You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the old man with a boi (or a girl)

@Intenxsify

6 жыл бұрын

gantur purevsuren Lmao

@batzman9209

6 жыл бұрын

gantur purevsuren they did all a "the dark knights returns" evolution

@arturoreyescortez2476

6 жыл бұрын

Like Joel, or Simon Petrikov.

@joshuapace636

6 жыл бұрын

Love the reference... just don't get why "boi" is the new spelling for "boy"... I find it annoying...

@merrittanimation7721

6 жыл бұрын

And a beard

If you become a post-heroe one thing will happen with you for sure, you'll grown an epic beard.

@agustincampanelli7706

6 жыл бұрын

Rafael Alódio true

@-biki-

6 жыл бұрын

i want this to be true of female heroes too, lol

@radlabman9031

6 жыл бұрын

also become old. lol

@jonahj9519

6 жыл бұрын

Rafael Alódio Old snake didn’t have a beard. Pretty sick mustache though.

@kingofprussia17

6 жыл бұрын

They grow epic tits and ass's.

It because they grew Full Beards

@kneo12

4 жыл бұрын

No because their all now owned by Disney

@obsidianmaster6782

4 жыл бұрын

Oen Refeikanosovich Kratos isn’t owned by Disney. Lol

@deadplthebadass21

3 жыл бұрын

@@kneo12 Sony owns god of war and Disney don't own Sony.......yet lol

@kneo12

3 жыл бұрын

@@deadplthebadass21 That's the point Disney owns everything. Just not right now

Implying Kratos was ever a hero. Kratos was a legitimately terrible person. It only makes sense that as he gains wisdom he would resent and regret his past.

@futurestoryteller

6 жыл бұрын

Well... that is kind of the point. I mean in Unforgiven the main character was not a hero either.

@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr

6 жыл бұрын

John D. If you think that war veterans currently are heroes than yes Kratos is a hero too because he also blindly follows orders from the Captains of the Spartan Army because the Spartan Army and the NAZI'S are no more than the war veterans currently in the United States.

@tommyoneil9128

6 жыл бұрын

Technically he is tho cuz the Olympians and presumably the Aesir and whatever other pantheon they introduce throughout the series are narcissists who abuse their power

@calvinjaynum1767

6 жыл бұрын

Tommy O'Neil Not really kratos ended up killing more people then all the greek gods combined he literally killed like 95% of the population of greece

@calvinjaynum1767

6 жыл бұрын

Embodiment of destruction he could have easily worked alongside the titans and captured the gods him killing them killed millions of innocent people which is extremly hypocritcal. Zeus also only did that to demios because the oracle told him the marked one would destroy olympius which as we saw in gow3 leads to destruction of world

Because we can't all be Ash Ketchum and be ten forever

@juanmanuelpenaloza9264

4 жыл бұрын

Not even he can be Ash Kechum forever. He's settling down with a wife and two kids.

@fegeleinherman8587

3 жыл бұрын

@@juanmanuelpenaloza9264 ash kechum become a father at the age of 10

Because everyone is old now.

@marlom7882

6 жыл бұрын

Dr . Wub well that’s depressing

@western0800

6 жыл бұрын

Rock is dead.... and so our warriors.

@SQUAD012

6 жыл бұрын

And grumpy too

@andrewlyon4495

6 жыл бұрын

In actual seriousness, I wonder if the shifting demographics of the ageing US population is having an impact on how these things are made.

@shahnawazansari119

6 жыл бұрын

simple answer

They all become... Edgy grandpas

A nice twist with Luke is that he doesn’t even have to be violent. He simply provokes Kylo Ren, dodges everything, never feigns a swing, and wasn’t even there in the first place. And that’s some truly Jedi shit right there.

@abalogan

4 жыл бұрын

i think the bigger point is that Luke and Wolverine didn't "Retire", the were defeated badly. the were crushed, and all their friends dead. (except that 1 that survived) it's the victims of the same evil they failed to defeat, that are taking the fight. so they sacrifice themselves so the victims can try were they have failed

@killgriffinnow

3 жыл бұрын

Are you actually joking? “Provoking someone to violence” is “Jedi shit”?

@Pantslessbob

3 жыл бұрын

@@killgriffinnow Technically he's provoking a magalomaniac to waste his time swinging a lightsaber around at someone who isn't there to allow a group of people he's hellbent on murdering to escape, which is absolutely Jedi shit. That is, in fact, as Jedi as shit gets.

@dome2919

Жыл бұрын

@@abalogan Three years later, this is helping me explain to someone why movies like "Across the Spiderverse" make some of the character choices that they're making. Solid comment.

Beards

@rafaelalodio5116

6 жыл бұрын

Even Captain America, after he became a post-hero, have grown an awesome beard.

@Keyser666

6 жыл бұрын

You wont be taken seriously as a mentor by the next generation unless you have one.

@MasonEricPatterson

6 жыл бұрын

Nice profile picture

Dystopian stories are also pretty big, in the same vein. From zombies to tyrannical police states, we're telling ourselves that society is broken. Combined with the absence of heroes and the focus of sacrifice for the benefit of the future, I think we can see what the overall zeitgeist is.

@bewilderbeastie8899

6 жыл бұрын

Honestly, the zeitgeist feels like someone, eventually, will have to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. A future that they might not see, but everyone who comes after will.

@altrocks

6 жыл бұрын

Nah, that would be an archetypal savior-hero. A literal Messiah. If we go on the assumption that the message of no heroes is a real one, then I think the message is one of deep, fundamental change on a widespread basis involving everyone, not just one sacrificial hero or one ubermensch that had the will to do what no one else could.

@asad5067

6 жыл бұрын

society is broken. this system has only been a superficial success, but its always been broken.

@danjalwaziri1657

6 жыл бұрын

merely flawed, broken, or outright corrupt? Hard to tell the difference sometimes...

@havcola6983

6 жыл бұрын

Zombies are a bit of a different thing though. They tend to symbolize the ultimate "they", an unstoppable tide of not-us coming to ruin everything, and tend to become more popular during and after wars. So they're less about society being broken and more about your society being under attack from a hostile outside influence. Zombies cannot be reasoned with, coexisted with and it's us or them, so grab your shotgun and your fire axe because we're about to engage in cathartic, uncomplicated murder. For goodness! Of course there are variations in that genre as well. For example, I think that The Walking Dead fits the bill about societal collapse better since that is really just a series about surviving, rebuilding and how everyone but your core group is a potential enemy. Which may be why it has survived despite most of the interest in zombies dying down.

Man, Logan handled the end of Wolverine in such a perfect way. I love that movie.

I'm not so convinced that we are destroying our cultural myths, and struggling to replace them. Another possibility is that we are going through thematic cycles. Strip away the details and look at the archetypes. We start with stories of simple, idealistic heros who run in and save the day. (westerns, marvel phase 1 + 2 superhero movies) Those become stale, so we move into complex post hero stories (late westerns, current superhero movies). I predict we will see a completely new genre emerge, with a refreshingly bright and idealistic hero coming out of nowhere to save the day from a clearly defined evil. And the cycle the continue.

@ManusfilmStudios

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah I agree. This has always been the case.

@robertlivingston486

5 жыл бұрын

All things are cyclic

@davecullins1606

4 жыл бұрын

I would rather see a hero starting out as either good/bad then go to the other side, and then combine and use the best of both worlds and also become wise because of it.

@silverdragon710

4 жыл бұрын

you mean like frodo in lotr? lol nothing new there either

@davecullins1606

4 жыл бұрын

@@silverdragon710 How does he end up using both sides?

If you want a good life, don't grow a beard. Every time that happened things go wrong. A shave a day keeps the death away.

@klystron2010

6 жыл бұрын

Cap didn't die though, did he?

@ddsjgvk

6 жыл бұрын

klystron2010 only if the hairs are gray

@bionicearth

6 жыл бұрын

klystron2010 he lost almost everyone

@grundlewizard1775

6 жыл бұрын

If you call being beardless _living._

@danielkim5598

6 жыл бұрын

Sponsored by dollar shave club?

“Get off my moisture farm!”

@rafaelalodio5116

6 жыл бұрын

I see what you did there.

@dewaynerichardson5895

6 жыл бұрын

ExiILe00 lol

@benjaminjohnson3755

6 жыл бұрын

That's not what your mom said!

I was waiting for that godfather quote. U didnt dissapoint.

@georgecampbell3687

6 жыл бұрын

They took the words right out of my mouth, man.

Here is the thing... Logan worked, because Wolverine was already a dark semi-fallen character... him being broken down and haggard made sense. Kratos was the same... Luke was a bright shining hope that over came that darkness... and then 30+ years later, you crush that happily ever after we enjoyed. Kratos and Logan never had a happily ever after and they never planned to. Plus, Logan is kinda in an alternative universe; and his change went from younger energetic downer to older less energetic downer... but he still was the same... Also, Logan and Dad of Boy were the hero's story, and the story focuses only on them... Star Wars decided to give the story a new protagonist, but tried to give this same fallen nature.

@leenylee3140

4 жыл бұрын

Dad of boy 😭😂😂

@sportsgamer8524

3 жыл бұрын

I think it could’ve worked. But we needed time. The ST made a huge storytelling error. Luke went from optimistic OT Luke (X), to cynical recluse (Z). We’re missing “Y”, which is Luke developing from OT to Sequel era. Because obviously he can change in three years worth of time, but how? What caused?

Another thing they have in common is that they all grew BEASTLY beards.

The truth is that heroes are no longer seen as shining beacons of justice. It's just literally impossible to fathom the idea that a single person could embody and uphold the greatest ideals. A modern hero is someone who despite their flaws always manages to do the right thing.

Dear Wisecrack, you guys should have talked about "Red Dead Redemption" in relation to a post-western text.

“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain” - Harvey Two-Face • The Dark Knight •

The same happened to Samurai Jack the last season

@ManusfilmStudios

5 жыл бұрын

Would have been a better example than bootleg Luke Skywalker, as it was done properly and truly mythologically.

Yo can we stop pretending that Kratos is just now a tortured soul that cares about his family? This has always been Kratos. It's like everyone got amnesia. Did you all just skip the cutscenes in the last game?

@sorackamet5558

6 жыл бұрын

Right? Most people that have been talking about the new GOW seems to have never played the previous GOW or did not pay any atention to what was actually happening in them.

@davidlamis

6 жыл бұрын

Carlos Vinicius they didnt. Its why battlefield V being historically inaccurate is bad. Children will get the wrong idea

@ahmarcamacho8404

6 жыл бұрын

Its like they forgot why kratos became a revenant in the first place

@joshdavis8381

6 жыл бұрын

To be fair, after the first game he kind of just goes from a tortured man with legit motivations for his actions, to being essentially anger incarnate and losing all of his redeeming qualities...

@Rinnemi

6 жыл бұрын

The main difference is that in previous games Kratos was a tortured soul on a constant temper tantrum. Now he's a tortured soul trying to teach his son to be a better man and control his emotions so that he doesn't do the same mistakes that he did in the past.

For Kratos it was less about him leaving it behind and more about moving on with his life. They both sound the same but there's a small difference. Kratos didn't have to leave anything behind because he was already finished. He completed what he sought out to do, he killed the Gods. But after that there was nothing left to do. So he left to start a new family. For Logan, it's mostly a case of him doing what's best for himself. Age caught up to him, he was nowhere near as Invincible as he once was, so he decided to lay low, only raging out when he's the one provoked. For Luke, it's because of one event, Ben turned to the Dark Side and slaughtered all the Jedi in training. It caused Luke to give up & turn his back on everything.

Kratos, Logan and Luke, 3 great and badass characters that were a big part of our childhood for many of us...

@vsGoliath96

4 жыл бұрын

Sadly, Kratos and Wolverine evolved and became better, while poor Luke got kinda ruined.

Kurt Russel will never change. Snake will always escape, no matter which city they put him in. He will escape from it. Even if they put him in a time machine. He would Escape from the Future.

@andrewlyon4495

6 жыл бұрын

That sounds like a (reboot) challenge.

@thejudgmentalcat

6 жыл бұрын

He became an egotistical dick in GOTG II.

@ttz4m3

6 жыл бұрын

I wanna see that movie.

Logan didn't change, he's always had a soft spot for kids Kratos got quieter but didn't change really besides that from his God of War 3 self Luke is a huge wtf

@Rand0mN0rwegianGuy

5 жыл бұрын

Ike of Pyke ”Luke is a huge wtf” Wow... what a great, thorough analysis. Incredible

@vsGoliath96

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, even now, the choice to make Luke Skywalker a decrepit old hermit makes me bewildered. Had anyone on the production of Last Jedi even seen a Star Wars film?

@skeksilthechamberlain1479

3 ай бұрын

@@vsGoliath96What like Yoda? He was a hermit too.

I am concerned about the effect this dystopic media trend must have on our collective psyche. It reinforces our cynicism and pessimism about the future and human nature. It provides no positive vision of a better tommorow, something to strive for. It encourges apathy rather than enterpise. The original Star Wars was already about rebelling against a tyrannical social order, but with heroes who succeed in the end. It is progressive. The two trilogies since then have opted for a cyclical model, with democracy inevitably decaying into tyranny.

@jamainegardner4193

5 жыл бұрын

The prequels were _supposed_ to be like that though because you know it ends on a high note since it's a *prequel.*

@frogjackethuman781

5 жыл бұрын

In my opinion this is a case of did the chicken or egg come first. By that I mean, is the new cynical direction of Star wars making people more negative, or is society just more negative in general now for whatever reasons and this new negative direction of Star wars is just a reflection of that.

@Serocco

5 жыл бұрын

That's a good thing. You're lying to yourself if you think people and societies dont become worse as they get older

@LegendofLegaia929

5 жыл бұрын

@@Serocco Not really, no. Unless you're a white man, society has only gotten better. The criticisms being made today are supposed to imply that things have always been at least somewhat shitty, not that things are somehow worse now than, say... the 50's, 60's, 80's, or whatever decade people feel like romanticizing.

My simple answer to why these heroes have changed Luke, Logan, And Kratos is simply because they're old. They are old and as time goes on people change. If they didn't change they'd be one dimensional.

@robertbruce7772

6 жыл бұрын

As a guy who is middle age(48) we look on our past rather reflectively, hence the much heralded mid life crisis. We tend to ponder what could have been, have a ton of regret over things not done or done, then after awhile we grow and just move on. People in here don't think Luke follows that pattern, but damn, he almost murdered a kid just because he sensed the dark side in him. If I did that and caused the kid to go to the dark side as well and have him kill my other students, I would be angry as well. Luke screwed up big time and he won't allow him to forget it and move on. He did move on when he went on to become one with the force. SW fans need to get a grip.

@brianmontgomery580

6 жыл бұрын

the problem sw fans have is that its not really in lukes character to kill someone, especially family/friends, because he feels a little darkness in him

@khalilpontikes7293

6 жыл бұрын

Elmo Chops it's not out of character because he didnt kill Kylo, but Luke was basically faced with the Star Wars equivalent scenario of would would you kill Hitler as a baby or when Hitler is a teen/ young adult? That decision wouldn't be easy to make. I think it makes sense for Luke to almost consider killing Kylo. Plus Luke isn't a perfect person, I mean he even considered killing Vader momentarily in episode 6 but he didn't. So it's not out of character for him to consider killing Kylo but changing his mind. At least imo.

@alfa01spotivo

4 жыл бұрын

Khalil Pontikes People don't really change

Few things, Kratos’ rage against the Gods in the original trilogy was ignited because Aries tricked him into killing his first family (wife and daughter) and that rage was tempered further by the other Gods. Also it is hard to call past Kratos a hero, he was a rage filled monster who’s only goal was to get revenge by any means necessary... like killing a bunch of innocent people to gain power and sometimes just because, he also basically doomed Greece/Rome to an apocalypse with the death of all their Gods and Titans which he knew would happen. I get what you were saying but even the Western anti-heroes, that I know of, got anywhere near being considered a villain of their story as Kratos did. Kratos was a monster, there was nothing heroic about him in the original trilogy.

@darthkai3621

6 жыл бұрын

John Klein god basically drowned the earth yet people still worship him.

CAUSE TIME PASSES AND GOOD CHARACTERS GROW OLD AND EVOLVE WITH US

@DarranKern

6 жыл бұрын

or devolve into mopey crybabies, apparently

@mr.dccomics9018

6 жыл бұрын

Not Goku.

@danielgordon84

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but Goku's an idiot. I'm not sure he truly understands what the passage of time even is.

@PathBeyondTheDark

6 жыл бұрын

Darran Kern That's actually sign of evolution my dude, because people centuries ago didn't do that :P

@mr.dccomics9018

6 жыл бұрын

Daniel Gordon lol. Gotta love Goku.

3:90 also JOHN WICK

If ever a culture didn't need the anti-hero, we're living in it now, which is why Marvel movies resonate the way they do. The Marvel heroes may be put to the test, but they still end up doing the right thing. Hollywood is trying to push the "post hero", but audiences are showing that they really want the traditional hero. Btw this is one of the reasons Star Wars really made an impact back in '77 the way it did, and that is why there was such a backlash to what they did with Luke. In 1977 that character actually was a symbol of a new hope after a plethora of anti-heroes.

@nate742

4 жыл бұрын

Logan and Kratos wouldn't work in the framework of the traditional hero. They're too flawed.

@sarizonana

4 жыл бұрын

Yeeees, that’s exactly why I love Marvel and it’s heroes they show us being heroes and doing the right thing still works. The traditional hero it’s still cool. Sure they still have some flaws but at the End they are all about what is right

@deadplthebadass21

3 жыл бұрын

@@sarizonana (just my opinion) with characters like Deadpool, Logan, and The punisher the traditional route will not work... I understand traditional heroes should be used more but saying antiheroes are unneeded or a bad idea is wrong (I'm not saying you're saying that keep in mind) I think we need anti-heroes... Because it's so easy to point fingers "he's good and he's bad" we need something in the middle "a blurred line" to keep the balance in a way Hero Anti-hero Villain

@deadplthebadass21

3 жыл бұрын

Also for Nelson Smith the audience also want accurate characters so characters that are supposed to be r-rated they want the R rating like Deadpool and The punisher..... Yes they want traditional heroes but they also want people outside of the traditional heroes as well alongside them especially in the MCU... Marvel fans are going crazy about that right now

@sarizonana

3 жыл бұрын

@@deadplthebadass21 yees. You make a great point we need all type of characters in general, just when it comes to heroes or Anti heroes not going into extreme trends. You know like hey anti heroes are in vogue let’s forget writing heroes or the other way around we need balance all the time. I just don’t want trends going in one extreme or the other. I think Marvel has kept that balance having heroes and anti heroes in their catalogue of characters.

Talks about post-western, doesn't even mention Red Dead Redemption.

WHERE IS THUGNOTES

@anon8638

6 жыл бұрын

IN THE TRASH WHERE IT BELONGS

@Doublestuffed01

6 жыл бұрын

BOO!

@EmperorKagato

6 жыл бұрын

I think BET had an exclusive deal hence it wasn't on YT for quite some time

Logan and kratos make sense cause they were murdering psychopaths and really more like antiheroes who reformed when they got older and wiser...Luke on the other hand wasnt anything like those two when he was younger he was full of hope and light and restrained against killing a monster because he believed that monster could become good again (Vader) it's not an evolution of his character but a complete rewrite of it

@marinmarinhola

5 жыл бұрын

@Sean Watts Moore he wasn't evil in the same sense The Punisher isn't evil. They fight for what's right, but their methods are morally barren. They're murderers, through and though, which is why they aren't heroes.

@alfa01spotivo

5 жыл бұрын

Sean Watts Moore No wolverine's a hero. Someone like Punisher or Deadpool is an anti hero

@MrEffectfilms

5 жыл бұрын

It's not a rewrite it's a natural progression. Luke can't be the same man at 53 that he was at 23 thats just dumb. He's older, more experienced, and has seen more shit than he had as a young man. He shouldn't be ROTJ Luke.

@awesimo4684

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrEffectfilms Thank-you. All these people who seem to think people are always the same when in their 20s and 50s confuse me. I'm only in my 30s and I'm already quite different than I was in my early 20s.

@MrEffectfilms

4 жыл бұрын

@@awesimo4684 Right, I'm only 27 and I'm NOTHING like I was just 10 years ago at 17.

I was just thinking about this. I'm glad you made this video!

Wow! Never left Wisecrack's video so fast to watch Wisecrack video.

@TheGrimStride

6 жыл бұрын

But they got it wrong in this video. It not because people are disingenuous. It because people feel down and want to go back to when things right. People aren’t against the myths, they love the myths. That’s why in the beginning of these movies the characters are different but by the end the are the back to the way we love them. It’s a redemption story to go back to best parts of us

@FussyPickles

6 жыл бұрын

They got it wrong because this type of character has been around since Homer. They seem to just be rehashing stuff at this point. Like, if you look at eastern film/ideas even, you'll find that kinda stuff there (hell in a 4 volume samurai x ova you can literally find the entire arc depicted here with one character.. as he goes from lone wolf.. to badass.. to a freakin farmer.. and guess what violence follows him after that.. etc) Incredibly common trope.

@DAEDAEANT

6 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment

I love that archetype of the broken down piece of shit character that are well past their prime but still have some of that old badass still left in them. It's a trope that is really prevalent in kung-fu movies as well as Westerns.

there was also old man samurai jack

@awesimo4684

4 жыл бұрын

Left it all behind, lost his sword (or was actually abandoned by the sword). Then along comes a girl... Yeah, fits perfectly. I think the only difference is it's not a child figure that brings him back in, but rather a love interest.

@sharilshahed6106

4 жыл бұрын

@@awesimo4684 which was my biggest nitpick, aside from the halfway pacing, disserviced side characters and pull the rug ending. Doesn't take away from the show's greatness, but I always feel like it could've been way better.

I'm so glad I found this channel a couple years ago, you guys never disappoint. Another great episode here and I'm excited to see your new videos!

Kratos... a *Hero* I never laughed so hard in my life since a while

@RacingSnails64

6 жыл бұрын

Gorgeous Gremac um did you play the new God of War?

@TakumProti

6 жыл бұрын

my tits He’s referring to the original God of War games. In those games Kratos was no hero for the most part.

@jaylanrussell

6 жыл бұрын

my tits have you played the old god of wars

@mrpanda750

6 жыл бұрын

He could be the world's best dad. Kratos still left Greece as a pile of ash. I'm not being cute I think in the lore Greece doesn't exist anymore.

@Sefoskiii

6 жыл бұрын

Gorgeous Gremac ”I never laughed so hard in my life since a while” What? So, have you ever laughed so hard in your life before or not? Answer me!

I just wished Luke turn into the turtile from kung-fu Panda. An old powerful master whose fighting days are behind him and shares both wisdom and how to defend the weak. Also better humor

@rtkratos77

6 жыл бұрын

someone give this man an oscar.

@judahtirona9487

6 жыл бұрын

RT Kratos Thanks?

@Necroxion

5 жыл бұрын

Someone give this man a contact line to Lucasfilms

We are constantly in a state of taking tropes, playing them straight, then deconstructing them into their conponents, analyzing and criticizing them, then reconstructing them in a cycle every few years.

Congratulations on all the exciting projects coming! Looking forward to them.

The Psychology of 'Mob Psycho 100'. It's the brainchild of the creator of 'One Punch Man'. The protagonist is overpowered just like Saitama, but has very different issues.

Problem being, that wolverine and cratos both changed in a way that was naturally organic for the characters that they were established as in previous installments of the franchise. Luke, however does not fit this mold. The way that he is presented in the last Jedi simply does not fit with any conceivable Evolution his character might go through. Kratos and Logan both changed in a way that was believable. Credos has always cared about his family, it has always been an important part of his life. He’s always been a rough rough individual who is deeply concerned about his legacy getting revenge. Logan in my eyes at least has not even changed all that much, The circumstances that have come about which are also beyond his control have forced him to adapt to the situation at hand. That isn’t change though, Deep down Logan is still the same person. To my final point, Luke has changed in a way that is not believable to his character. It is impossible to suspend the disbelief that the person in return of the Jedi and we all grew up loving would turn into this. Even mark Hamilton once said , “Luke would never give up he would do whatever he needed to do save the galaxy”. I’m sorry but I cannot agree to this video, as the creator obviously has no idea how human psychology works. Even humans in real life don’t change this way, why would Luke?

@brightdrake_9992

6 жыл бұрын

Rob Acree K R A T O S

@macree01

6 жыл бұрын

BrightDrake _99 Sorry, iPhone autocorrects mate

So glad to see Jared and the rest of the wisecrack team make huge leaps by taking part in the philosophy and science! Very excited to see the future of this phenom of a company and wishing you and yours all the best!

Great video. Bringing them all together. And now have even more things to look forward to you having new shows coming

What happened to thug notes?

the Kratos, Logan and post-westerns did things, which Last Jedi tries, and miserably fails at.

@futurestoryteller

6 жыл бұрын

Didn't your teacher ever ask you to show your work?

@Wargulpartal

6 жыл бұрын

In other words: Just because Ruin Johnson and Darth Kennedy saids, that Luke dies with peace and purposes, doesn't mean it is the case. Luke and Rebelion doesn't accomplished anything. I mean ANYTHING!! Those children, whos plays with Star Wars action figures are cherrish about story, that is not even inspiring, not even a bit. The Last Jedi is holow AF and makes no sense. The way, how rebelion fails because of women, is infuryating, showing enormous stupidity of Rey, Holdo, and definitely Rose. Luke shows some magic trick, that let him allow to avoid death, but then he still dies!!! That is extremely stupid, considering the fact, that Snoke was able to create connetion of Force skype between Rey and Kylo, but at the same time he couldn't get the coordinates of Lukes whereabouts??? And then Luke knows the very specific coordinates where do he have summon the hologram of himself, despite the fact he don't use any tracker on millenium falcon, or we don't get any suggestion he used any. Also, Lukes metamorphosis from Luke we know into Jake Skywalker in split of second during ONE, SHORT and STUPID slapstic scene is just offensive, and does not explain why Luke doesn't confronts Snoke instead. There are so much and so many stupid things, stupid on so many levels, that is hard to mention all of them in one post... =_=

@Wargulpartal

6 жыл бұрын

Anson Hartzler : Read my second post above. I'm to tired to write everything. Look at Mauler, I don't agree with everything he say, but with most of it: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qKtr0sV8mpO1gs4.html

@Wargulpartal

6 жыл бұрын

Next one will suck also. I didn't like Force Awakens, it was shit (no worldbuilding whatsoever, Mery Sue, disapoining villain etc.), then the shitiest sequel coming in. Next film will suck also. Next film has to be boycotted, in order to force changes in Lucasfilms. That's the only way.

@Wargulpartal

6 жыл бұрын

And in addition: link I provided is not to simple review. It is an indeph analysis, an valid well researched critique.

Exactly, I love the change of perspective and evolution of maturity, there is a nuance to being a hero, more restraint, wisdom. Thank you for your rich content, its crazy, I've had this discussion with mates of mine.

both parts of the video were amazing to watch/hear abt im so excited for it all!!!

I think that "THE LAST OF US" has a strong influence!

@deriznohappehquite

6 жыл бұрын

Roberto Dantas The Last of Us is more a subversion of this, I think.

@futurestoryteller

6 жыл бұрын

Subversion? This begs the question - does anyone know what Jared is actually trying to say?

@BLasherman

6 жыл бұрын

No, because Joel was never a hero, so he can't fall. Joel is a bad, selfish person and his actions paint this. Re play the game.

@DarkAngelEU

6 жыл бұрын

Lol so true, he only saved Ellie bc he couldn't afford losing another daughter. It still separates him from almost all the other characters in the game tho, everyone is trying to survive and recklessly kills every human they meet. Even the Fireflies would kill an immune person to potentially save themselves. Joel does the same thing but he ends up saving someone. I'm really looking forward to part 2 to see how the world has changed since we left it. Ten dollars say there are gonna be cults.

@Brokowski1

6 жыл бұрын

Kratos was also never a hero though.

you missed samurai jack

@mohanafy9264

6 жыл бұрын

El Fercho I know right I used to watch samurai jack when I was too young ,now when I got older asking what went wrong made the last season of samurai jack more relataple to me

@ZachBobBob

6 жыл бұрын

Nice pull dude

That was my favourite video of yours from this year. And yesss, finally a Twin Peaks S03 video form you guys!

I'm an ELA teacher in South Carolina. I stress the idea of Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey theory and archetypes while teaching 'Odyssey,' 'Beowulf,' 'King Arthur,' etc. And your video had me 'geeking out' over ideas I discuss in my ELA classes through your discussion of some interesting points...I was especially 'geeking over' your analysis on the Superman and Captain American stories and where they have gone in the 2000s from where they began - something I discuss in-class with connections to old hero stories to now :) Thank you for this video - I plan on using it in classes next year!

I'm not saying I don't like these, but I miss kind of miss Thug Notes.

I think that Kratos and Logan were done better than Luke, because they have better explanations as to why and were generally darker characters before they became what they were.

"Hero" and Kratos don't really belong in the same sentence... Just saying.

@Ineedgames

6 жыл бұрын

Well how do you know all of those innocent people he killed weren't secretly murderers?

@Jimmys921

6 жыл бұрын

I think "protagonist" would be much more fitting.

@Tyrantlizardking105

6 жыл бұрын

I think it’s just a linguistics thing. “Protagonist” And “hero” sometimes become interchangeable even if it isn’t entirely accurate.

@R3GARnator

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting thing about that, is Greek Myth Heroes were never shining beacons of morality, they were just badasses. So it's true to the text in that regard.

@quadeevans6484

6 жыл бұрын

Modern heroes are paragons not heroes

Wow! Congrats! I've known the channel for 2 years now but didn't knew you guys were 4 years old! Thanks for the amazing material! I'm excited from what is yet to come! From one of your subscribers in Brazil!

I don't see how Logans character was any different at all. He was a violent loner who wanted to be left alone and does the right thing in the end. That's his character in every X-Men movie. The Old Man Logan comic does a much better job of changing his character, as well as giving him a better reason for wanting and choosing a life of non-violence.

@DarkAngelEU

6 жыл бұрын

True, even Clint Eastwood plays the same character over and over again. Just a loner you don't wanna fuck with. Kratos is just the same, he never changed. Luke actually did: he gave in to the Dark Side, just one moment, and forsakes himself to the outskirts of the Galaxy because he knows the weight of his mistake. With it, he destroys an entire legacy of the Jedi and leaves it to a new generation to be rebuilt. It rather begs the question, "Do people ever change?" than the badly argumented abstraction Wisecrack is trying to present in this video.

@NelsonStJames

6 жыл бұрын

True, with Logan and with Clint, what audiences are showing is that they want the characters that they love to finally be the characters they know. The one example of a post hero (Luke) is the one character that caused a lot of dissension among audiences because he became something else. Wisecrack is making the assumption that simply because these are the films and entertainment we are now getting that we are in some new age. In the 60's the culture "wanted" something different; they don't seem to want the dystopia that the media is trying to push now.

@DarkAngelEU

6 жыл бұрын

Except there is only dystopia? We're still living in the shadow of the 80's, a decade that started wars that were even more meaningless than Vietnam, wars fueled by a craving for wealth and implementing organs that controlled regions in favor of the West. Today, these organs are turning against us and those in power choose to ignore the past, only making things worse! The media institutions rather remake all those old shows than making something new just so they can cash in on your nostalgia. On all levels, political, media, social, arts, people are becoming alienated from the present. How is that not disturbing to you?

@tristanreimers423

6 жыл бұрын

So a dystopia is: War in the middle-east (which is a very tiny are), which is fueld by what most wars are fueled by Powers choosing to ignore the past (I honestly don't know what you're talking about, but all right) And media. Remaking shows/movies? wat.

@DarkAngelEU

6 жыл бұрын

Dystopia is a world that is falling apart. I could try and explain you everything about the Middle East but it would be alot easier for you to look those things up. In a nutshell Arabs are getting fucked with since the eighties for no other reason than selling fire arms, setting up terrorist cells and dictatorships that could afterwards be taken down just to sell even more fire arms whilst robbing these nations from their wealth. Obvious examples would be Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan but the same holds true for Lybia, Palestine (Israel started out as a British colony and still serves as a powerhouse for NATO), Iran (the US helped installing Ayatollah and his conservative islamic regime), Syria and alot of African nations. All these nations that were once "aided" by the US are now either fought against so the US can install "democracy" while simply pillaging the country from oil and forces them to adopt American banks. The thing is, we have the Internet now, people are getting informed. This empire will collapse, it's already happening. Europe is slowly moving away, finally deciding to become a proper autonomous nation without the support of NATO. Most of the countries I mentioned are anti-American and the rest of the world is slowly following. The US is already turning against itself, considering its citizens as enemies of state that need to be controlled. I don't know where you got your definition from, but a state that considers its own citizens a threat to the institution of power and therefor attempts to control them with identity politics, institutionalized racism, calling new technologies a mistake that should be avoided while using the same technology to affect their speech and world view, meaningless warfare, is very reminiscent of 1984 and from what I remember that book is about a dystopian society.. HMMMMM. The bad remakes are a sign of a culture that is dying. This happened in many countries that eventually had a revolution: Roman Empire, Belgium before it was Belgium, France, the Soviet Union. Of course cinéma didn't exist back then so those were theatre plays, ballet, music, you get my point. This is nothing new, it happened before dozens of times and it will happen again.

Kratos is a family man now BOYY

@rafaelalodio5116

6 жыл бұрын

Well he always were, until he murdered his family and became a death machine.

@Beatness121

6 жыл бұрын

Kratos is now top-tier daddy material

@crozraven

6 жыл бұрын

nopenopenope this is a problem with people that only played GoW 2018 ... He was always a family man since day one (GoW 1).

@sajjeel123

6 жыл бұрын

Croz Raven I've been playing gow since the first one, I know he had a family before. I also know why he's called the ghost of sparta and covered in ashes. Thanks

@MrJH101

6 жыл бұрын

People forget Kratos has always been a family man. That part of him has never changed, he’s just had a lot of time to calm down and try the whole family-man thing again. However, if some god ended up killing his child (or made him murder his family again), you can sure as hell believe he’d go back to being full of rage for another 3 games again. At least until all the gods were dead.

Excited to hear what's in store. Bring it!!!

Congrats Jared and the team on the all the awesome stuff you have coming up! Looking forward to it!

Kill bill is a good example of this

@Cyromantik

6 жыл бұрын

Shaun , I guess The Bride didn't make the cut 'cause she doesn't have a beard...

We don’t count Luke Skywalker becasue Sequel Luke is Disney, and especially Rian Johnson, bastardizing his entire character. But yes, Logan and Kratos have definitely become icons of the post-hero that we’re seeing more of nowadays. Rian Johnson shat on the Star Wars franchise’s chest and said “You’re welcome.”

I absolutely love all the upcoming things you guys work on,i love you

This is one of those channels where I watched 2 videos and immediately subscribed. I just knew you guys would be going far, and sure enough, here you are a few years later owning the internet.

Great Insight! Great vídeo!

**Reads title, looks at thumbnail** Yeah... they all have beards now.

Good Job! I am so excited what is to come.

I’d argue that Superman never was truly sure of right and wrong. It’s one of the biggest things he struggles with even going back to the original comics. He always FEELS like he’s in the right but he questions it’s constantly. That’s part of why Lois is so important to him- she reassures him that he is doing more good in the world than harm by being the Man of Steel.

I see it a little differently. Each of these characters are battered warriors, idealists filled with passion, strong beliefs, and a need to change their world. The grim reality of the worlds they face breaks them down, and tramples their will into the dirt. It takes from each hero the things they love, Kratos' wife, Logan's family and life, Luke's friends and his students, who are like his children. Disenchanted, they hide away from the world. They leave it behind them and find a place to hide. That is, until the next generation gives them hope, gives them purpose, and inspires them to rise up out of hiding and care for the fate of the world and what they love once again.

@shadowsoftheheart220

6 жыл бұрын

I honestly saw that growth in this manner as well. Each of these characters reflect the generation in which these are targeted at because the characters are going through the same sort of issues that people who have grown with the series are going through. For instance: God of War fans, the first game came out in 2005, a lot of the people who played are now adults. They've entered a new world, and are facing new challenges: be it parenthood or just adulthood. And in that world they have to come to terms with their pasts and become functional parts of society.

@neverpure20

5 жыл бұрын

@@shadowsoftheheart220 I think so. I think It's about groving up. But also about becoming more cynical and cold towards certain beliefs. In the past, "Year xxxx. Everything's changed." used to be a cool intro for a movie. Now everything changes every year. At this rate people don't have time to start believing in something. I'm curious how the next generations heroes are going to be like. Will they all be Deadpool? :D

Kratos = Hero? Yah sure, whatever you say wise guy

@alfa01spotivo

4 жыл бұрын

he was mostly justified

"Ah, so this is it what it feels like.." - manly tears drop down on my face. Every time.

More power to you man. This is amazing.

John wick falls into this category too

@UkuleleVillain

6 жыл бұрын

He always had a beard

@margarethmichelina5146

6 жыл бұрын

And Samurai Jack especially his last season

@brightdrake_9992

6 жыл бұрын

We don’t didn’t grow up with John Wick tho.

@boundbythecurve

6 жыл бұрын

that's a fair point. But I was more referring to the type of westerns that were being made. Not specifically characters or franchises that have received this kind of film/show adaptation.

Kratos already had a kid and a dead wife before GoW 4.

Finally someone who does more than complain about the Last Jedi! My best friend and I went to see Star Wars in the theater in spring of 1977. We were in our early teens and loved it! We were hooked like most Gen X kids. We grew up with Luke Skywalker. When return of the Jedi came out we took our high school sweethearts. My point is simply this. When Luke shows up all old and frustrated we totally understood why! He wasn’t a bad ass he was a tired ass! Tired of all the crap that life throws your way. My best friend and I went to see the last Jedi our kids are grown. We are military vets now. We’re both on our second marriages. We’re tired but we do the right thing in the end for our families and our nation. Millennials don’t get that yet! You’re young and still full of badassness! Twenty and thirty somethings wanted to see a bad ass Luke because that is where they are, but that’s not the stage of life the guy is in! The millennials saw the original trilogy on dvd and thought Luke was their age. But the truth is he was from the generation before. He had to grow up and that sucks but that’s life. As I looked at most of the postings I noticed that people commented on the obvious. The beards and such, but missed the point completely. It’s hard to relate to a life experience you haven’t had yet. The millennials will get there and see all this post hero stuff through older eyes

Very funny is whenever a jedi master fails at something, they run away and hide on some planet. Yoda: Failed to stop the Emperor, runs and hides in Degobah. Obi-Wan: Fails to save Anakin from becoming Darth Vader, runs and hides on Tatoonie Luke: Fails to kill Ben from some bad dream, runs and hides in where the first Jedi Temple is at.

@jcdf2

5 жыл бұрын

You make them sound like a pack of losers.

*Jared, can you please do a video about Xavier Renegade Angel?*

@ThatMetalFellow

6 жыл бұрын

jaime hernandez Drugs. It's sligthly less chaotic on drugs

I'd love to see some Devilman on this channel.

I'm really excited about your new shows. I'm sure they'll be amazing.

Excited to see the new shows you're working on. Wisecrack is one of the best channels on KZread.

The reason why the post hero storyline works for Logan and Kratos is because they had all the focus on them to flesh it out: Logan was the main character, the movie was named after him, the majority of the movie was focused on him. Kratos, literally the playable character for the game, the focus is on him. Because of this, the story of a hero past his prime who wanted to escape from his violent past or mythical heroics works. For Luke in the Last Jedi, I can see that Rian Johnson was attempting to do this as well but the problem is that Luke is not the focus of the story. The whole movie isn't dedicated to his story, he is only a small part of a larger story made up multiple leads. There simply wasn't enough screen time dedicated to his arc to flesh it out properly and make the pay off worth it. Honestly, if they had made a Star Wars story solo film about a post hero Luke being brought back into fold by Rey and that was the whole movie, that would probably work brilliantly.

@MrEffectfilms

5 жыл бұрын

Ya know ill agree that an entire film about just that would have been great but with the time they had I'm happy with what we got.

You forgot Samurai Jack, from a wise quiet man turned to be someone who's very depressed because he lost his sword and wants to kill himself until a girl come and change him to normal.

From a vicious vengeful warrior to a calm haunted father From a noble and heroic Jedi to a depressed and pessimistic hermit From a cocky badass to an ageing suicidal hero

I think what people fail to recognize with Luke is that it had been 30 years and people make mistakes. They change and develop new ideology. Luke had failed to restart the jedi order and blamed himself for the lost of Ben Solo. He carried those failures with him and refused to learn from them. He needed the help from Yoda and Rey to help remind him of the hero he used to be. In my opinion, it helps make Luke feel more human and relatable. As great as he is, he can fail too and that's the big theme of the movie.

can you please do something on the Grand Budapest Hotel?

Need some info cause not sure what "zeitguiest" (spelling?) means when it comes to philosophy

@HonestHappyHater

6 жыл бұрын

DudeAbides85 Zeitgeist - literally "the spirit of the times", means roughly the same as a theme, or set of characteristics in a certain period of time

@Dude_Abides

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@tekmeasiam

6 жыл бұрын

All of the smarter KZreadrs are working the Zeitgeist into their material because of Deadpool 2... Epic MealTime, several gamer/movie/gossip sites, news and auto review channels to name a few.

@redwallzyl

6 жыл бұрын

It's a German word literally time spirit.

@anannon8384

6 жыл бұрын

I prefer time ghost 👻, but yeah, that's the literal translations

8:25 I just loved this part about the myths. "The stories society tells itself, about itself"

10:13 wow ALL of these new shows sound amazing and exactly the content and subject matter I look for. Wish I discovered you guys 4 years ago!

Here's the thing, while Kratos and Logan went through a logical progression, Luke did not. Kratos was admittedly a murder machine, but he also attempted suicide at the end of 3 realizing his mistakes. Him becoming who he was in the 2018 version of God of War makes sense. Logan became the logical conclusion of someone who is always losing everything he cares about. Luke...Luke just became an idiot. The guy who redeemed Darth Vader is going to almost attempt to kill his nephew? That's completely illogical and inconsistent with the character. Luke was changed just for the sake of changing him and therefore it doesn't feel organic like Logan and Kratos do.

@coolio_catio

5 жыл бұрын

He made a mistake by thinking that and said he instantly regretted it, but the damage was already done. He is not some perfect embodiment of goodness like Star Wars fans make him out to be, he is a flawed character that evolved.

@ellieb.1231

5 жыл бұрын

Also, what would your explanation for why Luke was gone be? If he was in touch with the Force then he was a real ***hole letting the First Order rise like that, among other things. And if he wasn't in contact with the Force, then why? Just weakness? Someone else overpowering him? Anything like that and there's hardly a point getting him, and especially if he see captures or weakened then there's no reason to play games about telling people where he is. Rian Johnson gave us the literal best, the most true to character he could POSSIBLY be with Luke considering the set up about him in The Force Awakens. People wail about his like Johnson just changed Luke for NO REASON or something. It's irritating.

@locketom

5 жыл бұрын

@@ellieb.1231 Rian Johnson tried to subvert expectations with Luke's character change, he just did it through really lazy writing.

@Rand0mN0rwegianGuy

5 жыл бұрын

Ricky Lahey Lazy writing? Where, and why? You’ll need to elaborate on that one because that is a really poor response to the other guys’ arguments.

@vsGoliath96

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, exactly this! I've seen a lot of people argue that it makes sense for Luke to become an angry hermit after his actions because it's a logical progression, and they're right... for any other character but Luke. For 40 years, Luke Skywalker was a symbol of hope, optimism and freedom. His genuine love for his father helped redeem one of the most evil men in the entire Galaxy. If Rian Johnson believed that Luke fucking Skywalker would even consider killing his own nephew for a split second, instead of riding out into the galaxy at the head of an armada to face down Snoke personally, then he missed the point of the Original Trilogy entirely.

3:50 Red Dead Redemption. Come on. That one's so obvious! It even takes place in the Old West!

This is actually giving me ideas for interesting characters my players may meet in our D&D world

Brilliant analysis! Was wondering when it was going to be put together and posted but I didn’t expect this level of educational input

I don’t think it has anything to do with disingenuous towards myths. I think it’s just has to with people wanting to go back to those good days. Are society is afraid of growing old and changing. These characters are old and lost their way but there young sidekick shows them that the past isn’t behind and glory can be won today

@futurestoryteller

6 жыл бұрын

LOL! The farther down I go in the top comments the crazier this shit gets... this makes no fucking sense. Unforgiven, the central example, is not one extolling the glory days of a frontier lifestyle. William Munny is a hateful murderous lunatic. The young sidekick shows up and completely ruins his shot at redemption by asking him to re-adopt a lifestyle he left behind with the promise of being a white knight this time around, and he just end up being a hateful murderous lunatic again. _Literally lines in the movie:_ Little Bill: You'd be William Munny out of Wyoming, killer of women and children. Munny: That's right, I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walked or crawled at one point or another, and I'm here to kill you Little Bill... In _some_ fairness, I don't think this video is very well argued, or case established, but to take this away from it... smdh

It's 10 years after the financial crisis. Are we sure this isn't a response to something else? Not sure what though.

@deriznohappehquite

6 жыл бұрын

GREENSP0RE I think it’s just the superhero genre running its course. How else do you kill an antihero like Logan?

@futurestoryteller

6 жыл бұрын

We haven't recovered from that crisis. Ten years isn't a fucking millennium

@andrewhodge5572

6 жыл бұрын

Sometimes the reaction to an event as vague and substantial as a financial crisis is delayed, as those who were young during that time finally reach the point where their stories can reach a wider audience.

@GREENSP0RE

6 жыл бұрын

Andrew Hodge That's fair.

@herrschmidt412

6 жыл бұрын

I think more than the financial crisis is the increasing division in politics, meaning there is no longer a unified myth for Americans to believe in.

Thanks for the video, I'm new to your works but enjoying them so far so you've got another subscriber. I think Luke stands apart from the other two as he's the only one who doesn't return to violence when he's persuaded to get back out there and yet he still makes a powerful difference. That makes for true heroism in my eyes. Thanks for the thought-provoking content!

Wisecrack, your content is compelling 100% of the time. Thank you.