“So how do you get your unique tone?” “ everyone else uses an 18’ cable, i use a 19’ cable” .....🤯...🤦🏻‍♂️

Because it's 5 meters? That was a wild guess at the beginning of the video

@HappyBeezerStudios

4 жыл бұрын

Actually closer to 5.5m, but good guess. Now if you see 6ft cables, that's pretty much 1.8m, a common length.

It also depends a lot on the impedance of the pickups, and the resistance of the pots. A lower impedance source is going to be less affected. An extreme example would be an active pickup, which shouldn't be audibly affected by long cables.

There's such a slight difference, it's hard to tell if I'm only hearing it because I expect to hear it or if it's just due to the slight differences in playing each time.

@NoOne-ye5jf

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, It's nothing that can't be fixed by turning up the highs in the amp EQ

@TR-zf6io

5 жыл бұрын

I could definitely hear it in the blind test... but only because I was explicitly listening for it. If you played me the two clips, with no context, I may not have been able to tell the difference as easily. Or, I suspect I might have heard a slight difference, but couldn't tell you what it was.

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoOne-ye5jf An EQ sure helps, but doesn't quite fix it in the strictest sense. If you're losing the highs (which is what happens with cable capacitance), then you can't turn up what you don't have. A buffered pedal early in the chain really is the better option so you don't lose those highs in the first place. (But of course that then opens up the issue of buffered pedals colouring the tone, which is a whole other kettle of fish.)

@crazeyjoe

4 жыл бұрын

@@NoOne-ye5jf In certain cases, increasing the treble frequencies to compensate for frequency degradation will increase inherent noise.

My buffer is an '80s Japanese Script BOSS CS-2. I also dated a chick named Buffer once too. I found out right away how she got that nick name. And that's all I have to say about that.

Guitars with active electronics do not have any of these issues because the electronics present a very low impedance output signal - just like pedals. The run from the pedalboard to the amp should not be considered in the "length to the amp" calculation because nearly all modern pedals provide a low impedance output that isn't subject to the loss of a passive cable. So you can eliminate half of the problem by using a pedalboard (which most guys already do these days) and all of the problem by using a guitar with active electronics (heresy to many purists, I know).

@EpicStuffMan1000

5 жыл бұрын

or a pedal with a buffer :)

@LandsOfDespair

4 жыл бұрын

Hello! So, basically.. If I'm playing on active EMGs and use for example a coiled cable (which cuts highs) - it will be the same as playing through just plain shorter straight cable?

There is a small difference between the 18' and the 25' cable, but not enough to matter. If you are on a big stage running 50' or more of cable then yeah, but all those guys run a buffer.

cable length so real even he sounded different when he said "18 foot prs cable" compared to the much more dulled out and lower frequency "and 25 foot cable" at 2:15 lmfao

you are so knowledgeable about equipment. it blows my mind.

As an electronic engineer I know that the cable isn't has only capacitance but also has impedance and inductance, so, we treat this as an RCL circuit with and AC signal in the input. And to calculate witch frecuencies will be cut at the end of the TX line, we use something called the telegraphist ecuation. but also, when you check the data of the cable, the fabricant tells you witch is the impedance, capacitance and inductance of 1 meter of cable.

@xanataph

5 ай бұрын

When the line is really long, like some kind of way-line or landline perhaps, then the total impedance becomes very important. However, for guitar the inductance of of the cable is totally swamped by the inductance of the guitar circuit itself so the capacitance becomes the dominant effect of the cable.

I feel like this is the difference between making a lasagne with 3 cloves of garlic vs 3.05 cloves of garlic. The difference in tone is far less than what you'd get just by picking slightly harder.

@joshuafreedman7703

4 жыл бұрын

nuberiffic 😜😜😜😆😆😆

"I think he meant with his ear" Good one Phil!

Back in the days of JBL 120 / 123 /131 - Speakers with aluminum dustcaps long guitar cables have been used to tame the harsh high end of those speakers. If you watch old live videos of Black Sabbath, Jimmy Hendrix and other musicians of the 1960's and 70's and if you are lucky enough that the camera took a shot from the side of the stack, you often will see a long cable lying on the floor. This is the length they didn't need for the stage, but for taming the high end of the speakers.

@gchampi2

5 жыл бұрын

Same with Buddy Guy. 100+ feet of cable made a maple neck Strat & a silverface Twin usable without shredding everybodys ears...

Well, With my hearing loss, the highs are already gone😁

I have cables from multiple brands in multiple lengths and my best sounding cable is a 10 foot Lava ELC cable. Yes, I can hear a huge difference in the sound. I play mostly clean, bright percussive stuff through various tube amps (H&K Tubemeister, Fender Blues Deluxe, Peavey Delta Blues) with single coil pickups, and the longer cables sound like a blanket is thrown on my amp. There is a huge loss in clarity. This is fine if you're doing high gain stuff, but for delicate stuff like I play, it's a huge deal.

What this guy doesn't know, isn't worth knowing. He is the best.

I knew there was a loss of high end on my guitars,however slight,but changed with the 2 different amp rigs I to play through,a Fender Pro Reverb & a British style head. The cables are not the same length and I am thinking ,your explanation has to be the reason why! Shimmering highs are what I love about tube amps and though old I am , highs still rock my world.You're brilliant and the finest kind , thanks Phil.

Dang I have a new founding and perspective on these! Really interesting insight, especially as one who owns a lot!

In the olden days we experimented with unshielded lamp cords, nine foot was the limit (IIRC) before 60Hz overwhelmed the signal. Somehow I had associated that with the 18 foot thing.

I always wondered why that length was the maximum, and now I know. Thanks!

Just to add my point of view . I have been in bands since 1963 . I do not use pedals , I do not use cables over 12 foot long . I have tried wireless systems , and hated them ! Usually a Strat plugged into a Fender Vibrolux . Volume needs to be at least on 4 on amp, guitar volume on 10 . 45 watts seems to be just right . More and there is too much headroom , less and not enough headroom . I might sound fussy , but I am always happy with my tone . I play mostly bars on weekends , jamming on Blues and Classic rock .

I've always wondered what was up w/ them making weird lengths of cable. You can hear a difference. Thanks Phil!

thats why you usually always should have 1 pedal with a buffer on your pedal board.

I build my own out of Kineer [sp?] wire ... low Q low noise no crackle if you step on it ... made for mic cables so I use both hots for the signal and float the shield on one end ... bought a roll and some Switchcraft ends 25 years ago and never looked back. Plus the stuff is slinkier than snot and lays on the stage without kinks and if I ever have one fail [I usually have a 50' and a 25' at any one time] I chop it up into patch cords.

I wish you would of added a 10ft or less in the mix, but great video as always. Rock on!

I did hear a SLIGHT difference. Having said that, here's a whacky idea - when using a long cable, turn up the treble control on the amp! Just a thought ;)

@nicks4802

5 жыл бұрын

Or just get an EQ pedal

@shredgd5

5 жыл бұрын

You can't. You could only do it if the treble control on your amp worked *exactly* on the same frequencies, but it doesn't.

@Markle2k

5 жыл бұрын

You can't gain back what you've already lost by boosting the signal without raising the noise floor. Even then, you won't get back exactly what you lost.

@RobMods

5 жыл бұрын

A little treble boost is often all you need to get the job done of course. But to split hairs, the cable capacitance is essentially in parallel with the stay capacitance of your pickups. So it is actually lowering their resonant frequency, above which is a 12dB/octave roll-off. So cranking the treble is not really restoring their true treble character.

@ruiseartalcorn

5 жыл бұрын

@@RobMods Makes sense. Point taken. Thanks :)

Let's see spectrum analyzer images.

@crimfan

5 жыл бұрын

Definitely!

@TL-angzarr

5 жыл бұрын

Do you hear with a spectrum analyzer? Things can get measured that may not be heard and vice versus

@garyrowe58

4 жыл бұрын

So, you listen to cables?

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

@@TL-angzarr . . . . not really. Sure, it can show frequency responses beyond human hearing (and so don't really matter in the practical sense). But the "vice versa" bit isn't true - if folks claim they can "hear differences" where a spectrum analyzer doesn't show a difference, they're imagining it.

@TL-angzarr

4 жыл бұрын

@@mikee6666 Sorry but it's not entirely true. There are harmonics and harmonic interactions that don't show up on a frequency analyzer that you can hear. You have to understand your brain interprets the frequencies that you hear. It's a biological adaptation. Where a frequency analyzer does none of that. They aren't ears

Man, that’s subtle! But it’s there for sure.

I could totally hear the difference, even just listening on my phone

@THRASHMETALFUNRIFFS

4 жыл бұрын

Right, looking for it, the 18ft was brighter! Surprising...

@rickfeith6372

4 жыл бұрын

I heard it too...no question

Buffers are interesting. I made my own pedal called the Buff Dude that has a rotary dial that goes through all the types (BJT, JFET, MOSFET, OPAMP, and INVERT OPAMP). Its interesting as it allows you to hear all the subtleties of the different methods of buffering.

I use a 20 ft coiled cable because I actually like those higher frequencies to be rolled off.

@PhillipMcKnight

5 жыл бұрын

I heard Santana did this as well

@fattboyzz1355

5 жыл бұрын

In pusuit of tone you are . Found it you have ;)

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

Soooo . . . . there's this thing on guitars called a "Tone Knob" . . . . :-| lol ;-)

@THRASHMETALFUNRIFFS

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't that about 4 miles in actual copper length? Like the intestines?

@williamsporing1500

2 жыл бұрын

That was a small part of Hendrix tone too

The "high frequency" rolloff is real. But most people lose the ability to hear those frequencies as they get older. A young person will hear the difference a lot more than older people.

@chrisw5742

5 жыл бұрын

Same with singing. As you age you can't hit the high notes anymore.

@roberteasleysr9108

5 жыл бұрын

Hey , I'm 67 and I heard the difference on the " blind " test 😳

@SaintFredrocks

5 жыл бұрын

@@chrisw5742 Tell that to Sammy Hagar and Rob Halford.

@chrisw5742

5 жыл бұрын

@@SaintFredrocks Next time I see them maybe.

Cables are measured in capacitance per foot. As the length of the cable increases so does the capacitance, thus the decrease in treble response. However a non active guitar, which is essentially a non buffered has a lower impedance and output, suffers a much greater loss on a long cable, than active guitar which has a higher impedance and signal. Thus, a country guitarist who’s playing an old telecaster into a longer cable, needs a lower capacity cable, and or a buffer box or buffer built into the guitar. A buffer between the cable and amp is useless, the signal is already decayed. A buffer between the instrument and cable is useful, as the signal is stronger, thus decays less through the length of the cable.

@slap_my_hand

4 жыл бұрын

Active pickups still have output resistors, so they are not immune to cable capacitance.

@arvidlystnur4827

4 жыл бұрын

slap_my_hand, Yes I agree. It’s that active guitars and basses tend to have less of a problem than non active instruments.

Found out about cable capacitance completely by accident after years of guitar playing. My electric rig for many years consisted of a Pod running into two powered speakers. A buffered setup, so obviously cable capacitance was never an issue. (And for the record, a fantastic sounding setup that I still use a lot, and that gets plenty of compliments for the great tones.) About 3 or 4 years ago I got an all-tube half stack. I was getting fantastic tone out of it, but for the life of me couldn't understand why I was getting such an inconsistent tone. I could dime the tone one day, leave the settings, and the next day it would just miss the mark. After scratching my head over the issue for a couple of weeks, I coincidentally saw a KZread vid explaining cable capacitance. All of a sudden it made sense. I swapped and compared the guitar leads I had been using, and sure enough, cable capacitance was the culprit. The difference between using a 3m lead and a 6m lead was as clear as day. That's what made me decide to go wireless in the end, the quest for consistency. For me personally, wireless provides the clearest and most consistent tone.

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

Now that I think about it, that's the same way I found out about treble bleed and the volume pot! Lol. I acquired a Strat that had extremely noticeable treble loss whenever I used the Vol. I just automatically assumed there was something wrong with the electronics or something. Went online to find out how to go about fixing it, and kept reading that all guitars do it since that's just how electronics work. "BS! None of my other guitars have ever done it!" says the grumpy me. But I plugged in a couple of other gats and listened out for it. And sure enough, clear as day (once I was listening for it), there was the treble loss on them too. Had honestly just not noticed it before. (Mind you, I was deliberately changing my playing style at the time, which would explain it. Used to just turn Vol and Tone all the way up, but was getting into the habit of using them properly to have more control and options over the tone and gain.) Each to their own, but honestly can't stand the tone being changed by the Vol, that's what the Tone is for imo. So now I always install treble bleeds on my guitars, custom values to get it as neutral as possible with a slight erring in preference of keeping more higher frequencies.

It didn't affect John Fogerty in that Old Man Down The Road video. That was a long ass cable too. 😁

My wireless unit has a switch that emulates 50 feet of cable. I love it. A Strat on a clean channel can get pretty honest up there and to roll off some of that frequency the makes my dog wince is a nice feature. I call it the "dog switch". He won't come near me if it's off, he will when it's on. And my MXR 10 band EQ has a lot of effect on the highs as well.

I wish you have included a 5-6 ft cord so we could really hear the difference.

I was very skeptical at the start of the video, but I heard a significant difference between the two cables, even in the blind test. The 18 ft. cable sounded much fuller and brighter than the 25. The pedal helped retain some of the frequencies, but I could still hear a difference between it and the 18.

Thank you for the vids! Always learn SOMETHING I didn't know before!

I love learning new stuff like this. Always wondered about this but forget to look up after I leave the shop. Thank you for these!!!

To get the absolute BEST TONE POSSIBLE I use a 6 inch patch cable. I can’t move around much but my tone is AWESOME!!!!

@THRASHMETALFUNRIFFS

4 жыл бұрын

IT'll sound twice as good if you go with the 3"!!

@jlarrybrewer1149

4 жыл бұрын

THRASH METAL & FUN RIFFS 3 INCHES!!! YOU ARE A MADMAN!!!!!

I definitely heard the difference, though my brain wanted to interpret the higher capacitance examples as slightly "warmer". Great job on the video, by the way. Your production quality has greatly improved!

Hi Phil can you make a video on wireless vs cables

Have you tried a spectrum analyzer? In one instance, I was able to see sections of frequency ranges with no volume to them, making the sound thin. This was a wireless into 20 foot cable into my boss pedals. Switched to a 6" cable and it was perfect. No idea what the cause was, but the android app made it easy to see what was going on.

The Secret is..... "Thicker the Guitar Cable Gauge", "{Less Resistance}. I notice it when I had custom cables made for my Amp head for my speaker cab...

@lwilton

4 жыл бұрын

Actually resistance doesn't matter with a high impedance guitar output. You would need a few thousand feet of cable before the resistance meant anything. What does matter is the capacitance per foot, and larger diameter cables often have less capacitance (per foot), letting you run a longer cable.

No fooling, I believe I heard it too. Once again Phi you have taken us to some place new. Thank you

Phil great video ....This is all true and as bedroom or weekend players with friends you will notice the difference .....But big stage acts already know how to fix this problem .....Thanks again Phil ...

The capacitance of cables is no illusion, but more basic ac electronics...and it certainly effects more than guitars especially as the frequency increases.

This is why you should have a buffered bypass pedal upfront of your board... If you dont have that. Get a buffer. All issues fixed. (if you have a really exceptionally long pedalboard you should get a buffer at the end of the board as well.. Or get rid of a lot of pedals. You don't need that much)

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

Yes and no. Having a buffered pedal sorts the distance from that pedal to the amp, but does nothing about the distance between the guitar and said pedal. Probably a moot point for a lot of guitar players - rooted to the spot, and only need a short lead to the pedal board at their feet. But using my rig as an example, sometimes I just have 2-3 always on (or nearly always) effects that I'll leave on top of the amp, so depending on how far away from the amp I am and how much I'll be moving around I could theoretically need quite a lengthy cable, meaning cable capacitance could be a considerable issue regardless of any buffering I'd have amongst the effects. (Also a moot point since I'd be wireless, lol, but hope you get what I'm meaning.)

@THRASHMETALFUNRIFFS

4 жыл бұрын

TRUE! I have like 15 pedals in ONE... BOSS ME-70

Yeah not a huge difference, but these things stack-up on aggregate, so you gotta so whatever you can whenever you can to keep the overall result good.

Listening on a pair of RF Sennheizers, I nailed the blind test. And I did hear a very mild change in tone. Nothing a little boost from a pedal board won't fix :) The 18 ft. sound the clearest of the bunch hands down. the 25ft was fine but a bit more muddy. Both of them with the booster, still quite noticable vs the 18 ft. But again, nothing a pedalboard won't fix. we guiartist tend to fiddle around with tones, LOL

Good video but the difference is noticeable to buy new cables. Thanks Phil

Phil, great insight.. how does a wireless system compare? Are they not having built in pre-amps to compensate for signal loss as you describe. For that matter would a boost pedal improve the losses of the highs in a long cable situation? Love your channel..

@rowlandstraylight

5 жыл бұрын

Capacitive loss works like a low pass filter, but before a buffer this interacts with your guitars pickups and controls, so the result is a bit more complex. You can maybe compensate with some smart use of an eq, but a straight amplifying boost won't work. You'll just have a louder, less bright sound. Some wireless units do have a cable compensation sim. When i was using an old one on a passive bass i was rolling back the tone a little because it was quite bright and had more fingernail in the tone. It's much easier to deal with too much bright with an eq tweak than putting the lost high end bqck in.

@joshuafreedman7703

4 жыл бұрын

BJ Stein Which side of a pedalboard is cabled vs. which side is wireless? Seems to me I'd go wireless into the pedalboard, then wire the board to the amp.

@rowlandstraylight

4 жыл бұрын

@@joshuafreedman7703 this is the usual way. Particularly as high gain amp users tend to have modulation and delay pedals in the FX loop. This means 3 cables between pedalboard and amp on addition to the wireless in from the guitar (or conventional guitar cable)

I usually cannot pick up on minute sound differences. But even through the speakers on my macbook, I could detect a subtle difference.

That's why you plug directly to amp No cables No pedals

@sparkyguitar0058

5 жыл бұрын

No That's why you have an acoustic. Duh

@thatziggs4062

5 жыл бұрын

SOLDER THE PICKUP TO THAT AMP, BOY!

@sparkyguitar0058

5 жыл бұрын

@@thatziggs4062 Actually I use a wireless. Guitar bug,can change guitars as fast as I can sent down and pick up. Not always quiet because I walk all over the house and outside even, so I don't blame the wireless.

@3vergiven

5 жыл бұрын

I lol'd

Last cables I bought I cut and soldered it myself. They were 18' because of the size of the room.

PRS uses VanDamme cable which is stated to have about 90pF/m. In reality it's about 125pF/m (measured several times on several production batches with very precise equipment). This is about the same as the much raved Mogami cable. When asked about this difference, VanDamme refuses to reply and PRS just says that they believe VanDamme's specs to be true. When measuring other brands (Cordial, Sommer Cable, Klotz, Fender and so on) I have always measured the stated capacitance or better (same measuring equipment used) so it's definitely not me. What this comes down to: 1. Do not trust manufacturers and their stated specs. Always check for yourself. 2. More expensive does absolutely not mean better! Usually you are paying an upcharge for name/reputation/snake oil/fairy dust. 3. Always use a cable with a capacitance of 90pF/m or lower and check stated value. This allows you to use a longer cable with same or less loss of highs as a cable with a higher pF like Mogami and VanDamme/PRS. Cheap option: Fender cables because around 85-90pF/m. 4. Always use a buffer if you get above 500/600pF in total. Seems to be a magical number for pro's.

I'm mostly surprised that the silver sky and princeton didn't get into a fist fight. Nice video as always Phil!

This isn't about what length cable to use, or whether someone can consciously detect the effect. This is about understanding how your gear affects your sound, even something presumably trivial. It also points out that if you want to get the most out of your carefully chosen guitar and amp, you should pay close attention to your whole signal path. I could definitely hear the difference in the tests, and my hearing is not perfect. Generally, women have better hi-end hearing than men, and young people better hi-end hearing than older. So, just cuz you can't hear a difference doesn't mean no one can. And if you say "yeah but in a noisy bar on a crappy sound system it won't mean anything", that's not always the situation. An intimate club makes better sound important, and then there's the studio too.

I have an 11ft Vovox cable , solid core copper . I compared it to George L's , High-end Fender , and Elixer . I played straight into a lightly overdriven Marshall and played only lead lines and quasi be-bop maybe country swing-ish . I changed cables as quickly as I could between comparisons . Not really noticing much difference accept the George L's was the brightest . What I realized was the Vovox 11ft = $172 Canadian , I was playing more fluently . It just felt more responsive , my picking hand wasn't beating the shit out of the strings to get the amp to respond . It was more about feel than tone . A store owner told me a guy returned his Vovox cable because it was screwing up his playing , tooo responsive .

@TheStompboxer

5 жыл бұрын

Haha, that’s fantastic. Literally.

Great video and explanation! I never knew that the Boss tuner was a buffer pedal. Thanks!!!

I'm surprised but I was able to notice. It's possible I did because I expected the highs to be different. It might be that I use big stereo speakers to watch youtube on the TV as well but the difference was really noticeable when I was analyzing the overtones. The overtones on the longer cable "danced/stirred" less with each other while the shorter cable's overtones from the chords were kind of wild and way less restrained. In other words, the longer cable's overtones were more restrained and focused while the overtones on the shorter cable were more noticeable, making the notes less defined because the overtones were heard moving a lot more. This is cool and thanks for the info. It's definitely noticeable and I think both have their possibilities and place. Someone who wants more individual note definition and less messy overtones in their signal chain should definitely consider longer cables while people who are going for more texture and wild, overtone rich tones should consider shorter cables.

Slight difference, but definitely there. Cool video.

The difference is quite noticeable. I didn't expect the blind test, so I closed my eyes on the first test and could easily tell the 25 from the 18. Don't know how vital it is, but it is very interesting to me as an audiophile. The same problem facts audiophiles and their speaker cables--higher capacitance leads to lost fidelity. Thanks, man!

@TheStompboxer

5 жыл бұрын

Capacitance isn’t a factor with speaker cables.

Like you said I would never notice the difference if it weren’t for the A/B test but this was a very interesting experiment.

johan segeborn also made a great video on the subject, where he compared a bunch of different cable lengths to using a TU-2. Search "Your GUITAR TONE is KILLED by your CABLE but your TUNER (!) may SAVE YOU! "

I couldn't hear anything watching this on my phone.... however, I definitely can hear it when playing at home. I can hear so much difference, that sometimes I just use a 10 ft cable directly into my amp, and it does sound better to me in the room. Is just a little bit more. Edit: Granted, my amp has to be turned up quite loud for me to notice it. I wouldn't notice it if I were to play at bedroom levels.

@craigthompson7070

5 жыл бұрын

Good summary. Some significant differences aren't audible at lower volumes. That's why getting great tone live is so difficult. Can't properly tweak at home.... even of you can occasionally crank it up, it's not the same when your drummer, bassist and singer are in the mix in a live room with an audience... when live tone sounds great you have done something very elusive!

For the Future it would be nice if you could put a download link in the description with uncompressed audio. Trough KZread, with its own amount of compression, I could just hear that you played different so slightly.

What about cabling into and out of effects loops? Does the length matter? Where would a buffer or buffers be most effective? I use a 10 ft cable into my Fractal FX8 and three 18 ft cables for my 4CM setup.

@PhillipMcKnight

5 жыл бұрын

Effects loops are not all the same so it depends and this would be a great video in itself.

@ResoBridge

5 жыл бұрын

The simple answer about a buffer is that the nearer you can put a buffer to the guitar (in other words - the shorter the cable from guitar to buffer) the less capacitative loading there will be on the guitar. You should be able to fit any reasonable length of cable between the buffer output and the amplifier, including all the cables in any effects hook up, and it will have no effect on your guitars sound. So place your buffer in front of your effects. However some distortion pedals such as the classic fuzz circuit, are intended to be connected directly to the guitar. If you have a Fuzz Face, place that first, followed by the buffer.

@Markle2k

5 жыл бұрын

@@ResoBridge You can even place a buffer in front of your guitar's output jack. It only takes a few very small components and a power source.

@ResoBridge

5 жыл бұрын

@@Markle2k Certainly you can, but an outboard buffer is perhaps more flexible because you can plug in any guitar, rather than having to have an active buffer in every guitar you might use.

You should do an audio spectrum check to see where the highs cut out. Maybe even run as many cables as you can for the longest length possible and see how that sounds.

On the 18 you appear from the camera angle to be strumming slightly nearer the bridge which could explain the audible difference (looking relative to the neck pickup, maybe half an inch further back). Not saying cable length doesn’t matter on high end loss - it does - but your strumming position matters also. Looper pedal would have removed that (potential) variable...

@nwimpney

5 жыл бұрын

The looper pedal will also buffer the signal, and remove the effect entirely. (technically, it would just push the roll-off frequency way above audible)

@PhillipMcKnight

5 жыл бұрын

I did 4 takes of each and matched the take that had the same peak to get as close as I could.

@Rhythmanalysis

5 жыл бұрын

nwimpney would depend on the looper pedal...

There's a practical advantage to this. 18 ft is enough for most gigging musicians and 2 ft less cable means less weight and space taken up in your accessory bag/case. Maybe not a big deal, but every little helps. I've actually cut down my 20ft cables to 18 for this reason.

I seem to remember hearing a story about one of the classic guitarists (I want to say Bo Diddley) consciously choosing to use a 100 foot cable on stage because he liked the sound.

@gchampi2

5 жыл бұрын

Buddy Guy used to use a 100+ foot cable, to the extent that he referred to his tech as his "cable valet". He used to occasionally end up playing outside the club! As he was playing a maple neck strat through a silverface twin, it kinda makes sense that he'd want to scrape some of the top end out of his tone...

I only use those for the stage despite I usually don't need more than 12 ft. Best results with an active guitar. Also i have 18 ft just to have one... But for practice and whatever daily use I stick to 10 ft. The sound is good and you can still move.

Back in the days when there was no wireless and you didn't trust the FOH-Tech (it was a p.i.a. to play with the local "superstars"), I made a 120 ft cable, just to be able to watch the FOH tech mixing the bands. Today I still have cables up to 45 ft, the shortest cables are 9 ft. No problem at all with active basses - or a buffer pedal. Or a tuner like the Korg DT 10 or any other pedal with a buffered direct through. I buy reels of Monster or Sommer Cables and Neutrik Connectors and solder my own cables to the length l or my bandmates want them to. Cheaper, and it feels like they are better and more sturdy than cables you get in the shop. Those "local superstars" never had any interest in a music community and did everything to make you fuck up your Gig - like doing a shitty mix, even bribing the tech to make it sound horrible, High End bins that didn't work for the first bands, but magically worked for the "stars". They even had wrong soldered cables to get the then popular Martin bins working out of phase, meaning you had no low end in the mix. They changed to the right cables before they started, and had anything they needed. Those bands disappeared after some time. Nobody of them plays today anymore. The "boss" of one of those bands playing this bad game changed his surname (by taking the name of his second wife), because nobody wanted to be his busines partner when he opened a Rock Bar, everybody knew that he tried to cheat the other bands. So a long cable was kind of an insurance for having a decent sound, back in the days in my aerea.

The difference is so subtle between 18' and 25', especially for someone over 50 like me that can't hear high frequencies as well. Still, it's nice to know why 18' is such a popular length for cables.

Because a good long cable is a lot cheaper than a good wireless system, and basically fool-proof? That was the deciding factor for me when I was playing out. When recording it might make a bigger difference if you have bionic ears, but I'll bet you lunch the vast majority of long cables are used by folks who are playing live or practicing/rehearsing a lot, not in the studio.

There is s a difference but how much that difference matters in a live situation I doubt would be a problem. Also, you can use a cable that has a silver core which sounds noticeably brighter to compensate. I have 2 such cables and when I plug straight into an Amp with them they are too bright so I don't normally like them.

Yep. Appreciate it.

It makes sense, it's the same with power tools.

What I was noticing is that the tail end seemed to ring out a little more, if that makes sense, but not much other difference. To be honest that could be an issue of using devices that run software and have volume leveling controls in the whole thing. I would imagine that it sounds slightly differen, at least, if you are physically there. I may go by my local music store and ask them to repeat the test. The guys there are good people and generally will do anything that seems interresting and adds something different to their day lol.

It’s still rock n roll to me

Cables differ in capacitance. It’s always a good idea to use the lowest capacitance cable you can afford. I use Sommer Spirit LLX ultra low capacitance cable from ElectricArteria cables and it really makes a difference to guitar sound.

Sadly, I thought it was just because of the Metric system vs the standard and the conversion of West vs East manufacturers. Good to learn something new.

@EightiesTV

4 жыл бұрын

That's why they call it the "Royale with cheese" in France...

I can’t believe that I could actually hear the difference and got the blind test right. However, without an immediate A/B comparison, I would never be able to tell you the difference.

Is there any difference with a wireless system

@PhillipMcKnight

5 жыл бұрын

The wireless should be buffered and that is a whole other can of worms.

@Nicky-T

5 жыл бұрын

I understand the Line 6 wireless systems have a built-in tone modifier to mimic a cable's output.

@jordanlake471

5 жыл бұрын

X E The Rolling Stones do just fine with wireless.

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

The whole reason I ended up switching to wireless was because of cable capacitance. I figured wireless *should* provide the clearest, no-loss signal. In my experience, the assumption has been proved correct and wireless has given me a far better tone than cables ever did.

How do you work on an f hole hollowbody guitar with no back plate? And how does the factory get one put together?

@LentilsOverkill

5 жыл бұрын

There's a trick to pulling the electronics through the F hole. It's a pain.

Real test would be to record those chords into a looper pedal with the shortest cord you have. Then you could play back the exact sound through the various cord lengths.

Wow. Thanks. I totally heard the difference. This helps me out alot

Thanks for the video and now I may want Wampler buffer boost pedal.

Good video, Phil (as usual). IMHO, the battle of the cables is a waste of breath. Give me a cable (any length, preferably it reaches my amp) of good quality that won't get broken circuits at the plugs, and I'm happy. Also, I would imagine that the roll off of treble will occur with any length of cord to a varying degree. When it reaches an unacceptable level, go shorter. I don't think that any particular length (eg, 18 ft) is magical.

Phil, How about some input on Firefly guitars that are on and off Amazon ? Also how about your take on a VHT Redline 40 R amp head ...... Thanks . Appreciate your information .

@PhillipMcKnight

5 жыл бұрын

I need to check them out

Some day i'll test this by injecting an external magnetic field into my pickup, doing a frequency sweep and measuring the output with various capacitors attached to the output, but i don't have the required equipment right now.

on the blind test B has a lot more bass and mids , A thinner sound not as full

I could tell right away, it wasnt extremely obvious but the high end was a little duller on the 25 ft.

A lot of pedals act as buffers. What you said about total cable length is only true if all of your pedals are true bypass.

I preferred the sound of the 25 ft. The 18 sounded too bright and harsh.

How do you explain Zakk Wylde leaving the stage, and walking far as hell away from the stage and into the crowd and still have strong signal and NOT be wireless. I saw him at Experience Hendrix. I was amazed at the length of the cable AAAANNNNNND him still getting clear guitar signal/sound at the distance he was.

@JulianA-tr6pt

5 жыл бұрын

Impedances, and/or whatever EQ/pedals/amps he was using. It's pretty simple overall, but despite the oversimplified explainations most guitar videos provide, there is a ton more to the story than cable capacitance = dull tone. Higher capacitance alone won't necessarily make the signal sound dull. If you plug into a buffer, for example, you can use a super long cable while retaining much of your treble. It all depends on the impedance of what you plug into, along with the effects and EQing after, which I'd be almost certain a pro musician like Zakk uses.

@PhillipMcKnight

5 жыл бұрын

Im pretty sure he uses EMG pick ups. Those are active. Plus it might now matter to him or his tone. These types of videos and talks are about explaining someones thought or logic. For ever example there is another example. PS. Zakk is amazing!

I heard a difference. But in a mix or just jamming with others I wouldn't notice it so just won't let it bother me 😊

@mikee6666

4 жыл бұрын

True, not a big difference in itself. But an overall guitar tone is the sum of all it's parts. There's a heap of little considerations that by themselves don't really affect the tone a heck of a lot, but when not addressed and added up could make a world of difference between an objectively "good" and "bad" guitar tone. As cable capacitance is a known phenomena, it's always very good practice to use as little overall cable length (or signal chain length) as possible to get the best possible signal from the guitar to the amp.

I measured all my cables last week and my 25ft and 10ft cables match capacitance and resistance. My 18ft was much much higher. All cables from same manufacturer.