Kind of a black and white comparison, using such a Plus tire trail bike. But consider comparing a XC-racer style 29er mountain bike. They have vastly lower rolling resistance, a bit racier aero riding position, and tire widths more similar to a gravel bike. Also can be extremely light weight too.

@jochenschmidt303

4 жыл бұрын

Please try 29x 2,35" Schwalbe G One Speed Tubeless (the fastest MTB tire at www.bicyclerollingresistance.com, a smaller handlebar (shoulder width) with barends like Ergon GP5 Biokork and maybe a lighter suspension fork and you will see, that this is the best compromise for the most use cases. But everyone should drive the bicycle, which he likes the most. Kind regards Jochen from Germany

@siffoine

4 жыл бұрын

100% For me this was very much "Doing it wrong on one kind of a bike is less fun than doing it right on another kind."

@JK-xp7pg

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Those two types of mtbs are completely different

@madcapper6

4 жыл бұрын

You're talking about like a Trek Superfly or a Cannondale Lefty F-Si with something like a 2.0 or 2.2 tire on it I'm guessing. I was kinda thinking the same thing, especially when he was talking about aerodynamics and headwinds toward the end of the ride. In addition to riding position, the bike itself affects aerodynamics, particularly with the fatter tires. I don't really know of any super light XC bikes though under around $1500. You get into the carbon fiber range and higher end components, then you're looking at some light weight around the low 20s but many of them I see in the mid to lower price ranges are still pushing 30 pounds.

@HOllyBOni

4 жыл бұрын

XC bikes are outdated and not cool anymore. XC bikes with drop bars and a rigid fork or maybe 40mm of front suspension tho? Damn, sounds hawt, I want one! 😁

I ride a Norco MTB for everything, including a week long 700 km tour on pavement last year. No that was not ideal but I ride a lot of gravel, backroads and trails so that bike is a Swiss Army Knife ride for me. I love your channel and everything you do, thanks.

@daveebert7747

2 жыл бұрын

@surfingyoutube It's a Norco Storm, a five year old hardball.

Since I got my gravel bike, I really miss the comfortable well controlled feeling of flat handlebars with bar ends. I want my mountain bike back !

@christocr

3 жыл бұрын

Because of the geometry of a gravel bike (at least the typical gravel bike), it is always going to be more twitchy handling and not as stable as a mountain bike (even an XC mountain bike). There are times I really appreciate the stability of my XC MTB, but also there are times I really like the agility of the gravel bike. There are always trade-offs with all styles of bikes. I will say that any time things get technical, I'm always going to prefer my XC MTB. It's just less stressful riding.

@bradsanders6954

2 жыл бұрын

They still sell em! I use super light bar ends on my XC bike and they really work well.

@aodh5966

2 жыл бұрын

I have a gravel bike, Cannondale Quick CX3. It's basically a MTB with thinner wheels. Less effort to pedal, but higher gears make it hard up steep hills, and doesn't handle as well. I am happy with the trade off, less handling but more speed and ease to pedal on flat surfaces

@CasperRc81

Жыл бұрын

@@aodh5966 I agree, for less resistance. I’ve also notice on top of what you said is weight drop. I have two bikes that weigh a difference of about 5Lbs. From each other. And it’s a real noticeable difference…obviously!

Russ, you just made our day! Mountain bikes are excellent gravel bikes if you don't have a dedicated gravel rig.

@pajander

2 жыл бұрын

Title: "Why Mountain Bikes Suck as Gravel Bikes" Video: "Well, they're pretty good actually.

@tmayberry7559

2 жыл бұрын

@@pajander o💯😀

That looks like a perfect ride for your Jones SWB. Thanks Russ for all your efforts.

I love this channel, every day it grows my hunger for riding! Thanks for keeping up such good content and frankly, I most of all value your honesty when stating "this is me" , "this is when it gets subjective", all that follows those spoilers is great input right there. I was about to sell my chromoly hardtail and now you've pretty much made me change my mind! So thanks, Russ!

I use xc style tires on my mtb. They have alot less rolling resistance.

@SurpriseMeJT

4 жыл бұрын

Heh, yeah remember the original Ritchey Speedmax?

Tired of “drop bar” always preceding “gravel bike.” Anything wrong with a flat bar or alt bar gravel bike? That might have been the perfect bike for this ride. Too bad the choice is always the drop bar bike vs something else.

@PathLessPedaledTV

4 жыл бұрын

Sure. Hybrids?

@benzzoy

4 жыл бұрын

@@carlhansen9512 Drop bars don't suck. It's incorrect (too low) handlebar height, making the "drop" part of drop bars essentially useless for all but smooth roads, that sucks.

@chrislukes9037

4 жыл бұрын

I'm about to set up some handlebars as a something approximating a "poor man's" VO Crazy Bar -- using some MTB flat bars with larger-than-usual sweepback (15 degrees, though I might have gone for 20 if I found it) and attaching some MTB-style bar end extensions *in-board* of the grips/brakes, nearer the stem. The thinking is that this would be great for a mixed terrain adventure ride like this -- use the forward extensions (an approximation of the hoods position on a drop bar) for the smoother sections, and switch to the flat bar hand position when you want more control for the sections where you'd want MTB-level handling. Obviously have to determine what type of frame/tires to use, but thinking I'd first put this on a rigid, old-school MTB.

@xbmarx

4 жыл бұрын

Me too. I'm really down on drop bars, and I currently don't have any on my bikes. I'm mostly running Moloko and Jones bars. Not sure if that expels me from the "gravel bike" club or not, but I really do not find drop bars useful on gravel.

@haexi1010

4 жыл бұрын

@@chrislukes9037 hi Chris. I am riding a CX bike with flat bars and SQLabs inner bar ends. It feels like riding 'on the hoods' yet on rocky descents or singletracks you got the advantage of wide bars.

I am in Wyoming and the verdict for me is I need two bikes, a hard tail mountain bike for two tracks and bookie roads, and for open plains with gravel and silt roads, a straight bar gravel bike. One bike/all road and trail doesn’t work for me. Nor does “under-biking” (grins)

@mrvwbug4423

4 жыл бұрын

I do the two bike thing as well, and am also in Wyoming. I have my hardtail for in town, gravel roads, easy trails and my full suspension for the more technical stuff. Though my hardtail usually just lives on my trainer and I use the full sus for everything else. I find the full sus just a little more comfortable overall, better riding position, and of course the full suspension takes out pretty much all the road vibration even on pavement.

I gotta be real with you Russ. I used to own two steel gravel bikes. I tried really hard to like gravel and just couldn't ever find an exuse/opportunity/reason to ever use them. Both bikes weighed 30 lbs, which is the same weight as my hardtail mountain bike and 5lbs heavier than my vintage rigid mountain bike. I started riding the vintage mountain bike on gravel roads and found that bike to be excellent both on road and on gravel roads in my area. I lost one mile per hour overall on my gravel route, but finished the rides less gassed in more comfort than on my gravel bikes.

@madcapper6

Жыл бұрын

Most gravel bikes weigh less than 25 pounds and at any given price point, they nearly always weigh less than hardtail mountain bikes.

@X85283

11 ай бұрын

@@madcapper6 ...and yet 5 lbs makes almost no actual difference in the real world especially for this type of riding.

@madcapper6

11 ай бұрын

@@X85283 Might be true but it depends on where the 5 pounds is coming from. If it's the wheels, it makes a massive difference and that's where I think a lot of the weight difference between mtb and gravel bikes come from. The wheels and tires, rotating weight. The rest comes from fork a lot of the time and the fact that gravel bikes are just shorter axle to axle. MTBs are generally built up a little more on the frame but mainly the thinner tires and rims is where it's at.

Love the videos! Looking forward to the review of the Timberjack, I am looking to purchase this exact model.

A few years ago I bought a Giant FastRoad, at that time promoted as a "flat bar road bike," because I've been 'broken & repaired' a few times too many and find drop bars uncomfortable. I've since converted it's Tiagra drive train to GRX 2x11, upgraded the scratchy OEM wheels to DT Swiss running 38mm tires, and voilá, I have a flat bar gravel bike, without the weight of a suspension fork, and with narrow bars and bar ends.

I sold my gravel bike and built up a kona unit steel 29er with a rigid fork. It does great on any terrain, if i want to tackle harder trails, i switch out the rigid fork to a suspension fork. I also have another wheelset with xc tires for all day riding and another wheelset with knobbier tires when riding technical trails. I do miss my gravel bike, but my 29er is a blast to ride. I have more saddle time on the steel rigid than my full squish enduro. Thanks for the awesome vids.

@brendonmarek2502

4 жыл бұрын

I did the same thing with the same bike. My Kona Unit is now my go to bike that gets a ton of miles on all types of terrain.

@michaljambor7772

4 жыл бұрын

Just bought a kona unit 2020. In hindsight, I feel like I should have considered Sutra LTD as well, since it is essentially a drop bar mountain bike.

@Alex_564

4 жыл бұрын

Thinking about selling my gravel bike & getting a set of 29er xc wheelset for for my rigid(27.5+) Bombtrack Beyond+.

I have had a hard tail a dual suspension and I ended up getting a giant revolt and I love it. The thing is there isn’t a right and wrong answer it’s just whatever your preference is. I have to admit there is something I just like so much more about gravel bikes and I do lots of road too in our routes.

I'd be interested to see how some "alt bars" fare when put on a Timberjack or on a traditional drop-bar gravel bike - Koga Denham, VO Crazy Bar, Surly Moloko, Jones Loop come to mind - Combining wide options with "narrow/aero" options.

Whoa! Nicely done. I like your tendency to understate things. Those production values are super-good. I wish you luck and I’ll tune in again.

Great review and open-mindedness. I had a mountain bike for a while and could definitely agree with the slog factor that comes with it. I have since moved to a gravel bike for various reasons~primarily road commute or trail/bike paths, the need of all the mounts and space in the frame for bags or water bottles, and the great desire for increased comfort of different hand positions with drop bars.

Considering a flat bar gravel/fitness bike for next year. At times I feel it is a totally great decision adding another “category “ bike to my fleet, other times I think I’m over thinking the hell out of it too much internet time can do that!! I have too be honest with myself and ask “how important are the subtle differences?” I have 2 specialized full suspension MTB’s one turbo EMTB, another non E mtb, both can lock out the shocks making them basically a rigid bike, both are relatively heavy, both have wide aggressive tires, both are incredible on dirt, both can ride on roads for miles in comfort. I also have a vintage steel frame hybrid bike with 700x35 multi use tires, comfortable flat bars and although it is heavy like steel frames are, it rides road and gravel pretty darn good……so why another bike? I don’t race, I’m a intermediate recreational rider and other people don’t seem to care what I ride they only focus on what they are on and as long as we all get along it’s all about the fun. I suppose the itch for the “perfect “ bike for the exact conditions of my ride is all about my love and desire for the most amazing experience I can have, even though rolling along a sweet trail/road/path in itself is what it is all about even if on a Huffy Walmart cruiser ( no offense intended), it’s my thinking that tells me I MUST HAVE! Understanding this my addiction to bike riding will still in the end win. The carbon framed “ideal” bike will be rationalized some how in a hundred different inner self dialogues until I spend X amount of hard earned dollars and then I will be setting my sights on the next biking must have as I continue my love affair with 2 wheels. It’s all good as long as no mortgage payments are sacrificed, no divorce lawyer is needed and I continue to be a better person to all as a healthy and happy bike enthusiast. We must pick our passions in life and feel gratitude along the way.

Recently asked myself these same questions on a new plus size hardtail, tubeless. Mixed conditions route on day rides it usually comes down to tires and ability to wind tuck for the smoother stretches. Liking Jones bars for their multiple hand positions. A less aggressive front tire will follow to balance rolling resistance. I slog therefore I am. The MTB is a great tool to mellow out the sketchy bits of rough terrain so overall makes for a more relaxed trip.

Good video, Russ! Having a Randonneuse, Gravel Bike and Hardtail Trail MTB (with light XC tires😉) I completley agree to your thoughts. Often times I feel even "overbiked" on my Kona Sutra LTD with 50mm G-Ones. Keep it up!👍

I think your reasoning is spot on! That being said, I'm curious what your thoughts are on considering a fully rigid mountain bike for gravel. I have a rigid Singlespeed Trek Superfly that I'm considering converting to a gravel bike by swapping to drop bars, putting skinner tires (2.1") on my 29" wheeset and adding a derailleur for some gearing.

@RicardoRocha-lg1xo

2 жыл бұрын

My buddy did that with a Superfly frame he had lying around. He had to put on a really stubby stem to compensate for the excessive 100mm reach of the handlebars he got, but the end result works. And it looks super cool!

@nathangregory7138

2 жыл бұрын

@@RicardoRocha-lg1xo It’s been a year since I posted that comment but felt compelled to follow up. I ended up selling the Superfly a couple months ago to make some room in the bike stable. Might be getting another SS in the future.

@RicardoRocha-lg1xo

2 жыл бұрын

@@nathangregory7138 it happens to all of us, I guess. N+1 seems to assume unlimited resources and living space 😅

Really good analysis. The grey area where an individual feels adventurous is different for each of us, just like a tent is more adventurous and fun than a house (but not everyone likes camping!). For me a hard tail instead of full suspension gives my mtb enough adventure on all roads!

I use my mountain bike as a city commuter and it works great on the crappy roads of Philadelphia.I swapped out the tires and added mirrors.

A rigid mtb would be ace for this kind of riding imo. I'm biased though that's what I ride. It's a really cheap and easy conversion for an old hard-tail too. You have to have a curtain attitude for it though when it comes to riding pavement. Under-biking on the road lol.

@myronallen3010

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah carbon forks on a mountain bike are the best. You can even add earo bars. No need for drops or hoods etc unless you really like them. Having said that, I've never ridden a 'gravel bike'.

@traincat2690

3 жыл бұрын

Thing is, underbiking on the road feels boring unlike underbiking in the trails.

@Max-xl3ml

3 жыл бұрын

@@traincat2690 To a certain extent yes, I really do not like riding my rigid mtb on the perfectly paved roady climbs in my area. But if your ride involves rough pavement some city riding or some more rolling roads it can be a lot of fun. I honestly ride more asphalt miles than I do dirt, I just spend more of that time hoping off curbs pumping divits in the road and getting the bike leaned over around corners. You kinda have to make your own fun.

@CB-zt6qs

2 жыл бұрын

In many cases one isn't any better than the other but it's a personal preference. I've seen dual suspension people bikepacking, I've seen classic touring bikes on 700x32 bikepacking. Really it's up to the rider and their comfort level but as we all age we start going for more comfort over getting banged up on a rigid.

@antred11

2 жыл бұрын

I don't really get how a rigid fork would be better at all. The minuscule weight difference argument seems a bit silly to me. Eat a bit less for a few weeks and lose a pound of body weight ... it'll more than make up for this negligible difference.

I ride a Salsa Fargo with 27.5 x 3.0 inch tires. It's technically a mountain bike, but has drop bars and its fully rigid. Works great for these types of mixed rides as it handles intermediate level singletrack and dirt roads great. Even does pretty darn good on pavement if you add some tire pressure. Wildly enough, air the tires down and it holds its own on winter fat bike trails as well, so its the ultimate quiver killer, as long as you are not into the hardcore ends of the MTB or road spectrum.

Nice video, I’ve been riding a rigid 29+ for a while now and love not having the extra weight of a suspension fork. I love headwinds, even in the upright position, because as a heavy rider, they don’t effect me as much. This gives me the advantage over little riders who get blown around all over the place lol.

I have a cyclocross and a 26” full suspension mtb, the latter being lighter. I agree with the “conclusions”. I do tricky singe tracks on both but totally different mindsets. The part that I detest more is to do long stretches of flat in the MTB, whereas with the other it’s kind of fine.

Edit: I didn't realize that the timberjack came with a 2.8" Vigilante High Grip on front. I would use (a skinnier version) of that tire for laps at the bike park. That's ~ 1200 grams of rotational, unsprung weight. For comparison, my 29x2.35" Mezcal's weigh a little over 700 grams. I run those things into all kinds of sketchy New Mexico rocks at relatively high speeds and they are just fine. I vote that you put a decent 29er wheelset on it with ~2.25" xc tires and see what you think. Timberjack is a cool bike, but plus rigs are not how I would go for gravel. On a mixed route with very little singletrack, my Epic full suspension is at least as fast/easy/fun as my Trek CrossRip LTD with tubeless G-Ones. There is such a huge range in mtbs now, I wonder if your review would shift if you compared using a mid-level 29er xc bike.

Interesting. I found this very helpful in comparing a mountain bike with a gravel bike for the type of terrain you were riding. I'm at the very beginning of learning about the various categories of bikes, tires, and terrain etc. before I narrow it down to which type of bike I think will be best suited to me.

Super interesting video, Russ. It spawns a question. Would your answer to this particular question change if the comparison were between a MTB loaded for long-distance touring and a drop handlebar gravel/tourer (tires no wider than 2") also fully loaded?

Have you tried a hybrid bike with front suspension I was amazed how well 32mm wide tyres coped off road although the tracks were firm with gravel and dirt but no mud

A 29er with a rigid fork would be a good option for me. I’ve never been able to get comfortable with drop bars and I like a more upright riding position. But that’s my opinion and everyone like what they like and that’s why there are lots of different options out there. I like the non competitive video aspect. So many people just want the fastest bikes out there but that’s not for me.

@kevinclark9176

2 жыл бұрын

Same here. I’m building up a bike like this now. I bought a 29er hardtail and just bought a set of 45mm gravel tires and a clamp-on aero bar. Next will be to swap the 100mm travel fork for a rigid.

Good review. The MTB does have a weight penalty as you note. The tire contact patch or footprint is another issue folks have to sort out. Where terrain is sandy and soft, a lower pressure tire with a greater footprint is often required and so that pushes the choice toward the MTB. If the trail 'tread' is firmer and the rocks are more in the gravel size than in the river rock size, then the gravel bike's 40 +- tire width is an advantage for rolling resistance. It the rider in moving on and off of surfaced roads then the gravel is a better choice. I have road, gravel, MTB and snow bikes and the gravel provides me with the greatest dynamic range for the region of the country where I live. Single track with drops, rocks and roots > MTB. Smooth single track through to surfaced roads > Gravel. Smooth roads > Road Bike. Soft beach sand and snow > snow bike. Any chance of ice > snow bike with studded tires. One last feature you may have reviewed and I have just missed are the stem shock absorbing technologies like the RedShift Stem. After I put that on my gravel bike I have not missed my MTB's front shock for single track without drops and rocks. Consider also a shock absorbing seat post. Keep it up!

I am going to be running tubeless on my ‘91 Stumpy this summer, and I think it will prove great as long as the ride isn’t too long. I definitely appreciate my drop bars on my A-C CS when I’m on the bike for hours at a time.

I think you’re right Russ. I was on a ride yesterday on my gravel bike which was roughly 50/50 road and easy but rough trails and got to think that the gravel bike is not the best option for the lumpy stuff but overall it’s the best solution, if I was going to ride on steeper tech or more prolonged rough dirt tracks then I’d go with the mountain bike. Cheers!

Loving the Missoula footage! I also ride a rigid mtb on trails that most folks use a full suspension bike. Underbiking helps build skills.

Really enjoyed this review Russ great explanation of what you personally like and dislike. I have a XC hardtail which I had some fast rolling Conti race king tyres on and fitted with Jones bars this was perfect for most situations except in winter in the UK where it gets very muddy. So I changed the bars to some wide rentahals fitted some chunky knobbies and the bike is great in the wet and mud but now absolutely horrible to ride on the road or hard pack or even gravel tracks which we have few of in the UK. 👍#staysafe

If you're on a budget, building up a rigid MTB style bike with alternative handlebars can be a great option for getting started with gravel. One of my favorite "gravel" bikes is an aluminum frame I found in a scrap pile. It checked all of the boxes, but I had no idea what it was originally supposed to be. It was like a blank canvas. Drop bars? Flat bars? 700c? 650b? Who knows? Built it up with a set of Surly Moloko bars, parts from the coop, and slapped some 700x42 tires in there and took it on a 420 mile mixed surface tour around Vermont. Ride whatever is fun for you!

I am amazed -- and impressed--with the variety of ideas and subjects that you bring to non-competitive bicycling videos. Not one of your videos I have I yet to watch, that I didn’t come away with a new idea or thought or suggestion at making this “Peter pan-never-grow-old sport”...just a bit more fun. And I’m 65. My MTB is a Chumba Stella ti.....with a Dynamo forward and Rohloff gearing. It was a gift to myself, when I retired.....and I love that bike. But recently, I’ve noticed while I have the backroads and technical trails covered....I do indeed miss drop bar riding on gravel/dirt less technical riding. And since I don’t heal as quick as I used to, I have strayed away from the “real challenging” (i.e. SCARY) technical stuff....and tend to enjoy Forest Service roads much more. Great video, amigo! My personal mantra? Second star to the right!

Cool to see we have a timberjack review on the way. Is there a possibility of getting a stormchaser review in also?

For the route that you showed here, I would definitely choose a gravel bike. In the PNW, the trails are way more technical (at least the one's I find myself on) and have enjoyed using a hard tail over my gravel bike on them

Totally agree Russ, I have the same (subjective) impression. ;-) Also: like the new camera set-up in your room.

I’d love to see a vintage Specialized or Bridgestone MTB build. 26” isn’t that much smaller than 650b and there are some good tire options. If you size down you can do a drop bar build or don’t and do a Jones bar. Depending on the model, the geo is close to today’s gravel bikes.

@RidingEasttoWest

4 жыл бұрын

They had an early '90s Specialized Rock Hopper built up with drop bars an down-tube shifters mounted up by the headset some how at Re-Cycled Cycles in Fort Collins CO a while back. I thought it was one of the cooler bikes in the shop. The price was good too but I already own 6 bikes so I took a pass.

@martinkrautter8325

4 жыл бұрын

Most vintage 26" MTBs have very very long Top tubes combined with low stack height which makes it quite difficult to find a sensible riding position with drop bars.

@robertcoates2752

4 жыл бұрын

@@martinkrautter8325 Yeah I currently have an old 26in built into a gravel bike and to get the bars high enough I had to run a massively tall quill stem adapter stem. It was great for showing me another type of riding beyond mountain biking for super cheap but I am collecting parts for a true gravel bike build.

@mark_e82

4 жыл бұрын

Martin Krautter Velo Orange makes A very tall quill stem with a removable faceplate. This will get you a comfortable geo you need and allow you to put something like a Jones bar on it

I agree on the fun factor of under biking. I take a flat bar rigid bike on Jeep trails in KY (clay, rocks, sandy bits) with pathfinder pro 38c’s on it and have an absolute ball. When heading back on the faster rolling tires I am grateful for having them

After 30 years of mountain biking I just fell out of love with flat bars. As I got older and a sense of my own fragility kicked in, my mountain bike trips took me on easier and easier terrain until I found myself often over-biked on an MTB. Enter the gravel bike. Any bike with knobby tyres will suck on tarmac but an MTB adds to the misery because of aerodynamics, particularly in a headwind, as Russ discovered. I use an aerobar for bikepacking for that very reason. The weight difference, however, beween a gravel bike and an MTB is minor in the real world in my opinion and anyway a top-drawer MTB will weigh less than a nasty gravel bike. I also prefer the weight distribution of the gravel bike and of course the different hand positions offered by drop bars. Definitely agree that underbiking can be fun, much better than overbiking, which is often unchallenging.

@walkwithmetravel3596

3 жыл бұрын

Unless you are driving your bike for riding totally rutted singletrack like in Moab, UT or just bombing down ski resorts in the summer, riding a gravel-type bike from your house and exploring is super satisfying.

Don't forget to lock that suspension when on flat roads :) If you're about to choose a hardtail that will double as gravel bike, make sure you get one with suspension you can lock a 100% (make it completely stiff) for excellent dual usage!

I have the 2019 Timberjack and a Marin Gravel bike love both .

I ride the gravel roads in Vermont-lots of really steep rough sections where the mountain bike really shines. Just don't understand why it is so hard to get truly low gearing on a stock gravel bike.

@sammyseagull

4 жыл бұрын

because the same guys that made road bikes now make gravel bikes and they are still peddling that ridiculous racer image to the masses

@mrvwbug4423

4 жыл бұрын

The MTB world is getting a little crazy too. The massive pie plate cassettes have to have a specific setup to work properly. Most bike manufacturers are lazy and stick 30t chainrings on every 1x MTB. 30t chainring with 50t cassette is barely usable on a 27.5 wheel, works better on 29ers. You really want a 32t or even 34t on a particularly light bike with those massive cassettes.

@christocr

3 жыл бұрын

This is one thing that has driven me nuts about gravel bikes. Putting compact cranksets and standard road cassettes on gravel bikes is just plain STUPID (unless your bike is going to be ridden on relatively flat ground always). The first thing I had to do with my gravel bike when I got it is modify the drivetrain--new crank/chanrings and new cassette/derailleur. The bike was worthless to me with the stock drivetrain. If I want a road bike, that's what I would have bought. So, yes, STUPID what most companies use for a drivetrain on their gravel bike offerings... although there are a few companies that get it (Salsa, for one).

If you're doing a lot of mixed riding with your MTB, and don't want to change out tires, I suggest maxxis ardent 2.2". They're pretty good for everything, and you can inflate them according to what you're riding.

Great video. The question seems to be where and when do you want to sacrifice? On rocks or on pavement. The gravel bike is a compromise by design, not a full-on mtb, not a roadie. The rider has to be truthful answering what % will be smooth or rough, gravel lets you strike a balance.

@bradsanders6954

2 жыл бұрын

All true. And gravel varies to a huge degree.....some gravel can turn into 20 miles of bonkers washboard, not fun with no suspension......some gravel can be done with a 16lb roadbike,....Ive ridden miles of sharp rocks after being told it was a gravel bike ride.......and really wished I had my XC bike......gravel is not just "gravel".

I really appreciated this video because I am personally weighing whether I want a gravel bike (my first), or a mountain bike, for riding off road. At 64 yrs. old, I’m definitely not considering single track cycling, with all the technical mastery that entails; I just want the capability of riding fire roads and such. You showed me how, compared to a mtn. bike, a gravel bike is more than up to the task. Moreover, your video clearly demonstrates the advantages of having a drop bar, road-style bike when getting to/from the trail via PAVED roads: there’s no comparison. Clearly, a gravel bike will likely meet my personal needs much better. So, THANK YOU! (Incidentally, I was just re-watching your videos from a couple years back where you reviewed the All City Cosmic Stallion and the Breezer Doppler Team bikes, and I enjoyed-and learned a lot-from those, as well. ALSO, I appreciate your narration throughout: free of the frustrating “ums” and other grammatical tics that make more amateurish KZread content such a grind to watch.) Keep up the excellent work!

I don't know how is stumbled onto this channel. Boy! I'm glad I did. I've been riding MTB since '87(?), and I've ridden all sorts of terrain on it. Honestly I rode 'off road' in the woods near my house since the the mid-70s on a bike designed to be a road bike. I have a friend that lives out in the Flint Hills where the Dirty Kanza takes place and all I've ever ridden gravel on is MTB (29ers w/ Fast Traks/SB8/Weirwolf). I never felt like I should have a specialty bike for riding out there. I've ridden in the DK once; it's too much of "a thing" for me to really want to do, but I like the challenge of the hills, and the beauty and purity of the ride. I forgot to mention that I was an early adopter of carbon forks, and I've never owned a bike with any sort of suspension. I can imagine riding gravel with a suspension fork. I am glad to see the varying opinions on drop bars. I've never felt like I needed them, but I've been toying with the idea of trying them (I watched the video about the microshift drivetrain, so good work being an influencer). The idea of riding drop bars on any of my MTB seems odd, but when I think about it, that's how I really started riding off-road. If I did it as a grade-schooler, I don't know why I couldn't try it now.

You really stepped up your Voice Over quality in this one! nice

I’d use my Jones LWB. Normally ride 29x3” XR2s but have a set of wheels set up with Vittoria Terrenos in 29x2.1 But with that chunky double track probably stick with 29x3

@grahammiddleton8447

4 жыл бұрын

Me too, although I am using Duro Crux 29x3.25 floating over everything!

@cassysamel3914

4 жыл бұрын

Which terrenos are you using? I just got the terreno dry 27.5x1.75 to fit in my rear for singletrack. Im hoping it'll be a good option, since it's the widest tire that somewhat resembles MTB tread patterns that I can fit on the frame.

@KowalskiVanishing_Point

4 жыл бұрын

I'm riding Maxxis Hookworm 29 x 2.5" on my Salsa Fargo. Did a couple hundred mile tour on rough backroads and trails last October and another on paved roads last summer. Things are bulletproof. Nice balance of just enough grip and lower rolling resistance.

@timfitzpatrick1924

4 жыл бұрын

@@cassysamel3914 29x2.25 G2.0 XC/Race, so the more smooth rolling one for pavement.

Use both MTB (29er) and Gravel/Cross bikes for long gravel rides, if there are significant technical rocky descents then front suspension makes the ride more comfortable - but must be able to lock out for climbs. On the other hand more climbing, gravel descents and really long distances I would recommend working on skills and (a lighter) riding gravel bike (drop or other bar). I also use H-bars which allow leaning into a more aero position (and give more hand positions for long rides)

There is one bike that suit for this kind of Terrain. Use the Hybrid Bike, the Dual sports like (TREK DS4). the DS has he suspension and lock out, what you just need to do is replace the factory tires into something like Gravel Bike tires.

@timboslice45

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, my 2015 DS 8.5 with 700x38 Specialized Sawtooths is the perfect gravel bike, imo.

Like many others, I have considered putting drop bars and a road group set on my old Mountain bike. It may be a bit slower, but doing a conversion is so much cheaper than purchasing yet another complete bike. Gravel Bikes are still and new thing and there are not too many used ones floating around these days. Holding out for another Black Friday Sale for the Poseidon X.

love your work, Russ

Great video. Fairly new to biking and a good friend has loaned me three high end carbon bikes to compare...a cyclocross bike, a 29’er hardtail MTB and a full-on dual suspension 27.5 MTB. Love the cyclocross bike. Was also loving the 27.5 until I crashed my brains out riding it this morning. However...the take away is that there’s no substitute for riding them all in the places you usually ride before making your decision. It’s a deeply subjective and personal call and you can’t just do it using online specs or brochures.

My experience has matched yours. I started as a mountain biker and I have an aggressive hardtail (Ragley Big Wig). While I love the bike cause it is fun on all sorts of trails and can pedal decently on pavement to the trails and on gravel (even did a gravel bike packing trip on it) if I am doing pure gravel with road mixed in, I'd rather have a gravel or all road bike particularly if I am going any distance. The weight of the a Fox 34 + dropper post + 4 pot calipers + 29x2.5 Minion tires is noticeable as is the rolling resistance. I currently have a old 90s 26in MTB converted to drop bars as a super cheap gravel bike to see if I would like it but I am currently collecting parts for a gravel bike built. The big thing for me with converting an old 26in to gravel bike was I had to run a massively tall quill stem converter to get the bars high enough for comfort (which looks ugly), the tire (and rim if run rim brakes) choices suck compared to other sizes and I had to run a very short stem that makes it extremely twitchy. It is all personal choice but I have no interest in XC hardtails for mountain biking and using a XC mountain bike for only gravel seems weird cause bar choice for multiple hand positions becomes somewhat limited so a gravel bike makes sense as a second (well in my case third bike cause freestyle BMX) for me.

im a casual rider trying to get back into mtb. found a salsa rangefinder on sale. Would it be a good pick up to ride casual around the neighborhood and occasionally on trails?

This test would have been way more interesting if the mtb actually had a chance by having similar tires on it as your gravel bike. I think you're underestimating the impact of tire choice and instead you mention weight a lot even when you rode the flat section which is kinda silly tbh. Your position on the mtb is very upright which it just doesn't have to be.

@PathLessPedaledTV

4 жыл бұрын

Prob. with that is with the gravel tire I would normally run would drop the height of the bike considerably and probably also make the handling weird.

I would argue that by far the biggest difference you will FEEL across a mountain and gravel bike is going to be the tires. This plus tire MTB could only ever feel sluggish on gravel, but it certainly would have confidence inspiring grip I'm sure. My solution is not to have two bikes (Mountain and Gravel), but to have two wheelsets for my XC/Trail (and now gravel) bike. I built it into a mullet with 700c up front and 650c in the rear, swapped the rear hubs to both 650s and the fronts to the 700s, and put on wildly different tires. Super hard, fast-rolling XC tires (2.25" Aspen front 2.1" Crossmark rear) on one allows me to ride it on hardpack trails and gravel, big knobby (2.3" DHF and 2.4" Dissector) trail tires make it a better mountain rig. A light (30 MM stanchion Manitou Markhor that actually came off a high-end Salsa Timberjack) Air fork with lockout gives me a great blend of capability and weight out front too. I love drop bars on my road bike/distance commuter, but the wide flat bars (mine are cut to 740mm so they aren't massive by modern standards) are so confidence inspiring on everything outside flat asphalt where road bikes live. To each their own, always, but this is mine and I have a blast. Happy trails.

I use full suspension, 27.5" MTB for both singletrack/trail and gravel riding and use 2 different whelsets; 2.25" or 2.4 with 11-46 casette for singletracks and 2nd lightweight wheelset with 2.1 semi-sliks and 10-42 casette for gravel rides. Even in gravel setup the bike is not light (about 13kg), and yes, it is a bit sluggish on smooth gravel/tarmac roads, and at about 35km/h I start to overspin, but stil a lot fun (and comfort). I wouldn't mind having a gravel bike, but MTB with 2 wheelsets is really a great option for an allrouder bike. If you have only 1 bike, MTB (especially on semi slicks) is much better on gravel than Gravel bike on singletracks/trails.

What would your thoughts on a MTB bike with alternative bars. Like the Surly Corner Bars? To give some of that gravel feel.

@PathLessPedaledTV

Жыл бұрын

Corner bars are a compromise. Wouldn’t use them long term.

I bought a mtb (29x2.2) and a few months later a drop bar gravel bike (700x40c, my first ever drop bar bike). Love them both but I have done ~350km on the mtb and ~2000km on the gravel bike. That says it all, really. For me the mtb is great for technical single track and the gravel bike is great for everything else.

@mark-anthonykroezen7335

2 жыл бұрын

I have a 29×2.30

Thanks for the good insight on this. I just recently converted my old mountain bike to a 1x11 , new fork, dropper post and breaks. I’m thinking of converting it again. I want a more touring gravel type of bike. So I was thinking of putting drop bars and road bike hydraulic break levers on it...only problem is hydraulic road bike levers are pricy. I’m running all Shimano and have watched videos of people shifting MTB gearing with road bike leavers along with hydraulic disk breaks.....so am I crazy to try this? Any thoughts or ideas on other 3rd party levers that could work with Shimano? I’m down in the Bitterroot, nice to see montana trails on KZread. Cheers!

@PathLessPedaledTV

3 жыл бұрын

Check out our Cave of Bad ideas vids. It is all about using mtb gearing with road levers.

Fantastic video as always. You are a master of the form! Thank you A thought....Weight doesn't matter in stead state riding, even climbing, so that's a non issue. The real issue is those massive heavy tires that suck the fun out of every pedal stroke. Do this same ride on some Continental Speed Kings, and your conclusions will be very different. Ive been riding for nearly 50 years now, have ridden road and mountain bikes, a LOT. Tires and geometry are everything. I went from 2.3inch tires on my XC bike to 1.5 inch cross tires....the difference was night and day, especially on road, including gravel. Get some 500gram 2.2 XC semi slicks and FEEL the difference. I promise, night and day difference! It'll also make the Mtb feel more "underbiked" when off road. More fun generally. ....As for Aero...get those fore arms on the bars, Son! Ghetto aero bars are as old as mountain biking.!

Very timely for me as I have a Specialized Fuse with 650B Purgatory tires. They are very chunky and I was thinking of putting over tyres in it so I could have less rolling resistance on gravel roads that I have a lot of in the area I live. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Apart from the "masochistic" adventure/thrill of hey I can ride this rough stuff on skinny tyres I am inclined to think the supple life would be best served by XC MTB 29er - short travel suspension and hey if you like drop-bars fit a set of drop bars. I suspect it will ultimately head this way. Without favouring any brand as a starting point have a look at the niner MCR or even the Trek Supercaliber. They are yet to have a bunch of mounting lugs, but already have "mullet gearing" - just fit drop bars (no need with the niner). A project for you?

@PathLessPedaledTV

4 жыл бұрын

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say I'm pretty meh on the idea of full suspension gravel bike. Its too much bike for a road IMO. At that point I'd rather just ride a mountain bike on trails.

@bradsanders6954

2 жыл бұрын

@@PathLessPedaledTV "The road"...the whole idea is to not be on the paved road....the pavement parts are just to get to the gravel parts and avoiding the pave is even better.

Glad to have found your channel. I'm a cyclist that's 100% non competitive. I like to ride around towns or trails alone or in groups and camp. Cheers!

Totally agree, underbiking is so dang fun!! This looks like an excellent loop!

Goodness gracious! I'm still looking for the one gravel bike to rule them all, even after watching this video. I ride a rigid 29 Plus bike for excursions 95+% off pavement, and a 29er gravel bike (700x40c max) for mixed surfaces, but now it turns out that I need something in between.

Fully loaded bikepacking is a small percentage of my total riding so it's a 120mm dually mtb for me. I travel light so the reduced storage capacity doesn't hamper me too much and suspension lockouts help with efficiency.

For more gravel and asphalt bases roads, i take a 90s mountain bike with the Michelin Country Rock tires: Very low rolling resistance, light aero position and narrow handlebar. With rocks on the route, we have this "underbiking". For very long tours in the mountains or wet fireroads and smaller trails, i take the full-suspension trailbike with Schwalbe Noby Nic: More rolling resistance, but more comfortable position and very plush ride.

I ride a fairly standard (for the time) early 90s 3x7 all steel rigid MTB on the kind of tracks featured here. Pretty similar geometry to a gravel bike. Use raised, swept back bars (can't get on with drop bars). Have no probs riding, even in the wind. I just change my thinking. The slog is the challenge. The quest is the reward.

@WeMakeLaw

2 жыл бұрын

Same. Have you tried Schwalbe Supermoto X or Schwalbe Pick-Up (26" 2,4") tires? Like riding on pillows... and with a downhill innertube, basically bulletproof.

@gerryedwards9738

2 жыл бұрын

@@WeMakeLaw I ride 26" 2.25 Schwalbe Smart Sam plus tyres. I use my bike for everything ( commute, shop, adventures - don't use cars), so the tyres have to be excellent all rounders. Have been thinking of trying to squeeze some 2.3s in there, but don't think I'll have enough safe clearance. I adjust the tyre pressure when I'm out to suit the terrain. Some say it's a faff, but literally 30 secs. Good to hear 90s steel is out there, still doing it! 🚴

Simply add a pair of aero bars to your your mtn bike and you get the perfect position to ride into a head wind. The bonus is that it adds great attachments points for bikepacking. My wife and I ride our fat bikes this way for bikepacking and love as it is also a most comfortable riding position and with the tire pressure changes to smooth out or firm the ride. If you are not in a hurry this is the best way to bikepack from my point of view. Still love my gravel bike when the route is roads, gravel or tarmac. How many bikes do you need, Just One more!

If you want more aero on your MTB then try out the SQ Lab Innerbarends 411. Also for tires there are plenty of options for better rolling resistance. no need to buy an extra gravel bike

Playing off Lord of the Rings: "One Bike To Rule Them All." Not being (any longer) a multibike guy, I ride my Trek X-Caliber as my one steady steed. Not the fastest or furthest or even sometimes the most comfortable, but I get where I want to go. I've made a few mods, but it's mostly still a stock bike. Now I'm a big guy ("clydesdale") and 67yo, so that probably impacts my assessment of using an MTB. I do road, gravel, trail, errands and lite touring. I'm not really a "mountain biker" if doing technical riding or tricks or whatnot is included in your definition, but I go off-road and from what I see of your videos of Montana, I'd be happy there. Except for climbing, but that's another story. Good luck and keep up the good videos. I appreciate your viewpoints. And ... I have recently been motivated to pick up a small sketchbook and pencils (including colored) to reawaken my younger-days' drawing skills and supplement my camera while out on the trail. I conincidentaly saw some of your illustration work recently and that reinforced my urge to get sketching.

Agree with you on the fun of a slight underbike, definitely more fun. My two bikes are a world apart though as the MTB is pretty close to an Enduro tier dual suspension so it eats rough trail for breakfast. I think a light hardtail XC 29er might be a tougher call if you went with low RR narrower tyres. I sort of want to get a bike like that, but its hard to justify a third.

Spot on assessment. I too share your enjoyment of underbiking.

The front suspension also aids with traction, because it’s absorbing the bumps, and tracking into the dips as well.

I wish you would have tried a mtb that was a little more appropriate to compare. I have a Cross Coutry MTB Santa Cruz Blur full suspension and it only weights a little over 24lbs and it has 29" wheels. But next time if you can find one I would love to see you try this type of comparison again with a Cross Country MTB, I would say somethiing like Specialized Epic Hardtail Comp and see how the ride goes and hear your opinion again. Love your channel! Keep it up!

Question about your loop. I figure you went up Deer Creek but then I lost the track. Did you go up the logging road on the left at the hairpin?

@PathLessPedaledTV

4 жыл бұрын

Yes. Right after the smooth right hand turn.

@rickholder7799

4 жыл бұрын

@@PathLessPedaledTV Thanks. I've only ever been 100m up that one but it looked like it should connect to Miller on the map.

My new bike is a Reid Alpha "Fat Bike" with 7 speeds and 26x4.8 tires, 5 inch raised handlebars and a 1000W Bafang with 48v21aH battery, I think that makes a very good gravel bike too.

Great commentary sounds very professional

I completely agree and think you broke it down perfectly.

i know this video is a little dated, but i am riding a lot more gravel now that i live in Alaska. i am modifying an existing mountain bike to be more of an adventure bike. i am starting with a Specialized Rockhopper 29er. i ditched the fork for a surly fork. i did go with bigger heavier maxxis tires, changed from a 2x8 drivetrain to a 2x10, and upgraded the cheap mechanical disk brakes to a bit better bb7 braking system. i am still going to change the bars and add a bunch of bags but i think it will be fun

I ride a trek xcalibur 29er for all gravel grinders here in Ohio. We have some washout jeep and fire roads and I find i do well on it. For me, it's about finding the right tires for all surfaces, and the Continental Xking does that for me. I also added some bar ends just inside the bar levers to get more hood-like feel and different positions on the bars, plus I can tuck aero on pavement with them. I negotiated a 2x drivetrain though, so plenty of seamless gearing for climbs and I dont spin out on the flat or descents. To me, it's the perfect machine.

it depends on the setup, when you setup you're mtb into xc it make's more aerodynamic similar to the gravel bikes with dropbars

Great video, I love my Mb on single tracks and very rough terrain, gravel is gravel, is completely another world.

I get exactly where you are coming from. My bike solution for UK conditions is a Disc Trucker running 650b with super ultra wide 3x11 gears and bars very similar to the Koga Denham pattern (Velo Orange Crazy Bars style). In summer I'm on Gravelking Slicks or SK's and in the damper months I move on Gravelking Mud tyres. I have ended up back riding what I started out on Mountain Biking in the mid eighties (Mk1 Rockhopper) but with the benefit of disc brakes and clipless pedals. I also still have my nineties vintage Kona Caldera set up very similarly to the DT but with a 2x11 gear train and DT rigid forks (crash victim). This hybrid combo is a bit lighter than my Trucker and has a much higher bottom bracket which can be an advantage up on the moors. Ciao

I think the better question (and potentially your next video?) is can an mtb, more specifically a 29er, be converted into a good gravel bike? I have been working on that answer in the form of a budget build that started with 2012 Giant XTC XC bike. I found it in the form of the frame, (tubeless ready) wheels, crank (XTR w/nw 34 wolftooth), brakes (XTR as well), seat and post for $100. The focus of the build was to make the best "all road" bike possible for the money (can we ditch the term gravel please as it is a complete misnomer). For the build I used a charbon fork, NX derailleur, Tektro RL520 long pull road levers, chinese cable pull hydro brakes (they work great btw), Microshift 11 speed bar con shifter, 11 speed Sram 11-42 cassette. I am currently waiting for three sets of used tubeless 29er tires to come ($115 shipped) so for the time being I have 42c Pathfinders mounted (it's really zoomy with the PFs though!) Some other bits I had on hand. 3" gap in the rear chainstays so tire clearance is no problemo. It's QR front and back and although I would prefer thru QR still works just fine and on the flipside offers a lot in terms of used high value wheel options. I'm at about $400. Here is the kicker: I don't like drops in the trails and I don't like flats for distance. What is the in between? Bullhorns. I flipped and cut a set of drops and while I like them I have an actual set of bulls on the way. I then mounted the Microshift bar con on the end of the bar on the right so it sits almost straight up. The initial impression is very good as they offer more positions and comfort than a flat and far better control in trail than a drop. The position of the shifter is cool too as it is far more accessible than would be if it were at the end of the bar. The interesting thing is that I still have that kind of "hood position" on the that drops offer but the brake position is so much better and more accessible. I don't have to be in the drops to get good pull on them or even be stretched so far forward. Also since my hands are too the sides I have really good leverage so I can run a narrower bar than an mtb and still have good control and climbing power without the worry of clipping a tree. I still have a lot of tweaking and testing and long distance comfort is still in question although aeros are always an option, but I like this setup a lot. Anyway I know this is just my "bull" but I really like and appreciate your channel and in the end I think it all comes down to pursuing the ultimate cycling experience whatever that may be!

I love my new timberjack and it can definitely handle roughest gravel you throw at it but the ride experience isn’t the same as my gravel bike. I enjoy the easier single track in the drops to sharpen my kills and make easy stuff more exciting but if I’m taking steep down or drops mtb!

I just sold my 29er to get a Salsa Timberjack 27.5 plus. I have and use the Velo Orange Crazy bars just for the reasons you mention. I was wondering if you would do a review with the Crazy bars on the mountain bike? It might give you an interesting ride.

This would be great with my Specialized Crosstrail, a bike I bought years ago because of my commuter riding situation, needing to have that high awareness of an upright geometry while still having larger diameter yet thin wheels for less drag. I would say, this ends up being more of a heavy load touring configuration (bikepacking perhaps) than a gravel bike, but it has just enough of those gravel bike features to be a good, dare I say it, crosstrail hybrid features.

No way around it, but you have some VERY nice places to ride. I have a cross bike (steel lemond propad) that I am thinking about changing to a disc fork up front with better clearance...or change my salsa woodsmoke to a rigid front fork (w Jones H bars). Decisions, decisions.

I ride my hardrock mtb everywhere but I do agree on the suspension being a bit too heavy so I've decided to go with a full crmo ridged fork it will save about 3 lbs off my bike

Little tip for clibling uphill with a mountain bike: If your mountain bike has a suspension lock ring, which basically locks the suspension you can use it to get more power on the climbs, and of course you can unlock the suspension again, it should the right ring on the suspension fork, at least thats where mine is.

One possible way to add more adventure to a Mtb is to use gravel tires but not too thin though. Then you can ride the downhills just on the limit but also have lower rolling resistance on pavement.