you are doing good work my brother! God bless you!

@Phil4All

Ай бұрын

Thank you! I am glad you enjoyed

@ReverendDr.Thomas

Ай бұрын

Good and bad are RELATIVE. 😉 Incidentally, are you VEGAN? 🌱

So I think this may be one of the bigger examples of really splitting hairs between protestants an catholics out there. Both fundamentally believe that you need faith in Christ for salvation and having this, you will do good works. Admittedly the verse stating "faith without works is dead" is arguably the most powerful one in favor of the catholic interpretation of what role works play into our salvation. My main issue with this is the conclusions being drawn from this passage and derivations from those conclusions. It's very particular that it says "dead" and not something like unjustified or insufficient. This would imply to me something more to the effect that having faith with no works to show for it means you didn't actually have faith, hence being dead rather than lacking. Our works are indicative of our faith in the same way that good fruit can only come from a good tree. I tend to stay away from this topic in general because I think it is more dangerous for someone to wind up falling through the cracks getting caught up on the minutia than for us to go through life not have the precise details of how the entirety of our salvation works beyond what was spelled out for us specifically. The common ground that we agree on should be enough for any believer to hold on to and I'd be hesitant about any traditions or claims about implications of being saved through faith. I would never want someone to be told by a believer that they are not saved because their works aren't good enough or that they are clearly saved because of their good works. The protestants failing in this causes them to be less charitable than the catholics, while the catholics have more "believers" just going through the motions in their works while ignoring the true nature of their faith. There's merit and pitfalls in both general interpretations, but I don't want this to be something that people ever feel needed to get heated over.

@Phil4All

Ай бұрын

I completely agree with the essence of your comment. I do think that there is a significant danger with us nitpicking and causing schism over nuances that most people either are not aware of or dont care about. After all, justification is something that no one knows about.

@coolcatbaron

Ай бұрын

The Joint declaration of 1999 between Catholics, Lutherans and later Methodists, would put emphasis under what understanding "faith alone" can work for catholics, too.

@jsharp9735

Ай бұрын

Actually that verse is what trips RC up from not seeing that works don't save you. You made some good points though. Many RC do make it faith PLUS what you do in order to save yourself. I think its a pitfall when you think your works will justify you, when in reality none of us our good and most people including Christians think they're good and that "God see's what I do" as in all the mass's I go to so that must count for something right ?.....Saved or self deceived ? To me I think so many RC think just going through the motions makes them Holy or cleansed or justified because they do the whole RCC song and dance.

@IMakeMetal

Ай бұрын

@@jsharp9735 That's kind of why I bring up the bad examples of both protestant and catholics regarding works. There's pitfalls if you thinking that your good works are needed for salvation just like if you act as though they don't matter at all. I'm just a little weary of saying that you need good works and then twisting words to make it sound like you have to adhere to certain traditions or else you're going to hell in spite of your faith.

@jsharp9735

Ай бұрын

@@IMakeMetal Well the RCC does say there is no salvation outside the RCC. Which I find an absolute incredible statement. They think its all figured out by "Christ only church" and just go through the motions and believe everything they say. I will tell you this though...Ask a RC "What justifies you to God when you die on judgment day ?"......you'll see where these Roman doctrines come into play heavily. Its actually a very simple question with a very simple answer. Yet most will get it wrong.

Very helpful presentation. Thank you

@Phil4All

Ай бұрын

I’m glad you found it helpful!

@ReverendDr.Thomas

Ай бұрын

In what way did it help you?

Fantastic video and great balanced discussion of this issue. To me, as a protestant, I see it as a little bit of a chicken and the egg idea, except of course to my knowledge one with an answer. To me it is through faith that we come to Christ, and therefore our view on the world is changed in such a way that demands works. Therefore: faith -> works. However, I also recognise that this process is often cosmically instant, and not separatable by instances of time by which we can clearly make such a distinction. So I can see also a more Catholic position of the i guess symbiotic relationship between the two on the journey to heaven. This is why I ultimately believe we are all Christians, part of the 'catholic' (in a traditional universal sense) church. If we are commanded to make disciples of all nations, does it not make sense that we administer these teachings in ways that all can understand? The central element of our faith remains. Belief in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, of the power of the Cross for our salvation, and of one true God. I pray that we may not get caught up in fractional disputes but recognise the beauty of all Christians in spreading our message by the grace of God.

@Phil4All

Ай бұрын

Thank you for your kind words and sharing your thoughts! I do agree with the essence of what you are saying. This is perhaps one of the most contentious but also misrepresented parts of Christian doctrine. I think an important question here is the once saved always saved doctrine, as if one is justified and sanctified but wouldnt loose their salvation then it would seem that the protestant presentation would make sense. However, if one can loose their salvation or their justification then it would seem that justification ought to be seen as an end point for a life long process of development

FIRST! 🎉

@thanosdoomjuggernaut2846

Ай бұрын

Nineth!🎉

By what I see, the person missing in this whole discussion is the Holy Spirit. He is the one who sanctifies you. He has made you new, is making you new and will make you new. Any good works we do after being indwelled by the Spirit (which happens after faith in Christ) are done solely by the power of the Spirit. Those works are good works and all other works apart from the Spirit are dead. In other words, we don’t do any of it on our own, nor could we! All you do is continue to believe and God does the work in you and through you. Not to say you’re a flesh puppet for the Holy Spirit, but by the power of the Spirit and Christ’s blood, all sin is counted for nothing and any good works are counted as righteousness to you by the power of the Holy Spirit. Any good work you do as a Christian you point to God and say “it’s all because of Him.” And justification is required in order for God to dwell in us. You must be cleansed before even receiving the Spirit. And sanctification, or the Holy Spirit working in and through you, is God working on your sin nature. And final sanctification is complete in our new bodies. That’s all my understanding.

@Phil4All

Ай бұрын

I do agree with you that all good is done for God and brings glory to Him. The Catholic Church agrees that men cannot do good without grace within him. But that process of justification is necessary for the fulness of the Christian life. People can walk with God or also choose not to walk with God. A Christian who blasphemes the holy spirit would not be saved