I quit sod when economy was completely destroyed in phase 3 by blizzard being a dumbass.

@user-sx8gn9uz4o

24 күн бұрын

It wasn't though. They did huge bot ban waves and made new accounts can trade gold. You have no idea how much that actually helped the economy. I am a gold buyer and I won't buy again on sod because I got banned 4 different times. All the gold is gone. I personally new the farmer who didn't bot the gold and still got banned.

@Snxgur

23 күн бұрын

@@user-sx8gn9uz4o weird, ive bought over 15k gold on SoD in total and have recieved 0 BANS!. not sure whats up with you

@wowreddion

23 күн бұрын

Same. P3 Completely ruined the experience for me

@KHConnect

23 күн бұрын

Same and a shame

@RadarFinsR

23 күн бұрын

@@user-sx8gn9uz4o Brother you're so unaware it's hilarious. They made incursions so overtuned on the first day that I know people who farmed 2k in 2 hours, then through all the "tweaking" of it there's plenty of people who sat there for the 2 days they had it at 50% of that value and farmed literally 10s of thousands of gold. It's why a lot of the materials are literally more expensive than they are on cataclysm lmao. Also if you trade large sums of gold in SOD you'll be banned there's plenty of easy ways to get around this which people have been doing like, the auction house. Worse than the economy for me the game is just dogshit boring raid specs have basically all been the same since P2 and PVP is literally dead on arrival because blizzard can't be fucked working on it.

The player base ruined this game. Demanding logs for puggable bosses... its like fuck it.

@andrecardoso6941

25 күн бұрын

Exactly this!

@thiccroman

25 күн бұрын

To them… It’s an automatic waste of time if it isn’t smooth and easy.

@ejlorbz

25 күн бұрын

Exactly. Blizz can make all the right moves but the player base just isn't the same anymore

@user-xd1kx9od4e

24 күн бұрын

And then making fun of "wotlk kids" who wanted gearscore. Wow playerbase is so lost

@mramisuzuki6962

23 күн бұрын

The gatekeepers has kept my 15 bucks in my pocket.

Back In The Day, we'd keep raiding after getting BiS because we enjoyed raiding with our friends and wanted to help them gear up too. Or we started doing more challenges within the raid for achievements. Or we didn't even get BiS before the next raid tier was released.

@AdjustSZN

25 күн бұрын

To be fair, Asmon is making it seem like most scenarios involved getting “fully geared” after one or two raids. Even in guild run with SR, I got full BiS just before P2 and when P3 launched I still didn’t have full BiS on my main. Super unlucky with a couple of items.

@calzord

25 күн бұрын

@@AdjustSZN Well, he gets gear funneled to him. I like Asmon but these takes are... I agree with @bawfuls I like to keep raiding to help my guild and to grow as a team.

@eodyn7

25 күн бұрын

Back in the day? Millions of people still do that every season.

@FeralKobold

25 күн бұрын

​@eodyn7 was gonna say this is still the norm lol. Even in the deadest season a couple week from prepatch my guild is still doing chill reclears on alts and helping new people

@RadarFinsR

23 күн бұрын

@@AdjustSZN You being serious? with the amount of tier and the lack of upgrade in P3 I was literally full bis on 4th raid every single raid member had full set of tier, and the few upgrades we were chasing were minor. Most of my guild was full bis far before p3 even on alts for gnomer loot maybe minus one single minor item like mechanists gloves or the trinkets. With ST most classes had tier set + 3 items to even upgrade lmao acting like it was hard to gear in P3 is just fucking hilarious to me

Remember when people just had fun with things

@Ben-ek6pj

25 күн бұрын

play Turtle WoW, people just have fun there :)

@antonkokic

25 күн бұрын

@@Ben-ek6pj enough

@joelhodoborgas

25 күн бұрын

These private server andys are the vegans of wow. shut up already. private servers is for clowns anyway

@TreesPlease42

25 күн бұрын

It's like an AA meeting

@eodyn7

25 күн бұрын

@@Ben-ek6pj Nobody wants to play private servers. Have fun getting your identity stolen.

45:10 talking about taking time. I can remember spending 8 hours in MC back in vanilla trying to figure that shit out. Me and 39 other people. We did that several times. I can’t imagine doing that now.

@Lurreable

14 күн бұрын

The player base is older, people have jobs, kids, families. More and better content is what's needed, not time consuming grind.

People complained about how few tanks and healers were around, blizz makes lock, rogue tanks and adds a mage healer... now some are complaining about having rogue tanks and mage healers.

@HamHamT

25 күн бұрын

Tanking sucks no matter the class

@ATDF1

25 күн бұрын

making more classes able to tank isn't the solution to that. it just muddles class identity. more people just like dpsing than tanking or healing. especially with parsing being so popular.

@Voltairus30

25 күн бұрын

Because everyone wants other people to tank so they don't have to. Making other classes able to tank or heal doesn't mean those people now want to tank or heal. People want access to the easiest path possible and the most rewards possible, which is stupid. Lol

@jaymzOG

25 күн бұрын

There were few tanks and healers because the existing classes that filled those roles were limited/broken (and not in a strong way). If they had just improved those classes, things would've been fine.

@lilbusy94

25 күн бұрын

tbh classic andy's were saying it was weird and not what they were asking for with classic+ the day it was announced. obv people have always complained about looking for tanks and healers but did you rly ever see that suggested that said idrc im playing cata over sod. sod looks pretty good i just prefer focusing on one.

i stopped playing sod cause of the incursions, saw my guildies were making 1k-5k gold the first 30 minutes they were released then they hotfixed it. completely ruined the economy

@cod-the-creator

25 күн бұрын

sucks to suck

@brandonwilson4740

25 күн бұрын

Nobody made 1k gold in 30 minutes. You're a liar

@Ohhelmno

25 күн бұрын

Yeah, part of the reason I quit as well as I missed the boat on them cause I was sick the first few days

@jasonlohbauer6749

25 күн бұрын

This is a lie. I did incursions from 17 minutes after p3 launch until the gold was hot fixed. I made a little over 1k. People at the very extreme end of things made 1500. That was like 3 months ago tho, so yeah it also did not kill the economy. You’re just a salty sad boy who’s looking to blame shit on your inability to stick to anything. Glad you quit

@jonk9293

25 күн бұрын

Pretty much. Missed out on this, now I can't afford anything, gg.

Man if only they did what Turtlewow did with their servers, new quests in all zones, new dungeons, new raids, new leveling zones, new race/class combos, new profession recipes, hundreds of new gear items and making sure all the new content make sense Lore-wise. They basically a "Classic Era continued" kinda server. It's brilliant. Low-key Blizzard should hire their staff and make this come true.

@ejlorbz

25 күн бұрын

I still think that Blizzard can do this route with a permanent server. People forget that SoD is temporary so theyre just dipping their toes on Classic+ content and can go crazy with it without much repercussions. Id love if they pick all the good content of SoD and add that to a permanent classic+ server and build it from there

@Krulfar

24 күн бұрын

​@@ejlorbzthat was the idea from the begining, they said it many times. SoD is basically a PTR for Classic+ and that's why I'm not very mad about stupid decisions, like let them make mistakes so they know those are mistakes. I just hope SoD dies fast so Classic+ comes earlier.

@ejlorbz

24 күн бұрын

@@Krulfar But if it "dies fast" means theres no demand for classic+ and they probably wont be doing it in permanent servers if theres no on interested in it. So I hope they fix it up, add good content that people love and just put those in a permanent server.

@Krulfar

24 күн бұрын

@@ejlorbz it doesn't mean that at all lol

@derlamba

23 күн бұрын

​@@ejlorbz if what dies fast? Sod? Sod is retail, people that like vanilla does in no shape or form think sod is classic+. People asking for classic+ are those who played on private servers, those that signed the petition. Classic+ is vanilla with some minor tweaks, minoooor tweaks and more dungeons, raids, zones, gear. Not mage tanking and rogue jerking off in his retail mouth.

alexstrasza scorches bolvar alive to save him and no one questions anything but let an arcane mage rewind wounds on someone and suddenly it makes no sense

Loved this convo, and the differing opinions from both of these guys was incredibly insightful. THIS is the great kind of reaction content! Anyway one thought about Raid ID vs Boss ID. I think a slight compromise between the two is the best option. Ultimately, keep Raid ID, however you can still enter other raid IDs and help out while just not being eligible for loot. The way this would work would be when you enter a raid and are NOT saved to a raid ID, a dialogue window pops up and asks if you want to save to the raid, making you eligible for loot, but locked for the rest of the week. If you decline this window you can stay and just not get loot. When you're SAVED and you enter another raid ID, a window pops up and lets you know that you are saved to a different ID and can't get loot. This keeps the "stick it out together" social contract that classic is famous for while still letting friends play together. Win Win imho. Only real downside I can think of off the top of my head is potential issues with "boost selling".

@mcfarvo

24 күн бұрын

Good idea 💡

The worst thing that ever happened to WoW was it becoming super serious through the years. Back in the day if you wanted to be hardcore you joined that type of guild. These days even random groups act like you have to have this gear score and this type of experience....For the casual it has killed the enjoyment of having fun with people around the world and connecting. Having to be a good player to get gear is just wrong, it should always be a roll system to make it fair to everyone who is involved. I don't care if the tank or the healer are better than the others....the worst player in the group is just as important as you wouldn't be raiding otherwise! It is a computer game...no one else's time is more important than anyone else's!

So having multiple difficulties and different lockouts are bad because it segments the community Yet gdkp runs which are filled mostly by people who only do gdkp which are essentially carries with no real community sense are ok because if you don't wanna do them just go to other raids Also people keep complaining about retail being full of FOMO but you can't make a raid reset twice a week because you HAVE to clear every reset because otherwise you will be permanently behind (and that can be applied to literally any content implemented that has a lockout) I swear every classic take the community has contradicts the last one

@jasonlohbauer6749

25 күн бұрын

Preach brother. It’s so fucking annoying listen to these children bitch at every single chance they can.

@Draux.

23 күн бұрын

The problem is not GDKP by itself, the problem is everything around GDKP, GDKP make people buy gold, that gold doesnt go away after the GDKP it stay there then inflation comes and everything goes up then what happend? AH prices goes up consumable goes up, random items goes up, mats goes up and at that point you reach a level where people that are casual cannot play the game cause they can't continue unless they spent money to get gold, cause otherwise they can't raid they don't have the gold for consumable, then you think i guess i'll farm gold, when farming the gold for your consumable would take your entire time. the point of Asmon saying losing your roll to a bad player is tilting, imagine being top dps and little timmy at the bottom of the chart is a gold buyer and out bid you, i would alt+f4 right away. The real problem of wow is the community is pure dog shit they complain about everything. My only real complain about SoD so far is incursion. On paper it really nice but again the community decided to just do loop for 15 hours and then saying omg it dog shit then when they change incursion people still complain about not being fare for people that couldnt abuse it.

@zooleebest

23 күн бұрын

in phase 2, blizzard kill pugging. GDKP is already killed long before phase 2 arrived.

@shoyupacket5572

7 күн бұрын

@@Draux. nah GDKP is the problem, but raid loot has always been the sole biggest cause for drama in wow in one way or another. there's always some shitty fuck face that's going to ruin it.

The 20+ raid size system was a great way of adding a difficulty slider for casuals that should be in all SoD raids going forward. If a raid is too hard don't ask for nerfs just bring more people!

Blizzard doesn’t ban gold buyers. If they do, they might catch a 3 Day and MAYBE lose the gold they bought if they haven’t already invested it. Banning GDKP was a lazy way to lessen gold buying, which is still running rampant regardless.

@RadarFinsR

23 күн бұрын

SOD gold buyer banning is actually their most thorough, you get a 14 day ban and you usually lose the gold if you didn't spend it yet. However they had to make the new player experience literally unplayable for your average solo player since new accounts are locked out from any kind of trading of items or gold to others for a month. the real problem is it's easy to not get caught buying gold in any version of the game as long as you wash it enough and have enough burner accounts. My guild had 6 people get banned for gold buying in SOD which was a smaller guild than our classic2019 and through tbc we only had 2 people get banned. The real problem is blizzard just can't balance a good game tbh.

GDKP keeps high end players running groups = more groups = more players playing since they're able to raid and get loot. GDKP is big.

Except blizzard doesn’t perma ban the buyers so it never fixes the problem?

@Regularguy2nd

23 күн бұрын

Well it doesn't matter how long you ban someone for if they just keep on coming back with new accounts

@chrisjones658

22 күн бұрын

@@Regularguy2nd If you spent 50$ on gold and had a character you'd sunk weeks into banned a few times you'd stop buying gold. If that account was also tied to your retail account(s) and they also got banned and any account linked to your billing card also got yeeted then I'm pretty sure that'd stop a fuck tonne of people buying gold. People need to fear buying gold. The fear of being punished isn't there and the fear of the punishment in the highly unlikely event you do get caught also isn't there because they don't ban you for gold buying. The worst punishment I've seen is a months ban. This whole hour long video had Xaryu and Asmon talking about player psychology. Putting the fear of god (in this case Blizzard) into people would stop most people buying gold.

Yeah, on difficulty in WoW, its like the Overjustification effect studies, if you don't know they'd basically bring children into a room and one group would be rewarded for each picture they drew while the other group was just told that they could draw. The study found that providing rewards would keep the kids drawing longer, but as soon as the rewards stopped they would stop drawing. Retail is designed to give rewards for drawing pictures (doing content) that is their loot philosophy, their designers have said so. Classic is designed to give you all the paper & crayons they can and let you draw the pictures as long as you'd like, the rewards are there but they aren't the purpose of the game

@DoomBringerDANTE

25 күн бұрын

This isn't even true? The loot is a bigger chase in Classic than it is in retail. Thats the main reason people do stuff in classic. After a certain point PVP and M+ are completely useless for gear and rewards. Going above 2100 and going above +10 is pointless. Yet people will and do.

@ripedroxx

25 күн бұрын

So loot isn't the incentive yet people crave gdkp's which sole purpose is the reward Leveling is great yet people keep buying boosts and rushing to endgame At this point the game design could be whatever because the community plays in a completely different way that they used to back in the day and there is no coming back to it in a grand scale, just find a community that plays the way that you want to play and enjoy

@morganfreeman5260

11 сағат бұрын

@@DoomBringerDANTEno bud. leveling is the chase in classic. gear is just an added bonus. retail leveling is absolutely garbage even if it takes less time you have no idea what gear you have on constantly swapping after every dungeon spam

They made it easier to finish your goals. They fast tracked every goal you had. That’s made it empty, I have no motivation to level. We used to have a challenge to overcome, which we would find friends to make it easier.

Banning of GDKPs absolutely had a massive negative impact on the pug scene in SoD. It's one of the biggest mistakes of the season for sure.

I fully disagree with the idea that GDKPs were a big thing back in the day. They just weren't. I dont know a single person who actually did a GDKP run before ICC. Back in the day when you got fully geared, you helped your friends get gear, you did PVP, and most of the time you started playing an alt and doing it again.

@Chaoticsaur

19 күн бұрын

Gdkps were popularized in ~2008, the Asian guilds were doing it, and it slowly moved over to the us, however prior to that, loot style auctions took place as far back as EverQuest, just because you never took part in them, doesn’t suddenly make them non existent. There was 12 million people playing wow, the MAYBE and im being super generous here, 50-60 people you knew, just didn’t participate in them, that isn’t really that strange given the amount of players. Anyways, now you cant use your argument that you don’t know a single person, because now you know one 😂

@og_ktg

19 күн бұрын

​@Chaoticsaur so exactly like I said, they gained popularity during Wrath of the Lich King. I dont care if they existed in everquest, that's completely irrelevant. They weren't "commonplace" in wow until WOTLK. We're talking about what happened for the first 4 years of the games existence, where people had plenty to do despite no gdkps. Specifically in vanilla since this is a classic wow issue. Also, I dont know you.

Why we are taking the opinion of a person that does not even play the game and he only spends time dissing people and talking about drama?. Every time a person reminded him that his take is absurd or simplicistic he just say "I have played 30 YEARS IN WOW! I KNOW" yeah sure, because he is the only one that did? I play SoD and I started playing long time ago in vanilla and I have a totally different opinion. Stop being polarizing, Asmon was a player that knows some things in the game and after Cata always had a different experience from the others because of him being a streamer.

@ZekeHair

5 күн бұрын

Fact here

Soft res is a great system. Perhaps one of the best loot systems I've ever used. Its a nice feeling when only you soft ressed a piece of gear, and it drops, so you get it. On top of that, anything that isn't ressed, you get to open roll on...great system

The raid id system, more than anything, builds resentment amongst players from every experience I've had in the game. If anything, boss id actually builds more community because you can afford to bring bad players to the bosses in 2 different groups until you get stuck and then finish the raid with the players that care enough to learn their class. This also applies well to pugs in regards to boss id

@KHConnect

23 күн бұрын

Yup

1:02:00 your character persists but all your gear is worthless so its basically the same since the only thing you don't have to do is level, which in retail is more of a formality than anything.

I never raided back in vanilla and won't in SoD either. It's such a huge shift in time requirement going from leveling and dungeons to raiding, and I especially don't have that time now that I'm older. Raiding is a time sink to keep people around, and GDPK sounds like more of the same. A much better solution than grind would be to add more and better content, flesh out unfinished zones, add more races etc.

Turtle Wow is currently creating a true classic +, was watching all of the videos of their server after Asmon watched a trailer. Classic wow but added high elf and goblin with custom starting zones and quests with lore true to the era. And much more lore finished and added in-game. And a small amount of spells/abilities that were really needed for classes in classic added

@antonkokic

23 күн бұрын

turtle wow is phantasma, fantasy... object of desire, it's not fucking real... when sod was released all this people who praising turtle left, new pvp realm was/is completly dead...

@Wolfyyy

23 күн бұрын

@@antonkokic lol right now there are 5000 players playin... and the new patch has not even dropped the pvp realm is dead because NO ONE (apart from 3 loud players) wants pvp servers anymore

@antonkokic

23 күн бұрын

@@Wolfyyy ni hao

Mythic ilvl gear being the same ilvl as LFR in the next tier is what's crazy to me. The seasonal feeling comes in large parts from these massive jumps in ilvl every content patch.

Saying gold is fair when you popularized having people opening trade and accepting all gold offerings is hilarious

I agreed with SOD having normal levelling spped for the current phase. Then when a new phase (level bracket) unlocks, add some XP speed boost to the previous bracket. To catch-up and focus play current phase. And I only consider that an option for SOD because it is seasonal.

i said this in the original asmon video, and saying it here... THE CHARACTER IN SEASON OF DISCOVERY WILL NOOOOOT BE ERASED. Devs already said this

Xaryu I have so much respect for the amount of restraint and levelheadedness you showed while viewing certain parts of this video. For example the insanely narcissistic egomaniacal rant beginning around 39:00. Asmon is a great content creator, one of the best ever perhaps, but this dude is completely out of touch and a victim of his own success. The close up blinks said it all lol. Your a legend bro keep up the great work.

SOD had 10 layers today. Cata came for a visit.

At the end of the gdkp, you got paid a lot of gold from that guys 150k

SoD struggling is just asmon using it as an excuse to say "i told you i was right because of these reasons" and he cant really prove those are the reasons at all.

I never completed a single raid from vanilla-BC because I was a ret paladin. I logged in to explore the world and pvp with my friends. Gaming was different back then. Min maxing wasn’t at the forefront, fun was.

I agree with asmon on the gdkp thing for a very simple reason. I think blizzard should fix the gold buying problem, as a consumer i have no obligation to know how, or care how difficult that is. That isn't my problem but i agree that them banning gdkp because they cant do as their tos would require them to do is a bad move, and i actively avoid and dislike gdkp.

They missed an opportunity when they didnt add mr t in wrath

We could say that about ourselves, we could all be doing better. Knew that one was coming ahah Xar is on point.

Jesus asmon and xar compete for the longest videos of the day

And no, you cannot compare PvP rating and M+ to SoD Parsing. Because both have incremental difficulty as opposed to SoD parsing.

Can we just appreciate this new meta between (WoW) KZreadrs reacting to each other in genuinely mature and respectful ways while generating some awesome conversations?

@josipmarasovic2436

24 күн бұрын

U mean they dont know to make content so react on each other hahahahhaha

The more friction the better. For most people the classic hardcore addon with the many different hades heat like feature added many challenges which was a whole realisation for a lot of players how to view and approach a game differently. RP self imposed challenge. I'm doing variations of this for more than twenty years. Really consciously thinking about it and deciding what I wanted from a game was in EQ and D2 way back. The items dupes and botting got to me. I didn't know who was legit and who not, so I cut all player trade and group activity. Over the years nolifers, swipers and streamers enforced my decision to just keep to myself. So ever since the survival genre wasn't really coined I practically played it that way. Early era Aion Cleric was the most broken class and the most fun I had soloing dungeons in very subpar gear. On BDO launch creating my own guild and solo grinding the missions to try to solo guild bosses in subpar gear on a valkyrie was great. Or now currently revisiting EVE Online with a self imposed ruleset and challenge which I don't really know if it will be possible.

Yikes, I kind of feel bad for Asmond, that multi minute rant about how he is (was) the fucking best and knows more than literally anyone else is giving huge, guy who peaked and is way beyond that peak and can't let go or accept he's not that guy anymore. That was a sad few minutes. Anyways, I feel like class need isn't completely erased like people like to act like it is, mage healer makes sense to me, it's crazy to me no one has ever seen a mage class heal in another game before? GDKP is whatever, I can see both sides of the argument. Raids being too hard was like a one or two week issue, and then fixed. and they were not at all difficult after that. The only reason I don't dislike the Discovers Delight is because it's a season and won't be here forever, with no PTR they would want us to his the cap level changes to test them out. Now if they relaunch and have DD in it, then I would have an issue, but also the idea of the slow leveling is dead, lets be real, even with Classic launch people just did nothing but dungeons until 60. I think SoD has been great, just for the fact that they are trying something new, that they have finally seen that the core of classic people love and are doing something with that. It's not all homeruns, but I appreciate them doing something.

i quit immediately after knowing there are no more 10 men raids.

Difficulty as a concept is subjective. Meaning what is hard for one player can be extremely easy for another. What the result of that becomes is: We have 2 camps feuding over what is Easy vs Hard, when in reality all versions of WoW, Classic, SoD and Retail are all Easy AND Hard simultaneously, depending on where across the spectrum of skill, understanding and knowledge about the game the player stating the claim "Easy" or "Hard" lands. Raid ID: Raid ID is more uniform to what Blizzard aim for with a Guild system, so in that aspect it makes total sense for WoW Classic. But the modern retail version of BOSS ID is the better version for all players in isolation. People who are not in a tight guild group or are just bad at the game, can with the BOSS ID model now get kicked out of the Guild or Raid if they are not good enough or are just fooling around dragging the rest of the Guild / Raid down without progression or loot lockout penalty. But it also create what Xaryu described an easer "fk off" mentality with the playerbase, because it is so easy to just get rid of a player or just leave mid raid without consequence.

I strongly believe that OS-WoW is coming and SoD is just the voting process to let them know how to make it. Vanilla+ or Classic+ will be built on the foundations of Classic and add the "modern" twists and turns that we are developing in SoD. Bypassing leveling just allows the development team to have the players experience changes and the final build will encompass Classic + SoD Changes for a new long term play style.

The raiding scene died without GDKP. All my friends quit. GDKP is just DKP in a tangible form that you can spend on other things in game.

Some of the most fun I had in classic was grinding. Be it jump runs, solo mara, or Frost E'ko. Doesn't matter. Gold sellers and multi boxers ruin this, and make the game a raid sim, or an honor grind. I don't like it

asmon filled with l takes recently

@morganfreeman5260

11 сағат бұрын

every asmon take is an L. he’s an absolutely disgusting human but everyone thinks it’s so funny. why does anyone give a fuck about his opinion? dude can’t even hammer a nail

I mostly agree with the take that classes each had their things they were good at and their things that required other classes to prop them up. I will however say i don't believe this identity fits with every single class in the game. I think there are genuinely classes in classic that just fall between the cracks and that there are other classes that are just generally better then they are at pretty much everything. A prime example of this is Enhance Shaman. There really isn't a single situation in the game for both PvE or PvP that an Enhance Shaman excels at or does better then any other class. You could maybe say that they bring windfury totem but any spec of shaman does that and it's not really a thing that benefits you or boosts you at all it just boosts all the melee around you to preform better. You could even argue that its a negative to their identity because the thing you think about with shaman is windfury its the most iconic thing they have in classic and windfury just gives their iconic thing away to other classes. Now I'm not entirely sold on this position as it is a bit subjective but my main point is that some classes have REALLY strong identities and benefits and other classes identities or benefits aren't really that beneficial at all. Not sure what a fix to this is that would actually make people happy just a thing worth noticing. For the leveling speed topic i agree for the most part except i do genuinely think classic was a bit too slow and it caused pacing and burnout issues. I enjoyed leveling in SoD with the 50% xp buff as that felt just about right to me where i still needed to dedicated time and effort to leveling but it felt better paced. The XP buffs past 50% and all the crazy xp from events like incursions and stuff were WAY too much and actually hurt people going out into the world and leveling, It just funneled everyone into the game into 1 specific zone to speed leveling and caused significant issues with the game. For the points of friction topic i agree that it is part of what makes classic great however i do not subscribe to the idea that all points of friction are good or an over all benefit for the game. There are absolutely many points of friction that have just caused people to quit the game or are just genuinely bad for the over all health of the game. The really hard part is figuring out which points of friction are good for the health of the game and which ones are bad. A prime example is world pvp, i know people that play the game entirely for world pvp and i know people that have flat out quit the game because of it. Its a very subjective point of friction.

Also, people that want to get parses aren't going to be trying to do that in pug groups, period, regardless of loot rules. The only way you can parse is if you are in a group that has taken the time to get full buffs, stacked good players/classes, and planned out how to approach boss strats. That requires coordinated guild groups.

@skarb5797

24 күн бұрын

You drastically underestimate how organized GDKPs are. Even buyers are required to come fully buffed and consumed.

You are my fav wow content creator. Remember playing you in an RBG in like 2011. Keep up the great work my guy

i was excited for sod but quit in phase 1 because i was tainted by how a small indie dev team can make a private server free and 10x better.

I started playing in Vanilla and really started playing in Season 2 of BC. Clearing Kara/Gruul/Mag/SSC/TK/BT was such an awesome time. I don't EVER remember GDKP even being a thing back then, we never sold items to people. Arenas were what really made me love the game, got Glad S5 and that was my biggest achieve as a 14 year old kid. Had another dude I went to school with that was a Gladiator Horde druid, good times. I really don't ever remember GDKP, it was much more social then, people got carried often who were active socially but I don't ever remember buying/selling raid items. I don't remember it being in WoTLK either but maybe that was just me. I'm sure that it was present but it was not at all popular or advertised. At the time you were MUCH MORE likely to see people advertising 1800/2200 carries for gold.

@mcfarvo

24 күн бұрын

I played original Vanilla through Wrath. I don't remember seeing GDKPs. (My guilds did either DKP or a psuedo-loot council where we /roll only if it was reasonable.) 2005-2010 Lightning's Blade

@user-gp4ts4rz1l

15 күн бұрын

Nostalgia googles, GDKP was in the game in TBC for sure can't say about Vanilla because I don't remember it as clearly.

I've never done GDKPs, but if they were around in SoD i might've stuck around longer. Got my full BiS, 99 parses on most bosses and then it just felt like there was nothing to do. I used to be against GDKP until i realized that it really is the most fair loot system, AND it adds content to people who no longer have content to do.

@josipmarasovic2436

24 күн бұрын

How its fair if u dont have gold u dont get items. How does that make any sense

@chance0257

24 күн бұрын

@@josipmarasovic2436 if you don't have enough gold to outbid the next person, you're still walking away with gold in your pockets from that person's bid. If you get zero loot, you atleast come out the raid with ALOT of gold from all the bids.

Fair is everyone pays the monthly subscription and has an equal chance at rolls. Might as well add a feature where you can buy a dice that goes to 200 if GDKP is OK.

Facilitating classes with specs that were underutilized like pally tank/dps and the same with druid specs, etc - those are 100% fine. Make those viable with runes. Maybe don't go crazy with some of the other specs. But I think they were looking at the private servers and trying to capture some of that flavor on a retail server. But I think that we need to remember that this is still a testing ground. They can take all this feedback and drop a true vanilla plus that is scaled back from how over the top SOD is right now. That's the TRUE hope at the end of the day, remember. This isn't going to be permanent. It is a petri dish.

Asmon doesn't want to join a loot council guild because unless he's the guild lead he isn't good enough of a player to have loot prio. He likes GDKP because people give himself thousands of gold and he can just buy it all out. Also he's nostalgic from running scam GDKPs

@derlamba

23 күн бұрын

Asmon is a model of a player i hate everything about.

If they do anything like this again they should just do a Classic+ without the leveling phases. Just release it with the ability to start leveling to 60 from the get go. And create actual new content. They should be looking at Turtle Wow and Project Epoch and get some ideas from them. The seasonal phases with boosted XP just makes people get to the end and burn out faster. I'm more or less done with putting tons of time into SoD. I'll go ahead and hit 60 and I'll probably just do dungeons and get tier 0.5 and then PUG MC/Ony when folks have them on farm and just need fillers. But I have no desire to be on a raid schedule and be spending tons of time farming for consumables and getting all the damn world buffs every week, multiple times a week.

14:32 100% this. NO SOUL on Earth thinks "tank" whenever they hear the word "Rogue". I bet most of them would usually think of these words instead: - Assassin - Ninja - Thief - Pirate(?) - Outlaws - Criminals - Cutthroats - Shadow - Poisons - Stealth - Charlatans ... you know? "Assholes" who never care about fighting dirty as long as long as they win, they always do things "from the shadow" or "from behind" with "dirty tricks"... The word "tank" has NOTHING to do with Rogues imo. What's next? Healer Warrior? From these Gigachad berserkers/weapons masters who'd always be in the front-lines, you somehow turn them into "healing b*tches"? How would that make sense?

Most loot councils funnel gear to officers. Free roll raids are all well and good until some someone decides to ninja an item, and the group falls apart halfway thru the raid. Atleast in GDKPs you're incentivized to try to preform to get a cut, and if you dont get the item you want you atleast don't leave empty handed.

I agree that people want fresh vanilla every so often. It’s been about four or five years since I played and I am ready to go again. Maybe play a different class etc.

GDKP's even if you don't buy gold are great because no matter what you walk away with something. Even if you get outbid, guess what you get a percentage of the pot and you walk away with more gold and you have more gold to work with. If you do GDKP's regularly then you don't have to buy gold.

GDKP are good because you can go get gear from regular raids then go to GDKP after you get the gear you want and get gold for consumes.

Couldn't agree more about slow levelling, as soon as instant gratification was introduced to skip this aspect the game became about sweaty end game boys. Best case scenario would be a game where levelling takes a ridiculously long time and furthest end game content was only touched by a small portion of people. It creates a universe where people feel the gravity of effort and it humbles them.

@gg05irgm

10 күн бұрын

sweaty end game meta sheep is the worst thing that ever happend to wow, the community in sod is TERRIBLE and blizz keep catering to that spam hamsterwheel expansions crowd.

Imo, they should have just brought the other tank classes up to the warriors level and just given people dual spec or removed the respec cost. Allowing the healers and tanks to solo play instead of dumping their gold every week to respec.

It was clear from the very start that SoD was a strategic blunder. The reason is that they focus on endgame content, but if what you enjoy is instancied content, every version of WoW is better than Vanilla. SoD is competing against WotLK, Cata, retail - and raiding in SoD is the worst by a huge margin. Trying to "take the best of each version of the game" can only lead to a duller version of the game. What they should do is focus on expanding the strong points of Vanilla : leveling, immersion, world PvP, social interaction - and the first thing they should do is move away from instancied content. Hardcore was fun because it forces the player to be fully focused - and being focused is a way to immerse the players but it’s also clear that this isn’t a viable option for a MMORPG. Loss of Xp or items, more World bosses, world PvP events is what they should focus on.

Weird specs is one of the best parts of SOD. It makes grouping woth friends easier and has allowed for much greater class viability vs classic

@jaymzOG

25 күн бұрын

Weird specs weren't needed to solve that issue. Fixing existing classes would've been fine.

@anyroad5455

25 күн бұрын

@@jaymzOGI don’t understand why people have a problem with weird specs. If you don’t like them don’t play them.

@ripedroxx

25 күн бұрын

@@jaymzOG but they also did that, more variety is not a bad thing

pretty much 100% agree with Xaryu on everything xD also so refreshing to see a top player/content creator not just shitting on asmon for the updoots

A couple important points as to why GDKP had such a big impact. Its not only a way for top end players to have reason to continuously play after they've acquired their BiS gear, but also because there are a ton of lower end players and mid tier players that only play out of a guild setting that want to raid. If you take out GDKP then a lot of those top players that organize the raids and end up carrying bad players then you will ultimately cut out a large percentage of those players because they will never get into groups that can clear content beyond a certain point. Blizzard would have to implement huge sweeping changes to how easy content is and reward systems to incentivize players to do things without gold being a factor, which they aren't going to do.

(G)DKP is more fair than rolling in the sense you get DKP or gold even if you "lose" an item, or even if your item does not drop at all. Having bad luck with rolls makes it quite likely that you dont even gain anything from a raid. Also that it is pointless to join a raid with rolls if you have all the items already, which will make all raids slower and possibly fail since only somewhat geared and undergeared players will be raiding.

Bad take - gdkp is good for people that are geared, or people that want to make gold or people that like the reward if they don’t win gear. Not every gdkp involves gold buyers…depends on who you raid with.

The problem with gold buyers and gold sellers, is that gold buyers just get a slap on the wrist for buying gold. Most of these people have X amount of accounts to funnel gold through, when they see one of their accounts get a 2 week ban, there's not a worry in their head at all. If it got you a perma ban, you'd most likely see a drastic decrease in gold buying. Blizz also needs to hire GMs to ban bots/gold seller more consistently, as opposed to what? Every 6 months when they've made enough money to get more bots up and running without it stinging a little bit. If Blizz actually hired GMs and banned buyers/sellers, GDKP would 100% be the best pugging method. Blizzard's reason for removing it in SoD was even more funny because people have TBC amounts of gold in just 9 months of not even being at level 60 and GDKPs haven't been a thing since what January? And the social fabric excuse just turned into gate keeping with log checks.

I think GDKP is a bigger factor than he thinks but less than asmon. People are pugging still but are going to quit once they hit that 'i only need x and y'. Where as with gold runs i always leave with at least gold

What i dont like, is like what really defines a bad player? Numbers or how they use their abilities? For the most part its how they use their abilities, along with raid mechanics. But a lot of people just look at the dps and see if someone's low. They could be doing their rotations right, they just dont have that good of gear yet to do higher numbers hence why they are in the raid

Everyone focused on GDKP when you have Incursions that fucked the economy and the people who bought golds prior Incursions. Would be nice if *Warcraft logs* tracked gold incomes and invalidate parses of guilds that had a gold buyer.

This is what im saying… Asmon’s take on gold buyers is so disjointed from reality. They will ALWAYS make new accs, thats kinda why cybersecurity and hackers exist bro…. Like what. How is blizzard gonna permanently stop them lmao…. 😅

@anyroad5455

25 күн бұрын

He’s just ignorant.

59:00 stop thinking it is waste of time, you must enjoy the journey and the time spent, not the end result, you don't play for end result, you play for the sake of it, otherwise nothing is worth your time

42:25 correction: he got carried in cutting edge content at the end of a content cycle and he only was a raidlead so he could give himself all the loot.

@user-gp4ts4rz1l

15 күн бұрын

Really not true is it? Only content he did get carried in was PvP, stop being a cringe lord.

@lunaticmode638

15 күн бұрын

@@user-gp4ts4rz1l He literally got carried live on stream for sanctum during shadowlands

Streamers in osrs 1000% influence their viewers voting heavily and anyone who says otherwise is insane tbh

Felt alienating as a very competent player to get on wrath/Cata classic, Sod P1. was hard to get into groups without a massive budget, Didnt intend on wasting time to spend gold on gear that I would normally just roll on and be done with it

20:12 I quit SoD because half my guild was gold buyers and they only got banned for 3 days to 2 weeks. Half of them weren't even that mad because they didn't lose the gold. If someone purchases thousands of gold, they need a perma ban not a 2 week.

@andrecardoso6941

25 күн бұрын

That’s a lie. I bought gold once in SOD got a 2 weeks ban cause it was my first time and they removed the gold I bought.

@andrecardoso6941

25 күн бұрын

Also I bought a small amount of gold not an huge amount. And they told me if I bought gold again I could get perma banned.

@blacksquirtle9119

25 күн бұрын

I only played phase 1, but bought gold every week just like 20-100g never got a ban or anything

@johnstetak1731

25 күн бұрын

Exactly to the original post and forget about the length of the band...None of you guys got perma banned. People that break tos need to be perma banned.

@WoWcruids

25 күн бұрын

@@andrecardoso6941 bought gold wrath classic got 2week ban. got to keep all the gear i bought with the gold and the 4k that was left over. even though the email said id lose everything. blizzard is inconsistent with their punishments. i still have friends that buy gold on SoD and cata no bans.

Crazy that the assumption is that people are buying gold for GDKPs when most of the people I know who have bought gold usually do it for raid upkeep and better riding training.

The moment i realized No Arena, they couldnt even add ruins of Lordaeron map...... For example one thing that made Vanilla good was classes could do 1 thing forcing ppl together an working together. And first thing I hear is healing Mage, Tank lock. They are going the complete wrong way, its narcassist that have seen the money and power in Blizzard and for the Last 15 years now taken up the the posisions that Me and 3 other RANDOM players could make a better game in 24h with

Asmon’s talked about GDKP for like 20 minutes and he made a lot of great points. Don’t know why the clip was that short. Basically, banning GDKP instead of gold buying was just lazy and doesn’t actually solve the problem. He said that Blizzard should bring back GDKP and actually do something about gold buying instead.

The only role/class change I like is tank warlocks. They were always giga strong solo levelers, tons of interesting utility, but meh dps. Demon form tank lock is the one exception imo, but tank rogues and especially healer mages is stupid.

At this point I legitimately want a new Warcraft game that isn't a remaster of something that came before. I want WoW2 or Warcraft 4 or a souls like rpg based in Warcraft lore (Broxigar)

Asmon never said GDKPs were necessary for people to enjoy a MMO, nor did he say it was the main reason SoD sucks. He simply brought it up as a contributing factor because a lot of the geared players who would have kept raiding to run GDKPs dont go carry groups and reduces the pool of available groups. He spends a lot of time talking about the game going away from the classic design. Also, its not just about banning sellers. Banning gold buyers consistently will discourage players from buying because they dont want to lose their account. Back in the day, most people were pretty scared to buy gold because the fear of being banned.

best thing after i come back and enjoy SOD was they ban GDKP and u can read the chat again

Another rly good informative vid from xar

The people who will be social will have a raiding guild with most of their raid group raid logging after the leveling and pre bis is done. Those who want to ke3p playing a make and alt then either try to get into another raiding guild, wh8ch can be hard if it's late in the game or do gdkp. I tri3d pugging with alts but I just ended not bothering as it was an unreliable way to gear up. If there was gdkp I 2ouldrun incursions to fund that. Keeping me playing because I can gear up a,ts if I put in the work

In my opinion, the bigger question is why do people care what Osmond Gold thinks?

The BEST part about Sod is the new class and spec combos. Mage healer and Warlock tank for example. AMAZING. How people hate that part of Sod is beyond me. It's literally the number 1 best part of SoD. Tanks for example, it's not only cool to open the role up for more classes but actually REQUIRED in vanilla... Come on now..

Literally nothing vanilla left about SoD. Crazy fast XP, no journey, overpowered with skills and gear from the get-go, etc. etc. Only thing missing is the cash shop now.

badtakemongold

SoD effectively killed off the whole point of why vanilla and later classic is so cherished and fun and despite lacking the sheer content compared to retail and even the progressive classic servers it has a charm which still has people rerolling and playing the same content 1-60 through to naxx and HWL. SoD came along and phase 1 was really quite fun and felt great and the anticipation was there for what was to come. IMO they shouldn't have given us anymore new abilities until 60 after the first wave, they gave us just enough where classes immediately felt great without being completely broken, i would have been happy with those and carried on to 60. Instead not only did they add more and more abilities, but they made the gear from the raids so good that their was literally no reason to do any content besides the raids only you are stuck at levels where there was is nothing else to do in the game. And a vanilla server stuck at 40 and 50 is just boring. Like what is the point to even log on at that point. The incursions and world pvp events never play out like blizzard intends when they design them, they are always unfair to the weaker side and it becomes "how can i efficiently grind this event for whatever currency/rep i can get every couple hours". So now instead of people grinding out the world and dungeons naturally as intended in classic because that was all we had, but the gear was relevant all the way from 15-60. you just raid a raid which doesn't have any of the depth of a retail raid, and then you log off. Hence why you see lots of people returning to era servers and HC servers or stick to retail and cata. Its interesting but, we pretty much got to see a fast tracked version of how wow changed from vanilla to modern in the space of a few months and why so many people grow tired of it.

@ ~21:00 you hear Asmon say something like : Players that don't deserve gear can win gear with a roll system. -- This might be a sore spot for Asmon. He might have done a dungeon 100 times to even see the piece he wanted for his DK only to have it rolled on and won by a Warlock or something. Or --- by another DK who contributed .0001% of the parse, Or --- whatever Asmon's excuse is. He sounds like he's turning the UBER RARE gear is the trophy, instead of Completion of the Raid is the trophy. The gear that drops can be seen two different ways ... as random chance to get or as the reason you're there at all. Asmon is the latter perspective and feels a certain type of way about who 'deserves' that gear and who does not. I have no doubt, he'd control who gets what in a Guild run in a similar fashion. Gear the A1 Tank, Healer, DPS first. Gear the A2 Tank, Healer, DPS second. Gear the B1 T,H,D third, and so on. This is the story of socialism turning communist, everyone joins sold on a narrative that they're equals only to participate in the system and have the top tell the rest that what they've earned needs to support the leader class or else there will be no organization for the rest. How quickly socialism turns communist authoritarian once you get the buy-in of the majority. It sounds like Asmon has been burned by honor system roll mechanics and now he wants more control to ensure his odds are ever in his favor. I'm in favor of a roll system with many options decided before the Raid can even be formed by the raid organizer, made clear to all participants who browse available raids. If the participants want to join a raid with those settings for rolls, then so be it. If that style roll system attracts zero help, then folks like Asmon will need to modify their standards or be prepared to wait a long time to find just the right participants to agree. IMO, this resolves the issues entirely AND teaches people with obtuse roll standards that their standards are obtuse (at least with the average players eligible to raid when they typically play).

@user-gp4ts4rz1l

15 күн бұрын

Dumb take, forcing your way of tinking is insane way of balacing the game, if you enjoy raiding/doing dungeons good for you, but you can't say everyone should enjoy it and they shouldn't do it just for gear. What if I don't enjoy PvE content at all, but still need to do it for my PvP offparts or whatever? Should I be forced to sit through hundreds of hours of unenjoyable gameplay because it's fun for you and I shouldn't do it solely for the gear?

@KyleHart_pixsym

14 күн бұрын

@@user-gp4ts4rz1l Your comment sounds like it's from a person that didn't read what was said. There is no force whatsoever in the format of roll system I proposed. The terms of the raid loot would be determined beforehand and unchangeable throughout the raid. If you're attempting a raid at all, you'd be doing so with the full knowledge and expectation of how the loot will be rolled upon. If you don't like those terms you're not forced to participate, you can find another raid with favorable loot terms. Nobody is 'balancing the game' with this measure, they'd be making the loot expectations associated with a raid more clear up front. That's it. Find a place in what was written that suggested all players had to raid to balance the game. I'll wait. If you think you have the rights to a piece of gear, start your own raid with loot permissions favoring yourself. That would be entirely your prerogative and an option available to you in the system I proposed. If nobody wanted to join your terms for loot, that's something you'd need to learn from, or wait a really long time until folks come around to your way of thinking. It's quite simple. This system is entirely opt-in. The opposite of force or coercion.

Blizzard doesn't allow new players to use AH, mail between own characters or trade in person for a month. Great model for expanding player base.

A single person hired to monitor the chats for gold spam would all but remove it entirely in a couple of weeks. Screenshot, right-click, ban. Rinse and repeat every day.

GDKPs are totally not necessary lmao. What do you do when you’re max geared even quicker via GDKP? Just farm gold and then what you’re already BiS geared. This just leads to more gold selling. You also don’t need guilds to do raids in classic, GDKPs are just pugs of random players most of the time, still works for them