Also make sure the amp runs on green renewable energy and don't forget to untangle the power cables. Then simply do the sacrificial ritual every first off the month or whenever Jupiter is in retrograde, you can really hear the difference !

G’day from DownUnder Paul! Thanks for taking time to answer my question with humor 😁👋

Thing is, one can buy a shielded power cable from Belkan for just few more $$ than an unshielded power cable. This should raise questions about companies trying to sell power cables for audio gear at prices up to $25k (yes, twenty five thousand dollars.)

@paulb.3227

9 ай бұрын

There must be more to it than simply shielding ( and of course you have quality differences in shielding as wel). I had the chance to compare powercables for my PrimaLuna tube amps and also for my digital sources ( which are very sensitive for clean power!). The fact is: better ( and more expensive) powercables simply sound better! After a long session I came out for Audioquest on my amp and Furutech on the CD transport and DAC. Not the other way around! So listening is always vital. Cost me a few K, but not 25. Now I am extremely happy with my set.

@richardelliott8352

3 ай бұрын

@@paulb.3227 I remember when a company marketed a specially treated rock as necessary for audiophile quality sound , which got positive reviews at the time , but are now forgotten, along with a Clock that was supposed to improve sound by conditioning wall electricity. I also remember when coloring the outside of a CD with a yellow highlighter was considered as a performance upgrade , with special pens rushed to market for coloring the outside of CD's. Now , nobody cares, because it was all an illusion of hearing . I do remember being in an audio salon and seeing the small piles of black rocks set around the store and being impressed at the many thousands of dollars required to buy that amount of minpingo rocks. The price was not an illusion .

When building my first amplifier I realised how much noise there is "in the air" and how the smallest of things made all the difference. I don't have an expensive power cable though, just a nice red instead of ordinary black. 😄

@InsideOfMyOwnMind

Жыл бұрын

I can't believe you would run a red power cable! Even a complete idiot knows that a red power cord will color the sound by elevating the lower midrange. The preceding comment was made in jest using artificial AI instead of real AI.

I don’t think anyone can reasonably argue the validity of time-tested electrical properties, and any contentions away from those should require you to show your work. There is no magic here, no exceptions to the rules. What a lot of people have an issue with is that constructing something properly doesn’t necessarily mean that you can charge thousands of dollars more for an improvement that costs pennies to implement. I have run a non-contact voltage tester over standard OEM power cables and the tester will detect voltage, but my Pangea cables do not, so Pangea has remedied that with a relatively modest increase in price (still too high, IMO). I’m much more worried about what radiates out of my power cable in the vicinity of smaller voltage signals than I am about anything getting into my power cables, which will be cleaned up by any piece of electronic equipment that it’s plugged into.

I went through this personal discovery/experimentation process about 8 years ago. I started off with a rack of Parasound Z series gear and methodically started replacing ALL the cables from the stock ones that came with gear as well as the "average" grade interconnects I was using. The first cables I replaced were the power cables, I followed a well-known internet recipe (from Chris VenHaus) and built new power cables for each component. That absolutely lowered the background noise coming from my speakers when they were at full volume with nothing playing. It was a revelation. The second thing I did was replace all my interconnects with upper-mid-end to high-end RCA cables. This also made a difference, but it was not as pronounced. The final step was to add a PS Audio Power Regenerator which filtered all the noise and added power "capacity" for credenzos etc... Again, it made a demonstrable difference in reducing the noise to "black" when there was nothing playing but it also gave the music more punch. Not gong to argue, I know what I experienced and I can reproduce it.

@royrogers7644

Жыл бұрын

Its called placebo effect...

@PanAmStyle

Жыл бұрын

@@royrogers7644 Nope

@lorindamikaela

Жыл бұрын

@@royrogers7644 A man with an argument is at the mercy of a man with experience.

@royrogers7644

Жыл бұрын

@@lorindamikaela Its called placebo

@googoo-gjoob

Жыл бұрын

@@royrogers7644 nope

THANKS PAUL…🤗 for giving a reasonable SOUND answer…🙋‍♂️ I purchased a P S AUDIO Perfectwave AC-3 Cable a few years back…and I noticed an improvement right away and as broke in it got better…I never regret any purchase that improves my experience and also lasts for the indefinite period of time 🎉🎉🎉🎉

@Freq412

21 күн бұрын

Can you explain/elaborate on what it means to "break in" a 6' audiophile power cord. I have a fairly substantial broadcast engineering/audio electronics background but I can't fathom what might be happening to the cord on day one vs day one hundred. Thanks in advance.

With limited knowledge but a scientific background, I was skeptical about power cables having an influence on sound. But I experimented with various home made cables and found to my surprise they can have a significant impact. My observations suggest that they act as a filter, a shield and a conduit. I found the shield works well on a digital source. I prefer unshielded on amps. I think that architecture makes an impact. Connector quality makes much smaller impact. I use twisted pair for power conduit. This would filter common noise. I use a ferrite bead on the safety earth but not on the hot/neutral. On the power conduit the inductor dampens dynamics, but added to the safety earth it improves in the way reduced noise improves sound. But I also found that wire gauge makes a difference. Same architecture, but much larger gauge sounded better. Again makes no sense as all this is plugged into a smaller gauge in the wall. So I don't try to understand it, I just use what works and enjoy it. And no, since I spent next to nothing for it I am not justifying my investment.

@AT-wl9yq

Жыл бұрын

You don't have to justify your investment. Its your business, and no one else's.

@user-od9iz9cv1w

Жыл бұрын

@@AT-wl9yq Agreed! I just get fed up with the deniers telling me I am trying to justify my investment by thinking I hear a difference. While that is possible, it's a stretch when you build your own cables with wire you found in a recycle bucket.

@FOH3663

Жыл бұрын

Typically it's both, ... they experience a difference AND they're attempting to justify their gear choices.

@richardelliott8352

3 ай бұрын

@@FOH3663 A little consideration of how the brain processes sound would be useful to most audiophiles, just like knowing the basic laws of electricity would also be handy, and stomp out a lot of audiophile nonsense.

Then why don’t manufacturers of high end audio equipment provide this cord? If I’m purchasing “high end” equipment, why does it come with a cheap cord?

@wisehippo3072

Жыл бұрын

Because high end amplifiers are already very expensive. Including a high end power cord with them would make them even more expensive and unaffordable. Which means less people would be buying them which would hurt that manufacturer's business. Thats why they only include "el cheapo" power cords. And if a customer wants to upgrade afterwards, that is up to them.

@TECHNICKER_Cz

Жыл бұрын

@@wisehippo3072 no, the answer is beacuse the manufacturers know expensive power cables don't matter...

@Bassotronics

Жыл бұрын

Because the recommended cord that goes with the amplifier is the same price as the amplifier. 🤣😂

@scottborenstein8291

Жыл бұрын

It’s your responsibility to buy a better power cord. The manufacturers just include a cord that will make the piece work.

@LovelyDoetje

Жыл бұрын

The supplied power cable is the best solution for your equipement in a normal environment. If you have a non-normal environment or some EMF problems you can sometimes find a solution in different cables but for most people there is no need to do so. The best thing to do is to get rid of the device that is creating the interference.

Any conductor can act as an antenna picking up stray electromagnetic waves from many sources, microwave ovens, other radios including wifi. These waves can interact with each other in a constructive and destructive manner in the same way noise cancelling headphones work but in a random uncontrolled manner. Shielding around cables when grounded properly act as a Faraday cage capturing stray EM waves preventing them from interfering.

@woopygoman

Жыл бұрын

Your point about wave interference is excellent! Just a minor correction though: Faraday cages don't capture, they block.

@JonAnderhub

Жыл бұрын

Where are you going to properly ground the shielding on a power cord? To the ground that runs beside the other 2 condictors and attaches to the device case and ground? That will make a great path for EMI.😮

@vicweast

Жыл бұрын

@@JonAnderhub No. Drain to the wall, not to the component.

@MarkThomas-hm3ju

6 ай бұрын

Paul mentions grounding at the male end (away from the source). However, grounding at one end means the other end accumulating high frequencies like an antenna according to theory. Properly grounding at both ends is correct and will then act as a complete Faraday. The problem begins with homemade cable having a different potential at both ends because of keeping the shunts and solder at a high quality of being the same. Homemade has a hard time doing this. So, that becomes a source for a ground loop when the potential is different on the ends. A company like Stay On Line makes military and lab quality shielded power cables that don't have potential differences and don't produce a ground loop and don't act like antennas. Plus they are UL and priced well.

Of course shielding makes a difference, but there is a looooong way from standard shielded cables to the high multi dollar ´water hoses´ with voodoo blocks and gold plated plugs (that by the way goes directly into cheap iron receptacles).

@feignit

Жыл бұрын

Haha PS audio sells audiophile receptacles as well, big scam.

It is a fact that a poor or weak contact point in an AC circuit will generate noise from minute arcing. This can easily happen with cheaply made AC wall outlets when asked to supply larger than average currents. So using better plugs and sockets should reduce if not completely eliminate that source of noise. It's also why I have a dedicated circuit for my audio set-up that is fused from the panel box instead of having a circuit breaker in line with it; breakers have several small point contacts within them. All that said, I made my own power cords using 8 gauge 3 conductor wire from the outlet to my conditioner and 10 gauge from there to my amps. Saved a great deal of money doing it myself. All other power cords were factory 12 gauge. (Of course good grounding is crucial as well.) I can put my preamp volume up full with the selector on phono (without anything playing) and put my ear up to the speaker ... dead silence. No buzz, no hum and no hiss.

@FOH3663

Жыл бұрын

Nothing wrong with breakers ... but I certainly respect your fuse game!

The last few feet of power cable is absolutely vital. Without it, the rig will be challenged with significant voltage drop. That said, I've recently experienced systems better off with the aforementioned voltage drop.

@MightyPriest

8 ай бұрын

Do you know how to calculate voltage drop at all?

@FOH3663

8 ай бұрын

@@MightyPriest Voltage drop = I²R losses That said original comment was tongue in cheek.

@MightyPriest

7 ай бұрын

@@FOH3663 is it 3 or 1 phase cable, where is the conductivity parameter? :D your formula all in all does nothing with voltage drop expect a very few cases

@FOH3663

7 ай бұрын

@@MightyPriest Yes, I know how to calculate E drop (I²R losses). My initial comment was a joke, pointing out the "importance" of the last few feet ... as without the last few feet, you're going to have too much voltage drop (ie., a 2m gap!).

@MightyPriest

7 ай бұрын

@@FOH3663 i missed the joke -.-

If there is no RF noise at the wall outlet and only in the power cable why do we use power cables? Why not run the solid core power cable from the fuse box straight into the amp?

@FOH3663

Жыл бұрын

... you don't?

In the jumble of cables that are often behind a stereo, shielded power cables also help keep the noise of the AC out of nearby component and speaker interconnects. Also, is many systems the "fancy" cables often go between the power conditioner/regenerator and the components, in which case is not the "last few feet" at all.

@JonAnderhub

Жыл бұрын

Really? Where are you grounding your sheilding too? The ground in the electrical wiring? That attaches to the case of the device so attaching a shield will create a path for interference to follow through the device.

@vicweast

Жыл бұрын

@@JonAnderhub That is ***not** how one drains the noise from the shield, instead ***only*** connect the wall-side of the shield ***not***the component side.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole with expensive power cables.. But I have noticed a difference on some of my equipment, using cheap, heavy gauge, shielded power cables between my components and Furman power conditioner. I'm also less sold on fancy power cords plugged straight into the wall, because then it really is just the last few feet. I but I think of you're using a conditioner of some kind to actually clean up the power, then it makes sense to try and keep it clean.

As someone who deals with EMF interference on a regular bases at work I know it can be a big problem. The difference in the home environment is there are not many devices or equipement which can cause a lot of problems and are used all the time. That being said it is still possible to have devices that will cause problems and with the introduction of equipement like solar systems, homebattery or carcharging stations at home you will get more interference/noise. Having solarpanels I'm able to measure it. So my 230VAC is messy. I don't do anything to clean it. Why? you ask. Well I listened and I couldn't hear it. I also opened up my amp and measured the input and outputs of the power supply. The outputs were perfectly clean. So good power supply and no reason to do anything. For the interference mentioned by Paul in my case that is so small it can be ignored. I was able to measure an old cd-player (20+ years) if I turned it on and moved it closer to the amp but only on the input. The output of the amp psu was not affected. But all newer devices didn't do anything. For all people who don't believe measurements and believe in magic I also tried different cables. I bought some, got some from friends and got some from the store to try out. I didn't hear a difference. My advice would be: Cable should be shielded for high frequency and the shield should be connected on 1 side like Paul said, also good build quality. No need to go expensive. I found some good powercables at €50,- for a set of 6.

When you say “Power cable” are you talking about the plug that comes attached to the audio components or a multi plug surge protector or an extension or what exactly?

If I had a home, I would get a super duper power cable.

@vicweast

Жыл бұрын

If you want a home, you might want to spend less time commenting and more time working toward owning a home... just saying.

Measure it with an oscilloscope with one end plugged in your wall power outlet regardless of the length of the cable or build quality, do the comparison with the one you're willing to replace, it should show you which one is better. Have a listening test, this is also a way to tell you which is better, if not the most important of them all. Try to install a ferrite choke specific to 50/60 Hz range on your cable. It will make a difference. Save yourself from the trouble. Always trust your ears most important thing ever. I'm not going to get into the discussion of power/line conditioners or filters and generators/rebuilders or seperate electricity into your house through a separate socket etc... otherwise we will be here for days writing a comment.

@marcusbrsp

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, measurements do not necessarily tell the whole story. Your ears must do that.

@lassesaikkonen501

11 ай бұрын

@@marcusbrsp Measurements tell the whole story, the only story. Any other story is psychoacoustics.

Can you detect the noise being dissipated at the male end of the cable?

If you can hear the noice from the power input of an amplifier at the outputs of your amplifier. The solution is not to buy a fancy cable but to buy a decent amplifier.

My amplifiers are Nelson Pass designed home built F5 Turbo V3 class A that have a bandwidth that extends beyond 100 KHz. The amplifier output/loudspeaker cables are quite long and are shielded with self adhesive aluminium foil tape which is connected to the incoming copper water pipe for a ground because the system was working as an oscillator at an ultrasonic frequency. Lack of audio dynamics, very hot amplifiers and a faint swishing sound gave the clue that something was amiss. There is plenty of noise on an AC power line but I've never seen any of that noise on the output of a well filtered DC power supply, isn't that partly the reason huge (and hopefully smaller non polar) capacitors are used?

@stevesmyth4982

Жыл бұрын

@ Douglas Blake. The shield around the 'speaker cables is grounded, not the (low side of) cables themselves. The equipment is not inherently unstable, as stated, the class A amplifier has a very wide bandwidth but also has a low gain of just 16 dBs. That the speaker cables are long doesn't help but they're long because the amplifier is water cooled and has two 5 K RPM (noisy) fans and is in the cellar below my listening room. The RIAA input stage is also a Pass design, as is the single transistor gain stage between the output of the RIAA stage and the F5 input. The system did not oscillate when 'speaker cables were not connected. If you've ever put a finger on the input of a wide bandwidth power amplifier and heard a hiss (rather than a main's frequency buzz) you will know what I'm typing about.

Power cable replacement goes back to the pre-digital era when everything was analog. When people professed a preference for a fancy low noise cable what was causing the intereference? The only thing I can think of is: rectifiers, bad designed oscillating DC voltage regulators (unusual), FM pilot tone or tape bias oscillator during recording (only)?

@richardelliott8352

3 ай бұрын

I think the recent advancements in brain science will answer these questions, if the simplest and most logical conclusion will do. back when science was more limited, a double blind test was used to separate illusion from reality , but such proof by testing is never cited by any manufacturer of fancy wires.

Mains supply on the wall may suffer from PQ issues, that why we needs IEC standards of ESD EFT & Surge protection in your machines.

You are SO on point here. Most people just repeat what they hear, and they can't be wrong because of either logic or science. I stopped with disccussing and pointed my horizon towards people who actually test the stuff. It's a waste of time with some folks haha, so just let them hear the difference right away if you can or invite them.

@davidfromamerica1871

Жыл бұрын

It’s how some people view logic in their personal lives. They evaluate for themselves They ask themselves that. What is this service going to do for me personally. What is this product going to do for me personally. Everyone wants to be a salesperson.😀 telling you what you need 😀 that is what Communism is, that is what a Dictator is. People that need someone else to control their life. 😀 Audiophile is an Ideology. What the hell do you think it was…😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

It is an undeniable fact of physics that any length of wire is an antenna that will pick up all manner of spurious crud. And the power cord will happily deliver this spurious crud directly inside the chassis of your beautiful amp. It is also an undeniable fact that the human ear is to musical sounds as the human palette is to good food and wine. So doing everything possible to keep your wine glass and flatware clean and fresh is a good idea. And putting a grounded shield around the six foot conductors of your power cord and signal wires is also good idea. However, A well designed analog power supply ought to eliminate 99.99% of any problems coming from yer wall outlet, the other noisy devices in your house (computers, fridge, printer, dimmers, LED lights, etc) and/or the power company. Finally, do you want to terrify the audiophile in your household? Just remind them that all stereo component power supplies have a bridge rectifier to convert AC to DC. It's like opening and slamming a door shut 120 times a second. The EMF spikes that result are horrendous (and the BR is even closer to your beautiful analog circuitry than your suspiciously cheap power cord). But thank God for snubber, bypass and reservoir capacitors. I now leave you in peace....

It’s a dam good thing there are no Audiophile food recipes. 😀

@richardelliott8352

3 ай бұрын

I appreciate a man with humor .

In the past I tried a power cable (shielded). Also thinking about al the wires right up to the socket, that a relative small power cable could possibly not make a big difference. The guy from the store had me buy a Siltech power cable, and told me that if I didn''t hear any positive difference I could just return the cable and get the money back. I just could not believe the difference! I heard it... (seller new I would i guess) I've let other people listen and they ALL heard the difference. This first cable was on my CD-player back then. Later on I tried replacing cables at the amps, but I must say that didn't't make any difference to me. I guess the CD-player was putting out noise back into the rest of the system so it was more noticeable when using a better power cable there.

@nazar5489

Ай бұрын

In other words the cd player was crap?

Audio engineers will tell you Paul's reason is easily disproven. If there were a difference , there would be an answer. Finding one when there isn't, is a tad harder.

Paul...please! You speak to the power link from the wall to the device. The last 3-6 feet typically. What have you to say about benefits of "isolated ground wiring"? Specifically, how the house is wired from distro box to wall outlet. I suggest fancy terminal power cables attempt to treat a symptom, not the cause.

I think I remember Paul saying he still recommends a high end cable even with a power plant. That always seemed silly to me

@gilgalaad80

Жыл бұрын

it can regerate power, but with 2 thousand dollar cable it can do it better :D

@BradfordWarner

Жыл бұрын

The cables and a conditioner act synergistically. Folks can argue a thousands paths of disbelief but Paul is right these are often people who have NOT actually evaluated them.

Why would I install a power cable that is NOT UL rated? Hey Paul is your cable fire rated?

@ryanamendt8363

Жыл бұрын

It's shielded with voodoo.

So lets’ see, you have dropped $11,300 on a single-ended triode mono-block amplifier that puts out almost 6 watts with a mere 3% THD. You trust that the engineers that designed it have picked a topology and specified the appropriate components (Vintage NOS tubes, Mundorf silver/gold/oil capacitors, Vishay resistors, and pure silver wiring etc.) to ensure it provides crystal clear transparently that is always agile and dynamic while being rich and fully saturated, offering a tonally and harmonically dense acoustic environment with a huge soundstage and a highly natural tonal and textural delivery that is extremely quick, and controlled - yet neutral, balanced, very musical, and powerful with blackness and control in the bass that allows simply the right transmission of music free from artifacts or manipulation in which the instruments are contained in their own space resulting in a magical musical harmony between speaker and amplifier electronics that assures considerably better focus, instrumental separation, cleaner & sweeter treble and better upper-midrange resolution with an impressive layering of dynamics, as well as nice drive and transient pop, and a strong degree of transparency that is grain-free and offers effortless resolution and reflexes, making it a snap to follow interleaved melodic and rhythmic lines with a sound that is open and detailed with exquisite harmonic nuance and shading with dynamics that are very agile (again!), realistically tracking changes in the music yet with a low end that is elegantly controlled but not over-torqued but instead is luscious, velvety, silken, gorgeous for a presentation that never, ever sounds electro mechanical, instead is always wholly natural with a dynamic range that is prodigious in delivering the sonic goods with naturalness, beauty, and ease, while also throwing a remarkably deep and wide soundstage (again!) brightly every time with a golden sense of bloom, inviting detail, and unwavering musicality that produces lifelike illumination in the mids and treble, exquisite resolution of fine detail, and outstanding transparency to the tintinnabulation that so musically wells from the jingling and the tinkling of the bells, bells, bells, bells (oops I diverge). The engineers that designed the amplifier are, however, completely incapable of specifying a power cord that fully (or even partially perhaps) meets the needs of such an amplifier. Thank the Lord above that there are companies at the ready to make up for such ineptitude - that is if you are willing to pay the price.

God I wouldn’t of picked you for 75 mate. Look fantastic.

That so far is the only rational explanation.... I have a solid background in electronics and do have a good understanding of proper shielding. I will accept this answer.

@amotriuc

11 ай бұрын

It is not, noise comes from everywhere. He need to prove that noise that comes from power cables is big enough and is bigger then other sources of noise and none of this was done. It is like: my car tires are only 99% round this will affect the speed of the car and I should fix this. It definitely affects the speed of the car but not as much as other things that you have in the car.

@soniclab-cnc

11 ай бұрын

@@amotriuc I believe you misunderstand how a proper ground shield in this instance can isolate noise. He states clearly that this only will prevent electromagnetic interference from adjacent equipment. When you have a very resolving system with sensitive electronics you must try and eliminate variables to improve noise floor. It may make no difference to your setup but may improve noise floor to other setups.

Audio Science Review and Audioholics tested and compared various high end power cords to a cheap generic and found they made no measurable ( with an expensive Audio Precision analyzer ) or audible difference on the performance of various audio components . Shielding can help if your components or interconnects are susceptible to 60 HZ interference emanating from your power cable.

@Mark-lq3sb

Жыл бұрын

Are you related to Amir?

@leekumiega9268

Жыл бұрын

@@Mark-lq3sb No I just trust the science , if something is claimed to make an improvement it should be measurable or at least pass a blind listening test. You forgot to mention Gene DellaSala at Audioholics who usually comes to the same conclusion as Amir when something is the equivalent of snake oil.

@Mark-lq3sb

Жыл бұрын

@@leekumiega9268 SCIENCE isn't EVERYTHING.

@leekumiega9268

Жыл бұрын

@@Mark-lq3sbaside from being an electrical engineer Amir was also paid as a listening consultant due to his well above average listening ability and skills . So he does not just measure he listens for differences. I should also add that there are some well known manufactures that send him their products to test and listen to.

@Paulmcgowanpsaudio

Жыл бұрын

The thing is no one ever thought or claimed there would be any measurable difference on the AP (same equipment we use). But that's like saying a dynamometer shows no difference in measured performance when the car's suspensions are radically different. That expensive AP is limited in its measurements.

The term “deniers” is a bit nasty - calling back to Holocaust deniers. There are skeptics, most of whom (myself included) are skeptical at companies charging thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars on cables claiming to have magical effects on system performance. Will a heavier-gauge, properly insulated and shielded cable help reduce noise? Of course. Does that cable need to cost a couple thousand dollars? Absolutely not. Power supplies have filtering on their input so I’m not sure how much improvement a special power cable will provide - certainly not enough to justify the astronomical prices being asked by many manufacturers. You could just as easily as brand “believers” to be like Scientologists, having spent so much money they must believe it does make a difference or be forced to admit they wasted thousands of dollars on snake oil.

How to ground the noise from a noisy motor in turntable that Is inducting into moving coil phono cartridge as it approaches the center of the vinyl record? Should I get a moving magnet cartridge that picks up less noise from the motor or is it possible to magnetically shield the motor? Yes, I have a cheap turntable.

@richardelliott8352

3 ай бұрын

My solution was to get a belt drive table that didn't have a motor under the cartridge path with my next upgrade, eliminating the concern forever. But if it is possible to put a metal shield around the motor, that would work . It's the same theory behind why people wear Aluminum foil hats, to block out unwanted signals. Although the former is more practical than the latter, both use the same science.

I know some Facebook audio groups banned cable discussion because it usually doesn't end well.

well said

Paul, you are a Jem.

Hey Paul. I'm an audiophile (250k plus system) but I'm also a general contractor so you can imagine my thoughts on this, but honestly, you have me rethinking everything. I have a designated 20 AMP line to my system and use mostly manufacturers cables. I'm now off to audition power cords. Palm slap to forehead. Thanks ... I think.

You can also say it's the first few feet your gear see

In 1/120th of a second (1/2 a singe cycle of the 60 hz cycle) electrons move about 2250 kilometers distance.

@FOH3663

Жыл бұрын

I don't think so.

I have never had the opportunity to listen to expensive power cables so I can’t comment on thier validity. The most expensive power cables I have seen were $15,000.00 for a 2 meter length. What I do wonder is what the manufacturing cost is for such a cable. What could possibly make 2 meters of cable and two AC connectors worth that much? I could purchase BHK 600 monoblocks for $36,000.00 then another $30,000.00 for two power cords for them. Just doesn’t make sense when considering the hardware content.

@leekumiega9268

Жыл бұрын

The labor involved in rubbing them down with snake oil is expensive.

@Ian-wh8ut

Жыл бұрын

wow are BHK monos really that spendy!if so you really make an awsome point to someone who will never have to make that decision.and dont even play the lottery!

@zulumax1

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake'People are willing to pay it' is the obvious answer, but it is still a valid question. How could the best sales person convince anyone to part with that much money for such a simple device? I want to hear the sales pitch that sold them on the idea.

@realitykicksin8755

Жыл бұрын

Spending more than $2500 on 2 amplified channels is a waste.

Speaking of "NOISE".....you certainly are radiating lots of it here

@Ian-wh8ut

Жыл бұрын

now that is some funny stuff!

The longer a cable, the better it becomes a pickup / antenna for noise. Solution: Get rid of it.

Dear god what was this? After hearing this, I'm now sure it doesn't make a difference 😂

Putting your washing machine, oven, microwave on the same circuit has 1000 times more influence than 1/10000 length of the net power cable

If your equipment generates enough EMI to be picked up in a power cord and transmitted through your system, you have bigger problems than 3' of cable.

@vicweast

Жыл бұрын

The electromagnetic noise outside the wall amongst all your gear is far higher than the 15 amp shielded power run from the circuit breaker to the wall outlet. It's a fact for most residences. The cables -power and interconnects- that hang off the back of your various components can either shun that interference or those cables can act like an antenna and thus induce noise into your system. This is what you face, more or less.

A better question would’ve been: Paul if sticking few feet of some wire could improve the sound, why don’t you put that inside of the amp (or any other device). The answer is obvious.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

LOL, in one of Paul's video he was in the manufacturing area standing next to a hookup wire rack. I noted most of the reels said "Consolidated Wire and Cable". That stuff is sold in most electronics and electrical supply houses. Pennies a foot. Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with this wire, it's good quality. But we have to ask why PS Audio would use community hook up wire and at the same time go on and on about the need for ultra expensive power cords. Same goes for the Molex or Tyco connectors I have seen inside PS audio products. Low cost plastic connectors. Now they are good connectors and will do no harm but again these are the same quality you find in a 65in $799 flat screen TV. We hear the AC power outlet is so important but then commodity Molex connectors are just fine inside the BHK and Power Plant products?

Paul was right, no matter what he says…he ain’t going to change some minds.

🙏

Theres something very wrong here. Paul goes on about how important it is to have screened mains cable and how it is the most important thing you have to do to stop interference getting to your equipment. How come a very high end audio company dont believe in shielded mains cables. That company is from the UK and is called Naim. Yes they also sell snake oil $600 dollar mains cables. Why do they say a shielded cable will degrade the sound. Something not right here guys.

Ladies and Gentlemen. Welcome to the Troll Show. Paul, you must have Rhino Skin.

@loudelvis610

Жыл бұрын

Lol...certain things bring out the "comment experts" welding on KZread is high on the list but audio is close to the top

0:44 aha!

Every notice how none of these cables are UL passed. Good luck with your insurance if you have a fire. It's a power cable, if it measures the same it can't change the way you eguipment sounds. I use induction for cooking, if I put an expensive extension between the wall and the cooker will my food be better? No.

@jonl1034

Жыл бұрын

Some chef will say it matters, and back it up with a double-blind study.

"Eppur si muove"

It’s easier to clean the last few feet of noise by stop/lessening the noise at the wall socket. Tripp-lite Isobar is a plug-in unit that can help ground without a cheap cable to deteriorate or degrade the signal. Plus provide lightning protection. Also a good idea to use plug-in filtering devices to clean the signal. I know PS Audio sells a couple.

It can not matter, impossible! Maybe a separate electrical group can do something. I would spend the money there and get a normal decent power cable.

Paul is 100% right, I tested my system both with a audiophile mains cable and without, and it sounded better with a mains cable fitted. 100% of listeners could tell the difference in with or without a mains cable in a double blind test, so it must be true. OK, Joke off; I don’t have a special mains cable for the following reasons. 1. I have a specially wound transformer which is wound in such a way as to reject noise, and not require any interwinding screen, reducing the interwinding capacitance which can carry HF noise. 2. I have a mains filter fitted. 3. I have a really good ground connection in the house. 4. The amplifiers I use are all very high quality with regard to Engineering build. 5. Finally, I don’t believe in Fairy’s, Lifting speaker wire off the floor, or sonic voodoo which exists simply to prop up the failing industry which is high-end audiofool. (PS Items 1 is true, I do have a one-off transformer in my Class-A amp) Quote PMG "People with zero experience still express an opinion, which, as such, isn't valid", a denier if you will. Case in point, Lets jump out a plane Paul, it will feel great. Now I have no experience in jumping out of a plane per-se, but I have enough knowledge and experience to know its a dumb idea. A HiFI mains cable is a dumb idea. If it made a difference, you need to dump your setup because it’s junk.

Spot on! It make a difference. Period.

Paul is using words like "option" and "believe" and then tries to explain something no engineer with scientific background would do it like that. Where are the plain facts, like measurements or blind tests?

ok, so cheap standard electrician wires inside the wall is shielded by the wall paper and chip board so you need to buy a 1K$ powercord the last few feet to the amp... yeah, of course that make total sense.

@Mark-lq3sb

Жыл бұрын

You should consult with Trigger on such matters.

@royrogers7644

Жыл бұрын

@@Mark-lq3sb Yep, even trigger know more about cables...

@Mark-lq3sb

Жыл бұрын

@@royrogers7644 Probably not, but I wouldn't argue about reins with him.

@royrogers7644

Жыл бұрын

Gotta be pretty dumb if you think dog crap taste like chocolate just because it is wrapped in silverfoil

@Mark-lq3sb

Жыл бұрын

@@royrogers7644replies to Roy Rogers. Gotta be pretty dumb..........

Next, you're gonna tell us that digital interconnect cables matter!

@vicweast

Жыл бұрын

they do, and you can verify that with a really poorly constructed cable by checking the number of retransmits required due to bit check errors.

Use power cables off hospital equipment 😊

When listening, that background noise one is hearing is not in ones head. That's your cables crying out... give me some fucking protection. Of course, if one wishes to be in denial, a little disparaging comment here or there seems to give one some sort of gratification.

Yes but I saw on the internet that the world really is flat.....explain that!!!

3:00 did Paul answer the question? the questioner asked for some studied material science evidence or proof on what happens in the last meter of a cable. then paul settled to write a novel. i will further investigate this matter. i know there is some magic to cables but now im ready to the science behind it. good shield less noise...come on we all know that .

@no_bull

Жыл бұрын

RF exposure of cables can be experienced even behind your wall where your power socket receives AC electricity from. 50/60 Hz of RF energy can penetrate almost any standard wall thickness effortlessly. Where do you start from? Shielding of cables is very important, but what happens if the last bit of cable between the wall socket and your equipment has got excellent shielding while everything else behind the wall socket is exposed to RF energy? Will the RF interference travel along and through the cable all the way to the device you're powering? Factually it can and will. Best way to beat it? Use a 50/60 Hz AC power filter between the wall socket and your device and then, only then you will benefit from a well shielded cable. Also install a ferrite choke on the cable. Just don't go buying something more expensive, no more than $50 to $100.

@no_bull

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake surely agree with what you're saying so far. What about vintage equipment prior IEC standard though?

@no_bull

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake the recording is very important of course. There's good and bad recordings. However there's so many variables in between that can make or break. I got you.

@no_bull

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake 100% 👍 I couldn't agree with you more.

@vicweast

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake ...so you like antennas behind your gear?

Yeah, they make a difference, I bought 2 of them. But is a $300 cord 30x better than a $10 cord? No.

the worst are the cellphone chargers

@FOH3663

Жыл бұрын

... no, drummers are the worst.

Obviously what our eyes can see matters. Our perception of audio includes some degree of visual deception of our brain. There is far more impact on our audio perception from the visuals on cables than from actual technical improvements. It’s like a good quality perfume can make us think a woman is more beautiful.

@Mark-lq3sb

Жыл бұрын

It's a overabundance of alcohol that makes the ladies beautiful. 😁

@richardt3371

Жыл бұрын

@@Mark-lq3sb Both of you should be ashamed - sexist neanderthals.

LOLZ.

The last few feet of a power cable is called pseudo.

@nicktube3904

Жыл бұрын

So your that guy who didn’t even experimented himself and has a opinion..

@matspalmqvist

Жыл бұрын

Yeah if u sit on a sh1t system absolutely.

@bjornjagerlund3793

Жыл бұрын

Try to do without the last meters of cable, you will find it to sound a lot different.

@nathanevans6277

Ай бұрын

It's not the last few feet, it's the middle few feet. Electricity flows in circuits. It starts and ends at the power plant with your hifi component in the middle. Commenters seem to fall into two camps. 1. Those who can't see how a quality power cable can make a difference so never try one and then claim that they make no difference. 2. Those who try and hear a difference. I didn't think that power cables would make a difference but too many people with no skin in the game said they did. So I tried one and was shocked at the level of difference.

@budsmoker4201120

4 күн бұрын

Psychoacustics at its finest

Hitler was a vegetarian just like you Paul. Coincidence?

Could also be NOT using the chinese stamped 3 strand tin junk thats free in the box power cable.

John's question could have been answered with a single word; no!

@BoredSilly666

Жыл бұрын

I think he was talking about you

If the last 6 feet matter, then the first 80 to 150 feet ALSO matter.

@paulb.3227

9 ай бұрын

Why? Explain!

I am so tired of unscientific claptrap in the audiophile world. What's even more galling is to be called an "air-quotes" denier simply because the science behind this nonsense isn't there. In most fields people say follow the science - when it comes to audiophile lore it's apparently better to ignore the science and logic. I'm also frustrated by the pompous "people who have no experience" jibe - we've all got ears, Paul, we've all got minds that work, and most everybody who follows you on KZread will have experience of a highly resolving system, so please don't keep putting down people who have (like me) years of experience in installations of high end equipment and who can say, categorically, that there is no science or logic or reason in spending a fortune on expensive power cables for the last few feet of power.

@guinnster1

Жыл бұрын

Wow! That's bold of you to go against the Paul... on his own channel even

@no_bull

Жыл бұрын

God bless you mate well said 👍

@no_bull

Жыл бұрын

​@@guinnster1 The truth is just the truth with facts backing up the truth. Otherwise it's a theory of a possible audio improvement concept or a sales practice, purely.

@wisehippo3072

Жыл бұрын

"...we've all got minds that work..." You sure about that buddy? If you're willing to discard something just because it goes against your beliefs, then i dont think your own quote apllies to you. Its sad how triggered these deniers get every time they hear that cables matter. You are free to think anything you want, but dont get triggered when someone doesnt share your opinion and points out that people like you are not willing to listen. You just proved his point.

@EraYaN

Жыл бұрын

@@wisehippo3072 but it’s not a belief though is it? If one party always refuses to measure anything to support their claims and it doesn’t make sense within current established scientific consensus, what ever they are paddling probably has some issues with it. Since if this was the case you know, we could have measured it all the way throughout the chain. Our ears are very very poor measurement devices, we can make way way better devices out of hardware to measure essentially everything about the audio band. (Audio band is damn low frequency all things considered and frankly almost trivial te measure with any half competent setup.

Donald Trump says audiophile power cable are "fake science" 🤣

@AT-wl9yq

Жыл бұрын

No he doesn't. 2 of the companies he owns make high end cables.

@jonthurston8275

Жыл бұрын

@@AT-wl9yq Proud Boyz Cables Inc.

@Ian-wh8ut

Жыл бұрын

@@AT-wl9yq heavy on the gold

Not only does the power cable matter, but I’ve noticed my system sounds better when the power is solely what’s generated by my solar panels.

@EraYaN

Жыл бұрын

That is kind of weird because most inverters are pretty bad compared to the nice sine waves comes from the grid generators.

@Oldcrow77

Жыл бұрын

@@EraYaN not anymore Most are true sine wave. I’m off grid and we have a small solar system and a generator with a true sine wave inverter. Getting ready to upgrade the whole system this summer. The inverter itself is a couple thousand dollars. They are pretty much a industry requirement any more, with some much stuff being digital and computerized.

@PanAmStyle

Жыл бұрын

@@EraYaN I should have that measured - it would be interesting for sure. There are other factors, of course. It doesn’t seem to be the case 100% of the time, and I do have a good power cable for the amp and some rudimentary power conditioning for the components - certainly not Regenerator or Niagara level.

It DOES NOT MATTER ...CABLES DO NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

@marcusbrsp

Жыл бұрын

They certainly do make a difference. But like Paul said, you need a revealing system to hear it. Meaning you can't have an entry level system with a pair of 200 dollar speakers and an integrated amplifier costing the same amount. In such a case you will probably not notice any difference what so ever.

@mikemcguinness1304

Жыл бұрын

@marcusfredriksson738 yeah OK, whatever you say

@zulumax1

Жыл бұрын

@@marcusbrsp So what would be an entry level revealing system? Maybe some used Maggies or Kef LS50's for starters? Quoting dollar amounts does not mean much.

@marcusbrsp

Жыл бұрын

@@zulumax1 I couldn't possibly answer that. Personally, I spent about 8000 dollar on my stereo setup and I certainly notice a difference between a generic power cable and a properly shielded power cable. It's not like it's a night and day difference, but it's noticeable.

@tubefreeeasy

Жыл бұрын

Oh well, you’ll never know.

Well let's see Paul, perhaps the reason the non believers don't believe and aren't easily swayed is because OBJECTIVE evidence shows power cables make no difference and it's only ever SUBJECTIVE evidence that says it does. Physics vs opinion. We know which one is more reliable.

@JingoLoBa57

Жыл бұрын

Neither physics or opinions are static, new theories and methods arise in physics to better measure and explain phenomena. Uncertainty is a significant part of the natural world.

Geeeez, I was starting to give some sort of credit to some of your posts, but you’ve just blown that. Firstly, as someone who’s worked with big sound systems and well gen’d up on what works and what doesn’t and who’s primary job is in RF engineering, I can categorically state that no last few feet of power cable is going to make the slightest difference. If it does, you have a very bad RFI problem and probably should have bought equipment from a manufacturer who incorporates decent supply filtering within their products. If you’re relying on a power lead to sort basic RFI problems then your equipment ain’t no good!

Keep all power cables as short as possible and grouped together and DONT coil any excess cable ! Speaker cables ... keep each speaker cable as short as possible and don't group together and don't coil excess up either. Signal ( line level ) cable should be short ( if unbalanced) longer if balanced and the same goes as for speaker cables ... not coiling excess isn't so important...😀

@paulb.3227

9 ай бұрын

Oh no! Power cables should be at least 1 m, or better 1.5m. Too short cables don't work. Try it !

@janinapalmer8368

9 ай бұрын

@@paulb.3227 okay ... tell me what your reasoning is ... I'd like to see 🥹

@paulb.3227

9 ай бұрын

@@janinapalmer8368 Well, I'm not an engineer, so technically I cannot explain it, but, in common words: a powercable must have the length and space to clean up the mess. A longer cable makes sense in my simple way of thinking. But what's more important for most audiophiles: a longer ( than short) powercable sounds better! I had that experience in a very resolving set. Both Audioquest and Furutech recommand a minimal lenth of 1 meter.

@janinapalmer8368

9 ай бұрын

@@paulb.3227 interesting 😀...I'm still yet to be convinced ! You must take into consideration the REST of the supply cabling this can be many feet long or even Kilometres long from the substation transformers . So what difference would a couple of feet make at the end of the line ?

@paulb.3227

9 ай бұрын

@@janinapalmer8368 A lot of difference. Paul just explaned. Did you even watch this video?

Referring to "those deniers" is not helpful and frankly arrogant. I was disappointed that you presented no evidence.

All you have to do is to look at the hard evidence. What someone says they hear is not hard evidence except for the person that heard it - or think they did. We have other areas of electronics far more sensitive than a home HiFi system. Test gear in advanced research labs. NASA applications where signals from deep space probes are received, the broadcast and mastering industry. None of these highly critical electronic applications subscribe to these audiophile power cord cable theories. I know that because I work in the professional electronics industry. However there is even more glaring proof anybody can see. If these power cords were used in the applications I mentioned above, don't you think the vendors would be all over that in their marketing schemes? Come on, they would beat such an application example to death to sell more power cords. We don't see that! There is no accredited* data to support what these power cord vendors claim. Now in this age of cell phones that make the Star Trek communicator look silly in it's capabilities, 4K TV over a slow internet connection, and most recently the surge in AI, do you honestly believe the electronics professionals of today and their forefathers do not understand everything significant about a power cord? *accredited means research papers by scientists and engineers with traceable education credentials as well as peer review by their fellows. That does not mean an article in Stereo Review or the Absolute sound!

@Justin-fy7xk

Жыл бұрын

Yes i agree with you 100%.Theres something very wrong here. Paul goes on about how important it is to have screened mains cable and how it is the most important thing you have to do to stop interference getting to your equipment. How come a very high end audio company dont believe in shielded mains cables. That company is from the UK and is called Naim. Yes they also sell snake oil $600 dollar mains cables. Why do they say a shielded cable will degrade the sound. Something not right here guys.

@andydelle4509

Жыл бұрын

@@Justin-fy7xk Well shielded power cords are not snake oil. The are used where RFI is a concern.But you can buy a good UL listed shielded power for less than $25. And it's highly doubtful the average residential location has RFI levels that would require a shielded power cord and on top of that, if the house is wired with plastic cable, putting a 6 foot shielded cord on the component will do virtually nothing because of the 50-100 foot antenna in the walls.

@Justin-fy7xk

Жыл бұрын

@@Douglas_Blake Exactly Doug. There should at least be a limit to what they charge. Nordost have one for sale at a whopping $20,000. Wheres the sense in that.

If a power cord made any difference to the sound of an audio system it would show up in measurements. Show me the measurements and I'll believe it. I don't understand why you muddy your otherwise decent product line with snake oil. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to considering PS Audio purchases.

Our science is also incomplete and will not hash out everything we hear

@AT-wl9yq

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't put it that way. There are things we can hear that can't be measured. But does that mean science can't be used to prove a difference? Of course it can. A well done listening test can be just as valid as a formula. Just taking a product that you don't believe makes a difference and measuring it in some way that you come up with as proof, is junk science. Proper science requires you to follow the evidence. That means in order to do real science, you have to test actual evidence directly. That's what the deniers refuse to do. For example, have you ever seen a skeptic do any type of real research involving claims made by someone? The claim is the evidence. In order to do real science, the claim has to be researched, and the person (or people) making the claim have to be a part of the testing. You have to test people that claim to hear a difference under the same conditions the claimed differences can be heard. Its the very definition of the scientific method. Doing it any other way, isn't science. Several months ago, I was talking to Gene from Audioholics about this very issue. He's a well known skeptic in the audio community. After some back and forth, I finally got a real answer out of him. I was pushing him on the idea of doing real science, as opposed to doing measurements that are not based on evidence. The answer he gave me was, its too much trouble. So, the end result is, we can use real science to settle the debate. The skeptics don't want the truth. They want to win the argument. And if they tell you we should provide the testing and evidence and testing because its out claim, its nonsense. We've tried many times to do this, and always end up with the same results. Unless our tests deliver the results they want, its a flawed test and they won't accept the results.

@AT-wl9yq

Жыл бұрын

@Douglas Blake There is a reason everyone that comes into contact with you thinks you're a pile of garbage. (And I'm being nice as far as my wording goes.) "You were pushing the idea of doing your science ... one that appears to be totally disconnected from reality." Quote me. If I said something that ridiculous, show it to me. Here's your chance to prove what I just said about you is false. Let's see what you come up with,

Funny stuff. Of course you shill audio Questionable now. Stop the nonsense

To the deniers: Why do you use a shower head, when your water traveled miles to reach you?

@petesmith2234

Жыл бұрын

That analogy doesn’t work. The shower head is the appliance ie the amp or whatever. A better analogy would be to put a 3 inch diameter hose made of fancy material on your shower head and expect the pressure to improve when the water has traveled all through the rest of the house in 1/2 inch copper pipe.

@NoEgg4u

Жыл бұрын

@@petesmith2234 "That analogy doesn’t work." Yes, it does work. "The shower head is the appliance ie the amp or whatever." You might as well write that the shower head is the warp plasma injector, since you are trying to rearrange my words with nonsense. "A better analogy would be to put a 3 inch diameter hose made of fancy material on your shower head and expect the pressure to improve when the water has traveled all through the rest of the house in 1/2 inch copper pipe." Your attempt to conflate a fancy wrapping with functionality is transparent. Do you realize that I can read what you write? And giving your own rubbish comment a thumb's up does not lend credibility to your attempt at deception.

@petesmith2234

Жыл бұрын

@@NoEgg4u nope, the analogy doesn’t work. The shower head is an appliance which breaks the water up in small droplets. It’s clearly there to do that otherwise you’d just have water pouring out of a pipe. I fail to see how this is in any way analogous to an amplifier power cable. I’m glad you can read. I too can read, however the words I’m reading don’t make a lot of sense.

@NoEgg4u

Жыл бұрын

@@petesmith2234 Your attempt to recover from your absurd "a 3 inch diameter hose made of fancy material on your shower head and expect the pressure to improve when the water has traveled all through the rest of the house in 1/2 inch copper pipe" comment is noted. Also noted is that, this time, you did not give your own comment a thumb's up. The analogy of the shower head, after the water traveled miles, is that it serves the purpose that you described: "It’s clearly there to do that otherwise you’d just have water pouring out of a pipe.", and yet I see that I must spell it out for you. The shower head directs the flow of current, that was heretofore a chaotic flow. The power from the electric company is of a similar nature, where a quality power cable manages the flow into the stereo equipment. Yes, it actually does that. Public utility power is dirty power. Quality power cables are one of the tools that clean it up. The cleaner the power delivery to your equipment's power supplies, the better the power supplies will deliver power to the circuitry within each respective box. The result is better performing stereo equipment. The result is better sound quality.

@petesmith2234

Жыл бұрын

@@NoEgg4u A power cable just provides connectivity from A to B. It’s possible that a very long power cable would have enough inductance and capacitance to provide a minimal amount of filtering, but it would have to be so long that voltage drop would become a problem. If you want to clean up the power feed, you’re probably better off using a power filter rather than trying to get a cable to do the job. It’s possible a screened power lead might help reduce hum induced into the signal leads, but if that were really a problem, a better bet would be to use balanced audio leads and keep them away from the AC cables.

Dear Paul, you compromise your profession and reputation with this video. There are numerous testings and porves that fancy power cables DON'T change anything to better. Actually sometimes they make things to worse. If you are so conviced into power cables, you should do you what you acusing others that didn't and have expirience: MAKE TESTINGS AND SHOW US RESULTS! Why are you affraid of scientific test?? You earned enough money already to retire. Are you THE ONE that don't want to change your opinion? You said that you don't have all answers on subject but have few. And that's mother of all mistakes. THE worst possible situation is to have half informations. Thats a barrel of dinamite waiting to explode. Again, show us here with measuring tools that you certainly have in PS audio, how exactly power cables improve or detoriate current that goes throug them, and what are they actually made for. Thanks in advance. Regards from Croatia ŠČ

@Justin-fy7xk

Жыл бұрын

Theres something very wrong here. Paul goes on about how important it is to have screened mains cable and how it is the most important thing you have to do to stop interference getting to your equipment. How come a very high end audio company dont believe in shielded mains cables. That company is from the UK and is called Naim. Yes they also sell snake oil $600 dollar mains cables. Why do they say a shielded cable will degrade the sound. Something not right here guys.

@SpyderTracks

10 ай бұрын

Someone who can't afford decent cables therefor incorrectly states they don't make a difference. Try them for yourself, measurements can't count for what we hear, they can only show a tiny amount of information, they can't measure emotion that is what music is all about.

But PS in an engineering firm - so why are you talking about believers and deniers? Why can't you show measurements? How do you make requirements for your designs when you can't measure?