I once joined a "HL2 mod team" that was looking for a level designer. After joining I was told to make an existing level more pretty. At that time I didn't fully realize the difference between the two roles but that experience changed it. I quickly left that team. The project released later on as a complete joke which didn't surprise me too much.

@Electrk

Жыл бұрын

hunt down the freeman?

@reality_is_sin

Жыл бұрын

@@Electrk probably

@genevievedisemelo5584

Жыл бұрын

you are the cause of that, god put you there to set them straight but you shirked your responsibility. i'm disappointed

@netherworld8196

Жыл бұрын

@@genevievedisemelo5584 I agree with you or before he left set fire to the studio to not release another abomination.😭😭😂. Me: turns around my room is on fire ah shit, here we go again.😂😂

@lodomir5519

5 ай бұрын

@@Electrk he is probably refering to the cinematic mod, which made base game levels more detailed

Imagine thinking level designers are employed for years to place a couple of tree and rock models

@EagleTopGaming

Жыл бұрын

Well that is what we are paid for. We just put a lot of thought into where we place those trees.

@josephjuanaliagavalenzuela2345

Жыл бұрын

@@EagleTopGaming 3 years of studing game design and level design to just know where to place that damn tree and rock... 'cause you know, they might change the affordance 🤣

@scorpiusjones5436

Жыл бұрын

One of these days you'll be employed for years i just know it buddy

@dylanmclean8395

Жыл бұрын

@@josephjuanaliagavalenzuela2345 you should study english more.

@FlockersDesign

11 ай бұрын

@@EagleTopGaming that is a Enviorment artist not level designer

I want to be a level designer. I was mislead by these vids. I couldn't feel comfortable to design a static scene because I knew something was wrong. I knew it wasn't level design and it obviously doesn't go by the name. So I started creating env art that can be walked around and no interactions. I've been doing this kind of work for almost 3 years until I bumped into your channel recently and saw your hl2 level design vids. Now I know I'm in the right path, I started to work on small 10-15 min levels that doesn't need to be graphically insane but fun and interesting to play. Thank you for enlightening me.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Lovely to hear my videos helped - thanks :)

@Atakan_Demir_A.K.D

Жыл бұрын

Small important addition use your mind put yourself in the position you are supposed to be generated in each case. without thinking and mind you notice it immediately. put yourself in different players and play your maps and have them played by different people from the pro gamer to the noob to someone who has no idea of the matter at all. learn from it because everyone brings a different level of awareness. you have to address both the beginner and the pro. don't even try to cover up but think about how to solve it concretely and intelligently. Work with mind and heart and be open to criticism and learn from the masters.

@coutiaraZZ

5 ай бұрын

@@Atakan_Demir_A.K.D you're right

Thank you for covering this, I work in the industry as a level designer, during uni I always found a lot of videos on 'speed level design' when looking for learning materials on YT and it drove me absolutely nuts

THANK YOU. Finally this has been said out loud lol. I got into game development seeing a lot of those speed environment art videos thinking that's what level designers do. The reality couldn't have been farther from it. Still I find myself crossing the line into env / concept art while blocking out sometimes, I guess some of it stayed with me haha

love to see this. from what ive seen on youtube, i feel like my level design is useless if i cant make it pretty. But its important to know that level art and level design are different things. Its not as popular, but videos on how to make a space fill good and complement gameplay is easily as important as how a space looks. although they seem to intertwine at times

So glad you made this video. Been rather annoyed with this confusion for a long time now. Nothing against anyone doing anything they like, but when you see people dressing a scene and calling it level design it feels just so so wrong. Even more so when they have a million people watching it and telling them how they would also like to be a level designer, lol.

Boom, this! There's a big difference in making a scene in Unreal Engine, versus say making a Quake map with layouts and gameplay (although with earlier engine games, you do work on the 'look' of an area too, well beyond greyboxing... but the point still stands. Understanding an enemy / weapon roster, map progression; hell, adding secrets....

@jlewwis1995

Жыл бұрын

Yeah considering this channel primarily seems to focus on HL2 mapping this is the type of video I would expect to see the least 😂 Since usually in these older games like HL1/2, quake, unreal, doom etc the environment artist and gameplay designer are more often than not the same person (that's basically what the term "mapper" means or at least how it's generally used). Obviously in a more modern professional context with larger teams those roles are usually going to be separate but when it comes to indie games I'd imagine the one person per map pattern is probably still pretty common

Thanks for the video. I love CG work and feel this. I can always get a landscape started but then feel how do maps get to things like we see finally made. SO much work.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

You're welcome 👍(and thanks for saying thanks)

Great point. I've only ever seen a hand full of overview videos about proper level design where they talk about coming up with the shapes and flow of the level than make assets around that. than have the level design come back and make sure the design side didn't break any flow design.

Explaining this to the people you work with in a retail position is the hardest topic to discuss honestly.

Great, I remember when I started my level design journey, I found those really impressive. But when I was applying for a LD job in the industry with a portfolio full of environment art I realized that I waste a lot of time on the look and not on making a real gameplay experience.

Great video! Short, to the point, and clears up a common misconception. 🔥

I work as a level designer in 100+ people production. We sustain mobile open-world MMORPG which map 's size is kinda equal to GTA SA map size. And the funny thing is that we only have 3 level-designers (including me). What is more, we dont even have level artist, so we somehow combine LA and LD both. Ofc we neither paint or create detailed models (we have 20+ 3d modelers and 3d artists for it), but we form the complex vision of incoming location, including atmosphere, references and detailed documentation for props, interiors and exteriors and so on. And do not forget about the main part of the job - designing roads, metrics, usability and location's functionality. And when all the props, buildings and objects are ready, we have to place it properly keeping in mind both functionality (LD) and the concept-vision (LA). Well, it means that "tree placing and rock-moving " is also part of my job). And i want to notice that such an approach has its own benefits (for me personally). I am free to "order" props and building that, in my and LD Lead opinion , are good - looking and suitable for specific place, and all my "orders" would be completed by 3d modelers in several weeks or months. It is like Unity asset store, but with your personal 3d artists team that is focused on your wills (if your wills and well organized, prototyped , detailly written and do not conflict with the concept of project).

Really enjoy the video. I do both level design and level art. Was nice hearing someone actually point out the difference to people.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Good to hear, cheers :)

Will be starting designing levels for my game. Thanks for the insights. 😊

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

I guess when I first got into watching these videos I already knew what they were about since I also practice level design, so it never really occured to me as level art I just kinds knew it was art but in the back of my head so I never criticised it. It's an interesting point to make actually, it really points out the difference.

@omw-ge3yz

10 ай бұрын

Most people know and understand this. It's common sense. Calling it "level design" is just a more digestible term for average people who just want to see a nice environment built aka level. Any person with a little bit of common sense knows there's more to a level than that

Thanks for pointing out the elephant in the room here, Steve! I've often seen those videos, and while they're enjoyable, it's frustrating to see someone dress up a viewpoint from a static camera, and label it "level design", when like you say, it's not a playable space, it's just making a pretty scene in a static camera frustum!

I was not mislead by those videos. They are just moving blocks and changing material properties here and there, but the depth goes way beyond. as 90% of the people are dreaming to make games, those videos as starters are misleading people in a giant scale. because what video games need is 'not a static map', its far more complex. Thank you for this video, now i can confirm i got the grip of the right thing from the start.

I was definitely one of those misled aspiring level designers that fell into the "level artist" trap. Although it has helped me develop an art skillset so when collaborating with other artists on a level, the collaboration feels much stronger as a result. And occasionally have worked on small indie teams where level designers need to wear both design hats and art hats. But the obvious down side being I could've been developing proper/correct design chops from the get-go. Wish I saw this video back when I was in school

thanks for clarifying!

Hello Steve! I'm really glad I found your videos. Thank you for sharing such valuable information.

@stevelee_gamedev

4 ай бұрын

Cheers / you're welcome :)

I'm glad you made this mate, as an industry vet myself, it winds me up in the same way it does you. I'm a bit of a troll going on these "speed level designers" telling them it's environment/ world building. They only use premade assets. Which is ok, but basically they're after views and that's all

I had the same problem with parkour. When i started trainings long time ago there were terms like "parkour", "freerun" and "acrobatics". "Parkour" was for efficient movement and some things, that help you feel your body mid-air. "Freerun" - was for event, where you run efficiently from point A to point B, saving your stamina, fastrunning and jumping and adding a little bit of style. And "Acrobatics" was for jumps like summersault or backflips and other "cool-looking" and nearly useless indeed tricks (it helps you control your body, sure, but you dont jump over the ledge faster with a backflip). So, some years later people started to misuse these terms. And freerun is being used as "acrobatics showoff", and "parkour" is like useless jumping around. Like everyone forgot about its purpose - limitless and efficient movement. Of course, its just popular meanings in media-space. But it changes the way people see parkour (instead they see acrobatics). (like level design - level art)

Hey! I actually just finished a series of actual Level Design; going through all the stages from prototyping all the way to release. I did it partly because of what you talk about here. Those who are actually interested in LD never get to see the iterative process that goes into it while watching these videos. I wanted to fill that void a little bit, showing a realistic development and timeframe of a level. There's a lot of new mappers that I talk to that are unaware of where to actually begin, and they've told me that the videos I released help ease that uncertainty. Great video and to the point!

I wish there were more readily available content out there for learning level design. I'm really good at the art side of things, but when it comes to laying out levels for actual gameplay, I really struggle.

@stevelee_gamedev

5 ай бұрын

My most recent video shows a whole creative / though process for coming up with a level layout for a Doom level, in case it's any help: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lop4sqVwdc-Xcc4.html

Thanks for your insight! Also, I can tell you are using Firefox when you were typing the words for search. What a man of culture you are. :P

@stevelee_gamedev

10 ай бұрын

Haha yep, I can’t let go of Firefox almost purely because of the keyboard shortcuts you can setup to open up bookmarked websites really quickly. Seems to be missing from Chrome which drives me mad. Glad you liked the video!

thanks for making this video. I was also frustrated at how level design was being confused with environment art or architecture.

I watch your videos everyday. Your philosophy has shaped me into a better designer and person just wanted to say thank you.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

That's lovely to hear, thanks :)

Thank you very much for the video, I am between the two, but more for environment design. Level design takes into consideration the user experience therefore, elements of the level have to be put in a way where the game's storytelling is driving the user on a specific path on the map also, it takes on consideration the technical aspects like the performance and optimization.

Hey Steve, great video and wish I knew it earlier! Meanwhile I did see some companies having requirements of 3D-modeling skills when hiring level designers for making grayboxing levels, and there are also videos teaching people making grayboxing levels in Maya/Blender. Just wondering is this kind of approach outdated, since you can do it directly in Unity/Unreal with premade components?

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

I don’t think it’s necessarily outdated, more that it’s usually specific to studios that don’t use engines like Unreal or Unity, and where modelling tools like Maya make more sense either because of their tools workflow, or the nature of levels being designed (or the way the roles in the team work). As far as I know, Sony studios like Naughty Dog are examples of really big studios where LDs use modelling tools, but as far as the industry as a whole is concerned, I think this practice is definitely in the minority. So I suppose it depends on where you wanna work!

You speak out of my heart...

I often find some measure of struggle trying to explain this without offending people when I ask for Level Design work/portfolios. How easily people confuse Level Designers with Environmental Artist work. But this is well said and a wonderful video to share, thank you Steve! :)

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Great to hear, cheers :)

Thanks for making this, maybe you should also make a video gamedesign ≠ gamedevelopment :)

Thanks for the clarification Steve

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

You're welcome, hope it helps!

They aren't "tutorials" they are showoffs.

These videos are more stage design than level design, stage design in the cinema is exactly the same way they teach in their videos, the difference between level design and stage design is that it also includes gameplay. And when there is no gameplay, it is just an empty scene, which is just an environment

My first job in the industry and my bosses with between 9 and 13 years in the industry EACH didn't know what a level designer was... They hired me as a junior level designer, then expected me to do environment art. So disheartening

I wouldn't even call this level art. Environment artists need to consider how things look from several perspectives and not just one. The argument that this isn't level design because there isn't any gameplay, mechanics and metrics taken into account when putting this scene together, also applies to the idea that this isn't level art. Level artists need to work with and around metrics, mechanics and strong gameplay setups rather than making a pretty scene. This in my opinion as a level designer, is just a pretty scene put together using pre-made meshes. Again, this isn't a comment on the quality of the work rather this is nothing "level", just a pretty scene.

I am level artist at Ubisoft, and these "speed level design" videos inspired me 5-6 years ago to learn Unreal and start doing the "environment art". So I don't disagree with you, LA and LD are way different, but they still great source for motivation and inspiration.

Exactly! Thank you for saying it.

Thats so true, as a level designer I searched for speed ld to see how others work and maybe see something new I can adapt. But... yeah 😅

These videos also don't care much about the optimization and such, so they're pretty bad as a learning source for environmental artists as well.

Never realized this was an issue. I use probuilder in Unity to block out levels, and I only use existing assets, if they have a function in the gameplay. The dress up and making the level look pretty I leave to the 3D artists. :)

Great video. This is all stated in such kinder terms than I've heard from other level designers - making it assigned watching for my students.

@stevelee_gamedev

5 ай бұрын

Haha, good to hear - I did my best to get the message across clearly but respectfully :)

hello , i have a question , is level artist same as 3d environment artists , im someone who started to get into 3d lately and making environments is fun for me , is placing all the existing meshes made by modeling artists together in a scene the job for env. artists or env. artists means more than just that ? ik its a long question but im very confused about it

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'd say they're basically the same thing :) In some studios there's a distinction between the artists who actually create the 3d assets, and the artists who use them to build levels with them. But broadly, both of these roles are often referred to as level or environment artists. Hope this helps?

@StevenJacob007

Жыл бұрын

@@stevelee_gamedev thank you so much and yes it was helpful , i have subbed good vids

Thank You!!!

Great video, subscribed

I personally really enjoy the process of making environments in game engines, but I also wouldn't be one to bill myself as a level designer, because there is so much more nuance to actually making levels playable and readable to a player.

And then often like you said not even level art since its only one perspective BUT thats a cool industry, people who do that are I'd assume often very useful to level designers and can focus more on details rather than interactability for either a mockup for a level design maybe or for use in, like, a static video or sold as a render etc. Idk.

@stevelee_gamedev

10 ай бұрын

Sure, it’s not that I don’t think there’s any use to what they’re doing - it’s just that it’s definitely not what level design is within the industry, which is what they’re labelling it as

Thank you bro. That what I need for hear

funny some of the videos i commented under ecactly this and man the back lash you get from people that are not level designers is insane im a level designer / Enviorment Artist / VFX Artist for over 11 years and i pull out scenes like the claim to be levels in 10 minutes but when it comes to real level design it takes months

@stevelee_gamedev

11 ай бұрын

Hehe yeah, if you post this kind of comment on their videos, I can imagine it's like kicking a bee's nest. I was wondering what the response would if I did a video about it, and thankfully it's been 99% good / understanding :)

THANK YOU!

They got me 2 years back, but pretty clear now, from an enviroment art perspective, some of it is damn impressive.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, definitely not criticising the quality of the work :)

Hello Steve, thank you very much for all the great level design tips and explanations you provide on your channel. In this video, you do a great job of explaining the difference between “level design” and “environment art design”, but I have one question. - What is the differnece between “level design” and “game design.” The way I see it, a game is mush like a book, wherein a book has multiple chapters, a game may have multiple levels, - So, is a game nothing more than a series of different “levels” combined in a way that flow one into each other to make up the game, or is “game design” different from “level design” in the same way that art environment design is different than level design? - I think this question would make for a great short video explanation. - I stil think that you should seriously consider creating a “Level Design 101” course hat you could sell on Udemy or some other platform like that. - I know different games have different types of level design, but there have to be basic rules that one follows for all level designs that you could teach in a course. - Think about it. I know I’d buy it.

@stevelee_gamedev

7 ай бұрын

Hi there - sorry for the slow reply to this. Basically, game design generally refers to things like designing game mechanics, gameplay systems, player character / weapon / enemy design, cameras etc - all the more general stuff about how the game works, that level designers can then use to make levels with. Hope this helps? Re: selling a level design course, I've definitely thought about it, and my conclusions are basically that it is very hard to do something that is truly universal to all level design, but even if I were to focus on one particular thing, the problem basically boils down to finding the time - especially now that I've recently started my first full-time job, after working part time for the last couple of years. I'd basically have to stop making videos, running my patreon, running my level design community and running our level design jams, to make any time for it for a sustained period. Life stuff is also busy right now etc, so it's hard! :)

@Calixj23

7 ай бұрын

@@stevelee_gamedevHello, Steve, thank you for the reply. Don't worry about how late it might be in getting it out. You do a tremendous favor to the community in general with your tips and advice. I don't take any of what you provide for granted. I consider the advice you give as a gift. So, I don't "look at a gift horse in the mouth" sort of speak. - That said, I know all too well about life getting in the way of what we enjoy doing. I have had my share of that having had full-time jobs that were 12 hour days and a family and a house to take care of not to mention the pets. So, time is very precious and not enough of to go around. Do what you can and keep yourself healthy. I do know that a tutorial would have been great, but is also very time consuming to produce. If you very have one, then I would certainly purchase it. - Stay well and do you best, that is all you can do. We'll certainly take whatever you can share with us and enjoy that tremendously.

Simplified explanation. Level Art is creating worlds that have the sole purpose of looking good in the end... Level design is designing levels that can actually be interacted with by the player considering every technical detail involved like LODs, floor clipping, AI routes, player actions that will alter the world to allow them access to other areas etc... Level Designers take what Level Artist create and make it actually work in-game.

An interactive environment is a static environment with movement added. All levels are static in the design viewport. But I am interested in hearing more about a technical artist and what they do.

Agreed, the "speed level design" videos always come more off as "fast paced set dressing/environment art" and def. environment art is a skill make no doubt about it, but please, please don't call it "level design" unless we are changing what the def. of level design means... My guess is by calling these speed videos "speed level design" that probably gets more clicks than "speed environment art, set dressing etc..."

Hello Steve, I watched your "short" clip regarding Unreal and Unity not being "level design" tools. I agree, but one problem I've found is that I cannot find a "level design" tool on the Internet. I tried to download Hammer, but wasn't successful. What IDE or tool do you recommend for "level design" work? - Thank you for your thoughts.

@stevelee_gamedev

5 ай бұрын

Assuming you like games like HL2 / Portal / Left 4 Dead / Counterstrike / Team Fortress 2, I recommend Source and Hammer. What problems did you have downloading / using Hammer?

@Calixj23

5 ай бұрын

Hello Steve, I figured out the problem. I was using the Mac versions of Steam. In the Mac versions you can't get to the Bin files, where Hammer lives, because Hammer is a Windows based application. Once I realized that, I was able to run Steam's Windows version and there was Hammer waiting for me. I've actually gotten a bit hooked on HL2... its a really good game with A LOT of cutting edge stuff for they time when it was developed. I'm still figuring out Hammer, which is also quite exciting to use. Thank you for all your guidance!

@stevelee_gamedev

5 ай бұрын

@@Calixj23 Ah, awesome to hear :)

This video is great I was not aware that level designers and level artists were separate roles and seems kinda obvious when you think about it

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Good to hear it was useful, cheers 👍

@tiredguy2753

Жыл бұрын

Heck even when you ask/look online both terms tend to get lumped together to be the same role. And I am sure at very small studios it may be the same person doing both roles but ideally they are different disciplines and each requires their own separate skill set.

Thank you!!!

Level design is about objectives, interactions, flow and spaces, blockout. Level art is about making those spaces beautifull, add light etc, and tell a story.

All over discord, Facebook and even reddit is just environment art being called level design. They only post images of finished work, with zero gameplay or zero block outs. This pisses me off a lot.

Someone finally needed to say it. Well said

I've noticed "level design" is so overused and misused. So many people will call their video "level design.." yet all they do is place objects into the world. That's such a tiny part of level design.

Thanks for talking about it. There needs to be a bit of education when it comes to video game development, especially if you are a consumer of them and demand something better. It reminds me a bit of when you see someone making a "remake" of a game (which is a nice setting with simple platforming) and most comments are like "Nintendo, hire this man".

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Hehe, yep

I really appreciate this video.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Cheers Daniel 👍

1000% agree. The vast majority of "speed level design" videos and what not are not actually designed to be playable or take any consideration at all for gameplay mechanics.

I definitely agree, most of the scene are non-interactive!

Anyway, been watcNice tutorialng your videos for a wNice tutorialle now and it really helps to understang soft soft more

They should change the names of these from Speed Level Designs to Speed Environment Art since these don't focus on the interactivity and flow of how a character progresses throughout the world but more on how good the world looks. I saw a multitude of these videos as a kid and started picking up on how way different traditional level design workflows are compared to these speed designs and they don't align with each other.

Thanks, it need to be said.

JUST FOUND THE VIDEO AND THANK YOU.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Haha, you're welcome

Alot of vids on YT are misleading like how to optimize frames by just showing how to cull grass where it has its part there is more to optimization than culling grass but every one wants to watch they guy who has 40,000k views and talk in circles than the guy who has 1,000 views and rules out the bs thats why more and more are quitting or questioning 2 years in why their art or design doesn’t look as good as the other guy who has done it for the same amount of time

Good, short and to the point video. Something that also needs to be mentioned regarding Environment Art roles is that environment artists often have to follow some concept art for overall feel, and they are often dressing up white/greyboxed layouts that have been put into place by people like Steve in a final pass when the general flow/feel of the level has been decided upon. As well as just placing dressing to replace the white/grey box on another layer, environment artists will also be expected to be good with materials/shaders and understand the general pipeline of level production and be able to work with tools like perforce or other versioning systems for iterating on their work. Again, great video Steve!

I never understood why it was called like that, it should be called speed level ART, or environment art

How much time do You take to finish this project?

@stevelee_gamedev

8 ай бұрын

Which project?

thanks!

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Yerwelcome

Level designers are the people that does the blockings (level from cubes/plan) that's why is called design. The artists are the people that does the art. All these speed level "designs" they call is just throwing marketplace stuff together to look pretty without even considering the player collision, scale, A.I path and the other requirements a game needs, same goes with all the marketplace assets. Nothing to do with level design or skills just visual eye.

Aye - they are "Speed Scene Design" - Not "Level Art" - these are not "Levels" but just scenes.

I find any 'speed video' kinda misleading, and more 'showing off' than 'showing things'. Anyway, I'm going through your videos to see what advice I can pick up, as I'm creating my level/track for my game. I do a lot of playtesting while I'm designing, to make sure I have an interesting and exciting track to go through. And if it's even possible to drive through. Although, I'm maybe tweaking too early on (gotta stop going into details to early on, I'm always making that mistake).

As a profesionnal level designer, your statement is very accurate about how "not" level design are those speed level design video are. I will also add some additional thoughts. In big openworld games, level design might be split in between mission design (or quest design) and world design. Mission design involves the design of all objectives the player has to do. So all scripted interactions with the environnement (doors, chests, switches, puzzles, etc), but also with the specific AI needs for the mission such as enemy or ally NPC placements and behaviors. Depending on the level of narrative involved, the mission designer might participate on the story script of his mission while integrating the dialogue scenes (managing the intro/outro of the dialogues notably!). On the other hand, a World designer will create the environnement landscape (cities, castles, spaceport, etc) following precise guidelines related to gameplay (how far the player can jump or navigate without issues, etc.) and a narrative & artistic direction (for instance, if the city is in ruined in the story, we probably expect a city layout with pile of rumbles & broken houses). The world designer will work in tandem with a level artist what will also follow artistic guidelines to "dress up" the layout built by the world designer. He will not put props to build a city from scratch on a empty world like with see on those speed level design video! Building engaging and interacting worlds (call it levels, locations, worlds, etc.) always involve the work of multiple people in multiple fields. Beside the mission & world designer or the level artist, there is the cinematic designer what will create the dialogue scenes (or cinematic) and the writer that will write the mission script or any texted feedback to the player such as objectives. There are also audio, FX designers. We also have the support of technical specialists in each of those fields (technical mission designer, technical level artist, etc.) that will provide us with tools and assistant for our work. Here a few displicines relaled to creating a level in the video game industry, but there are so much more (Dev testing, creative & game design, programming, manager/producer/closer, etc.).

This channel is great since it's 100% dedicated to level design, which is hard to find on youtube....but do you not plan to do anything 2D? I realise the basic concepts of level design apply to either but it would be nice to see it in a 2D game as well.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, the main reason I’ve not covered anything 2d yet is because i’ve not worked on anything strictly 2D. Would a tile-based tactics game count? I’m currently working on Tactical Breach Wizards (Tom Francis’ next game), and hope to make a video or two about level design for that :)

@loot6

Жыл бұрын

@@stevelee_gamedev Tactical Breach Wizards looks 3D to me? I'm not familiar with it but looking at the screenshots it looks like isometric 3D. For 2D I was thinking of a something like a top down Rogue Like or something since the level design concepts would be similar to the 3D fps games you've been doing.

"Environmental art" is not level design, that's very true and if I come across any, I remind them in the comments that it's idiotic to think what they're doing is level design.

Yeah, it bugs me when people say "sleeper hit." A "sleeper" is good movie that didn't do well at the box office. How can a movie be a sleeper AND a hit? I think they just mean "surprise hit," or actually they just mean "hit" but are unnecessarily decorating their speech. Of course, I would never make a yt video about this. By the by, if you want a job as a level designer, you should learn to slap together levels. Imagine you're up for a job, but the other guy can actually mock up the levels he designs, while you can't. Who would you hire?

Dam i made this mistake tying to get into level design school :/

On top of those videos not being about level design - more often than not they're also not about level/environment art. Downloading asset packs or scans from the marketplace is NOT making level or environment art, it's assembling someone else's art, and in that case those videos show neither level design nor environment art, they show nothing meaningful at all besides the video creator being able to use the move, rotate and scale gizmos.

Speed level designs are not true level desgins for games. Personally I love watching them because It gives me inspirations and good ideas to incorporate into my own maps. Speed level designs aren't optimized and wouldn't be practical in games, a lot of work goes into both level design and environment art far more than just knowing where to placs rocks and trees from asset packs made by other artists, when it comes to indie dev, environmental artists take on the role on level design, set dressing, 3D modelling, texture art, material shader setup, technical art optimisations. It is far more complex and much more difficult being a real environmental artist, nothing wrong with using other packs but just know when it is too much and at what point you are just asset flipping everything. Point is that speed level design videos are good to have, deapite them nit being practical, they are good to have around to get inspiration from.

@f4lleng0dz

8 ай бұрын

and speed "level design" is only for references, they often lack a lot of crucial feature and the gameplay aspect in term of exploration, so often that you will found out the map is nothing but just purely aesthetic asset skin and terrain, and it doesn't really speak out how level will change your decision.

Even level art doesn't work for me. A level implies that you could add gameplay. This is just cool CGI and tracking shots. If it's not up for me to look as from most angles it is not a "level". Obvious side scrolling or top down games excluded.

as someone who studied and 3d modelling for games and is working towards being an environment artist and seeing them building or "fix" that wall at 0:53 with props should of really been modelled with proper modular pieces or as a unique model, this just looks bad and gives another false impression

It really should be called Environment Art timelapse.

As someone who still casually designs UT99 maps in UED2.0, This fad always annoyed me.

Do you think level design always have to be done with blockout? What you think of level design done using assets, but the assets are doing the purpose of blockout? I often do blockout, but when the artists have done models before the LD, I like to use them more than making blocking out, I wonder if it's wrong. I guess the point is, it's slower to iterate, but while playtesting with people who are unfamiliar with games in general, they see pure blockouts differently than junky meshing.

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

Good question, and personally I think this is totally ok, so long as it helps you more than it hinders you. Using assets can help you sell an idea, the identity of the room, or gameplay functionality; they can help you keep an eye on scale and metrics (whereas it can be easy to accidentally make spaces too big with flat dev textures). The main reasons not to do it (or do it too much), is if it slows down your ability to change and improve things quickly, or if you go down the rabbithole of wasting time making things look nice, when it's not necessary / useful / your job. Otherwise, I say go for it (and often do it myself) 👍

@a420dro

6 ай бұрын

if you already know what you go for and you already have big portion of basic assets its of course quicker just to do clean work. As a detailist and perfectionist I tend to do clean work, to get a game feel right away, pretty walking location with correct footsteps also inspires me to work on interaction BP's, because it already feels like someone's lazy asset flip walking sim game, which is good start point. Of course if ure not sure where u want player to go, or how the interior plan will look it's better to block or draw the ideas first, tho if you already have modular assets of a house, corridor, it's stupid to use gray boxes because it's lot of wasted time and as a solo dev or tiny team u do not really have any spare time to waste.

Yeah feels more like more and more level design videos are tailored to videographers or people doing renders.

i got your point ma man, but designing is also art. when you compose some pre done props to make beautiful art it is also design. But yeah, you definitely need another level of knowledge if you want to make a good level design for playable games

One minute and 20 seconds into the video -> Hit subscribe. Great!

@stevelee_gamedev

Жыл бұрын

🔥 (Thanks!)

Subbed

loll ..any two bit nimrod can download unreal engine, open quixel bridge link and drag and drop and make a single "scene" look nice. a scene is not the same thing as a level. we've had a lot of wannabe environment artists applying to our studio with these artstation portfolios full of scenes that they grabbed out of their ass cause they've seen one too many of these speed level design videos on youtube. none of them know what's actually involved in making a complete playable level. they cannot work from ref, or concept art and certainly cannot take feedback. they consistently fail art tests. we now only hire seasoned environment artists that someone in the studio knows and has worked with before. usually when we hire it starts with a text message because we are friends and it's a small community. and don't even think about hiring these gnomon kids. you will end up just wasting your time. they are so unprepared it's kind of a shame really cause that school used to be top notch quality.

Exactly

I'll be completely honest, it drives me a little nuts watching someone drop in pre-made stuff someone else did. All the kitbashed stuff and whatever. It just irritates me. That's all I can really say about it. Especially when it comes to almost completely natural scenes that don't really have any identity of their own. At that point, you might as well be in any game's map editor. Which is fine. It'll still help your skills as an environment artist, because you'll have a whole team of your own working to create the objects present in a scene. But it won't help your 3D modeling, texturing and material crafting skills, which are still crucial to getting your foot in the door.