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That's a very honest and straight forward explanation of the whole Walk of Life story, and it was quite a story at the time. I am glad James has come back and been brave enough to put another E12 out there - and this time got the worlds best sport climber to verify a sport grade at least. Thank you.

It takes so much more to be humble and to face our own errors in the eyes. Every body gets wrong or says stupid things at times, not many people are able to recognize it. James is a great climber and it looks like he is an even better person!

Oh my god that fall was insane

I do think it's pretty important to point out that it was downgraded to an E9... that's still a world-class difficulty that only a handful of people are capable of completing, and Dave Macleod said as much.

Thanks for your honesty and humility, loads of respect!

Kudos to James for his honesty

we need the full podcast 🙏🏼. the video cams make it more interesting

The British trad grades are a mixture of climbing difficulty and quality of gear, but E11 I think would be extremely well protected 9a to almost impossible to protect 8b+ (maybe, though this grade range may be too broad). I have heard many climbers, such as Dave and James, have a hard time explaining the grading system exactly and much of this is you just kind of know when you do the climb. Tends to often include both the E grade and an alpha numeric to suggest climbing complexity and therefore gear quality and mental aspects. Is a curious one, for sure.

@aidanjohnson7571

5 ай бұрын

For some context, Lexicon is what I'd call quite runout and is said to be about 8b+ in difficulty. It's considerably less dangerous than a route like Indian Face, and so it stands to reason that the E11 grade could span to lower sport grades, perhaps 8a+ or so

@zacharylaschober

5 ай бұрын

@@aidanjohnson7571 thanks, meant this in reply to a question downstream which I apparently didn't actually reply to but also helps

Is trad grade based also on how dangerous something is also?

@bernhardlangers778

5 ай бұрын

Yes. There are extension to it as well. IIRC climbs with an X added to it include the risk of a deadly fall, if you were to peel off at the wrong place on the route.

@philleng480

3 ай бұрын

E grade definatly reflects the danger of the route. In USA they have X etc (not UK). So three components to the adjectival (E etc) grade. Hardest move (technical grade), how sustained (one hard move or lots?), and gear I.e danger. Those three elements give you the overall grade. I.e a well protected one English 5c move might only be E1. With a few 5c moves it might be E2, with a lot OR poor gear maybe E3, with poor gear and a lot E4, and zero gear I.e death potential E5. HXS is also used for ungradeably loose choss piles, that are abnormal and require special skills, kit, and nerve to go near.

Good perpective

gear route

are you grading things based on your own anatomy? im sorry but grades themselves are only subjecive to the person whos climbing. Im 6 foot 3 and i feel like what i can reach you probably cannot therefore grades dont make sense!

@UnleashedTraining101

4 ай бұрын

Based on population averages I believe. That’s why grading can never be fully determined by one climber. To get a legit grade, there needs to be a somewhat broad range of climbers grading it based on their ability. After a while there will be extremes along with patterns and trends.

Everyone talks about James' ego at the time, but what about Dave's? Nervous about this up and comer eclipsing him, so basically incites a mob to go and tar and feather him. I think that is the more shameful deed personally. Sure it may have been over graded, but the downgrade was perhaps equally exaggerated. On a side note, maybe use a grading system that actually conveys useful information? I find old school "Proper British Trad" to be one of the most toxic and elitist communities out there

@Bladesmobile

3 ай бұрын

Indeed. Well said

@gdgdgdgdgdgify

3 ай бұрын

Jumping to conclusions here. If anyone is interested read Dave's blog on the walk of life ascent, great example of giving cudis to James while trying to be honest about his opinion on the climb based on experience of other grades

@thomasyates3078

3 ай бұрын

The BMC system gives you loads of information. For example a an E10 4a would tell you it's an extremely easy climb, but if you fall you're dead, while an E10 7b tells you it's practically impossible, but so well protected you're basically 100% safe.

@c0n0rmurphy

3 ай бұрын

It's really not like that. Dave's justification of the downgrade and how he grades these routes has been explained quite clearly, even quite recently here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/dGFomrVwl6-2j6w.html His blog post is full of admiration of James. Just watch the video, or read the blog.

Yip, I remember this back in the day. The way this (then kid, more or less) was treated by the climbing community of the UK (which is quite tight knit at that elite level) was a real eye opener.

Ego

E12 to E9, ay. What's that for us sport folks? 9A+ to 8B?

@aidanjohnson7571

5 ай бұрын

Would be something like 9c to 9a. From the absolute hardest in the world to something hard but doable for top level climbers

@garvinnoah

5 ай бұрын

Well not necessarily.. the actual physical difficulties of the route definitely wouldn't be 9c. An E11 that's really well protected is probably like a 9a+ (5.15a-ish)? And maybe if it was super sketchy and hard to protect it's a much easier physical difficulty like 8b (5.13d-ish). And E9 if really well protected is probably around 8c (5.14b) but if it's really dangerous it could be 7c (5.12d)... Super confusing at first lol but it makes sense to me 🤷🏻‍♂️ @@aidanjohnson7571

@aidanjohnson7571

5 ай бұрын

@@garvinnoah I was giving an example of how big a downgrade it was in sport climbing terms. To have an E12 downgraded to E9 is like a sport climber having a 9c downgraded to 9a. I know how E-grades work - see some of my other comments in this thread. E11 is from roughly 8a+ to 9a roughly, though the routes that exist are 8b+ to 8c as no one wants to climb routes that are as dangerous as Indian Face but harder

@Nuttyirishman85

5 ай бұрын

No idea, I go by Yosemite scale. Horrible at conversions.

@vybz987

3 ай бұрын

James found another potential E12 recently and adam ondra did it and made a video where he called it 9a/9a+