UPDATE: They've just announced that this wheel cover idea is abandoned. 😬

@Atlas-gz9tk

12 күн бұрын

Class

@musculusiv4172

Күн бұрын

Good

Those Wheel Covers & Sauber Pit Crew: A Match Made in Hell!

@night756

21 күн бұрын

Well for now they made some improvements for their pit stops and for now it's 2.7 seconds , not particularly good but it's better than in the 3 early races

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Nightmare fuel for Hulk

@night756

21 күн бұрын

@@TommoOnKZread Absolutely 🤣

@CreamAle

21 күн бұрын

Oh God I had even thought about pitstops and how that mess would be.

@night756

21 күн бұрын

@@CreamAle Well that will depend if they will reduce them to at least 2.3 seconds, if they can do that in the upcoming races, then awesome , one problem solved. If they will keep having 3 second pit stops then they will not get anything this year (apart the fact that they got Hulkenberg)

I mean we're not going to really see them in heavy rain. So long as they're not equipped for every race.

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Yeah I'm not convinced they'll even be that glaringly obvious at racing speeds.

@jonathankfouri3431

21 күн бұрын

Yea this has been my main confusion with the annoyance with them. When do we even see the wheels through the rain?

@jonathankfouri3431

21 күн бұрын

Yea this has been my main confusion with the public annoyance. When have we ever really seen the wheels in the rain?

Spa 21 left a huge scar that any solution to keep racing in the rain is a huge welcome

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Indeed, and with increasingly freak weather that could well happen at any race.

If it means more racing in the rain safely, than waiting for it to dry up then it’ll be worth it.

@batuhan4002

21 күн бұрын

True someone with brain💪🏻

@Mike.W.Dasher

21 күн бұрын

Yeah, I mean, I still find the Halo to be ugly, but I'm glad it's there.

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

That's all that ACTUALLY matters at the end of the day.

Devils advocate, seriously how often will we actually notice them when the cars are at speed and racing each other. It’s the same as how the Halo has blended into things. Hell it will likely be even more unnoticeable as they are against the tire and not the background of the car. Also the first gen Insight is a good looking car fight me.

@ianfaris4806

21 күн бұрын

Real Devils advocate, on rain days only bring out cars from the 60s and see who lives.

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

You could be right Axle!

1:51 Paint them yellow and we've got Noddy's car.

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Up the Nods 🔥

@THExAndrewxO

21 күн бұрын

Nothing like jumping from a Law to Tommo video to see this in comments- keep it up guys looking forward to the weekend!

@bartekkko

21 күн бұрын

I'm not British but I was reminded about the character recently, tried to search for him as "Nobby". Uh, make of that what you will

@LuminalSpoon

20 күн бұрын

What is this? A crossover episode?

@feelincrispy7053

9 күн бұрын

To be fair, noddy could steer. Outran plod a few times no worries

Concept. Concept. They are concepts. They are testing potential designs. C O N C E P T S.

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

S T P E C N O C

@Wizzkidwas

20 күн бұрын

@@TommoOnKZread Hot damn the one time I make an unserious comment lmao

The easiest way to answer this question - how many times have people said: "It's a shame that they've red flagged for 3 hours because of the rain but at least the wheel covers look good!"

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

It'so facto.

WHAT'RE THOOOOOOOOSE

@gameofender4463

21 күн бұрын

Maybe one of the only ways to ensure we get more wet racing and in a way that’s safe for the drivers.

@RSG_TheMonster

21 күн бұрын

I haven't heard that joke since Black Panther (2018)

@Hthewood

21 күн бұрын

Crocks

@Hthewood

21 күн бұрын

Crocks

@Oodles67

21 күн бұрын

The 2nd one looks like the cover on a wheel balancing machine in a tyre shop

My idea is to have them as attachments for the rain. Rain comes along, BOX BOX, inters on, rain guard on, off you go. Rain ends and the slicks are the faster option, come in, take it off, take the inters off and put on slicks and leave. It is definitely a longer pitstop which should play into the strategy nicely.

Ngl if they go the Red Bull X2010 route these covers could look good, reduce spray _AND_ add aero to the car, they don't look that bad right now but integrate them into the package and we could have a new era of sleeker looking race cars

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

I could definitely see F1 gradually moving in that direction, with time

They are ao worried about the wheels but its way more about the diffuser so if they don't touch that then...

@rexthewolf3149

21 күн бұрын

Problem is you can’t mess with the diffuser with out messing with the areo.

@d.k.n4803

21 күн бұрын

@@rexthewolf3149 thus rendering the wheel covers useless...

@luizansounds

21 күн бұрын

I mean, they could try regulating the difusor to make the upwards spray regulated, maybe make it open up more to the sides, or at least make an attachment to the difusor that will change the difusor shape and etc

@harry4454

21 күн бұрын

@@d.k.n4803even if it’s a reduction by 10% it’s better than nothing

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

I do wonder what the exact split is

I reckon the people kicking up the biggest stink over these are also the ones who complain loudest when rain stops play, and also the ones who were shouting loudest for increased ground effect aero when following became harder.

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Facts 😅

Thanks Tommo ‼️ I've been a racing fan for 40 years+. Inclement weather is an unfortunate byproduct of racing in general.. The wheel covers were an admirable attempt to at least research the issue. It is what it is. 👍👍🏁

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Cheers Jeff!

Worth noting that even though Fiorano is a private track, it's very visible from the road. There's a bridge right next to the track on a public road.

the one thing that could fix the issue of drivers not being able to see is called rolling starts in the rain and like said multiple times by martin brundle they are the best drivers in the world they can handle it. Another thing that is just another problem is the straight up almost refusal of teams to use the extreme wet tire, we wouldn't have this issue if they just used that tire even if its bad it still works.

@tainmere

21 күн бұрын

They can and already do rolling starts, but rolling starts won’t remove the spray. E.g. if you think of spa, how does a rolling start remove spray at the end of the kemmel straight? Re the wet tires, as Tommo mentioned in the video, at the point where wet tires become viable the spray becomes too unsafe to race, which is further exasperated by the high displacement of the wet tires. E.g. at Monaco 2022 both a rolling start and wet tires were used, so this is something that already exists but the spray is still a problem.

@Tacoplane91

21 күн бұрын

@@tainmere yah the spray is a problem that’s true but again I feel that they are “the best drivers in the world” and that f1 used to race in heavy rain but now are way more cautious like with Monaco 22. and I feel that if they are claiming that these are the best drivers in the world they can handle spray like at the start of Japan 22 when there was so much spray but everyone was wise enough not to have a huge crash (vetted is the exception)

@db3740

20 күн бұрын

@@Tacoplane91 i don't think you watched that race if your saying Vettel was the exception there WAS a big crash, Sainz went into a wall by himself and we almost had another fatal incident like Bianchi's when Gasly was driving blind even when he was 20 or seconds behind the pack going under safety car. F1 has done rolling starts before but it doesn't change the fact that spray is going to be kicked up at all points of the track hindering visibility and the chance to see closer racing

@Tacoplane91

20 күн бұрын

@@db3740 yeah but the reason why he spun is because he aqua planed off because the teams didn't wan't to put on wet tires. but i do agree that in the end the right desion was made because even without spray it was impossible to see. and also at least it is racing not just waiting around for 2 hours then getting a 40 minute race

How about this: You make it so that these wheel covers can be put on or taken off the car during the race, like a front wing. Then, when the track is declared wet, all teams must put on the wheel covers during their next stop if they change onto inters or wets. Once it's dry, the covers can then be dismounted again. I think that would be a fair compromise, right?

@Slimmeyy

21 күн бұрын

That's already the idea, no?

@peetjvv

21 күн бұрын

@@Slimmeyy yeah, from what I understand the idea is to stop the race at a certain level of rainfall in order for the teams to put on the covers

@PlayinFreak

20 күн бұрын

@@peetjvv But that would be a bit silly, considering that the goal should be that the race doesn't have to be stopped. If it was easily attachable like a front wing, the changes would only take about 10 seconds per car, which would be much better (even though double stacking would become almost impossible).

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

I wonder how easy it'd be to fit something that runs in such close proximity to the tyres themselves. Like, the tolerances are pretty tight.

@PlayinFreak

20 күн бұрын

@@TommoOnKZread Hmm, not sure. I think it is possible with the right design and materials, but then again I'm no expert myself. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. :p

Tommo math: GR: 95% is dry racing Tommo: I don’t know about that GR. Let’s say 10% of racing but only 1/2 of that is actually really wet. 😂 So not 95% dry but really it’s 5% wet. Got it.

24 F1 full wet races all year here we go!!!!!!!!! 🎉🎉

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Up the sprinklers

Rip Clutchgoneski giggling in the corner with the solution🤭🤭🤭

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

I seem to remeber people calling the Halo ugly when it was first introduced, and it turned out to be a critical piece of safety. The wheel covers, while unslightly, would improve a lot of the visability issues. Also, there have been many races where we have had to wait 2-3 extra hours for the race to be run even if the rain has let off and the track is basically ready to go, but we cant due to visability concerns.

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

Right n'all. Halo is a good case study.

Fair point! Great edit! Love your videos Tommo!

It is literally impossible to mitigate the spray in the ground effect era. These may reduce it, but not to any degree that effects the driver behind.

It's the floor and rear diffuser that causes the huge tail which blinds those behind, they basically act as a water cannon. The only way to reduce it would be to revert to pre-ground effect and simplify the floor and rear diffuser.

Engage Rally Mode when its raining too much. Everyone starts with a 5 second gap to the one in front and you get that delta subtracted from your race time in the end. Brilliant! /s

You know, it’s not just the tires that throw up water. I think the covers will be cancelled out from the ground effect. They wanted cars to rely more on the floor to generate the downforce, but the consequence of that is that the floor creates more suction hence throwing up more water. I’m not sure how F1 will figure it out, but you can say it’s a step. In what direction, I have no idea.

im all for the little bits (renders) that live right behind the bottom of the tire to block the water from being flung rather than a full cover

Is that a JPM hat hanging in the background? Hadn't noticed it before. Being a fan of Montoya and representing the last time Williams was truly creditable, I almost bought a hat with that design a few months ago but ultimately passed because the team's branding of that era is so bland.

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

It is indeed, good spot! Don't make them like they used to.

The wheel cover variant that has some holes on the sides to show the tires look like a blue garden hose was rolled into a circle. That's just about the only thing I can think of when I see that picture. So somehow I'll just put up with the black wheel cover that covers the whole thing, especially if it means we can see F1 cars comfortably racing in the rain again. It will be a wonder though how exactly pit stops work and how changeable conditions like Zandvoort 2023 would be handled, or maybe even how the wheel covers might be taken advantage of as another aero element to add downforce.

For me i feel improving the drainage systems of some of the well known tracks where weather is an issue should be of paramount importance. recognizing the areas where puddles form, could help reduce the impact of spray and help them in the technological advancements they make on the car

Two things that will solve this problem 1- Scrap Parc ferme if rain is forecasted, that way you adjust the set up of the car to decrease aquaplaning 2- rework the tires to produce less spray Wet weather racing is hard and dangerous nothing else we can do about it

They did say its pretty useless because the main issue is the floor so this won't really do much.

@jediporg1245

21 күн бұрын

Plus another part of the issue is visibility. When its wet enough for wet, the safety concern is often just visibility and spray is part of it for sure but having rain pelt you isn't great for knowing when to brake and turn in these hulking machines at high speeds with others doing the same who can't clearly see anything either

In formula e they had tyre covers in the gen 2 era more elevated and less restrictive but can't remember if they were effective in the rain since that was rare

I would like to see development that there would be some sort of structure on the inside of the tyre and that you could quickly add wheel guards in a pit stop. Maybe with some sort of latch system or couple of bolts that they could connect like the front wing does. Then it could be made mandatory to have them on if you use inter or wet tyres and then FIA wouldn't have too much problem with deciding at what point do the teams have to put them on. Also I have no idea how big of a difference it would make, but I would like them to still be at most from the middle of the wheel backwards so that it would leave large portion of it visible, since I don't see how much more it would help the spray if it was all the way over it. And please try to keep the front of the tyres open.

why not put a huge umbrella on the stage? can't imagine that being more expencive than develope a new tier system just to make sure its strong enough to resist the wind

I figured if the show must go on... I guess the wheel covers would deliver a better race.. right? So I guess we should have them.

Want to reduce the spray from tires in the rain ? Make the rain tires NARROWER ! Narrower tires don't heed to displace as much water at a given speed. Then, you have more pressure against the track per unit of surface. So, less aquaplaning and less spray. I know, that's NOT a perfect solution. But, it can be PART of a solution. Then, have some aerodynamic element to split the spray from the diffuser and send at least part of it sideways. Only have it in wet conditions. Sure that it'll reduce the downforce, but, less spray behind the car.

Trival pursuit to sponsor the open sided covers, filll in one whole with a colour cheese/pie.

When the halos were introduced they looked hideous, too. Now they're properly integrated into the design and are an essential part of it. Provided the desired effect of reduced spray is achieved I reckon the design will also evolve over time to be more pleasing to the eye.

I think we should actually use something like an infrared heads-up-display or some other kind of vision enhancement so that the cars and track limits can be visible regardless of atmospheric conditions. I think that's a more reliable solution.

How about just pull out a tent over the track when it rains? 😁

I would be fine with the drivers just doing a go kart race if they decide to not race on a spa 2021 type day

Speed Racer T-180 vibes.... If we ever get those in real life, racing might be incredibly interesting!

I personally think they're gonna have to bite the bullet and put something in the diffuser, likely attaching to the rear taillight/pit stop mount area. Let the teams design it for their own cars with a set budget separate from the big budget/CFD cap, and with very strict restrictions on what is/isn't allowed and how much spray is acceptable.

To be fair to the covers, the halo also had a lot of criticism against it when it got introduced, now we are surely all thankful that we got it. Maybe in 5 years we are thankful because they enabled more and better wet weather races.

They can't beat the spray as long as they have diffusers. Just think about how a diffuser works, it reduces air pressure, which atomizes the water underneath the car straight into the air

What about Infrared display inside the helmet, similar to F35 ✈

@TommoOnYoutube

20 күн бұрын

Ooooo, that sounds fun.

For people stuck on how ugly: Understand these are going to be used only during very wet situations and with all the spray and mist, you wont even be able to see them.

anyone else though of the cars from the speed racer movie when seeing the wheel covers? specifically the T-180 cars

why not apply them in dry races also? think they can prevent punctures

Some of the cars in the 2008 Speed Racer movie had wheel covers like these. They look kinda futuristic and i don't think they are ugly overall. Thier only for heavy rain anyway so its not biggie.

they look a bit silly but if it means more, safer racing, i'm all for it. my only concern is that the cars sending the spray up into the air is how they dry out the track so reducing that may mean the track stays wet for longer. but if it is the case of there's sufficient grip but too much spray, it should be fine

I think the solid-wall ones look fine

Doesn't more spray come out of the diffuser anyway? Also, are they gonna tweak the rules to mandate wet tires in certain conditions? If not even fewer people would use wet anyway. Last year in zandvoort. Ocon went with wet, which is the correct decision but is meaningless because someone crashed and throw the red flag. By then, you don't need the wet tires anymore

Use construction trucks MUDFLAPS and full body length rubber SKIRTS. Yeah, screw all the aero the car created to glue itself on the ground.

How on earth would a pit stop work, any idea if the covers are added on after the wheel or will it be both together? Chaos either way lol

why dont they just do open half shells that mounts to the wheel hub. Its not too intrusive, allows for fast tire changes, half the weight of the current prototype, blocks where a mass majority of the water comes up.

Add flaps behind the tires like trucks have.

Rubber sheet to cover the diffuser??

Is it impossible to make the defuser shoot the air down into the track?

They should make the wheel covers look like the ones on 1930's streamliners

Simple solution make the cars smaller and lighter so they don't need as much downforce just like they used to be before 2017 when the bigger 2014 reg cars could still race

My main gripe is the aero throws up spray probably as much as if not more than the tires so bruh

I am all for driver safety but I think driver safety has come a long long way and driving in the rain isn't as dangerous as it once was, Especially if you're going so slow to keep it on the track that you barely touch the wall anyway, You just drive slow, Try not to spin, Whoever finds grip (driver ability/car performance) and is able to go fastest wins, Even if the race is red flagged or is finished due to multiple stoppages and or time limit being reached I wouldn't mind, That's what F1 is all about, Drivers at the limit!!!

I'm Saying this with absolutely no Aerodynamic knowledge but could they potentially have slightly turned outwards tips on the end of the diffuser so that rather than air/water being thrown far upwards its thrown up and to either side of the car meaning it gets thrown off the track. Maybe a spec part that can clip on during pitstops which teams cannot alter & try to gain advantages from. I'm sure though that there are thousands of reasons as to why it wouldn't work 😅

I actually love the idea of removing downforce for wet weather races, I know it’s impossible but damn it would be entertaining to watch

@luizansounds

21 күн бұрын

Even Thicker tired. Or bigger rims with same thickness tires could help by making the floor less effective

F1 cars are SLOWLY turning into Speed Racer cars and I love it.

I’m somewhat indifferent; apart from the fact that if they enclose the wheels, the cars won’t be open-wheel anymore. I thought that was kind of the whole point

These are prototypes though. I think they'll look much better once properly developed, same as the halo.

We going back to the 1954 closed wheel F1 cars boys

Why is no one talking about the number 14 on the car?

If there is sufficient air flow for the brakes and tyres so that there is no overheating, and it keeps the water spray down then it is a good thing 🤔

How do they even fit onto the car

Everyone hated the Halo when it was first introduced but its proven its worth. So if these covers prove their worth by turning a wet race from a red flagged Belgium for example into a full points paying finish then its worth the hassle.

wouldn’t the wheel cover stopping the spray stop the water clearing, because the tyres take the water from the track and spray is up and off the track?

Speedway motorcycle rear wheel guard?

how would the pit stops work

Dont forget the grand prix days of Stirling Moss driving for Mercedes...... completely covered body of the Mercedes.

@shoestring-budget08

20 күн бұрын

Which is why FIA's classification is single seater

I actually like the solution they've tried, because the spray has always been an issue since the cars got wider in 2017. But now there's a compromise between good racing using ground effect cars and producing the spray from the diffuser. Robbing the diffuser of downforce in wet weather conditions is asking for a catastrophe to happen. 2007-08 f1 cars could race in the wet but those cars were very twitchy and in wet conditions, it takes a ton of skill to keep the cars on the track, and with everyone going off (Nurburgring 2007) it would just tell people that f1 can't work in the wet when it has in the past. It's definitely a cut and shut solution, but people who complain about how shit it is doesn't help either. 4 hour delay or ugly looking f1 cars that produce slightly less spray than no covers? Let you decide

well theres one solution...make the tyres slower ... remember last few seasons how the wet races have been boring compared to lets say Hockenheim 2019 or brazil 2016...these big tyres spray even more than before ..smaller tyres and less effective rain tyres should fix this ,like the good old days

Back in the 90s drivers used to drive in the wet...

I for one truly hope so

people said the halo was ugly too. I think we'll get used to the wheel covers

I feel like if it is wet that spray is insanely bad, then the racing would be slow anyways. Would these solutions be used in times that we red flag the race for now?

Ugly? Same thing everyone said about Halo😂. Bruh they are very good

Don't remind me of spa '21 still haunts my memory. But at least I got a 5% discount code to Lewis's merch..

I mean its just a proof of concept and testing.. It will change if the plans for it are moving ahead...

Not a big fan of F1 since Ferrari were winning every race with Schumacher at the wheel but here is a really radical idea, have a wet race car with greatly reduced spray issues (more inline with an earlier era) as well as the standard dry Main car (oh my God the cost implications, not really as these will not be 'The Winning Car' just a 'We have to get a car on track for the fans' so no real $ spent on it). Using old design rules that didn't have the spray issue & requiring them to all be a 'Fixed Spec Car' (100% identical) would let the fans see a race while giving drivers the chance to show their skills & teams save money on their main car as is it parked for a race & since a Spec Car there is no R&D costs, only repairs on it. Just a thought 🤔

@TheFalconerNZ

Күн бұрын

Another benefit would be that old F1 fans would see some of the old cars that they first saw as kids back on the track, cars driven by legends like Ayrton Senna, Niki Lauda, James Hunt, Nelson Piquet & Jackie Stewart.

I think one of the issues they need to get sorted is the time it takes to go back racing from a red flag condition. When a race is red flagged because of rain, assuming there is no trackside repair or recovery to be done, it should be possible to sit out a shower and go back racing. But as it is now, once the rain stops it takes them half an hour to get going again, and knowing that they take a long time to decide if it even stopped raining.

If it works properly then sure. But with wheel covers you'd need to apply them mid race safely. So would you have a red flag or something to apply them? And similar to remove them? I feel like that would destroy a lot of race strategy and excitement. I love the rain because when someone gets the pit stop right, it's massive.

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

I guess you'd have to red flag if the conditions are too wet anyway right? Then instead of the race never restarting, they restart with these bad boys on. 🤷‍♂️

@Pricelessmile

21 күн бұрын

​@@TommoOnKZreadThat's a fair point. But if they're going to red flag the race because it's raining too much, the whole time they waste going through the prep is just going to make the situation worse and by the time it's fitted it's likely to be too wet to race anyway, regardless of visibility. Like I said if it works well then it's good, I'd have to experience it first to have a proper opinion on it, just right now I don't really have a lot of faith in race control to make a good decision 😂

I wonder.. do we need this much down force? In early 2000s and 2010s we didn't have this much down force like in 2021 and this new era.. if we loose down force there wouldn't be much spray like in 2000s and wet weather racing would be back.. also it would require more driver skill to drive the car. Little shunt there is nothing thanks to better safety measures compared to then.

It's definitely 100m on a race weekend, Victorian government spends $100-$150m on the race each year

Could they not just put a cover a foot or so away from the end of floor that blocks spray from the floor going up?

So... No more open wheel? Reminds me of open top lemans prototypes.

Tbh I don't mind the concept at all, but will be extremely interested in how the FIA plans to tackle pitstops if the track dries up mid-race, and of course the diffuser blast... But for sure noone wants another Spa 21 😀

Albon just re-signed for Williams

The last time I heard the 'what are those' joke was in Black Panther

@TommoOnYoutube

21 күн бұрын

Iconic

would these wheel covers only be on the wet tyres or what?

@not_even_me5035

20 күн бұрын

Yeah the idea is that they'll only be used in conditions where the rain would get the race red flagged anyways

I wouldn't mind em if they actually worked