According to the Piper Archer III (PA-28-181) manual you lose a whole 3 kts by removing the wheel pants. Frankly, gaining 3 kts isn't worth the extra weight and the loss of access to the tires, brakes, etc. I'm one of those people who think that the aircraft looks better with the wheel pants, but not better enough to outweigh the disadvantages.

Another pro and con: Pro: Those dings on the front of your wheel pants mean the wheel pants have protected the wheel and brake hardware from getting hit by something... maybe rocks. That means possibly less damage to the more expensive parts of the plane. Con: The wheel pants are bigger than wheels alone. I have tripped over them a few times whereas I have never tripped over the wheel on a plane that does not have wheel pants..

@DanielF601

3 жыл бұрын

Agree with your Con, Will. A 152 is awkward enough already. The wheel pants (aren't they called Spats?) are freakin' inconvenient and annoying when moving to and from the aircraft.

More “beer in the hanger” videos please. Love it!

@gavinlarue5638

3 жыл бұрын

AGREED!

Something I recently discovered the hard way is when taking off of a runway that has melting snow or ice, it quickly refreezes inside the pant adding weight and other problems.

@kneedeepsnow16

2 жыл бұрын

Dude‼️ exactly... never dawned me.... Alaska‼️🥶 Great Point, im so sad I didn’t think of that🥶🍪🍪🍪

“I can’t say I haven’t thought about it” 😂 Haven’t we all?

@hempelcx

4 жыл бұрын

Curious how that would work with the front fork... Bush tires normally go on tail draggers.

@niklaspilot

4 жыл бұрын

i.b. hemp check out Josh’s Alaska series. That 172 has some bush tyres fitted

@scalymonster3052

4 жыл бұрын

Added 26 inch bushwheels to my 182Q after removing the wheel pants. I love em’. Lost about 2Kts in cruise with the bushwheels, but gravel runways are softer, plane sits up higher a little further away from grass on the runways. Looks cool too 😉

Me: I've never watched a video from this guy, I wonder if I can watch his videos. You: Cracks a beer within the first minute. Me: Okay. I guess we're best friends now.

@sakumisan

4 жыл бұрын

As long as its 8 hours bottle to throttle, but that's just the minimum.

@haulperrel2547

3 жыл бұрын

>mfw that was an o'douhls

"Potato with butter on top" cracked me up. :)

Hey. Thanks for making these videos. You really keep me motivated to get my PPL and go fly! I'm on my 20' hour atm, and are really looking forward to fly with my family/friends. Please keep making flying videos, they are really amazing!

You nailed it on the visibility of the landing gear. Small problems become big problems when they go undetected and uncorrected. In order for a wheel pant to be truly effective, it covers several critical systems. Up here in Alaska, we often install mud flaps though, which is a practical solution to dents, dings, and corrosion encouraging mud on the lower wing, flaps, and even the tail. Great video, I always enjoy your videography. I enjoyed your Alaska series immensely, it's my back yard and you flew all around and even over us on your trip. The scenery here never gets old though, and no matter how often I've seen it for myself, I enjoy seeing outsider's perspectives, views, and reactions to our awesome state. Thanks again, good video!

Nothing like some good brew and simple hanger talk 👍🏼

@redheron

4 жыл бұрын

And I’m with you... NO PANTS!

I save weight and always remove my pants while flying!

@MikeBrown-ex9nh

4 жыл бұрын

Hopefully not on the airlines.

@inglewoodwhb

4 жыл бұрын

@@MikeBrown-ex9nh I recall a captain I once flew with told me that he and his female FO once had an empty repositioning flight and they dared each other to fly it in their undies.

@joshstanleymc

4 жыл бұрын

ha made me smile ! 😀

@e36s50b30

4 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@trueblueflying

4 жыл бұрын

homertalk I always take them off to save weight, they are in the baggage compartment if I need them.

Hey Josh! Been watching your videos since you were "Mr. Aviation" years ago! I finally got my first logged flight hour out at KBAZ earlier this week even though I've had flights in a RV7 and a T38. I'm headed off to Air Force pilot training in the coming month so I'm just trying to get ahead. Your videos are very inspiring and a ton of fun to watch! It's crazy to think that you live not more than an hour away too. Keep up the good work!

"Why did the plane get arrested for indecent exposure?" Because he took off his wheel pants

@FlyingJournalism

4 жыл бұрын

@callum wilkinson plus he sprayed oil ALL over the tarmac

@DustinDawind

4 жыл бұрын

This joke is wheely bad. Just plane terrible.

@gamingsquad3684

3 жыл бұрын

Oh gosh these unfunny jokes

Good to see you are Normal and enjoy a beer from time to time, Josh!!!

Snow and ice in WI -- We remove pants in the winter as to avoid slush and ice accumulating inside the pant causing damage. PA 28-235.

@75Seneca2

4 жыл бұрын

We do the same in Manitoba. But we like the look so throw them back on in late spring!

@gibbeys

4 жыл бұрын

Ditto...177B

@monacosfranz4202

4 жыл бұрын

Same here. C182T

@rammstein1903

4 жыл бұрын

Was thinking the same thing for 172N

@dalgrim

4 жыл бұрын

We do the same on our PA-28-180, mains come off at the first snow and stay off until spring.

I was wonder why you had never put the pants back on after painting 80991. After your explanation, pro's and con's, now I know and I fully agree with your decision! Keep up the great work and fantastic videos!

No matter if it's aviation related or pertains to life in general whenever one wants to have fun it always includes removing the pants.

You keep me motivated. Keep making videos. Never stop!

Love the videos! Keep up the work josh!

Great video! Love this format of video from time to time!

I love that you set up multiple cameras to talk to just for a simple talking to the camera video. Thanks for your work, Josh!

That beer looks like a Spotted Cow if I've ever had one ;) Freshly made in my home state of Wisconsin!

@alanrossjohnson

4 жыл бұрын

I caught that right away too!

@donnieboyette2216

4 жыл бұрын

One of the reasons I go to Oshkosh from NC!

@IsaacGarcia-

4 жыл бұрын

It’s a lovely drive from Chicago 😊😊.

@WiredForFlight

4 жыл бұрын

Have a few in my fridge now. (Than again I live in WI so it’s the law)

@wilzboyz

4 жыл бұрын

Also grab Karben4 Fantasy Factory ! Out of Madison WI (KMSN) with brewery within 0.5mi of the airport.

You needed an excuse to have a beer. Good decision lol

I can relate to this video ! I had a 172 in the late 80’s, that we wound up removing the pants for a time for repair. After reinstalling them, I always wished I had just just left them off. But, unlike most, I actually like the look of “no wheel pants”, not to mention the pants hide so much, that really needs to be visible. Great video Josh ! BTW - A friend removed wheel pants from his 152 Areobat and put really nice polished aluminum wheels on all around. Looked great !

Been waiting for this for a long time. Looks better with them on in my opinion, but I see the perks of leaving off. Thanks Josh!

Fun, informative video, Josh. Have been flying various Cessnas (both fixed and retractable) since 1981, including instructing for a number of years. The biggest reason I prefer no pants is definitely the (in)ability to fully inspect everything around the wheel/tire. Always feels like I need to take a second or deeper look, but there's not way to do it... Fly safe everyone.

I spy a Spotted Cow being consumed. There is no finer beer on Earth!

I had a 140A back in the 70's and those slippers were nothing but a pain. 1 out of 10 flights were on paved runways. I flew out of our local grass strip airport mostly to other grass/dirt/gravel strips. It was a constant job making sure they were clean internally and a pain inspecting the gear. One year when I was having the annual done by our local field mechanic I asked him to just take the damn things off. He explained to me that wasn't a good idea because the plane had fabric wings and more than looks they worked as debris flaps to keep anything from flying up off the wheels and impacting the wing or any control surfaces, especially because it was a tail dragger and more of the wing surface was exposed to potential debris. That plane was built during the days that most fields were just that fields and was fairly high performance, including flaps, for it's purpose at the time as opposed to something like Cubs or T-Crafts. I wonder if they were originally a safety feature but as time went on became a cosmetic feature, especially to identify with Cessna, that was no longer required but just made the planes look good like nice looking wheels on a new car.

Hey! Great video! I am moving down to Texas this summer and thought maybe you could make a video about Texas aviation, the community, and what it means to you. Keep up the great work!

Thanks so much for this video, I’m considering buying a new aircraft soon & was wondering whether or not to tick the options box for wheel pants... this helped make up my mind!

Really good content! I enjoyed this format.

That bottle opener is wicked! Now I wish I had one, or two or fifty! 🤔 You should totally fit N80991 with bush tires! 😀👍

@Newberntrains

4 жыл бұрын

Unless your always flying into grass or gravel pavement is very unkind to those and chews up the tires and for 1200 for a good bush wheel yeah

@james1795

4 жыл бұрын

"totally fit with bush tires"? As opposed to maybe one or two tires?

Keep up the good work - from way “down under” at Ballarat in Victoria, Australia. At our Aero Club flying school, we have taken the wheel pants off the ab initio trainers - basically for the reasons you have espoused; teaching new pilots to check brakes, tires, tire pressures; to be able to handle short field landings and take-offs, gravel and grass runways, etc. The Piper Warrior still has its pants - but they are fixed; and we have left them on the C172SP - but it is used for pre PPL navs, PIFR and IFR training and fly-aways. We must agree - according to our measurements, wheel pants are worth at best 5 knots - but for 6kgs = 13 lbs on the smaller aircraft, and 9kgs = 20 lbs on the 4-seaters. Love the “beer o’clock” talk - but gotta keep that MINIMUM 8 hours from bottle to throttle!

In 84 when I had my primary training in 172s at KTOA..i recall the FBO had about 7 skyhawks from a 79..a 84 and the rest 80/81 models...none had pants..my instructor showed me a storage room where boxes of them where stored and said wheel pants on a trainer with the frequency of tire and brake changes..tire pressure checks..students using them as steps etc..made it far easier to leave them off...I've owned a cpl skyhawks and I agree...maybe 3 to (on a good day) 5 knots faster in cruise with pants..

Great and practical episode! Keep these coming and mixed in with your flights!!! I just put pants on my 172M and saw about 3 knots difference in speed in similar conditions. Like you, I do a fair bit of grass ops and am a little concerned, but figure on trying it out and seeing. As I see it, 3 knots on a 4 hour flight is negligible.....on a trip from Texas to Osh and back, maybe that saves you a bit....does it add up in the long run? Probably not.

Josh I totally agree with you! My 172 currently has wheel pants and they're probably coming off at next annual. It drives me crazy trying to air up a tire and you really don't get a good look at everything during preflight. Nice video!!

I took them off my 150M 2 years ago and have zero regrets. For me it was a no-brainer, and for exactly the reasons you highlighted here. On a 150, they add 1-2 knots of airspeed max, at a cost of 18 lbs gross weight with pants, fairings, and mounting brackets. That's 3 gallons of gas I was leaving on the ground just to gain 1-2 knots of speed. The Skyhawk I trained in didn't have them, and I hated not being able to see the brakes & calipers, and especially the condition of the tire treads and sidewalls, like I could on the Skyhawk during preflight.

Good commentary. And big points for using the clip from McClintock!

Plane: Where are my pants 😊

@RobertForslund

4 жыл бұрын

Or, it might even go "Whee, let us go streaking down the taxiway!" 😁

@EdwinCristobal

4 жыл бұрын

Everything looks better without pants... wait...

@Thaddeus.N

4 жыл бұрын

Plane: everyone can see my gear.

@flyer16612

4 жыл бұрын

Tango just made my entire evening 😂

@zeppzeus

4 жыл бұрын

Piper Cherokee: COME HERE BABY

As director of maintenance for the Oregon State Flying with 3 C-172's, we have removed all of the the wheel pants so that student pilots can learn to see and inspect for tire/brake wear. We also save about 1.5 hours of labor every 100 hours with our A&P's by not having to take them off and putting them back on for inspections. When you have an airplane flying 600 hours a year that savings adds up fast. I can also point out to the CFI's that are allowing their students to brake to hard and making flat spots on new tires, or that they are side loading when landing.

You probably don't worry about this in Texas but farther north, you have to take the pants off in the winter because they can collect snow and slush during taxi, then freeze once airborne. Could make for an exciting landing

Wheel fairings collect dirt and muck when operating from dirt airstrips which add more weight to the aircraft.

@stunna7807

4 жыл бұрын

They stop wet runway spray from coating the underside of the wing, strut, nose etc. It’s basically an aerodynamic mud flap

@arthurbrumagem3844

2 жыл бұрын

Try washing them once in awhile

Agreed! Weight loss, maintenance/safety, less damage.

We removed the wheel pants off of our Tiger last year during our annual inspection for the same reasons you did... well, except we didn't have a paint job done. It was a pain in the arse to put air in the tires, do any brake work, etc. And, for some reason, we had a string of flat tires within a six month period thanks to FOD that we had to deal with. So, the decision was made to take them off. And I am glad we did. Our cruise speed is down about 6 knots and we gained about 27 lbs in useful load. She still flies like a champ.

Dang Josh. You covered that well. Bonus points for the view of the awesome Texas sky at dusk. Now I suddenly have an urge to grab a cold beer.

3 mph on full tanks could mean the difference of making your destination non stop or not. Depending on tank size (~39 gal) and fuel burn (~8 gal/hr) you get ~15 extra miles with wheel pants. Multiply that 15 by how ever many stops you need to make for a long flight and it could be significant, especially if you are flying over ocean or other terrain where you wouldn't want to make an unscheduled landing if your fuel ran out.

More Hanger Chats with Josh please :D

Loved this video Josh. Can you do a video on performance planning? For example planning and flying a given power percentage based on a given pressure altitude and temperature. Best economy and best power... stuff like that.

You have a beautiful Skyhawk. I love the paint job. My favorite color is blue also. Wheel pants are nice, but you make good arguments for keeping them off.

I have a 1967 C-182 Skylane and I took them off because when I bought the plane it only had two. One on each main gear nothing on the nose. I lost about the same on speed that you said about 1 to 2 knots. I am from North Dakota and the wind here will change your speed more than the wheel pants will. Like your videos. Keep up the great work.

I agree about 3kts. That’s what I see on my M model 172. Correct on work of installing and removing, also the brake fairings. I’m in northern Michigan and I pick what days I use the plane in the winter with the pants on. But I think the plane looks better with a matched paint job on them. Great video.

Love the vids bro.

Last time I had to add air to the tires in my SR22, after fighting for what must have been half an hour to get everything lined up through that little access hole on the first one and still not getting it finished, I just removed the wheel pants to add the air. Hey, 15 screws with a cordless screwdriver, for each, not too bad, took about an hour for all three off and back on. Definitely would be a lot easier without the pants. A 172, fine without pants, but on a Cirrus -- I want the pants installed. BTW, that's a nice paint job on your 172. And, another great informative video from a talented pilot and entertaining speaker.

Initially, I thought the Cessna was missing something without the wheel pants, but it actually makes the aircraft look bigger. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

thanks for your videos, from an old retired pilot. back when, grass strip and winter (snow), wheel pants became a big slush scoop. The flight school where i taught, the 150s and 172s had the pants removed during the winter so cleaning the brakes would be much easier.

I’m liking the tips and topic discussions.

I learned more from this than I expected. Thanks!

Great video and informative, especially the pros and cons...

Hey. That's a Spotted Cow! Josh, did you smuggle that back from EAA?? 🤣🐄🍻

What a Awesome Gift from Chris!!!

Another informative video. Thank you.

Love the old pics.

Heyyy!! Peep that spotted cow at the beginning there! Gotta comeback up to Wisconsin to stock back up! Especially back to oshkosh!

Very informative, thanks!

Great video as always. Could you do a video with some basic tips, simple maintenance, and "how-tos" for new owners? Stuff you wished you knew before you got 80991 back to the hangar.

Noticed a Spotted Cow beer....only in Wisconsin, must be an Oshkosh souvenir haha

@bmgarrity

4 жыл бұрын

Dinger Mike I thought the same thing.

@DylanMunce

4 жыл бұрын

Yep. That caught my eye too. Best beer out there

@ericsundell9978

4 жыл бұрын

Either that or he lives in WI, or close to. They don't sell outside Wisco.

@rammstein1903

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah I didn’t think new glarus brewing sold outside of our state

@brojaracing

4 жыл бұрын

@@ericsundell9978 he is down in Texas but he and his father come up to AirVenture every year

Helpful, thanks!

Reduced drag from wheel pants is also gonna improve your total flight time (slightly). Reduced drag means you are going to be at a slightly lower throttle/rpm to fly at a given speed, so you get slightly better fuel burn at a given flight condition. That said, if the drag is only enough to barely change your top-end speed, the throttle/rpm/fuel burn rate change will probably be barely noticeable at cruise, if you notice it at all. The faster you fly, the more benefit you'll get.

Terrific bottle opener gift! I wouldn't mind one my self for the hanger.As for wheel pants, it dose help with streamlining the landing gear,especially for slicker air frames (e.g DA 40) . I agree that for accessing the wheels for servicing,it's much easier without them.

I use to be in the pro wheel pants club. Had them on my Cherokee and loved them, but was always a bit nervous landing on grass fields, especially here in Florida where grass grows 1 inch a day in the summer. Recently I was renting a Cessna 152 and I had an engine failure on a cross country flight. After making an emergency landing, I discovered a new use for wheels without wheel pants. The left wheel made a perfect seat for me to sit on in the shade of the wing while I was waiting for help to arrive..

25 year old pilot just south of you in San Antonio. We took our pants off our 182... living in Texas with dirt strips it just seems to make more sense. Have also thought about increasing tire ply or going full bush tires as well🤷🏻‍♂️ appreciate your channel, hope to see you in the sky!

I can't recall flying any Cessna with wheel pants. Maybe the 182 I did my mountain checkout in. I like being able to see the brakes, bolts, etc. during preflight.

I’m with you on this one. I have a 152 and weight is everything! It removed 20lbs with the metal plates and bolts. And I like to see the tires! Looks better!!

My C172S POH says to reduce TAS by 2Kts without Speed Fairings in all conditions for what it's worth.

Great vid. Answered the wheel pant question. If your fixed plane goes less then 150mph, don't need. Above 150mph, probably helps plus usable load is not a problem.

For 12 years my father has had a 46' Cessna 140 and after he bough her we found some original wheel pants. At 85-90 knots I really don't think they do anything but it adds to that classic aircraft look.

Nice video, good explanation! I have my C172 in the sim without wheel pants :)

Got a 182 with britches, love the way it looks but a pain to service tires.

that was a cool bottle opener lol

@Karuiko

4 жыл бұрын

Shame he didn't mount it on the engine.

Great video!

Spotted Cow! On Wisconsin!! Great video.

I fly a 1946 PA-12 on 31" tires. "Shucks, sodbuster, we don't hardly wear no pants 'round here!"

Interesting thoughts. I am looking to purchase a C-172 and have been considering if I want wheel pants or not. Thanks for this!

The biggest advantage is looks and how well they protect the tail from rocks if flying on gravel

I took off in a glider with a shrouded mainwheel. As we climbed out behind the tug I could smell burning. That was very puzzling. I immediately returned and ,after pulling the aircraft off the field I discovered heavily impacted dead grass jammed in the wheel shroud. It took the rest of the day to pull all of this grass out of the shroud because I would have had to pull the aircraft to pieces to remove it . Back in 1963 I was in an emergency landing in a 172 and the field chosen to land in was extensively waterlogged. If we had wheel pants I’m sure that we would have flipped over because of the depth of the mud. Cheers from Downunder👍🇦🇺🇺🇸😷😷😷

when you’ve had one beer and feel like starting a fight...

So basically the difference between Republic maintained Y-Wings and Rebel “maintained” Y-Wings. Got it

it,s almost 3 gallon of fuel , and you are spot on 2 to 3 knots on a good day , even if you fly long cross country leg the saving is negligible the useful weight is more valuable in my mined , keep up the good work Josh and thanks for sharing .

Good to know ;) amazing video

Hi Josh, at least two advantages are they protect the tail from rocks thrown up from the tyres on gravel strips and when operating from wet muddy strips they keep under the wing clean from mud. Two cons are they can fill up with freshly cut grass and you can get debris caught between the Tyre and the scraper which can jam up the wheel. Personally I prefer the panties look over the naked tyres. Nothing like a little mystery and anticipation looking there!

I love the look of them and I do believe they give more speed on my 182. They sure make it tough to air the tires!

Excellent discussion of the topic! I’ve often wondered why you didn’t have them on N80991 and have debated the pros and cons of keeping then on my 172M as well. When you removed them, I assume a new weight and balance was required? Did you re-weigh the plane or just do the calculations?

Nice video. I was actually wondering why you’re not putting the wheelpants back on. I agree thought that it’s not worth the money if it comes out of your own pocket 😉 We operate a C182T out of a grass strip and we have the wheelpants on in the summer and take the mains of in the winter due to the ice and snow. Otherwise the slush freezes in the wheel pants and locks the wheels. I would like to have more videos like this. Very interesting to get some insights.

Place a box under bottle opener to catch bottle caps. Category: Aviation Safety: F O D

I have a Piper Warrior and keep wheel pants on the mains. They weigh around 3lbs each. Without them I found the underside of the wings just get slapped with crap kicked up by the mains. It has made it a lot easier to keep the underside of the wings clean. Not a problem with high wings to be sure.

I was working on my PPL for 3 years at 2 different flight schools and the first school I was at none of the skyhawks had pants and then my second school did and working with them to see the tires and breaks for preflight sucked. So now with my PPL I am a proud member of the "nopants" team

Informative video

Personally I don't like Wheel Pants, I think airplanes look better without them. I don't think you mentioned what I thought was the main reason to have them on, and that is to protect the aircraft from mud and water splashing from the ground, up to the under wing areas, fuselage and side windows, specially on gravel/dirt runways, when they are wet. I like your airplane, it´s nice one. 😊👍🏼

Did you ever finish teaching Brooke how to fly a plane and get her license or did you two go separate ways? I would love to see you with more students in the cockpit as well as more trips around the USA and Canada!

Good Point - in the South you did not mention mud. It will cake and add weight. In the North there is slush and snow. It will lock the wheels and add weight. Wheel pants in winter. You have to do a touch and go. You tap the wheels on the runway to break the ice and check wheel rotation. Then fly a circuit before full stop. Flying schools up here remove the pants.