As a pastor that had been a Min. Of Music for 27yrs., I agree with all of this!!!

@coolramone

2 ай бұрын

I respect what you do sir. I’ve been playing guitar in church for ~27 years and I’ve graduated Bible college and been to seminary and preached a few times. My pastor has been giving me static as the sole leader of his house church music/worship which I have served almost a year for nothing(no $). I am praying and considering leaving. I work almost 7 days a week with not enough family time. I love the Lord, but don’t like the way the pastor talks to me sometimes, and in front of the congregation. I joyfully serve the Lord; He saved me. But Christians can say some unappreciative hurtful things.

I quit in June (with nothing else lined up), and it was one of the best decisions I ever made! Major faith move. So many doors have opened since then.

@coolramone

2 ай бұрын

I quit 14 years ago and it took me years to find another church praise band position. But I never gave up. If the church doesn’t want you, play with another band. Rock on!

@jayt-mac2074

Ай бұрын

Amen!

No matter how positive you try to frame your situation, if it's an abusive, controlling, ego driven, toxic environment, then it's time to wake up and get out of there before you become just as toxic as they are. No amount of money will keep me in an abusive situation, God has better things for all of us indeed!

having been a "church" musician for over 40 years,. I have never accepted a penny from the church. my position was not a job, it was a privilege.

Im playing for Christ and i have been very blessed by being a servant. Servant verses Job is two different things .I feel you and good advice!

@Sheba_316

5 ай бұрын

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

@MoneyComethToshelia

4 ай бұрын

Get paid and don't let yourself be used for your gift. Always be wise!

@BETHEONE77

4 ай бұрын

@@MoneyComethToshelia Oh no they take care of me. I was just making a statement. Between the a job and doing it for the Lord. If you look at it plainly as a job you will be disappointed but if you look at it a servatitude you are rewarded :)

Pray about it. Pray for your Pastor and fellow music ministers. Reach out to your Pastor and gently approach the subject, not in a demanding way or pointing fingers. Be genuine about it. You want only the best for everyone. Its really important to communicate with emotional maturity. What we do is noble and humble work, so approach your fellow ministers with dignity, respect, and gentle honesty.

People need to realize and accept that the church is a business.

@matthewgaines10

5 ай бұрын

If it’s a business to you, you’re there for the wrong reasons. Time to realigned your actions with your values.

@SmellLikeADream

5 ай бұрын

@@matthewgaines10anytime an organization receives money and has employees on payroll, it is a business.

@locksley11

4 ай бұрын

Exactly

@RobsterCWell

Ай бұрын

No he is right. Church is a business. The church inside you is a development. Two different types of churches.

Have I told you that your insight is one of the best things to happen to the live music world? Because it is, several times over!!

Thank you for sharing!!!!

Great advice thanks

WOW ! ! ! Brother every word you have said is so true. It gets so frustrating. Advise is sound and grounded. Thank you

Great Info.

I’m going through some stuff right now that you spoke about in your video. And I started to let it affect me. So what I’ve done is gotten back to basics which means practicing more and just jamming with KZread. I am looking for other opportunities I’m not gonna let it get me down, but I’m not gonna quit until I find another place to go, because for me, I just have to play. I actually have a gig today at another church and these brothers can play! They’re making me work harder which is very good and I’m loving every minute of it although it’s a one off thing for today but who knows.

Great great content Sir!!!!!

Hi Amazing content 🇿🇦 you are really helping us musicans out with your KZread channel.......... Keep up the good work💯

Terence you really are full of wisdom regarding church music world! I actually laid down my bass selling both bass guitars roughly 5 years ago after playing for churches over 40 years. My decision to hang it up was due to the ethical decisions and frustration and weariness playing with musicians that seemed to play with a hobby mentality instead of a serious professional (excellence) mentality. No discipline or commitment toward excellence....just okay attitude!

@SamiDaComposer

5 ай бұрын

Yesssssss as a drummer this is annoying I feel like I’m the only one going all out

Brother Terrance thanks for your advice

That’s why I left a church I really liked , because of one guy a musician

"For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice" James 3:16

Best thing I ever did was quit church job in 2015. I did my best up till the end. I got them through Easter and I left a huge starter pack for my replacement. I suspected the pastor was about to fire me anyway because of some mistakes HE made. He had told me to do some stuff and I said I don’t think that will work because XyZ but he said do it so against my better judgment I did and of course it was a disaster and he ripped me a new one for it. I reminded him that all that bad juju was at his behest and conveniently he had selective amnesia so I left. By 2016 he had started preaching Trump and OAN from the pulpit. I think I’m gonna record one of his sermons and file one of those tax forms to try and d get their tax exempt status revoked. I’ve been told it’s pretty blatant.

@frederickweeksjr.1189

6 ай бұрын

It IS BLATANT.

I feel like this video is an answer to prayers. I'm currently seeing the "That's good enough" mentality at church. Haven't found a church yet that will admit to that mentality but through their actions, many of them definitely demonstrate that very thing. I've been riding the fence about leaving and this video clarified the decision for me! Thank you and God Bless!

Great content about leading while leaving. I was drawn to the video because of the cover photo. That looks like the late Jack “J.C.” Carter at Mount Olive, here in Fort Worth.

Man please, the reason why so many church musicians leave one church playing gigs is that they view their dedication to the music as something of a money making talent, not a church obligation, plain and simple they are not converted in the ministry of God, plain , realistic, hard cold facts . Dedicated to the music , but dead to the church , why? An unconverted heart, moving from church to church like playing from night club to night club, gig to gig, just to be seen, um playing over here, over there, for this pastor, this bishop, man um just trying to follow the money. A master of the music, but not a master musician of the church of God. You need to joint the c❤hurch and bring your instrument with you instead of popping up over here over there and every where. That's one of the main reasons why the music in the churches today sounds just like the music in the juke joints, they are night club players, let's cut through the chase, and almost all the church musicians don't even dress like they are attending church worship services, street clothing, street mentality, street musical influences, and late and later , and THE LASTEST!! and we all know lateness is a sign of rebellion, not willing to be led or told what to do... and again, it's the pastor's fault for putting up with it.

Wow, I love your storytelling, great wisdom. I truly understand what you are saying. It's really God moving a person on out, trying to get them to the next level that He has for them. Yes, taking action but also for them paying for it, yes the church needs to invest more. Great video, Sir.

How about getting a job else where and dedicate the music simply to worship? I understand not everyone has mown lawns, pressure wash drive ways, work restaurant jobs for obvious reasons but the Bible does say men that don’t work don’t eat… may be I was blessed to find work before I ever went back to church to serve in the music ministry.

@frederickweeksjr.1189

6 ай бұрын

Great point

These are SPIRITUAL issues brother. Most musicians need to understand WHO they're playing for and churches MUST understand THEIR ROLE in creating an ENVIRONMENT for musicians to operate in as well as making it a place where the ATMOSPHERE of worship can thrive......just an observation.

I have spent over thirty years in music ministry leadership. These are good suggestions, but I think people in this position need to be carefully advised before they get to this point. As the children of God, we need to be led by the Spirit of God. We should be seeking God’s guidance before accepting a church job, and seeking His guidance before leaving one. This way, you 1) are where God wants you to be, and 2) are serving the purpose God has for you with a particular ministry team and community. I think we need to be careful not to depart when conflict arises, just to make things comfortable for ourselves. God could be working something in you and/or the church for His glory, and we could be depriving ourselves and our ministries/churches of that opportunity for growth and maturity. There are certainly reasons for leaving- God governs the change of times and seasons in our lives. Make sure 1) that you have first tried to reconcile with your brothers and sisters in that church, and that 2) God has confirmed that it is time to move on. When that happens, in His timing, He will cause all things to work out for good- for you, the church you are leaving, and the church you are transitioning to.

@Pshell

6 ай бұрын

Amen 🙏🏾 I’m in the same position right now and just continue to pray for God’s guidance.

In the video, I missed the part about prayer. I also didn't catch the part about - "come let us reason together." It's hard for me to see myself as an employee within the body of Christ because I am connected while serving. I may get a check, as my church affords and it is a blessing - I would also do it for free - not because I am wealthy, but because God has everything and He provides. I still play for free at different churches and events if they cant pay. Everyone knows my cost, but I also make it known that, if you can't afford it, or if I call you friend, I amy take less - or nothing. With that being said, NO ONE who pays me, owns me, or is allowed to abuse or disrespect me, they can't pay me enough for that.

@frederickweeksjr.1189

6 ай бұрын

Interesting point .

@jelliffcrystal

6 ай бұрын

If you always tell people you’ll work for free, they’ll take you up on it every time. It’s a super rare occasion when they don’t.

Also it is advisable to train someone that could replace you.

I attend a small church. I'm strictly volunteer. We have a paid MD and a baby grand and a minimal sound system. I play bass with all my own gear. Until now, I never even considered getting paid for it. Ah, the trials some people face.

@andremcclanahan4015

6 ай бұрын

You are doing it for God. You understand worship is not a gig

I stayed at my previous church for a long time. I’ve seen a lot of people come ago and the reasons why. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt but after you have seen enough you can pretty much predict the results of the attitudes of people and how changes in a place will turn out whether that’s good or bad. The Bible is correct in that you reap what you sow it’s just a matter of time before you reap what you sow. You can waste a lot of your time trying to think positive but a tree is know by its fruit. Everyone in the end has to decide their convictions and how much they are willing to stick it out so to speak. We just shouldn’t complain when we see the fruit. 😀

Hello my fellow musicians can I ask a question if we can give these preachers money for preaching y can't the musicians get paid isn't a man worthy of his own hire

Thank Yoy?? @7:40 Another helpful video.

I started in church so I went through every experience lol now I just focused on music.

Good subject! Are you writing a book? I need to write one.

Serving in a church should not be about money

@heyheyhey40

6 ай бұрын

For most musicians, it isn’t about the money. But im sure you likely haven’t spent years paying for lessons; hours practicing every week; or student loans to get a degree in music. Many church musicians are professionals; and even if they don’t have degrees, they have still dedicated thousands of hours to perfecting their skill. While most people are outside playing or watching Netflix, musicians are practicing! If the church wants skilled musicians, they need to pay them a fair salary for their labor. I’ll never understand why people think artist should perform and create for free while they themselves want to get paid on their jobs.

@ruthnumsolutions

5 ай бұрын

​@heyheyhey40 actually I have many qualifications one of which is sound engineering. Its one of the many technical fields i enjoy as with component level electronics. I believe God has given you the gift so I offer my gift back to Him freely and willingly and joyfully. No charge!I also offfer to repair any of the electronics that go bad in the church including my brothers and sisters in the church. God blesses me in many ways for my good deeds. So i firmly believe its a wrong concept to be expecting pay for serving God. We have jobs etc. that we can expect to earn a living from.

@bnice3708

5 ай бұрын

If you’ve never worked in a church then I don’t expect you to understand. Actually it’s better that you remain naïve.

@ruthnumsolutions

5 ай бұрын

​@bnice3708 currently serving at my church since 2016 for 99% of services Sundays, Wednesdays, band practice and any inbetween events service. My treasure is being saved in Heaven 👍🙏

@bnice3708

5 ай бұрын

@@ruthnumsolutions being saved has nothing to do with playing for church or getting paid for your work in church. But if you enjoy volunteering by all means, you should continue to do so. Whether it be the church or the library or the local elementary school. But some situation want quality professional musicians a those of that status cost. As they should. Especially if they are noted musicians or educated.

The church I grew up in the musicians were filled with the spirit of course in the 80's, ok.and and they didn't get paid just glad to be of service and I don't feel it's wrong to get paid the word of God says your gifts and talents shall make room for you we need to stay on our knees and move in silence listening to God's voice in our ears, amen and hallelujah and true, if it doesn't look like God and Jesus christ, then probably it's not just human flesh. Amen

Well first off i dont have a church job.Im a member of my church where i go to worship.When i was working i was a diesel mechanic that was my job.I am blessed to have a gift that gladly use.I am greatful for what the give me.I never put a price on my service to God.How can i put a price on Gods gift to me?I serve the Lord with gladdness and if they could not give me anything i would still be there if the needed me❤❤❤

I have played in the music ministry and did it for the Lord and my walk with Jesus. I would never consider being paid to play music for the Lord. And urging people to QUIT the music ministry is like something that Satan would encourage. If money is influencing you to play music in the church then you are following Judas The Traitor because he was interested in money. If you are talented and want to play music in church then you should, but do it for the Lord Jesus Christ and not for money. I am sure you will be blessed by your decision to be in the music ministry. May the Lord richly bless you, as you serve him.

I understand what you are saying but there are a lot factors that are in play. I am a church musician in an Apostolic Pentecostal church and if you are a praying man or lady... God will work it out. Not everyone is a quitter and actually quitting is the last thing you should even consider. Their is safety in the multitude of counselors⬅ Do this first!!! Acts 2:38

"There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 NKJV Dear Lord please deliver us from any way, any opportunity or path that looks good to us, but leads to death, in Jesus name amen!

I guess I'm missing something. Why would one go there TO make money in the first place? That would be the last place to go. Now, if you "just like to play", well that's different. Then it wouldn't matter (I guess). Far as getting along with others in the music department, roll out if there's no chemistry there. From what I've been hearing, I wouldn't do a gig like that anyway.

Yep. However, MONEY talks, the rest walks. Musicians have to earn an actual living, either there, or elsewhere. Do not volunteer to permanently serve for free, because that Church will literally use you until you drop dead.

one hundred percent facts. the mediocracy attitude or underpaid is the worst feeling to be in

Pray about it first

I see the comments in the posted. Every musician doesn’t play for money. But if you gonna pay him do right by that musician saved or not saved. That the church and the pastor decision when you hired him. I been playing at the same church for over 20 years and I still get paid the same pay since day one. But a lot folks doesn’t understand is dealing with church folks when it comes to the choirs and singers is way worse then dealing with an average Joe on the street. Plus a decent keyboard or organ cost around 5k without even buying an amp. A full time church musician play at least 3 times a week, plus funeral, wedding, following the pastor around. Pastor get salary but you don’t want to pay musicians. But get mad if they choose to go somewhere else to get paid more. It not about the Money but you want to be appreciated for what time you take out dealing with church.

I think one of the major issues is that pastors or leaders fail to understand that the church is, in a big way, a business.

Working at a church is not a job. It is a calling . If you see as such , then you are in the wrong position in the first place ,

Imagine feeling like that, and doing it and not even getting paid. I don’t get paid, I volunteer.

I don't know, this seemed more like I'm quitting my club job than playing at a church. I get both sides of it though. Churches have to be willing to invest in music departments in some way. My pastor always says " People will put money into things they value!" So I'm on the "MUSICIANS SHOULD BE COMPENSATED!!!" Bandwagon, but I also will look at a church and clearly understand what they can "afford". But I would think that you are praying over situations like this.

Follow God as a musician

Got furloughed from my church job 2020 because of Covid got asked to come back but the pay rate was still the same I had been there for 6 years

@natemickens88

6 ай бұрын

Did you return with a raise or did just keep it moving.

When helping in ministry,it’s call serving. A musician is a help to a ministry . You are not the Pastor or the ministry. Stay focus real musician, you have a soul

Actually the statement goes, perfect is the enemy of the good. Nice way to modify it for your purposes.

Im playing and not getting paid where as my partner is getting paid.. we really doing great though we make the church go wild.. how would u advice mto approachsuch a situ...?😢

? You recommending people quit their job before finding another job?

I've never offered "transitional assistance" leaving. That's not my job! If you're leaving in the first place there's either bad blood or your needs aren't being met so why extend any grace. If everything was good I would still be there!

I Stayed To Long Reason My Dad Was Pastor

I've been there! Stayed about two years longer than I should have, with very low pay. We had five drummers, and four of them did a mass exodus, with myself, the MD and his then 12 y/o adopted son (lone drummer) left. The MD, after 35 years, ended up leaving, himself, after being reneged, by the pastor, over promised authority to discipline chronically late absent choir members for rehearsal. (choir member shows up, late, or is absent. MD disciplines member. Member runs to the pastor.....pastor overrules the MD! MD says.....TIME FOR ME AND SON TO GO!). Myself: I ask to have the church amp fixed. Request ignored. Things ended up where, instead of the amp getting fixed, I ended up getting yelled at, by the pastor (Although, I'll admit, situation of getting yelled at was partly my fault!). Regardless, that was a signal for me, time to go!

I think if you are doing music as a business at a church That is not meeting your needs. You don't owe them any hang time. Especially if you are a musical talent. Just get the hell out of there

RELIGION is a BUSINESS & SPIRITUALLY is a RELATIONSHIP with the most high (God).

A good enough approach by any party is not of God. It can create an unhealthy environment within ourselves or around us.

My my. In my church my leadership preaches the whole Word of God. And the congregation as a whole expects people in specific roles to live a Christian life. So we can easily have good musicians though many roles in my church are unpaid. We could pay people but we would rather have people living a Christian life. I’m the sound guy right now and I also do back up drums. But yeah all of the roles in the church are on a volunteer basis unless it’s contracted out.

Some people should not rely on the church to PAY them money for just playing instruments!! Go get a job!!! Plan for your future!!

@johnclay661

6 ай бұрын

A church without music is not the experience most people want to have! Music is essential to the worship experience in the church, period!

@coureyb1808

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, you are right! Hand clapping, foot stomping and tambourines is good enough too, but I know times have changed with a new generation! Playing for the church and getting paid is a side hustle for some people. Also, the majority of the church don't participate in the worship experience they just sit in their seat unbothered. @@johnclay661

The problem is when you hire people to play, guaranteed not all are born again and love the Lord. Folk don’t just love to serve the Lord in church anymore?!

Are you playing to honor and worship God or to get paid?

@golvic1436

6 ай бұрын

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

@rong648

6 ай бұрын

@@golvic1436 The term Church job, does it mean one's only source of income?

@frederickweeksjr.1189

6 ай бұрын

EXCELLENT POINT.

@GatorTex

6 ай бұрын

Exactly! @@golvic1436

As a former Church musician, I would suggest another reason to leave. You finally determined the you don't believe the church's theology or having to hear the preacher talk politics from the pulpit or tell you who you should or should not vote for or what rights women have under Christianity or how sinful it is to ask hard questions about some of the church's beliefs or crazy things in the Bible. I do miss the music, but I sure don't miss the words of many of the songs or hearing a preacher make up stuff to support his political beliefs.

I recommend to play for the lord not for a full time job , get a real job to save money and retire and you would be able to work as musician part time. .. get a real job please

Dah. Dont quit any job until you have another job. What the heck kind of advise are you giving. I understand what you are trying to say morally but financially, get another job first. 😮

If you cannot act like a believer in the work place I''d hate to see your family life. Whatever we do we should do it to the glory of God. I'm not 100% happy in my job too, but I'm not going to go around moping all day until I get fired.

@ColleenKitchen

6 ай бұрын

By “act like a believer” it sound like you mean be a doormat. You are casting our host as a whiner and I am not seeing that. I never once complained or moped and I bet Terence didn’t either. I kept it to myself until it became intolerable. You do the best you can until you just can’t anymore more. Then you vote with your feet.