I think that computer scientist Eric S. Raymond's words are rather fitting here: "The most dangerous enemy of a better solution is an existing codebase that is just good enough".

@nandoflorestan

5 жыл бұрын

Myconix, the quote is great and Raymond is a very smart guy, but the real problem is ignorance about how much QWERTY sucks. There's a number of alternatives out there and they are all much better. Then you have to deal with these "keyboard deniers", none of whom ever tried a different keyboard... I am sure as hell never going back from Dvorak, when something is this palpable, there's no doubt.

@joestevenson5568

5 жыл бұрын

@@nandoflorestan Your arrogance regarding the statistically optimal typing solution is blinding you to the advantage QWERTY possesses: existing popularity. Whether this is deserved or not is irrelevant. Qwerty/Azerty is the most popular layout and so has unparalleled software, hardware, and educational support. Ignoring that is foolish.

@MrtinVarela

4 жыл бұрын

@@joestevenson5568 The Kardashians are very popular too, if you really want to go there.

@TheShizzlemop

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrtinVarela you completely disregarded the last half of joe's message, the " unparalleled software, hardware, and educational support" which was WHY he mentioned the popularity (in case you didnt get it yet, it has those things going for it BECAUSE its popular while the dvorak keyboard does not because it ISNT).regardless liking celebrities is not the same as preferring one technology over another. celebrities are there for social entertainment and connections, technologies (in this case) are there to get a job done. joe has a solid point in that the ease of learning something + its support can outclass a better product simply because its easier to learn and use because of available resources. for example lots of people love using iphones for their easy to use operating system, while phones using an android operating system allow for vastly superior customization. people still use the iphone because its just good enough and they dont need to do anything advanced while power users who do need the features would likely gravitate towards a phone thats android based, the reason it isnt a one sided market is that each base has its own audiences because the techs have large noticeable core differences, while the keyboard layout is just that, a different layout. it would be akin to the different operating systems only difference being the way its buttons and menus are displayed which no one would care about. the improvement the dvorak keyboard has is very minor in terms of overall efficiency, and doesnt drastically change anything about it so why would anyone use it since it has much less support, learning tools and is also harder to find on top of being lesser known?

@MrtinVarela

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheShizzlemop Would you give a tldr version?

How many takes until you caught that book?

@Toastybear1

8 жыл бұрын

+Ryan Lopez 1:41 for anyone who was about to search the entire video like i just did...... :L

@atiseru

8 жыл бұрын

+marcus allison That's so kind :)

@stonent

7 жыл бұрын

I wondered that too since he was looking at the camera.

@SamiJumppanen

7 жыл бұрын

That was cool indeed!

@tacconelli

6 жыл бұрын

he seems like a one-take wonder. betcha he caught it 1st try :)

QWERTY was not designed to slow down typists to avoid jamming, but the opposite: It was designed to _avoid_ _jamming_ _while_ _typing_ _at_ _speed_. The layout of the keys from left to right corresponded directly to the order of the type arms from left to right that they were mechanically linked to. Not only was it based on the most common letters being in the centre, but also for speedy typing of the most common two-letter combinations ("digraphs") in the English language. A couple letters were reordered for marketing purposes however: to allow salesmen to type the word TYPEWRITER using only the top row. The letters I and O were next to each other because they were used for digits 1 and 0.

@2awesome292

7 жыл бұрын

But couldn't it just as easily moved the location of the letters on the typewriter? (replace qwerty at both ends with ,.pyfg?

@Ussurin

7 жыл бұрын

Not in old typewriters, which were mechanical based. Arms of the "keys" had different length and were put at different angle. You would need to produce new froms for the letters you want to swap.

@andrew_li

5 жыл бұрын

I would argue that you're wrong. In the qwerty layout, you've still got some of the most common combinations of letters near or right beside eachother: "er", "th". If it was truly made to avoid jamming while typing at speed, all of the more commonly used letters would be spread outward, especially vowels. But we don't see that on the layout.

@vw4x4

5 жыл бұрын

Findecanor You are correct.... the engineer guy missed the point completely here.

@dieblauebedrohung

5 жыл бұрын

@@humilulo to, I'm wondering: the SKL was designed with the english language in mind. But I for example am German. So probably other characters are more common in my language. so the question would remain for me: is Dvorak's Keyboard Layout still preferable to me?

Many, many years ago, I tried Dvorak. After a few frustrating days, I got right back to my usual 120wpm. After another two weeks, I was still at 120wpm. That seems to be my brain-to-fingers speed limit regardless of key layout. So if you're slow with Qwerty, practice more. Dvorak may seem better on paper, but the mental dissonance of switching layouts whenever you use a different computer or interface will slow you down far more than any academic benefit of the key layout.

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

Sorry to correct you - especially after 3 years .... but realize: *Fact* (the military commissioned the Dvorak, and their tests are accurate): Dvorak doubles (200%) your typing speed in 1 year. Fact: It is a cure for Carpal-tunnel syndrome. (this is a *huge* worth) 3) It is a "secure" solution - if you want someone staying off of your computer, they will. I use Dvorak, and nobody wants to use mine. Mission accomplished! Also, people spend tens of thousands on a car - is that new car waaaaaay better? (no - in some cases, computers fail more, and there are flaws not realized yet). If you type 120 on Qwerty, you *will* type 240 on a Dvorak. All tests prove it. I took the challenge, and indeed, mine increased 100%. But I had to go through that first month (gruelling!) and after 1 year, I was there! Also, your wrists will not hurt!

If people stay on QWERTY because Dvorak only offers a 5% speed increase, they're missing the point of the new keyboard. Dvorak isn't meant to turn you into a blazing fast typist (though that speed boost is kinda nice). It's meant to make typing less strenuous so it's easier to type for longer and without so much effort.

@gabelance1

8 жыл бұрын

Legend Length Exactly. I switched to Dvorak a little more than a year ago, and even though it hasn't resulted in a huge speed increase I'm glad I took the time to learn it. It's too bad most people aren't willing to put in the work to learn a WAY more efficient method of typing.

@JuanLeTwnz

8 жыл бұрын

+Gabe Lance Wouldn't it mean that you had to change the keyboard layout for every title if you are were gamer? Might be one of the reasons...

@gabelance1

8 жыл бұрын

Meh, I haven't had much of a problem with it. You have to realize: 1. Not all games require you to type, and thus don't require you to change keyboards. 2. Most games have customizable controls, so you can change things to work with Dvorak. I suppose it is a bit of a hassle to deal with, but when I'm both a college student who writes a lot of papers and just someone who likes to surf the web (and thus type) a lot, it's worth it. But that's just me, I suppose.

@HeatherSpoonheim

8 жыл бұрын

+JuanLeTwnz If you type in multiple languages, the change to Dvorak becomes exponentially harder.

@OscarVilaplana

8 жыл бұрын

+Heather Spoonheim Eh... no. You can use the same base layout for them all. I type in 5 languages using Dvorak (English, Catalan, Dutch, French and Spanish). I use the same layout for them all, English, and I use to enter the accented characters. I use Ukelele in OSX to set this up, with this configuration: github.com/grimborg/eudvorak

Woah could you talk about that mobile keyboard? It looks neat! Also, didn't know dvorak was only about a 5% improvement haha

@engineerguyvideo

9 жыл бұрын

That's my iPhone I'm using there. You can get it from the app store. I have nothing to do with that app or the company, was just testing out alternatives .... there is a lot of fascinating ones.

@PropaneWP

9 жыл бұрын

5% is not to be scoffed at, especially now in the computer age. It represents a significant amount of time and money. However, from the video it seems like the difference in efficiency is based on people who don't type touch and are dependent on looking at their keyboards. It would be interesting to know what the differences are (if any) with using touch typing.

@engineerguyvideo

9 жыл бұрын

PropaneWP My recollection from the article cited is that it was for proficient typists, but then that's why I put the full citation there so people could dig deeper. I didn't mean to imply that the difference in efficiency was based on people who cannot do touch typing ....

@PropaneWP

9 жыл бұрын

***** Ok. I read too much into the mention of keyboard field of view. Thanks for the reply.

@engineerguyvideo

9 жыл бұрын

PropaneWP Now I see what you got it ... not unreasonable ... thx for replying this is helpful to me . . . .

I have used dvorak for about 8 years now and I don't think I type much faster with it, if at all. However, it's sooo nice to have many of the letters on home row. It's so nice to not have to constantly move my hands up and down rows. It definitely feels like it was engineered to be comfortable.

@orukarm

2 ай бұрын

Must make playing video games a pain though

What I've heard is that the story about the typewriter keyboard layout being deliberately confusing in order to slow down typists and thus prevent jams is an urban myth. Yes, the keyboard was designed to prevent jams, but not by slowing down the typists. It was designed in such a way that the most commonly used successive letters were as far apart as reasonably possible, meaning that the printing hammers were less likely to be close together for a long time, leading to less chance of the hammers jamming against each other.

@asanisi

9 ай бұрын

In fact, Qwerty speeds up typing compared to alphabetic arrangement, since frequently-used sequences of letters are typed with both hands. Afaik Dvorak placed even more emphasis on the sequences, but this time optimized for the rollover of the fingers, such that they're easier to type with less movement.

@santa_claus-north_pole

27 күн бұрын

Well, you can argue that point with Dr Dvorak, and the IT people of the 30's. Just so you know - octane (C8H14) _slows_ the combustion .... everyone thinks it makes it burn _faster_ . I've learned to just laugh people off, and know it's "good enough" for me to know the truth. it sure has been difficult over Corona - with everyone telling me that I "know nothing" when predicted the closures and it coming here. Although I_should_ have made huge bets, my premise now is: will they ever apologize - now that we all know *they* were wrong (it _did_ come here, and there _were_ closures)?? A: not a _chance_ . Human nature is "needing to be right, and when you are wrong, run like a wombat.". Me - I admit when I'm wrong. Must be a girl thing. Men are too stubborn. That darned Y chromosome.

I use Dvorak! I hadn't learned to touch-type, so I didn't have any qwerty experience. I decided to learn Dvorak instead, and now no one can use my computer except me, heh.

@bahrudinahsanuliman5294

3 жыл бұрын

Preaty sure that everyone can use mouse

@evertonc1448

3 жыл бұрын

@@ENXJ because 100% of people work with computers and go to university, right, Albert Einstein? Imagine trying to be so much of a online contrarian this small detail didn't cross your mind, what a 🤡.

@miles2142

3 жыл бұрын

@@evertonc1448 calm your titties

@Shotblur

3 жыл бұрын

@@ENXJ the ability to change keyboard layout in software is supported by every major operating system and worst case scenario you can just bring your own keyboard.

@d3j4v00

3 жыл бұрын

@@ENXJ I use both and liken it to driving automatic or manual transmission in a car, it takes a few moments when you sit down to figure out which one you're using but a few minutes into the operation the muscle memory takes over.

Its not only about the speed improvement though, it is also more comfortable for your hands which is actually a huge deal if you use a keyboard often.

@leogama3422

3 жыл бұрын

An less typos

@IrishCarney

Жыл бұрын

@@AG-ur1lj It's hard to articulate but Dvorak "flows" better. It's more like rolling downhill

@IrishCarney

Жыл бұрын

@@bobbymurray9015 Right

@asanisi

9 ай бұрын

Exactly. The author should look up the Workman layout: its page has neat illustrations showing how Qwerty has frequently-used keys in the top row, and ‘A’ under the pinky. While ‘A’ is not fixed in the other layouts, Dvorak, Colemak and Workman all cluster other frequently-used keys under the fingers in the resting position, and require less movement. Afaik in Dvorak the keys are also arranged such that popular two-letter sequences are easier to type.

I'm typing this with my voice right now

@dave5194

6 жыл бұрын

what's your wpm? :p

@Dorumin

6 жыл бұрын

Typing speed is faster than how fast I'm allowed to talk without voice recognition fucking up ;D

@augustsmith9553

6 жыл бұрын

It’s important for the modern person to have a comprehension of everything from cursive to Dictaphone or you will be left in the dust

@burthollabaugh2182

6 жыл бұрын

Your average Brit & Whovian : Are you a robot?

@mickjager5974

5 жыл бұрын

I just thought about this replya dn my computer typed it! It aint prefet yet!

2019. We still use the QWERTY arrangement on smartphones, even for continuous one-finger swipe typing, because everyone has internalized the pattern. Long-lived meme, there; nowhere near dead.

@Mandydeth

3 жыл бұрын

Actually QWERTY makes more sense on mobile than DVORAK. Having all the vowels in a similar cluster would lead to many typos using autocorrect. It's beneficial on a phone keyboard for the same reasons QWERTY was beneficial on a typewriter, ironically.

@screamtoasigh9984

3 жыл бұрын

They could have taught us a different layout when we still had typing classes in school. Most of us would not have known any better if we were taught Dvorak.

@alerey4363

3 жыл бұрын

QWERTY is only useful for physical keyboards; all touch keyboards are flawed because you can't type without looking where you put your fingers on; so it's the same if you use a qwerty or a draw-based input (like Palm Pilot's in the 2000s)

@dreamcanvas5321

3 жыл бұрын

@@alerey4363 While it's true you have to look at digital keyboards, QWERTY has the advantage of being a pattern most people know, and thus can efficiently find the letters they're looking for.

@alerey4363

3 жыл бұрын

@@dreamcanvas5321 nope, you need physical cues for your key fingers to go "homing" position (i.e. F and J letters in qwerty physical keyboard); on a flat touch screen this is impossible, you need to keep looking

Keyboard warriors fought for the change, but as we know they never achieve anything.

@fukawininetynine5999

3 жыл бұрын

😄 clever

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

People don't want "functional" - they want "cool". People go where advertising takes them. We call them "robots". But the masses - *are* ...... I have used Dvorak for 9 years, and I would _never_ go back to QWERTY.

@solohalo2954

27 күн бұрын

@@santa_claus-north_pole what a clown

@santa_claus-north_pole

27 күн бұрын

@@solohalo2954 Thank you for that compliment. Einstein, Jesus, and all others - have been called that exact thing. Again, I thank you, and I pray that you will get a brain cell one day. We need to have you *earn* your halo .... even if only you (solo).

@santa_claus-north_pole

27 күн бұрын

1) it's "achieved", not "achieve". 2) hydrogen never caught on, but we all know it's superior. 3) people once laughed at flat screens, mobile telephones ... too bad you weren't there to tell them they "never achieve anything". OK, I go now. We see.

I have been touch typing Dvorak since 2001 at around 80WPM (400 characters per minute, 6 characters per second). Before that, I have been touch typing qwerty for many years. The main difference when moving to Dvorak is not that you can type faster (the difference is not that impressive) but how easy and flowing it feels. There is much less combinations in English language that are awkward on Dvorak than on qwerty.

The fun part of the dvorak layout is when other people use your keyboard. It's sometimes like the fabric of reality has been violated. "I press this key that says one thing, but a different thing happens. THIS ISN'T NORMAL!"

@russellkanning

3 жыл бұрын

I call it my hardware encryption

@kooringagnd

3 жыл бұрын

@Russel Kanning, Sort of like a manual gearbox in some suburbs around the world being used as an anti-theft device in cars.🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

@SpencerLemay

3 жыл бұрын

You don't rearrange your keys?

@johnspooner1403

3 жыл бұрын

@@SpencerLemay - Nah. At first I did it to force myself to learn touch typing, now I don't care. Plus I still use QWERTY keyboard shortcuts for Adobe apps - force of habit. I don't type while using those apps, so I just switch the keyboard back.

@matheuscirillo36

3 жыл бұрын

Every one that uses my computer says: "OH My gOD yOuR KEyboARd is BrOKen"

The bottleneck for typing speed is primarily neurological rather than physical I think- but if Dvorak can make things more comfortable, I think that's something that should be studied in depth. That being said, a 5% difference can be massive over a lifetime. If you were typing up a novel over an entire year, you could complete it two and half weeks sooner- which doesn't sound like much, but that's the difference between stressing out over an impending deadline and comfortably finishing on time.

when i saw these new vids pop up in my subs feed, i cannot tell you how happy it made my day, your book by the way was excellent reading, i look forward to more.

Dvorak may be only a small increase in speed but for me it's been a massive increase in comfort. I used to get quite severe hand pains from long typing sessions, and I may well have been on my way to an RSI, but all that pain disappeared after switching to Dvorak.

@orukarm

2 ай бұрын

This sounds like an infomercial pitch

@DissociatedWomenIncorporated

2 ай бұрын

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I completely forgot about this channel but when I saw the videos in my subscriptions I instantly remembered. Excellent work as always!

So happy to see you are making videos again engineerguy. This was fascinating and answered a lot of questions I had, but never took the time to research. That's what I love about your channel, quick concise, factual, and the layman can understand it.

Dvorak - "I'm gonna change the world!" World - "GTFO"

@hattrickster33

7 жыл бұрын

GTFO is easier to type on QWERTY

@jakobholgersson4400

7 жыл бұрын

Wonder what the performance would be on a GTFO-keyboard :P

@jensrobot

7 жыл бұрын

+1 GTFO keyboard variant. Scientist! - Make it happen!!

@maskedmarauder5023

7 жыл бұрын

Dvorak - "I'm gonna change the world" World - "asdasdasdasdasd"

@851852093114208513

6 жыл бұрын

I like how even if it did become mainstream it would change nothing. Only people like court stenographers who spend their entire day typing at speaking speeds would make use of it, but they have their own separate layout which is faster anyway.

I've missed these vids, does this mean that engineer guy is back?!

@engineerguyvideo

9 жыл бұрын

Yes ... but I didn't really go anywhere ... we re-tooled the studio and worked (and am working) on some larger series .... we do have quite a few smaller things coming out too, though.

@GigaBoost

9 жыл бұрын

Hell yes! Welcome back!

@johnnytremp

9 жыл бұрын

***** Welcome back, Mark Hamill! ;D

@mail4asim

8 жыл бұрын

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. At least now I know I am not the only one :)

@Drachensingsang

7 жыл бұрын

I dont see it :/

I haven't been this excited for a new video from one my of subscriptions in a long time. Welcome back!

I type regularly on both Dvorak and QWERTY layouts, and can comfortably touch-type on either one. My personal experience is that Dvorak is about 75% faster for typing - I manage 70 WPM on Dvorak , but only 40 WPM on QWERTY. This is quite interesting considering that I started using Dvorak relatively recently, maybe 8 years ago, but have done QWERTY since I was a child and indeed had formal typing classes on it. There are some further wrinkles, though. Firstly, my Dvorak keyboard is not quite the standard staggered key layout, but is an ergonomic one with the keys laid out in a grid fashion, much like the numpad. This probably factors in to some extent. Originally when I learned Dvorak, I was using an ordinary keyboard remapped to the Dvorak layout. At this time, I found switching back to typing on QWERTY very difficult because learning the new layout scrambled my muscle memory. I could type naturally up to a fairly rare letter, something like B, where normally I might have a split second pause to remember where it was, only to find that I had no idea whatsoever, just as if I was learning from scratch, despite having used QWERTY for many years before that. After a few months, I got my present ergonomic keyboard, and suddenly I could switch back and forth between keyboards (the QWERTY ones being standard keyboards on other computers) without any problems. Apparently the slight differences in key alignment stopped the conflicts in my muscle memory. Very interesting. Another thing I've noticed is that while Dvorak is far easier and faster to type with most of the time, it's really, really bad if you have to do any 1 handed typing. This is due to one of the major design choices in the Dvorak layout - all the vowels are on one hand and all the common consonants are on the other. This improves typing since it means that alternating hands between letters is very common. This, however, is a worst case for 1 handed typing, since it means the vowels are on one side of the keyboard and the common consonants are on the other! The one really big reason stopping people from switching layouts is the sheer amount of time it takes to learn a new layout. In my case, it took about a year before I was typing on Dvorak as fast as I could with QWERTY, and while this is pretty impressive considering how long it took to get QWERTY there in the first place (and I indeed now type Dvorak faster than I ever could with QWERTY), a year is still quite a investment in terms of time!

@Keldor314

7 жыл бұрын

GAH! KZread ate all my newlines!

@jharris947

7 жыл бұрын

Excellent comment. Thank you,

@SalahEddineH

7 жыл бұрын

The KZread comment section is so full of idiocy that KZread can't afford to keep it indexed and searchable, there's just too many of them, and most of them are "first" or "I'm early". Seeing comments like yours, of which there are many, but are drowned by the other bullshit, really makes this a sad realization. I truly hope that at some point all these comments will be searchable. There are many testimonies and "tiny blog posts" in the comment section that would be an interesting read, for someone doing research into what people think or their experiences. Cheers!

@insederec

7 жыл бұрын

It only took me a month, and about two to get back up to ~70 WPM that I had with QWERTY. Guess it depends on how fast you learn and how much you type really.

@Theodore042

7 жыл бұрын

There are 1 handed Dvorak keyboard layouts for either hand. They might even come with Windows these days.

I use Colemak which is the 3rd most common English layout. Like Dvorak it puts the most used keys on the home row, but keeps other legends (such as , . ] in the same places. It's hardly faster, but way easier.

The standard mobile japanese keyboard uses a similar one to the one you showed at the end. It's called 12 key. In japanese, you can group syllables together under a group of usually 5 syllables, they start with the same letter but end in a different vowel. Either a, i, u, e, o. Each swipe direction corresponds to a different vowel. It's a neat keyboard.

I wouldn't say the early worker studies are elitist.. we still do this today in modern factories. Often workers cannot find the best way to do something on their own. Not only for speed but also for ergonomics. Often the way most would approach a job leads to injury over the long term. Work studies and standard work are fundamentals of any modern factory.

@makego

11 ай бұрын

This type of study is in my domain as a Human Factors Engineer. What I would note is that line workers should always be consulted for what they have learned about their job that you may not understand from outside; they have quite a bit of tacit knowledge about why they've chosen to do things a certain way. It is elitist to just come in and tell them what they're doing is wrong and dictate to them a "better" way you've devised from outside observation. The best solutions are collaborative and more likely to be adopted, coming with a sense of recognition and co-ownership.

@skootties

11 ай бұрын

@@makego I also had a similar thought to that of the OP, but ended up with a similar conclusion to yours. Finding good solutions to human problems is always going to involve multiple perspectives.

One thing that's unlikely to be a coincidence is that the top row of letters contains all the letters of the word "typewriter". a trademark at the time.

am i the only one who is really fucking impressed with that book grab at 1:41?

@mrreymundo5383

7 жыл бұрын

I was impressed with whoever threw it to him!

I learned the Dvorak layout mostly just to keep myself entertained while typing out writing assignments in college, but I ended up preferring it and I've been using it for around 6 years now. I still recognize that it's kind of goofy. It's pretty funny when someone expecting QWERTY tries to use my keyboard though.

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

Me, too, Michael - same outcome. I'm so glad I switched to Dvorak!

I enjoyed this video a lot, I wish there were more videos like this. Thank you so much!

Thanks Bill! Thanks for showing our keyboard, MessagEase keyboard, as an example of an innovative keyboard. MessagEase (on Google Play Now) has the honor to be the Dvorak of the touch screen keyboards! While Dvorak showed up DECADES after the QWERTY was settled in, for touch screens we are confident that the early users quickly see the clear advantages and differences: Fewer, Larger Buttons => fewer errors and faster typing with one hand. Give it a try and you'll see! Our top speed, dictionary unassisted, completely WYTIWYG speed is more than 100WPM! And that's on a small touch screen.

4 engineer guy videos all at once? CHRISTMAS CAME EARLY!

Dvorak is a fascinating concept, and I've made a few halfhearted attempts to learn it over the years. The problem is, the only way this would be useful is if every device I used was also Dvorak. They're not, so the chances are I'd just be giving up years of building QWERTY skills and end up being slower on both.

@IAmMeThatIsYou

Жыл бұрын

no

@davidmiller9485

Жыл бұрын

@@IAmMeThatIsYou yes

I think a person's typing speed is mostly a matter of their brain's processing speed. The real benefit of the Dvorak layout is wrist health and comfort. I used to constantly experience pain in my wrists from long periods of typing. After switching to Dvorak 8 years ago, I have yet to experience pain from typing (and I often type for hours on end). I'm not exaggerating. I went from unbearable pain to zero pain. The process of relearning to type was long and debilitating, and using another person's computer is now problematic, but the elimination of wrist pain was absolutely worth it. If you're interested in making the switch, you don't need to buy a new keyboard. You can change the keyboard layout in your OS settings right now.

boy look how thick that smartphone is, tech has come a long way in 5 years since this was posted

@GradyPhilpott

4 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. There probably no other device on the planet that demonstrates the advance of technology so succinctly.

@alan-daniel

3 жыл бұрын

haha me too. I think it's a little exaggerated by the case that it's in, though

@RobBCactive

3 жыл бұрын

Yep, I'm typing on QWERTY & AZERTY despite it not being a keyboard I can touch type on. In the past I really disliked virtual keyboards layed out like typewriters as the finger training doesn't help find the keys to click/tap on.

@490o

3 жыл бұрын

It's a battery case.

I'm glad I moved to Dvorak. Took a few weeks to really get natural with it but it is so much more comfortable to type than QWERTY. I think I also type faster than I did with QWERTY but I'm not too bothered about that. Interestingly for a month or so I completely forgot how to type QWERTY but now I can type both.

@nandoflorestan

5 жыл бұрын

[sic] you have just described my experience too.

Funnily enough, Dvorak was what finally made me succeed in learning to touch-type. As many people, I was pretty fast with my hunt-and-peck typing and conversion was so annoying that I just always slipped back to my old way of typing. With Dvorak, however, watching the keyboard simply wasn't an option since it was lying to me. So I _had_ to learn. That conversion wasn't annoying, it was outright painful. But I believe if I hadn't done it, I would still not be able to touch-type.

@seigeengine

9 жыл бұрын

Personally, learning to touch type was just a natural extension of learning how it works. No matter what (physical, mostly) you do, if you do it enough, you get to a point where you no longer need to really think about it. Of course, every so often I stumble, start getting confused, look down, and then panic because I've worn half the letters off this keyboard, an have to just press buttons I think are in the right area until I find the letter I'm looking for and can resume touch typing. xP

@AltayHunter

9 жыл бұрын

Penny Lane I had a similar experience as you. I tried to learn to touch type on the qwerty layout for many years, but couldn't get used to the discomfort. It was just too strenuous to get used to. However, when I switched to Dvorak I actually rearranged my keys so that I didn't need to learn to touch type. Nevertheless touch typing came naturally to me on Dvorak, and I no longer bother to rearrange the keys on my more recent keyboards. There are two reasons people try Dvorak: to type faster or to type more comfortably. Generally, those who can touch type on qwerty are comfortable enough on it that switching to Dvorak is not worth the investment. On the other hand, those who switch for comfort rarely look back. I've been using Dvorak exclusively (except on my phone) for about eight years and the only other layout I find alluring is Colemak, mostly because it keeps shortcuts (e.g. Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V) in their traditional locations while providing the same benefits as Dvorak.

@messagease2094

9 жыл бұрын

from Wikipedia: ... Writer Barbara Blackburn was the fastest English language typist in the world, according to The Guinness Book of World Records. Using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard, she was able to maintain 150 words per minute (wpm) for 50 minutes, and 170 wpm for shorter periods. She has been clocked at a peak speed of 212 wpm.

@GraveUypo

6 жыл бұрын

i think i already started typing with touch typing when i bought my first computer back in 1994. i've used a keyboard with every single label completely worn out for years and i've only noticed that when someone else sat down on my computer and complained about it. this one is already wearing out too. at the weirdest keys. L and > are gone. i have no fucking idea why, i don't use either that often.

@paintedwings74

5 жыл бұрын

That's my experience as well. I touch-type now at about 50 wpm. No speed-demon, me. But before I switched to Dvorak, my best speed after 10 years of typing was about 25 wpm. The benefits are much greater for some people than for others.

I used to hate typing on a touch keyboard, but Swype ended up making it possible to "type" faster than I could on a normal keyboard.

Back in the Palm Pilot PDA days, I used this keyboard layout called fitaly, which was optimized for typing with a stylus. You could say it was also for one finger typing, so I looked into how to bring it into my Android phone. Found a keyboard that allowed custom layouts and created a fitaly layout for it. There was even a keyboard layout for the Palm Pilot where the keys were hexagonal shaped so each key had the same distance with the ones near it, and I think it was called funady.

I taught myself Dvorak in college. I was just starting to get "fluent" in it when I needed to use someone else's computer. That caused me to "hunt and peck" the qwerty. I then realized that this would be a problem thought-out my life, even if I kept a laptop (etc) with me at all times. Therefore, I reverted.

@horsemumbler1

3 жыл бұрын

It takes less than a minute to set up a new computer for Dvorak, and about a second to switch back and fourth thenafter.

Him: "I'm Bill Hammack, the Engineer guy" My brain: "Sentry goin' up"

@Achiles5th

3 жыл бұрын

Bill Nye "The Science Guy" vs "Bill Hammack "The Engineer Guy". Two Will enter, One will leave, Who will WIN!!!!

+engineerguy I note the metric of 'speed' is only part of the story. For me, learning new layout that is easier has led to a lot less 'mistakes''... Equally I have heard that RSI injury // 'overstretched fingers'' can also be reduced much with layout change...

I used to type Dvorak for two years, but switched to NEO, because it suits better for German. Takes a few weeks, but it's worth learning it. It's not only about the speed, but the reduced finger strain. It feels more fluid, even if I may not really be faster. (I don't do benchmarks of my typing) Luck for me, I can use NEO at work, too. Switching from NEO to QWERTZ is instantaneous. I wished Dvorak would have been adopted a bit more, so that it would have been developed to fit better for non-US layouts and left handed people. I mean, there is even Dvorak for one-handed.

I have to dispute the main thrust of the argument presented. I have personal experience using the Dvorak layout. In 1990, having capped at 68 wpm with qwerty regardless of how much I practiced, I switched my work pc to a Dvorak keyboard. For two weeks I was virtually crippled by my muscle memory making me choose the wrong key as I typed. Then I relearned the map and within another three weeks had equaled my 68wpm. I popped the caps on my laptop and switched those as well. That was in the days of easily popped keycaps. I changed my home pc also. Within another month I had finally crossed the 100wpm threshold on Mavis tests I used in my spare time. I averaged 95wpm in the real world. I wrote a lot of management reports and *finally* could type at closer to my speed of mental composition. It was liberating. I was more accurate as well because Dvorak moved odd keys to the periphery. Then laptops took over and hard-to-pop key caps predominated. My colleagues didn't switch because they couldn't envision relearning or even harder, unlearning what they already knew. The reason Dvorak failed wasn't because it was limited to 5% improvement. It was much more. I suspect those studies used subjects that spent little time unlearning and relearning, as it's a major investment, and hence they yielded only a 5% gain. But within 90 days i had realized a 40% gain and benefitted for well over a year before upgrading to models that made Dvorak difficult. You can't mix. If any pc you type on uses qwerty, Dvorak speed plummets because that speed requires automatic response. The key would be to have taught typing in schools in Dvorak. Same with Esperanto. Teach everyone worldwide this common language as their second language. Then we can all communicate. But the initial investment is high. So we live in a world of fragmented languages and I type at 65wpm and have for decades now.

@88michaelandersen

7 жыл бұрын

You went from 68 to over 100, but people who were already over 100 have less room for improvement. It took you weeks to get back to where you were before the switch. It has a lot to do with individual perceptions of expected improvement. The bigger the expected improvement, the more likely a person is to switch. That means that the people who are really good, and the people so do not expect to be very good are the least likely to switch.

@Metatr0n

7 жыл бұрын

Well, on typing competitions back in the day all the ladies and secretaries that learned Dvorak dominated. That was until Dvorak layout was banned from the competitions. And if something is banned from a competition because it always wins, I'm quite certain that it must be good.

@gavinkemp7920

7 жыл бұрын

Metatr0n yes but at a competitive level 5℅ is huge. i mean i expect that difference to be larger than the skill difference

@thenewovermind

7 жыл бұрын

I switched to dvorak a few years ago and just bought little stickers/labels that fit on the keys. Easiest fix out there if you don't have a keyboard you can take apart.

@gravijta936

7 жыл бұрын

If you could type at 100 WPM, then would you really need to rearrange the labels of each key? Just switch the keyboard to Dvorak via software... Seems fishy to sacrifice "40% gain" due to the inability to pop the keys.

I believe that the speed typing its important but you cant forget the health of the wrist. which was the main reason to change to dvorak and i have to say as a software programmer that dvorak really helped me with my wrist problems.

Bill "The Hammer" Hammack does it again. Thank you Bill for another round of great videos. Keep doing what you do

Thanks for the video, man. I was once thinking about trying Dvorak keyboard, but I'm too used to QWERTY and Iam completely satsfied with my typing speed.

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

Sorry to correct you - especially after 8 years .... but realize: *Fact* (the military commissioned the Dvorak, and their tests are accurate): Dvorak doubles (200%) your typing speed in 1 year. Fact: It is a cure for Carpal-tunnel syndrome. (this is a *huge* worth) 3) It is a "secure" solution - if you want someone staying off of your computer, they will. I use Dvorak, and nobody wants to use mine. Mission accomplished! Also, people spend tens of thousands on a car - is that new car waaaaaay better? (no - in some cases, computers fail more, and there are flaws not realized yet). I took the challenge, and indeed, mine increased 100%. But I had to go through that first month (gruelling!) and after 1 year, I was there! Also, your wrists will not hurt! Dvorak is *far* better.

Before watching: because standardization beats efficiency.

@kinnikuzero

4 жыл бұрын

bcubed72 same with measurement systems

@abyssstrider2547

4 жыл бұрын

@@kinnikuzero Only in USA though

@ryanm.191

3 жыл бұрын

That is an awful but true point

@bangscutter

3 жыл бұрын

For it to worth changing standardisation for efficiency, there needs to be a significant improvement in performance. 5% improvement just isn't enough for people and keyboard manufacturers to change to a new standard.

@TassieLorenzo

3 жыл бұрын

@@bangscutter Built to order computers like Macbooks could offer a DVORAK option on the order form perhaps, while both QWERTY and DVORAK keyboards could be stocked side-by-side in Apple stores for desktops? :)

I have been using Dvorak for several decades. Even before PC came. The first one was IBM Selectric typewriter with a Dvorak typing ball. Next, I had the typewriter modified into Dvorak arrangement so that I could use any IBM Selectric typing balls. When IBM PC came on in 1980's, I had to wait until a key remapping program became available. Now it is easily supported by Windows OS. I would never go back to QWERTY. I have typed several book length material. QWERTY could have killed me with hand strain. For last 10 years or so, I have been using TypeMatrix typewriter which allows to toggle in and out of Dvorak layout without going through Windows language setup. Qwerty should have been dead, but reality is like the way things are - dead men walking without knowing they are dead.

@jdlessl

9 жыл бұрын

Same here, though not until 2004 or so. My wrists stopped hurting almost immediately after switching, and as a bonus, it discourages anyone else trying to use my computer. Only hassle is laptop keyboards (use stickers) and quite a few PC keyboards that are oddly resistant to moving the keys around.

@SeabasR

9 жыл бұрын

all i have to do is hold ctrl and press shift to switch between Dvorak and Qwerty on win8 EDIT: that is, after you have added the keyboard in the settings

@ecausarano

9 жыл бұрын

Jared Lessl the reason is that caps in detached keyboards are profiled, with each row having different heights and angles. Rearranging the keys to a different layout will weak havoc (see www.keychatter.com/keycaps/#profiles) So get a mechanical keyboard with detachable caps and replace its keys with a set having a "DSA" profile, where every row has the same height and angle.

@sekkusupisutoruzu

7 жыл бұрын

TurtleShroom What, youre here? Wow, the internet is such a small place.

A keyboard I love was the one used on the PS3. Wish that everything which lacks a keyboard had this available. Instead of having to move your cursor in random directions along an on-screen keyboard, your move your directional arrow keys toward what would likely follow next. Similar to Swype and T9 which is also pretty dang neat.

if you're programming then a great improvement is to move all the special characters to the altgr position on the regular keys, since altgr is so conveniently placed for your right thumb (unless you have one of those ridiculously long space bars) I also like to use a keyboard with the keys placed right above/below one another instead of "randomly" shifted left and right.

I type on Dvorak at home, and Qwerty at work. I'm a little faster on Dvorak, and overall I find it's just a more pleasant typing experience as there's a lot fewer awkward finger-movements to reach certain keys, since everything is arranged in a logical fashion. However the real upside to using a Dvorak keyboard is no one knows how to type on it, which makes it easy to cause guests to become baffled and distressed when I ask them to find a song for me on KZread while we're doing something together.

@RasPutintheGreat

5 жыл бұрын

Good for you

@user-xu1uu4ys3l

5 жыл бұрын

@@lukehome6206 Cool Beans, bro!

@thinhtranba5352

4 жыл бұрын

Where did you get the Dvorak? Did you build your own?

@KalOrtPor

4 жыл бұрын

You can get a good quality mechanical keyboard for a reasonable price and can change the keys and layout to Dvorak. Most gaming keyboards allow for this also.

I was already trained in high school how to use qwerty. I'm too used to it. Nowadays I use a phone where I can only use my thumbs. Because the keyboard on the phone is also qwerty I trained my thumbs to do all the work since I already know where all the keys are. But my thumbs are so big and the keys are so small and touchscreens are so sensitive I still end up having misspellings. I had to go through this word by word to make sure I typed this right. It's hard as it is. Changing the arrangement of the keys? I'd have no chance.

@supersaiyangandhi4481

4 жыл бұрын

i know that feeling

So glad you're back!!

We have smartphones with on-screen keyboards and they are mostly qwerty. Some updates like swipe keyboards can be helpful, but they also take a lot of time figure out.

Damn, wish Dvorak came first. Sounds like it could have staved off joint pains for another 3-5 years

1:29 What has the visual field to do with the arrangement of the keys? Typewriters were/are made for personnel trained to type blind.

@override7486

3 жыл бұрын

Really? Keyboards, sure, but I doubt typewriters were designed this way, where you have to precisely pick single letter and use big force (compared to todays keyboard, where no force at all is needed).

@georgemaragos2378

3 жыл бұрын

Hi, whey you first learn to type, you basically stare at the keyboard to find the keys, as you get better you look at the keyboard less each time. At school they teacher had one bit of advise, learn to type something you know and can spell. We all had to type out our name and address, for 30 mins As children when we visited offices and banks, the secretaries could talk and type or basically read of those upright A4 paper holders, basically read the hand written notes and type them on the screen, they would spend most of the time looking at the notes and barely looked at the keyboard - when finished they would read back and check for mistakes. The ones using dictaphones were just as good, headphones on and they just looked around the room while typing. More interesting now that there is now "mechanical keys to get jammed" i recall mid 80's again the QWERTY Vs the DVORAK issue came out again - maybe the apple mac had a option, but it was more of a argument of words with both sides claiming superiority. Personally, i had a coworker who with Win98 changed the settings and ordered a Dvorak keyboard because he heard it was better, one day i asked him at lunch and he said, you get used to it, most thingd in life are the same it is what you know best or grew up with Regards George

@RiggieHeartland

3 жыл бұрын

@@georgemaragos2378 I've done a lot of typing through the years. At one time I worked at a newspaper, when we typed in articles to the computer from manuscripts. Really we weren't thinking of what we were doing. We read the words on the paper, and almost automatically it went through our fingers. We were also able to talk with each other, when we were typing. And even today, many years later, I don't look at the keyboard when I'm typing.

Wasn’t there also another aspect of Dvorak that was not just that it was different, whether or not it was marginally better, it provided a window of interpretation, a break from a dogma? In early 2000s I tried Dvorak’s layout but what really caught my attention were two other alternatives, the single-hand layouts that are designed to facilitate ease for people with only one hand. I think that’s a tremendous significance. Wonderful video, very thought provoking.

great narrator, topics, content. Thank you

I'm a user of the DVORAK keyboard, not because of speed, but because of ease. I was never able, not in 25 years of typing, to grasp the ability to touch type. It was very difficult for me to learn the position of the keys and commit them to muscle memory. I was constantly looking at the keyboard. Once I tried DVORAK, that all changed. Touch typing happened within the first week. I was an instant fan, and I will not go back. The next miracle breakthrough came with the purchase of a matrix style keyboard, specifically the TypeMatrix 2020, then the 2030 when the first one wore out after many years. I carry this keyboard around with me in case I have to use someone else's computer. To me, the best approach to converting the masses is not by claiming faster typing, but in demonstrating the much faster ability for children to learn the standard. If the standard were endorsed by the public school system, the keyboard would change almost universally in less than one generation.

I'm sure there's a better way to do this in the digital age.. Physical keys have these limitations but layout could be drastically different now if somebody came up with a good enough reason for people to try it.

@Novusod

7 жыл бұрын

The real problem with both QWERTY and Dvorak is how long it takes to learn them. When these keyboard layouts were invented "typist" was professional job and only a very small percentage of the population ever learned to type. In the 21st century everyone is expected to type. It is the dominant form of communication. The best keyboard for the average Joe is the Alphabetical keyboard. All the letters are arranged in alphabetical order. People don't have to key hunt when it is alphabetical order.

@niklasgransjen684

7 жыл бұрын

Novusod But typing on QWERTY is much fast when you learn it, isn't it? Because you can use both hands to type, and often-used letters aren't all put together in a cluster

@teamrabbitalec

7 жыл бұрын

Alphabetical keyboards are not that good. Alphabetical keyboards have an unpredictability in layout vs. qwerty or Dvorak which have a set shape. I mostly know this from playing games so in case I am wrong don't be mad.

@humilulo

5 жыл бұрын

@@Novusod Well, not to burst your bubble.. okay, scratch that: i do mean to burst your bubble. the alphabetical order is not best for the average joe. its efficiency is even worse than the Qwerty. Dvorak is faster to learn than the Qwerty because it's simply more comfortable and thus less hand work (for English text). Dvorak has even been shown after the fact by independent researchers that it's the most efficient key layout (and thus more comfortable since it takes less hand movement). it's 3 times less hand effort than the Qwerty. and Qwerty is (a little) better than plain alphabetical. anyone who assumes alphabetical is best for the average Joe just hasn't done his or her homework. 😜

@TassieLorenzo

3 жыл бұрын

@@Novusod Children learn the QWERTY layout on the home computer when they are five or six years old though, then practise it some of their primary and most of their high school assignments, and have done so since the advent of the home computer & computers in school, so that's most Gen Y and Gen Z (presuming a typewriter that cannot play computer games was not quite as inviting to children in the 60's!). To learn an alphabetical keyboard later on seems unnecessary.

After initially teaching myself to touch type I heard about the world speed typing record and discovered that it was achieved using the Dvorak layout. I then spent about 70 hours re-learning how to type. Today, I'm no quicker at typing but it's a great conversation starter. Dvorak layouts are supported on both Mac and Windows - I love it when people try to type something on my machines ;)

Your channel is awesome! Just found it with your soda can video, and you've got a really cool channel. I've subscribed.

I'm using the Svorak which means the Swedish version of the dvorak, it might be so, that the speed isn't best benefit of it but more that it is so much more convenient to write on, because you have have the words letters on the opposite sides of the keyboard. Meanwhile the qwerty board it's like following a drunk spider. It took about two weeks to change from qwerty to dvorak, and nope! Im not turning back. And of course I'm not that type of guy that does things the correct way, but my way, and I'm stubborn as f when I put my mind to it.

Made me laugh when you just casually caught the book! Good video Bill :)

Now can you explain why there are variations on qwerty keyboards for different regions? I ordered an iPad external keyboard on eBay and got the U.S. Layout, it was different to the UK layout we see on British PC's and typewriters.

One big disadvantage of Dvorak is that typos are much more likely to result in other valid words, which can lead to greater confusion and more serious consequences down the road. In Qwerty, errors are more likely to result in gibberish, which is more easily recognized as an error.

Wow that's a brick of a phone.

@KOTYAR0

7 жыл бұрын

TheBetterGame You know, right? I love it

This series was great! Any plans for another someday?

glad to you have back in action engineerguy make more awesome video please :D

I tried to switch to Dvorak once, for a year. I gave up, the investment needed to get used to it might be OK. However, In a world where I not only use my computer ever only. I gets worse. I developed problems using a QWERTY. Go to the university, use a terminal there? Fail. Use the vending machine selling train tickets? Fail. Get in the bootloader of you notebook? Fail, no Dvorak there either etc. Its locked in technology, since everything would need to change at once...

@TheAnantaSesa

5 жыл бұрын

I must not be able to count. I get 8 permutations by 3+3 keyboard layouts in both languages then +2 for each spoken form. Its not 3^2 to equal 9, or am i just mistaken?

@TheAnantaSesa

5 жыл бұрын

If you cant access www.branah.com/dvorak to cut and paste then someone needs to make a keyboard w hardware that sends the proper signals of its’ dvorak layout. I mean type type a letter g in the dvorak location where u is on qwerty and the keyboard sends a g signal. Then absolutely no problem w any firmware level dialogue windows.

I feel like I should weigh in here. I've been on a Dvorak keyboard for about ten years now. Learning was tough but it was well worth it. I was a touch typist on a qwerty before I switched and I used to get about 75WPM, after switching to Dvorak I'm closer to about 95WPM. I consider that to be a pretty significant improvement but I understand why some would say it's not worth it. However there's one aspect of this that this video didn't seem to touch upon which is comfort. My fingers move a lot less while typing since all the most used keys are where they need to be and not somewhere else. I find that I can type at a high speed for a much longer period of time before feeling cramped over overworked. I used to have to slow down from time to time if I were writing out a big essay or something like that but now I can just bang through it without issue. What are your thoughts on this?

This guy is AWESOME. Greetings from UW Engineering in Canada!

Thanks for showing me the message ease keyboard. I never thought I could type blindly on my phone. (but again: the bad compromize of qwerty on touchscreens is still the most common touchscreen-layout around)

One thing that really doesn't help in the modern era is keyboard shortcuts. Keyboard shortcuts were very clearly designed under the assumption of QWERTY keyboards, as is the typical WASD control scheme (mostly used for gaming, but also for 3D model viewers and other work programs)

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

Those keyboard shortcuts still work - but the key is in a new place. I have used Dvorak for 9 years, and I find it far superior. Remember: the military commissioned the Dvorak - it was developed over 10 years - by a team of 11 Engineers and PhD Psychologists. Compare that to the QWERTY: 3 days, and it was a "hack". True fact.

First off, I know from experience why the Dvorak-Dealey Simplified Keyboard, (or DSK), was not adopted by many typists. Today, it's better known as the Dvorak keyboard, as August Dvorak outlived William L. Dealey, (its co-inventor), and continued to advocate its adoption until his death in 1975. I greatly admired this invention and thought that it was most unfortunate that Dvorak and Dealey had only tried to develop an English language keyboard. Fortunately, as a student at the University of Washington, in Seattle, I had access to their extensive research in the university's archives. Using their research, I applied the same principles towards the development of a French keyboard, but I also found some minor problems in the Dvorak-Dealey layout. August Dvorak declined to examine or to explain these problems, in 1972; so, I reviewed their work for what was the best arrangement for English, and, where there was no substantial advantage, the better arrangement for other languages, (French, Spanish, Italian, German, and Portuguese). The result of my studies was the "English Keyboard Scheme," (U.S. Patent 3,847,263). In the early 1970s, one couldn't buy a new typewriter with the DSK keyboard. A typewriter repairman was needed to change the typefaces around on a "Universal" (Qwerty) typewriter. Only a dedicated DSK typist spent this extra cost to obtain a better typewriter. No one manufactured them; no one would teach others to type on them, when they couldn't be bought; and, no business would use them, without their being available to purchase and without anyone skilled in typing on the DSK typewriters. It was easiest to rely on the "Universal" keyboard and avoid any conflict of new typists using a different machine than the older typists. The major stumbling block was the American National Standards Institute. The committee in charge of the typewriter keyboard knew the DSK was better, but the committee would give more attention to the placement of symbols with number keys than to the efficiency of a better arrangement of letter keys for the typist. When I presented my invention to ANSI's committee, it was given the same indifferent response as they had given to Dvorak's invention; and, unless I gave up "all claims" to my invention and my patent rights, the ANSI committee would not consider adopting my invention as an alternative to their standard keyboards. In Canada, the Canadian Standards Association wouldn't consider any keyboard innovation that didn't meet with the approval of the American National Standards Institute. The advantages of the DSK and my English Keyboard Scheme are not marginal improvements. Typing speeds would increase about 20% simply by eliminating most of the slowest typing patterns, which often break the rhythm of the typist's performance. And, this video completely overlooks the fact that the "Universal" or Qwerty keyboard puts the bulk of the typing under the typist's left hand. A right-handed typist is disadvantaged from the start, just as much as a "lefty" has trouble with right-handed equipment. I have continued my keyboard research with other languages and alphabets. The balance between vowels and consonants in the French language meant that my English Keyboard Scheme was as good for French, as it was for English, (and better than the DSK or any Qwerty keyboard). If bureaucrats, teachers, and businessmen refuse to consider a different keyboard for typists, it's not the fault of the inventors nor any failure of these inventions, it's their obstinate refusal to part with the Qwerty keyboard, (which was purposely designed to slow down the typist's speed and was obsolete more than a century ago). The DSK and my English Keyboard Scheme have right-handed and left-handed arrangements; the Qwerty doesn't. Why continue to use a left-handed typewriter, (or keyboard), when most typists are right-handed? Ask any golfer if they'd want to play the game using the wrong set of clubs; they'd refuse; but, they'll balk at converting from a Qwerty to a better keyboard.

@lifuranph.d.9440

5 жыл бұрын

Well said.

@clavierpixelkey650

2 жыл бұрын

What's the name of your keyboard layout? It seems you might want to check out the well-known French Bépo keyboard layout, if you haven't already.

For those of you worried about other languages or people with handicaps, the Dvorak layout attempts to handle those problems: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard I don't currently use Dvorak but I'd like to try since I have a keyboard with a hardware switch for it. The problem with software keyboard mapping is things like going down an RDP rabbithole or as another user mentioned, going to a lab in a university where your settings are not saved (or the VM is restored from a snapshot every day). Nevertheless, it seems very worthwhile considering issues I now have with carpal tunnel.

happy you'r back on youtube!

I learned QWERTY touch typing in 7th grade (1962) and went on to become a software developer. Around 2000 I started experiencing 'carpal tunnel' type pain in my wrists and took the opportunity of a job change to retrain myself to Dvorak. It took about 12 months to regain my 60+ words per minute speed with 95%+ accuracy. Since then, the pain is gone and I am convinced that minimizing the up and down motion required by QWERTY is why. YMMV.

@BollocksUtwat

7 жыл бұрын

I agree about it causing pain. Even if its not painful I feel the strain from the QWERTY pattern in my relatively young hands. Its also rather awkward in how it feels.

@GraveUypo

7 жыл бұрын

60wpm average or peak? that sounds a bit low to me, considering you're a programmer from such long date. but glad to hear dvorak helped you. notes: just took a test and did 91 wpm on the first try (454 cpm). if i remember correctly i can do over 120 if i concentrate and take the test a couple times more. but as i type this i notice i'm not trying to type as fast as i can so i'm at least 30% slower than i am taking the test. maybe in a normal situation i'm closer to 60 than i am to 100 wpm... or not, since the words are all in my mind and i don't have to waste concentration reading two words in advance from what i'm typing.

Anybody else type in Dvorak? Had some awesome fun at school changing the settings and watching people try to figure out how I could still type.

@langecrew

7 жыл бұрын

I switched to Dvorak about 11 years ago, and haven't looked back. It can be really funny to watch people stumble around on my computer

@Fervorum

7 жыл бұрын

Myself. Here, take a like.

@reignandbongao9497

7 жыл бұрын

langecrew same. I love seeing people struggle in using my phone/keyboard

@coppercopter947

6 жыл бұрын

I am also a dvorak user. That after many, many years of very fast QUERTY typing that almost ruined my joints. My joints at least don't hurt now. Take that for what it's worth...

@horsemumbler1

3 жыл бұрын

My parents tried for years to get me to touch type qwerty. They gave me all sorts of training programs and had me do loads of drills, and none of it ever stuck; it was just so illogical. I got tired of it all, so one night I taught myself to touch type Dvorak in 4 hours start to finnish, with a break for dinner in-between.

There's also something else no one brings up. With the mouse and GUI, keyboard typing speed is rarely the limiting factor in your work (and even less so in games). If a 5% increased speed of typing equated to a 5% increase in word accomplished, I imagine many more professionals would adopt the different layout. But whether you're a programmer, a CAD designer, a graphic artist, etc... typing is common but is not the bottleneck.

I wish my books would jump from the shelf into my hands as yours gracefully do. Great channel btw!

Anybody know the name of the mobile keyboard he demonstrated at the end?

@Matoyak

9 жыл бұрын

It says in the video, doesn't it? At 3:23 . MessagEase seems to be its name..

@messagease2094

9 жыл бұрын

Yes! We are on Google Play with a rating of 4.4 over 5 stars! Look us up. MessagEase is also an app on iOS, and will be a replacement keyboard for iOS 8.

@googaagoogaa12345678

9 жыл бұрын

MessagEase i love your app mainly cause i have sausage fingers so it being bigger helps a lot also i like the game

idk, i think many starcraft 2 players with 600 apm will just drop dead if they have to do 5% more with the dvorak keyboard.

There would also be huge resistance from those already trained on the qwerty board. A good typist would have to start over again and unlearn what they know. You would need for it to be significantly better, significantly faster to make the retraining cost effective.

@osvaldomorinigo

Жыл бұрын

It's not that hard. I'm proficient in both, although slightly faster on Dvorak, and it is much more confortable

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

Dr. Dvorak and his team of Engineers, PhD Psychologists, and 2 brain Surgeons - took over 10 years to develop the Dvorak. It takes 1 month of "gruelling", but after 1 year, your typing speed _will_ double. 100% of test subjects (and it worked for me) doubled their typing speed in 1 year. Tell me how "cost effective" that would be. 🙂

I’m missing new videos from this channel. One of the best science:engineering channel on KZread…

As an engineer once explained to me. "Any new idea can't be 'as good' as the one it is replacing. He has to surpass it or the previous, the familiar, will remain in place."

@santa_claus-north_pole

Жыл бұрын

Before you "ha ha", realize: *Fact* (the military commissioned the Dvorak, and their tests are accurate): Dvorak doubles (200%, not "as good") your typing speed in 1 year. Fact: It is a cure for Carpal-tunnel syndrome. (this is a *huge* worth - not "as good") 3) It is a "secure" solution - if you want someone staying off of your computer, they will. I use Dvorak, and nobody wants to use mine. Mission accomplished! Also, people spend tens of thousands on a car - is that new car waaaaaay better? (no - in some cases, computers fail more, and there are flaws not realized yet).

@IrishCarney

Жыл бұрын

It's not just that. The improvement has to be immediately, visibly greater than the short-term opportunity cost of the switch. If it takes time and trouble to switch, that's a huge barrier to market acceptance. People are lazy and habit-bound. They don't like making an effort, even when it saves them more effort in the long run. Combine that with the lock-in self-reinforcing mechanisms of path dependence and network effects.

I'm typing on one now! They are way better.

@engineerguy What keyboard app type did you use to type 'Bill'? Thank you. 😊

@engineerguyvideo

5 жыл бұрын

I don’t remember.... but I am pretty sure the name is on the screen when I do it.

@nyceyes

5 жыл бұрын

@@engineerguyvideo Thank you, and thank you for these great video lessons. It took eight years for me to find them, but they are superb. It takes a lot of planning and work to produce each of these, and this is not lost on me (and us). 🌻😊

You remind me of Saul's brother from Better Call Saul

@edancoll3250

8 жыл бұрын

Ben Peterson He does!! Excellent catch, sir. (Chuck McGill, portrayed by Michael McKean, by the way)

@selimvergili7001

3 жыл бұрын

exactly! thats what i thought when i first saw him in the video about cans

Dvorak was a failure? Why? I loved his 9th! Oh, wait.......

Why did you stop this series. It is so interesting. i would love to see more tech fails

very interesting! thanks for the great perspective.

The biggest thing I would want to change on the keyboard is having QAZ, WSX, EDC, etc aligned vertically. There is a very exotic split keyboard like this called the Kinesis Advantage Pro and it is extremely ergonomic and fast. It takes minimal amounts of time to get used to it because it still uses the QWERTY layout. We haven't had a need to stagger the keys to accommodate mechanical levers for a long time and it's time we lined up the keys.

@FragsJr

9 жыл бұрын

Well done. You've just pissed off every PC gamer ever.

@alveolate

9 жыл бұрын

Fragdog Shiba wtf? how would lining up the keys piss off gamers?? in fact, lining up vertically would make WASD more logical (they would be aligned at right angles, much like the arrow keys).

@FragsJr

9 жыл бұрын

._. I'm an idiot. Disregard what I said.

@GeorgeOu

9 жыл бұрын

Gregory Samuel Teo I am an ESDF guy. Not only is identical to the typing position and offers the notch on the F key to let me know where my fingers are without looking, it opens up a lot more keys for my pinky finger.

@colindupee

9 жыл бұрын

***** Ultimately, I just got tired of completely remapping my keys for every single game, and just learned to use the default (once that changed from the arrow keys to WASD), though I acknowledge that both ESDF and vertical alignment would be superior.

Great job. I had previously believed the entire "urban myth" of the Dvorak Keyboard. So interesting to see the actual reasons for its failure and learn that is only 5% more efficient than the QWERTY keyboard.

@MarinusMakesStuff

8 жыл бұрын

+TVGuy601 However when taken into consideration, if you type a 100 minutes, it means you will probably start to notice a difference. The amount of keystrokes is huge, especially in modern times and in modern times I can imagine the advantage being bigger than a 5% efficiency increase.

@MarinusMakesStuff

8 жыл бұрын

cbernier3 In the end everyone thinks differently. I've always written my theses with such great speed and I've always heard they were a pleasure to read. Especially for teachers that know me a little. It appears that I write in the same way I speak and it apparently is very pleasing to hear. Just imagine that it's different for everyone, because I think faster than I type and I still type very fast.

@nandoflorestan

5 жыл бұрын

Dvorak is a breeze to use compared to QWERTY. This video was inaccurate. People judge these things without the necessary impartiality... They are all rooting for an outcome, right? This is a complex issue and the answer is complex: Dvorak is much better in every aspect.

Do you mind putting up the link for these studies in the description box in the future ?

well you have to consider the diferences in languages i find that in my language if i use dvorak more often i se that i write one leter with one hand and second with other i dont know it that is bad or not. For the reasons that is true if some thing is first its hard to change starting from driving to metric system.

I use programmer's Dvorak, I stretch my fingers less so it wins in my book.

Dvorak, Qwerty, I don't care where the letters are I just want a keyboard with the letters shifted slightly wider apart and the shift, enter, backspace, and tab keys put in the middle there. My pinkies are aching from doing all the work of those keys all the damn time. I'd rather use index fingers on those.

@iLiokardo

5 жыл бұрын

How about the thumbs? (Kinesis Advantage, ErgoDox)

@horsemumbler1

3 жыл бұрын

@@iLiokardo Penguins don't have thumbs...