How about being led by the Holy Spirit?

@mance02

5 ай бұрын

THEE most important part.

@normandy2501

5 ай бұрын

Call it freedom jazz then, and don't get mad when somebody breaks out the progressive metal licks lol. I'd be led by the Holy Spirit to show up with an 8 string guitar playing time signatories you'd need to do mental arithmetic to throw your wigs too.

@Smokosfunktime

5 ай бұрын

#truth

@raamyasharahla535

5 ай бұрын

Lol the word isn’t being taught in Sunworship 🫵🏽

@sophiascott9305

4 ай бұрын

That part

Church music in general has become weak due to the lack of biblical truth being taught from the pulpit. Songwriters used to have a bible beside them when writing, but now it's what will fit this groove I came up with. Preachers no longer spend hours in prayer and bible study preparing sermons, but now it's what controversial stuff I can say that will bring likes on social media. Weakness in the pulpit = weakness in the music.

@LANELIFEburgundy

5 ай бұрын

THERE IT IS!!!!!!! Preacher can't preach if the mic don't work. Folk can't shout if the drummer can't keep the beat. Y'all PLAY'N Church!!!!!!!

@vashtikelly6837

4 ай бұрын

or pimping in the pulpit is worse....

@shenequakimbro5146

3 ай бұрын

I do spoken word and definitely use God's word when I'm preparing as if it is a preached word. We are living in a sin sick world and definitely looking to touch the hearts of ppl. I'm used to not being popular so....

@nowitstime1

13 күн бұрын

That’s why I left. It became about man worship. The word was being taught through distorted filters. People have started deifying men and believing this is serving God. Couldn’t do it anymore.

As a musician, I love shouting music. But I also love the fact that my church can go multiple services without a shout/bump and still feel like I’ve gotten what I needed in those services: The Presence of God, and His Word for us🙏🏾

@tiffanymcdaniels5652

4 ай бұрын

Mines too! It all depends on what church you go to as well.

@KingD-light

3 ай бұрын

Shouting music is fine and don't need to be taken out, but you should be able to rejoice and dance without the music if you're praise is real.

Shout music is not the problem. Recording it for social media sites is the problem. Some things which happens in church should stay in the church.

@jamesbuchanan7099

2 ай бұрын

Like pedophilia? What’s going on that needs to be hidden? This is foolery.

There's a stereo type of churches that do it routinely without fail but there's also the churches who sincerely do it and not necessarily every service or every Sunday. I feel that when it's real it's a glorious and beautiful thing.

@GeeQue03

5 ай бұрын

I wholeheartedly agree with this

@maxlove3500

4 ай бұрын

Music shouldn't make you shout. The Holy Spirit should, i don't want to just shot to the music. Im connected to the move of the Holy Ghost. Reaching out to God, but ive seen where music has been used in that way. Let's be real in God, sincerely worshiping God! Love and peace ❤

@hogscattle7877

4 ай бұрын

@@maxlove3500 Thank you. I couldn’t have said it better! ❤️🙏🏿

@RSVPKELS

4 ай бұрын

Facts, my church doesn’t always do it and sometimes can go for a while without it but every once in a while it happens and when it happens it’s amazing because it’s authentic.

@tiffanymcdaniels5652

4 ай бұрын

Indeed!!

Hey there, Terrence. As usual, good stuff and I agree with 90% of it, but I'm going to have to push back a little bit (and I apologize for the length). I've been in church music for nearly forty-seven years, but I also teach Black gospel music history and performance at a major university, and I wrote an article on the ring shout for an anthology called "Scores for Social Choreography." Whereas I do agree with you about discerning what has become the bastardization of shout music (now called "bumps") and its misuse by pastors and worship leaders to make people feel good, I think it's important to consider the history of the shout in Black church culture and its liberating role in Black sacred joy. Prior to the slave trade, West African Griot priests led their communities in song and dance for various events like births, deaths, weddings, etc. Early White explorers observed that song and dance were nearly inextricable. As enslaved people were brought to the colonies and were subjected to a forced "Americanization," the ring shout was maintained and practiced mainly in secret in brush arbors. Music and dance were still always performed together. After the Reconstruction Era, the Great Migration saw 20th century Black Baptist and Methodist churches emerge in cities like Chicago and the majority of songs they sang were directly from Eurocentric hymnals. Other transplants from the south brought their southern and African-influenced customs with them including food, oral history, and religious practice. The shout was initially rejected by established churches in urban areas because it was seen as unsophisticated, heathenish, and a reminder of the degradation of slavery only a generation before. These children of enslaved people, now ousted from the Baptist and Methodist churches, started forming storefront churches to support the more spirited sacred expression that was familiar to them. A young Mahalia Jackson (originally from New Orleans) was once reprimanded by a Baptist pastor at a church in Chicago because she was too "emotional" and shouted when she sang. She clapped back at him in the middle of the service and quoted nearly all of Psalm 150 before telling him that her praise was authentic. Even one of the earliest presidents of the HBCU Wilberforce University, Daniel Payne, had enormous disdain for the shout. The McIntosh Shouters are a family from the Gullah people of South Carolina who still practice the ring shout that's most closely related to the original form. The shout has undergone many iterations since arriving to the colonies (some good and some not so good), but the original practice for the shout in the United States pointed toward an expression of joy and a hope for liberation, and not for showmanship or an emotional fix. The shout was an authentic external expression of internal joy. Over the years, flawed theology has been attached to the shout and has denigrated it as sacred practice. I've seen a lot and played piano and organ in literally thousands of church services in every denomination, so I always want to be careful not to paint every church and practice with a broad brush. I am indeed "old school" and prefer not to perform all the choreographed music that worship bands do today, but I will give you a good accompaniment to dance to. Peace and blessings!

@KirklandWilliamsWorkout3000

5 ай бұрын

🔥

@ToneA2653

5 ай бұрын

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾Well stated and balanced.

@briannzuwah9455

5 ай бұрын

Agreed… because one apple is tainted on a tree, does not mean you burn the whole tree. We can correct with out destroying 😊

@jasonsims3346

5 ай бұрын

Well said sir!!!

@characteristicgaming99

5 ай бұрын

Now, this is how you disagree and support your claims.

Bro Terrance - let's admit it... its all about ego, clout and going viral. This is not about the spirit moving but about our emotions moving. I love the fact you were brave enough to bring this subject forward. Thank you!

Ohhhhh the call outs on the musicians starting at 3:12 ouf! I felt those in my spirit. I'm guilty of literally all of them. And the crazy thing is, I hated seeing musicians doing those in the past, but through interaction, I now find myself executing those same bad habits. There's this stigma in my circles that if you're not capable of riffing and running around, you're no good as a musician. That's just unnecessary pressure. Can't I just sincerely worship the Lord on my instrument, inspire the team and congregation to do the same, collect my check for my services then leave in peace please? Anyhow, thank you for this video Terrence. It's been highly insightful and well thought out as always! I've been watching without subscribing for a good while now but what you share is worth being notified about. God bless your ministry!

@timothyypearson

5 ай бұрын

They don't ask if the spirit hit the spirit is in control I'm a drummer when spirit leads that's who's in charge leave it alone sir I passed in 06 and what I heard up in heaven was shout music

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

I'm an older man and also an accomplished musician but the stuff I hear today, I can't play that stuff nor am I even interested in learning how, that hip hop junk that's crept into the church is not my cup of tea. It does nothing but tickle the emotions but doesn't incite worship. I've been told that I'm gonna get left behind (musically) because I'm not playing that new style music. So I've left the Black church for good and have joined in with the spirit filled Presbyterian Church who know how to worship. Pentecostals don't have monopoly on the Holy Spirit. God is moving by His Spirit in the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches too. You don't need that shout music to praise and worship God.

@chrislaw4455

5 ай бұрын

MUSIC IS EITHER A GIFT FROM GOD OR IT IS LEARNED BY KZread OR A PERSONAL INSTRUCTOR. IT IS AN ADDITION TO THE CHURCH. EVERYBODY SUPPOSE TO BEING GOING TO CHURCH TO HEAR AND THEN OBEY THE WORD OF GOD WHICH IS THE MAIN THING. IT IS UP TO THE PASTOR OF ANY CHURCH TO DETERMINE WHO HE WANTS TO BE HIS MUSICIAN AND WHICH TYPE OR STYLE OF MUSIC THE PASTOR WANTS PLAYED IN HIS CHURCH BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE PASTOR IS IN CHARGE OF THE CHURCH BUILDING, BUT GOD IS SUPPOSE TO BE ORCHESTRATING THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST/SPIRIT.🤔🤔🤔🤨🤨🤨😊😊😊🙏🙏🙏🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

I could make the same argument about a lot of things churches do not just shouting music. I think the main problem it people aren’t being taught or helped enough anymore like you said…its just an emotional response. As a church musician I definitely feel church has gotten more of like a show or concert. I think social media plays a part in that aspect

@hightolerance2500

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely. If your church's social media page doesn't capture a praise break, it's not popping

@HeavyChordz

5 ай бұрын

i agree 100% on the impact of social media on today’s church musicians

@moniesincere5083

5 ай бұрын

Yes social media plays a HUGE part in this!!!

What can I say, you hit it on the nail head. When my husband became a pastor, he was concerned because it was quiet. I told him they are hearing a well-prepared word from God and they are not used to it. In essence.... they are listening!

Man! If I could like this video 100times I would! This was so on point, it truly resonated with me. Tbh, just by the title I was getting ready to fight you bro😂 I think it is because as musicians who grew up playing in church, we associate "church" or "church music" in particular, to who we are. Our identity as a church musician, so often is tied to the type of music we play, how well we play it, how others perceive our skills and if they approve and or praise us for it...and that's wild! It's no longer about ministry, its more about me, my talent and how "high" I can stir up the church's emotions. And as you mentioned, we judge the level of the anointing and the move of God within the service by how emotionally hyped up we can cause people to get. Meanwhile, the church goes home empty, with no word to sustain and guide them, waiting for next Sunday's next high. Man O' man! I have so much more to say on this topic, but you nailed it bro! I'm glad I decided to listen to you first and see where we agree before I started to go on the defence and turns out, I completely agree with you.

@eisbeinGermany

5 ай бұрын

this is why i love the church I attend, no Hillsong or Bethal music gets sung,

@bobbyhendrix8536

5 ай бұрын

I agree 👍 wholeheartedly with everything you said!! I hope everyone will read ur comment as I've had, it tells a lot if discernment n reverence for Gid❤😮!!

@Micah88

5 ай бұрын

@@bobbyhendrix8536 Amen! All praise and honor is due unto God. 😊🕊🙏🏾

@userjoeclassicseze

5 ай бұрын

Yes that is when the song is done in the flesh . But with the direction of The Holy Spirit who iis the director of the church comes in and the musicians are saved,They also pray , live a holy life study the word of God with deep meditation and understanding on what God does when we praise from our Hearts yes!!! lives can never be the same people will come to church and transformed to be more like Jesus moreover burdens shall be lifted also sinners will be saved no matter the pattern of music played it could be fast or slow any style as far as it is under the Influence of The Spirit of God and the people and musician have a knowledge of God's word and believe in it as he did in the Bible days He is God He never changes He will do it again definitely It's gonna be God's mighty doing great things

@eisbeinGermany

5 ай бұрын

@@userjoeclassicseze wow 😲😳 just love your explanation and more I can't agree about if things are done in the flesh and for self glory or done to praise God,my father was for 30 years the song leader as it was called back in the 1960/70/80 He would on a Saturday afternoon or very early Sunday morning go and first pray before starting to go through the song book, he always believed on singing a hymn before the pastor would start preaching, so many Sundays when the pastor stood up to preach he would say he can't preach this morning due to that the Holy spirit moves so much he will be doing a injustice to Holy spirit to preach now, as when my father gave the opportunity for the congregation to give testimonies 5/6/7 would stand up and give testimonies or people would read out of the Bible or speak in tongues,, this took long to do and why the pastor would say what he said,this is why I never lost my passion for Christ and God, I'm so lucky to be in a church where the praise and worship team are so spirit filled couple, Sunday for Sunday the Holy spirit moves,and also so many Sundays when the pastor stood up to preach he would say that the hymn we sang is his sermons title,

Sir, a friend of mine shared this video with me. It warms my heart to hear a church musician FINALLY speak out and just tell the truth. The vast majority of what we see practiced in these churches today are unbiblical and entertainment driven. The moment a pastor just stands flat footed and exposits the text of scripture, the goats don't get their fix. I'm tired of church being catered to goats. SHEEP need sheep food. Feed the sheep pastors, feed the SHEEP.

@RaiderClarke312

5 ай бұрын

Word....

@bbman4

5 ай бұрын

This just preached!🙌🏽🔥

@jamesprice6381

5 ай бұрын

Then DO something @ it.............raise your voice ..do spiritual warfare..take action.........almost 30 years in praise teams, the bad stuff wil NEVER fully go away....i assure you..

@lexington4

5 ай бұрын

I get what he’s trying to say but his analysis is not complete. He offered no solutions to fix the perceived issues. Just banning shouting music is intellectually and spiritually lazy. Really? How about running a music conference to teach on how musicians can effectively worship the Triune GOD with their gifts through their music to bless the congregation. Or some other solution. He should Present both sides in the examination Has shouting music gotten out of hand? That depends on the particular church. There is some nonsensical things that go on during shouting or praise breaks. There is some truth to this. But argue not to throw the baby out with the bath water lol. One can use the same arguments at the club, sporting event, or a concert. People attend these things and get emotional highs and some go back home to their abusive relationships, unpaid bills, bad friendships. He didn’t touch on the fact that many musicians who play in church don’t know the role music and praise play in a true worship service. There are many church musicians who also play in secular arenas and for secular artists. Their attitude towards worship music is not in the right place. There are some musicians who don’t have robust prayer lives. And then you have musicians who view church as just another “gig.” All these things affect their music playing and as a result it overflows into the congregation and have negative effects on the attendees. There are some people who don’t know what they want these days. Many people are emotionally driven. I’m waiting for some person to say ban all music of any kind in church so people can sit in church like they’re sitting in a library. Lol

@Seeker_of_Progress

5 ай бұрын

Completely agree ​@@lexington4

Bro! You nailed it! Evrything you said is 100% true. I grew up as a church musician and was the Pastor of Worship and Arts for 10 years. This same epiphany hit me 3 years ago. Once I became aware of what we were doing, I resigned and have not been back since.

I agree 100%! it is a gong show! It amazes me how many church musicians don't know the hymns of the church or can't play from a hymn book! but shout-music or bump often not provoked by the moving of the holy spirit, but just another fad in the program to get crunk. You know the club scene type setting. I grew-up where a Deacon would raise his voice with a jubilee or as my grandmother called them an ole meters, and that song would pass from one to the next and my God what a mess it would start those Saint would start talking to God like it was their last time. Lord and the way my Great-Grandfather (a lil man with a Huge voice) would call on God! I promise you the angles and God Himself paused to listen... chilling my soul still to this day! That was shout music....

@timothyypearson

5 ай бұрын

Because holiness if you not without Methodist and Baptist dont do it

@gregorywilliams744

5 ай бұрын

Not the gong show 😅

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

@@timothyypearson The Pentecostal church has no monopoly on holiness. That is NOT a denomination but a lifestyle and it doesn't mean black suits and neckties nor women wearing long sleeves and collars up to their necks and hemlines down to the floor and going without makeup, shiny faces and that crack and bun on your head. It just makes a woman look dowdy. Nothing wrong with a woman looking attractive without those caterpillar lashes and con dresses you don't dress sexy for church.

@WilliamsPinch

5 ай бұрын

A church doesn’t need a hymn book to honor God with music and praise.

There is a lot here, brother! You touched on a wide range of issues and dropped some thought provoking nuggets. I would love to see you dig deeper on this subject. ✊🏾💯

I've felt this way for some time but could never figure out how to articulate it quite like you have. Thank you. It's so strange to think that sacred music could become a vehicle for someone's overblown ego

I usually agree, but for the African descendants it has great cultural meaning. For the believer it has a spiritual meaning. David should have loved a b3 when he danced the glory I to the kingdom

You’re on it today my man. Shout music is entertainment oriented which is the agenda of many churches. It covers up any real teaching of the Word of God that will empower people to go out and deal with what they’re facing. That’s why, like you said, church attendance has dropped like winter temperatures.

I disagree with getting rid of "shout music." Most people lack teaching & understanding of dancing & praising God. Just because you have bad tares amoung the wheat doesn't mean separate things.

@bowlegit2

5 ай бұрын

So who teaches dance for shout music?

@holdfast6882

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely @raycovington…dude sound Krazy as hell!!!

@cane03

5 ай бұрын

Shout music is foolishness.. It’s emotionalism in its highest form. It assists with folks loosing self control in which the Holy Spirit is supposed to provide. Something is off!! Get rid of this mess!!

@amarie1852

5 ай бұрын

@@cane03you sound very ridiculous.

@opinionatorX

5 ай бұрын

This display is problematic in many ways like, its not an indication of your faith or discipline in Jesus, its more of a church tradition than really being moved by the spirit, you don't find this display in the bible, its controlled by the pastor, it can be a distraction, and its centered in sensationalism. What should be more important is, are we growing in Jesus? Many can do this dancing stuff and some even seem to speak in tongues, but how are you really living when you are not in that environment? Are we living in obedience, and maturing each step of the way? We need to make sure we check all those important makers first before we go off into a pointless dance. I pray you think biblically on the matter and not with emotion. And if you can find scriptures you feel the bible supports your position please post.

You make some valid points. I do think that musicians view playing a bump as a threshold on if a person can really play or not. Congregational songs and hymns are FAR more important (to me at least). Also, i do have an issue with preachers (even the MC of a program) who literally try to instigate a praise break every chance they get. It gets to a point where it feels FORCED. Sometimes it be the musicians who do it as well and sometimes it can take the spirit right out of the service based on how forced it feels. However, i do believe there is a time and place for shout music such as when the atmosphere is set and God is moving. For instance example, you’re not gonna start a jump during a warfare moment, or a worship 3-4 5-6 7-1-3-4 moment. It’s more of an instinct of when the atmosphere shifts from “worship” to “praise” and musicians have to know the difference. Such as during a “high praise” or house raising CHURCHY dominant chord moments (EX: 3-4-UP-5 **cymbals**). In moments like that the band should be ready to start a bump, not too soon or not too late or it’ll be awkward. It has to be a goldilocks moment.

@frederickweeksjr.1189

5 ай бұрын

Brother, you may mean an atmosphere shift from praise to WORSHIP.......anyone can praise ( Psalm 150) few understand WORSHIP.....which is why the Lord seeks worship and worshippers....John 7:23-24.

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

I can discern when the Holy Spirit is inciting people into praise but I also know when it's contrived when there's nothing there. I've watched enough You Tube and television to recognize when it's nothing more than noisy clanging cymbals because no one is moving out of their seats into praise but just standing and looking on. Maybe one or two are out in the aisle dancing.

@braxtonjackson_

5 ай бұрын

@@Ma1nguy Me personally, I wait for the pastors permission to start my click track. If he gives us that look to go then i start it. My only exception would be if the whole church starts dancing BEFORE the click track.

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

@@braxtonjackson_ I used to play in a Black Pentecostal church but the tempo was much too fast which I found to be ridiculous and it incited wild spirits. I'm a formally trained pianist and I'm not ruining my fingers and touch playing that fast junk often I'd look at a young brother chomping at the bit to play and I'd just slide over and turn him loose. I'm done playing for the night.

Shouting music will never be ban.

If people are being hurt and or embarrassed during this exchange it's because they were playing...the Holy Spirit will not hurt you! I agree with the emotional high to manipulate the offering has to be stopped. If manipulation is not the case, offering would be collected at the beginning of service, not after I'm called to remember and feel.

Bro, I’m glad you said this! Sometimes it is an emotional high! As a church musician I couldn’t stand having to play shout music at one point and time. I refused to learn it because I felt it was too tough at first, as I’ve grown as a musician, I don’t mind playing it. While it is fun to play, it can be intimidating and a flex to some musicians. I agree and love that you said there are so many dynamics to being a musician than shout music that honestly get overlooked at times. We should be able to flow with Holy Spirit, allow His presence and glory to fill the room, and it’s not with shout music every single time. Great video bro!

I think it’s all necessary. The hymns, spirituals, praise, worship and yes even shout music. If you (generally speaking) have out grown that type of praise/worship, then move on to a ministry that suits you in that belief. However, saying it should be completely done away with or banned is a bit too extreme! Call it a emotional high or whatever… If that is what a person needs to get through or help cope with their stresses, let them have it!

@Thunderbolt_Nelson

5 ай бұрын

Right!

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

You can't live on singing and shouting. You need the Word of God above all else and a life of prayer, that's how you deal with stress. Some of our stresses are of our own making.

@denittabrown46

4 ай бұрын

@@Ma1nguyLet’s be 💯 churches that don’t shout and the word is taught calmly still have the same amount of ppl sinning and ain’t living nothing as the shouting and dancing churches.

@tiffanymcdaniels5652

4 ай бұрын

100% agree!

@shenequakimbro5146

3 ай бұрын

I've been through too much not to have that music because sometimes it's a release that I cannot get anywhere else

Don’t agree with the content on this one, but appreciate your Perspective 🙏🏿

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

Well if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong

@zoflowsharkey

5 ай бұрын

Go study the scripture and I’ll guarantee you that you’ll see this content lines up with scripture

@moniesincere5083

5 ай бұрын

@corneliusw you struggle with seeing it bc it doesn't affirm you.

@francineharris9473

4 ай бұрын

@@Ma1nguyPeople don't praise God the way that they use to since they've been educated. The problem is most people focus only on the shouting and not the word but God can use a song or a testimony and we can't place God in a box. . Moreover, preachers are now mostly motivational speakers and most people don't know the difference. . I don't need shouting music to praise God but if the muscians are anointed it does make a difference because where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty . . No one will ever stop my praise if God falls on me because you may not think that it's important but the time that we're living now we need all every weapon that we can get. n. There're people that act the way that he stated but not everyone that praise God is like this. Moreover, the joy of the Lord is our strength, and our weapon. The problem is not the There are some people that have a heavy anointing on there lives and they sometimes need that to carry them through .Also God may have brought them through some unusual things, and they may have spent many hours with God and in his presence.The preacher is suppose to be led by the Spirit and what God desire in the service. In life there will always be problems and testing times are here and more coming. Remember David's wife Saul's daughter named Michal was angry with him because while he was bringing the Ack of God from Obed-edom house he started praising God and dancing before the Lord but some of his clothing came off while he was praising God. David told her I'll dance even more vile then this. Moreover, God cursed her womb and she never could bear children because of how she spoke against David dancing before the Lord. There are always going to be some some people are in the flesh and some could be in the Spirit, but this has nothing to do with me. He's correct about some of this no church should have it whereby everyone shout the exact same way and try to out shout each other, and can only praise God off of the music and not the word.

@KingD-light

3 ай бұрын

​​@@zoflowsharkey well read Psalms 150 says it all. I don't think we need to get rid of the music because the Bible do say praise him with the loud sound of symbols and organ and in the dance. So I disagree with what he saying Shouting music is still part of that . When one rejoices is upbeat with or without the music. So God praises us upbeat. Is there rejoice in the Lord always and again I say rejoice

The root of bad practice is bad theology. So, you nailed it when you said that the teacher's ain't teachin', but relying on emotionalism. Music ministry is a subset of the ministry of the word. That's why the psalms are in the Bible, the worship music is a means of glorifying God by the proclamation of His word. Of course there is emotion involved, but the feeling is rooted in the truth. The role of the music is to accentuate the content of the word of God that we sing. Music is co-linguistic in that it communicates in a cultural and human way the same things contained in the Word. This is ancient theology of music. Just ask Bach! Good word, my brother.

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

However there is a difference in Praise and Worship. Praise is what you do in the outer court and Worship is what happens when you moved into the Most Holy Place through the Holy Spirit where you're in such awe of God's presence that you can't do nothing but drink in His presence. The Black church has much to learn about standing still before the Great I Am. All they want to do is jump

I will say, shouting is just emotion. It doesn't mean a person is saved. That person is just emotional. Enough said.

Amen sir! Aaaaaamennn. So much showmanship and performance, not enough conversion. Mercy

I've seen this as well. Coming from the point of a preacher as well as the bass player, it's not how hard you shout, but what happens when you come down?

Good video. I'm from a Baptist sectory. We never had shout music growing up. When someone caught the holy ghost and started speaking tongue, we'd just acapella praise. I only started playing shouting music when we'd visit pentecostal church and cogic churches. Most of those churches had members that ran the streets; I knew because we went to schools together. I always felt weird playing at the COGIC churches as a kid. I later grew up to play in orchestras and opera and behind pop stars as a vocalists and producer. Sister churches have always been weird since I've been playing since 1999. Church in the last 4 years has started going back to the roots/hymns.

The music stirs emotions, but it is the anointing of the true Word that destroys the yoke

I just found you and after just two minutes I could tell I needed your channel. Your content resonates so well with me. God bless you, brutha❤️

3:41 Thanks for this comment. I am a veteran church musician. I can play in 12 keys but I dont necessarily have all the licks and runs which other keyboardist's have. I have never used the transpose button. Yes, a certain type of playing is an unspoken barometer of your abilities. I so get u. People need the WORD and PRAYER. I simply love gospel music and will continue to seek to get better but u r absolutely right about the thinking that some people have about many of our black churches. Today is the day for deep, not shallow. Shallow won't keep us in these troubled times. Some musicians are tremendous players though.

One of the best channels on the web! As a former musician....these points are part of the reason...I don't play in churches. 50 years of experience.

You right on point bro....I thought I was the only one who notice this.....some ppl only can say the holy spitit was moving in service today simply via by shout music. They move and dance claiming to be in the 'spirit' but once the music stops the 'spirit' also stops...Preachers tend to do the same thing...if they preaching & the congregation is not responding how he/she wants them to respond, shout music is usually used wether its appropriate at the time or not to get the congregation going on an emotional high. It does invoke an emotional outburst response.wether we wanna believe it or not.

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

If you have musicians onstage who have not consecrated themselves, their music can invoke wild spirits in which people get in the flesh, hurt themselves while running amuck, tearing their clothes, running over small children. The Spirit of God does not behave unseemly. How many of your musicians are really saved as most never attend Bible study or have a life of prayer because the musicians of old went before Levites and The Ark of The Covenant. Yet these same ones only make a showing for the paycheck and these mega-churches I hear really pay well.

@DaNinja60

5 ай бұрын

On the other hand the preacher who jumps and shouts out his message (if he has one) says he is filled with the spirit.

@anthonyholley2796

5 ай бұрын

I came up in the era in church where there was shouting music, worship music and praise music and it was all beautiful. The Spirit of God move through it all, from jumping to tears concerning the saints.

this is happening in latino churches as well - thanks for speaking up about the issues.

I am a pastor, and this is the 3rd video of yours that I've watch, and you have been on point my brother on all 3 videos. Thanks for sharing from a musicians' perspective. Keep up the good work.

I think one of the main problems is it's too much FLESH being glorified and not enough Spirit Led shouting. Too many times it's conjured or forced and a lot of people get their exercise for the month that's not how it should be.

I really agree with many of your points concerning shout music and the emotional response attached that can be dangerous in the church. I can agree there is a time and place as you said as well. I believe then the title should be different instead of, Why Shout Music Needs to Be Banned in Church.” In the end, the most important thing is that we as believers who serve in music ministry should just be mindful to be led by the Holy Spirit at all times. Along with your points on playing in all your keys, congregational music, hymns, and chord placement.

Interesting conversation, but before we get rid of shout music there must be a question. Can people worship Jesus/God without music? Can people just raise their hands and worship God in spirit and in truth? Does your pastor teach the Word of God, given people what the Lord has for them? I don't have a problem with shout music but what I do have a problem with is when the worship and praise team sound like a disco or Hollywood or church feels like a club atmosphere. Some people life is so harsh they may need to shout or perhaps they need deliverance. Some churches need shout music to wake people up, sad to say that.

For me, It's not genuine when one can pretty much look at the clock and know when the "shout" is coming. Also, do those who "shout" practice their dancing? Looks mighty precise and choreographed to me 😉

@kennygsmooth83

5 ай бұрын

🎯🤣🤣🤣

@moniesincere5083

5 ай бұрын

Very rehearsed!!

@Akhenaton1906

4 ай бұрын

The singing is rehearsed so why not the dancing too? Lol😊

Wow. I agree with this but I didn’t think anyone else would say it. Shout music is fun but not for church. The Word should be the main focus at church, not unnatural emotional experiences induced by music

@denittabrown46

4 ай бұрын

Then explain Psalms 150

The thing that I feel is the problem to the whole matter of church decline- (all ministries of the church) we have begun to bypass, ignore, the 1st criteria for service YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. Also the carnal christian should not be appointed to serve. We must prove ourselves worthy of the call. Even in the early church, when saints moved around, they arrived with a letter or one was sent before hand recommending acceptance or reasons for consideration (Paul, the Appostle, did it often). One thing for sure it is hard on the church get a person out of a position and you can clearly see its not a good fit. It can cause resentment, confusion, conflict, bitterness and even division. I had not known a thing- shout music, now, I do, however, I do love it when I have engaged. Not because that is what's happening like the wave you see break out in a stadium at a sport event, but because the Holy Spirit showed up on the scene. O' David, the king was also a musician and he knew the value of music, praise and worship. Can u imagine - him dancing so hard he danced out of his clothes (not suggesting doing this). He fell up in that service with his mind on the faithfulness and goodness of God, all he had done, and the promises and blessings yet to come. That had to have been some kind of shouting music. Didn't matter to him, he danced like he was alone. Thank you for your ministry of music. It is such an important part of service. Continue and guided by the Holy Spirit choosing who he add and subtract. You want the Anointing of the Holy Spirit to be with you always. When the world faces trouble, it is quick to want to join forces with the church. They want us to do it their way, sing their song, "we are the world." We are not the world and have to stop locking arms with the world. If it, whatever it is, is not of God, it has no place in His service. Be bold, be vigilant, be wise, a battle worth fighting!

@SupportTheArts-yo8ox

5 ай бұрын

Also, they didn't have "shoutin' music" back in the Bible days. That's a cultural thing.

Bruh… 3:40!!! THAT PART! I’ve been playing for 30 plus years and can actually play pretty good but I feel so much anxiety whenever I have to play shout music! OMG 😂 It’s insane the amount of emphasis some of these churches put on bumps! I can play a record verbatim, play hymns or whatever but those bumps be wearing me out! Geesh..

I am a preacher I've been preaching over 30 years. This brother is spot on. I don't pastor a church.

Well said message for the mature... Which is why most people won't hear it.

Think was great. Thank you. I'm new to your channel. I will be binge watching your channel.

Brother, I hope you do a video. One day of a church where deliverance is happening. People are getting saved, set free demons, cast out healings happening and praise and worship music that invites the presence of the Holy Spirit of God and angels want to join in and sing and atmosphere with the glory of God comes down. I hope you have that experience and can do a video on that type of service one daywhere the man of God is authentic and the people of God are sincere and truly born again, seeking God and humility and fear

Very brave to show your view point on this subject. Always have been controversial subject. Some people like the museums for the saints when they can set and stare at the church board and hear a monotone song and or speech then have small talk on the way out the door. I have been pleased to see many non emotionally charged churches have revival and come alive. I have always enjoyed when the pastor or musical leader have all singing and music stop and worship continues. You are right to point that teaching can go a long ways. I've been apostolic pentecostal for over 45 years attended 5 different apostolic churches living in different towns in those years. It is a challenge to keep bumping and wild fire music out of our churches . Any church that there main draw for attendance is music will for sure have a turn over of attendance,most mega churches that excels on music have many challenges and turn over of church attendees.

This is a general assumption based on observation of behaviors and not attached to the biblical understanding. I agree with extremes. Some have missed the understanding of the war cry/shout & praise... It doesn't mean it should be stopped, it means it should be taught because it has been tainted and misunderstood

I totally agree with what your saying I’ve been playing for 20 plus years and this has definitely been a vice for the church

I do agree with a lot of what you've said. I would rather have more DEEP preaching about the way we treat one another; the end time prophesies; the way to live day to day, and how we should look and be separate/different from the world. Don't get me wrong, when the spirit moves me. I do love a good victory shout. But when the services are 90%, people running around the church and 10% basic preaching about stuff that we've heard over and over again, there's no real growth and people are not changing their lives or striving to walk closer to Lord (in MY opinion).And yes, I know that people need to be in the word and praying in their own personal lives but we all know that most of the time, the only church that people have is when they go to church

I remember a preacher speaking on the emotional high at a preacher’s conference. He said you do all that whooping and hollering and caught up in the emotion of this conference. And then you go back home to full grown devils who ask you how was service… We need to be more on a level with God than just temporary excitement.

I Strongly Agree with what you are saying. I Strongly Disgree that it should be Banned. It Should be Redeemed. Because, It's misused and abused. Not Spiritual, Yes Manipulative because, of greedy and wicked People. Yet The Holy Ghost Will prevail. The Word of God Needs to Be Taught!! Praise & Worship needs to be Taught Ultimately!

I didn't realize I wasn't subbed, I like your content. I think your message goes beyond gospel music. ❤❤❤❤❤ Thank you

My brother, while others agree with you on your point of shout music, I must humbly disagree. The reason there are so many denominations is that there are a variety of people who wish to worship God in a way that comforts them in their relationship with God. Many musicians of today play simple hymnals with complicated chords that sound nothing like a hymnal should sound. But this generation of church musicians loves those chords. When shout music and shout dancing came into the churches it was met with resistance, and phrases like, "It don't take all that...." I have heard some Christian rap, I have heard some contemporary Christian music, each church should be allowed to serve God in the capacity they feel it brings a closer relationship with God. Shout music is no worse than churches that play slow praise and worship songs that sound boring to some church people and music that people just can't connect with. I have seen some people fall out and bump their head or fall on the floor running, and some have come up from those falls with no bumps or bruises, I can't explain it, but I have seen it. It's more than just the music that's causing the exodus of so many people from the church. I usually love your videos, but this is one you just missed the mark. Keep making your videos, let's have a conversation one-on-one and maybe I can get you to look at it another way. I can also learn some things that could make me a better musician. Peace be unto you my brother......

@marwilliamson6996

4 ай бұрын

Correct

This right here is what separates the church playing musicians from a I play in the club on the side musicians. Church has become a game. Musicians play an important role in setting the atmosphere. Church was to make you turn around, not leave out the way you came in. 😢😢😢😢

You have said some great things in this video, and I’m glad that I watched this as a former church musician myself and someone who is more agnostic I feel that we should focus more on the knowledge of music, the pedagogy and the theory of music more than the sound in the emotional value

YOU ARE ULTIMATELY TELLING THE TRUTH. THANK YOU. 💯

Amen! Love it! Liked and subscribed!

I just discovered this channel today and I LOVE it. You do a great job articulating certain things that help me understand what I've felt about the church but couldn't quite put into words. I hope you reach your goal of 100K! ❤️😊

@TerenceFisher1

4 ай бұрын

Thank you, Victoria! I'm glad my content is valuable to you!! Welcome, and thanks for being here!! 😃

you have raised some valid points. I believe there's a place for geniune pure praise that is Spirit led. But there has to be a healthy spiritual balance. As you pointed out; nothing should override the importance of God's Word being taught and preached effectively. Nothing should take away from sacred music being incorporated in church services. When services are centered around emotionalism loud music a bunch of noise chaos vs divine order; then that's a problem.

Thank you for this MUCH for this NEEDED message!! God bless. 🙏🙏😊😊❤❤

I really feel in my time of deconstruction that a lot of the shout music has been used to emotionally manipulate the church into going to a certain place when there should always be a time of teaching and understanding, and also deconstruction of things that we were taught wrong instead of just shouting over abuse and depression and I’m not just meaning spiritual, but systemic and political oppression as well

My pastor is the absolute opposite of this and I’m grateful. He’s a legend in the gospel and emotional response is not the goal.

Okay the transpose part you got me 😂IM BIG GUILTY. But I am still in a learning process

Sir, I am glad to have found your channel. Sorry to gush, but I agree with everything you say and suggest. I'm a retired trumpet player and electric bassist. You are right on point. Good advice you're giving.

We as saints of God need to look into the election of saints and not 🚫 shouting in church i encourage children of the most high GOD to please research the doctrine of election in God in Christ Jesus 🙏🙏🙏

This is the answer. Proper teaching is the answer. If there was no shout music it would be something else.

Psalm 47............47 O clap your hands, all ye people; " SHOUT" unto God with the voice of triumph.

Well....back in the day it was called..*The Holy Dance* Now in most Churches, its not holy anymore...its a Bunch of flesh. Smh If its holy from God...its still good to dance through your Breakthrough, like David danced in the bible. Once again, If the Shout Music is a Anointed by God...than Yes , it's still good to play , but if it's from the flash , NO stop playing it. You will just be making noise, unto God. This flesh mess has to stop...I know for sure that God is sick and tired of it.

Lots to unpack.

Music can naturally evoke emotions, but there's a huge difference between a natural response during worship and ginning up a ridiculous spectacle purely for empty emotionalism.

The ring shout is a spiritual expression in dance. It has its origins in a dance form, indigenous to much of Central and West Africa, in which the dancers move in a counterclockwise circle. “Wherever in Africa the counterclockwise dance ceremony was performed,” Sterling Stuckey wrote, “the dancing and singing were directed to the ancestors and gods, the tempo and revolution of the circle quickening during the course of the movement.”1 The ring shout as practiced by slaves was a religious activity, with Christianity augmenting the African elements. Participants moved in a circle, providing rhythm by clapping their hands and patting their feet. One individual would set the tempo by singing, and his lines would be answered in call-and-response fashion. In some cases, another individual rhythmically beat the (usually wooden) floor with a broomstick or other piece of wood.2 In his book, Slave Culture: Nationalist Theory & the Foundations of Black America, Sterling Stuckey proposes that ring shout was a unifying element of Africans in American colonies from which field hollers, work songs, and spirituals evolved, followed by blues and jazz. Samuel A. Floyd Jr. takes it a step further in suggesting that many of the stylistic elements observed during the ring shout later laid the foundations of various black music styles developed during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. According to Floyd, “all of the defining elements of black music are present in the ring.”3 These basic elements of ring shout-dance, calls, cries, and hollers; blue notes; call-and-response; and strong rhythmic aspects-are still alive and expressed today in this music. Improvisation remains an essential element. From the cakewalk of the 1890s to breaking in the 2000s, to dancing and shouting at black churches every Sunday, ring shout is still present and still evolving today. www.jazzhistorytree.com/ring-shout/

I used to go to one of these churches! The musicians were not saved dp their worldly spirit was in the music, n the music was so much like secular music, you see elder adults dancing to the beats, but no preaching!! Excellent video!!❤❤😮 3:29

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

I attend a spirit filled Presbyterian Church where the teaching is foundational out of the Bible and they encourage believers to be filled with the Holy Spirit after salvation. I no longer attend these Black churches where I as an accomplished musician have no place in the ministry because I'm not playing that junk they call music.

I noticed that most services is playing on people’s emotions. Now pass the basket and pay the Pimp in the pulpit.

Well, I've been to churches where it seemed like the lead musician was only concerned about making a name for themself, dumbing down songs, but never presenting more traditional songs that actually had something meaningful to say.

I've seen this stuff in Hispanic churches as well. Services would last for nearly half the day, and the sermon could be about any nonsense or agenda, and the congregation would accept it due to the emotional high from the music and/or shouting during the sermon.

I am a Seventh day adventist not all of our churches are quiet and sibg hymns. We have drums, bass, keyboard. We worship with shout but it is not scripted. Good music is welcome. We clap but i am mindful of who i serve. Pray and ask God to lead you in the right music

Right with you, brother Fisher. Shout music is too often manipulative and unnecessary. I'd rather hear a well rehearsed choir and musician backing them up competently. Many of us need to understand what the word, accompanist means.

Beard gang!! 🙌🏾. Great video.

I have no idea what shout music is, but I am a pianist that plays both by ear and can read sheet music and have deep music theology knowledge. I don't currently play for a church. I have found the entire "ego-centric" attitude of everything in the church to be a huge turnoff. I don't ask to be paid, I don't want a paycheck, I don't want money. I want to work in a non-competitive arena, where I don't feel like every musician is fighting for a spotlight. To God be the glory, not the musicians, not the preacher, not the choir or the soloist. I am not about being in the spotlight, I am about being a facilitator to help bring others closer to God, to help connect people and bring their mind to a state of being ready to receive the word. I want a preacher that preaches substantive messages that both inspire, inform, and challenge their flock to live each day like it is their last, to appreciate and understand the logic and beauty of God's love and creation. I have yet to find a church that does this. Sunday mornings are not an opportunity for salvation, Sunday mornings are for already existing believers. Delivering a salvation message every Sunday is not benefiting the flock that is already saved.

What's going on is that people are not living holy anymore they don't have prayer meetings they don't teach people how to come out of sin this is the problem it's about

It needed to be said!

I'm a church musician myself. We NEVER have ANY shout music and if we do it's a rare phenomenon. The messages being preached or shared at the church while it may be entertaining, at the end of the day it should always be challenging. God's word should NEVER be compromised in any way and should impact everyone in the congregation without "Shout music".

I thank you Brother, for speaking truth. ✌

OK, I'm 2 minutes in, and I feel like he's having two different conversations. I agree that we tend to judge a sermon, service, or musician's ability to play based on the emotional impact. However, I disagree that emotion plays no role in the service as a whole. If in fact, that is a part of his argument. All this is the same as a person who says that since the preacher used Greek and Hebrew, his sermon had substance. A service that is quiet and lowkey may not be pleasing to God either. We have to have grace and understand that the reason God calls for different churches to start is because it's not one size fits all. That's not to say that the Church doesn't have a universal mission. It does. But every church has its very own target demographic.

I prefer the secrets and wisdom of the Elohim over "Anything" there is nothing like that high, I am addicted to His truths and I feel weird if I go to long without learning the secrets of the Word. It has become my life's obsession. But the world says I'm wasting my life because all I do is obsess over the Oracles of the Word, but I'm not wasting my life, because I am finally alive! I want everyone feel it! But only the 10th can understand 😢

We need to go back to Ron Kenoly, Funky Soul Praise and Worship style! 'Come into his house, magnify the Lord'

When I VERY first got saved (many moons ago), the first church service I ever attended, they played some shout music near the end of the sermon. As a skateboarder barely out of his "heathen" phase, I remember thinking "Hey, this is like punk rock!" because of the tempo. LOL

Great video with excellent points! While it is great to allow our emotions to center on God, at the end of the day - they are emotions. We should be playing music, leading worship, to glorify God - not to cater to emotion. I attended a charismatic church for several years and emotionalism was at the center of the worship time. We would vamp on the same progression, hypnotic repetition, while people acted out. That’s all fine and good, but then the substance of the sermon was shallow - but don’t forget to give your “tithe”! True Biblical Giving is so misinterpreted by most pastors anyway - and music has become a manipulative tool to ensure that their pockets are lined. It’s a shame and there will be consequences for that. I’d rather go to a church with NO music, giving up my years of music experience, education, etc., than to play in a “church” where emotionalism is the center and true worship is forsaken. Thank you for this video. It is on point!

To say shouting music is dumb and should be banned is straight outa pocket bro ! Just because some or even many churches have used it for the wrong reason or purpose dont mean it's not needed ! It is still music of the church And for the church ! David in the Bible played himself happy danced outa his clothes so should we banned clothes to! people drink and drive so should we banned cars to! people lie so should we banned words as well! at the end of the day as it relates to church there are many songs that fast in choir music in devotional music that require those same beats chords and baseline structures even slowing it down to congregational your still utilizing the same chords /bassline structures and beats in many situations . And as a musician you actually can benifit from shouting music you gave the illustrations yourself by calling out all the runs and all the many chords so with runs you can definitely work on your dexterity while yet expanding your vocabulary by understanding placement and with chords and baselines you could learn placement , timing and coordination etc. drums basically the same principles apply so if you going to take out the shouting music then you would have to take out preaching music high praise music congregational songs and or turn arounds heck its comprised of jazz and blues and rock so lets cut off those genres as well etc. you would be with no music at all in the church if thats the narrative we take! you just cant apply one thing to everything everywhere and say lets do away with it without considering doing the same thing and removing every related component that shouting music is made up of from every situation those runs and chords and beats is actually being used and applied to in music period! Shouting music is a form of praise and worship unto God ! there are a lot of things people do for the wrong purposes of a good thing should we banned everything that people misuse ?

@joelnicholsonjr.3877

5 ай бұрын

Outstanding point 💯💯💯

@Sarcasm1855

5 ай бұрын

It's Cruella DeVille on the count of 3 church aerobics music for empty nonannointed souls both the leaders and seat warners‼️

@MrJands123

5 ай бұрын

@@Sarcasm1855 Not exactly sure as to what your trying to say.

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

So long as you have saved and consecrated musicians who also have a prayer life

Already in the 80s Blues Brothers Movie James Brown played a hype preacher relying on shallow preaching and lot of shout music (literally singing “oho shout”)

I have been a Church Musician since the 80’s, I can say that I’ve seen some Folks feeling the True Presence of God in their Shout for something that they have overcame that was going on in their Life, however, I have seen some Folks Shouting where it look like they were on a Carnival Cruise having Great time partying. As a Bass Player, I do notice that certain Bass Runs that I would play, as well as turning up the Bass make some Folks Shout even more! Is that a good thing or a bad thing, I don’t know, but I can say, that it made them feel good at the moment. And I like to watch the after effect of the person that was just shouting, to see if the good feeling last the rest of the Church Service. Like anything, there’s Good things, and there’s Bad things, same with Shout Music.

church shout music without the spirit, and most the time it is, leaves a deep emptiness 😢.

All subbed up 👍👍🏽👍🏿🎵💜to 100k 🚀you go!

You are correct sir.

Oh wow T Fish..I'm so glad I found your channel..gramfam..new subbie🌹💯

You make valid points. I respectfully disagree with banning shout music. It’s a part of the worship experience. Again, you make valid points and I agree with you fully on some things.

@mdmusic2874

5 ай бұрын

Yes also when the Holy Spirit hits you to play a certain way you have to flow with him!

@Ma1nguy

5 ай бұрын

Shouting is NOT synonymous with "Worship" Too many people put "shoutin'" in the same class with worship. Praise is what you do in the outer court. Worship is what you do in The Most Holy Place in the presence of The Great I Am.

@ag_the_musician

5 ай бұрын

@@Ma1nguy I respectfully disagree.

@abellewis3062

5 ай бұрын

I will say, shouting is just emotion. It doesn't mean a person is saved. Enough said.

@Akhenaton1906

4 ай бұрын

​@@Ma1nguyPraise involves inward as well as outward/verbalized expressions of awe, love, gratitude, etc towards God. Worship is much less a distinct action and more about the way we live our lives. Walking in the Spirit, walking by faith, walking in love, and perfecting holiness in the fear of God constitute the highest form of worship we render to the Lord.

I neither fully agree nor fully disagree. But there are some valid points here.