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@michaelmayhem350

11 ай бұрын

4:50 I love this comparison to roads because roads in the USA are terrible especially in small/medium sized towns. It's not working for roads it won't work for the electric grid either

@youxkio

11 ай бұрын

I guess the utility power supplier should keep their incentives and extend them as long as they can until at least 80% of the consumers become prosumers. How will they do this? One solution may reformulate the pondered formula of their expenses and trickle the prices in a way that also includes lower-income families.

@eliinthewolverinestate6729

11 ай бұрын

Some one needs to buy solar so research keeps happening and they keep getting cheaper. Just like small engines and becoming more fuel efficient with more power. We are barely meet energy needs with fossil fuels and renewable. So we need to make both technologies more efficient. Solar produces waste just like fossil fuels. A cooler planet never goes good for humans. A cooler drier planet means less plants grow. A cooler planet means more energies needed. A warmer planet means a wetter planet. The antarctic and arctic are biggest deserts on planet. As glaciers grow so do deserts. We live in an ice age. A cooler planet means depopulation. One degree cooler and black death breaks out. Tell me about climate models and I will show you how they have been wrong. Never predicted La Nina's or increased record breaking snow accumulations by magnitudes. A cooler planet means a drier planet. Like when they made famine stones.

@thesurvivalist.

11 ай бұрын

This is economic slavery! Your father was a farmer now you must be a farmer too! NO!

@thesurvivalist.

11 ай бұрын

@@michaelmayhem350 In some states they are charging you more when you register your electric and hybrid vehicles. Because we do not pay the gas tax. So it normally cost $130 each year to register your vehicle, but in those state you pay 1500 to 2500 to register your electric or hybrid vehicles.

I am always constantly amazed by how much corporations suddenly care about poor people when their bottom line is affected

@innercityprepper

11 ай бұрын

the same poor people that are constantly in danger of having the lights shut off.

@autohmae

11 ай бұрын

maybe because they feel the are going to be poorer too ;-)

@PiDsPagePrototypes

11 ай бұрын

That's because it's the poor that they make the most money from.

@sammadison1172

11 ай бұрын

It amazes me how racist our country is becoming with progressive ideology. Grouping 40% of the country in to "People of Color" like they're all the same is racism.. which becomes clear with the inevitable 'lets exclude asians' trick. No one's gonna come ring the equity bell some day and say 'all clear!, we're equal!!! What they're doing is embedding racist ideology in to our culture through corporate bureaucracy and policy to create a political platform for power and votes.. the problems exacerbate, get them more attention and votes to drive more racial tension and more power by stoking and embedding race in everything

@LolSho0orTs

11 ай бұрын

same can be said about politicians and dictators .

Shifting blame onto people that don't buy your product for not hitting profit targets is a temper tantrum in a suit. They want the benefits of being publicly subsidized while also extracting profit. Pure astroturfing.

@HonoredMule

11 ай бұрын

🛎

@danilooliveira6580

11 ай бұрын

"tantrum in a suit" is a beautiful phrase that I'm going to steal.

@gamelord12

11 ай бұрын

For real. I've seen enough investigative reporting to know that People For The Thing That Sounds Like A Good Cause is always funded by the industry that benefits from the opposite of that thing.

@awo1fman

11 ай бұрын

It's actually far worse than that. Rooftop solar is INCREASING power company profits because they are reselling power that they aren't even generating at a massive profit. They have ZERO overheads for customer-generated power: no fuel burned, no wages paid, no infrastructure maintenance, replacement or upkeep of any kind, nothing. But they love throwing out FUD smokescreens to keep customers fighting each other instead of paying attention to what the power company is REALLY doing.

@warrensteel9954

11 ай бұрын

​@@gamelord12 exactly!

🕴"Everybody needs to pay their fair share!" 🤷"Okay, let's start with taxes." 🕴"No, not like that."

@bellafemedia

10 ай бұрын

LOL

@timbrown9305

9 ай бұрын

YES LET'S TALK ABOUT TAXES--- WE ARE PAYING FOR HIS TAX CREDITS!!! My edit: Do the math-- why don't we pay all his electric bill, with the tax credits on the solar and cars it would be cheaper for the American people for ?HOW MANY YEARS? Terrible, disgusting and not even addressed!!

@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing

9 ай бұрын

We're dealing with this in Oregon about Water too. It's a hostage situation. There is an ever increasing minimum charge for 'stormwater' runoff, despite not a single cost having risen after they ALREADY did a huge, expensive outflow project we had to pay for years ago. Now, no matter how small your property, rain costs you at least $80 minimum, not $30 like 2014. The richies with the most land pay so, so much less per yard for rainwater outflow than the poors. And we're still not allowed to keep any of that rainwater we pay for except with a very difficult to get permit.

@jasonbenjamin1464

9 ай бұрын

@@JohnLA1980 eat the rich

@GoneZombie

9 ай бұрын

@@timbrown9305 when you say 'his' who are you referring to? When you say 'how many years,' what do you mean? Until what? What is it that is terrible disgusting and unaddressed? It seems a shame for you to be so passionate about... whatever your point is, when what you've written is so incoherent that I can't even tell what you're saying.

I’ve always said that corporations would be more for solar energy if they could figure out a way to charge people for using the sun. It looks like they finally have.

@rdizzy1

11 ай бұрын

They have been doing this forever, by allowing people to install the solar panels the company owns, then paying this company a monthly fee for electricity. You can usually get your power cheaper this way, because they usually allow you to lock in electricity cost per kwh for decades. (So while others using grid electricity continue to pay more and more as costs go up, you do not)

@epobirs

11 ай бұрын

They aren't charging for use of the sun. They're charging for use of the grid. The system in use for over a century was based on circumstances that have changed for an increasing portion of the household connected to the grid. It's going to take a good while to work out how this should work best for all parties involved.

@SeattlePioneer

11 ай бұрын

I've always said that home solar producers think they never get paid enough for the power they produce despite the fact that it often entices people to build out system much in excess of the power that can be used. Grid tied solar is a RACKET and those doing it are racketeers. If you don't want to be a solar racketeer, it's easy ---just cut the grid tie.

@nysunflower9439

11 ай бұрын

@@epobirs yeah. I get that.

@andrewwoodham5497

10 ай бұрын

@@nysunflower9439 in alabama they fine you monthly for every kw of panels you have hooked to the grid. then only pay 3.7cent per kw at buyback. i invested in a boat load of solar panels . im not grid tied

This is what our local utility tried to pull recently. They wanted anyone who installs solar to pay an extra $2,000 a year to the electric company which pretty much negates the savings of installing solar. That was the goal since the utility is privately managed, their income is percentage based, and they are of course a monopoly.

@Fabian3331234333

11 ай бұрын

So you guys went to court?

@KF75411

11 ай бұрын

​@@Fabian3331234333 It seems like our provincial government and utility board is not going to allow it.

@sihamhamda47

11 ай бұрын

​@@KF75411 is that only applies to on-grid/grid-tie solar or it applies to all kind of solar system (including a complete off grid system that does not connected to grid at all)?

@UndecidedMF

11 ай бұрын

Where was this? That's kind of crazy.

@jan_phd

11 ай бұрын

In my state, hydroelectric generation receives no subsidy or support. I asked why, and State Ecology said, we don't need the power, and the photovoltaic industry is paying the government to push solar panels. So each state has bribery and corruption, behind the scenes. Different industries, different sources of revenues.

Simple rule in life; if a corporation spends money to convince you to do something, chances are, you'll want to do the exact opposite.

@antimattv

11 ай бұрын

Greedy shareholders, toxic corporations. The answer is to change the mandate so that these giant legal entities serve the public and not a tiny handful of investors.

@5353Jumper

11 ай бұрын

The right wing media fueling the "culture war" is nearly 100% funded by the petroleum industry. Go ahead and look at the founding money and large donors for most "news" channels, podcasts, commentary shows, radio and social media which are projecting anti-LGBTQ+, anti-immigrant, anti-social support, anti-woke messaging. You will nearly always find petroleum executives, companies, PACs and advocacy groups at the center of their funding. They would rather we start a civil war about who gets to use which washroom than us getting together to discuss reducing pollution. The petroleum industry executives are causing social division, war and death just so they can maintain market demand.

@timfriday9106

11 ай бұрын

I don't know if you can say that with 100% certainty, but certainly if ANYONE is trying to convince you to do something that benefits them, you should pay more attention, since their incentives are at the very least split, if not fully about making money off of you.

@michaelblacktree

11 ай бұрын

As a general rule, if someone is trying to convince you of something, it's for their benefit, not yours.

@christopherg2347

11 ай бұрын

@@michaelblacktree So brushing your teeth is not for your benefit? Eating regular abs healthy is not for your benefit?

The news media should be reporting on this stuff. This could have been a piece on 60 Minutes. Well done, Matt!

@A2theJ9

11 ай бұрын

Power companies advertise on corporate media so that's not going to happen. That's the problem with corporate media. They're not about informing the public, but rather making a profit. They're being paid not to keep us informed on certain subjects and paid to criticize or fearmonger on others--like EVs from a certain company that doesn't advertise on their networks.

@thinktoomuchb4028

11 ай бұрын

@@A2theJ9 Though I wouldn't discount that entirely, I agree with Jon Stewart's view that media bias tends toward laziness and sensationalism. The more eyes they attract the more $ they make. That's not a good thing, but it may make them less beholden to any one corporate entity.

@carlbarberous

11 ай бұрын

@@thinktoomuchb4028 so they are beholden to all corporate entities

@thinktoomuchb4028

11 ай бұрын

@@carlbarberous Even the ones that compete against each other? How does that work?

@Cluuey

11 ай бұрын

@@A2theJ9 That's a reasonable summary of why I think capitalism is a failed experiment, but I'm a nobody so have no voice so only my friends have heard it! 😉

I've always been pretty skeptical on the topic of solar users upping the costs for everyone else. When consumers pay 17-36c/kWh and get offered only an 8c tariff on their solar being fed back to the grid it's obvious we are providing cheaper energy for our neighbors, unfortunately businesses love miss information and will try anything to increase their already obnoxious profit margins.

@mkedzier123

8 ай бұрын

You only get 8c tariff because solar produces energy in time frames when that energy is mostly not needed. If it produces energy at peak use hours, situation would be different - but those generally fall outside of peak solar production.

@lachlanB323

8 ай бұрын

​@@mkedzier123That's why batteries are so necessary. People think solar solar wind wind! When we need batteries to.

@mkedzier123

8 ай бұрын

@@lachlanB323 If there only was a good battery technology available. Li-Ion batteries are expensive and not really "green" while gravitational energy storage requires huge water reservoirs on different elevations and is only feasible in very few locations (plus it is pretty inefficient).

@lachlanB323

8 ай бұрын

@@mkedzier123 That is why we use LFP. Yes, uses lithium but lithium is abundant, same with iron. This is the future of storage because LFP isn't energy dense but is very cheap and energy density doesn't matter with battery storage. Although sodium batteries are showing promise for storage... they have horrible energy density but are very very cheap. But again energy density doesn't matter. It is just a matter of how much can they ramp production of sodium batteries. As for water... that aint an issue come on. What are you an an environmentalist now? By that I don't mean the good type I mean the people that protest against Tesla's giga berlin factory but were totally fine with coal that uses way more water.

@lachlanB323

8 ай бұрын

@@mkedzier123 4680 cells don't use much water since they use dry electrode coating as the name implies less water is used. In fact 4680 cells have zero waste water. NOT that water is an issue. It just adds cost. We have so much water. Ever seen an ocean? It is pretty cheap to remove salt from water.

If charges are going to be fixed to spread out responsibility to the widest possible population, then they might as well be publicly owned and funded by rises in taxes. If we can’t opt out of paying for a service, it should not be profit seeking.

@SmilingNinja

11 ай бұрын

Exactly! Publicly owned utility companies would be far less likely to complain about net metered solar houses as they're largely privately funded yet the grid receives clean energy that they're able to sell to another house or business.

@dannydaw59

11 ай бұрын

Not publicly owned but non profit like hospitals. Instead of dividends going to shareholders the profits could go back into infrastructure and cutting trees back from powerlines or going to the community.

@rabbit251

11 ай бұрын

The problem with this, although I generally agree with you, is that government is usually notoriously bad at running a business. (Exception, health care. Admin costs for government services is in the single digits while private insurance runs around 30%; actually it's just a way to boost their profits). All utilities are local. Every utility because they are a monopoly do have a government review board. Sadly, those boards are usually saddled with people chosen by the utilities. I saw an in-depth news about the South and how conservatives specifically spread misinformation as part of their campaign to fool uneducated voters. To go back to the point of government running the service to really make the system work well we would need an overview board like we have on health services. (Hospitals are regulated by the state and Federal government). If we had such regulation over the industry it would probably make the utilities more cost effective as a government service, or even as private services. But we already know a certain political party doesn't want this and it will never happen. So we're stuck with the system of private utilities poorly regulated by government. They basically regulate themselves.

@dianapennepacker6854

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. We all pay taxes for things we don't use but are good. Screw the power companies. Government should just take over then and regulations should be put into place. Most power for any given are is a monopoly on top of it all.

@CrossWindsPat

11 ай бұрын

"BuT thIs iS aMerICa!!! taKe YouR CommUniSM baCk To ChIna!!!" a large minority of the voting population... Capitalism's propaganda is too strong in this country....

"Keep the conversation honest" We CANNOT trust utility companies to be honest or care about their customers. They only care about profit, even at the expense of the customers and the environment. It is despicable the lies and misinformation companies and lobbyists spread to further corporate greed. These utilities make BILLIONS, but aren't satisfied and want more. Matt, keep them honest and keep spreading the word that we need to change our wasteful energy ways.

@NestorYamilGalvanAngeles

11 ай бұрын

Let's not be so emotional either. The money to pay union employees and to pay solar roof customer has to come from somewhere. I agree company's are looking out for their best interest and for shareholders, but we have seen big companies that at one point made millions also go bankrupt.

@Brurgh

11 ай бұрын

but that is capitalism. the endless drive to continiously increase profits. Its not sustainable and never will be. until that fundimentally changes companies squeezing every last penny out of the customer will exist.

@JaSon-wc4pn

11 ай бұрын

In the UK we pay £0.40 a day Standing charge for the infrastructure £0.14 a kwh if I buy it. What does the grid pay if I sell ? My guess is £0.02 a kwh. The phone also has a line rental, £20 a month 11:00

@michaelknight2897

11 ай бұрын

I disagree. I think the increased cost of energy is driven today by legislative actions that simply increase costs such as carbon taxes, reclassifying energy as renewable, green, or not.

@t0cableguy

11 ай бұрын

The stock marked causes this in every industry. Profit is the #1 priority over everything else. Once a company goes public a company has a legal obligaation to make its investors money.

We in Australia invested in 7.8kw of panels (20) and 16KWh of battery (Sungrow). In 12months we have paid our energy provider $50. We are so close to being independent of the grid. We have a pool and A/C. I do monitor our power closely to achieve these results.

Matt, great video on a very complex subject. There's been a big push by utilities to have people with rooftop solar "pay their fair share" and I've been watching State after State kill rooftop solar by eliminating net metering. Hawaii killed net metering and now their rooftop solar installation is practically zero. Same in Nevada. California ratepayers have really fought the changes to net metering because it destroys any financial incentive to install rooftop solar. The bottom line is that net metering is good for everyone except the utilities because they don't make as much money off of rooftop solar. Ironically, they "pay" less for rooftop solar power than they do for peak power from power generation companies so they're saving money on the peak days because rooftop solar power is abundant and less costly than peak power charges. They're really double dipping and even that's not enough to satisfy their greed. I recently moved to San Diego (where I'm served by SDG&E) from just north of San Francisco (where I was served by PG&E). The electric rates in San Diego are almost double what I was paying to PG&E, which came as a shock. I have a small solar system with battery storage that I use to keep my refrigerators and electronics powered at all times and it now makes economic sense, even without incentives, to expand that system to completely offset my power use. This is possible because I've already made the up-front investment in the infrastructure (e.g. LiFePO4 batteries, inverters, charge controller and panels) so now I just add a few more panels which is a pretty small cost. So guess what SDG&E - pretty soon all you'll get from me is the $0.38 per day minimum charge. I'll only hang onto their service to cover me on the rare occasion that we have multiple cloudy days and I can't charge my batteries enough.

@DanT10

9 ай бұрын

This is the same argument they have about electric cars. Since they do not use gas they do not pay the gas taxes. Increasing the burden on others. It is amazing that these large corporations all of a sudden care about others.

@kameljoe21

8 ай бұрын

There is a huge increase in people buying their own solar systems. Battery prices are low and all in one inverters are way better. The EG4 18kpv and their wall mount 14kwh battery is now only 9300 dollars which is more than enough for most houses. That is 14.3kwh of battery storage and to get double that its only 13500 now double that to add in max solar, racks, mounts and labor and you ahve a really nice system that will run for 20 to 30 years with no issuses. This is what I am going to do. Ground mount arrays and the 18kpv and its batteries are outside rated and cold rated as well. Which I plan to install under the ground mounted solar array. I have been saving and almost to my goal to pay 100% cash for it rather than loan it out for huge cost.

@thepracticalgymnast8001

8 ай бұрын

Consider very long and hard why those electricity prices are much higher

@DanT10

8 ай бұрын

@@thepracticalgymnast8001 Corporate greed?

@Duke00x

8 ай бұрын

Start calling g for utilities to be nationalized to stop poor people from suffering and see how fast the corporations shut up. They say it with hurt poor people just reply well if you are worried about poor people having to pay more how about we nationalize power service (and all other utilities whime we are at it) and make them tax payers founded. That way those that can afford it can be taxed for it and those that can't don't have to pay anything for the service." The moment they are looking at losing all of their profits they will shut up real fast.

Reminds me of a community builder who wanted to provide solar generation in their project but the local govt and utility refused to give them permission as it would allow them to govern their own community with regards to power utility. It’s about monopoly control and profits.

@shawnstillman736

11 ай бұрын

Yep the whole solar panels affecting the poor is just propaganda. Its meant to upset the uninformed and they jump just like the puppets they are.

@jameshall2219

11 ай бұрын

The concept of profit isn't bad. If companies producing off grid power generation and batteries weren't making profit, this wouldn't be available. The issue is the monopoly aspect and those with authority virtually never wish to relinquish it.

@WitchMedusa

11 ай бұрын

This is one of the reasons I love solar, it makes you more independent from governments & reduces their control on your life. We have to do what we can to stand up for our rights & independence, otherwise they will try to control more & more of your life

@maximilian6305

11 ай бұрын

@@jameshall2219 the concept of profit in the modern capitalist system is literally THE main reason why we are in a climate crisis right now.

@jameshall2219

11 ай бұрын

@@maximilian6305 Ok. Give me a detailed description of the system that you would like to put in place and examples of it being functional.

This is a very well done video, and thank you for making it! It alleviates many - though not all - of my concerns regarding rooftop solar (or more broadly, private small-scale ownership of grid-tied generation). I agree that ultimately this is a political issue, but I think it’s also tangled with a systems issue. And I’m still very concerned by the inequities angle. I can agree with the notion that prosumers should be allowed to benefit from their investment, and understand that honest utilities should view them as largely helpful and not harmful for many reasons. But here’s the rub - utilities aren’t honest, and this extra layer of complexity feels ripe to shenanigan-making. So in a lot of ways, while the idea of cost-shifting might be overblown (and they’re trying their hardest to blow it up themselves), it worries me that they currently have the levers to ensure that becomes a reality. My bottom line is that the grid is a shared resource and its upkeep needs to be a shared cost - and that’s the incredibly thorny part, especially because of how we share that cost now. I think we agree that _that_ is the real problem here. We have a very complicated system for funding the grid, particularly here in the States. And if there’s contention now, there absolutely will be as we move forward to change how those systems operate - which fundamentally I think we have to do. Setting aside my personal belief that encouraging individuals to work on cleaning up the grid is a bit questionable, if you can buy your way out of contributing to the grid’s upkeep that’s a no-go in my book. And yes, I understand that more solar defers costs, but even just the transformer and wires feeding your house is infrastructure that needs upkeep. I think the most obvious solution is to fund the grid through taxes and tell utilities to shove-off, but this is America. Maybe chipping away at this problem bit-by-bit is the right path. Solar adoption spreads as it becomes normalized - it’s one of the very real “monkey see, monkey do” aspects of humanity! And perhaps, since we are in the US and have to deal with everything that implies, I should be at peace with letting things fall as they may. But I still can’t say I’m not worried about how we go down this path. I think we need to be careful with how we proceed - we’re diving into the briar patch in one way or another.

@paulas_lens

11 ай бұрын

Do the customers of the utitities have any owners ship to the profit some of these utility companies make year over year? I don't think they would agree to that now would they.

@sschaefer11

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment on this video quickly after it was posted.

@jfolz

11 ай бұрын

The notion that rooftop solar is the one place where we need to address inequities in a hypercapitalist society is laughable.

@InfernoVor

11 ай бұрын

Yup, it feels like Matt skipped over some aspects that you mentioned. It's not as simple as electricity production = grid. A lot more goes into it.

@jeinnerabdel

11 ай бұрын

Why did I just read this with your voice in my head? So, if many people start using less electricity from the power grid, is it bad? I think most of these people just have a lower bill, and the whole point of using solar energy is to go green, and this is surely helping. The fact that there's a hit on consumption for the private, greedy companies is a good sign. With your logic, if everybody would switch to using bikes instead of cars, and then the oil companies start whining because we "cheated," we should get a fine just for not using oil? Solar panels are 2 things: -Better for the environment -An option for users

I can't say this video is particularly well-framed. It skips over one of the biggest problems with net metering, and also frames the fixed-cost argument in a way that doesn't really make much sense. One thing I will agree with is that it is the responsibility of private energy companies to ensure they meet their bottom line, and part of that is implementing a cost structure that makes sense. However, to that end, it's only obvious that bills should be broken down into a fixed 'connection charge' and a variable 'usage charge', since that accurately reflects the cost of providing the electricity. This video frames the connection charge as 'fixed costs being unfairly pushed onto low-consumption households', but in reality, the current state of affairs is 'fixed costs being unfairly pushed onto high-consumption households'. This was acceptable until now, since the high-consumption households were simultaneously the wealthy households, but with PV solar, the wealthy households become the low-consumer bracket, and thus the burden of funding the grid is left on the shoulders of the low-income households who cannot offset their energy consumption. Furthermore, the argument that 'nothing else has a fixed-cost component', giving the example of a cafe, is disingenuous for two reasons. First, the cost of a seat in a cafe is fairly small, the majority of the cost is the staff required to serve the customers, and to clean the cafe after usage, with the cost of the cleaning scaling relatively linearly with the size of the purchase made by a customer (a customer who just sits there doesn't make much mess). Also, generally a cafe is not completely packed, so amortising the fixed costs helps introduce more customers, which isn't really the case with the grid (everyone has to be connected to the grid, but no-one has to enter a cafe). Secondly, most utilities, at least where I live, have a connection charge. Water, gas, electricity, broadband, mobile networks all these items have a fixed connection cost and a variable usage cost (broadband has the caveat that usage = bandwidth, rather than usage = data, since bandwidth is the limited resource for internet connections). Sometimes these are explicitly stated, sometimes they are merged into a single, fixed-price contract based on expected usage. In addition, this video completely ignores the most significant issue with net metering, which is the variable cost of energy. Solar panels generate the vast majority of their energy during the daytime where electricity usage is fairly low, except in the middle of summer in a country with a lot of A/C. Then, in the evening, when the cost of electricity is at its highest, the PV panels stop producing electricity and the household draws from the grid. However, net metering, where the meter 'spins backwards', doesn't take these price differences into account, and so the PV customers pay effectively zero for their 'net zero' consumption, despite the fact they sold their electricity when the price was lowest, then consumed the same amount when the price was highest. In addition, they aren't paying the cost of transporting that electricity over the local distribution network. If we want PV to be fair and equitable, then we either need to expose PV customers to the variable pricing of the grid (treating them as genuine producers), or we need a fixed cost difference between selling and buying that takes into account the cost of transporting that electricity, even locally, as well as the price difference between the time of sale and time of purchase (just as how fixed-rate electricity prices are based on the average cost of providing the electricity, including the variable pricing). Also, being connected to the grid, even if you never produce or consume a single kWh, still has a cost, and so everyone connected to the grid should be paying for the cost of connecting to it. Am I saying that electricity companies are 'in the right' here? No, they're still massively profiteering from the effective monopoly they have over a basic human necessity, but even an idiot can speak the truth, and in this case the energy companies are saying something that is correct, even though their motives are impure and explanations lacking.

@bm8641

Күн бұрын

Buy a 16kwh battery mate. Problem sorted

I'm glad you did this video. I've always thought this argument was ridiculous. When I produce excess power, it goes to my neighbors. The power company reduces my bill by that amount but then charges my neighbors for the power my house produced. The result is they don't have to make that power directly but still get to charge someone for it. This essentially makes me a power generator for the power company. If I make enough in a month to be net zero as you point out they still charge me a connection fee. Furthermore, my power company charges a lower rate for any monthly use after the first 1000kw. This means my per kw cost of use is generally higher than those without solar. For me I'd love to shift the entire cost to just go off-grid. This isn't possible up north really where I live. I would estimate in southern states this could be done.

Fair share is always used as a class warfare tactic....and feels obvious when laws aren't simple and equally enforced

@grimaffiliations3671

11 ай бұрын

It makes a lot more sense regarding other issues than this one. This is just a scheme by the rich to co-opt that talking point

@Dan-du4tc

11 ай бұрын

Funny how people who are receiving pennies on the dollar from utilities like PG&E for producing energy that goes back into the grid for others to use are the ones that aren’t “paying their fair share”.

@TheLoki1983

11 ай бұрын

I see 2 replays but can't see what's typed

@madsenbaum

11 ай бұрын

@@TheLoki1983 probably scams/spam comments that get auto-deleted

They straight up murdered Solar Panel cost-benefit in Arizona. Utilities are only required to pay you 10% of the value of the electricity you send back to the grid to begin with. Then they added a 50$ a month fee on top that you have to pay off with $500 of electricity a month before you start getting a reduction on your bill. In other words, Solar Panels will never pay for themselves in Arizona. An absolute disgrace.

@deanstyles2567

11 ай бұрын

You'd think Arizona would be perfect for solar.

@gregcollins3404

11 ай бұрын

I think you are referring to the southern part of Arizona where SRP is the PoCo. Yes, they killed solar down there. The Northern half is still going strong for solar, but APS was allowed to change their rates to charge quadruple prices in the late afternoon when it is hard to produce solar power. The state is flooded with solar schiesters even at that.

@edvoon

11 ай бұрын

Try to change your usage pattern to times when your solar generation is high. Charge your EV if you have one, run your aircon, hot water, washing machine, dishwasher, etc. to use as much of your own solar as possible so it doesn’t flow out to the grid.

@Krazie-Ivan

11 ай бұрын

...just one of the many reasons we're moving to another state to build small passivhaus. AZ bends it's residents over (esp low income households) to benefit companies/shareholders at every opportunity, & it's been this way for decades. unfortunately, most people here are easily duped into cheering-on their own fleecing.

@benjaminboyer39

11 ай бұрын

@@deanstyles2567 It is perfect, that's why they killed it

There's also the potential for energy companies to shift more into industrial energy storage from production. Take my home town for example when we lose power it is almost always somewhere in the country and not in our little village. A sufficient energy storage system could potentially make power outages more trivial or at least help to keep local businesses from losing product due to the sometimes days it takes to regain power.

I think if you are feeding power back into the grid it makes sense that you are still paying to support that grid upkeep, because you are still utilizing that grid, you're still using it as a battery for when solar is low, and you're still using it as a market to sell your excess energy to. It's both a market cost for you as a seller, as well as a service cost for you having that backup for solar lows.

@djcoinlaundry

4 ай бұрын

Agreed

Cost shifting isn't the most important thing, here. The fact that solar panels help displace the need to build more fossil fuel generating plants is the most significant thing.

@turboturd7954

11 ай бұрын

Not really true, the total demand by devices on rainy days or at night, or during heat and cold waves will never be offset by solar alone

@critiqueofthegothgf

11 ай бұрын

@@turboturd7954 good thing other renewable forms of energy to create electrcity exist. no one with solar panels believes they could ever get 100% of their energy solely from solar panels

@kalvindeane1

11 ай бұрын

Nobody said that solar alone is the answer, it's part of the solution.

@UncleKennysPlace

11 ай бұрын

@@turboturd7954 It depends on the storage available. I know people in Washington state who are totally off-grid, 24/7/365.

@turboturd7954

11 ай бұрын

Wow, all three replies were completely unrelated to the point I was making about power demand. Sperg some assumption, float your own boats, pull your own chains. 😂😂😂 You lot are solar panels, been in the sun too long.😊

What our electric provider did was to drop the price of electricity and raise the base cost just for being connected to the grid. They did it in a way that the average user didn't see much difference in their bill, but solar owners are now paying an extra $20 per month. On top of this, because the cost of electricity was dropped so much (to 9 cents per kWh), it meant that it wasn't economical for anyone else to put solar on their homes.

@timhardman4764

11 ай бұрын

Great news for the electricity provider....not so great for reducing fossil fuel consumption. It's a complicated topic but we need Prosumer incentives until we reach a higher level of domestic solar production and economies of scale while allowing utilities to make a "reasonable" ROI. If the energy companies don't like the reasonable ROI idea, then public (government) ownership should start getting involved starting with maintaining the grid....distribution and buying energy from the lowest bidders and giving home Prosumers the same price on the extra energy they produce and charging all home owners, (crediting Prosumers) the same price for the energy consumed from the grid.

@markreed9853

11 ай бұрын

...it would if you bought an electric vehicle and could charge it at home - we would love your price in the UK, I'm paying the equivalent of 41 cents a Kw! - and pay 53 pence a day just to have a connection.

@TheLoki1983

11 ай бұрын

Sounds like Ameren in Missouri....

@rachels209

11 ай бұрын

I hate to be the Devil’s advocate but..... when you really look deep enough into the pricing of power, it makes sense that rooftop solar ‘producers’ are charged less that what they buy power for. The problem is the grid buys power at wholesale prices. Now just think that every rooftop solar array is pretty much, simultaneously dumping power onto grid between the hours of 10am to 2pm, when few people are at home to consume it. Then, when everyone comes home from school and work, and start consuming, the sun has lost its mojo and rooftop solar is under producing. The grid suddenly has a high demand and peak power has peak price. Here in East coast Australia, the biggest hydroelectric producing utility is investing big time into pump hydro. This is so they can buy electricity at dirt cheap prices (when all the rooftop solars and windmills are flooding the grid making wholesale power dirt cheap) to pump the water to the uphill dam, and then sell it back to the grid at peak prices in the evening when solar is useless. Trust me. I was pissed off when I saw the price of power that I fed into the grid drop to 6 cents KWh, and buy it back at 24 cent kWh, later that day. Then it was explained to me and it made (bitter) sense. The most expensive thing is power storage, be it battery, pump hydro, heat sinks etc, hence the investment in these areas.

@markreed9853

11 ай бұрын

@@rachels209 here in the UK we are finding that it's probably best to have your own battery storage so you can use your own energy at peak times from your battery. We also now have some tariffs that are flexible every 30 minutes so sometimes you pay zero for energy used, or stored in a battery during midday sun. We also have some tariff that are designed for electric vehicle charging where they pay a low rate for about 5 hours overnight. With more smart metres and technology software in the future like tesla's autobider, things will improve in the future and if you haven't got one already maybe good idea to look at an electric vehicle if you can charge it during the peak sun times as well.

One factor rarely, if ever, mentioned by Grid owners, is that significant adoption of rooftop PV actually SAVES them money. I was able to discuss this privately with the South Australian Energy Regulator about 5 years ago. Because of the distributed nature of both the loads and the power sources, it reduces the demand on the main Extra-High-Voltage transmission lines, and the network operator was able to defer expenditure to upgrade those lines.

@xfreeman86

10 ай бұрын

South Australia has the highest electricity prices in the world. Not an example for cost efficiency.

@davidinkster1296

10 ай бұрын

@@xfreeman86 Not an example for 'Free Enterprise'. Previously the entire system was publicly owned. The (Then) conservative gov. sold it off with promises of 'higher efficiency, lower prices'. Never happened. Current retail price is 10x what they pay the generation companies. I am working towards going off-grid.

One important point I'm missing is grid stability wich is also depicted by the so called "duck curve". The main function of the utility is to "keep the lights on" no matter if there is the sun shining or a cloud passes over. And since the grid works only if the amount of produced energy equals the amount of the consumed, at a certain time - there is where the diffculty is to ensure that and this comes at a high price tag. Also the so called "net metering" - it depends how much you get for the electricity you put into the grid. We have to remember that the electricity price consists out of 3 parts: production, transport and taxes. It is nice to receive a 1:1 or even higher but transport and taxes have to be paied by someone.

@philtimmons722

10 ай бұрын

If you have studied the "duck curve," you may notice it occurs during Spring and Fall -- at the lowest time of overall use. It is not so much a function of High Demand -- but rather lowest demand of the year. But the "cure" is easy -- that is to shift the Load (Time of Use) from the early evening and into the Solar Prime Time (Time of Production) during the day.

@nordic5490

8 ай бұрын

Rubbish. Solar and wind generation is inverteroutput and 100% traxks the existing wobbly spinning gerator grid. Spinning generators are anything but stable - in crease load and the generator slows down, remove load and the generator speeds up. Hence, spinning generators are made excessively massive to try an smooth out thier inherent instability. Solar and wind electronic inverters automatically agjust to match what ever erratic frequency spinning generator.power plants produce. Btw, solar and wind inverters can also operate using gps timing, woth perfect synchronicity, but this function can only be used on new frids without spinning generators. do not be fooled, here in Oz, when a house owner is paid 10c per kwhr to feed back to the grid, the electricity resaler then on-sells that kwhr of power as 'green power' @ 50c per kwhr. 'Green power' helps businesses increase their green energy rating. There is money to be made from rooftop solar.

In the UK we pay a standing charge which is meant to "cover the cost of supplying electric and gas to your property" with the energy crisis, the standing charge has been going up and up, which is a hard one to understand but it hits the lower use customers hardest.

@julianplant1797

11 ай бұрын

I'm also in the UK. As David says, standing charges, which pay for infrastructure renewal and improvement are separate to the per unit charge. The government is being lobbied to reduce the SC, which hits low volume users hardest. As we get more and more renewable electricity the SC will become the largest component of peoples bills.

@whostolemunchkin

11 ай бұрын

Australia too, ours is called a daily "supply charge" - and the price for exporting solar to the grid is ridiculously low, I pay about 5-6x more for using power than for supplying power. Supposedly to make up those 'infrastructure' costs, and the necessary upgrades to some transmission lines (which is understandable - but solar users are paying that through the lower price on exporting solar) Even though my "peak" (highest) rates are during the day, when I'm exporting, because peak demand=peak price. Not for solar though. Then it's "no you're providing it at the wrong time, we've got too much during the day!!" The major energy providers have total monopolies over their region and like always, maintaining and upgrading infrastructure is always less important than profits. You know why aussie internet is absolutely laughably shit? Same story with our phone lines. Govt owned, sold off to a company that had full ownership of all the lines & infra, and they didn't give a f*** about maintaining it. Then when our govt decided we finally need usable bloody internet, politics and bs meant they chose the literal worst option and trashed the fibre plan. Then use taxpayer money to BUY BACK the totally degraded copper network, and then replace pretty much all of it because it was just unusable. Yet still pushed ahead with this frankensteins monster of a half copper network, while paying WAY more than we would have for full fibre. And ended up with DSL speeds or slower thanks to Telstras mess. Oh and now the govt has finally admitted 'nah it was shit idea from the start' (but in politician speak of course) and we're now ripping out the copper to replace with fibre. And most people only got our 'new' internet in the last 5-8 years, at most. Some less than a year or two. So we've essentially paid 3x the price to have way worse internet service for 10-20 years. YAY PRIVATISATION - definitely great value!! Just not for the taxpayers or the country Dont even get me started on gas. We've been the top global exporter in some recent years, get f*** all for our resources and of course the fossil fuel giants pay zero tax. Literally. And on top of that, we pay MORE for our own gas than the customers overseas importing our gas. Somehow it worked out cheaper to re-import our exported gas during "shortages" because we're ripped off that much on our own damn resources. Just processing gas for exports uses as much gas as the whole country, yet somehow there's a shortage. It's such an obvious con, especially by now, and its galling and infuriating that there's zero imperative - barely even a mention - of reining in this madness. Even as no one can deny how much this is affecting the economy and crushing the citizens that own the bloody stuff. Side note: also extremely frustrating that governments will throw money at shit like rebuilding a perfectly fine stadium, that's privately owned & it and the sports teams make millions. And it's justified with 'improving infrastructure'. I still think regulation or deprivatisation makes a hell of a lot more sense, so taxpayers aren't subsidising more profit and less utility. But critical infrastructure is literally critical for survival, it absolutely ridiculous to see 10s or 100s of millions poured into the most unnecessary and wasteful but showy nonsense. Like knocking down a new, perfectly fine stadium with enough capacity for national and international sport. To build basically the same thing, with a handful of extra seats (another non-problem) and a few surface level shiny things like touchscreens. And this is a worthwhile investment for the community, despite the owners and teams being perfectly able to pay for it themselves, and definitely a better investment for the community paying for it than hospitals. Schools. Social services, public housing. Our rural firefighting service, the ones who battle the crazy apocalyptic bushfires, for free btw. Funding cuts before the 2019/2020 bushfires, yeah the massive unprecedented monster fires. The volunteers that fight those fires and save lives, for free - actually losing money to take time off work - had what little funding for equipment, running costs, the stuff they need to fight fires. Got cut back, despite being a tiny amount in comparison, so we could rebuild a stadium for no reason.

@davidellis1355

11 ай бұрын

The dream is to go off grid, if I can ever afford it

@IXISSV

11 ай бұрын

The UK standing charge recently increased to cover the 15 or so energy companies that went buts and the government had to bail/cover their debts. Energy prices shouldn't really increase anymore as more solar & wind is pumped in to the network, so the coal, gas & nuclear plants wont have to generate as much electricity, therefore cutting costs 🤞

@spoonwzd

11 ай бұрын

What with all the sunshine recently and the battery storage I have, I've been 24/7 off grid now for over 3 weeks. It really sucks to be paying 55p a day for something I'm not even using.

Here's why this question exists: Matt describes the reduction in non-PV demand as a net benefit to everyone. It's not. It's bad for utility INVESTORS. That's why the myth exists. Because the industry cannot conceive of making less profit without fear of investors fleeing and devaluing their company or executives making a smaller salary.

@Vulcano7965

11 ай бұрын

These "obligations" to always increase profits is the most destructive force of the global community. Leads always to one of the worst decisions without taking into account the bigger picture.

@joewilson3393

11 ай бұрын

💯

@peter65zzfdfh

11 ай бұрын

Ultimately if it gets bad enough and they don’t replace the income at all they stop existing and the grid collapses. It’s why utilities where competition is impossible need to be heavily regulated and likely nationalised. There’s no point privatising a business that you cannot afford to fail, what are profits but a reward for potential failure. In countries where these utilities are not for profit and solar uptake is high (eg Australia), this is absolutely a problem as solar peaks at more or less the same time across the country and causes oversupply and negative value of energy, whereas peak demand is several hours later. Thus using the grid as a battery is actually a net cost to any utility. Profits or not, this is a real problem just to break even. To stop everything from collapsing feed in rates had to be lowered to 1/4 or less of usage rates.

@eatmanyzoos

11 ай бұрын

and we're talking about energy companies which consistently tried to destroy the world, our government, science, disrupt peace and innovation, and let countries that sell more oil than us hack and sabotage the innovators in the west.

@strykenine7902

11 ай бұрын

This right here. Rent seeking behavior.

I live in AZ and when I was shopping for solar SRP announced they were going to start charging a $200 a month fee for solar owners and gave the public a week notice to get solar before they started the fee. It was eventually set at $50 (a marketing strategy to make people think they got off easy to reduce push back) and seems they have changed it a bit more. From the SRP website - "Solar customers pay a slightly higher monthly service charge than non-solar customers. Customers with systems of 200 amps or under pay a monthly service fee of $32.44, and customers with systems over 200 amps are charged a monthly service fee of $45.44. This helps SRP recover fixed costs to support grid capacity. If you’re on a demand price plan, you’ll also pay a demand charge." I was lucky and was able to get my system before the deadline so I don't have the monthly solar "fine" and pay a $20 "service fee" every month.

In my country the electricity energy bill consist of the electricity cost (or costs, in case you have solar, its with positive amount but negative value) and the system usage costs which is based on the amount of eletricity moved (so + and - together). So even if you are a net contributor, you are still paying for grid maintenance and upkeep.

i always love how things could be "twisted" to sound legit

Well, this video has pushed me a little closer to setting up our new house that we're building as off-grid 100% solar. There was already the cost of running the power to the site from the road, so I think I'd rather spend the $$ on a more robust array and battery bank.

@mr.makeit4037

11 ай бұрын

And as Matt said regarding 100% off grid design, if you over-sized your system, you can either find ways to use the extra electricity in the summer and not waste it. Or create more battery storage for winter months or start a business charging batteries for others during the summer months.

@rajarampatel601

11 ай бұрын

Bro, battery system is still not affordable and life span of a battery pack limited to 4 or 5 years

@RandomActsOfMusic1

11 ай бұрын

@@rajarampatel601 *2v lead acid cells have 25-30 year lifespan. its what cellular towers use.

@rajarampatel601

11 ай бұрын

@@RandomActsOfMusic1 price must be high

@OffGridSupplies

11 ай бұрын

Offgrid - go for it :) I'm offgrid in the UK at 53 degrees North and learned a few things over the years. Most of my EV charging comes from the house too. 1) Dimension your system around the output during winter solstice then overengineer the PV capacity. Understand your energy demands. 2) Aim for about 5 days usable battery capacity and keep a small generator to top them up occasionally. 3) Only look at LiFePO4 cells, don't touch Li-Ion or Lead Acid. Li-ion are dangerous when overcharged and Lead acid don't like more than 50% discharge. if you look after them LiFePO4 will be good for 20+ years. Individual cells are cheap, just add your own BMS. 4) Use dual inverters etc. so if one blows up you still have power! Victron are expensive but they are very reliable. 5) Ensure you have alternative heat sources (wood stove) just in case. Even grid connected users should think about this. 6) Keep the system simple, don't rely on Internet connected management systems to keep the lights working.

Thanks for the great video as always. You have done a few videos on Solar and one topic that could use some attention is solar and anti-islanding regulation. Specifically how current regulations negates one of the benefits of installing solar which is power when the grid is down. My family was in the process of installing solar and during the process each person we interacted with we asked, "when the grid goes down will we still be able to use our solar panels" to which the answer was "Yes". The reason we asked is because many grid-tied inverters require a "sync signal" in order to operate. Being skeptical it was not until forcing the issue and reviewing the actual electrical schematic that I was able to determine that when the grid went down the system would isolate and become completely non-operational. Isolating the system is not the problem because we need to protect the linemen that need to repair the system. The issue is after isolation current regulation (at least in my area of Texas) requires the solar panel to remain non-operational even though it is ok to have a whole home battery or generator. My belief is that most folks installing solar don't realize the system will not operate when the grid is down even though the panels area able to create power.

@STEVEC66

11 ай бұрын

Oddly enough I had a similar conversation with my electrician this week. He confirmed that on external power loss my inverter would stop and as you heard, this is to protect people working on the grid whilst it's out. However, he pointed out that my inverter has a second output which would work from the battery/solar but I've not got it wired up. You can't wire this second feed into the house, so at best you could wire a socket into it and keep the freezer running. TBH, a UPS would do a better job I suspect.

The key is that PGE has discovered that installing solar is so profitable that they want to be the ones to install it with large grid scale projects. They can't do that without the duck curve hitting them if prosumers keep installing capacity so they needed to find a way to make it uneconomic.

@spazoq

11 ай бұрын

REGULATION. It's profitable because the rate payers are paying for it with higher energy costs. You guys really don't understand how it works at all.

@GerryRR

9 ай бұрын

​@@spazoqexactly. If solar owners were being paid wholesale spot rates rather than whatever the government regulated feed-in rates are, the situation would be much more equitable.

I think a lot of the problem is that we're letting private for profit companies supply infrastructure. Infrastructure is (or at least should be) government's job. We don't let private companies run our roads, why do we let them run our grid? Especially when necessity demands it be monopolistic (we really don't want two or three sets of wires running everywhere).

@lesschorlemer5151

11 ай бұрын

"why do we let them run our grid?" Because private industry *ALWAYS* does things better than government. Look at rockets as an example. The SLS rocket that we're going to use to get astronauts to the moon costs 4 billion per launch. Elon Musk and SpaceX can make an equivalent rocket for 1/20th the cost.

@ktmacgoo

11 ай бұрын

And Government is doing a good job with roads?

@mikefochtman7164

11 ай бұрын

I've heard the exact opposite argument regarding health care in the US. Seems people don't like the idea of government control any more than private companies, depending on the argument du jour.

@grimaffiliations3671

11 ай бұрын

@@mikefochtman7164 Healthcare in the US truly sucks because of private control. A single payer system would save us a lot of money and improve health outcomes

@Rogstin

11 ай бұрын

Nebraska has public utilities for electricity. The state requires cities to also provide water, gas, and waste management if above a certain size _(which is only the largest city as the second largest, the capital, keeps getting the legislature to up the limit so they don't have to provide water, gas, and waste management)._

So long story short these electricity companies are afraid of having to change their monopoly business practice of getting to charge everyone as much as they want.

@carholic-sz3qv

11 ай бұрын

Lol!!!!

@epelegrillopart

11 ай бұрын

To be fair, we should also point out that "... and the politicians are unwilling to tackle the changes needed". The CPUC - California Public Utilities Commission is the one that is approving the requests from the IOUs (Investor Owned Utilities). And the California Senate/Governors are the ones that are letting the current situation continue.

Here in the Netherlands we have split bills. One part for the grid operator, one part for the electricity use. The grid one is determent by how much amps your connection can use and is a set price. Solar will only offset the usage bill, not the grid bill. In my opinion that is fair

I have to say one of the biggest benefits of my city is its municipal power company. We are one of two or three in Connecticut, and while it does equate to a slight increase in mill rate, they are very involved and motivated to enact measures to lower use or increase in-city generation. Being that it is municipal and not statewide or multi-town as many for-profit companies are, it puts the costs and benefits more directly into the immediate community. With such a situation, I've wondered about a distributed system and increasing access to lower and moderate income homes to solar. I know of at least one rental community in another of the CT towns that has municipal power that has done this, and installed solar on every roof that makes sense, and the entire community has electric included. Since it is a rental company, I am sure the rates are inflated for profit, but the design is solid and worth expanding to the whole town.

One aspect not mentioned in the video is how rooftop solar (and DER more generally) can help to lower the cost of the transmission and distribution networks for everyone. The networks must be dimensioned to accommodate peak demand (at some level of reliability). In Australia at least (and probably many other places), reverse cycle air conditioners have become the main load at peak times which happens to also occur during the day time when solar output is at its maximum. This means the rooftop solar cuts off the peak loads in the transmission networks which then don't need to be as over dimensioned. Allowing for lower peaks in demand means the transmission system is better utilised making it cheaper to build and operate... for everyone.

@dphachey

11 ай бұрын

I was thinking the exact same thing. Savings in capital costs for the utility companies is enormous! But why would they want that, when they can build more and charge more!!!

@rossjohnson7916

11 ай бұрын

@@dphachey If the energy market is well designed, using the deployed infrastructure efficiently (i.e. high utilisation without frequent saturation) should be cheaper for everyone. Historically in the Australian NEM (east coast), the transmission/distribution providers proposed what they wanted to do and got approval from the market regulator to recover the costs (much as you describe). This led to what was widely referred to at the time as 'gold plating' the poles and wires. These days I like to think there is more critical assessment done. What has also changed is the fact that the amount of new infrastructure needed for the move to renewables is VERY significant. There simply isn't room for building stuff that isn't a priority to the network. This is where planning comes in...

@phillipmills474

11 ай бұрын

problem down here in Australia is we are getting screwed over on our Feed in Tariffs, we get charged 20-50c/kw purchased and only getting back 2,5 or 10c/kw on FiT, i get 13c with Powershop Where as some areas of the USA (in his other videos) he mentioned that he gets a 1: 1 FiT which is great of you produce a shit tonne of power in summer

@Jack-hd4nq

11 ай бұрын

This isn’t accurate for the U.S. In most of the U.S. peak demand for an average day occurs in the early evening. This is largely because of AC, like you said. For the U.S. though, in the early evening workplaces are still using AC and people getting home are also using it, and piling on things like lights (less a factor with LEDs) and electricity driven entertainment. This doesn’t apply to every single day, if temperatures get really high then drop considerably an afternoon peak is definitely possible in the U.S., and probably more common in Australia. The other thing that happens in the evening is the sun sets. These two factors create what’s called the “duck curve” where solar is dropping as peak approaches requiring the relatively rapid replacement of that generation. This causes a lot of wear on generators, especially older ones designed before this sort of ramping was even thought of, which we’re starting to see the consequences of. So, unfortunately, the cost savings in the U.S. aren’t as apparent.

@brentlanyon4654

11 ай бұрын

only if you can time shift generation

Previously it was "aesthetic concerns" getting limits legislated on solar installation. I guess that excuse wore thin so they came up with this BS instead. I can't even remember the latest excuse for "outrage" against a new solar farm being installed in my area, but it was laughably bizarre. When profits start being lost to competition, suddenly the free market goes out the window every time.

@eatmanyzoos

11 ай бұрын

the entire political situation we've been in since bush jr has been an effort to stand in the way of innovation around renewable energy. it always goes back to these companies representing the old fashioned fascist brute mentality that will destroy the world and then itself when it doesnt get its way, like every fascist institution.

@xXAbdulBaqiXx

11 ай бұрын

aesthetic concerns are still present in the UK

@Merennulli

11 ай бұрын

@@xXAbdulBaqiXx Sorry to hear that. I can't help but facepalm at how an ugly, harmful and difficult to maintain invasive species is required by law on our lawns, but an innocuous panel on our roofs is an "aesthetic concern".

@CrossWindsPat

11 ай бұрын

Every single time.... Free market for me, not for thee....

Thank you for that perspective, which I feel is pretty accurate. My experience of the past couple of years since adopting CCA power generation separate from delivery provider SDGE (San Diego) has resulted in similar usage rates, but almost 3 times the rate from SDGE to provide the existing grid delivery system. Gone are the days of a company paying the costs of doing business themselves. The PUC of California is not protecting consumers. I also plan to retire in 6 years and to become a prosumer with solar unless SoCal Edison makes it too costly to not just go off the grid completely with their extortion.

As long as feed-in is regulated and the prices you get are decided by someone other than your electricity provider, you absolutely are shifting your costs into other customers.

Electrical companies were originally allowed/told to form monopolies because it wasn't cost effective for or helpful to the municipalities to have 5 different electrical lines that need to be installed under every road so people could choose their power source. After a century of that status quo, electrical companies just can't stand the idea of losing their monopoly/vice grip on a resource that we can no longer live without.

@shockcoach

11 ай бұрын

Ever see some old pictures of the utility poles before they established the monopolies? Not a pretty site. I think our current version was a compromise.

@arkheavyindutries

11 ай бұрын

This is in my opinion a big argument towards state or federal ownership of the electric infrastructure.

In the Netherlands the cost per kwh is from an energy supplier. The cost for the connection is from the net-supplier. There both split. The net cost depends on the the connection-size (up to 3x25A for individual homes it the standard) If you want a bigger connection, you pay more.

@UncleKennysPlace

11 ай бұрын

Ha, the standard new connection in the USA is a 200 amp 240 volt hookup. Most people don't need more than 100.

@turboturd7954

11 ай бұрын

​@@UncleKennysPlace Theirs quite a bit of money to be made selling 200Amp, when only 100A is plenty. Disgusting!

@jonevansauthor

11 ай бұрын

@@UncleKennysPlace why is the standard 200 amps then? Are you sure it's not because there's an anticipated future need for EV charging, more powerful PCs and other uses? I ask because you seem to thinks 200amps is bad?

@epelegrillopart

11 ай бұрын

Yep. I am all for this. Same in Spain.

Great topic ! Here in Quebec, we have a charge for having access to the grid. As of April 1 this year, the charge is 43,505 cents a day. Hydro Quebec is a public utility. During a billing period (typically 60 days), the cost of the first 40 kWh per day is 6,509 cents per kWh. After that, the cost is 10,041 cents per kWh. So for a 60 day billing period, if you use on average 40 kWh, you pay $26.10 for access to the grid and for the first 2400 kWh for the 60 days you pay $156.22 (total - $182.32). Should you use an average of 50kWh per day, you would add $60.25 to your bill. With these tarifs, Hydro Quebec is capable of doing the necessary maintance on the grid, as well as paying an annual dividend to the Quebec government. The "cost shifting" debate, as you rightly point out, seems to be a huge red herring !

Matt, very good view into the complex issue. I found it interesting that at no point did anyone ever mention, or quantify, and especially put a dollar value on: the electricity being generated by the new "prosumer" class, which is constantly growing. These are people who have taken the steps, logistical and financial, to get solar installations, and tie them to the grid. This simple act makes them PART OF THE GRID; this means that "The Grid" isn't something the utilities own and we use at their pleasure. We have all, already, been subsidizing and contributing to the development and maintenance of the grid, so we're all investors too. That's before any grid-tied solar home installations. All those consumers have now taken on power generation and contribute not just funding through rates, but THEY CONTRIBUTE THE ASSET BEING USED AND CHARGED FOR. Prosumer means that building now uses electricity and produces it as well. So utility companies now get to depend on a huge, distributed, diverse, offsite field of mini power-generators whose equipment they don't have to maintain. They get the benefits of distributing costs and management of power generation, while controlling their costs of operating. We as homeowners are never given the option to negotiate those net metering rates. This issue is indeed complicated, but I hope everyone realizes what Matt has kindly only intimated: Large utility businesses are operating like they own all parts of the grid and consumers all need to "pay their fair share".... Much like massive global polluters (petroleum) like to stir up public sentiment about "doing our part" to reduce environmental pollution. It's a PR game to shift blame and redirect attention away from their massive role in the equation, and how much $$$ they're making, at the same time you are being asked to turn off lights and live in colder houses. Follow the $$$ indeed. It's not really clear, from a citizen's POV, why electric or internet utilities are private businesses at all. They should be public goods, since they are essential, and government and tax subsidies have always supported their growth and development.

As much as I want to encourage more rooftop solar, I do think the money "prosumers" (I hate that word, but I will use it) receive for selling electricity to the grid, should depend on the demand at the time they sell it. During a sunny summer day, solar could drive the price of energy negative (this has happened in Australia). It would not make sense for the grid to pay "prosumers" for their electricity at that time of the day. Also, such variable energy prices encourage energy storage initiatives, which is something we really need for solar to grow. I have no idea whether this variable energy pricing already happens, though.

the audacity that a conglomerate of multi-billion dollar companies label me the bad guy for not wanting to play a rigged game is astounding.

@xoso599

11 ай бұрын

But you still want the grid connection to supply you on demand power just in case. Try not to be so smug.

@mdgraller

11 ай бұрын

Don't forget to recycle your plastic cup and turn your heat to 70! Also, don't talk about the millions of barrels of oil we've accidentally dumped into the ocean due to laxing safety regulations pushed by lobbyists and stamped by captured regulators :^)

@tarakivu8861

11 ай бұрын

@@xoso599 And you pay for it, just less. And after all, the provider could build solar themselves, making electricity cheaper, leading to less people building it themselves.

@xoso599

11 ай бұрын

@@tarakivu8861 No they can't because solar isn't cheaper if you are the final stop for supplying power to the grid. Without extremely expensive battery backup systems, all you are doing is building expensive solar to run during the day then need to build extra on demand generation to meet peak demand. If the utility could just black out the grid every day when peak grid demand hit they would save huge amounts of money on peaking generation, transmission capacity costs and on buying peak power from other suppliers. But that's not an option the power must stay on all the time to the best of the ability of the utility to keep it on. Grid solar is more or less useless. Any benefit it offers must be matched with huge battery storage and if we ever get good battery storage (Cheap, reliable, scalable, safe) it works better to match that with on demand generation like nuclear or coal. Solar does have some use people might want, like running DC air conditioning units that only run on solar power or reversed as heat pumps. Water heaters are another option. But the key part of those applications is storing energy for later. Solar only comes out ahead for a small number of users that are given sweetheart deals on selling excess energy back and not being forced to pay for peak power and get subsidies on installation. Solar is just terrible for prices; Ontario that once had electricity so cheap that it was constantly used as proof of a subsidy to their auto industry now after years of building grid solar has very often the most expensive power in North America. Every year billions in excess charges are forced on Ontario rate payers while their massive nuclear plants idle along all day. People get very aggressive about sticking it to the power company and how it's just a scam to make money. And yet in areas with not for profit state run power generation we see the identical problems of solar overgeneration during the day making electricity overall more expensive because of peak demand.

Here in my country, you need the grid to install your PV systems, so you still have to pay utilities. From my research as an electrical engineering PhD student, the problem with PV is that they stress the grid by shifting demand around. You have a lot of generation when you don't need that much energy, and when the PV system isn't active (at night), you have the most consumers at home, using energy that has to be offered by the grid. It creates an imbalance. PV systems also tend to shift your tension values slightly, creating a host of power quality problems. Mind you, this is for us here in Brasil. I have no clue how it is in the USA

Reminds me of when TiVo and DVRs first became a thing, particularly the automatic commercial-skipping features. One major network exec opined that "viewers all implicitly signed agreements to watch the ads". Never did hear the explanation as to how going to the bathroom during breaks didn't constitute breach of that particular contract.

This video needs way more views. It's an actual national issue people could be making a difference about and unfortunately won't be on the news because they're bought out just like our politicians...

@allenbarrow4904

11 ай бұрын

That's the real reason why public utilities offer to install solar panels because it drives their costs down while getting a free power source at the user's expense. Notice the price of backup batteries are either nonexistent or offered for installation. Yet dig deeper into it, their is legislation prohibited these batteries for home use or to prevent these installations.

Here in Brazil the same thing is happening. In my point of view, the problem is that a public service of such importance should not be private, so the decrease in energy production costs would fully offset any expenditure on maintenance of transmission and distribution networks.

We went with solar on a new construction build here in Central CA. Not because we believe it's the future (we don't) but because we simply could not afford not to do so. Electricity in our area is now at $0.52 kWh, due to CA's desire to source carbon free electricity. We managed to squeak into NEM 2.0, where PG&E basically pays us the going market rate for the electricity we send into the grid. You simply cannot beat that. With NEM 3.0 which is now in effect, you have to have batteries to have it make sense. CA basically has too much solar energy already. It all peaks at one point in the day and tapers off before and after that, going to zero for a large part of the day. That makes it very difficult to balance the grid, where the energy used has to exactly equal the energy produced every second of every day. CA wants people to install expensive battery storage units so they can draw off of them at night to reduce their costs. If we can eventually afford enough battery storage to go off-grid we will do so. We don't believe in battery storage either, but that's what we're being pigeon holed into.

I’m in Australia and I have installed a solar system this month. Trying to size my system based on aiming for a zero bill was nearly impossible to figure out. My feed back to the grid is capped to 3Kw due to my distance from the local transformer but I couldn’t determine that until I installed. I then found that my feed back is also capped my my energy provider to a fixed amount each month and then the rate is dropped. I included batteries in my system to cover night time usage and one cloudy day so on even average days I should use nearly zero power. The other thing is what I pay for power is four times more expensive that what I get paid to feed back. The power supplier gets to sell that power to other customers at a huge profit. But not at an inflated price for poor people. The power companies are doing their best to make sure their profit is protected and the marketing is very tricky indeed. I think customers saving power to save money simply forces power companies to increase prices to maintain profits. It certainly is a complicated relationship. I’m yet to find out how my system goes over 4 seasons.

If I remember correctly, Arizona made it illegal to go completely off the grid via solar, and of course you've got to pay a large fee for being on the grid, even if you don't use it at all. Government enforced monopoly.

Great job on a very complicated topic! I have had roof top solar for 30 years and love it. Recently, since I live in California the utilities won and got the incentives reduced in net metering. Ridiculous and you showed us why. Thank you!

@alexandruilea915

11 ай бұрын

So how exactly is the law in Cali? Like if you produce 100 kWh and then two months later when it's winter you use the 100 kWh that you injected in the grid how much to you pay for using the grid compared with the total energy cost?

@LT1SWAPCOM

11 ай бұрын

​@@alexandruilea915 The way it used to work: The power you generate during the day, your home uses some, and some goes to the grid. At night all your electric comes from the grid (unless you have battery). The utility company gives you a 1:1 ratio on what you give them during the day for what you use during the night. That worked for the billing period from your utility. So if you had a run of sunny days, and you banked up 500 extra KWH, and then you have a week of cloudy days, you can get 500 kwh back at no cost as long as it was within that same billing period. At the end of the month or billing period, any extra KWH you had sent the utility that you did not use, turns into a bill credit, $$ off your future bills. This was calculated by the utility "cost avoidance", so if you sent them an extra 500 kwh after all your use for the billing period, they would calculate what it would have cost to get 500kwh from a coal plant, or nuke, wherever they get the power, and credit you that much toward next bill. In my area its about 4:1. Electric in my area is flat $0.11 per kwh. (cheap i know) It works out to about $0.035 bill credit per kwh extra for the bill period. Under the new rules for net metering, ALL EXCESS ENERGY YOU SEND TO THE GRID, IS CREDITED AT COST AVOIDANCE, day by day, hour by hour.

absolutely correct assessment. in the long run, this will only force people to go off grid as i have. and the costs are not that high if you diy as i have. best of all, pv setup is quite easy to learn, design, and implement. it is best implemented with the more efficient solar hot water setup to offload heating from pv setup. heating, both water and space, are the least efficient use of your pv electricity. my solar hot water with wood stove backup for the couple of months i get no sun works quite well way up close to the canadian border where i am. i use old water heaters as storage tanks for hot water so i have a huge heat battery at a very low cost. all my panels are on a 45 deg south facing roof to maximize collection in winter thereby flattening my energy curve a bit. i use old ev batteries as they are absolutely perfect for home power use since a properly setup system does not tax the battery with heavy drain/charge cycles.

Thank you for laying this topic out so well for us. The content you make is educational and easy to understand. A lot of the problems we see in the media nowadays are directly linked to how a company feels as opposed to the true statistics. Unless we do our part and educate people on the real facts and not what a company or the "news" feeds us, we will never be free from the ruling class and their tyranny. Thank you very much for doing your part, you earned yourself a new subscriber. Keep up the great work.

This was a discussion we had here in Australia probably 10 years ago now. The utility companies started charging a "grid connection fee" for those with rooftop PV. So people started buying batteries and disconnecting from the grid. For the reasons you pointed out, grid defection at a large scale would be catastrophic for those left connected to an aging and now very inefficient grid. As for the idea of a cost shift, the point they are missing is that as a rooftop PV owner, I am investing in the generating infrastructure so that the utility company doesn't have to invest so much. It just happens to be on my roof. It is no different to buying shares in the utility company so that they can build infrastructure. The final point I want to make is that in Australia we have schemes where you can get PV installations at no cost. A company will install the panels on your roof and you pay for them over time with savings on your power bills. Of course, you have to own a roof but it does remove some of the financial barriers.

@spazoq

11 ай бұрын

LOL, what are you even talking about? Electricity use goes up, power companies have to spend money to create more power. If YOU LEAVE they don't need to spend that money. Basic math. Even in Australia the sun doesn't shine at night. Your solar does nothing then but power your home if you have batteries.

@CharlesReinmuth

11 ай бұрын

​​​​@@spazoq I'm not sure you're following. Utilities have some costs of production, but most of them have high up-front costs to produce anything at all. A hydro electric dam costs nearly as much to run with 1,000 people connected to it as it does with 10,000 people connected to it. But if 9,000 people leave, then the remaining thousand are left to share the costs: the employees salaries, the facilities upkeep, the grid maintenance, customer service software, any needed upgrades or repairs, etc. A coal plant has more input costs that could be reduced, but the same concept still applies... There's a HUGE cost just to run a coal plant in the first place. And, on a super macro scale, if all the coal plants buy less coal, the coal companies will eventually mine less coal (surplus is bad for economics) and charge more due to the scarcity. All-around it is about energy companies losing economies of scale when they lose customers. More than likely, they need a grid that reaches just as far and wide as before, but with fewer people connected to it. That IS a catastrophe for the energy companies. It is not "simple math" as in the cost to produce and units to produce is 1:1. Instead, the cost to produce is ($$$a fairly high fixed number)+(($energy input costs):1 unit to produce) / capita

If power companies actually invested more money into the grid instead of shareholder dividends, there would be no cost shifting. But no! Shareholders dividends matter!

@Rogstin

11 ай бұрын

More US states should be like Nebraska _(in this regard)._ The whole state is supplied by publicly owned electrical utilities.

@aredesuyo

11 ай бұрын

Of course shareholder dividends matter. Dividends are a major reason for investing in a slow-growth security.

@dannydaw59

11 ай бұрын

I agree. Use the shareholder dividend money on maintenance and improvements to the grid. It could be non profit and still private under control of the public service commission.

I agree with you completely. From living in California for 25 years, I can tell you that PG&E has tried questionable things and is roundly despised among pretty much anyone I ever met there. I can see some sort of grid maintenance tax, but it should be auditable every year and levied in an equitable way.

INSTALLED SOLAR & ELECTRIC HOME CHARGING STATION a few months ago. Put in enough panels to handle the EV charging. No more high electric bills (just a small charge for grid connection) or gas bills for my car(s). It's a win, win.

The utility companies have not been maintaining the utility systems for decades at least.

@UncleKennysPlace

11 ай бұрын

That is totally incorrect.

@MrErizid

11 ай бұрын

@@UncleKennysPlace PG&E causing wildfires with their equipment that hasn't been replaced since the 1940s would say otherwise.

@turboturd7954

11 ай бұрын

Same as the water infrastructure and many more. Its all been rorted to extort the consumers, and approved by your captors called government. I wonder what our great great grandfathers would think now? Because when the built it, they were thinking it will be for the betterment, ease and enjoyment of their future generations!

@Blaxjax21

11 ай бұрын

@@UncleKennysPlace Sorry but I live in West Virginia where the water company keeps having 100+ year old water mains fail, That is just one example

@Dan-Simms

11 ай бұрын

I'm sure they maintain it... Maybe not upgrade but no one would have power if no maintenance lol.

I think I'm actually pretty fortunate with my electric utility, LES or Lincoln Electric System here in Lincoln NE. It's a not for profit utility, so they are better incentivized to navigate, and therefore are better navigating, the use of residential solar. What Matt said about sizing your solar system so incredibly large to where it's all you need year round, is very accurate. It would be hugely expensive for everyone to be their own utility without any grid. As far as I'm concerned, the power grid is possibly the best invention humans have come up with so far. Look at how many other inventions rely on it to do what they do. In my mind, the power grid and fertilizer are competing for the title of the world's best invention. We should be using residential solar when we can instead of sucking up all of the power losses incurred with transmission from a centralized power station out miles and miles away to where the power is used. When that isn't practical, i.e. the sun isn't shining, We still need a big interconnected grid to supply everyone with what they need, when they need it, reliably. It feels very childish to me that these utilities that are fighting residential solar don't see that. But they are incentivized not to see that because they are just chasing the biggest profit that the residents in their utility district, i.e. their local monopoly, will stomach before those residents revolt.

We have the LARQ water jug and love it. Great tasting water! Love the in depth discussion and yes, it is very complex. These myth's that get momentum and influence policy has massive impact on world as a whole. More transparency is needed so these systems can be better understood.

Good video. I appreciated the statistics in the beginning regarding usage drops from energy saving appliances vs solar production. Yet, somehow, no one is railing against using less energy. Good job.

Wow, peeling an onion never seemed so apt. Exquisite analysis of a deeply complex subject. Governments and policy makers should be careful who they listen to, particularly where profits create bias. As you said, follow the money! Outstanding video.

I remember a news story from Florida where a completely solar and battery power independent resident was "forced" to hook up to the grid and pay a minimum charge.

@jstaffordii

11 ай бұрын

And every Public Utility Commission vote that connection fee keeps increasing. F@#k Duke Energy and FPL.

@Rainbow_Oracle

11 ай бұрын

Do you know where that exactly that was? Because that totally fucking scares me. But I've heard that some towns are like that. These rich people neighborhoods that have an "aesthetic" that the the inclusion of solar panels would somehow "damage", even if they aren't installed on your roof, but even in the backyard out of sight. It's totally absurd that they can control other people's private property like that. Like I'm sure that it's illegal for them to do that at some level up the chain, but they make impossible and not worth the fight to do it.

@jstaffordii

11 ай бұрын

@@Rainbow_Oracle If I remember correctly it was in Sanford, FL Seminole County jurisdiction.. It was on our local Central Florida news stations.

Appreciate the video. Please don't forget about Hawai'i/Alaska in your stats/maps/conversations. So many videos that talk about "X issue facing the US" omit those two because they aren't adjacent to the continental 48. They're states too, and have interesting factors in the solar conversation, especially considering that both Hawai'i and Alaska have a lot of smaller island grids. Hawai'i has a very high percentage of its total energy use coming from solar (a respectable 17%), and is well positioned geographically for solar because of the minor seasonal changes. Hawai'i also was the first state to mandate that 100% of its energy must be renewable by 2045. Alaska is in the exact opposite position geographically with extreme seasonal variation but could hugely benefit from energy buyback programs due to the midnight sun. Generate tons of solar power in the summer, stock up credits for the winter. If any place needs to invest in batteries it's Alaska.

There are several things missing here: most solar prosumers are receiving retail cost benefit for energy they provide vs the wholesale cost that utilities pay in general. So the utilities are being forced to subsidize by the retail / wholesale price difference. The other thing to realize is that most utilities are energy distributors, not energy generators. So in order to pay retail rates to solar homes someone else has to make up the difference. Depending on their contract with energy producers they may have to pay for power they don’t use-the use it or lose it clause. I’m all for solar on homes but you need to give utilities a chance to renegotiate long term power contracts and make the amount they pay for power consistent across all sources. What will the service level agreement be between residential solar providers and the utility? You’re mandating that the utilities pay for power whether or not they have a use for it. This is a much more complex issue, you’ve barely scratched the surface.

My main thought is, that it doesnt really make sense for an electric company to buyback electricity at retail costs (net metering) instead of purchasing at wholesale price. With the exception of areas where they actually need the additional production capacity of buying back electricity from the users

@reid1boys

11 ай бұрын

the state required them to do so in order to meet the states renewable energy goals. People want to dismiss the fact solar doesnt spew out emissions into our air.... how much is that worth to the non solar customers? It doesnt require the utilities to keep installing long distance transmission lines. How much is that worth??? They dont even calculate those savings into their BS info about cost shifting.

@percyfaith11

11 ай бұрын

It delays or prevents the building of more capacity to "future proof" the system.

@emblemboy

11 ай бұрын

@@percyfaith11 I agree and I'd love for companies to create these incentives themselves, but if we truly want to subsidize electricity costs (and not just hardware costs of installation that we current have ) to incentivize more solar, then the govt kinda has to be the one to push that. The same way they are the ones incentivizing solar panel installation costs.

@percyfaith11

11 ай бұрын

@@emblemboy Incentivizing excess capacity during the day when the peak use is during the night is a waste of resources and a drag on the utilities that must buy that excess power. Solar is variable and not dependable. Powerplants cannot be easily or economically trimmed back the same way that a house thermostat can be.

@rodmunch69

11 ай бұрын

@@emblemboy how about this - I don't want to pay for your toys. Pay for your own stuff, and I'll pay for my own stuff, and stop looking for handouts.

"Everyone needs to pay their fair share for the roads." - According to the 4th power rule, semis should be paying for 50%+ of road maintenance, additionally roads are subsidized by taxes other than gas and EV taxes. So very few people are paying their "fair" share....

@link10909

11 ай бұрын

They used to do this via the gas tax, meaning there often was a relationship between vehicle weight (and therefore wear on the roads) to fuel tax paid. This is also the reason new taxes or a per mile fee has been brought up for electric vehicles as they arent paying gas tax.

@codynoahconn

11 ай бұрын

They do pay more though... More fees to tittle/operate as well as consuming substantially more (taxed) fuel.

@medea27

11 ай бұрын

About the only thing that guy had going for him was that his road analogy was as ridiculous & demonstrably incorrect as their solar "cost-shifting" concept.

@victormiranda9163

11 ай бұрын

you are not noticing that the fuel taxes do not always go to road maintenance...

@Species-lj8wh

11 ай бұрын

@@victormiranda9163 That's a different problem.

I have watched this twice and honestly it convinced me that cost shifting is actually an issue. Great points on highlighting the complexity of the topic, but I didn't come away with a feeling that solar is pulling its weight on keeping the grid healthy from a maintenance standpoint (solar mostly still requires the grid). Any possibile details on how the extra energy produced and pumped back in the grid may offset grid maintenance by "saving" the utility from having to create that energy in the first place?

It’s the new world, where everything you do to better yourself or your situation is viewed as an attack on others

I live in Ontario, Canada, in an area serviced by Hydro One. For most people using Hydro One about 50% of the bill is “delivery fees”. For cottagers it’s often higher, and even if the cottage isn’t used during winter months you’ll be billed “delivery fees” for… no delivered electricity. $50 a month just for having the line there whether it’s used or not.

@Digikidthevoiceofreason

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. Also live in Ontario and it’s incredibly stupid they do that.

@offgridwanabe

11 ай бұрын

Yes and if you have solar net metering they do not credit you with delivery fees on your produced electricity even if it only goes next door they benefit from the cheaply bought power.

@AlRoderick

11 ай бұрын

If they called that $50 a month, your share of the power grid insurance you might think of it differently. Running lines out to rural areas, especially isolated places that people like to build their cabins and cottages is inherently expensive for the number of customers it serves, and while you might not be there consuming electricity in the winter, winter might be there knocking your power line down and they've got to be able to repair it because not everybody is a seasonal user. If you don't cover the inherent cost of providing power to your cottage then you're effectively asking other power customers to subsidize your seasonal home.

@offgridwanabe

11 ай бұрын

@@AlRoderick What you are saying would be true if Hydro was strictly a business but they have been subsidized by our government for many years so their initial investment was our tax money. Still maintenance of lines in the country is very expensive and they now have a new model for payment for low density customers more expensive for sure.

My utility company is now starting to control thermostats and is charging more for peak use times. A lot of these peak rates coincide with when air conditioners kick on. I am still at a loss of why solar is not encouraged and then tied to thermostats to cool during those peak times (that largely match with peak solar production times)

@wesleybrehm9386

11 ай бұрын

Because it isn't about doing what is smart or right. It's about doing what's most profitable for the monopoly energy company. Follow the money, and you'll find your answer every time.

@rodmunch69

11 ай бұрын

So what happened was people took free 'SMART' thermostats from the power company without bother to read why it's 'FREE'. If people are dumb enough to fall for that, then screw them.

@Innovate2renovate

11 ай бұрын

@Rod Munch unfortunately they do it even if you did not get the free thermostat from them.

@Jacob-W-5570

11 ай бұрын

how??? someone is breakign into your house to turn the nob of the thermostat, how would they even be able to do that?????

@rodmunch69

11 ай бұрын

@@Innovate2renovate no, they do not, there is literally NO way for them to do that unless YOU link your thermostat to the electric company. Literally, there is no other way.

I am not well versed on this but I agree with your point about keeping solar prosumers on grid. In places with shitty grids- looking at you ERCOT- renewables can be a lifeline and perform under difficult conditions and promote grid resiliency. During the 2021 TX blackouts our coal piles and natural gas wellheads froze and we were minutes away from total grid collapse. There was initially blame-shifting towards wind energy (not the main energy source on ERCOT's grid btw). But it actually outperformed expectations even in the inclement weather. As another commenter pointed out- solar production (including production from prosumers) could be paired with peak demand during the heat of the day/max sunshine. In non-resilient grid systems, increased demand for cooling can crash the entire system. Brownouts/rolling blackouts can become complete system failure leading to hundreds or even thousands of deaths. Perhaps widespread solar adoption could meet some of that demand and reduce the risk of grid failure.

Excellent video. Video is full of information as usual. Thank you for all of your hard work in gathering this information.

Yea, it's bs. Here, the local utility monopoly doesn't pay you for excess solar any more, and instead gives you energy credits that expire worthless at the end of the year. So, any extra panels on a house are 100% wasted. There are rich people here who would gladly set up massive arrays, even with reasonable cost shifting adjustments, to improve the greeness of the community. But, now that they get literally zero payback on extra panels, no one installs any extra.

Through the 1970's, we had fair pricing for homes and businesses, then Reagan began a program to allow businesses to negotiate their tariffs and choose their own provider, which meant they got huge discounts, which the power company then offset by huge increases in consumer rates. That is where the problem lies.

@danilooliveira6580

11 ай бұрын

privatizing basic necessities is a crime.

@waqasahmed939

11 ай бұрын

You need "regulatory capture" tbh. We do have a fully privatised energy market in the UK. It absolutely has issues though Ofgem (the regulator) help quite a bit. Our water being privatised and our trains being privatised is something that is ridiculously stupid given you don't get a choice in your provider . They're natural monopolies that the state should really operate instead because there is no way they can truly compete. It just means that profits go abroad and not reinvested. It also means that water companies dump sewage without ramification. If it was publicly owned, then that'd affect the government quite seriously.

@grimaffiliations3671

11 ай бұрын

@@waqasahmed939 yup, no coincidence all the best run strain systems are government run

I would also add this about net metering. In many markets, the offset they pay you isn't worth it. If you are going to buy solar, you are better off doing export limit and consume every kilowatt you produce and not put it back on to the grid. For example, where I live, they would give me a $.0898 credit for every KW I put on the grid, but under my tiered structure, in the high consumption months, I am paying $.15 per KW (yes, my power is cheap and that is one reason solar doesn't work for me). If I were to consume that electricity directly using export limiting, then I would be knocking $.15 off of my bill for every kilowatt saved, other than just clawing back $.0898 per kilowatt. The energy company makes $.05 off of my kilowatt and sells it to someone else for $.15. Most people don't even know what export limiting is, but if your system can do it, you may be better off setting up your system to do export limiting and use as much of the KW that you produce as possible. Net metering is not a good deal for most people. As per my previous post below though, if you crunch the numbers and look at the big picture, it is better to invest the money than it is to spend it on solar for the home. Let the big energy companies spend your investment on new green energy or nuclear power for the grid. Use your dividends and growth to lower your electric bill. When you look at your total gain (interest and share price growth vs solar system cost, financing and maintenance), you my find that investing the money is a far better use of it than buying a solar panel setup, though if you live in the SRE network (and I own stock in Sempra so you are my customer) power is very expensive, but once again, SRE stock went from about $28 a share 10 years ago to $148 a share today. Imagine if you had bought $10K worth of SRE 10 years ago. The reality is that electric prices are going up and the price of utility stocks will go up with them, and they will need that money to convert as much of their energy production as possible to renewable energy. If you are a Sempra, Duke, or GA power customer, I am making money off of you and you need me because when the sun doesn't shine, my wires bring you electricity. I don't mean that in an ugly way. I mean that you still need the grid, and as long as everyone needs it, everyone benefits when companies invest in upping their renewable or nuclear energy production, and they do this with stocks and bonds. I chose to invest in those companies because (a) it was a better financial decision for me personally, and (b) because these companies are vital to the future of the economy. In Texas, we can barely produce enough electricity to get everyone through a hot day. If the grid can't keep growing enough to meet demand, the economy of the state will be severely impacted.

Thank you for shedding light on this! Tobaco/food industry strategy all over again... Spread the confusion

I'm personally looking forward to more modular, "plug and play" solutions so they can be set up in many different setups.

@kalvindeane1

11 ай бұрын

Enphase are almost plug and play. Agreed that it's good to see renewables and storage getting more accessible over time.

@JamesOliverLindsey

11 ай бұрын

I just got a kit from solar wholesale. Fairly plug and play imo.

@TyLamb

11 ай бұрын

With this in mind, why doesn't anyone product a flexible solar panel that is the standard width of standing seam roofs and then sale clips that hold down the panels directly on the roof. This would be dirt cheap to install if you have that type of roof and then easy to take with you when you move. Something a renter could justify.

@trevorphillips9220

11 ай бұрын

In Germany there is currently a hype for balcony power stations, with 600 (prob. 800W soon) Watts max. You can even buy them in big discounters. Just plug them into a normal power outlet, register at your power grid provider and you can compensate your homes idle power at least. That pays of quickly.

I proposed a new program to the premier's office here in Ontario, Canada. Here there is a credit ($300-400) labelled as a carbon tax credit that's given to residents annually, partially based on income. I suggested a program where at tax filing time someone can opt to get a solar panel instead of a cash credit. Why? The government has massive buying power and can obtain panels in bulk at way lower prices than retail. A low income individual could grow their system 1 or 2 panels at a time each year. This wouldn't cost the government more since they're crediting you cash anyway, and you could get panels at half price versus retail. I never even heard back from them 🤣

Essential services must be public services. Businesses worry about profit so they can pay investors. Public utilities worry about efficiencies so they can reduce costs to taxpayers.

@aredesuyo

11 ай бұрын

Immigrants from the Soviet Union are laughing at you.

@dionh70

11 ай бұрын

Essential utilities should be operated as non-profits, rather than as for-profit enterprises, especially because most utilities are monopolies and are thus inherently unfair to consumers.

@Br3ttM

11 ай бұрын

Food and clothing are essential, but we don't seize farms and nationalize them. The USSR and China both tried that, and both killed tens of millions of people.

I find it interesting to see this new definition for prosumer. For a long time I've seen it used to define a crossover between consumers and processionals. The is especially true in higher grade products that are used by both distinguishing consumers who want a better build quantity or feature set and by more budget oriented professionals who want professional features but not break the bank.

@michaelblacktree

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, that confused me as well.

@Lumencraft-

11 ай бұрын

Ya Prosumer is the words Professional and Consumer compound.

@msytdc1577

11 ай бұрын

Producer/Consumer = Prosumer in this context. People who are both wholesale rates energy providers and retail rates energy consumers.

@randallsparks4030

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, "prosumer" as professional/consumer is broadly well established. And someone like Matt F. could be considered a prosumer in this sense in the energy tech context. (His so-cool new house is a prosumer version of energy efficient homes, much as a prosumer camera in photography.) A bit unfortunate not to be using a distinct term like "prodsumer" here.

Here in norway, where abundant hydroelectric has meant we've historically had very low electricity prices, the basic assumption is that you pay "nettleie", rent for use of the grid, seperately from the actual used electricity. This winter, where we had the highest electricity prices ever, by a very large margin, was the first time my electricity consumption cost more than the access to the grid. Now of course, this penalizes those with low net consumption, as the flat rate rent is the same as for those with very high consumption, which feels inequitable as well, but you can't eat the rich by penalizing high or low net electricity consumption, when the rich will be occupying both categories.

you should discuss the duck curve. I think incentivizing solar+energy storage. I just installed a 10kW (PV +powerwall)

As a roof top solar owner 6.5kw since 2015 .was a very enlightening article. I had thought this was not a big problem for the people without solar but more of a hit on the stock holders. I am surprised they don’t want to put a tax on led bulbs because they save the consumer money.

Grid utilities over time, will need to become more about moving energy around, and time sharing energy then producing it. This could mean making use of battery farms, where every house in the village has a solar panel, and excess power is fed to the grid, where they can either move it to somewhere else, or store it for later use. What we really need to develop is the ability to create solar in the summer then store that for use in the winter.

@animefreak5757

11 ай бұрын

that's a interesting thought. I could see them shifting to energy storage more than production down the road (once we figure out economical energy storage that is). It's probably never going to be complete though, since things like solar need more than just days or weeks worth of stored energy, they might need a year or more (solar production sucks in the winter, so you either need several times your average capacity, or the ability to store excess from summer all the way through winter)

@SeattlePioneer

11 ай бұрын

Yep. That's what you need. And that's what you don't have. That's the nature of having an unreliable electricity supply ---it forces utilities to build another electrical generating system ---but who is going to pay for THAT?

@JNArnold

11 ай бұрын

@@SeattlePioneer They are. They want to have a monopoly on energy distribution, they can foot the bill for keeping that infrastructure viable. They don't want the competition but they also don't want to pay to stay relevant. You can't have it both ways. Things change and the utility companies need to change to keep up or risk losing their monopoly and profits.

@SeattlePioneer

11 ай бұрын

@@JNArnold There is an easy way to avoid being a solar power racketeer, using political power to take from your neighbors. And it's EASY! Just cut the grid tie.

@paulschmidt7473

10 ай бұрын

@@SeattlePioneer I expect that Hydrogen will be part of the answer, during times when your batteries are full, and your using half what you generate, a hydrogen generator will extract the H2, and shove it into a tank, in Winter when your generating less then it takes to charge your phone, your feeding that Hydrogen through a fuel cell.

I love your language - you hit the nail on the head when you said " Turning off the lights and getting more efficient appliances will also reduce your electric bill" is this increasing my neighbors electric bill?AWESOME ! ! !

Thanks for covering this. It is a topic I have been curious about for a while. Your coverage has reinforced my view that PUCs are the problem, and the source of much of the anti-solar propaganda. Here in western SD we are required to connect to BH Energy. But our friends and neighbors just a few miles away are connected to a coop. Their bills are much lower and decisions on how to spread out fixed coast are much more focused on protecting lower income consumers while still accommodating prosumers more fairly. There is a better alterative model to the big corporate utilities.

Although we have a very different set of regulations and a different culture, it is very interesting that I've never seen this argument here in Australia where Solar ownership is in some ways actively encouraged amongst energy retailers.

@medea27

11 ай бұрын

It's because we have regulations on utility providers & consumer protection laws in Australia... the issue in the States is that there is so little government oversight in privatised industries (and every state does things their own way!) that the corporations have virtual carte blanche to do what they like. We also have protections like transparency around pricing and a culture of communally-funded infrastructure, so this "cost-shifting" narrative just wouldn't fly here.

@phillipmills474

11 ай бұрын

that is because we are getting screwed over with the feed in tariffs, getting as little as 2-5c/kw and getting charged 20-50c/kw plus $1.00-1.60 per day access charge, they make more money paying us for solar than buying it off the powerstations

@spazoq

11 ай бұрын

Power costs have gone up 75% in 10 years in Australia. All this "green energy" isn't lowering anything accept the money in your wallet.

This reminds me of the fixed fee I was paying for gas service before I went all electric. Fee was based partially on consumption so it was higher in months when you used more gas but it averaged about $15 a month. Ditching gas and having them cap the line and take out the meter means I'm not paying for something I no longer use but I'm sure their finance folks are mad they can't charge me for living in an area where most of my neighbors have gas. If they had their way they'd be charging everyone for it. Something they'll need to figure out sooner than later though is as more people move away from gas, they'll have to decide when it's more affordable to simply stop delivering it to an area as a whole, even if that means paying some incentives to move people off those gas lines so they can decommission them rather than continue to pay for upkeep on lines that aren't serving enough customers to pay for that upkeep. Especially in areas where the lines are already in need of being replaced. Why spend millions/billions on replacing gas lines that will likely be retired well before the end of their usable lifespan. Unlike natural gas lines though, there isn't much of a risk of the electric utility lines in areas being unused, as much of it can be used just for shifting loads between neighbors who may be using more power than they generate while someone else nearby is generating more than they use. As the loads in neighborhoods drop the wear and tear on the transformers will also drop and they may even need smaller substations to handle those areas. Adding storage to those sub stations could also allow them to capture excess production and further reduce the need for peaker plants.

Co-Op Electric in southern Missouri, I pay $29 minimum bill (cost to have a meter per month) 1:1 credits for generation in the current month, bill credits for cost avoidance for the COOP for over generation. Works out to be about 4:1 (I generate 4KWH to be credited for about cost of 1KWH. I'm also told my co-op will not approve an oversized system that would generate way more then my annual usage.

Net metering that includes the distribution charge is ABSOLUTELY a subsidy that SOMEONE is paying to those PV owners. There may be an overall benefit to society, but someone is paying for that incentive or subsidy.

Even if cost shifting WERE real, i'm not convinced that I should care as a solar user.

@shawnr771

11 ай бұрын

Just think what will happen when battery backup becomes more affordable. People not attached to the grid will be blamed for the grids problems.

Now imagine when battery storage becomes cheaper. Electric utility companies are becoming worthless

@alfredoplayer73

11 ай бұрын

That's what they're scared of 🤣

@SeattlePioneer

11 ай бұрын

Now imagine a world where the sun shines 24/7, so that solar power is a practical form of electrical energy supply.

@johnp5250

11 ай бұрын

@@SeattlePioneer The wind blows The sun will shine The batteries are getting cheaper And you don't have to be connected to the grid if you have either with enough storage for yourself

@SeattlePioneer

11 ай бұрын

@@johnp5250 I'm all in favor of solar that is not grid tied. The grid tie allows the politically powerful and wealthy to cut a profitable deal for themselves at the expense of everyone else. And by being so profitable, it causes wasteful amounts of solar to be constructed, power which utilities must then buy and are forced to waste as heat because they can't use it. It's actually amusing to see environmentalists and renewable power advocates acting like greedy utility companies themselves!

@eDoc2020

11 ай бұрын

Renewables and battery storage make the grid more relevant. It's the _generation_ companies which are threatened.

Excellent points made about the efficiency boost. Never thought about it before.

$10 a month connection fee, I wish! In Sydney Australia I’m paying 93 cents a day connection fee and I’m generating up to 3 times more solar than purchased from the grid. Because we produce so much solar electricity in summer we carry credits through winter to almost a break even scenario for the year but, think about this, my electricity provider has a feed in Tarif of 13 cents/kWh but charges that same electricity at 28 cents/kWh with minimal cost to them! I still pay my fair share so the only cost shift I see is in favour of the electricity companies. When we first installed our solar some 5 years ago our feed in Tarif was 22 cents/kWh. Electricity companies cry poor but I notice in their annual report they are still making hundreds of million dollars profit. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone discovered that electricity companies started the whole cost shift argument to try and put pressure on home renewables.

Super informative. Your solar reviews helped me decide to get solar a few years ago. Keep up the good work!