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The headline is misleading. "Why Microservices Don't Deliver On Their Promises" should be "When Microservices Don't Deliver On Their Promises".

@sambishop1667

Ай бұрын

Agreed. It's unfortunate that this happens regularly. This is a fantastic channel, but I overlooked it for a long time because of its click bait headlines.

@franciscogrinan6327

Ай бұрын

I enjoy the fantastic content no matter its headline.

@CripplingDuality

Ай бұрын

Would love for one comment section on this channel to not be full of belly aching about clickbait

@CripplingDuality

Ай бұрын

​@@sambishop1667learn a little about how the algorithm works ffs 🤦🏾

@gzoechi

Ай бұрын

Or just "Never use Microservices". It's the best suggestion for 98% and the rest knows better anyway

Interesting conversation. I am reminded of the essential truth that i learned from Fred brooks in the 80s: there is no silver bullet. As long as we keep our eye on the utility to complexity ratio of our systems, and keep a proper balance of accidental to essential complexity then we are probably doing about as well as we can. Anyone who is trying to claim that these well known, simple truths no longer apply is trying to sell something.

The great thing about a distributed monolith is that you are always talking to yourself.

@PaulSebastianM

Ай бұрын

Nice one! 😂

@nijolas.wilson

Ай бұрын

In large orgs (thousands of engineers) you are technically always talking to "yourself", but they're still people you don't know working in areas you don't understand etc. might as well be lots of smaller businesses collaborating, which is where I think MSA has its true place. Distributed monolith at this scale starts to get a bit brittle IMO. But in smaller orgs I personally would definitely opt for a monolith, distributed or otherwise. MSA is a headache if individuals or teams end up responsible for multiple services (which can happen very quickly without strong governance...).

@brownhorsesoftware3605

Ай бұрын

​@@nijolas.wilson 'You' and 'yourself' is meant to refer to the software, not its author/authors.

@nijolas.wilson

Ай бұрын

@@brownhorsesoftware3605 not sure I understand what you mean then 😅what's the advantage of software talking to itself?

@brownhorsesoftware3605

Ай бұрын

@@nijolas.wilsonThe advantage of software talking to itself becomes very clear once you have visited dependency hell. I pray you remain ignorant of that dark and frightening place.

I think there absolutely are use cases for microservices, but I think they're also often used in situations where they aren't needed and they just over-complicate things.

@zlamanit

Ай бұрын

Often they aren’t even micro services, just a monolith with different parts communicating though an API.

@HartleySan

Ай бұрын

@@zlamanit Yes, you're right. Not only is the architecture inappropriate for the size/scale of the business and system, but they don't even truly do microservices correctly.

Thanks for this- planning on listening to the whole podcast. To paraphrase, "if you can't promote microservices independently, then you have a distributed monolith". This is true, of course. The more general issue is that problems arise when there are incorrect boundaries between services/modules. That leads to inter-service calls and various forms of data duplication Logical coupling is the problem. The physical deployment concerns in microservices just makes it more manifest and harder to hide. Coupling is absolutely necessary in any functioning system. The trick being where to put that coupling. There seems to be only 2 places that are necessary and that will not result in a BBOM: 1) The screen. The user expects that data from potentially disparate sources presented in a coherent format -> UI composition. 2) Back end business workflows that are asynchronously choreographed or orchestrated -> Message bus. Perhaps this is obvious. However, there are a ton of recent talks/courses about modularity that completely miss the point and reintroduce the very coupling that they claim to be solving.

Micros complicate unless the problem and solution are very well understood. Best to go from coupled monolith, learn, then decouple and scale with microservices.

IMHO microservices are not bad by themselves, they have a good purpose for some specific contexts. And its specificities that gives ability to respond to those specific comes with specific complexities. So it has a cost. The problem with microservices is that what is often done is not microservices but a distributed monolith full of interservice coupling . Replacing a method call (with params) by a http request (with those same params) doesn’t break the coupling. And you lost the ability to test effectively the behavior of your application. By effectively I mean automated tests that run in seconds and that ensures the functionality works fine. And by distributing the responsibilities in multiple apps makes that you cannot test the whole execution of a given request. You only manage a tiny part of 8:37 the whole story. So, even if your microservice works perfectly fine and respects the contract, you cannot guarantee that the functionality works fine in front of the user eyes. At least not without huge ineffective efforts and huge complications when the distributed monolith grows up to the enterprise information system level… Sorry, I have to try to make it shorter 😅 But so much to say 😄 …

I've never seen multiple versions of the same service for long. Often only a single service has two versions in its own quick unique deployment window.

Another fabulous T-shirt there Dave!

I've been using "distributed monolith" as a term for a long time as I work at companies that try to move to microservices and fail (though they often don't realize it.) I have never heard that term used elsewhere before, so exciting!

I work on software systems where a selected subset of functionalities in the back end could as well be realised as standalone Microservices, not for scaling purposes but for a logical separation of functionalities and it would improve testability. Additional benefit would be that you could have smaller transactions as you extract some atomic functions.

@chudchadanstud

Ай бұрын

Sounds like you need interfaces mate.

There was a mention that there are cases where you would be better off with a distributed monolith. I encourage Mr. Farley to perhaps pick this as the subject for a video. I confess that I have seen examples where monoliths are desirable, others where microservices are desirable and and some in between were moduliths are desirable. I have not seen an example where a distributed monolith is a good option. They seem to incur many of the costs of both monoliths and microservices and forgo many of the benefits of either.

Can someone knowledgeable talk about use cases where a distributed monolith is the right choice over micro-services? Web search seems to indicate distributed monoliths as microservices gone wrong with no inherent advantages of their own. References would be appreciated - Thnx.

@Rick104547

Ай бұрын

Depends on the context but maybe there's a component in your app that you want to scale so much that having the whole app in that component wouldn't be efficient. You could separate it to a separate background process. It's still logically part of the same monolith though but wouldn't call it a distributed monolith either.

@aorc9989

Ай бұрын

I don't believe anyone goes out of the way to design a distributed monolith, it just happens. It's harder to deploy in general but if you are deriving business value from it then it's fine, don't panic and spend lots of money making it into microservices until you find a good business case - generally this will be something like a reduced cost in hosting or time taken in getting the value to your customers.

@psingh007

Ай бұрын

Chatgpt ... what does it say?

@username7763

Ай бұрын

Don't distribute your application if you don't have to. Yeah I get it, many times you do. But don't jump into a distributed system because all the cool kids are doing it. Know your workload, know how CPU dependent or network dependent your application and problem actually is. Computers have gotten really crazy powerful. A simple desk computer is more powerful than prior generation mainframes and supercomputers. Is the problem you are solving really need more than 1 computer (beyond redundancy)? So many business applications just store some data and move things around. One computer can be overkill for that, much less a cluster. Know that first, then you can figure out the best way to scale.

@JeffBartlett-kj6sq

Ай бұрын

An advantage of a distributed monolith over a regular monolith helps keep the architectural design since it is hard and obvious if abstraction layers are skipped. Also since each "service" owns its own isolated distinct database schema, coupling at the database layer is reduced, allowing for easier evolution of table design.

The headlines should be “Why Microservices are Failed” simply because maintaining dependences is very difficult if impossible task for large software project< specially when we’re star talking about sustaining.

Microservices must be independent, therefore you will not care what version you dependencies are. Sam Newman goes as far as saying that microservices SHOULD be deployed separately, precisely to ensure that the anti pattern Mr. Rose mentions does not appear. I agree with other comments that this title is a bit misleading.

The very best thing about microservices is the fact you don't need them. Repeat after me: You don't need microservices. There, problem solved.

@IronCandyNotes

Ай бұрын

Well I do. Enjoy your Laravel/jQuery-stack champ.

@foobar8894

Ай бұрын

​@@IronCandyNotes It might be a valid solution for your problem, although it's highly likely the downsides don't outweigh the benefits. But if you think you *need* them you are a bad engineer that can't see and weigh multiple solutions. (Unless you are a consultant, in that case you do need the complexity of microservices to justify your paycheck.)

@foobar8894

Ай бұрын

Just to clarify the point here, this video is about some new tool to check the contacts between different parts of your service. That's a tool that has existed since the dark ages of computing, it's called a compiler. You'd only need this more complicated thing as a direct result of doing microservices instead of a monolith. It might be a great tool, but not needing it is even better.

@alexaneals8194

Ай бұрын

@@foobar8894 A compiler does not check the contacts between different parts of your service. Even at a low level, the linker is what is responsible for bringing in the various libraries to create the final executable. The compiler does not know what the external code is and in the case of microservices, we are talking about completely different executables. There is no way for the compiler to know what version of the independent executables are out there in the environment.

@foobar8894

Ай бұрын

@@alexaneals8194 thank you for explaining why you should not have a system that is made out of multiple independent executables.

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