Little Finger would have betrayed Ned eventually.

@tavairushernandez4588

11 ай бұрын

That's why at the end the narrator of the short implies that Neddard know and will deal with him by then

@luke1397

11 ай бұрын

100% correct.

@mevgod2160

11 ай бұрын

@@tavairushernandez4588 “neddard” lmao

@bobfg3130

11 ай бұрын

Yes.

@matthewwilliams4065

11 ай бұрын

Little finger in who!?

This video is basically “what if Ned Stark wasn’t Ned Stark?”, the entire point of his character and an overarching theme of the series is that leading an honest and morally good life might not be the easiest choice but your legacy will last and be remembered (Tywin’s house crumbles after his death, meanwhile men are not only willing but happy to die to save Ned’s children in trouble)

@cormacoconnor7726

5 ай бұрын

This is actually a really sweet and positive way of looking at neds message I like it

@Deepak__Mehta

5 ай бұрын

Damn!! Never thought of it that way but yeah that's right. 👍🏻

@CollinMcLean

5 ай бұрын

Holy shit you're right...

@SometimesOriginal

5 ай бұрын

Neds a liar what is the weight of one lie to many. He lied to his wife for years to save John. So why not continue lying to save his actual children. He was stupid in the end, and it got him killed.

@803bucho

5 ай бұрын

@@SometimesOriginalwhen the lie is to accommodate your dying sisters wish, you make an exception

Ned’s critical mistake was thinking everyone else had the same code of honor as him.

@hassanhassan-os5oq

6 ай бұрын

That is a flat out lie

@thatcitrusfriend6234

6 ай бұрын

yeah because Cersei is known for following a code of honor...

@4plus20isHappy

6 ай бұрын

@@thatcitrusfriend6234 That was kind of my point.

@thatcitrusfriend6234

6 ай бұрын

@@4plus20isHappy Ned always knew Cersei wasn't trustworthy...so no, that wasn't your point. He never thought she would spare him.

@GaeaRage0798

6 ай бұрын

​@@thatcitrusfriend6234 He expected Cersei to take her children and leave before he could tell Robert the truth.

"Chaos is a ladder" - Remember these words ? - They showed that Litlefinger WANTED the war to start because it would kick off the chaos he so much wanted to create because only through that chaos he could ascend to power without it he was stuck. On top of that he said to Sansa " I want my enemies to be rational and predictable" - Ned had Honor which meant the Littlefinger could predict his actions and plan accordingly. If anything He used Ned as that predictable tool he knew his honor would not allow him to accept that deal and that would mean war he so much craved for.

@ucnguyenanh9414

5 ай бұрын

The plan he proposed to Ned was actually a controlled chaos. Start a more winable war against a more winable foe (Stannis) rather than multiple. Manipulate the least pollitical adept Regent (Ned) and therefore the king(Joffrey). It's the quickest way to win for Petyr Baelish.

@Nairobin

2 ай бұрын

Doesn’t that make the deal more enticing for him either way? Since if he declined it would allow him to climb the ladder of chaos that would come with his death, and on the other hand if he had taken the deal it would have made all of his enemies exceptionally predictable, Ned Stark especially. Not only that but Ned would be one of the people he’d be closest to. “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer!” So I think it was win for Littlefinger either way. He just wanted to know for sure which deal Ned was willing to take.

@TWHowl

Ай бұрын

Baelish didn’t need that war for chaos. All of life is chaos. This feels like show speculation, not the book, which is the real story the show followed.

@krzosu

Ай бұрын

@@TWHowl Oh he did - otherwise he would not be able to ascend - he needed the said chaos to remove certain characters because they were powerplayers that would hinder his ascent to power. You can tell that by how he acted when he was given his lorship as a reward for "dealing" with the said chaos and "loyal" service to the crown - so basically he created a mess to be the one to help solve it - to propel him upwards - exactly how he planned it.

Because it was his honor before all else. He didn't care if there was war. He only forgot his honor at the end to save Sansa by false confession. His love for his family was the only time he would forget his honor.

@megabyte01

11 ай бұрын

It is ironic that he Sansa is the one who accidentally helped Ned realize the truth about Joffery and accidentally helped Cersei prepare for Ned's move to call put Joffery as illegitimate

@MrBell-iq3sm

11 ай бұрын

If only he had had any love for the small folk.

@andreiroman1661

11 ай бұрын

so he was willing to incite a war and send his own men to fight and die rather than break his arbitrary code of conduct, that was itself based on tradition and the oprressive nature of the political system of the time. doesent seem very honorable to me.

@twistedinnocence8617

11 ай бұрын

@@MrBell-iq3sm the small folk don't matter to lords'

@MrBell-iq3sm

11 ай бұрын

@@twistedinnocence8617 That's a problem, but some cared in their own way. Tywin for example, he was feared and could be merciless, but the conditions of his people improved significantly under his reign in the Westerlands. When he received louder cheers than the King during the tourney at Lannisport, it was not because of fear, but genuine respect and love from small folk. I also think Stannis cared in a way.

Remember, Ned knew who the TRUE Heir was

@jeanpaulsinatra

11 ай бұрын

TBF how's he gonna manoeuvre Jon onto the throne. Even staunch Targ loyalists would find it a little far fetched that the guy who brought down the Targ dynasty has been sheltering the last sion of it.

@Shannon-vv6rr

10 ай бұрын

I dont know why, but i always forget this. I remember hes half Targ and Ned sheilds him but i often forget he knew Jon was literally the hier to the iron throne. Probs because he protected him and raised him as a regular Stark i guess and wouldnt want to ever endanger Jon. There's no way for Ned to put John on the throne nor a want, i believe. He wanted him safe in the North. Same reason Benjin told Jon to join the Nights Watch. Cause hes protected there from his heritage. Doesn't matter who mom and dad are if youre a Black youre nameless. But its cool to think Ned knew he was the literal hier. I believe Benjin knew too btw, 100%, as I believe Ned wouldnt let his brother live thinking his sister was raped and hurt, he would also have a motive to tell a trusted person incase Ned dies and cant protect Jon.. he couldnt tell Catelyn but i do believe he would tell Benjin. Benjin would keep the secret thats his sister and his nephew. Makes sense why Benjin seems to really take a love to Jon, more than the other Stark kids even. Thats the kid of his dead and beloved sister. Ned would knew Benjin would take that to the grave and protect Jon should Ned die.

@jameswarner261

9 ай бұрын

@@Shannon-vv6rrgreat take; never thought of this

@Shannon-vv6rr

9 ай бұрын

@@jameswarner261I believe with all my heart Benjin pushed Jon to join Night's Watch and has a special softspot for him because he knows who he is- the show's portrayal of Benjin towards Jon further solidified it for me

@Siunris

9 ай бұрын

the targaryen lost their right to the throne when they lost the rebellion, so that makes stannis the true heir to the iron throne by the right of conquest

The thing is you never win with little finger, that was probably another plan to further his own goals than help Ned

@zaidi3000

17 күн бұрын

Also I hate how people say that Ned could have done this. If he cared so much about having his children as heir to the thrones he could have been king himself. Everyone says that Ned just had to go up to the throne and sit on it. Instead he did the honorable thing which he would always do until his death.

Killing the Lord Paramount of the North for fun is the most stupid thing one can do. The Lannisters were extremely lucky they were not wiped off, but I personally think that the show is inclined pro Lannister. Ned was connected, his execution should have sparked 5 regions going against the Lannisters, namely the North, the Riverlands, the Vale, the Dorne and half of the Stormlands. The Reach and the other half of Stormlands would also not ally with the Lannisters, but would not ally with Stannis. But we see nothing like that happen.

@georgebrantley776

7 ай бұрын

Lysa Arryn was keeping the Value out of it, in part because she feared the Lannisters, and in part because she was Littlefingers puppet. Renly had the Stormlands, not Ned nor Stannis.

@Orneyrocks1609

7 ай бұрын

@@georgebrantley776 Stannis held the baratheon+the King's fleet and would hold control over a substantial amount of Baratheon bannerman, being older than renly. I agree Lysa was a puppet, but Blackfish, The Royces and the Waynwoods were all traditional honorable men, a lot of whom were childhood friends of ned. And they held the real power in the Vale, they knew Lysa was incompetent AF and should have revolted anyway, regardless of Ned's execution. If you murdered one of the greatest lords in cold blood when he was in service to you and a guest, most of the catholic world would excommunicate you and may even call for a crusade. But while GRRM draws inspiration from history everywhere else, he goes specifically against it here.

@georgebrantley776

7 ай бұрын

@@Orneyrocks1609 Though Stannis is older, around half (I forget exactly, but it was a substantial amount) of the Stormlands followed Renly instead, because Stannis was lord of dragonstone while Renly held the seat at Storms End; they also simply liked Renly more. This was a significant point of contention between the brothers in the show; I don't know about the books. And while it's true that the Royces and other vale lords should hold true power in the Vale based on historical example, in the show it seemed unclear that this was the case, given how easily Baelish was able to use Robyn to twist their arm (we can chalk this up to bad screenwriting). Nevertheless, Lady Arryn had insisted that the Vale stay out of the war, ostensibly to ensure the safety of Robyn, as she feared assassination attempts. Founded or not, this was not an unreasonable fear to have given the mystery (to her, and the public) around Bran's fall from the tower. Further, Ned was executed upon admission that he betrayed the crown by denying Jeffrey's birthright. While we know Ned to be the honest one here, legally his execution was not murder. This does make it politically more difficult for your supporters to urge war. Though we do see that eventually they did enter the fray on behalf of Sansa.

@OK-yy6qz

6 ай бұрын

No it's not. The most stupid thing one can do is trying to take over thr Throne without any kind of reliable backing,aka what Ned did. An execution was to be expected at that point and so was a revolution after Ned Spilled the Beans. Whether or not they killed Ned was almost irrelevant at that point. Sure Ned was connected but so was Tywin and the Lannisters. Regions wouldn't go against the crown that easily especially not for someone that apparently just tried to force a coup

@alejandromaldonado6159

3 ай бұрын

​@@Orneyrocks1609House Arryn valued honor as much as the Starks. The Vale would not usurp power from Lysa Arryn to fight for Ned Stark. Her word is law. Besides that, you're right that there should've been a massive revolt and crusade. Especially after the end of season 7 eith Cersei Lannister blowing up the Sept of Baelor with many powerful lords and ladies, the whole realm should've revolted and not recognize Tywin's daughter crowning herself. Season 7 should've been an easy walkthrough for Dany.

One word; integrity. It also why he gave cersi a warning instead of just surprising everyone in public where it couldn’t be hushed up.

@nightfallreviews1533

11 ай бұрын

No it was because he was an idiot

@kc3reo

11 ай бұрын

Fr this is like asking "why didn't palpatine broker a peace with the rebels and discuss methods to improve quality of life and equality across the galaxy" Like, maybe because it goes against their entire character lol? Also, Ned of all people knew Littlefinger could never be trusted.

@grainerburnie1980

10 ай бұрын

Wrong word. Amore appropriate one would be stupidity.

@TheKillzu

10 ай бұрын

@@kc3reo he literally trusted him with the overthrow of joffrey lol

@eldermillennial8330

9 ай бұрын

@@kc3reo Because that wouldn’t feed the power of the Dark Side. Palpatine wrote in the “Book Of Rage” that he was certain that he’d almost finally perfected the elusive thing that the Sith had always longed for, a SUSTAINABLE form of evil order that wouldn’t inevitably destroy itself. The hardest part was maintaining maximum possible fear with an absolute minimum amount of killing (because the dead contribute nothing to the Force). The Death Star was the Catalyst for this. Tarken was eager to use it several more times, but Palpatine had no intention of ever using it again on a high population planet once the Rebellion was defeated. Maybe he’d blow up a very sparsely populated criminal hideout planet once every few decades, fully televised galacticly, to keep the terror fresh, that’s it. Otherwise patrols and occasional maintenance tests on dead worlds. Control, while important, was secondary to farming fear.

Ned wasn't playing the game of "Thrones", dude was playing his the game of "The North"

@user-zq6zc4tg1c

8 ай бұрын

Game of Retards was the only game ned won

@ihatewhatisaw

6 ай бұрын

Dude got on the wrong server

@f-man3274

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, I always had a feeling that Ned refused being a hand initially and agreed only when Rob hardly insisted not just because he was of too high moral but also be a he realized that southern politics would be too complicated for him to survive

@theforce5191

3 ай бұрын

The game Ned played got him beheaded, lol.

@douglasmacneil4474

3 ай бұрын

​@@theforce5191 and yet made westeros a better place

Because Ned had honor, but Littlefinger had brains

@xxXXRAPXXxx

26 күн бұрын

At least in first seasons. Near the end no brains can be found anywhere.

@vebdaklu

20 күн бұрын

You do remember how Littlefinger died, right? Brains is not how I would put it.

@xxXXRAPXXxx

20 күн бұрын

@@vebdaklu Yes because the last few seasons made by people that just wanted to end it all asap to get that disney money is really conveying anything. I did not watch got but i watched the stupid parts of that show and at season 6+ it was most of the episodes anyway.

@jozefmasny8349

20 күн бұрын

He only died because of Bran's abilities. Otherwise, Sansa would have never found out.

@Darknimbus3

8 күн бұрын

@@vebdakluThe only reason Littlefinger died there is because Sansa managed to make a trap which completely caught him off guard.

Lol, people who think this was a solution are clueless. Baelish was never gonna help Ned, he literally started the conflict between Starks and Lannisters. There would be no 4 years because Lannisters wouldn't sit around and give Ned that much power, also Joffrey would never see Ned as a father and Baelish knew that. Ned would be backstabbed regardless because Littlefinger hates Starks and Tullys.

@jdee8407

2 ай бұрын

He was in love with Catelyn, so how can you say this?

@cheangizzz

2 ай бұрын

@jdee8407 he wasn't in love with her, he used to be and now he's just bitter and wants his revenge. Also, even if he was, do you really think you should trust a man who wants your wife? This is stupid, Baelish has no love for anyone, only desire to own and manipulate

@billqiu4692

Ай бұрын

Just because he was always gonna shank Ned from behind does not mean this was a bad plan. These two ideas are not mutually exclusive

@cheangizzz

Ай бұрын

@billqiu4692 allow me to elaborate, this plan was bad because it was NOT what Baelish had in mind. His idea was to start a war, destroy the STAB alliance and he did it. Ned's mistake was not leaving the capital sooner. When he decided to stay he was doomed. Baelish deal is a deal with the devil thing, there is no scenario in which you win.

@johnswain4992

17 күн бұрын

That's why Littlefinger is so clever. It seems like such a sound plan any wise person would follow but in reality Ned would be trying to balance on a house of cards with so many things that could go wrong. At that point Ned would be committed and Littlefinger could topple it easily.

Such a move would be too scummy. His honor would never allow it

@MrBell-iq3sm

11 ай бұрын

What some may call honor, others may call pride and self-righteousness. Lannister honor for example is defined by pragmatism, gratitude and putting family above anything else regardless of one's own feelings.

@toughmunths

11 ай бұрын

​@@MrBell-iq3smlannisters are nothing but prideful narcissists

@negligentdata8307

11 ай бұрын

It's scummy to stop a war?

@pkz175

11 ай бұрын

@@negligentdata8307I think something as simple as “wedding Sansa to Joffrey” was sickening enough for him to decline

@negligentdata8307

11 ай бұрын

@@pkz175 Oh, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Honorable men make poor politicians

@NihilistAlien

11 ай бұрын

That shit might turns me into an anarchist

@TheRusty

11 ай бұрын

So here's the thing; Eddard Stark ISN'T honorable. He's a prideful schmuck who fucks up constantly and excuses it by telling himself he "has more honor" than the people who call him out on it. That's his whole story arc, he's an arrogant, ignorant fool whose delusions of his own grand honor creates the worst possible outcomes for everyone around him and hte kingdom as a whole.

@manumudgal4988

11 ай бұрын

morals have no place in politics - Niccolo Marchiavelli

@alexjames7144

11 ай бұрын

​@@manumudgal4988tbf that's from the prince, a piece of work satirising how awful he thought principalities were and he used it to demonstrate how they can only be maintained with immoral actions

@owenleal

11 ай бұрын

Their morals and honour are what saved them in the end. The Starks have held their seat of power for so long because the North trusts their word. The Starks play the long game, a game that they measure in centuries worth of legacy rather than a few months or years. Their respect in the North is their leverage and is worth far more than any short term gains through playing politics in Kings Landing. To be seen using his children as pawns and scheming with Littlefinger would be to throw away thousands of years worth of respect.

Did you forget how quickly Joffrey unravelled?

Ned is too honorable he could never scheme.

The problems with the Stark's is their isolation. They are far away from anyone, who could threaten them. Their word in the North is the law, and this attitude leads to them making wrong decisions once they are removed from their position of security and dominance.

@remembergandhi1434

11 ай бұрын

The north never was save - why you think they are the oldest house - why you think they got 2 kingdoms after GOT? - it was there right desicion making, there moral.

@MrBell-iq3sm

11 ай бұрын

@@remembergandhi1434 House Stark had more troops than all the other northern houses. They would have to unite against them to stand a chance, and even then they would run the risk of being taken out by Stark forces before they could form a coherent force. Who posed a threat to house Stark? The Boltons were the second most powerful house, and they had to sit idle for hundreds of years because they were not strong enough to face off with Winterfell. In the South, however, other Kingdoms would try to expand their borders whenever they could.

@yelhsanosnhoj6602

11 ай бұрын

@@remembergandhi1434Sansa definitely won’t be queen in the North in the real storyline the show is just fanfiction especially the last 3 seasons

@midnightgod123

11 ай бұрын

Untrue. Robb and ned constantly made good ,practical and politically sound moves. Ned accepted Littlefingers help to his detriment and Robb was simply unlucky and was betrayed by the Boltons from the beginning

@MrBell-iq3sm

11 ай бұрын

@@midnightgod123 No. Not at all. Robb becoming King in the North insured his downfall, since any remaining party would fight him and food comes from the South during winter. Robb also destroyed his alliance with House Frey for a girl and he killed the head of house Karstark instead of imprisoning him, insuring that his troops stayed instead of walking home. His choice to give Roose Bolton control over half of his forces, because he was terrified of him, was also a very poor choice. Roose managed to kill off his allies while saving his own men. Robb released Theon. He trusted Theon, but never communicated that to him, leading to Theon embracing his old family when they attacked the North. Robb also failed to inform his uncle about his plan to trap Tywin leading to Tywin's arrival at King's Landing in the last minute. Ned on the other hand relied on people that manipulated him and didn't go through with Littlefinger's plan, yet he used him for the Goldcloaks even though Littlefinger had little to gain and everything to lose by making Stannis king. Ned also refused Renly's offer, which would have saved him.

Ned had no cunning and no patience for political games. He thinks in black and white, right and wrong. In his mind Stannis was the rightful heir and that was that. He foolishly thought that everyone would think the same.

@a.p.2018

11 ай бұрын

The dunning Kruger effect right here.

@alexterieur8813

11 ай бұрын

The world isnt actually led by the righteous, who woulda thunk it 😇

@matro2

11 ай бұрын

Which is stupid. Renly said it right, the rightful king didn't matter during the Rebellion, so it shouldn't have mattered then.

@franingegnieri1831

11 ай бұрын

Yes and couldn't believe why would someone think otherwise

@moritzl4024

11 ай бұрын

Stannis is the rightful King. All who are deny that are his foes. Bend the knee !

I‘m more surprised that he didn’t take Renlys offer or that later, Robb, Renly and Balon couldn’t ally up for one fckn month to beat the shit out of the Lannisters, outnumbering them more than two to one and attacking from multiple sides

@BenMedia7

3 ай бұрын

Robb and Renly should've just supported Stannis. Together, they could've beaten the Lannisters. (Balon would've never joined because he's an idiot).

@cheeseboi9951

3 ай бұрын

@@BenMedia7 yeah but Stannis was absolutely against allying up with anyone who didn’t see him as their king, so…

@Drew-po6ju

2 ай бұрын

@@cheeseboi9951if I’m not mistaken, Ned supported the idea that Stannis would be next in line to be king, considering Renly is the younger brother.

This what I love about this show. It’s never so much the script that dictates what happens. It’s the characters actions and choices and how it leads them there. It must be so hard to get a moment you want to happen planned out in this because you have to get there based off the character’s willingness.

Littlefinger knew before he even uttered those words that Ned would never have agreed, nor did he want him to.

@TiaguinhoMu

9 ай бұрын

^ this

@CarlJunior1111

9 ай бұрын

You are correct. One of the best things Ned could have done was agree to the plan, on the condition of a romantic candlelit dinner. Don't ask me how I know what I know.

Even if he did take the offer, this is Little finger, someone who almost always had a plan. If they fail or if they are 'found' out, Baelish would get off Scott free somehow. Why would he make that offer without making sure he wouldn't die. The only way he got caught in the show was because someone had omnipotent powers countering his divisive plans.

@tanman49

11 ай бұрын

And he shall find someway to undercut ned. He did it to the Lannisters. Showed he is for them, helped Joffrey to marry Margery, fought against stannis, got harren Hall and protector of the vale for it, and turned around and killed Joffrey and slowly eroding the Lannisters power and influence. And who’s power he can’t erode right away they are doing it themselves like cersi. So you are right 😂. THIS IS LITTLE FINGER WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. And he knows ned wouldn’t go along with poising Joffrey like grand mother tyrell. He would have killed ned somewhere along the way. Even gangsters and mobsters do it. It’s a part of life. Somebody won’t go along with a business deal or work with some one due to pride or an old grievance, then said individual gets killed by underlings. If said underlings love and respect the boss they set him up and get him sent to jail. You need to be brutal to work with little finger. Ned isn’t. He would have brushed ned aside one day.

@ckopen7192

11 ай бұрын

he got caught in the show because he overplayed his hand by trying to pin arya and sansa against eachother. it doesnt take omniscience to see thru that, all it would take is for arya and sansa to sit down and compare what peter has been telling them both. basically: he died in the show because for some reason the writers made him dumb enough to try pinning a stark against a stark.

@Argash317

11 ай бұрын

True. I just find he wouldn't put his poisonous words in Ned's ear unless he had a counter play or an interest in the outcome that he wanted. No one was going to know what he said to Ned short of Bran as he was usually quite careful with his betrayals

@ckopen7192

11 ай бұрын

@@Argash317 yeah, hes careful, but he does also make a lotta poor decisions when it comes to catlyn stark and the women of her family.

@Argash317

11 ай бұрын

@@ckopen7192 but this is an offer to his romantic rival. This is definitely a soon to be personal betrayal no matter what

Ned already knows jon snow is the true heir to the throne

Little finger practically told Ned to his face he was going to betray him

He suddenly remembered that he was Lawful Good. “It’s what my character would do”

@ksh2596

10 ай бұрын

Ned takes his alignment very seriously

As Prince Zuko would say, "MY HONOR!!!" That's why, according to Ned. 😅

@cobbler9113

11 ай бұрын

I shall quote Mass Effect. “Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honour matters?”

@OctopusWithNoFriends

11 ай бұрын

@@cobbler9113 My brother SPECTRE, fellow galactic hero... And friend. Lol, dude I freaking ❤️ Mass Effect!

@cobbler9113

11 ай бұрын

@@OctopusWithNoFriends Great minds think alike 👍

This would be such an awesome alternate universe story. The plot lines could get soooo good.

I need a what-if game of thrones show with this plot

This is a complete win-win for Littlefinger. It was obvious that Ned would refuse this offer and Baelish’s plans go ahead as planned, but if by some miracle Ned chooses to opt for this option then Baelish becomes his most trusted advisor and claims a position of extreme influence and can manipulate later events far easier

@kevinvildosola1949

5 ай бұрын

Ned would have just died terribly in this route too. If Littlefinger had gained this position and Ned’s trust it would be way too easy to take advantage of him again. Honestly it was just Joffrey who fucked things up, best plan was him at the Nights Watch, definitely eventually becoming the Lord Commander. And I can’t even imagine how easily he could’ve rallied the North against the white walkers.

@ucnguyenanh9414

5 ай бұрын

Who would suspect that the one (Ned-the Protector of the Realm) who pull the King(Joffrey)'s string was just another puppet? LF would have been rulling the Seven Kingdoms in the shadow had Ned agreed.

@glcsander

4 ай бұрын

Ned was married to the person little loved and couldn't get due to his status no matter what Ned was doomed the moment he left his turf, the rigid life of the north meant that honor and loyalty are your bond, Rob lost the north cause he went back on his honor and chose that girl, Jon kept his word to the wildlings even at the cost of his own life following Ned teaching and that bought him their loyalty for life.

@chaosh7040

4 ай бұрын

Rob wasn't honorable...he would have needed to deny Frey the marriage proposal to his daughter to be honorable...accepting that in the 1st place & then renigging on it isn't honorable... Frey actually had every right to go to war with him & kill the bride after that...his only crime was doing it to guests under his roof.

Ned was by no means smart enough to be as devious as Littlefinger. But he was smart enough to know that Littlefinger would eventually backstab him since he knew Baelish's ultimate goal was his wife. Lol

@ItsSpoggel

9 ай бұрын

yes and no. Honor is always the Starks biggest enemy

@MrTheWanz

9 ай бұрын

Daughter**

@NandR

9 ай бұрын

Baelish's ultimate goal was the throne. He considered her a side quest.

@LiberatedMind1

9 ай бұрын

He didn't know that, he was caught off guard when Little Finger paid the gold cloaks to aid Jeoffery and not him.

@johnny10grasp3

9 ай бұрын

​​@@MrTheWanzno Neds wife. I know this and I never read the books and didn't even watch all the episodes.

I reallyyyyy wanna see a what if scenario of a completely united Westeros vs dany vs white walkers. Basically following hero and villain tropes and such fun and epic but nearly as complex as the show

It’s time for a multiverse series where Bran travels to alternate realities 😂

Ned's honour was his undoing, he never would've gone with this

@carloszapata847

11 ай бұрын

I remember someone who said: "Eddard Stark lost the Game of Thrones because of his honor. Tywin Lannister lost the Game of Thrones because of his lack of honor."

@nicolasmartinez795

11 ай бұрын

@@carloszapata847 Tywin lost cause he was a shitty father. Had he actually been there for his family the Lannisters would have been unstoppable (until Dany pulls up). But yes, his style of rule was too harsh to ever have real allies that would fall on their sword if he commanded it. One ruled through love and the other fear

@madelinekimbro2440

9 ай бұрын

Did Ned lose? Really? Looks like his legacy were the ones running the show in the end...

Because that would have been dishonorable and unfair. Though, and I think this is important, Joffery turned out to be a monster, so I don't think wedding him to Sansa would have turned out well for Ned's own daughter. He sacrificed Lady at the Trident. He would have had to sacrifice Sansa just the same. Joffery or Cersei would have had her killed. Joffery as a psycho and Cersei because she fears a queen to take her place, and Sansa would have been the most obvious candidate for that queen. There's also the fact that while no one likes Stannis as a person, he's a formidable warrior and a fair man. He will not be your friend, but he may well be a lord worth following. You know what to expect from him (or at least you did before Melisandre entered the scene). Stannis doesn't need getting rid of. And Ned does not want to play the Game of Thrones. Starks melt when they go south of the neck.

@hi-ls6lt

11 ай бұрын

Unless they don’t stay there for long. Ala Cregan Stark.

@jenniferhanses

11 ай бұрын

@@hi-ls6lt That man had a job. Did his job, and got the h3ll out of there. He lived to be the Old Man in the North because he was too smart for that crap. I also think he probably did the right thing rather than just things that served his own interest.

@debbie4503

11 ай бұрын

Stannis burned his own daughter alive. Well, she was dead after he burned her. 😂 You get my point?

@jenniferhanses

11 ай бұрын

@@debbie4503 Have you read the books? Because it's pretty clear in the books that we never entirely meet the real Stannis because Melissandre has been messing with him by using him for spells. So we've never met the man that Ned would have known and who built a reputation for fairness and honor.

It won’t matter, in the book Stannis knew about Joffrey parentage before Ned and Stannis won’t let that slide

I think Bronn said it best when accused of not fighting with honor "No.... but he did", gesturing to the man he had just killed.

Stannis was the Heir, to side with Joffrey would be to betray his own principles.

@ArawnOfAnnwn

11 ай бұрын

Principles that led to a civil war...

@sidefack

11 ай бұрын

@@ArawnOfAnnwn Stannis has principles too and he would've declared war on the Iron throne with or without Ned ruling as Joffreys regent. Had Ned become regent he could've given Stannis the thrones without a war.

@yelhsanosnhoj6602

11 ай бұрын

@@sidefacko he wouldn’t because Ned wouldn’t have told him about Joffrey’s parentage so Stannis wouldn’t have cause to think he’s heir and there’d be some peace and maybe Joffrey would respect Ned as his dads bff unfortunately we don’t see any dynamic between them

@sidefack

11 ай бұрын

@@yelhsanosnhoj6602 Stannis was aware of Joffreys bastard birth which is why he fled to dragonstone after Jon Arryns death.

@ArdoBlueMoon

11 ай бұрын

​@@yelhsanosnhoj6602Stannis already knew. That's why he took Jon Arryn to look at Robert's bastards

He probably did not trust Littlefinger, for good reason. Plus I'd bet my money the moment the Lannisters consolidate power Ned would get "sick" and died while Littlefinger would be smiling by him.

Story begins: 10:30

Ned was an honorable man, he knew only Stannis as the rightful heir to the throne.

There’s often a terrible price to be paid for one’s honor.

every time i re-watch and get to this moment when he refuses the Baelish's offer, then later he refuses Renly's offer too, sadness and anger take over me! Why Ned, WHY?

@DngrDan

7 ай бұрын

In the end, he won! His house survived and his reputation was cleared when the truth was eventually revealed. Tywin spent his entire adult life torturing his children and using any underhanded tactic he could to ensure the legacy of his house was preserved. How ironic that despite all his efforts and sacrifices, he still couldn't achieve what Ned did just by being an honorable man.

@vinito19

5 ай бұрын

Because he knows who the actual heir is, Jon. That's the theory anyway.

@OzymandiasLvs

5 ай бұрын

​@@vinito19 we all know why, that "why" was rhetorical! :v it's because, he finally decided to betray his honor when he lied right before he died, just to try to save sansa and arya, and be seended to the Wall to live in the night watch, but didn't worked so well because joffrey is a son of bitch! The point is, if he was going to betray his honor, he could just as well had accepted Renly's idea and prevented Joffrey from becoming king...that's the sad part of all that plot! =/

@tylerrobbins8311

5 ай бұрын

​@@OzymandiasLvsexcept you missed out if he was to get to the wall he could tell Jon the truth. The vast majority of the houses would flock to the true heir over a Lanister usurper especially since Jon was a Stark as well ensuring the North behind him. Now factor that Jon was a young lad and unmarried there are a lot of houses who would flock to him particularly Dorn who hates the Lanisters. I mean you need to look at the context here.

Because he is a Honorable man and similar to his nephew he always done the right thing no matter the consequences

Ned was too straightforward, he was not a politician and did not think about the good of the state. He understood only cases of honor of the feudal nobility.

Ned would have met an accident very rapidly

@thenops8664

11 ай бұрын

what little finger asked sounded great but little finger is not to be trusted. The one great thing he would've done is just to flee kings landing. Return back to the north and make his stand from there.

@trianglemoebius

10 ай бұрын

I actually disagree. The one thing you can trust Littlefinger to do is always act in his own best interest. Littlefinger isn't a noble, he doesn't have any claims to the throne, and the fact that he's so slimy means he's always a bit short on allies. If the situation he'd described came to pass, it wouldn't be honour keeping him loyal to Ned, but a NEED for Ned to be around. Almost all of the alliances that work in GoT are those born out of both sides mutually needing the other one around. A lot of them fall apart when one side gets too cocky and loses whatever the other side needs from them, but Ned might actually have been in a position where what Littlefinger needed from him simply could not be taken away (by Littlefinger, I mean - not in general).

It’s called having morals.

@grilledleeks6514

10 ай бұрын

what good are morals if they put a sociopath that sacrificed his own daughter to satan on the throne AND get you and your family killed?

@LiberatedMind1

9 ай бұрын

Perverse morals.

Let's not forget about Melissandre and her belief that Stannis was the Azor Ahai, she was dangerous enough to do conjure shadows to kill Stannis foes, negate Stannis could mean also facing her magic.

First of all, it’s a scumbag move that would have gone against everything Ned stood for. Second of all, there’s no way Littlefinger wouldn’t have fucked him in someway down the road. Third of all, Renly wouldn’t go with the plan, he was already planning on revealing Jeffrey’s parentage and had the largest army at his back and would have eventually attacked Kings Landing. Fourthly, Stannis also had a considerable force and would have attacked Kings Landing before he would engage Renly (Dragonstone is like right off the coast of Kings Landing, the battle of the Blackwater would occur long before he would engage Renly’s forces) Furthermore, Ned isn’t stupid enough to think that he could in anyway have any real influence over Joffrey, his nature was already quite apparent at the time and Cersei and especially Tywin would never let Ned have any influence over him regardless, meaning that even if the Lannister regime in Kings Landing managed to defeat both Renly and Stannis, Cersei’s machinations, Jeffrey’s incompetence and Tywin’s brutality would be far to much for Ned to manage. In other words, Ned actually made the best decision, take the black and spare his children. He really didn’t have any other choice.

It has to be done because Ned’s death serves as one of the most important themes…. “Anybody can be killed” It doesn’t matter if you’re a hero or a villain in this world. Things are constantly going on around you that are out of your control. Just like the real world. That’s what makes it all so captivating and tense.

@nostalgicbliss5547

11 ай бұрын

Exactly. That's what game of thrones at its peak was all about. All the moving parts and how some things are just out of your control.

@nicolasmartinez795

11 ай бұрын

Yah and the theme of actions have consequences. Instead of the rubbish that was the later seasons where you could ride out against a whole cavalry and survive lol

Pushing Bran out the window was something Ned couldn’t forgive. He was never going to team up with them after that.

@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD

4 ай бұрын

Did he know that happened?

@Bonkatsu12

4 ай бұрын

@@MDMDMDMDMDMDMDMDMD Sorry you’re right, he didn’t know. I meant sending the Catspaw. As everyone assumed it was the Lannisters that did that.

@mountainsmakemehorny

2 ай бұрын

​@@Bonkatsu12 What do you mean? Joffrey sent the catspaw, the dagger belonged to the King. Even if Ned knew who sent the catspaw he wouldn't be able to do anything. There is a good reason why monarchs cannot be held guilty (law derives from them), especially in a feudal society

“Chaos is a ladder” 🪜

There should be a What if series for Game of Thrones. Here’s a million dollar idea

Because of Ned's only weakness, his honor .. he did the same when Robert wanned him to arrange Dany's assassination and he refused and resigned as hand of the king.

@gmvvv917

4 ай бұрын

Was about to type that but you've said it for me. I could easily write a whole essay on this but in short, agreed.

"There is no honor on a battlefield. There is nothing but unspeakable despair. Just a crime we call victory, paid for by the pain of the defeated. But humanity has never recognized this truth. And the reason is that, in every era, a dazzling hero has blinded the people with their legends, and kept them from seeing the evil of bloodshed. True human nature has not advanced a step beyond the Stone Age.” - Kiritsugu Emiya

@XRioteerXBoyX

11 ай бұрын

How right they are.

@uselesshero.official

11 ай бұрын

Wow never thought I'd see a fateverse quote in a game of thrones video lol.

@komradekupkek6676

11 ай бұрын

@@uselesshero.official well fate characters are soo quotable

@3numa3llis

11 ай бұрын

Great copy pasta

@coltonjohnson3062

11 ай бұрын

“Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer” Javik (Mass Effect)

Honor. And "seeing what honesty and honor brought you, i can see why i've met so few men with them in my life"...

*Little-Finger would've messed up the entire arrangement as soon as it served him to do so...*

Littlefinger was still in love with Catelyn and would have betrayed Ned at some point anyway; if not out of jealousy, then it would have been motivated out of greed for more power because Littlefinger loves to climb that ladder of chaos. He would’ve engineered a way to manipulate Ned into getting rid of Stannis for them and then got rid of Ned as well either during that feud or sometime afterwards. Then he could’ve tried seizing control as new Hand of the King, as well as offered his condolences to Catelyn who would have been a newly grieving widow that would be free for him to marry.

He knew about jon Who was the legal heir And was protecting his sisters son

@jeremykline6687

11 ай бұрын

So many layers! Also, by this point, there was no way Ned would trust Little Finger, right?

@jasonphoenix292

11 ай бұрын

What? Jon joined the Nights Watch. It ensured that he could never be a problem. “I shall take no lands and father no children”. And if he somehow managed to leave the Night Watch, he would be known as an oath breaker. He did not join Bealish as he considered it a lie and a blemish on his honour…and so the land bled for it.

@ninneadeanna

11 ай бұрын

@@jeremykline6687 his wife would have but i think after bran she also said not to trust any of them at court So yes stark trust no one at the court in rhe south He just wants to go home

@ninneadeanna

11 ай бұрын

@@jasonphoenix292 that would not have stoped Cersi shed have had him killed Stark was there because Roberts former hand was killed Stark had gotten a strange message about that death And even at the watch hed have been a threat. The grey council has power to break that bond if they deem it needed

@jedimasters1462

11 ай бұрын

​@@ninneadeannaNot to mention that his true name isn't Jon Snow. It could be used as a loophole in the vows.

Bro his name "Little Finger" makes so much sense to me how did i not realize this or even some of the characters in the series lol.

That would have been an ideal situation, if it was anyone else than Baeylish offering it.

Because that would require to sacrifice Sansa. Ned knew Joffrey was cruel and would have mistreated Sansa. He knew Cercei was petty and would also mistreat Sansa. He was not going to force her to go through that just so he could be in a more advantageous position.

@braziliankaiser8304

7 ай бұрын

Would either of them have been bold enough to do so with Ned as Lord Regent and having full Authority in King's Landing with the Goldcloaks, Riverlands, North and Vale by his side?

Ned was a cunningless Wolf raised by the Honor loving Vale-men. He lacked the true Wolf like cunning that the Starks before him must have had to become Kings in the North.

@AhmedHany-vl1lf

8 ай бұрын

Not cunning sheer brutality of killing allow others kings in the North houses to near extinction

Ned made the worst choice. If he chose blood, he should have just gone for it, not freaking notify the opponent

Stannis is “next in line” through the Baratheon line, but technically Jon is next in line for the targarion line and is related to the Baratheon’s as well. Sorry if I butchered the spellings lol

This is what I love about GRRMs writing. He crafts the storylines so well, and makes characters make decisions that create so many what ifs. It's amazing

@m.c.martin

11 ай бұрын

That’s what History is full of. What ifs

@domesticdragonwaffle

11 ай бұрын

Then why hasn't he finished the series if he's such a good writer? I'll answer it, he isn't. His fame comes from having no plan and just killing off fan favorites. It's been 12 years and we still have no clue when WoW will release, if ever. You look at every interview when its asked, he gets irritatable and dismisses it. He is the writing equivalent of an Ambulance chaser, doing whatever keeps him fame regardless of how many promises he fails on.

@keanancupido

11 ай бұрын

@@domesticdragonwaffle bruh stop hating and be positive that he'll get it done. We just need to wait

@domesticdragonwaffle

11 ай бұрын

@@keanancupido you're more likely to personally witness the second coming of Christ

@namingwayrunningway295

11 ай бұрын

​@@domesticdragonwaffleSo what? He doesn't need to finish the series to be a good writer. What argument are you making? That you like his books so much that you get all pissed because he doesn't release them at the pace you'd like to, therefore he isn't a good writer? He can take whatever he has of WoW and burn it all, if he wants. It's his work, not anyone else's.

Because four years is a long time to walk a spider's web with two of the nastiest spiders patrolling it

@fontageenterprise6268

10 ай бұрын

Genius comment. Recommend your favorite book

You can't blame Ned for being himself but we can blame Robert for bringing such a mature into the game.

-Why not? -So the movie can happen.

Ned knew Lord Baelish only wanted one thing. Ned's wife

Because Ned is an honest and honourable man. The only reason he confessed his “crimes” was to protect Sansa. The only thing that comes before honour and honesty is loyalty to his family.

@tjkong4381

4 ай бұрын

Ned died for one reason. To shock the audience that a “lead” died in the first season.

@Helle-Mia

4 ай бұрын

@@tjkong4381 keeping him alive would have been weird considering he also died in the first book.

One thing that I couldn’t stand about Ned was he let honor get in the way of making better decisions. He was kind of cocky about how honorable he was on top of that. Ned pretty much cut his own head off. He chose honor over his own wife , children , and chances of a better kingdom/realm. I would had taken little finger up on his offer , and after everything was said and done , I would have offed him , used his power in kings landing and the north to fight off Stanis , and pushed out the lannisters.

I think of Ned like an old politician who left Washington only to come back years later and not know how the rule of the land has changed. A relic of the past trying to maneuver in waters too deep for him.

Ned was too honorable to accept such a devious plan.

He didn't accept the offer, because Ned was a man of honor. The truth mattered to him. Robert was his good friend and deserved a true heir. He begins to act before Robert dies. After his death, he then sees his departed friends next of kin as the worthy heirs and his duty of honor and to his friend to see that line set right.

If Need had gone this route even if we assume that Little finger had no intention of betraying him (which I'm sure he did) I guarantee he would have had a plan to get rid of Ned if he felt threatened.

Ned Do dishonorable thing and save 1000s of lives from the War ❌ Do the right thing and let 1000s die in the War✅

Because Ned was the Man of Honor and he'd rather get executed than break his oath

Ned's "honor", as some may say, but it's his guilt, plain and simple. He couldn't allow himself to hold another secret, and rejected Littlefinger's plan because of it. After Lyanna, and Jon, one more lie/secret would have been one too many.

@fazediamond5671

10 ай бұрын

Yes

Ned was a man of honor and honesty! He knew Joffrey was a psychopath and had no right to the throne!

One word. Honour.

At least he got to see where his precious honour led him.

How Baelish died is definitely in my top ten

Ned was a man of honor, all these snaky schemes were against his nature, even if they seemed logical.

Ned didn't know now to play the game of thrones, and it serves as a plot device to show even the heroes would die if they don't learn it

He was too innocent and honourable to play the game of thrones.

You forgot Jon, he could have placed Jon on the throne, he knew who Jon’s father was, and they had witnesses too; the septas and wet nurses that helped deliver him, the septum that married Rhagar and Lyanna. Ned just fumbled with this.

@KobashifanSam

11 ай бұрын

Jon wouldve been a target of the Lannisters right off the bat. Plus Ned wouldve had to provide proof which he didnt have except for his word.

@hellsjamfleas

11 ай бұрын

At that time John was in the nights watch. He had renounced his right to inherit by doing so. There is also the likely scenario that nobody would believe such an unlikely story about a convenient heir. The inspiration is probably the history of the princes in the tower. During the wars of the roses in England, King Edward IV died. His sons were moved to the tower of London to prepare for the coronation of Edward V, his son. Instead, his brother Richard became King and the boys were never seen again, presumed dead. Richard was killed in battle by Henry Tudor, who then married the boys eldest sister Elizabeth. During Henry's reign at least two pretenders appeared claiming to be a surviving prince. They were never believed in England so didnt get support, but their aunt in Burgundy would swear their authenticity along with other foreign powers. But it doesn't matter, people only want to accept a new successor when they are desperate or believe it will being stability. In England they disregarded preists as corrupt and royals as scheming. John would have had to prove his worth to stand a chance of being king. It is also a death sentence to declare yourself King while another holds all the power, which is Henry Tudors story, do or die.

@mikespearwood3914

11 ай бұрын

@@hellsjamfleas The boys were most certainly killed by Henry Tudor's command.

But we wouldn't have gotten this damn fireyy and icy show 🥶🥶💥💥 , 'Gods ,this show was good '

If only Ned thought with his head instead of his heart. And if only little finger hadn’t thought with his little finger when he should have kept thinking with his head.

Ned was a man of honor

@jessp8238

11 ай бұрын

Honor is about saving face not integrity

@foliagedcarcass

10 ай бұрын

@@jessp8238no it’s about doing what is right. not what is easy or selfish. For example Ned keeps Jons mothers secret for his entire life all because his sister told him to protect him. Everyone hated Ned for having a “bastard” son Especially Cat He gave up his image to protect Jon the rightful king and heir

Ned's name may start with an N but he'd never do such a N move. He's not from Sothoryos.

@jejuanmurphy632

11 ай бұрын

The fuck ? Racist much ?

@condor2279

10 ай бұрын

chu sayin' bruh?

@johnpaullaizure7330

10 ай бұрын

@@condor2279 I'm sorry i don't speak jive, please ask your English teacher to explain to you as per what i am saying.

It’s so interesting to me just how much power Ned had in the brief moment after Robert passed. He could’ve placed anyone he wanted on that throne if he played his cards right.

"I did warn you not to trust me."

It’s hard to imagine Ned plotting against Stannis regardless of the circumstances

You couldn’t find a better example for the term, “Honorable to a fault”.

I just imagine Ned inviting Danerys to take the throne Her just walking in with her armies and dragons and no fight Meanwhile her helping against the white walkers too so one Tagaryan in the iron throne again and the other one as king of the free people

I find the "Joffry will see you as a second father" the most ridiculous thing Baelish could have said.

Ned Stark was not a politican nor a ruler, honor is not for politicians its a weakness that beilish took advantage of to betray Ned eventully

I just started to watch the show again hole yesterday. First season is still one of the best, I like the beginning of deanerys rulership, it’s so cool as she becomes the emperor she is later

Ned was too Honorable for it and he foolishly believed that others in the council would be just as Honorable as him to allow this

Honor, honesty above all, even if it's fatal.