is very good, no spikes and drops. Since it (theoretically) is impossible to run above that threshold (AnT) for more than an hour and I did lots of races at just above and just below that time at max effort, I think my determined AnT is accurate enough to use it for zones. For example: running at AeT (Aerobic Threshold), based on my AnT, feels like how it is described and how it should be. Also running at Zone 1 and 2 (talk test etc) feels like described.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

This is similiar to a comment above about LTHR zone extrapolation. Which I agree can be very useful and a less intense way to estimate even Vo2max and Max HR numbers. However, what do you use for Aet (and what percentage of Max HR) are you saying it will be valued at. People can range from 70% yo 94% (with their threshold in regards to max) in my opinion. A 40-min time trail (or 10km race performance for a lot of people) can certainly help dial in true Lactate Threshold pace and some relative HR numbers.....then if we take the HR data from that we can extrapolate up and down a bit..

@bartb217

6 ай бұрын

For me AnT is around 93% of, my by chest strap registered recent, max HR (Last summer at a 5K race that felt at max effort). AeT is around 82% of that max HR. I used to be a track athlete (400-1500m) and did way too little Aerobic training in those days, I have been doing that for about a year now, after a 6 year break from running. It feels like the pace at my AeT is going up very fast the last couple of months. The paces my coach uses for sessions (VO2max, AeT, AnT, 10K pace, etc) match with those thresholds, when I look at the HR data after those sessions and races.

Been doing zone 2 for 5 years but I'm not afraid to say it's a load of bull shit. There's a million factors why your heart rate will go ballistic and it's always a rollercoaster. You can go from 14 min pace to 9 min to back to 14. It's not worth the frustration, just run and enjoy it. Zone 2 training is stupid.

Would it be much worse to just rest on days between higher intensity runs? Does it depend on how fit you are. I feel more fatigued the day after a 45min slow Z2 run than I do after a 16min threshold run! Could this be because my type 1 muscles are not conditioned for running? I can squat heavy so I know my legs are not weak. MT.

This is just one man's opinion but if I was you I would post your "A" content like you have here but I would also be blasting training content many times a week. I follow a guy and he just goes out and posts his daily runs with a few comments. Lets us know what he is doing that day and why etc etc. I throw them up while at my day job. Gets me excited to run after work.

Hi Sage - Long time Fan. I have a question about Lactate threshold workouts (LT2) and if you can workout at this level at 2 different paces. 2 different workouts. 16x400m w/ 35 second recover and 10x1km w/ 40 second recovery. Assume my LT is the same as 170bpm (I don’t have a Lactate monitor and know from experience this is where my breathing level changes - so it’s a proxy for LT2). The goal of the workout is to not exceed this HR. When I do this for both workouts I run the 400Ms 10-15 seconds quicker. My question is if both of these workouts are LT2 workouts - ie to they both get my blood lactate up to the same level.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

I wouldn't consider the goal of repeat 400m to be a lactate threshold workout (despite it creating lactate values that might near threshold). Usually the goal of repeat 400m is to practice Vo2max velocity pacing and mainly boost running economy without the full strain of a 2-4-min Vo2max interval. Or it can be used for an anaerobic stimluus depending on your race distance goals, times and experience level. Those are very, very specific and short rest periods. For true lactate threshold I'd go more for a 60 sec rest on the 10 x 1km as that is a big workout. How you manipulate the exact rest period (be it 35 seconds or 50 seconds) really matters here on the 400s. Also the paicng.....a 2-3 sec difference per 400m can greatly influence lactate levels. It's hard to say and honestly I don't have a lactate meter myself. With HR you should get some nice spikes on each rep and progressively they would increase as fatigue builds if pacing is held constant.

By the way, regarding my previous comment that mentioned training of fast twitch oxidative fibers. Maybe they aren't important for fast endurance running. I don't know. But whatever is needed, some faster effort during a long run (maybe just strides) seems to be a prudent modification to just zone 2 training.

When do you recommend starting vo2 max workouts for a 3200m runner in the training cycle? Currently 5 weeks into base and most important races are in April.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Generally March I'd say. You don't enough need a true Vo2max workout every week and really after about 4-6 of them you should be close to peaking. Also realize an all-out 3200m race is a Vo2max workout stimulus!

So much variability with HR and too dependent on many factors (time of day, glycogen levels, sleep, hydration, terrain, etc). I think smart watches are great for a lot of things, but HR is not one of them. I usually have my athletes do a 3k time trial to determine paces using a running calculator (thanks Tinman) and that works well for everyone.

Great talk! What do you think about setting your zones as percentage of threshold HR instead of max heart rate? I think LTHR is easier to determine (e.g. from a race effort) than max HR and it takes into account that the ratio of LTHR/max HR is very individual. I use Joe Friel's zones (Z2 = 85-89% of LTHR).

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

I guess I personally already kind of that. For example, we always like it when athletes use recent race performances to help evaluate fitness (be that threshold or Vo2max). So an all-out (and well paced 3km-5km) usually can yield a very high HR value (ideally close to 100% HR max), but also a veloctiy/pace around Vo2max. Which we than can extrapolate on. Likewise, a recent 10km or half marathon race performance can be used to evaluate appropriate and reasonable paces and HR values that can be extrapolated to Lactate Theshold and are great estimators of potential Marathon race pace. So it's basically still all using extrapolations (which depending on how the data is collected and used and how well the athlete is at pacing) can be very useful and pretty accurate. Beginners often have trouble identifying their true Thresholds though.

Hi. How about some advice for older marathon runners? What should we change as we get into our 60+years to remain healthy and injury free. Thank you.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

I've done a couple videos on this topic over the years. Generally protein intake can be slightly higher, resistance and some weight training can really help, and more warm-up time and less super high intensity : kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZH1r1aZrZNaTpJM.html

That's why listening to your body and running by feel is the way forward, even try running without a watch on some of your training runs.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

While "running by feel" I think is important to "sense" pacing and the Thresholds, I generally like the science and obejective data that actually supports things. So for road marathon or track or 5km or half marathon runners with specific time goals pace is very, very important. Velocity at Lactate Threshod, and Vo2max and Running Economy are importat. The point of this talk is to say that if you have an accurate heart rate strap you can read and record real , meaningful data...but it needs to be displayed in the right context and evaluated in a relative /individual sense. I'm all for wearing a watch and tracking time, distance and pace and HR on pretty much every run....that is if one has a specific race performance in mind and is serious about fitness improvement goals. Otherwise one is just relying on subjective feelings and training on a whim without any structure or workout plan.

@markmcglincy3907

6 ай бұрын

@Vo2maxProductions while I agree with you in what you are saying running with heart rate in zones can be of benefit but it can also have a lot of variables that can effect data. I know that technology has improved over the years which can improve running performance if the user fully understands how to use the data, but sometimes running by feel can take away the stress of looking at the data been collected if it's not what you want to see. A former world marathon record holder used to race without a watch and ran on feel so it can have it's pluses.

@its1027

6 ай бұрын

Hey, you do you, but to tell everyone to throw out data collection and just go by “feel” isn’t any different than people who are too obsessed with data to train properly. It’s fine if you don’t want to be data driven but to think you have something better than Sage, again, you do you.

@nick-marshall-photography

6 ай бұрын

Idk man. Usually people start out running "by feel" and then quickly realize they're hitting performance plateaus because 170bpm might "feel" easy to one person due to a lack of experience or any other number of variables. If you just run for fun, there's definitely nothing wrong with just running by feel. But if you're trying to optimize your training for a specific race...I mean, there's a reason why the top endurance athletes in the world are doing workouts based on heart rate/blood lactate levels instead of just how they feel.

@MNP208

6 ай бұрын

@@nick-marshall-photography I agree with this statement. I'm 56 years old and I'm always running around 156. It doesn't "feel" like Zone 5 to me. I interpret Zone 5 as sprinting pace.

What system is that behind him the graphs ?

Amen. Although I will point out some caution to your words. A recent study done on speeds for easy runs showed proof that it’s almost impoimpossible to run to slow in perspective to the person running the easy pace. I have proven this with the athletes I coach as well. I hear this misconception from many athletes and coaches to “be careful of not running to slow on your easy days” when if you look at MANY Kenyan runners their easy pace can easily get down to 10 minutes per mile. This being much slower than obviously what they are capable of running.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

I actually mentioned in the talk how many Kenyan runners will start their runs at 10-min per mile (or use those slow paces on their warm-up or cool down or for a second or third run of the day). But often they speed up to 5-min miles very quickly! It is also worth nothing these guys are doing 120-miles a week and 2-3 hard sessions (like double threshold and Vo2max) on a weekly basis with maybe a hard 40km long run there.... My point is some people have taken "zone 2" too slow because they have bad HR data. If you want to reach your full potential as a runner y ou need to hammer some workouts and do some real speed (much higher zones) and not just jog around slowly all the time.

@andytv22

6 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions You are right. I think the key that most bothers me is that when talking about 20% being hard and 80% being easy that 20% also includes even all moderate efforts, which i've found gets often overlooked. I often tell my athletes that moderate efforts would be close to marathon to ultra marathon effort and we still should be avoiding these paces or in the least not running faster than ultra marathon effort. You did mention that you thought it odd that running around 9 minutes per mile for that athlete seemed a bit slow. I would argue and i've also proven as a coach and athlete myself, that that specific word usage shouldn't be used, as I stated before we should never be worried about athletes running too slow as the science in recent years says "the slower the better", roughly 80% of the time. I do agree with you on the topic though that too many athletes run too fast on their easy days and then don't have adequate rest for when they are doing speed work. I appreciate all the content you've produced over the years. You'll always have a supporter here.

@johndavies7626

6 ай бұрын

​@@Vo2maxProductions how hard should you push the hard sessions? Is there a percentage you should look for mileage wise?

Inigo San Millan, coach of Tour de France 2x winner Tadej Pogacar....has the most comprehensive and informative podcasts on why training Zone 2, or "fatmax" is beneficial. It's training lactate clearance capacity.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

hate to break it to you , but a lot of pro cyclists are still doping IMO. So some training things the "pros do" go out the window if they are on PEDs.....just an FYI.

As an old guy, who started running a bit in my 50's, I just don't have a heart output volume to enable me to RUN easily. Sure, I can shuffle along about 2 minutes per mile faster than a fast walking pace, but that doesn't involve enough of the right muscle fibers. So, a slow EEZ run doesn't train enough of the muscle fibers that would be called upon during a faster marathon effort. So I compromise the zone 2 training by inserting a 0.2 mile of faster running at the end of each mile. Hopefully that will train up my fast twitch oxidative fibers along with the usual strands of slow twitch fibers. The whole idea of using zone 2 training to increase heart output by trimming down the heart wall thickness doesn't apply for older runners, so I've read, no no sense in sticking with an insufficiant heart rate.

Are there any other risks or negatives running a bit faster than zone 2 on easy days rather than being more injury prone? Just curious because my volume is not super high. Also, at what kind of mileage does running too fast on base mileage days make you more injury prone?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

It's mainly the injury risk (and mental burn out risk) as well as exhausting your muscle fibers and getting sloppy form (if you pushed Thresholds every day). For marathoners and ultra runners there can also be a negative impact on fat burning ability and utilization because at higher intensities the body goes straight to carbs/glycogen stores. Whereas there is a ton of benefits to staying in Zone 2 for most of your runs/mileage. The mileage threshold (for injury risk) really depends on the individual.

@brentwoodxckids5401

6 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions Okay, gotcha. Thanks!

Other ppl say slogging through a lot of miles at Z2 pace is actually going to get you injured…. Running form is worse at slower pace. Running a large volume with not great mechanics could be a worse injury risk than running low volume fast with lots of rest in between.

@Vo2maxProductions

5 ай бұрын

it's not black and white. One needs both very fast speed work as well as very slow jogging (and the full 5 zones in between!). One key to to try to run with better form even at very slow speeds.

Its just one type of exercise, easy means you can recover quickly thus can do it more often

Staying in zone 2 is incredibly difficult for me. I have to jog to keep my HR that low for any length of time.

@Kelly_Ben

6 ай бұрын

You’re lucky, many of us have to walk to get it down! 😅

What's the dashboard on your computer screen?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

COROS training hub

I can run an 8:30 at my best pace for a 5k but even when I drop down my pace to 10:30-11:30 for my easy runs, my heart rate averages around 165. Should I drop my pace even more on my easy days even though I already perceive these paces as easy ?

@caseydupre5376

6 ай бұрын

My garmin says I have an adequate amount of high aerobic load but I have “low aerobic shortage”

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

@@caseydupre5376 I'd say you're probably fine around 11:00/mile pace for an Easy Day (as long as you aren't breathing too hard)....as that is a good 2:30/mile slower than 5km race pace. As far as the Garmin sayings....I'd just ignore that. You using a chest strap for that heartrate?

@caseydupre5376

6 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions I’m just using the garmin watch on my wrist so the HR is probably skewed depending on how tight or loose I have it on my wrist. I need to look into getting a chest strap

What’s should your HR be for zone 2?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Generally it's around 65-78% of Max HR.

What a strange thing. Coros watches quite often display not accurate HR and have delays when a pace changes but their strap is accurate? Right?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Any "smart watch "watch brand can have issues with optical (wrist based sensors) as well as sudden pace changes. COROS has solved this issue with a arm band strap (just as accurate as a chest strap). For pace changes there is the COROS POD 2. That is a whole other topic as the precise GPS location data can only detect sudden pace changes so well (again regardless of watch brand). GPS accuracy of the COROS watch is spot on as I'll run a USATF Cert. Measured Marathon and record 26.3-26.4 miles (which is spot on considering not being able to cut perfect tangents). But look at Kofuzi's HR data on that workout to see how innacuare a brand like Garmin can be (he was wearing a Garmin).

I'm not sure what this workout was supposed to be, but it looks like a track workout that he did on the road. Perhaps his HR looks off because he had to stop for traffic or to cross streets? I'm sure if he did this on track his HR would look more in line with what you're recommending.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

If you look at the velocity lines he held very consistent (and constant) 800m paces for the entirely of each rep. Stops for traffic etc should show up on the velocity line and greatly influence his pace/lap splits. There would also be a predictable dip in HR to correlate directly with that drop/stop. I didn't see any of that. Just bad HR data

Is your max heart rate really only 175 ? If so then how come it is so low ?

Does my inner monologue count as conversational pace?

@Diegozijnyoutube

6 ай бұрын

No

What about just using power and taking the subjective HR data out of the equation?

@Vo2maxProductions

5 ай бұрын

the concept of "power" in running is actually more subjective i'd say. HR data. (when accurate) is about as objective as it gets (as well as pace or velocity).

@jimoconnor8597

5 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions Please explain? My HR is affected by stress, hydration levels, hills, heat, wind, hormone levels, etc. Pretty sure I've never been on a run that hasn't had one of these outside forces affecting me. For me, a watt is watt.

Is there a purpose for Zone 3?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

yes. See my Zone 3 talk. We call it "Uptempo"..

So when can it be overrated according to the title of your video?

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

1. When HR data is not accurate in the first place. 2. When people go too slow (thinking they are in Zone 2). When people run too much mileage and spend too much time in Zone 2 and neglect doing actual high intensity speed work in Zone 3,4 , and 5 etc.

ditch HR run with a power meter , pace or by feel (perceived exertion)

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

that's going to be a guessing game. Might as well just use pace and breathing rate

@user-sy6so1mv5e

5 ай бұрын

Stryd power meters are very accurate Sage @@Vo2maxProductions

HR was so unreliable for me to use for training. Moved to Stryd power and haven’t looked back

@leeholloway4477

6 ай бұрын

I'm really starting to believe that using power metrics particularly with long distance trails, hilly terrain etc. gives a much better pacing strategy and can also incorporate the fatigue factor over the second half of longer distances

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Oh don't even get me started on "power in running"! I've done multiple talks on this. I think power is the gold standard of cycling...but to capture it in running is basically using an accelerometer and an algorithm (which is smoothing over velocity data). Might as well just use pace as it's a simple work output. "Power in Running" is essentially not accurate to truly capture because of the mechanical differences between running and cycling. In cycling more "true power" is realized because they are actually using force/tension plates and the energy transfer of each pedal stroke is very uniform. HeadWind and Uphills?....all directly taken into account with pedal push-off power. ...not so much in running with a simple accelerometer.

I don’t trust anyone who calls it a Moff formula. 😂

… so make it rain 🌧️ 📽️💰💵🤑

1. If you don’t really know your maxHR, get on a treadmill and find it! It takes about 15 minutes after warm up, and you need to really kill yourself….and even if you fell short by 3BPM, so what? Better 3BPM too low than too high. 2. Gotta have a chest strap HR. No compromises here…otherwise the HR data isn’t reliable at all. 3. Zone 2 (in a 5 zone model) is a slower pace than you think. I’m a sub 2:50 marathoner and I’ve done a tremendous amount of true zone 2 training over the past 2 years. My average zone 2 pace for 120 minutes is 8:45 per mile with an absolute max pace of 8:20 per mile--and that’s being careful to NEVER go over my zone 2 ceiling. Zone 2 is slow…which is why most people don’t have the patience for it. 4. “Conversational pace” is a misnomer. I can have a conversation going 7:00 per mile….but that’s way beyond my zone 2 ceiling. Figure out what it “feels like” by doing paces while viewing your real HR. 5. I’m faster in my 40s than I was in my 30s due to being smarter about training. Zone 2 is part of that.

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

I'd say your Easy (Zone 2) paces line up pretty much with a marathoner in the 2:40s-2:50 range. Keep in mind I was critical of Kofuzi because he is a 2:56 marathoner and he was doing 10:00/miles (when in reality I think he should generally be closer to 9:00). He also was barely doing any speedwork/Vo2max work or true LT work until the last month or so (and he's training for a half marathon PR). FYI when I say "conversational pace" I mean you can easily talk in depth with solid paragraphs (not sputtering sentences). Sure, it's a bit more subjective, but it was just an example to get people thinking in the right direction.

@quengmingmeow

6 ай бұрын

I agree with your definition of conversational pace, however i also think most people either don’t define it that way or use a broad enough definition that allows them to run their easy pace faster while lying to themselves that they actually are in Z2. I have found that for the vast majority of us amateurs, there’s only a fraction of a percentage that can run 45 minutes or more at an 8:15 pace per mile or faster and still be in zone 2. Back when I was a 3 hour marathoner, I was a 9:15/mile Z2 pace, and I had people all the time tell me they were doing polarized training and doing their easy day pace at 8:00 per mile. Translation? I think there is an incredibly high ceiling for amateurs when it comes to improvement across all distances because we are almost all doing the easy days too fast and not reaping the benefits of those physiological adaptations. The future is bright.

Z2 feels too slow i just can't

When Huberman gets on, it’s time to get off.

I feel I’ve fallen into a Z2 death spiral. I could manage slow (4:47/km-5:20/km) runs 4 years ago, got my pb 40:10 in a 10km at maybe 85/90% effort, felt very strong at the end. I’ve increased fitness in other areas become a good swimmer etc. running has suffered a bit and now I feel my max aerobic function is 147. It really feels like I can’t get the hr low as I used to. I keep thinking maybey threshold has increased because at 147 I really do feel comfortable as I did a few years ago at 137bpm. There must be another way to test. So I know for sure if I’ve become better or just getting unfit 🥹🥹

@JohnHarryShaun

6 ай бұрын

Actually I’ve just confirmed my suspicions, less mileage, lower performance I’ve just lost fitness 😢

Sage, one thing I need help with. I am using your Advanced 50M to 100k training plan. My race is 50M and ~ 7500 ft of vert (lots of short steep hills instead of long climbs). Should I be doing the workouts on flat ground or try to be doing them on similar trails? I am currently doing half my easy runs and my LR on trails, but was not sure about the workouts. Thanks!

@Vo2maxProductions

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for your support! I'd consult the Training Guide that comes with your plan for more detailed directions. Generally most easy runs and Tempo or Fartlek workouts can be "more flat" but the key is that the Long Runs are done with a proportional amount of vert. (considering the distance) compared to your race. Also note later on in the plan there are some specific high intensity "Hill Repeat workouts" in there. You could do a few hill strides and a few of those other workouts on some rolling trails/terrain as well. Generally don't worry about l climbing too much or too hard on your "Easy Days" though...some the big efforts and climbing for Long Runs. Good luck

@MGrothendick

6 ай бұрын

@@Vo2maxProductions Thank you! I appreciate the response