Talking about banned characters while pet shops theme is playing This should be good

@breadgatoo

4 жыл бұрын

It be like that

@CyanKnight96

4 жыл бұрын

Bro shouldn’t you be running a mafia?

@IcyAtlas

4 жыл бұрын

Goddamnit Jack, I swear, you are the reincarnation of Justin Y.

@breadgatoo

4 жыл бұрын

@@CyanKnight96 go back to Purple Haze Feedback

@Xx_STRHMN_xX

4 жыл бұрын

It do be like that sometimes

"just adapt lmao"

@Galaxxyss

4 жыл бұрын

Spark “Just SDI lmao”

@PaleRook

4 жыл бұрын

Galaxxyss “Just don’t get grabbed lmao”

@biohazard724

4 жыл бұрын

"Block and punish 4Head"

@123christianac

4 жыл бұрын

"Just don't get hit noob"

@ultimatepunster5850

4 жыл бұрын

"so what if all his combos give me super armour, has a vanish that stuns you, and is completely inescapable once he has you in a combo? doesn't mean he's op" -Random Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 player on the subject of Hercule.

The risk of banning a character too early is a dead character, the risk of banning a character too late is a dead game.

@Ryusuta

4 жыл бұрын

Oh my god, yes. Well said!

@kevChess

4 жыл бұрын

I mean banning a character too early may also kill the game as well.

@johnnyboi331

4 жыл бұрын

@@kevChess that means the game wasnt fun to begin with and should be killed.

@yousef858

4 жыл бұрын

@@kevChess its just one character though

@badhermit7717

4 жыл бұрын

Phos9 The problem is that in order to be able to rightfully ban a character people need enough time to learn all that they can do. But once that happens you already have people that have cling on to that character. This is what happened with meta knight.

*CaptainZack taunts onstage* "The future is written against you"

Hero’s ban is twofold. The first wave of bans were because he’d been released so close to various tournaments that there was no time for players to experience him before the tournament. The second wave was about language dependence and RNG more than being truly too powerful, I believe.

@magikazam8430

4 жыл бұрын

The thing with hero is that he like a A tier char whiotut the rng crits and magic spells. Add then up and he can with rng become the best char in game if luck say so, Magic is ez to cancel and can't backfire unless you use kamikaze or something. Not only that but the spell name depend on the user language. good luck trying to adapt to japaness Hero user.

@netweed09

Жыл бұрын

@@magikazam8430 That's the problem. But he falls into the 'Hilda category' as explain @ ~11:30. Not to that crazy of an extent but Hero will beat 99% of the less experienced players and still is a 50-50 toss up with the best of the Pros - and this is all by use of someone simply Maining him (so, not casual - but you don't have to be that Pro level at all.) Basically - it's Easy Mode to get any random streetkid good & well into Tournaments - and that's really bad character bias.

@jpraise6771

11 ай бұрын

LISTEN HERE GRUNTS. I GOT A MESSAGE FOR YA SO YOU LISTEN AND YOU LISTEN GOOD. JESUS CHRIST OUR MOTHA FO'CKIN SAVIOUR HAS SENT ME TO TELL YOU HE RETURNS SOON, SO GIVE YOUR IVES TO CHRIST!

Something else that I recall about the Meta Knight ban: The tournament before it was to be enforced was a national, with people from Japan coming over to the States to wage war. I don't remember exactly who said it, but it was mentioned on commentary that Japan didn't really see Meta Knight as unbeatable - still incredibly powerful, but not insurmountable - and that if the States banned him, then Japanese players would have no reason to come back over in the future. I don't know exactly how much this factored into the Meta Knight ban not sticking, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a contributing reason.

@Stumblebee

4 жыл бұрын

That sounds like a very Japanese reason, honestly. Japanese players in Super Turbo didn't even ban Akuma from their tournaments. They just kind of informally discouraged it.

@Aztyph

4 жыл бұрын

@@Stumblebee Didn't they ban O. Sagat, though… or am I mistaken?

@Stumblebee

4 жыл бұрын

Same thing. Soft banned, so still playable.

@Takahashi2212

4 жыл бұрын

Really the strongest reason the Meta Knight ban didn't stick is because MLG announced a Brawl circuit right around the time Meta Knight was banned that had Meta Knight unbanned. Why would smaller tournaments ban the character if the largest tournaments with the largest prizes have him unbanned?

@edfreak9001

4 жыл бұрын

That's the prime reason I heard. It wasn't because the character wasn't suddenly monstrously unbalanced, it was just that people didn't want their god-tier banned.

The fact that Metaknight couldn’t be banned suggests it’s impossible for any non-boss character to be banned in a modern fighting game in a timely manner. You can call it what you want. At the end of the day a game’s community was more willing to kill itself than to ban Metaknight and Ice Climbers.

@devinbannish1469

4 жыл бұрын

Lol yeah

@shaunmcisaac782

4 жыл бұрын

I would extend it to "DLC" and "Create-A-Character" types, as they somewhat more likely to get the boot than base roster even if not technically bosses. It's pretty easy for a Community/Organizer to decide that someone's inevitable pixel waifu isn't worth having at a (nominally) PG13 event.

@shady8045

4 жыл бұрын

tbh I don't thin brawl would have servived if metaknight was banned, the new game was all that killed it imo

@MercuryPenny

4 жыл бұрын

looking back, ice climbers killed brawl more than meta knight did. watch some old brawl sets, mk dittos are hype af and a lot of other high-tiers could go shockingly even with him, whereas late-meta icies forced tedious, unwatchable/unplayable stalemates and slowed an already pretty patient game to a torturous crawl

@Pan_Z

4 жыл бұрын

The vote to ban MK happened 2 to 3 years after Brawl's release, after players had been maining, labbing, and practicing Meta Knight for hundreds of hours. Banning MK would have invalidated years of work. If a community bans a character, they need to do it early on.

Really funny seeing Captain Zach acting so cheeky considering how recent events have shown, him playing Bayo was the LEAST of his actual flaws

Interesting point of note - Smash as a community mostly became what it is because of bans (items and most stages), whereas most fighting games did not. In general, the Smash community is more likely to reach for the banhammer because of this.

When a top player comes down from his perch saying "Pfff ! I will not attend this event if my character is banned !" i'm just not buying it. For a lot of these top players, competing is their livelihood. They'll get mad, complain on twitter for a week or a month at most and then they'll just jump right back into the game with their secondaries as their main. Like, i get that it's your favorite character but you are not the center of the world and between the community (and the meta) moving forward (and keeping interest in the game alive by not having the same character in 5 of the 8 spots of top 8) and flat-out killing the community/interest in the game (also killing your livelihood because if the interest in a game is at 0, there will be no more tournaments therefore no money). The choice is pretty easy to make imo. I remember at EVO 2018, everybody knew that it was going to be Smash Wii U's last major tournaments because of two factors: 1): Ultimate was coming out in 5 months (as soon as it came out, it was like Smash4 never happened) 2): Interest in the game sunk to 0 because every one saw where the meta was going. Singles was all Bayonetta and Cloud had killed doubles. A Complete dead end. Even the commentators were like: "I can't wait for Ultimate to come out". Nobody wanted to deal with this bullshit anymore and yet, they just...let it happen.

@Nostroman_Praetor

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure smash is the best example for this but your right its petty to do that and to only have one character you'll play in the competetive fighting game scene

@dizzygunner

3 жыл бұрын

Smash pros are babies, who'd of thunk it!

@harpot678

3 жыл бұрын

@@dizzygunner Imagine grinding 1 character for 2 years, then your character gets banned. That's it, your chances of winning a major is 0, because other people have grinded their non-banned character for 2 years, and ur not gonna catch up.

@dizzygunner

3 жыл бұрын

@@harpot678 most of the time these banned character aren't grinded by top players because they like the character, they pick them because they know they are way too good, the risk you take my friend.

@harpot678

3 жыл бұрын

@@dizzygunner But come on, Brawl had been out for 3 years. If you banned a character 6 months into play, it would have been understandable, and nobody would have years of grinding that one character under their belt.

Never thought I'd see a Def Jam: Fight for New York tier list lmao

@doomyboi

4 жыл бұрын

DJFFNY is easily S tier in terms of fighting games

@kzakulenga5138

3 жыл бұрын

@@doomyboi I'd rather play FFNY than MvS infinite

"Learn the match up" doesn't hit the same when you can't make evo

@kosinparuchabutr4007

3 жыл бұрын

you: *picks ganon* opponent: *picks meta knight* opponent: "dude you suck so bad lmao." "what was that? Meta knight is broken? lmao just learn the matchup and get good kid"

@N12015

Жыл бұрын

@@kosinparuchabutr4007 Tbf he picked Ganon. Expect to be bodied by everyone.

A large part of the discussion you missed is spectators. Spectators are the largest reason why large tournaments can exist. They support the tournament on Twitch and/or by their venue entry. But if a game becomes stale, people steadily stop watching. Take Smash 4 for example. After Bayo became prevalent, it just wasn't fun to watch anymore. Tons of mediocre players were carried by her, the good players that played Bayo got inordinate amounts of reward, the good players that didn't were at an extreme disadvantage since you basically died in one touch if they were competent. And worst of all, CaptainZack and that other guy ruined Grand Finals of the largest Smash Wii U tournament of the year because "wahh, nobody likes my character they boo me and I'm sad". Nobody wants to watch a game where one character makes everything boring by making every fight with them happen the same way, and nigh-invalidating anyone who tries to stand on their own merit by not playing the character. The players suffer, the state of the game suffers, and the tournament scene suffers.

@qwormuli77

4 жыл бұрын

Yup. Simply, broken stuff in a competitive game kills it. Killing a small part of it without the whole thing dying is always preferable.

@franciskirma659

4 жыл бұрын

Captainzack in ultimate LUL

@UltimaKeyMaster

4 жыл бұрын

It's not remotely fair to hate the players of a boring system just because they win all the time in my eyes. And I mean LEGITIMATELY hate them as if they're the reason why everything sucks, not just "ah screw that guy, I wanna see someone kick their ass." They're the ones competing after all and I would guess it's not for the entertainment for most. It's like saying the New England Patriots don't deserve a voice just because the Tom Brady era has been absolute gold for them, or the Golden State Warriors for basketball. Just because no one can consistently compete doesn't make it the winner's fault. There's a reason "don't hate the player, hate the game" exists.

@dereklewis4321

4 жыл бұрын

It's funny how all the top Bayos in s4 are completely irrelevant in Ultimate. Says everything you need to know.

@XxHorseshoeXx

4 жыл бұрын

@1998SIMOMEGA whack

I would let Chun-Li and Bayonetta dominate me anyday.

@akio0191

4 жыл бұрын

Shut the up

@placeholdertag

4 жыл бұрын

Absolutely based

@eleternauta2640

4 жыл бұрын

Facts

@placeholdertag

4 жыл бұрын

@@tazmania7785 a man of culture I see

@HappySolarSystem

4 жыл бұрын

I wouldn’t mind having Yun use his special moves on me, personally.

That Mew2King post only taught me one thing: don't hold off on college just to try and be the best at a fighting game.

@dashuntas.m4045

4 жыл бұрын

Corpse Senpai 😂

@Alienrun

3 жыл бұрын

lol this!

@tjtribble.

3 жыл бұрын

@034bloodas he’s also the 0.1% of smash players. Very few people are like M2K. Also idk how much money you make but he doesn’t make that much for how successful he is, especially not back then

@MrLachapell

3 жыл бұрын

@@tjtribble. i actually live by this, he is the 0.0001% of the community , now imagine the amount of people who quit collage to play competitive and failed , now they don't play the game and don't have career

@theonewhowrotethis5681

3 жыл бұрын

@034bloodas Don't follow his example. Tons of really well-paying jobs now these days require a Bachelor's Degree (usually in either STEM, Law, Business, or Economics), so skipping out on your education just so you can potentially win tournaments is a very bad idea (plus tournaments usually don't pay well unless if they're big and/or they're sponsored). IMO, it's better to have a steady job with decent pay instead of a dream job where you're at the mercy of game developers and a community. If you can get a dream job that is also steady, more power to you. However, those kind of jobs are one in a million.

When you see the controller he’s using for golden eye is just a roku tv remote

@cthulublade5223

4 жыл бұрын

Reality is often disappointing.

@fadorka

4 жыл бұрын

Still better than a n64 controller

@brandonwilliams3777

4 жыл бұрын

N64 controller was trash

@jonathanbrown6034

4 жыл бұрын

@@brandonwilliams3777 Are you kidding? It was revolutionary. The first three handed controller.

@brandonwilliams3777

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanbrown6034 that wasn't the biggest issue It wad the fact that the analog stick got erectile disfunction after 2 days.

I didn't know there was a tier list for DefJam

@mortisedthegamer778

4 жыл бұрын

discord.gg/6peSm5

@Joey_Star_

4 жыл бұрын

DMX mains rise up.

@mortisedthegamer778

4 жыл бұрын

@@Joey_Star_ REDMAN, SUSPECT, CROW, Carmen, and sticky are banned tier.

@mortisedthegamer778

4 жыл бұрын

@@NSFSponsor on god

@zacharypreval3186

4 жыл бұрын

Every fighting game has a tier list. Even cartoon network: punch time explosion xl has one.

You should’ve brought up Dong Dong Never Die. We have 3 banned characters because it’s nearly impossible to lose with those three. They have higher stats, start with more meter, and one has a single button infinite that’s safe on block

@frostywasp1743

4 жыл бұрын

Dear god...

@404waffles

4 жыл бұрын

yo show me some ddnd community matches i wanna see em

@SilverRay85

4 жыл бұрын

to be fair, Dong Dong Never Die is more of a joke game than an actual fighting game. Its still very fun and could be played seriously, but I'm not sure it was designed to be a competitive fighting game.

@mrninjagon270

4 жыл бұрын

Doesn’t Violent Dong Dong’s emergency evade have no startup or endlag, making it effectively true invincibility if you get a lifelead?

@404waffles

4 жыл бұрын

WHERE IS THE DONG DONG NEVER DIE COMMUNITY

"Pet-shop is op due to spacing" *Laughs in Hol Horse*

@deltad3592

4 жыл бұрын

Hol Horse is mid-tier. Sincerely, The good HFTF players

@garrettoliva5154

4 жыл бұрын

@@deltad3592 can't protest about that.

@ramenbowl9667

4 жыл бұрын

@@deltad3592 The good HFTF players? *Laughs in slow bullet*

@edlerkrieger8045

4 жыл бұрын

Grabs are a nightmare for hol horse

@c0nga

4 жыл бұрын

@@bojanglesfaniv9711 daze

Honestly those Meta Knight players sound super entitled. "WAHHHH HOW DARE U BAN MY BROKEN AND OP CHARACTER THAT REPEATEDLY MAKES THE GAME NOT AS FUN FOR OTHER PLAYERS WAHHH WAHHH"

@FranzoOnLine

3 жыл бұрын

To me, people clamoring for a Meta Knight ban sound like babies that think they're entitled to not having to learn a matchup or even pick a character that does better than their main against Meta Knight lmao. Maybe a Meta Knight ban would've made sense in early Brawl, but 3 years in you're just punishing the players that decided to play him for whatever reason.

@hg06syndicate14

3 жыл бұрын

@@FranzoOnLine I agree it was kinda late, but year 1 would have probably been to early, and at least it wasn't year 4. Plus with a new game coming out everyone was expecting to be better...all I'm saying is it could have been worse😅

Although MK was banned in Brawl at points, I have heard that MK was a fun top tier character to play as. It was just very difficult to fight him because of unparalleled frame data. He would survive very long because of momentum canceling, a technique that canceled hitstun in the air when you used an aerial. MK had a two frame up air, which let him instantly cancel knockback. I would also like to mention that Fox and Falco, despite not being as controversial as MK, are also very fun top tiers to play as. As someone who has been a Melee main for 4 years, I LOVE playing the space animals in friendlies/casuals. They are much more fair top tiers however, as they are lightweight fastfallers which means they die earlier and are easier to combo. They are glass cannons but are what I would say are good examples of top tiers. High skill barrier, low survivability, fun to play, but have some of the best tools and are not as polarizing compared to the rest of the cast.

@finalsmash9607

4 жыл бұрын

Zach Levin bro you got me confused mk stands for mortal kombat

@gypsysprite4824

4 жыл бұрын

and OG smash pikachu is probably the fairest character at the top of any tier list.. Pika literally has 2 matchups which could end up becoming 6-4 in not pika's faovr (Yoshi and Falcon)

@yuhboimarcyuh5582

4 жыл бұрын

@@finalsmash9607 Yeah I'm like ??

@kristopherstrickland5960

4 жыл бұрын

Alim Koutm meta knight

@nicholas3141

4 жыл бұрын

Who would win melee fox brawl meta knight or smash4 bayonetta

Now an interesting topic might be the intersection between banning characters in communities and the game devs nerfing things to rebalance the game. But I don't know how that would work - it just came to me

@Stumblebee

4 жыл бұрын

The Smash community and their ever-evolving rulesets are the poster child for that topic. #JusticeForPokefloats

@ThatGuy-me8wb

4 жыл бұрын

Some devs just can't be trusted not to totally botch balance.

@omnielement4922

4 жыл бұрын

Just talk about gt Goku in dbfz it covers exactly that

@joegillian314

4 жыл бұрын

@@Stumblebee If whatever is left of the Smash community actually want's a balanced game, then they should hack the game and re-balance it themselves.

@ZeUbermeinsch

4 жыл бұрын

Not sure what you mean with "whatever is left of the Smash community" but Brawl was hacked and rebalanced with a mod; Project M. One big reason people don't do it with Ultimate is that Nintendo is actually sponsoring tourneys now compared to back then where they barely gave a shit.

So basically you can't ban fighting game characters because the top players get butthurt lmao

@MoralesAlex805

4 жыл бұрын

*Tier whore players

@sp3ctre5ive8

4 жыл бұрын

MARINA AAA while I agree with you Bayo is different then meta knight. Meta had counter play. Bayo didn’t. And if she hit you with a combo starter you are dead, if you hit her with anything unsafe on sheild, you are dead. She had no disadvantage state etc. I could go on but Bayo was on a league of her own. Look at Salem. He hasn’t won shit in ultimate and isn’t even top 20 in Ultimate. But he has multiple major and super major tournament wins in Smash 4 because of Bayo even beating TSM ZeRo who was the fucking G of smash 4 multiple time. He was carried by Bayo. As were many other people in the smash community

@absol881

4 жыл бұрын

@@sp3ctre5ive8 just like what HBox said, you can't spell Salem without Esam handing him an L

@hhhhhh-vi6sq

4 жыл бұрын

@@sp3ctre5ive8 meta had counterplay, yeah. going meta knight against meta knight. meta knight overcentralized the meta too much, and he was simply too good. you know its broken when the most viable strategy against it is fighting fire with fire

@sp3ctre5ive8

4 жыл бұрын

hhh hhh MK was the best by far but Icies, Pika, diddy, and snake could stand up to him. Bayo in the other hand was in a League of her own. With her slightly beating cloud or going even. and having winning matchups everywhere else. Salem could beat zero when zero was in his prime. But after the Bayo nerfs Salem couldn’t replicate his success. And he is not the only person who was incredibly elevated due to her how unfairly broken she was. When’s that last time Captain Zach has been to a majors grand finals? Even MKleo and tweek were using her dropping their old mains to main Bayo. Now I fully agree with you when you say that Meta Knight was busted because he was. But Bayo and meta knight were busted for different reasons. Bayo could just zero to death you God know how many ways to the point that it didn’t matter how good you are, if the Bayo player gets a good read, you are fucked. Meta Knight was busted because he had absurd frame data in a very slow game he pretty much had no lad on so many moves. And no disadvantage state. So if two MKs got matched up against each other the better player will win because as busted as he was, he didn’t have any zero to death if you ignore chain grabs. But it is very clear that if two Bayos played player skill was not nearly as important as just landing a witch time or getting a frame 4 OOS witch twist to zero to death your opponent.

People who are afraid of meta-improving bans because they'll lose their training need to grow a set. Although bans should rarely happen these days due to patching being a thing. I'd ban characters like Bayonetta anyway for ignoring fundamentals of the game more than just being overpowered.

13:15 Imagine thinking Oro is anything remotely close to low tier in 3rd Strike.

@HighQualityIce

4 жыл бұрын

@@lucasc_ Exactly! He's a very functionally similar character to Urien, except he's objectively better in some regards, and arguably better overall. The only reason why some people don't realize this is because not many good Oro players exist.

@ZachHenke

4 жыл бұрын

oreganoilet Oro’s unblockable loops don’t work against the twins. Doesn’t that make him worse against them than he is other characters?

@HighQualityIce

4 жыл бұрын

@@ZachHenke He doesn't have a winning matchup against either of them, but it's not for that reason, since he can still just pick Tengu Stones instead. Also, I'm pretty sure the unblockable loops do work against them if you use a certain variant of the loop (I couldn't tell you what it is though, I don't play Oro).

Just do what sailor moon did and make every character overpowered

@kosinparuchabutr4007

3 жыл бұрын

*Makes a fighting game with roster consisting of petshop, akuma, brawl meta knight, sm4sh bayonetta, tengu, M.U.G.E.N. ronald mcdonald, and every other broken character to ever exist*

@jissus3893

2 жыл бұрын

@@kosinparuchabutr4007 sounds amazing I love it

@bartolomeo7826

2 жыл бұрын

If everyone is broken... No one will be

The reason hero got banned was a language one where if you didn't speak the language you couldn't tell which down-B was coming. In Europe there are a lot of languages spoken by a lot of people so that was the reason.

@natman2939

2 жыл бұрын

That’s dumb because even though I don’t speak Japanese I can still pick up certain words if I hear then enough So all they need to do is recognize the sounds

@screamingcactus1753

Жыл бұрын

@@natman2939 It's not just one language though, Europe has over a dozen different languages all within relatively close proximity of each other. It's one thing if you only need to learn ten or twenty different sound queues, but having to memorize over a hundred different sound queues for a single matchup is just too much

My god that guy planning to live of playing a single character of a game instead of his BA, what he was thinking of? The game (and or the character for that case) would stay relevant for ever or until retirement date? Delusional much?

@morrasod1858

3 жыл бұрын

He did though lol. That’s mew2king, he lives off smash content rn

@ctrlaltdeleteful

3 жыл бұрын

@@morrasod1858 Yeah but he's mainly known for his melee play, where meta knight isn't even a character, so either way he was completely wrong about staking his livelihood on meta-knight.

@ctrlaltdeleteful

3 жыл бұрын

@shitcanget AKA yikes! Yeah that's fair, maybe I should've been more clear about what I meant. I mean that specifically the rhetoric of "if you ban this character, I can't make a living off this game and all my work was for nothing." Seems a little sus considering the character didn't even exist in one of the games he played. He totally staked his livelihood on winning consistently (which is its own can of worms, should the community be responsible for M2K's cost of living?) but the idea that a MK ban completely invalidated that work and suddenly made his dream impossible definitely deserves criticism.

“Just learn the match up” “Punish laggy moves” “There’re not broken you’re just bad” - smash 4 bayoneta and Brawl meta knight mains

@tlkfanrwbyfan8716

3 жыл бұрын

MK could get like six up airs in one SHORT HOP in brawl. Guess I just needed to get better.

@gingerqueer22

2 жыл бұрын

@@tlkfanrwbyfan8716 Three, but your point still stands

@trashheroes9252

2 жыл бұрын

why is brawl meta knight and laggy moves in the same paragraph

@N12015

Жыл бұрын

@@gingerqueer22 The only one up until the block man got released. And people also want him banned but japan as always refuses to ban OP stuff.

You're doing a great job at quickly becoming one of my favorite KZreadrs

Shoutout to this dude for showing our tier list for Def Jam: FFNY! We’re trying to build up the community now and have people compete!

@tizzytheprophet8231

4 жыл бұрын

I saw that and got hyped. Lol. It's always cool to see any reference to it, especially when it's not about shitting on Icon. Haha.

@tizzytheprophet8231

4 жыл бұрын

Oh didn't read correctly, you also made the tier list. Dope!

@alexfield3950

4 жыл бұрын

All the best with that,Defjam:ffny is a fantastic game and would make a great Platte cleanser for some people in the fgc

@bobhihih

4 жыл бұрын

Wish I could get my hands on an Xbox/ps2 and a copy of ffny.

@MoldMonkey93

4 жыл бұрын

I didn't know that was considered a fighting game.

You're kinda missing a detail about the whole MetaKnight thing 75% of tourney participants want him banned. It's not like tourney participants voted MetaKnight back. They very much did not... but the BIG NAMES refused to participate in MetaKnight free tourneys. 2 things about that. 1. They are Big Names BECAUSE they use MetaKnight... and MetaKnight at the time was responsible for over half the total prizes in major tourneys... so the Big Names didn't want to compete because they would not only miss out on the prizes... but their dominant stature would surely diminish also. 2. Turnouts are naturally lower for tournaments with no big names in them. Therefore... the prizes were also smaller. So if any NON-MetaKnight wanted to make a living in Smash, they would have to compete with Meta-Knights. So in short... the only reason MetaKnight is currently tournament legal... is because MetaKnight players bullied everyone from the participants to the audience to the organizers.

@TX_LoveGame

3 жыл бұрын

So basically they were carried by MK lol. No wonder Brawl's comp scene was nearly DOA

Ngl when you brought up SCIV I was expecting you to talk about Yoda.

@Pan_Z

4 жыл бұрын

Yoda sucked. He was exclusive to the Xbox though, leading to a ban. Same with Vader

@nsbathome

4 жыл бұрын

Pan Z Weren't they DLC for the opposite version?

@Pan_Z

4 жыл бұрын

@@nsbathome Eventually Vader and Yoda were released for the opposite game console as DLC. They were exclusive for at least a year, I believe.

@blueknight8657

4 жыл бұрын

I remember playing that game. Only Soul Caliber I played but I remember Yoda being annoying cause he was hard to grab, small, and annoying. was fun

@mikejonesnoreally

4 жыл бұрын

Yoda didn't suck! He auto-evaded 50% of the games mechanisms. Meaning he beat 50% of you while *at rest.* That's just Yoda, man. :3

Captainzack I feel so confident with an over powered character, and now he's getting people to help him cheat in tournaments lol

“Nobody wants to practice for hundreds of hours just for their pick to get banned” Yeah sorry but if you spent all that time in the lab with an op character and are okay with them being busted, then you’re part of the problem

8:25 basically they were afraid getting their asses kicked because they can only play 1 broken overpowered character lol

@UnPokemon

4 жыл бұрын

Mew2king could kick ass with any character but this would be even harsher on him when you know how he approaches Smash. Also the ban came like 3 YEARS after the game release, which is crazy when you consider pros train with and against some characters almsot every day.

@isiahduran2041

4 жыл бұрын

Imagine playing a top tier character and thinking you worked "hard" to get good, like that's actually a retarded statement

@nightwave6963

4 жыл бұрын

@@isiahduran2041 Imagine everyone at top level competition uses top tiers and you still see the same people everytime at the top because they are actually better, cope!

@chestbumphero

4 жыл бұрын

Isiah Duran wait a minute, isn’t that how most NRS games come out in the end? Whether it’s because oversight or something related to community, the top characters in NRS games usually had some of the most busted things that against most of the cast was unbearable while for for some characters they were so bad they were useless

@HeirofDacia

4 жыл бұрын

@@isiahduran2041 Go win a tournament with a top tier without hard work, I'll wait.

The thing about the "equally skilled players" argument is that most players exceed in a certain aspect and struggle in others. You could have a player who has inconsistent execution skills but have incredible reads, and another player with solid neutral but undeveloped punish game. If they were truly equal, they would be tied and there would be no future growth between players. I think a better way to determine if players are equally skilled is how consistent their tournament placements are. If we are not factoring this in however, then it would be easier to imagine these players regularly trade sets.

@joegillian314

4 жыл бұрын

You can't even make a meaningful comparison between the characters if you don't assume the players are of equal skill.

@somethingsomething9006

4 жыл бұрын

The problem is that if we use the "x is better at this, but not as good at other things as y is" argument is that it makes it almost impossible to truly measure characters against each others for match ups and tier placements, which matter. That logic can dismiss and 'bad' matchup because someone just might be better at something that can counter that character, but the person playing the character that is being countered just isn't as good, so they will naturally lose. It becomes a comparison of individual players and not characters.

@arachnofiend2859

4 жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure "equally skilled" in this context is supposed to mean "both players are about as good as each other at their respective characters". If the best possible Chun player was matched against the best possible Q player, who would win? That's the question the match up ratios are asking.

@joshuaperkins9344

4 жыл бұрын

It’s just a figure of speech. It’s essentially saying ‘Remove the human element’ and judge the characters only based on the characters themselves.

Luckily this is not as much of an issue these days. If you make enough noise about a character being broken, They will usually end up getting nerfed. Or at the very least, should.

@kai_824

4 жыл бұрын

Except with Hero being banned by many already despite not being that great

@actuallybrady

4 жыл бұрын

@@kai_824 yeah.. the hero ban isn't really because he's good, he's probably solidly mid tier, but he is really really rng based and has a language barrier

@EonTheAien

4 жыл бұрын

@@actuallybrady I never bought hero so I apologise for my lack of knowledge, but what is the language barrier? And why would Square even do that?? I know they're stingy, but really???

@kai_824

4 жыл бұрын

@@actuallybradyLanguage barriers are to be expected. If you're coming to another country you should at least know how to speak or read the language. The only thing I can say it ban worthy is the random crit but even then that's around the same odds at G&Ws 9 hammer. He is mid tier at least yes but many other things about him arent that bad

@actuallybrady

4 жыл бұрын

@@EonTheAien his spells have no symbols, so you have to read them, and if you are facing say a Japanese player you'd have no idea what spells he has so you can't come up with an effective counter to them

"You cannot just ban fighting game characters". Capcom: "Hold my Seth".

@absol881

4 жыл бұрын

Bandai Namco: You can nerf them, right Leroy? Post-patch Leroy:... yeah

@Sydney_Angelyt

3 жыл бұрын

Sonic is just bullied in Smash tournaments

@kosinparuchabutr4007

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sydney_Angelyt sonic is literal cancer. I'm sorry, but he is

@jissus3893

2 жыл бұрын

Petshop

That Hilde match about 10 minutes in proved how outclassed the dude who had figured out the Doom combo was in an actual fight when he failed his combo

The good news is that in our new FGC era, developers notice when a character is too OP for the general public so they nerf them like it happened with Cell in DBFZ. Patches are by no means perfect, but they are now an option that will prevent us from having future MetaKnights from creating long term drama.

@hoodedman6579

4 жыл бұрын

Then how did Bayonetta cause issues for so long?

@edfreak9001

4 жыл бұрын

@@hoodedman6579 DLC characters in Smash seem to almost be intentionally overtuned in some aspect, even if it's not in ways that always make them OP in tournaments, that combined with the basic design of Bayonetta naturally making her full of high damage ez bake combos combined to make a monster. Also don't forget that Bayonetta was even worse on release, that last EVO Grand Finals was with post-patch nerfed bayonetta.

@SuperGamerxl

4 жыл бұрын

I think banning characters now a days just seems ridicules and an overreaction. Meta knight wasn't even op.

@Pandaman64

4 жыл бұрын

@@SuperGamerxl In what universe was Meta knight not OP? Curious.

@sniff494

4 жыл бұрын

@@SuperGamerxl >ridicules >Fine with meta knight Everything checks out here

People often complain about the luck element of Hero, but this isn't a very good argument because now we'd need to ask whether or not that rule should to Peach/Daisy or G&W for their random down specials and I'm pretty sure most of those same people would not want to ban either. What is ban worthy with Hero is the language barrier that comes from his menu. Unless the devs patch in visual icons that can be universally understood, Hero should not be legal in any tournaments, local or international.

@harrylane4

Жыл бұрын

Lmao no.

@natman2939

Жыл бұрын

@@harrylane4 but apparently yes

I say make a rule about the "strongest" characters can only be used 1 time in a match of 3 or more. This way players can still play the character but only once, which also create strategy to who you pick when.

@TheTrueBrawler

2 жыл бұрын

As well intentioned as you may have been with this suggestion, I feel like what you're proposing is a worst of both worlds situation. Take Meta Knight, for example. The top players who've dumped hundreds to thousands of hours into Meta Knight and want to continue playing him will near inevitably get pissed off and protest such a ruleset (we saw what happened when people tried to place outright ban on him into the global ruleset). On the other hand, the players who are usually in the peanut gallery during finals who wants Meta Knight banned are still going to complain about that one match where the top player using Meta Knight had an unfair advantage and wouldn't have otherwise won it. Something like this would never work.

One thing I think you should have mentioned is DLC characters being temporarily banned until they can be used in tournament. NRS does this all the time, banning characters they just released from tournament for a month until, presumably, enough lab time was put in to find pros and cons and work out how strong they are. A smart play, but I wonder if a month is too long.

Watching stuff like this makes me happy I don’t play competitively

@CCuppy29

3 жыл бұрын

That’s really not what you should’ve taken away from this video

13:20 Oro isn't low tier tho.

@cyriszx

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly a silent Top Tier .

@SadBirbHours

4 жыл бұрын

Oros pretty mid tier. He's that character that pops up every now and again at high levels but he's no Ken/Yun/chun

@Neogears1312

4 жыл бұрын

Christopher Kendall having a godly unblockable doesn’t mean much when you don’t have a forward throw and suck at building meter that’s required for said unblockable.

@lorry3535

4 жыл бұрын

yeah that confused me too haha probably should sub him with twelve

@Kilesfactor

4 жыл бұрын

Crude Carl ... just hk. No really, he has Adon ‘s HK but it’s one hit lol

In my opinion, the only warranted ban in fighting games was meta Knight (ice climbers too I guess but nowhere near as much) in brawl. This is based entirely due to the fact that the tier list for brawl is based almost ENTIRELY off of the character's match-up against meta Knight. I think a ban is a little fair

This is all well and good but, the miis were successfully banned in smash 4, While they are a "special" case (not really) The smash community will ban what they dont like

@NightClubSamurai

4 жыл бұрын

yup, the smash community refuses to adapt to anything new

@SteveGuy86

4 жыл бұрын

We never actually banned the Miis themselves as far as I'm aware, they were limited for the same reason custom moves were banned; in other words, it was unbelievably tedious to set up a custom fighter with different movesets for every setup, every time someone wanted to use custom moves in the first place and then change them again every time they wanted to switch even one special, and then adapt to a possibility of 81 different movesets *per character*, and the entire project that tried to legalize custom moves ended up shitting itself. It was too much, too long and too annoying and nobody could agree with one ruleset, so big tourneys like CEO and EVO just decided to can the whole custom thing The Miis themselves were kept legal at every tourney but they were limited to their 1111 movesets in most tourneys after getting lumped in with the custom moves ban, so they remained at low tier for pretty much the entire lifespan of Smash 4

@meathir4921

3 жыл бұрын

@@NightClubSamurai This is just not true....

@meathir4921

3 жыл бұрын

The Miis weren’t banned...

@meathir4921

3 жыл бұрын

@@SteveGuy86 It was also the fact that some custom moves were terribly unbalanced.

The latest addition I can think of: Fahkumram from Tekken 7. Before that, we had Leroy, who was way too strong on release without any need of having good mechanics. The first big tournament that he was available, 6 of the top 8 were using Leroy, one of them had just looked him up for around two hours before the tournament. Then he got nerfed over time and all was... okayish. He still was strong, much so, but a ban wasn't needed. Then they release Fahkumram. He also has balance issues - tiny amount of execution needed for super damaging combos. Oppressive strings and mixups. Advantage in almost any situation. And worst of all, hitbox issues. The dude is built in a way that makes it hard for him to go through any door because he is so tall and wide, yet his hitbox is tiny, meaning that many usually guaranteed follow ups that should hit his head or usually reliable combos just whiff. And his left leg has a hurt- but no hitbox, letting many lows that don't reach all the way back to the right leg just whiff as well. And somehow, he was pushed back more by moves than other characters, which again meant certain follow ups weren't reliable or usable, but meant little to him, as he still has massive reach. Surely Bamco would adress this monstrosity soon, right? Then Corona hit. And any form of toning Fahk down was stalled. The entire community of Pakistan banned him from tournaments themself. He was a broken mess entirely, which meant that if you picked him, you had not only the advantage of a strong moveset, but also the advantage of a rushed out hitbox. Since then, his hitboxes have been adjusted a bit. And I think one or two patches went out almost only to nerf him. And still he is too strong - but at least, as far as I know, he isn't banned anymore...

New rule: all meta knight players must be very, very drunk

@harpot678

3 жыл бұрын

Its not that, its just that youve been grinding that one character for so long, you get really attached. If they didnt spend so much time on their to be banned character, they wouldnt have fussed as much.

@BillyBob-xx5jr

3 жыл бұрын

@@harpot678 I feel like most people get where they're coming from. Spending months to a year studying and practicing with a singular character, then being told that time was wasted because people didn't want to play that character so you aren't has got to absolutely suck, so most top players said they'd just leave if Meta Knight was banned, but without top players, people won't show up and thus tournaments don't have the money to make rewards.

@kosinparuchabutr4007

3 жыл бұрын

on top of that, meta knight players must be amputated and blindfolded before picking him in tournaments

@supremechaosbeing2696

3 жыл бұрын

spin them around with their head on the pinata whacking bat

@supremechaosbeing2696

3 жыл бұрын

sideways wiimote

Darth Vader, Yoda, The Apprentice, and SW stages were also banned of SC4 tournaments, but it was for copyright reasons.

Great video! I had not considered how complicated the decision would be.

“I hope I helped you understand why” For what I understood, the reason is that crybaby players that nobody likes always use them to be overpowered, and throw tantrums if their overpowered character gets banned.

0:13-1:45 Pet shop: still broken two (kinda shit) games later. At least he has a great theme so nice choice.

Nice vid. Non fighters also had characters soft banned amongst friends like T.T. in Diddy Kong Racing and Wolf in Star Fox Assault.

Another thing about Chun and Yun are the supers they choose. Not so much for Chun, but if Yun doesn’t choose Super Art 3, he actually becomes below Yang Tier or B-

Sirlin's rules for banning -- and they're good rules -- is that the ban must be three things: warranted, discrete, and enforceable. e.g., Banning Akuma in Super Turbo meets those rules, but banning, say, infinite combos does not.

@meathir4921

3 жыл бұрын

Smash community has done fine banning many infinites.

Reminds me of the guy who wanted to run skull girls in the Esports club at school. The only problem I had with it is that some characters aren't school appropriate and simply banning them won't be enough because someone won't know the rule. The characters either have to be made appropriate or outright deleted, which we can't change.

@Stumblebee You and Core-A should do a panel about this. Good stuff !

I always imagine top tier players don't seek any challenge in life. If there is the slightest problem or inconvenience to them, they give up and never do it again

Slightly surprised to see no talk on Kokonoe. As I understand it, she was basically days away from a ban and pretty much everyone I've talked to with more knowledge than me has unanimously agreed she should have been banned.

@Wudamonkey

4 жыл бұрын

Some places did ban Kokonoe the biggest ones were Southern California and Chicago area but Kokonoe got patched2 months after the charter came out. Also note god mode Kokonoe never made it to the arcade version of Blazblue only the patched version.

I would've liked you to talk about IGAU's Zod, who was banned almost immediately upon release for a game winning glitch.

@caldw615

4 жыл бұрын

Extreme Glitches are understandable though. If a character can straight up make themselves invulnerable at all times then you either ban deliberately triggering the glitch OR you ban the character if it's something the player cannot reasonably control.

@michaelbesser5348

4 жыл бұрын

Iirc, on initial release, Cyborg could infinitely spam projectiles and keep you in hitstun forever, like wobbling at long range.

Very interesting and well made video. Thanks for the time and effort wich went into this. =)

This is just another reason why I think more fighting games should employ multiple characters, like MVC does. While it doesn't completely eliminate the possibility of a specific combo of characters getting banned, it adds enough innate variety into a player's selection to make it more possible to strategize your way around the obstacles that could arise from a top-tier selection, thus greatly reducing the need for bans in the first place.

@marscaleb

11 ай бұрын

@@kingofthezinger9777 Honestly I don't see how a team of boss characters is really going to make a difference. What you describe still comes down to you favoring a particular style. That would mean a team that counters that style would have an advantage. Yes it could still come out horribly unfair, but that really just comes down to a game being properly balanced to begin with. The way I see it, a fighter designed around teams could balance itself with particular weaknesses for each character, which would open up something like a rock-paper-scissors game but with more tools. If you build a team that is all rock, then a balanced team will wipe the floor with you because your team will be just about spent by the time you take down their one paper guy, and then the rock vs rock fight won't be balanced because the balanced team has a fighter at full health. In the end, it still comes down to how well-balanced the devs make the game. But I think it will be harder to accidentally make an unstoppable team than an OP character. But hey, I'm not good at fighting games, so maybe I'm just full of crap.

Ivan Ooze, Petshop, Omega Tom Hanks, sanford kelly, Hilde. This guy knows his memes and knows the history lol. Great video

@breadgatoo

4 жыл бұрын

Petshop too op

@UltimaKeyMaster

4 жыл бұрын

My question is who the hell was throwing a tournament for MMPR Fighting Edition and where can I find them?

@adamadkins3211

4 жыл бұрын

literally none of those are "memes"

@jelaninoel

4 жыл бұрын

Adam Adkins sanford kelly “pick a top tier” certainly is

Honestly I feel like you left out a significant part of the conversation. You had Hero in the thumbnail and vaguely mentioned him, but never went into why people wanted him banned. It wasn't because he was overpowered, because he isn't. It's because his heavily RNG based moveset makes the game less competitive and less fun for a lot of people taking the game seriously. I think it would have been really interesting to talk about how characters can be banned not just for being too good, but making the game less fun or fair

@Taktaagic

3 жыл бұрын

As much as I love Hero (he was my most wanted character) I do see why people dislike him. I mained him for a long time, but I dropped him when I realised that his awful frame data wasn’t fit for a game like Ultimate, as well as the fact that it was just his Special Moves that made him a good character. Obviously, I still love Hero, but I would honestly love to see a patch where they nerf his spells a bit, but buff the speed of his normals.

Brooo you deserve more subs . Your Channel is awesome. Keep going !👍👍👍

I only use low tier characters so that my opponent has low expectations of me

@king-le2vz

4 жыл бұрын

Same, in Street Fighter Third Strike I use 12. It's also great for earning attention so people can know who you are. Another benefit is showing your skill and handicapping yourself to improve even more.

@blaacksugar7714

4 жыл бұрын

I do so in order to see how my opponent would complain if they lose. Dr Mario isn't exactly a broken character.

0:22 nice look man, haha

@Stumblebee

4 жыл бұрын

I'd pass that compliment onto my buddy, Hunter, but he's too busy arguing that zoning is a scrubby tactic.

@Kilesfactor

4 жыл бұрын

Stumblebee I’m sorry for your loss of time going down that rabbit hole.

stumblebee: ivan ooze is the best fighting game character GOLDEN ronald mcdonald in rivals: am i a joke to you

@charliewaffle4928

4 жыл бұрын

Get a gf bro

@ShibuNub3305

3 жыл бұрын

Technically, Ronald and all his forms are from M.U.G.E.N.

Very well-researched video, especially with the old fighter games.

You know what would be a cool idea, this is probably already a thing and I'm just being stupid, but what about a tournament where your never allowed to play as the same character twice. That way, worse players can get an advantage in the first round by playing an op character and top contenders have to save op characters till near the end. There would be a whole layer of strategy looking into what characters are and aren't available to your next opponent, and if you want a chance at winning, you have to get good at a variety of characters. Maybe there's a character with one hard counter, but if your opponent has already used that counter you can play as the character freely. Undeniably op characters would become an interesting part of the meta game, rather than simply forcing every player to play as them to stay competitive. IDK, i don't know much about competitive fighting games so like i said, this is probably either already a thing or wouldn't work.

I didnt know JmCrofts is a dirty Ivan Ooze player.

Another great video. Now that I think about it is hard to belive that a game so big like Smash Ultimate doesn't more characters that have pontial to be banned. Really shows how much Nintendo care about everything

@notatroll5595

4 жыл бұрын

At least to your perspective

good topic, good info, really didn't like the amount of repetition. Some script revisions, or if that's the case, branching content to reach time minimums would help a lot

This is a really well done video!

The meta knight smash people surprise me. You would think that they’d want the game they spend hundreds of hours on to be more diverse and interesting, but they instead just want to play mirror matches all day.

@CasperDar

4 жыл бұрын

Bad players that want to cheese their way to the top and aren't interested in a fair match, Smash is full of them. If you want proof, look up Wobbling for Melee and tell me the community isn't filled with toxic assholes.

@123christianac

4 жыл бұрын

@@CasperDar It got banned because there is no counter play. "Don't get grabbed," or "Kill them before they can do it," is not valid counter play. It is similar to the Hilde situation in Soul Calibur IV. The top percent of players probably wouldn't be affected. However, everyone else is. She got banned eventually.

@N12015

Жыл бұрын

Tbf, it wasn't. Brawl is broken and if it's not Meta Knight is Icies, and if not Icies... well, there you get a select group of 6 top tiers in Olimar, Falco, Diddy Kong, DDD, Snake and Marth, with the occasional Pikachu, ZSS, Toon Link, Lucario and Wario.

Or you could just play Guilty Gear and laugh in Johnny.

@SireForseti

4 жыл бұрын

Misto Fina !

@CesarTorres61296

3 жыл бұрын

*Laughs in Faust*

Excellent vídeo dude!

I can see some character's getting Banned from Pro Tournament's it seemed like everyone was trying to get that combo from Hilde off as a means for an easy Victory But an Innocent Character could also potentially get Banned for that player being too good with him.

@absol881

4 жыл бұрын

That's the instance where the player, instead of the character is feared.

I only got thing to say. More buffs less nerfs.

@skyyswaggstudios2934

4 жыл бұрын

Preach it 👐

@rivaraptor4277

4 жыл бұрын

Naiji basically MVC3

@TheDemonChara

4 жыл бұрын

Most people I think will agree with that

@brolo7234

4 жыл бұрын

@@rivaraptor4277 UMVC3 needed some nerfs though, mainly to the core mechanics. Introduce a stale factor to counter some of the brain dead infinites like Skullgirls did and UMVC3 would have been god tier. Maybe decrease the size of Morgan's soulfist too. That way players would have to be more precise with the projectile spam instead of just being able to cover the entire screen with only 2 lines of soulfists.

@rayminishi689

4 жыл бұрын

So 99+ buffs over 1 nerf to a character that's OP? That idea runs wild with devs.

2019 Oro is actually pretty broke, he's upper mid

@perturbedxtirade7428

4 жыл бұрын

Underrated comment

@Evolutionofhell

4 жыл бұрын

ORO UNLBOCKABLES!!! As a Dudley player, i know this statment to be true.

@RandalfElVikingo

4 жыл бұрын

I knew Oro was OP the moment I tried to parry his Super lol.

You just know Google sees everything you do when you click two tweets about an Upgraded Jacqui ban and now this video gets recommended.

Thank you for sharing this video

Remember when Justin Wong got Sentinel hard nerfed in MvC3?

@latrodectusmactans7592

4 жыл бұрын

And then Ultimate Sentinel won an evo anyway. While I think the health nerf was unwarranted, it ultimately didn’t stop Sentinel from being a fun and viable character.

Ah yes my favorite marvel v capcom character, Tom Hanks

this was a very interesting video. subbed

UI Goku and Lv7 Gogeta be like : Bonjour

I see my boy Yun in a thumbnail of a video about banning characters, I click the video

@wilykat

4 жыл бұрын

joaquin trujillo No doubt. The Yunster and me go way back since his inception from Street Fighter:The Next Generation. Dude was always a solid player and combo machine.

3:34 laughs in MUGEN

The Hero has a self-destruct ability that you could accidentally use if not paying attention that could take the place of a down b you want. That mixed with a limited mana pool actually balances him fairly well.

@Smenchevieve

Жыл бұрын

Limited mana pool is fair, but you can't say whether or not a character is balanced by bringing up mistakes you can make by not playing optimally

@TheTrueBrawler

Жыл бұрын

@@Smenchevieve Sure, you can't say that accidentally choosing a bad spell like Kamikazee is a fair consideration when discussing character balance, but what does a player do other than cancel the menu if they open up Command Selection and the four options that appear on screen are Kamikazee, Hatchet Man, Kaclang, and Metal Slash? All of these "nothing spells" take potential options away from Hero every time one of them pops up in the menu, and these along with the similarly bad situational spells such as Kacrackle Slash, Magic Burst, Zoom (on stage only), or Hocus Pocus-statistically speaking-will pop up quite frequently throughout a match. That is definitely a fair consideration.

@Smenchevieve

Жыл бұрын

@@TheTrueBrawler Yep I would say these things make him harder to play but still affect a player at a competitive level very little. You could say that it reduces the viability of spamming spells but that's viability is questionable either way

5:39 Glad to see Snoop dogg in god tier of a fighting game

we need to ban Oddjob for the sake of competitive GoldenEye.

@dereklewis4321

4 жыл бұрын

I actually had some buddies over for some casual N64 action. We play goldeneye and my homie instantly goes to OddJob. Not gonna lie after that I viewed him differently. He wanted to beat us so bad in multiplayer he was willing to play cancer, and knew it was cancer.

@hostiusasinhostilityhostil7853

4 жыл бұрын

ngl helicopter pilot needs to go No seriously, he has a much faster running speed than most other characters. He's still ma boi though.

@Mekora

4 жыл бұрын

There's a pub near where I live that has done Goldeneye tournaments. Naturally Oddjob is banned. Since 90's FPS games usually rely on entirely equal stats for all characters, banning that one character is less of a concern.

I completely understand about losing a lot of time one spent practicing, but at the same time, any change to a character can bring about this same thing. I once spent 40 hours practicing a setup with ice climbers that was removed due to a patch that happened a few days later. It's unfortunate, but it happens, I personally don't think sunk cost is a valid enough reason on it's own to justify not banning certain characters that are completely dominating the game. At the moment, A fine example is Hero... with a ~ 20% chance to 1shot certain lightweights from 0%, and that's not including the other massive spells he can have that are functionally undodgeable and can generally guarantee him kills from well below 30% on many characters. I'm not saying i'm a smash expert by any length, but if everyone I know has started picking up hero just because of that 20% chance to auto win with rng... that definitely strikes me as a potential issue.

Perhaps a controversial question but in this era of games being easily patched and updated what’s the community’s stance of that? Like should a game be basically kept in the version it is on the day of it’s release or if exploits can be nurffed should they? I’ve seen so many game metas completely shift with patches and in cases like Overwatch character’s abilities completely changed so I’m very curious what the answer would be here

I remember playing UMVC3 and the most picked characters were [and when i played] Wolverine superscroll and wesker.

I about lost my shit when I saw the broken Tom hanks mugen character.

Did you notice that he was playing with a Roku remote

matchups. Kind of makes me miss round robin tournaments with the top players playing their best character

Kind of forgot to mention how people almost tried to ban Cloud(Smash4) in doubles and such because of how good he was, then it was quickly taken back. In Smash Ultimate some discussion happened about banning Pichu or Peach, and even King K. Rool. This however was just because the community didn't know how to deal with matchups against these characters, because of the game being so new. In Smash Melee some wanted to ban Fox but that almost had the same story as the nearly banned characters in Ulitmate, some just were upset about dealing with Fox because of him being good. That changed though. Sometimes the banning of a character is just a lot of people complaining about a top tier, while other times it's a plain problem, I like that about this video. But one thing missed was the spectators and just the community as well, because I remember that Smash 4 would get much less viewers than normal due to Bayonetta dominating tournaments. Discussion about banning some characters in Smash 4, pre-patched, happened as well. Pre-patch Diddy Kong is one example.