As for giving my personal take, yeah. I think GW has just been rewriting the game over and over for the sake of profit instead of actually improving it. Especially because as soon as a new edition comes over (9th to 10th) all the previous rulebooks become useless. 0:50 when you mention how Warhammer always has hamfisted "bad endings", it made me think of the ending of Space Marine. Captain Titus fights a bunch of orks, then fights chaos. And instead of being regarded as a war hero after all the work he's done, he gets arrested by the inquisition for "suspicion" of chaos corruption. 2:00 about Cadia, it's not just because the Imperium has millions of worlds. But also because worlds getting blown up or taken by Chaos or aliens has happened before and it will keep happening. But everyone just gives a shit about Cadia because there was a book about it and because Games Workshop wants to. Not to mention that even the Inquisition calls exterminatus on their own planet when they feel like it. 4:40 I also dislike the thing about Chaos existing just to hate on the Imperium. I feel like they don't interact enough with other factions and Chaos vs Imperium conflicts are over-represented. Besides that, I feel like a majority of lore, even when it's done on xenos, gets written from the Imperium's point of view or with the Imperium in mind, instead of letting things exist on their own and interact with the rest of the galaxy. 5:37 Ork's motivations are often simplified to wanting to fight and being comedic relief. But at least Orks are the one faction that portray 40K as being silly and remind everyone that Warhammer isn't meant to be taken seriously. 5:47 Personally, I like Tyranids for their aesthetic. But I also resent how every piece of lore about them is also written from the Imperium's point of view or someone else and the Hive Mind as a character never gets fleshed out.

@ianbyrne465

2 ай бұрын

I really agree that the whole “all the stories are in-universe made by the imperium” doesn’t make any damn sense, because why then would there be books about and featuring chaos cultists or necrons, etc. The Imperium of Man would never let that shit last

@TheBananamonger

2 ай бұрын

I don’t really want the hive mind to be fleshed out. I like that it’s an unknowable animal presence. It’s simply beyond the ken of mortals, a beast that lives in the realm of Gods.

@koichidignitythief7429

26 күн бұрын

Cadia mattered because it was the watch tower against the Eye of Terror

The Tau were the only reason I started getting into 40k lore to begin with, and it was incredibly disappointing to find out that GW has apparently spent the last decade or two having them written by people that hate their fundamental premise. It makes the setting MORE DARK to have a perspective not accustomed to it. The Tau let throwaway lines like "this cyborg is 10,000 years old or smth" actually have impact, because we can have a Tau go up to one and experience existential horror realizing it's older than his entire civilization and only cares about trying to murder him. The Tau's job is to go out there, do the right thing, and STILL LOSE because 40k isn't a setting that allows them to win, and is a setting that lets them do it over and over again. There's narrative impact in that that I just don't find in the 100% grimdark factions, and every element of the setting is improved by having that around. It's very engaging to have the Tau just... going around interacting with stuff. With different Imperium factions, with Ork hordes, with the concept of the warp, with the ADMECH. It tells us new things about all those elements because the Tau were something new. But no, we can't have nice things or cool battlesuits. We have to make the Tau just another evil faction because everyone threw a tantrum about the setting developing any depth whatsoever. Well JOKES ON YOU games workshop, my headcanon is IMPERVIOUS to your shitty management

@juliancalero8012

2 ай бұрын

The Tau is that new player in a Stelaris game that has gone on for *way* too long but is too invested to leave willingly. The question isn't if they'll become jaded due to realising the crazy murder zealot empire that's older than their very race by many magnitudes isn't the worse, it's when

@lostbutfreesoul

2 ай бұрын

What saddens me is: The Tau could fill a vital role for any GrimDark Setting - The naïve Goodguy. There has to be someone who keeps trying to do good.... But in a world where everyone else is either too small or evil.

Only halfway through but your point about scale is correct. It’s why I always think of 40K not as one big narrative but more as an awesome sandbox for storytelling, since that fixes the stakes problem. It’s impossible for me to care about a guard planet, there are endless guard. But I VERY MUCH CARE about ibram gaunt and the tanith 1st. There’s only one of each of those guys, and I like those guys, and when they die I get very sad.

I was completely fine with T'au just straight up being the good guys because the horrific, grumdunk part of that is the fact that they will just, never matter at all. It's like if the entire world was on fire but like, Wyoming is still doing ok. I also think it fits the unsubtle nature of the setting to make them UNDENIABLY good. Seeing the T'au suffer nightmarish casualties which are so much more impactful on their smaller scale actually made me feel something instead of just 😂😂😂 le one zillion years of war 😦😝🤣 (which I don't mind btw, its just a cool way to expand the setting which i argue doesnt break the themes!)

Also, another point of contention, Necrons *use* to be minecraft skeletons with no personality, now that's just your baseline troops, Now the Necron leaders all have personalities. Essentially you're using old pre-5th edition lore for the Necrons, when they got a massive overhaul...which makes sense if you're basing your lore from the Dawn of War games. In fact Necrons have THE most well regarded book in 40k, The Infinite and the Divine, which is essentially about elderly grandpa Statler and Waldorf bickering with each other whilst having adventures and includes one of my favorite bits of "You fool, you bought us box seats to a coup!" "Well the reviews were good..."

@user-sg7pb8eo1d

Ай бұрын

Newcrons are objectively worse.

@thomasgordon7344

27 күн бұрын

Hmmm yes I liked when GW killed Fantasy removed the Tomb Kings as a faction a well known fan favorite then not long after they did that we started getting the Egyptian styled Necrons again.... A little suspicious huh?

Warhammer 40k is a fascinating setting to analyze, because it's such a unique blend of cool ideas and absolute garbage. I think it's most epitomized by tracing its history: 40k started as a satirical sci-fi setting from a small-time British gaming company, and has since then grown into a corporate behemoth meant to appeal to the masses so as to increase profit margins. It leads to such iconic moments as when GW had to tell people that the Space Marines are fascists and bad, despite virtually all of their marketing material depicting them as angelic heroes and super cool. It's especially frustrating because, honestly, there's a lot to love about 40k. Sure, its massive scale means it's hard to have real stakes, but it's not impossible-you just have to focus on the smaller scale, like making us care about a single sector, or planet, or city, or person (a piece of advice every writer should learn). It also has some incredible aesthetic that you can't find elsewhere, and while I think total Grimdark is stupid, the general vibe of Grimdark can certainly allow for some pretty metal moments. What really gets me is that 40k is a setting that teeters on the edge of brilliance, but which you know will never truly make it there. The Eldar are a fascinating faction about the withering remains of an eons dead empire, but their books aren't as profitable so they never do anything. The Tyranids are an existential threat that could truly doom the galaxy, but that would threaten the setting so they can't really endanger it. The Tau are an idealistic society that can enhance the setting by both highlighting how horrible the Imperium is in comparison and showcasing how idealism is doomed in the 41st Millenium, but that doesn't make as many sales so they need to be evil now. There are so many settings that manage to grasp 40k's scale and tone successfully (BattleTech being my favorite example, plus Halo a little bit), but 40k is stuck in a perpetual state of decay: Built up into a massive hobby empire that holds itself afloat by coasting off of old success and innovation, failing to progress itself in any meaningful way. Kind of fitting, really, compared to the Imperium they created.

god forbid a girl refuses to die for a rotting corpse and the biggest war machine in the known universe

I’m gonna disagree with your take on the Imperium. They are fun to root for because we know they used to be “better” (I’ll fight anybody who says Emps’ plan for humanity was a good one), we see that they could be better, so we root for the rare individuals with admirable traits like Gaunt, Cain, or Captain Fething Titus earning a moment of peace even though we know it’s meaningless. Now the Space Marines? Yeah, they’re dumb. But the guard is where it’s at if you want to root for the imperium. The 10,000 year-old super soldier getting turned to paste by an 18 year-old with a krak grenade will never not be funny.

I really like Genestealer Cult for narrative. While the end of their story is likely being eaten or killed, that's sort of everyone in the setting. And I like that the sinister mind control aspect is put alongside the actual regular people who join the faction because they just want things to be better for their planet. A little little fun rebellion. Edit: they are definitely re-creating the game. Usually fixing some stuff and usually hyper nerfing the old strategies.

their grimdark is the fact that they're one lone lighthouse of hope in a massive sea of darkness

This is probably why the Leagues of Votann just fascinates me and are my overall favorite faction despite their lack of lore. The kin are just people who avoid other faction's bullshit and want to improve and develop their society by mining resources and adding valuable information to their collective knowledge. They don't gun down anyone capable of reason at first sight and are even open to trade with them. Hell, I lile them more than the Imperium for simply being nice to robots and treating them as equals.

@khaaneph7311

2 ай бұрын

As much as this makes the kin pretty 'good' as far as 40k factions go, they still have a pretty grimdark aspect to them. They are incredibly callous to non-Kin. The exact moment leaving their ally to die becomes more beneficial to them then fighting with them, they will cut their losses and leave. Hell, if its better to wipe out their civilization and steal their resources, they'll straight up do it on the spot. Treaties, alliances and friendly history be damned. The imperium, tau, eldar and even necrons will occasionally show honour in their dealings with other factions. Keeping to deals and honoring agreements. The kin will do no such thing. If the calculations determine that its a loss for the leagues, your friendship is worthless. its not even out of sneering haltered or sadistic intent. Its just cruel calculous.

@UltraVioletKnight

2 ай бұрын

Depends on if you prefer space fascism or space neoconservatism

@DogseatDogs

2 ай бұрын

You should read up the Kill Team lore on Votann and Beastmen. It is Grimdark done right. Votann can be harsh and Grimdark. Also the Guard and Navy do not shoot people for suggesting smarter actions most of the times. Commissars who love doing that get fragged early.

In my opinion, I think the appeal of some factions and why people like Warhammer, is because it's so over the top and edgy that it circles back to being charming and cool. The Devs behind Helldivers are Warhammer fans through and through (to the point that they said that they would raise the praise for the monetization if they needed money to buy new units, which simultaneously funny and scary) . Besides of the Starship Troopers inspiration, you can see some of the over the top elements of Warhammer in Helldivers with the space ship sending their troops inside big bullets, and I would be stretching too much to say that the other to factions, besides the bugs, were also inspired by 40k. And some people enjoyed Super earth, despite basically being an Fascist Dictatorship, thanks to how over the top it is, to the point that you can help but love it.

Yeah definitely disagree with the whole "orks don't make interesting characters" I highly suggest Da Big Dakka and Brutal Kunnin', basically any Ork novel written by Mike Brooks who is someone who 'gets' how to write interesting and fun Ork characters.

The T'au was my second favourite faction in 40K, just behind Orks (especially from Blood Axes). They tried to be different that others because in the lore they are still new faction in-universe, giving a breath of fresh air on the so-called Grimdark.

In theory, I fucking LOVE the idea of a grim-dark universe where humanity is completely a write-off and the only good guys are alien collectivists in big anime mech suits. That's rad! If I ever got into WH40K, I'd absolutely main Tau, no question.

I actually find the idea of the Tau mind control pheromones as kind of a neat concept, as pheromones in real life are less of a mind control and more of a potent neurochemical suggestion to do whatever they're telling you. It fits the Tau into 40k without detracting from their core ideals, and could have lead to some interesting story themes such as exploring the dichotomy between freedom and ethics, or asking what it actually means to choose to do the right thing. However, this kind of storytelling is nuanced, and we can't have that in our space game now can we?

TBH everything good that you said about T`au especially about their xwarriors actually having a real motivation to fight also applies to Eldar.

@OrmylLP

Ай бұрын

Their ALMOST equally shafted too, Eldar just get to hang out for nostalgia and funny elf jokes it seems

I feel like saying the imperium has nazi flags is a bit much because lots of nations throughout history have used eagles and birds in iconography

I kinda find the whole take interesting but i find it...i dunno...reductive, and it misses the real core theme of 40k. It isnt that 'everyone is evil harharhar.' Its that the universe itself is cruel. the theme is stagnation and decay. The imperium has many worlds within its borders that are actually quite nice. No slavery or forced labour. Many political and economic freedoms. Good standards of living. The issue is that due to both scale and the issues faced from within and without, a better model cant be universally put in place. The imperium needs its ungodly amounts of grimy hive world industry to fuel its armies with men and munitions. Overlooking its cruelty out of necessity. The horrors of the mechanicus are ignored due to their critical technological and mechanical expertise. Political machinations and technological regression have hampered any kind of major reform. The imperium cant reform itself because it would disrupt the very system it needs to keep itself alive. It has a million worlds and is fighting *everywhere*. Religious dogma has corrupted its soul. The cruel acts of aliens during old night, when humanity was at its knees, has filled their hearts with hatred and scorn. There are so many good people in the setting just trying to get by without being stepped on by the sheer weight of the brutal machine that is the imperium of man. Many space marines are noble dutiful souls that defend civilians and have the best interests of humanity in their heart. But so too are there marines taught to be heartless shitbags, unpunished due to their nature as 'demigods' to the undereducated populace and uncaring administrators worried about not losing one of their precious supersoldiers...or suffering their wrath. the eldar for their part take a very active role in their survival, frequently using their scrying to identify threats to be avoided or dealt with. They are clinging desperately to survival. Orks are funny and i wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment that they dont make for interesting characters. Read any ork book. It'll change your mind. The tau...the tau are not made to be continually retconned to be more evil. No. they are written to be ever more wary and disdainful over the course of their expansion into the stars. the tau are best described as naïve optimists. With every disappointing contact with the cruelty of the 40k universe they become more and more callous. The tale of the tau is less a story of grimdark depression displayed in the imperium. It a tragedy. Its about good people becoming bad because every time they tried to do the nice thing, they are frequently punished for it.

@mamamiazakaria7481

2 ай бұрын

completely agree with this

@Smiley-rp1ju

2 ай бұрын

well said!

@DogseatDogs

2 ай бұрын

Elysia is one good foil to the Tau.

@drchaoswaffle3624

2 ай бұрын

For every night Lord theres a salamander, and I hate that people associate Warhammer with facism when I don't feel that's what the intention is

Infinite and the Divine(Necrons) is one of the best Warhammer books it’s story is two old men having a grudge against each other for thousands of years. Reading the Night Lords The Omnibus(Chaos Marines) a story of a hated group of edge lords trying not to die and it has been great so far. I hear that Brutal Kunnin(orks) is also fun.

Tau armor is just amazingly satifying even in heroic scale. All that cool round metal 😮😮😮

it would be funny if the Tau actually were trying to do good, but the rest of the galaxy just said 'no'

I'm split, because while I like that there was a non-grim faction in 40k, I also like them becoming a lesson that even a naively-good ethic like "for the greater good" is more complicated then it first appears, that feels authentic to me. Collectivism isn't synonymous with good any more than individualism is. The Imperium is itself also quite collectivist (10,000 psykers a day), yet this always flies over people's heads because people don't realize fascism is as hyper-collectivist as communism, just with different aesthetic and in-group preferences.

The tau are my personal favorite faction in Warhammer- their designs are sick and their main philosophy being based around compassion is a genuine breath of fresh air!!

you can actually mix imperial guard units with tyranids though genestealers

Why the hell would you play a grimdark game if ya hate the grimdark.

For the last couple of years, I've been getting back into 40K and, if I had money, I'd buy myself some Imperial Guard and Orks, run the latter as Blood Axes, cause it's fun. The twist was that if I win the game, I'd give my opponent the chance to play a second, shorter game by taking one “half” of my army (we'd a flip coin). The guy in charge of my local store told me that that sounded cool and in-lore

I know this will sound like an advertisement but based on everything youve said about the sort of writing you focus on and such, I would highly recommend you play Roadwarden, seems to fit a lot of the criteria you look for in stories, also just a real good text based game

I enjoy Warhammer because a) some of the factions look cool and b) a lot of the lore is really funny. The entire Horus heresy can be summarised as "demi gods make a pact with space Satan because of daddy issues." And this is my reason why I don't really care about the T'au. They are just not funny enough. They are too functional, too diplomatic, too sensible in scale and technology. But I do agree that riptides and crises suits look pretty cool.

@Turnil321

2 ай бұрын

So I take it you like the greenskins then? They are not functional, not diplomatic, not sensible in scale or technology and are funny.

Honestly I feel like SCP is the best example of grim dark being an actually good part of its existence cuz everything that good happens in the universe feels like a flash in darkness a slight glimp of Hope. And memory of these people in the world are trying to make things better. That's why I love SCP so much it feels like a world of senseless Hope.

GW 🤝 Bethesda Serving up the same basic story… forever

@DogseatDogs

2 ай бұрын

You should look up Kill Team because they are doing Chaos vs Xenos and Xenos vs Xenos over there.

Really good video! Idk if you have checked it out before, but the rules for warhammer netea feel really good, and are relatively easy to learn.

The Vermintide erasure at the begining of the video cant be tolerated.

The T’au racism has definitely been turned down at least in recent books where the enemy in Shadowsun was Surestrike, the racist fourth sphere expansion commander.

Yeah i can see your point, i like xenos especially Eldar and T'au, eldar in early days i just like t'au, goody people that want and willing to help out people but getting shot in the face because the other people doesn't want to, then getting retcon to hell and everyone think eldar just goth and emo elves T'au have good model, and look like gundam so that's a bonus point for me, people said they're still far backward in technology but they can down a titan if they need to cause railgun and everything they have, also using reasonable tactics, unlike one particular faction that will charge you using chainblade and yelling "for the emperor"

7:10 Yo!, cool to see my models getting used in tts! I'm the author of the dawnhail mod. I'm adding rampagers next. Tau I still feel can be pretty 'good'. I feel their tone is more rational over purely being okay, their main point being they arnt idiots rather than saints. Like, tau having mind control auxilia, who then only serve as advisors rather than actually controlling people, who then also never betray the empire because why would they? Its an amazing point of lore because the fear of xenos is totally irrational along with another dozen or so dogma pieces the imperium practices. Its cool in the setting to have a factions super power be common sense, over psychic powers or super weapons, and with that power of rational I can have six crisis pick up angron in a single shooting phase for daring to get in my los. Also ethereal mind control got retconned back out of existence in the 9e codex, so theres no confirmed source of ethereal control and it stays a mystery, which tbh I prefer it as.

@cassius_scrungoman

2 ай бұрын

thanks for your tabletop mod! big fan, obviously. :>

@TheBananamonger

Ай бұрын

@@cassius_scrungomando you want significant, non-arbitrary differences between races in a setting or not, make up your mind

Wahhhggg? No? Daz sadz… diz iz why iz likz da orkss.

Deadly Kunnin is a novel that made me really fall in love with the orks.

I feel that you're missing the point of the setting by saying there's nobody to root for because they have no motivations. The reason why the Warhammer factions are like this is because all of them are so impossibly ancient and past their prime that they've extinguished every other option except for mindless self-perpetuation. The Eldar are over 60 million years old and their empire had collapsed, they now live only to survive another day, even the Dark Eldar seek only to stave off their souls being slowly consumed. Likewise, the Necrons are so impossibly old, lifeless and scarred by war that it's basically all they've known for millions of years. The Orks have also been around for so long they've managed to devolve from their old intelligent Krork counterparts, their story is one of a weapon without a target. The Tyranids are a hivemind that is intent on consuming everything, that's kinda all you can get from an unknowable hivemind no matter what story you're writing. The Imperium is so bloated, inefficient and dying, that it has forgotten its old purpose, it no longer protects humanity, it uses humanity to fuel itself. Even the recently re-introduced Leagues of Votann are struggling, trying to keep their lifesaving Ancestor Cores online if only to continue their survival. The point of Warhammer 40K's story is to showcase all of these bloated, horrid groups stopping at nothing to keep themselves going past reason or humanity. The exception to that rule are the Tau. They are by FAR the youngest of all these factions, they are still full of life, they are efficient, idealistic and kind. This youth is what makes them unique in the setting, should they be allowed to fester past their rightful end, they will become no better than anyone in this cursed galaxy. And this is not a bug in Warhammer's writing, it's a feature. All of these empires are meant to be unlikable, evil and stagnant, to present that as a negative is, in my opinion, missing the point of the setting as a whole. Overall, this whole video came off to me as very spiteful and dismissive of the setting, and that's disappointing to me. There was potential for good analysis here but the entire video just came down to expressing a dislike for every faction except for the Tau. You've definitely had better ones before. (Also, Leagues of Votann didn't get mentioned in the xenos section again, sad day for the Space Dwarves)

I supppose its a matter of how you view 40k. Personally i genuinely think the lore is the least important bit. Far behind the minis and game. Best treated as a place with a lot of warbuilding to do your own thing in. And bring in the occasional mamed charachter who there are too many off. So things like charachters. Motivations. Etc. Just cease being very important. Which is the best way to.enjoy 40k imo

I see somebody missed the 1st of april mark by 19 days

what's the game in the background? apart from DOW

Can you make a video exploring Warframe after getting to helldivers?

I think the definitely-not-dwarf (Leagues of Votahn) kinda fill the "I can root for them" spot.

@izauraschmidt2756

2 ай бұрын

Except for the fact that they strip-mine inhabited worlds for resources lmao😂

@teecee1827

2 ай бұрын

@@izauraschmidt2756 that's quite tame in comparison to others.

@wingnoot338

20 күн бұрын

​​@@teecee1827There's also the straight up slaughtering of potential allies if it's easier for them to deal with. The sub-faction being at each others throats in the name of profit. Cloning rather than having families because their A.I gods deem it "unnecessary" to progress. Also the robot kin being chaos-corrupted at the drop of a hat against Vashtorr and his minions. The Votann are quickly catching up to the rest of the galaxy in terms of "yeesh, that's grim" potential.

While tau are my favourite faction, Necrons I think have the most character (thought still not enough) with books like the infinite and the Devine making showing how lovably self defeating they are. Also previous editions allowed for allying in 7th it was basically completely free form

In my lore crafting cast for what if I was idfa man the tau go through really dark stuff , and start eating people after getting decimated by the mechanicus from finding dark age of technology tech.

FIGHTIN IS ONLY HALF OF WHAT WE DO, WE ALSO WIN

Cool take 😂. Mine for the Tau is this: I see in the Tau for the same reason I like Armageddon Steel Legion and Elysian Drop Troops. Unfortunately GW keeps focusing on the Battlesuits.

idc man, any society with a cast system can't be 100% good, the Tau always had that in their lore, the five cast system was always a thing. Also, I'm not alone has a fan of the 40K setting in believing that it's not ment to be taken seriusly, the imperium is not meant to be look has an heroic faction, eldar believe so much on thier own importance than hare willing to let thousands of other sentient being die so a couple of them would live without thinking for a second on the moral ramification of this choice... AND read the infinite and the divine and tell me again, while looking me in the eyes the necrons don't have character!

sorry to busy attacking the local denim factory (we werent mentioned in yet another 40k summary). Genestealer cults are BASED and have the POTENTIAL for some COOL ASF stories AROUND them and *even* about them. most SLEPT on faction.

Man I don't want to be "that guy" ... But I see some sings and slight arrows pointing at "god forbid you like to play as a bad guy in the Universe of bad guys with some questional morals"

I too enjoy Tau, but not because I hate grimdark. I just like advanced technology and ranged warfare.

Personally i'm fine with things if it makes sense, i'm fine with the way the inquisition is because you can learn the steps it took for them to become a thing, same for the imperium, you can learn the steps which caused it to become the way it is, but most importantly the imperium DIDN'T WANT to become this. I'm fine with grimdarking up the Tau a bit, because it would make sense that the bright-eyed new guys would get a bit darker and less naive in a universe that can and will shit all over them. Personally Tau are my favorite faction for basically the same reason as you, Grimdark gets really tiring after a while. Chaos is my most hated faction, basically just because of GW, GW seems to want chaos to be like a cthulhu mythos level entity and the strongest thing in the setting, to paraphrase someone I don't remember "They want to chaos to be something that you barely survive if you even walk away from the encounter." This view of chaos was solidified when GW rewrote the lore so that chaos had always existed and even battle during the war in heaven, which I feel makes the setting worse overall as before the war is heaven was the biggest tragedy in the setting because everything bad was spawned from that, but now since chaos had always existed at worse the war in heaven just made the situation worse and nothing more, they even did this in fantasy by having chaos take down the most heavily fortified fortress in the setting, off screen, to win the setting, and GW disregarded the results of a tabletop narrative battle when chaos was losing. Chaos reeks of the same feeling I have when I see batman, I just get the feeling they are the label's favorite character and you can tell.

7:51 so true

To be fair even the retconned more sinister T'au empire doesn't feel particularly more evil than any modern neoliberal state in the real world.

Bro has the Xcom sweater

I liked video

Man, it sure is refreshing to see some well though out opposition! Your points really bring in a different perspective that I (Long time fan of the franchise) have never though of and actually agree on many fronts! Even if I believe many of your gripes come from the general view of a faction that has been poisoned by the public perception and not the actually interesting fragments that make the whole, the many exceptions (And actually good media representation) are often the more likable aspects of the setting that tend to be overlooked. My favorite moments of the setting have always been the smaller ones, about the characters, about minor events that in the grand scale are so meaningless but hold such singular depth to it's characters that it's just completely endearing. I hope you don't get bummed out by the totally expected backlash, because it genuinely is such a good video, cheers luv

I like the Orks cause they don’t care if it’s grim dark they are having the time of their lives

I like Tau. The old Broadside is superior to the current model. I’m hoping to kitbash one someday. I don’t play the tabletop, but I collect and like to create what I like or there isn’t a model for anymore/yet.

I started playing sisters, because I liked the gothic style, and they were the ones who went the hardest with it (my second pick will be Grey Knights, as soon as they update the models). But I had the exact same issues with the narrative. So I just said screw it, and make my little faction occupy a corner of the galaxy, where they have to rely on their own. No more unlimited resources coming from other parts of the galaxy. This means every loss counts, which means they need to be careful not to waste human lives, which means they are open to diplomacy, new ideas, use tactics that involve less meat grinders, and actively try and make their society a better place, because happier lives means less people turning to chaos. They are still grimdark though. Grimdark in a sense that they feel the pain much harder when they lose, and their enemies are still the same as everyone else's. I also put them right next to the T'au, because it's an interesting rivalry between their faction and the Greater Good spreading blueberries.

Honestly, in my opinion, the great part of 40K is that whilst on the surface all factions seem terrible, they do actually all have the capability for good, bar the 'nids. Nids are hungry. The most altruistic they get is eating something that was going to kill you. But every faction has wiggle room to not be complete asshats. The imperium has occasionally had truces with the Necrons, they've worked with the Eldar and vice-versa, and fringe planets often engage in open commerce with the T'au. The Greenskins can occasionally be told that "hey, that guy over there said your big mek sucks, go knock his teeth out" and it sometimes works. And even Chaos as a force, whilst often a boring reactionary anti-imperial edge-fest, can also be practiced as a religion that doesn't kill everyone and ruin everything. It frequently does, but it doesn't have to, because Chaos isn't inherently evil, it's evil because the psychic gestalt of the masses is full of negative emotion. Ultimately, GW is allergic to improving the state of the 40K Universe, but I would actually like to see some stories about the better parts of factions actually making a difference in the universe.

Im a tau fan as i find their auxiliar forces to be interested and a nice way to spice up the army, love my kroots and vespids, not too big of a fan of the mechs but they are alright for what they do I dont think people who play imperium are fascist, or people who play tyrranids want to eat people I think most people can take two steps back and see the universe for what it is and enjoy the history and depth nature of it So i dont really need a "good guy" in a setting to be fascinated by it

It finally happened, I don't agree with you on something. Space Marines do look awesome and I'm sorry you have bad taste. Dreadnoughts look badass, Terminators are fantastic. Gravis plate looks baller, my beloved beetle boys, jump packs are snazzy. Good video regardless though

How can you say that orks do not make interesting characters? Have you ever read or listen to a ork novel? Just look up a ork audio book on youtube.

They really are just rewriting the rules every time. As much as I loved Stellaris, I loved it because of the narrative in my brain rather than what was being played out.

Thinking Tau are not grimdark.... lol.

You're entitled to your wrong opinion. The Tau are great though. Basically no ability to interact with the galaxy via the warp so they're intrinsically tied to technology. Hopelessly naiive as a race and often get into hilarious situations like thinking they defeated the imperium of man or trying to welcome necrons onto their planets.

I mean, if we expect subtlety from every work of media we'd likely just end up with works that just pretend to be what they're not. Warhammer's entire gimmick is being over-the-top and miserable. Nothing in this franchise is meant to be subtle. It's not even meant to have *that* much in the way of high-concept artsiness. All you need to do is look at how many joke names there are and it becomes pretty obvious.

@CT--ox2iu

2 ай бұрын

This, read my first warhammer novel (Steel Tread) and really enjoyed it, standalone story about a guard tanker crew. Perhaps the battle they fought in is pointless but the story was well told and thats all that matters to me

@cassius_scrungoman

2 ай бұрын

i didn't say I want it to be more subtle, just less hamfisted. the cramming of edginess into everything is the exhausting part, not the over the top nature.

@starcraft2own

2 ай бұрын

Having subtlety isn't the same as not saying anything about anything. You can have a story with a very clear main theme but have subtle underthemes. This is something Warhammer doesn't have in the slightest. Subtlety is the act of telling two stories in one. And saying the gimmick is bad storytelling doesn't quite resonate with me. Warhammer has the level of hamfisted nature where i'm honestly surprised the characters don't scream out their attacks, it would fit right into the setting.

@cassius_scrungoman

2 ай бұрын

@@thekrampuselbananoquevivee9947 what the fuck is this horseshit take im allowed to call writing shitty i like Warhammer a lot and enjoy media from it I don't give a rats ass about the people who came into the hobby before me don't be a gatekeeping elitist

@KerncBurns

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@cassius_scrungomanit’s not hamfisted. It logic extrapolation of their society. They’re Confucian space communists with all the flaws that come with that. It feels like you just don’t like what makes 40k special. That’s fine, but fined a franchise that fits your wants instead of complaining about what makes 40k special

Te hace falta ver más bax

EXCUSE YOU! The orks are a really good faction. They're funny and the reason they "fight for no reason" because It is basically food for an ork. No fighting means dead ork.

the reason why I love Warhammer fantasy so much more. endtimes is utter nonsense and Age of sigmar tried to 40k-ify it.

Hey I like Kreig and not a naytsee uvu I like the style and the history

@deadgunslinger8489

Ай бұрын

And krieg are in truth, a mixture of all kinds of ww1 soldiers. Their costume are inspired by french troopers if im not mistaken.

@TheBananamonger

Ай бұрын

God forbid this guy actually know what he’s talking about

Knew it

Like a few people here. I got into 40k because of tau. And just over the years they've become worse and more imperium of man like and i just cant stand to see it. They dont need to be all goody goody but they can be better than they are

I agree, dawn of war broadside model is simply superior to everything else

Cadia stand

Orks

Sameeeee !!!!

bro you're just a weeb calm down That's why you like the Tau it doesn't even sound like you like 40K

Orks are in actual heaven in 40k. Also warhammer fantasy is superior.

I can concur on the mixing armies. The last time I gave the game a chance there was this alliance matrix and I loved it. Ended up with a whole story about a Water-Caste member falling in with Noise Marines. Starting because she was obsessed over having the greatest of voices....

This is the single most exhausting sort of interpretation of the 40k setting that gets tossed around, that 40k is pure grimdark with nothing good in it, as if somehow the only thing that could possibly encapsulate the idea of "good" is everyone living happily ever after with a quality of life comparable to our own, espousing values that are exactly like our own, as if somehow the conditions of real life and 40k are even remotely comparable simply because humans exist. On top of that, I disagreed with practically everything you had to say in this video, to the point where just the idea of presenting my thoughts on them becomes exhausting, and I'm thoroughly convinced that you made this video based off a combination of a basic exposure to 40k memes and a recounting of the lore given to you by someone whose only knowledge on the setting is from being friends with someone who constantly talks about 40k while they pretend to listen. You seem very pleasant though so I'm leaving this comment, get that algorithm boost.

@KerncBurns

2 ай бұрын

He seems to have pretty major miss understanding about most of the factions. While I like new people getting into the hobby, this stuff is a bit exhausting

Grimdark is exhausting... Well maybe the setting with the tagline "In the Grimdark future of the 41st Millennium there is only war" isn't for you. Or at least you could ask the community to point you to less grim media from the grimdark futre? Like; Brutal Kunnin, The Infinite and the Divine, Bloodlines, Double Eagle, Blackstone fortress, gorkamorka or tts. Probably a better approach than dipping your toe in then making a 10 minute video about why you don't like the setting. Although b***hing about how GW F Bombed your faction's lore does make you an official member of the 40k fandom. P.S. Also people hated Tau because they didn't like being tabled turn 1 if they didn't go first, not because they were the good guys.

@henryheavy8044

2 ай бұрын

Have you tried Battletech? You know, a much better written setting and affordable game system than GW’s usual Grimderp shenanigans that you edgy lots that’ll just buy every damn plastic crack with increasing price tags from Gw ?

@Chonkulease

2 ай бұрын

@@henryheavy8044 Battle-tech post wiz kids is pretty sic.

tau empire are Asians representative in warhammer lol literally some will hate them and some will love them no in between.... try hard? thats asian right there

This is a pretty shallow analysis ngl. A big part of Warhammer is that while as a whole it is a horrific setting, if you look closer at some of the factions they have their good bits too. I know you were covering the other factions briefly, but said analysis was so brief and so shallow that you boiled all of the other factions down to basically being objective bad guys with no redeeming qualities or boring. There's lots of shades of grey. Heroes do exist, and they try to do good things when and where they can. For example, you boiled the imperium down to "Fascists who only want to kill people and if you disagree with me you're a nazi" when they're a bit more complex than that. There are stories about good people trying to keep their humanity or protect the innocent in the terrible machine that is the imperium and the brutal universe around it. Half of the intrigue of the setting for me is that yes, while everything is comically bleak, there are still sparks of hope, warmth, and humanity. People trying to make a difference in spite of a vast and terrifying universe. Same goes for your summary of the other factions. The eldar was an especially poor summary. The formation of 'sex cthulu' fucked them up so badly it almost made them completely extinct and that 'sex cthulu' causes so much pain and devastation that I think it's appropriate that they'd feel kind of remorseful about that. Their whole thing is desperately fighting for survival, they aren't "sitting around" in any sense of the word. They persist in defiance of their fall, keep themselves alive, and to do, sometimes bake poor or selfish decisions. And I just wanted to bring up Cadia. It was basically their third or fourth most well-protected planet in their entire empire and their most important fortress world. Its destruction was still felt despite the imperium's size, and the imperium threw everything they could at it to try and keep it from exploding. Overall, this review is a shallow analysis at best and is missing a lot of information about the setting as a whole.

Hey cassius very nice video! but id like to inform you that the imperium was only fascist when big E was alive, hes an asshole and its all his fault btw. After that its more like an medieval oligarchy ( and it still sucks btw ) Although id say that i enjoy the setting because despite all the darkness, edgeness and factions being evil. There are still heroes. There are still Space marines, soldiers and comissars who only want to protect humanity from the worst that the universe has to offer. And theres still a funny metal skeleton named Trazyn, that wants preserve history by stealing things and Kidnapping important people. (Not a hero but my favorite character because hes funny as fuck)

You should try Battletech,it’s in my opinion is a much more relatable setting and much more sensible writing than whatever Grimderp shenanigans from GW and Black Library

most of the complaints you wrote here are the entire reason why i started writing my entire own alternate universe for 40k? like, the entire situation for the t'au explicitly being "we wrote the federation from star trek but as xenos" and then having to repeatedly walk it back because of a combination of real life japanophobia/sinophobia, visceral negative reaction to the perceived inclusion of "gundam" (see japanophobia/sinophobia), and the fact that their presence turned the game from being about a bunch of awful people hurting each other (but they're all justified in being awful) to demonstrably being actually awful people who could stop being awful at any time but they won't because fascism. also oldmarines are ugly as all hell and anyone who complains about primaris marines is literally huffing so much aerosol

@user-sg7pb8eo1d

5 күн бұрын

GW bootlick spotted.

With 40K, I'd argue with its grimdarkness, the problems that emerge are: • Most factions are straight-up genocidal towards each other. This in practice means that most factions are essentially variations of an all-destroying horde (to be fair, the variations do matter). • Most factions are not only evil but evil in an absolutist sort of way. For example, you could have something like The Tau contrasted with something like Rapture from Bioshock and have an interesting conflict of ideologies; instead we mostly get variations of fascism. • It's a bit silly that virtually everyone in the setting becomes so over-the-top-evil. • There's a lack of people to be oppressed by the setting. Mind you, I do like the setting for the most part, but that's part of the issue with it.

The Tau were better when they were genuinely altruistic. They worked as a setting antithesis both thematically and aesthetically (40k is a fantasy setting with a sci fi veneer, so the Tau are the weird kids at lunch for actually being sci fi in aesthetics). As they currently stand, they’re just a less interesting Imperium (this is coming from an imperium dickrider who appreciates the sheer fucking dysfunction in a very “it’s a feature, not a bug” type way) who are too aesthetically dissonant from the rest of the setting. As for the scale making shit not matter, pro tip: zoom the camera in. The setting suffers when you zoom the camera out.

Does this secondary even paint miniatures? And you should know that one of the main reasons they were hated on release was due to their playstyle.

Strange way to take 12 minutes to say: I haven't read anything past the face value of the setting. Like i get it, 40k isn't for everyone. And that's okay. But most of the points made are turned on their head if you actually dig into the setting past the surface. Taking Cadia as one example. It mattered it got nuked cause it sat at the cornerstone of defense against the Eye of Terror and were the vast hosts of Chaos reside in teh physical space. Yeah they have fortress worlds everywhere. The imperium is vast. But Cadia was (next to Terra herself) THE fortress world. Without it the didn't just lose a world with a few static defenses. They lost that foothold that put the imperium on the back foot. Plus to the point of "everyone is miserable" in the setting. There are plenty of people who aren't, but can't really make a series about the struggle of humanity against itself and outside forces if we read about a lad whom is born, raised, lives and dies on an idyllic agri-world.

@cassius_scrungoman

11 күн бұрын

im not sure I made this clear enough in the video, but that whole section giving an overview of the factions is *intended to be surface level* to show what the immediate vibes every faction gives off are to someone who is unfamiliar. i didn't want to waste everyone's time going super into depth about everyone. i could have bloated the fuck out of this section to talk about every single exception, but that's not the point of it. these are the immediate vibes of every faction, they're all miserable barring orks. that being said, there barely is anything past surface level to begin with. 40k stories are extremely simplistic and that's fine, but they don't do anything interesting with the characters presented because there is such a focus on mandated misery. they can claim cadia was important all they want, but I have yet to see it's effects at all in any media I've experienced which again is due to the vastness of the setting. they just named another planet cadia so people could still play as cadians and moved on.

@ursoanonimo8398

11 күн бұрын

The Imperium of Man is a mismanaged shithole and I refuse to believe anyone in there is living a good life. What few people you think are living and dying a quiet life are more likely to get taxed to the point of poverty and starve to death or choke eating their corpse rations. Or get forcibly conscripted into the Imperial Guard and die on their first engagement.

Sounds to me like you’re not actually a fan of Warhammer if you hate the core aspect of the universe. It’s Grimdark for a reason, and changes to the lore can have massive repercussions across the setting. So the fans are naturally skeptical to changes of the status quo - look no further than the backlash against Cadia’s fall, the Great Rift, Papa Smurf and the Lion coming back and the Primaris Marines. The Tau in their original form were too much ‘the good guys’ when the setting is supposed to state that there are no ‘good guys’ - just various shades of grey. So they had to change them to give them their own grimdark spin - ie they are effectively Communist China. The only ‘good’ faction in 40k would have to be the Farsight Enclaves - but they are so small and insignificant that there is really nothing they can do to help the suffering across the galaxy and can only really help themselves.

Warhammer is star wars with the violence of Brazil!

I personally (at least partially) disagree that nothing matter in 40k. After all, it’s all relative to the scale of the story being told, for example, the war in heaven permanently reshaped the galaxy in a way no other event has. Or the fall of the eldar. Good video regardless and the tau are awesome but this was just something I wanted to share (hope I don’t come off as rude or anything)

@cassius_scrungoman

2 ай бұрын

most commenters are much ruder than this, thank u for sharing :>

@TheBananamonger

Ай бұрын

@@cassius_scrungomanwe just know the source material and don’t hand wave away the parts of the lore that don’t fit into the “I must always play objectively good guys so that everyone knows I’m a good guy” mentality

I just wanted to say I have just found your channel and started binge watching your stuff just to figure out that you have alternative pronouns and a pretty little flag in the background of your profile pic. I’m non-binary and see representation is really nice especially in the gaming/nerd atmosphere which can be….hostile at best. Thanks for all you are doing for the community!

@cassius_scrungoman

2 ай бұрын

thanks! stay safe

It's interesting to see this side of the Grim Dark argument, because, It's understandable to think Grimdark is dumb. I personally think Grimdark is annoying because it prevents personal action from meaning anything. If you wanna do Grimdark, the world, MUST, be at stake. Because, if it isn't, well, no one is gonna live in the area that's actively killing them, till will find a way to leave. But, what's also interesting, is to see how those who enjoy the Grimdark look, enjoy it because it means you get to do, basically whatever you want. 40k was a parody of Fantasy, and it just got super popular. And so, they have been trying to take it more seriously, and in some ways open more Grey Areas within the setting, while appealing to as many people as possible. I think that's 40k's greatest downfall. In getting so popular, it tried to become to serious, when, well, Take ONE look at the *Walking Church with Missile Pods being loaded by a man in a bacta tank* and you can see they taking the seriously and making it make sense would be practically impossible. Give a good faction that's still good, but make it so it fits within Grimdark; They brainwash their citizens so that way there is NO WAY they can break free. It's for the greater good. Everything, no matter the cost, is for the Greater Good. I think thats a good way to look at it. I think that Grimdark is cool, so long as it's not taken to be fully serious. So long as you understand the main premise that, everything sucks so everyone sucks and and life is garbage and we just have to live in it. So that's why they have Trans-Human super soldiers with 2 hearts and 3 lungs that are so far from being human, they cannot relate anymore. 40k is Great to me, but that's also because I enjoy it as it was made. It's a parody, that Giant Guns and big explosions and deamons and alien fungi. And, while there are plenty of parts of 40k that I do enjoy and take more seriously, as a whole, it's a pardoy, and that works perfectly

40k is not a progressive setting, it goes out of it's way to say the enlightenment view of whig history does not exist. The tragedy of the tau should be them becoming more and more jaded over time as they realise their hopeful ideology is less material than actual dark gods and daemons and that they aren't even the first to try and fail at making the universe better by a long shot. Also eldar mechs are better than tau's. Miss me with that real robot shit it's super robot hours.

I'm going to be completely honest, I think the issue here is not 40k. It's you. I don't mean that in a negative way though! I agree with a lot of your assessments about the setting as a whole, but you seem to look at things too broadly. Like, you keep talking about things like "why am I supposed to care about some imperium planet exploding when there's a million more" and the answer is: you're not! You're supposed to care about *that* imperium planet exploding. To put it another way, imagine if in, say, game of thrones, when Ned stark died we said "eh, why should I care that he died? Look, there's a few dozen other humans right here watching his execution, clearly nothing of value was lost." It's ludicrous, right? In wh40k, part of the job of anyone who writes a story in it is to set up a series of things for the reader to care about. People, things, a ship, something our minds can attach to. *then* they put them in danger. If I say "ooh there's a kitten being kicked! Isn't that so sad?" It won't have much impact, but if I spend 50 pages describing a few days in the life of this kitten *and then* have it get kicked, it hits harder! Anyway I think I had more to say about this but I forgot. I'll end by saying I just think that while wh40k has a *lot* of *glaring* problems, your biggest issue with the setting comes from looking at it from too far away essentially.