Byzantines: n-word of the Eastern Rome

@vivekt.2038

Жыл бұрын

What's up my Byzantine!

@magicman3163

Жыл бұрын

Constantinople was original a Greek city called Byzantium and I think the citizens of the city were called Byzantines

@Steven-dt5nu

Жыл бұрын

@@vivekt.2038 😂

@pride2184

Жыл бұрын

@@magicman3163 byzantium wasnt called that for over millennium. So its really delusional to call yourself byzantines when you arent byzantines when the city is called constantinople even the ottomans called the romans what they were roman. Even called the city constantinople or konstanyinne something like that the city of constantine.

@mariuscatalin5982

Жыл бұрын

B

I don’t even use Eastern Roman Empire. I just use Roman Empire, because after the Fall of the West, there is no need to call them the Eastern Empire when there is no West

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

Very true, and I agree, after the 400s we must rightfully call the east what they called themselves, The Roman Empire

@joshuabixby2776

Жыл бұрын

The continuation of the roman empire were the frankish kings and descendents of Charlemagne. The Greeks in the est were referred to as the Greek empire by everyone but themselves. They were not roman. By all accounts of history. That is why we designate them byzantine.

@gazpacho2985

Жыл бұрын

Charlemagne has nothing to do with Rome, he was just a very powerful frank king.

@paulmayson3129

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuabixby2776 And how does that make them legitimate? The Medieval Roman Empire was nothing other than the continuation of the Ancient Roman Empire. The Frankish Empire was a different country, not the same state in any manner. They did not have Roman Citizenship, they did not have a Senate, they did not follow the Roman laws but the Frankish laws.

@joshuabixby2776

Жыл бұрын

@@gazpacho2985 exactly, now you get it. Byzantine had nothing to actually do with the tile roman empire but they were very strong Greeks. I posted a link in the comments explaining this more in detail kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZpyX26akhJi7Y5c.html

If you called them "Byzantines" They wouldn't understand you since they don't speak modern english

@TheBacknblack92

Жыл бұрын

Byzantium isnt a modern english word

@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBacknblack92 It´s actually the ancient name of Constantinople.

@FarmerSlayerFromTheEdoPeriod

Жыл бұрын

@@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944 They would be like: "Byzantium? It was Byzantion you dummy. And its Constantinople now"

@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944

Жыл бұрын

@@FarmerSlayerFromTheEdoPeriod I think they would know latinized form of Byzantion.

@pillshere5840

Жыл бұрын

​@@FarmerSlayerFromTheEdoPeriod Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople Been a long time gone, Constantinople Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlight night

God bless you man. This is my own personal crusade haha

@fransciscoeldrako8870

Жыл бұрын

You are not alone brother

@anthonydo9401

Жыл бұрын

Neither of you are

@juwebles4352

Жыл бұрын

Well except for the fact that the city was originally called Byzantine before Constantine renamed it, but I guess people just like to ignore that to act superior

@mondaysinsanity8193

Жыл бұрын

@@juwebles4352 byzantium sure still was never called the byzantine empire in contemporary. Even western europe called it "the greek kingdoms" but they themselves called themselves rome With roman laws roman art roman culture. The drastic difference people see is relating ceasers rome to the eastern roman empire of 1000ad plus but if you actually look at the direction rome was going easter rome right before the wests fall etc. You can see a continuous cultural shift even in the west that simply continues on untill we have the "drastic difference" of the 13th or so century.

@mondaysinsanity8193

Жыл бұрын

@@juwebles4352 its worth noting what we simply call "rome" is an atleast 2000 year old civilization and even then rome is really just an extension of greek civilization with beginnings of rome dating back atleast to macedonian empire with alexander the great and philip the ii. If you actually look it over holisticly and chronologically. It all shows very obvious trends and themes

CORRECTION : Ρωμαίοι (Romaioi) is pronounced romei (e pronounced like eh) , and from the 7th century onwards it was not used as a term but rather the word Ρωμιός (romios) for which to describe the greeks under the eastern roman empire which is different to the classical roman of Rome . Byzantines are the citizens of the ancient city of Byzantium that still kept its name along with Constantinople Nova Roma etc but only for the city , not the empire basically .

@DivineHellas

Жыл бұрын

It’s not complicated, they were Romans.

@juwebles4352

Жыл бұрын

THANK YOU, everyone likes to pretend that the people in that city wouldn’t have thought of themselves as Byzantines which they completely would’ve just ALONGSIDE thinking of themselves as Romans

@myrdraal2001

Жыл бұрын

Επιτέλους! Κι άλλο Ελληνοπαίδω!

@williamjordan5554

Жыл бұрын

@@DivineHellas who spoke Greek

@chad5531

Жыл бұрын

@@DivineHellas they weren't Romans they were greek but they called themselves Romans

For me it’s more of a convenience word. Without claiming that the eastern empire was not Roman, which is absolutely false, and that its people considered themselves Romans, the word Byzantine still has its utility: the question for me is, when do we draw the line between the “Roman” and the “Byzantine” empire. Like many scholars I believe the line lays between the VII and early VIII century, when the empire basically became Greek-speaking in its totality. Justinian’s empire is still to consider Roman, because him and many inhabitants still spoke latin, but by the time Heraclius took over the empire started being more and more Greek, with him adopting the title of basileus and reforming the provinces in the themata, and subsequently all Latin titles and names got a Greek variant. The Byzantine empire also differed from the Classical Roman Empire in religion: most of the time Rome was a pagan realm, before adopting Christianity in the IV century, but that’s virtually the moment when the empire split. So, in conclusion: I agree that the Byzantine empire is mostly overlooked and treated if it was a completely different state than the Roman Empire even if it maintained most of its institutions, laws and culture. But the term “Byzantine” is also useful to immediatly understand of what period of the empire you’re talking about, if either the classical one or the medieval one. I’m not against its usage, also because everyone who is minimally interested in Byzantine history should know that they were still de facto the Roman Empire so it’s not a big deal after all. It’s mostly for people who don’t know in my opinion.

@Adrian13235

Жыл бұрын

I believe the term eastern Roman empire fell off or should have fallen off when the Muslim Arabs the middle east leaving the empire with the Greek influenced bit

@constantineevansclark408

Жыл бұрын

By that time Byzantium was more Greek than Roman

@tylerellis9097

Жыл бұрын

Heraclius didn’t create the Theme system nor did he do anything that shifted the language from Latin to Greek Administratively. Yes he used Basileus but it wasn’t made the official title and doesn’t appear on Coinage or seals until 80 years after his death. Nor did Latin Lead seals and edicts given to the western provinces change to Greek Whereas Laws were already issued in Greek in the Eastern provinces by the Emperors as early as Leo II and Justinian issued the last portion of his Laws solely in Greek, commentating that the majority of his Empire Spoke Greek. Really you should be attributing all that to Leon Isaurian and the Administrative/religious changes he brought to the reduced Empire not Heraclius.

@andreaanaxandron9890

Жыл бұрын

@@tylerellis9097 I fear my memory has betrayed me, thank you for your correction. But I still think that under Heraclius the empire made an important step to becoming greek. But you're right, the thing had been more radical with Leo the Isaurian.

@MerkhVision

Жыл бұрын

@@constantineevansclark408 but here’s the thing… The Greeks WERE Roman! Roman was no longer an ethnicity and hadn’t been for a very long time, rather it was a _nationality_ and the Greeks were Roman citizens!

Even the islamic scholars call it rome then and now .

@infinitelink

Жыл бұрын

Only because Ottman's son needed a symbolic victory to cement legitimacy with his father's mercenary army. It didn't have to do with weird eastern claims to successorship to Rome. Hell, there's an actual traceable line through every lineage and system of line from Rome (both eastern and western) down till today, given the exclusivity of the aristocratic lineages. The heir apparent to the title of Emperor happens to be found through those traces... in the English Royal family. And they don't care to press or use that title given the destruction of the "Roman Rome" with the fall of the West. Eastern Rome was "Roman" ... "because it inherited the same institutions" like America and it's ancient judiciary institutions inherited from Brian is Brittania, or is with revival of the pre-Norman egalitarian/teutonic Anglo conceptions of citizenship the state found in England before the invasions... i.e. it's not. That said, in the English speaking west most people think of Eastern Rome as "Byzantium" not due to some European in the 16th century, but due to a scholar decades ago so used the term to avoid confusion with the Rome that people actually think of as "Rome" when the term was used: the city of Latin-speaking Romans with a militant/virtu culture that built an empire and sophisticated set of country balancing institutions that even survived the death of their Republic.

@romanexcellent5049

Жыл бұрын

​@@infinitelink I'm a Muslim and I'm a history enjoyer. While that first paragraph is right, us muslims have been calling byzantine "The Romans" since our religion was first revealed. Quran even addresses byzantine as The Romans which being a name of a whole chapter in the Quran.

@pickleinjuice1448

11 ай бұрын

@@infinitelinkctually no because In the Quran chapter 30(Surah Rum) it does use the term “Romans” to refer to the Byzantines. So it wasn’t political or anything. It’s in the Quran

@innosanto

8 ай бұрын

And call Greeks as Rum

@andresgalindo7682

8 ай бұрын

Islam destroyed the most beautiful empire in History. They will Burn in Hell for eternity !

Hell yeah. (I'm Italian, but these guys were the last Romans).

@Meirstein

Жыл бұрын

Mussolini was the last Roman.

@floridaball4896

Жыл бұрын

@@Meirstein No Mussolini was the last person who larped as a Roman

@DivineHellas

Жыл бұрын

@@Meirstein Moussilini was the last Germanic Barbarian there was nothing Roman about him lol

@TheShadowPerson.

Жыл бұрын

The holy Roman empire were the romans. Granted the title by the papacy, its actually legitimate claim to Rome unlike a circumstantial fall of a empire and it being left to be governed among greeks.

@tylerellis9097

Жыл бұрын

@@TheShadowPerson. Papacy had no claim. The Popes served the Emperor not the other way around. When Justinian Reconquered and Restored Roman rule over Rome he had Pope Vigilius arrested and shipped to Constantinople for disobeying his edicts. Constans II would do the same to Pope Martin. When Justinian tried the same to Pope Sergius and failed, Sergius immediately silenced any form of unrest against the emperor and apologized. Every Pope had to have approval from the Emperor in Constantinople upon being crowned for 220 years straight. What Legitimacy does the Pope have in crowning Charlemagne when that same Pope prior had Recognized Constantine VI in Constantinople as rightful Emperor.

The guy didnt create the word though. Byzantium was a name of a city in the region for some time.

@tonydai782

Жыл бұрын

Yet the Roman Empire wasn’t called the Constantinoplean Empire when they moved their capital from Rome. Obviously there was some reason the name was chosen, just not a good reason.

@johnlewis3891

Жыл бұрын

True, but they didn't refer to themselves as Byzantines. The city wasn't even called by that name at the time since it was renamed Constantinople.

@tylerellis9097

Жыл бұрын

@@johnlewis3891 Ehh inhabits of the city and the city itself would still occasionally be called Byzantines and Byzantium by Byzantine writers. It was just never used to refer to the Empire as a whole

@unl1m1tedzooba16

Жыл бұрын

@@tonydai782 Actually, it was named after the city, Byzantium which was an important city then.

@tonydai782

Жыл бұрын

​@@unl1m1tedzooba16 You didn't get the point of my comment whatsoever. Also it was only called the Byzantine empire from 1555, a century after it had ceased to exist. The city was called Constantinople, not Byzantium ever since the year 330. That's more than a century before the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, and a millennium before the fall of Constantinople.

As a Rum/Romanoi person from Constantinapole some people in Turkiye still call themself Rum(Means Romanoi) today

@N0TYALC

Жыл бұрын

Cool. I have an uncle who calls himself a bear.

@johnnyboy3410

Жыл бұрын

first of all you’re neither the things you said and it’s called Istanbul now days and Turks are the last people on this planet to call themselves Romans

@VergiliosSpatulas

Жыл бұрын

@@johnnyboy3410 Always was always will be Constantinople. Instabul is an Muslimification of a Greek word, hence whoever uses it is cringe at the very least and a degenerate at most.

@Goyim-phobic

10 ай бұрын

​@@VergiliosSpatulasno the word istanbul has 0 greek shit origin

very nice, in old Arabic literature the word rome is always used instead of byzantine

@harithdanial141

Жыл бұрын

Not even Eastern Roman. Just Roman

@Goyim-phobic

10 ай бұрын

It doesn't mean they were actually roman. 😂

@Goyim-phobic

10 ай бұрын

It was tow spreat empires with spreat history

@pancratius602

8 ай бұрын

This is still true for Eastern Christians in Arabic speaking countries that follow the "Byzantine" rite. In Arabic, both the Greek Orthodox and Greek Catholic (Melkite) churches are referred to as Roman Orthodox and Roman Catholic, respectively (Rum Urthudux, Rum Kathlik). Meanwhile the Western Christians who follow the Latin rite are called, you guessed it, Latin. Source: "American Eastern Catholics" by Fred J. Saato.

@bobmularky7456

7 ай бұрын

​@@Goyim-phobicNo

I agree. The Eastern Romans were a very different people than the people of the Republic or Principate, however they were Romans - separated by a lot of time and a lot of change. At their height, iirc, their estimated GDP was only about 10% of the GDP of the entire empire at it's height. The fact that they were considered so wealthy, and Constantinople was indeed wealthy as a city, illustrated how far Europe had fallen compared to the Empire under eg Trajan. The Eastern Romon Empire, for the most of it's existence, was more of a rump state than an actual empire. It did serve a key role in Western Civilization and in Christianity. It protected Europe repeatedly from conquest, and the ancient knowledge that it had preserved in it's libraries are what spurred the Renaissance when it's scholars fled to Europe with as many documents as they could carry after Constantinople fell. I have always felt the Fourth Crusade was immensely unjust considering the service the Empire had provided to the European states.

@cudanmang_theog

Жыл бұрын

We wuz romans still haunting historians

@infinitelink

Жыл бұрын

Except they weren't. Nobody from the city "Rome" with the lineage every had need to question or argue their identity. Eastern "Romans" were thoroughly Greek. When the ladt truly Roman Ruler was gone, Byzantium and it's institutions transformed into things unrecognizable to any Roman... but thoroughly recognizeable as consistently Greek. They were "Roman" because of paper declarations and a wish to hold onto the glory in memory... much the way you see the old provinces of many provinces try to claim the legacy of bygone golden ages (even when those provinces completely depopulayed and the people there now are completely unrelated and arrived only centuries later). The biggest "tell" about all this is *quite early the inhabitants of Eastern Rome began to revive and talk about the fact 'maybe we should be calling ourselves Hellenes'**. If they were a Roman, so are the other descendents of the beneficiaries of decree that all in the empire are citizens (Egyptians etc.). Of course, the moment that happened, that very emperor completely rendered citizenship meaningless (according to his own contemporaries) by ignoring the rights of citizens and slaughtering them.

@TitusCastiglione1503

Жыл бұрын

From what I read, the eastern Roman kinda helped bring the 4th crusade on their own country due to internal dynastic squabbles.

The Eastern Romans used 'byzantine' to refer to people from Costantinople/Byzantium, I think. But not for the entire state, which they called the Roman Empire, or sometimes Rhomania (not to be confused with the modern state of Romania)

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

Constantinople used to be called Byzantium, but that was over 1200 years before the fall of the city, the notion of being from Byzantium was long dead

@juwebles4352

Жыл бұрын

@@brandoncampanaro7571 that’s false the city never stopped being called Byzantium when Constantine renamed it and it just gained the synonyms Constantinople and Nova Roma it didn’t get rid of the name Byzantium

@bouzoukiman5000

Жыл бұрын

No. Not at all

@slslbbn4096

Жыл бұрын

The reality is that most of the West is made up of the very same barbarian successor states that destroyed the Western Roman empire, borrowing their symbols and regalia to bolster their own barbaric authority. These are the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Germanic tribes/Alemanni (Germany), the Franks/Gauls (France), the Visigoths/Longbeards aka Lombards (North Italians) etc. This won't be the last time they try to whitewash history to propogate their own skewed narratives.

@johnnyboy3410

Жыл бұрын

yes it was, everyone called it Constantinople

My great grandparents still called themselves Romioi up until and even sometimes after WWII. Our part of Greece didn't split from the Ottoman Empire until 1912.

@mxmlnlcdcdffmnt2232

Жыл бұрын

Thats not because they gonsidered themselves descendant of the ERE but because the Ottoman Empire considered themselves and called themselves the Roman Empire.

@yiannicart

Жыл бұрын

@@mxmlnlcdcdffmnt2232 I understand that... Although you are wrong on 2 points: 1. The Ottomans didn't consider themselves 'Romans', they called Orthodox Christians in the empire 'Romans'. Mainland Greece was literally named 'Rumelia' under the Ottomans. 2. Many of the Greek islands had prominent folklore (up until about 1945) where they claimed direct ties to the Byzantine Empire, and through that, the Roman identity.

@brianbuiles1322

Жыл бұрын

The ottomans didn’t see themselves as the Roman Empire in general, but the 15th, 16th and 17th century Sultans did. They have this belief that whatever they win by the sword is theirs by right and since they took the 2nd eternal city it kinda gave them some form of legitimacy.

@SpartanLeonidas1821

9 ай бұрын

@@brianbuiles1322Absolutely NOT !!! Never recognized by anyone. Also, their entire culture is closer to arabs, not Romans/Hellenes! I think people in modern day turkey try to push this because they feel a major inferiority complex for being closer to arabs. Its funny that they want to claim something Greco-Roman, as they despise that civilization yet try to claim the titles 🤡🤣

Why does Hieronymus Wolf look like a cross-eyed horse-faced Pinocchio in that painting?

I use the term Byzantine Empire in a casual sense. It doesn’t really bother me too much, in fact I think it sounds cool, and when talking to normies they are much more likely to understand that. However when talking to other people who actually understand what I’m talking about then I use the term Eastern Roman Empire. Or when I’m trying to be professional/scholarly.

@Adrian13235

Жыл бұрын

The thing is we make a distinction because Eastern Roman empire should be made up of what was once the eastern half after they lost the middle east what point is calling them Eastern Roman empire when they lost more than half of it

I only really use Byzantine the way I use Octavian and Augustus. Just helps me remember where in time I’m talking about.

@KingWhoppa

Жыл бұрын

Nice pfp

I discovered this when I made friends with a Bulgarian at work, he had no clue what I was talking about and he got really confused when I mentioned the HRE

@benc.3128

Жыл бұрын

Wait, how did he get confused about the HRE? Do they have a different name for it? I understand Byzantium because people call that different names, but the HRE only had one name, as far as I’ve ever seen

@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944

Жыл бұрын

@@benc.3128 In my country, we call HRE: Svätá Rímska Ríša Nemeckého Národa (Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation)

We should rename the Holy Roman Empire to "The Barbarian Empire" to see how they feel about it !

@carlosaugustodinizgarcia3526

8 ай бұрын

Germanic Kingdom would fit .

I just use the term 'Byzantine' because it sounds cool

@marsaeternum1003

Жыл бұрын

ROMAN is cooler, more powerful

@tylere.8436

Жыл бұрын

The term Byzantine actually carries a pejorative meaning of overly complex and palace infighting, which was referring to the imperial court of the time. So nah, I prefer to call it what it was, Roman. The Greeks even after the empire fell, certain pockets of them still called themselves Romans, only changed when modern day Greece was established to avoid the recent defeated and enslaved connotation of the once glorious nationality.

@VergiliosSpatulas

Жыл бұрын

@@marsaeternum1003 More powerful my ass, Byzantium was historically much more powerful.

@VergiliosSpatulas

Жыл бұрын

@@tylere.8436 You should prefer to call it what it was you cur, Byzantium. Due to the distinctive differences it had over the west.

It's a convenient way to separate the difference between the cultural Latin pagan empire of old vs the Christian Greek speaking Empire in the Middle Ages. History books love to simplify.

@aesir1ases64

Жыл бұрын

Simplification is one of the dangerous things one can do when portraying a history.

@lordoblivion8038

Жыл бұрын

@@aesir1ases64 so basically we have to stick of no easy term for the sake of truth in history with no convenience of word? Okie fair enough

@richardstarkey2247

Жыл бұрын

@@lordoblivion8038 Eastern Roman. Wow, that's so hard.

@achilleuspetreas3828

Жыл бұрын

@@lordoblivion8038 Rhomellene. Roman but Greek as well and a word they also used to describe themselves. There you go.

@gandalfthegrey2592

Жыл бұрын

@@aesir1ases64 lmao. Everyone knows the Byzantines were Romans, this is definitely simplification BUT it is an understood one. dangerous my ass. Simplification is dangerous, but this is far from one of those cases.

But they are the only ones legitimately a active part of time and never once stopped being until the end

It's actually "Rom-eh-os" or plural "Rom-eh-e" not "Roma-eh-eh-e-e"

1454 was the saddest year in history 😢

@jmmh1313

Жыл бұрын

1640 was worse.

@stanzer38

Жыл бұрын

@@jmmh1313 What happened in 1640?

@jmmh1313

Жыл бұрын

@@stanzer38 it would take too long to explain why it's such a terrible event that pushed us all forward economically but backwards in social rights, however, i will summarize it as the separation of the hispanic world, the consolidation of protestantism and the beginning of the first shapes of proto-capitalism.

@stanzer38

Жыл бұрын

@@jmmh1313 Okay. Now I remembered that it was the year the Portuguese Indepepnxe War statrted, although they're not a part of the Hispanidad.

@jmmh1313

Жыл бұрын

@@stanzer38 that's a really complex and complicated debate that goes all the way down to what is exactly the hispanidad. If you understand it as a group of countries colonized or to some degree created by the spanish state, not even modern day spain falls under that category. If you understand it as some way of inheritance from the visigothic Kingdom in whose conversion to Christianity some locate spanish identity, neither Galicia nor the north half of Portugal fall under that category, although everything south of the algarve does. If you see it from the lense of the best monarch Spain had ever been blessed with, despite being what out of context seems today as a figure with lights and shadows, Isabel I, then yes, they are and even brazil is part of the hispanidad. For the hispanidad is not only based in a language, and a faith. It is, i would say. An inclusive identity drawn over ethnical lines in which, every son and every daughter of a spanish can be included, regardless of who the other parent is. And it's important to leave this bluntly clear. That Hispania, carries in it's own name, the fact that the country was created as a state around the XV century but tracing its own origin from the roman province of Hispania. That's the only logical way to understand the union of those feudal kingdoms that had nothing to do with each other on the level of their historic nationalities. If you analyze a catalan and a Portuguese as such, looking for common ground, god help you. But if you analyze them as descendants of a common Hispanic cultural inheritance of ibero-romances, then you will see nothing but similarities. Now, i have to make an incision before concluding. Portugal has its own state, and that's good. Hispanity is more of a shared brotherhood, it doesn't require anyone to pay taxes to the same shareholders. They have their own rights to be separated if they please... However. Portugal as a word comes from Portus Cale, the ancient name of oporto that was baptized as "theport" in Portuguese just so no one would notice how fuckin made up the name of the country and the identity as such is. There's no possible way to reason the narrative of Portugal, for if based on language and closed ethnicity it should contain Galicia, if drawn on roman borders it should contain extremadura to be Lusitania, and if based on the ethnical concept of being "Caucasian" in the british sense of the word, the country as such wouldn't exist. it doesn't matter how much they want to portray themselves as "an atlantic country" they are still a Mediterranean people for which purity of the blood has been stupid and nonsensical for milleniums. If we are to understand the concept of "white" as "european without traces of black nor arabs in their blood" they have never been that.

I liked someone's comment on quora saying how in the late 400's the western half was bankrupt and didn't so much collapse as it got liquidated and the Eastern half was truly where the wealth and power lay by this point. I agree. Yes labeling them Byzantine was derogatory. Had things gone the other way and let's say Phocas did not succeed in over throwing Maurice or Justin Germanis succeeded Justinian and thr empire invested in its Easter holdings or Almantheufa was not killed and handed the kingdom of the ostrogoths to Justinian....things might have played out very differently. Or hell Basil II PICKED A SUITABLE HEIR.

@Agent554-yb7cw

4 ай бұрын

Back in the 400s Eastern roman empire was generating more gold than all Eu kingdoms combined with 77k gold bars annually and 400k indigenous strong troops while west Rome could only generate...7k. The biggest threat of ERE was the justinian plague which RUINED ERE in every aspect but most.. in man power which allowed Sassanins-slavs-bulgars and arabs to invade.

I use the term "roman" when it's clear who I'm talking about. And "byzantine" when it's confusing if I don't.

Pretty much! I know Prokopios still called Constantinople Byzantion in the Justinian Wars translated by Hacket. I wonder if you cant stretch the fall of 1461 of Trebizond the end? I know a stretch. When I talk about the late Roman I will use Byzantion/Byzantines so right after so people know what I'm talking about. Thanks for the video

@fransciscoeldrako8870

Жыл бұрын

The name of the town where Constantinople was built on was Byzantio. It was name after a hero from Megara, Byzantas of Megara

@Steven-dt5nu

Жыл бұрын

@@fransciscoeldrako8870 Cool I knew it was an older town. Not the back story.

FYI the term comes from the name of the founder of the city that used to be where Constantinople was founded .

As a Greek I don't mind the term Byzantine it links the Ancient Greek Civilisation via the colony of Byzas from Megara near Athens with the Medieval Greek Empire aka Eastern Roman Empire Derogatory for Westerners not for Greeks though

@wy_doe2320

Жыл бұрын

I bet you don't cuz that only makes the idea of the Eastern Roman empire being a Greek empire, it wasn't a Greek empire though sorry

@Constantine_IA

Жыл бұрын

@@wy_doe2320 CHRISTIAN ORTHODOX &SPOKE GREEK AND THEY WERE ON LANDS THAT GREEKS LIVED FOR CENTURIES THEY WERE MORE GREEK THAN GREEKS TODAY!As Plethon Gemistos declared...ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΕΣΜΕΝ ΣΤΟ ΓΕΝΟΣ&ΤΗΝ ΓΛΩΣΣΑ(We are Greeks in all aspects language and ancestry)

@deutschermichel5807

Жыл бұрын

@@Constantine_IA Yes. Modern Greeks are hardly the same people as in antiquity. By that I don't mean that their language changed and evolved, although there has been much slavic influence in the 6th/7th century , I rather mean the spirit. While ancient Greece was the birthplace of the European Civilization, mother of the Occident, it's today anything but it. The greek are not people of the occident anymore, like many neighboring peoples. This is also the reason, it's hard to think of the Greeks of the Eastern Roman Empire as Romans - because they weren't cultural romans, but soon development into the “orthodox greek” people. In my opinion, the Byzantine Empire still has been the legitimate eastern half, because I consider the medieval central european Western Roman Empire to be the legitimate western half. Interesting thing about both is, while the Byzantine Empire started as real Roman, but development towards the modern greek people, thus moving away from Rome, the Frankish-German Empire started as foreign “barbarians” who got baptised and claimed the imperial crown based upon their coronation by the pope, but developed towards modern german people, rediscovering much of ancient Roman civilization, law, justice due to the Italian Renaissance, thus moving towards Rome. The modern German language even has become much more Latin than Germanic was a thousand years ago. I didn't count, but I guess a fith of my daily vocabulary spoken is latin, and a fourth written. Even grammatics and structure of German is very similar.

@wankawanka3053

Жыл бұрын

@@wy_doe2320 and what was it ? Ethnically the greeks were the majority and treated as the empire's citizens while the latins well if you know you know

@wankawanka3053

Жыл бұрын

@@deutschermichel5807 well by your logic Egyptians can't be ancient Egyptians , Iranians can't be ancient Iranians and italians have nothing to do with the romans

Well spoken

Finally calling out German propaganda

Another interesting fact the ''latin empire'' that the crusaders created after they destroyed the roman empire of constinople in the fourth crusade also called itself roman empire

Thank you ! Finally lol. They were Romans

@slslbbn4096

Жыл бұрын

The reality is that most of the West is made up of the very same barbarian successor states that destroyed the Western Roman empire, borrowing their symbols and regalia to bolster their own barbaric authority. These are the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Germanic tribes/Alemanni (Germany), the Franks/Gauls (France), the Visigoths/Longbeards aka Lombards (North Italians) etc. This won't be the last time they try to whitewash history to propogate their own skewed narratives.

@Axyr

Жыл бұрын

They were Greeks tho

@ScentsOfSouthJersey

Жыл бұрын

@@Axyr they were Roman’s under the Roman Empire in the territory area that is around Greece. So when the western half of the Roman Empire fell the eastern half continued on for another 977 years. When the west fell the eastern half didn’t just suddenly change their names and identity to “The Byzantines”. The term “byzantine empire” wasn’t even created until 1557 which is a full 104 years after the fall of the Roman’s completely in may 1453 with the sack of Constantinople by the Turks. So west or east the empire was the empire and they were Roman’s through and through. The term byzantine does make it confusing I will say

@Axyr

Жыл бұрын

@@ScentsOfSouthJersey They were Greeks under the Eastern Roman Empire, in the territory area that is literally only Greece. When the western half of the Roman Empire fell, the Eastern half didn't just suddenly gain claim to the entire name and identity of "Roman". The term Byzantine was created 104 years after the fall of the Byzantine capital to distinguish how they weren't Romans in ethnicity, religion, language, culture, importance, nor in any meaningful way whatsoever in the slightest other than irrational claims to history. The term Byzantine makes it clear there was a massive difference between the Roman Empire of classic antiquity and the medieval period regardless of whatever delusion of grandeur they might have had at the time.

@ScentsOfSouthJersey

Жыл бұрын

@@Axyr as centuries go on yes things were different in the world then than they were in the classical Roman era yet they still considered themselves Roman and made attempts to, almost completely succeeding, reclaim the west and make it whole again.

The holy roman empire called themselves romans but they were not romans same with the bizantines.

Its such a cool name though😫

Finally some accurate historical facts.

Bro Is offended on behalf of a 500 year dead Empire

"These Byzantines sure do love their purple" 👴🏻

@thatromanguy1906

Жыл бұрын

lol

This is like going back in time and asking a viking why they didn't used horns on their helmets They would laugh at you and then sell you into slavery

Who gives a fuck if they called themselves Romans? Augustus didn’t call himself an emperor, he claimed he was simply “first citizen”. Yet, we call him the first emperor. Rome didn’t call themselves “The Roman Empire”, the called themselves “Senatus Populesque Romanus”. Yet, we call them “The Roman Empire”. Charlemagne called himself the Roman Emperor, yet we never count him among lists of Roman Emperors. If you decide you’re going to believe what every single historical figure or state says about themselves, you’re left with a history that is more myth than reality. They can self identify as Romans all they want, but it will never change the fact that they were, in fact, byzantines.

@travissmith5945

Жыл бұрын

You literally disregarded everything that was said in the video despite being given proof of why it was said. You're a knuckledragger

@michaelm-bs2er

Жыл бұрын

Your comment should get more recognition. You've hit the nail on the head, and it's something that should be obvious to anyone with the most basic knowledgeof history. As if no other empire or kingdom ever made some false claim to some great legacy before. But with modern education the way it is "if they said they are X....then they must be X". It's absolutely ridiculous and it's getting worse.

@sadvenom7826

5 ай бұрын

Exactly, they were greeks who happened to call themselves roman, because the romans conquered them. And when the romans finally left, they became thoroughly hellenic again. They even called the decendants of the romans "latin" in a derogatory way, almost calling them barbarians in a sense. Roman in name only.

We should also drop the term "Eastern Roman Empire" because the Roman empire never officially split.

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

It was split admisitrationally, both halfs were administered separately

@stepanpytlik4021

Жыл бұрын

@@brandoncampanaro7571 But they still remained a single empire.

@Adrian13235

Жыл бұрын

@@stepanpytlik4021 this isnt the holy Trinity they weren't one empire they were separated empires ran by separate emperor's who had separated problems

@stepanpytlik4021

Жыл бұрын

@@Adrian13235 Formally, the two empires never officially split from each other.

@DCCrisisclips

Жыл бұрын

@@Adrian13235 also west roman emperors regalia was sent to the eastern roman emperor and the western roman empire senate sent letter to the eastern roman emperor saying that the divide has finished

Based, but also I feel like it should be changed to eastern rome/Romans to differentiate the Latin and the Greek half

@DivineHellas

Жыл бұрын

Just call it the Greek Rome then. Or the Medieval Rome to separate it from the Classical Rome.

Before Wolf, the West called the Byzantines "Greeks." It's not to insult the Greeks. Its just to avoid confusion with the Holy Roman Empire.

"but the Eastern Romans didn't even know this term" "You would get beaten up in the back alley of Constantinople" So... which one is it...

Personally I just like how Byzantine sounds, it's a fun word to say. But I do agree with your points.

People living in the town of byzantion:🤨

@marsaeternum1003

Жыл бұрын

there is no such town

@allex975gaming

Жыл бұрын

@@marsaeternum1003 there was

@blushdog99

Жыл бұрын

Byzantium is what Constantinople was called before the capital was moved there. It was a smaller greek city that had existed for ages and had the usual greek temples, an acropolis and such.

@allex975gaming

Жыл бұрын

@@blushdog99 yes

Even their enemies called them Romans. When the the Seljuks took and Anatolia from them they called their state the Sultanate of Rum (Rome), something which the Ottomans continued to call it when they took it from the Seljuks.

Bless. Say it louder for the people in the back

I don't understand why any real historian would be biased against Rome 🌩

@MikaelLV

Жыл бұрын

In order tp legitimize the HRE as the true successor to the empire

So true my friend it is not Byzantine,but Romans!

Now what do you call the Holy Roman Empire? I’m thinking about referring to them as the first German confederation or just first confederation. Some times just first Reich

Discovered your channel while scrolling through Romaboo Ramblings videos, art looks so good, keep up the good work!

I still reckon that it’s useful

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

Its derogatory and disrespectful to a civilization that we have based so much of our world upon

@tutas7373

Жыл бұрын

We all know the n-word is useful to refer to a specific group of people. But we dont use it for obvious reasons

@andreaanaxandron9890

Жыл бұрын

@@brandoncampanaro7571 look, despite knowing full well that legally and culturally it was still the Roman Empire, using the word Byzantine gets you to the point without turns of words. If I want to talk about the latin classical/tard antiquity empire, I use the term Roman. If I want to talk about the medieval orthodox Greek empire, I use the term Byzantine. It’s easier for the interlocutor and the speaker, despite acknowledging that Byzantine people still thought of themselves as Romans.

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

@@andreaanaxandron9890 so then by your logic it would be easier to call black people the n word, derogatory words are morally corrupt ways of conducting your vocabulary, I guess if you wish to not be intellectual enough to know the differences, and make is "easier" and thus not give actual respect to the history by making it "easier", people like you are the ones who degrade our history in the vain attempt to help dumb people understand complex histories

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

@@andreaanaxandron9890 and attempting to make history "easier" is also how we get massive misconceptions, and facts just straight up wrong, in an attempt to make something that is very complex, "easy", dumbing down things never ended with a better outcome

FINALLY seeing someone else talk about this. Thank you.

It's true because Byzantium was the capital of the empire and also the eastern Roman empire had nothing Roman about it so I think it's fair

@wy_doe2320

Жыл бұрын

Constantinople was the capital of the empire and it had plenty of stuff Roman namely the fact that it literally was fucking Roman, it was as Roman as Italia was and nothing will change that

@tutas7373

Жыл бұрын

Saying that the capital was still being called "Byzantium" after Constantine is just stupid Using your same logic i can say that London must be called LONDINIVM because it was its original name. Constantinople had a lot of roman and pagan stuff all the way up until the sack of the crusaders. Yes, Justinian removed many pagan aspects of the city but it wasnt all of them. So, the capital had roman things in it Moving to the east the Latin influence was harder where the greek influence was weaker. I see no point in your comment unless you are greek Going to the middle age the same greeks you say arent romans believed, and were right to, that they were romans. Calling them byzantines is not fair because its a de-legitimazing term used by the very same people that overrun the west and then larped all their existence, until Napoleon, that they were the succesors of rome (Ironic. Isnt it?)

@constantinexii8182

Жыл бұрын

@@tutas7373 you don't understand what I'm starting to say

I agree on the one hand but I also see why they use the term to distinguish between the OG Roman Empire and the Eastern successor state. it ended up being much different than it’s predecessor. After all kinda hard to call yourself “Romans” when you not speaking Latin and your empire doesn’t include actual Rome (excepting Justinian’s reign)

I either forgot there wasn't aware of this legitimately, because I also use the term Byzantine by default, but what's important is regardless of its roots is the intent of the one that uses the name - most people that use the phrase Byzantine meaning a positive way not a negative one. But of course the byzantines are and will always be Romans ♥️

@iop3907

Жыл бұрын

GREEK 🇬🇷

There's so much misinformation here it's insane. You can still delete this.

@bobmularky7456

7 ай бұрын

Moron

It also shouldn’t be called the eastern Roman Empire when referring to it after the fall of the west, then it was just the Roman Empire. Thanks Zeno!

@MaxStArlyn

7 ай бұрын

Exactly.

@Kostis346

3 ай бұрын

Yes and you know what else I think we should do? We should call everything Roman, like the Chinese dynasties were basically Roman and also the African tribes were the continuation of the Roman empire

As someone that is inspiring to be a Roman historian, particularly in an early stage of Roman history, I thank you for this video. I subbed to you because of this video.

I feel that this author is from a country in the ‘Eastern Rome Empire’.

Don't care. I still call it Byzantine

@brandoncampanaro7571

Жыл бұрын

Thats like saying ill call black people the n word just cause I want to, or calling Chinese people chinqs or natives neeches, not caring about using derogatory words, shows you have no moral compas

@drill0152

Жыл бұрын

Cool

@MaxStArlyn

7 ай бұрын

Identity theft. There was the Roman Empire led by glittering Constantinople, the capital of Christendom.

@bobmularky7456

7 ай бұрын

I don't care about you either

@mhdfrb9971

7 ай бұрын

@@bobmularky7456 same lol

We thank you for your honesty Sir and correcting the historical injustice.

I really appreciated a professor of mine who said he will call them by what they knew themselves to be, Romans.

Why did you use it in the title of your previous video then…?

You can't use Greek instead of Latin and expect me to consider you Rome. A mighty and long-lasting empire for sure, but Roman? I disagree. It changed too much.

@gregkerna7410

Жыл бұрын

It's like saying France during charlemagne isn't the same France as of Today.

@Segregacionista

7 ай бұрын

@@gregkerna7410 and really is not the same

thank god there are someone talk about this 🙌🏻

The thing is that there is, after justinian a change in culture....it changes so much that we dont talk about Rome anymore

"I want to call the people of the Eastern Roman Empire what they truly were." So... Greek?

@michaelm-bs2er

Жыл бұрын

Finally, someone with some sense

@MaxStArlyn

7 ай бұрын

The Roman Empire had more than Greeks which made up the empire. There was NO TWO eastern or western Roman Empires. There was only one, and it was always heavily influenced, by Greeks, …Greek language, Greek art, Greek Architecture, Greek Philosophy, Greek mathematicians, Greek engineering, Greek culture…etc.

@Axyr

7 ай бұрын

@@MaxStArlyn That is true for the Roman Empire. The Byzantine Empire however was a slowly declining kingdom made up by delusional greeks. (The prior statement was purposely oversimplified as to be deliberately inflammatory).

@MaxStArlyn

7 ай бұрын

@@Axyr There was only ONE Roman Empire. Stop with the identity theft. And it truely fell in the invasion from outside in, in 1204. Then it was occupied and invaded from within, depleting it for centuries, until the satanic shadowy Oligarchy in Venice, essentially gave Constantinople to the Turks, to enslave the Christian Roman citizens, after it had drained the Christian Roman Empire, of its wealth and power.

@MaxStArlyn

7 ай бұрын

@@Axyr …”A decaying Empire: 1261-1453 By the fourteenth century, the J’3ωι5Η question of Byzantium seemed to be most concerned with Venetian J’3ω5. Venetians had come to reside in the Empire in large numbers by the early 14th century, and treaties between the Empire and Venice granted the Venetians living in the empire, including J’3ω5 of Venetian origin, special privileges, though they also carried certain minor economic prohibitions. Under the aegis of these treaties, Venetian J’3ω5 could buy, sell or rent land anywhere in Constantinople. They also enjoyed a more favorable tax structure than Byzantine citizens, as well as the freedom of movement and settlement anywhere in the Empire.[47] Further complicating this legal status, some J’3ω5 obtained Venetian citizenship either "by coming from areas subject to the Republic or by purchasing naturalization", thus obtaining the same privileges as Venetian nationals in the Empire.[48] At this time, the Empire was in rapid decay, and could not seriously enforce laws intended to curtail these rights and regain economic control within its borders. Thus, an exception to the general trend of Byzantine history emerged during this century, whereby J’3ω5 were entitled to a broader set of rights than Christians”…..ωικιρεδια.

What is more derogatory to be called Byzantine unknowingly or Roman without Rome? Do not worry about getting beaten up in back alleys of Constantinople as well... And as it happened many times before derogatory terms end up being cool. The research and our future better understanding may point us and steer us to stop calling native Americans an Indians or Easter Romans the Byzantine but till then it's cool in my book...

@tutas7373

Жыл бұрын

Whats germany without konigsberg if not any made up state? Since konigsberg was at one point the birthplace of prussia.

@wankawanka3053

Жыл бұрын

Constantinople was called nova roma .....

In Italy through the whole school we call it Easter Roman Empire (Impero Romano d'Oriente) since Roman empire was splitted in two parts. I hear and read "Byzantine Empire" basically only in english sources.

I learned something new every day.

And for this, I subscribe!

It's like a flange of baboons, it was made up by tha actor who plays Mr bean for a comedy sketch. Now it's the accepted scholarly term for a group of baboons

Low-key Byzantine sounds cool.

Came for Rod Taylor and his Time Machine, but I'm not disappointed.

Damn, that woodcutter did heironymous wolf dirty with those cross eyes

They did him dirty in that wood cut.

I have been saying this for ages

"beaten up in a back alley" the exact polar opposite

Heironynos looks cross-eyed poor fella

I like to use eastern rome (only when people know that I don't speak about the city) in the case they don't know i use the eastern roman empire

I only use it to differentiate the two eras. I call the nation the Eastern Roman Empire when it’s counterpart was still in existence. I would use Byzantine Empire as a way to talk about the empire after the West was conquered and up until 1453.

Thank you for saying this god knows not enough people do

to quote Charlamagne..."the Empire of the Greeks"

I have some doubts about your claims.

I’m absolutely going to use Byzantine Empire until the day I die

oH NoO, hE SaiD ThE B-woRD!!!

That the Eastern Roman Empire was indeed considered legit internationally is that when the Turks took over, their monarch did not adopt the title of ‘sultan’ right away, but kept that of ‘imperator’; the country continued to be known and called ‘Rūm’, ie ‘Rome’, for a long time; and its capital retained its original name of ‘Constantinople’, though adapted to the phonology of the new official languages, Persian and Arabic (curiously, what would eventually become Ottoman Turkish had little official use at the beginning, and even Greek remained in use for a certain period). All of the above to highlight how patent was that the Rhomaioi were indeed considered the legitimate heirs of the original Roman Empire, thought they no longer were Romans in the ethnic/linguistic sense of the word. Extra bonus: ever wonder what the name ‘Romeo’ means? Yeah, it’s the Italianized version of masculine singular ‘Rhomaios’, ie ‘Roman’. Very few Italians do realize that.

As a Greek my grandmother, great grandmother used the term visantio is how you pronounced it in Greek. None of our ancestors or any Greek person I met ever called themselves Roman blooded. Greek were referred to as Romans because of the Romans themselves until the Greek part changed the language from Latin to Greek for 1000 years. I truly believe the western world called us Roman’s not us Greeks

"Thus if you go back in time and called somebody Byzantine you'd probably get beaten up behind a back alley in Constantinople" Is this based off experience?

Perhaps a term like "Helenic Romans" might be a better descriptor? Idk, just throwing out ideas

Ok, but so what? The term has been in use for hundreds of years now, and no one is using it in a derogatory way. I'm so tired of all the forced language changes we are going through in order not to "offend someone".

@flaviusbelisariusthebasedl3116

Жыл бұрын

Ok then, now replace the term “African-American” with the N-Word

@jimfoye1055

Жыл бұрын

@@flaviusbelisariusthebasedl3116 Sorry, Byzantine != n-word

@kringle7804

Жыл бұрын

@@flaviusbelisariusthebasedl3116 who gets offended when I say that word who's from eastern rome oh yeah they don't exist

the term byzantium was used by the patriarch of Constantinople and referred to the city and not to the empire. In written texts it states that, for example, the fleet sailed from Byzantium.

That dude has some mad eyes.

The Byzantine army was very different from the Roman army of the late republican or early imperial era. Let's also say that in the late imperial period, after the 2nd century AD, the Roman army also began to lose much of its original strength, since after the last expansive campaigns of the empire (Dacha, Armenia and Mesopotamia) it became a force. permanent frontier, which guarded the "limes" (borders) of the aforesaid empire. Already in Roman times, at a certain point almost all the traditional legions disappeared, either because of the clashes between the various generals who competed for the position of emperor, or because from the aforementioned legions (who guarded the borders) forces were taken from time to time detached (called vexillations) to face certain internal war situations (incursions by barbarians, revolts, etc.). Beyond this phenomenon, the need to provide immense borders, with few stable forces, led to the end of the legions, replaced and by the aforementioned vexillations, and also framing the legionaries (who until the extension of citizenship to all the inhabitants of the empire were exclusively Roman and / or Italic) in smaller units (the cohorts), as was already the case for the auxiliaries. These cohorts (the cohort was originally a subdivision of the legion) could be quingenary (of 500 men) and miliarie (of 1000 men) or mixed (of infantry and cavalry) and due to their size they were very mobile. The Byzantine army was much more affected by the fallen Roman Empire, by the weight of the ethnic groups that formed it (Greeks, Armenians, Egyptians, Syriacs, and minor peoples of Anatolia and the semi-Romanized or Greekized Balkans). The element that should have been preponderant for the language (the Eastern Empire, beyond some titles, was always the predominant Greek language), the Greek one, in fact, proved in the long run the least suitable for military service, obliging the empire to hire barbarian mercenaries. After the wars undertaken by Justinian (who managed to contain the Sassanid Persians in the east, destroyed the kingdom of the vandals, occupied part of the Iberian peninsula and won the thirty-year Greco-Gothic war) the Byzantine armed forces came out very worn out, even for an epidemic. of plague, which claimed many victims throughout the Mediterranean basin. In fact, even a century later, also thanks to a long war with the Persians and an internal feud for the succession to the imperial throne, they were unable to face the Arab invasion (despite the value of Admiral Heraclius who had imposed himself as emperor) which snatched the rich provinces of Syria and Egypt (and later North Africa) from the empire. It must be said that contrary to Rome, which had made its strength with the legions (with the legionaries specialized as heavy infantry and fighting genius) the Byzantine army used a lot of archers and "cataphracts" (the "cataphracts" were heavy knights armored, built on the model of those who fought in the ranks of the Sassanid Persians already in Roman times)! Just Heraclius, reorganized the imperial army on the system of the "Themi". The "Themi" were a kind of "military provinces", each "Thema" was governed by a superior officer called "strategist" who provided to enlist his forces on his territory guaranteeing its defense! This system, after Heraclius, held for many years against the Arabs in the east (albeit with losses), and against the Bulgarians and the Lombards in the west (who managed to install themselves in Thrace and Italy respectively), guaranteeing the seal of the empire, although reduced only to Greece, Anatolia and southern Italy! Other Byzantine emperors (John Tzimisce and Basil II) even went on the offensive against Bulgarians and Arabs! The end of the "Thema" system came after the year one thousand, when after the disastrous battle of Mazincerta, the Turks, defeating the Byzantine emperor Roman Diogenes, took possession of almost all of Anatolia! Since then the Byzantines were forced to increasingly resort to foreign mercenaries!

Thank you for correcting the record.

What is the source for the watercolor painting used in this short clip? It’s really well done.

They would not beat any one up since they would not understand what that means.

I'll remember this. Thanks 👍